Write first, Edit later w/ Gregor

Today on Cereal Music Talks, I’m joined by Gregor - a Bosnian-Australian multi-instrumentalist and songwriter who’s been writing and producing music since 2010. His work spans a wide range of achievements: from Cillian Murphy playing his track on BBC radio, to sold-out shows across Melbourne, and nominations for Best Album and Best Solo Artist at the Music Victoria Awards. Despite arriving at his beautiful St Kilda East home studio with a long list of prepared questions, the conversation takes on a life of its own. We dive into songwriting, the relationship between language and perception, and of course, the question I ask all my guests: how’s the hustle going?

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Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Staima Gregore. Okay, we have to talk in English. I just realized. Oh my goodness. I immediately, I don't know, I switched to Bosnian creation. Yes. I guess. Hey, this is Lutya K Jiva, creator and host of Serial Music Talks podcast. Each month I sit down with musicians, music producers, and sound designers based in Melbourne to talk about the real challenges we face in the industry, whether it's breaking into new markets, battling imposter syndrome, overcoming writers' blocks, or just navigating the cruel world of social media. I approach these conversations as an artist myself, and like most of us, I'm also just trying to figure it all out on the go. A new episode drops every last Tuesday of the month. So if you want to stay connected, you can subscribe to my newsletter via Substack. Just find the link somewhere below, above. I'm assuming that you speak um that's your like mother language in the sense that you speak that at home with your family.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Correct, yeah. Okay. I learned from my parents at home.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

And I guess I mean there are lots of people like me who learn at home, but I notice different levels of proficiency. I guess it's a combination of my parents making a good effort to correct me, and maybe my natural ability to hear languages.

Growing Up Between Cultures

SPEAKER_00 1:24

As usual, let me first tell you where I am. Uh it's a cold but sunny Tuesday morning in Melbourne, and I'm sitting in a beautiful bedroom studio in St. Kilda East. I'm surrounded by keyboards, the guitars, and all kinds of instruments, and next to a window overlooking a bunch of trees. It's really nice. Um I'm sleeping on a percolator coffee, or I like to call it mocha, uh, made by my guest for this episode, multi-instrumentalist and songwriter Gregor Kompar, aka Gregor, a Bosnian-Australian musician. Uh, some of you might already know Gregor. Uh, he's been writing and producing music since 2010 and has quite a list of achievements, uh, from Killian Murphy playing his song on a BBC show, um, solo shows across Melbourne, and nominations for Best Album and Best Solo Artist at the Music Victoria Awards. Uh, but to be honest, as always, I had a huge list of questions prepared, but then we just let the conversation go wherever it needed to. And it took us deep into songwriting, what it means to honor inspiration, and of course, the question I ask all my guests: how's the hassle going? Did you ever um feel different in Australia? Do you think that there's part of you that's different because you are your boss then?

SPEAKER_03 2:46

I I remember when my parents would drop me at primary school, I would tell them to like be quiet because I didn't want people hearing a different language.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

How how how did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_03 2:56

I think I just didn't want to draw attention or I didn't want to have questions. Maybe I just wanted to not seem like we were different. I mean now I'm proud of it, but I'm just remembering as a child that it did make me feel different.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

And do you think it's uh also because you know your all your music is in English?

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Uh for now.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

For now, yeah. I was wondering, have you ever written anything in Cerberation or have you thought about it?

SPEAKER_03 3:27

I've thought about it. I've written small fragments, but I've never gone to the extent of recording a song. But uh I would. I would.

Yugoslav new wave, Dylan, Marley, beach tapes

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah, there's time. Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. Uh and what about influences? Now that we're on this topic, I'm just gonna squeeze everything. Because first time I've heard your music, and that was um shortly after we met. I because I really didn't know anything about you. And then we met at the tote, and then the next day, I think it was summer because I remember I listened to your music um at the beach. I was with my friend Jackie, and we, you know, I was like, let's let's see what this Gregory is doing, you know. I really don't have an idea. And then I immediately thought of Novi Val, it's like a new wave from Rieca. Uh also some of the recent bands, such as Swemirco. So there is like a synth wave, like an Italian, you know, like uh Italopop or whatever. Um but I did hear Hauster. I don't know if you know that band, but for the listeners, it's a very popular um 80s new wave band from Creator.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Right. It's funny that you listened at the beach because some of my formative music experiences were in the car on the way to the beach here, where my parents would play cassette tapes. And they ranged from former Yugoslaving music to uh Bob Marley and Bob Dylan and things that I or my dad would dub to tape for the purpose of listening to them in the car. But yeah, I was exposed to Gielo Dugme, Smark, Pryavo, Kazalista, others. You know, I forget the names, but I was exposed to that stuff. I just haven't of my own accord really investigated or explored.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

I was wondering if it's, you know, it's probably me being exposed to that music and growing up within that music, that that's what I hear first in your music. And now that you say that you haven't actually been listening to House, it's just it really when I heard it, it really sounded like a very intense influence of those bands, which I find. Uh yeah, I know you I've I sometimes do feel I wonder how much of it is something that yes, but of course you can sh you shape that throughout your life.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

I was like, wow, I might have heard somehow stood without knowing it. Yeah, do tend to be influenced by uh everything that I hear. It's not like um I don't focus on one sound or genre or something. Like everything that I hear does work its way in somehow.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Even good sharp and Bogmile and Bombdill and makes sense because I've I've you know I did a little bit of snooping. I I did my due diligence of like exploring. Uh and I read through some of the interviews, I listened to some of your interviews as well. And at one interview last year with uh Dylan Bird on AAA, you did say that you shazam a lot.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

I have to admit that I only started Shazamming maybe two months ago uh for the first time, I guess because that's also when I got the car. Yeah. And I feel like my whole life now has changed. And this, you know, when I was listening your interview and you were saying about, you know, you don't you you don't use public transport, you you drive and then you listen to music. It just all makes sense that you're exposed. You just listen and then whatever comes.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

Yeah, I I start with the the popular community stations, and if they're not really doing it for me, I unrip to the classical ones, or the jazz and classical, because they're they're more consistent, you know. And that's where I shazam a lot.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

I can actually hear that in your music because it's not you know, there's like a Gregor. Um there's a Gregor signature in every single album. I've gone through them all, and you know, it's been 15 years of music, mid-2010.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Does that sound scary when I say No, not at all. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Sometimes it's um uh it's defined differently, like some of there are four albums on a label, and if you read in certain sources it says fourth album. But then if you ask me, you know, there were releases before I was on a label.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

So yeah, you're more accurate saying 2010.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah, I I guess I was just looking at, you know, when you were, you know, active and like when when things started, yeah, uploading music, you know, like MySpace, I guess. Well, this is post MySpace, but you know what I mean. Bandcamp. Yeah, yeah, bandcamp. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Uh I mean it goes back before that, even to 2008 under different names and different styles, but it's kind of nice that that's separate and we don't have to bring it to the surface. That was more like um experimental hip hop bits and electronic music.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Okay. But you d really do not want to go there.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

I don't really not want to, but it's nice that it's not all in the same place.

15 Years of Making Music

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Uh yeah, of course. It's like a different uh do you think that, you know, when you I guess the first question is, do you ever listen to your music?

SPEAKER_03 8:42

To my own music? Yes. Well while I'm making it as in not not while I'm sitting down and recording it, but I mean outside of that, if I'm on my way somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

I will revise it, you know, export what what I've done so far and listen to it in the car to give me ideas separate to doing the activity. You know, like listening to it just for what it is and getting a sense of what else I could add to it or how so while you're making the song, oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

But after?

SPEAKER_03 9:12

After? Yes, once I've completed, I have the sense of satisfaction.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

And I listen to it m a few times, to maybe a lot of times, but then eventually I stop.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, okay. And um because I read uh or heard, I now forgot, it was wasn't that I was listening to. You you when you listen back to some of your songs, you you instead of like looking at the hearing the song, you perhaps uh which I understand, like you can see the period in which that song was made. Yep. Does that make you then I guess it's an uncomfortable, comfortable feeling or comfortable, uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Yeah, it's like uh maybe I see a naivety in the younger me that made the song that I don't relate with, so I can't really enjoy it to the same extent that someone who doesn't know what's going on inside me would upon hearing it. So yeah, I mean I think we all all of us artists with older work tend to sort of shy away from it and want to put it in the past. True. I mean, I don't know, that's my experience.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Uh it's my mine as well. I like sometimes I do have periods where I would um listen to my older stuff, um, especially what I've made with my band. But I I sort of want to get back into I wanna I wanna teleport into that era of my life because it is like a sort of is frozen in time in a sense, you know. And then I don't know if you can, but like I would listen to a song and vividly just you know recall the sounds, the smells, where I was, where it was recorded. And it was like it serves sort of like a teleportation machine, like a time machine.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Well, I have the a funny experience where when I listened, like the other day, I was packing to go overseas and putting things in storage, and up in the storage I found my iMac from when I was uh 13, like my first Mac computer, which I still works, and I I don't throw things these things out. Um so I pulled it out because I was curious about all of that stuff that I mentioned before, those hundreds of tracks from a different time. And uh it was nice to listen to them, and it's I realize how far I've come, but at the same time I'm a bit baffled, realizing that I'm still having the same problems.

Melancholy, Feelings + Writing From the Self

SPEAKER_00 11:49

And those are well the uh give me the specifics, you know, like give me one, one, one, or three.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Just focusing on feelings too much. It's always about how I'm feeling, instead of just moving on.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

But what what is wrong with that?

SPEAKER_03 12:05

There's nothing wrong with that. It's just I've noticed that it's a pattern and it's omnipresent.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Hmm, but maybe that's you know, that's what makes you, you know, wouldn't you like for my what I think about that is that you know that's what makes your music unique because you're literally expressing what you feel. Yeah, and yes, feelings are um uh universal, but the way you are experiencing them is your it's only Gregory. And that's literally the secret sauce to your music. That's true. Uh I don't know, like that's how I'm seeing it. My next question would be then, do you want to sing about some like global issues, like social issues? Is that what you you know would love to do if you could? You know what I mean? Like, what is the what's the alternative?

‘I’ vs ‘You’- The Craft of Perspective

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Just not so melancholy all the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Okay, I see what you mean. For me, it's like I I would love to avoid I, the word I sure in my like the first person.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

I mean you shouldn't do that, you just you say you, and then you're still talking about yourself. You feel like this, you go and do this, it's it's easy. I've I've done that a lot.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Are you? Yeah. Okay. Because when I listen to it, I guess that I guess this is the language thing. When I listen to your songs, and when you say you, I really do feel like you're talking to someone else rather than saying that I'm feeling that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Does that make sense? Yeah, well, it's a good trick because or not a trick, but mechanism, something because it's more relatable for the listener. You know, they listen to this song and they feel like you're talking to them. But how could I know what's going on for the listener? I'm just going off what I I know and what I'm feeling, but putting in a you so that we can all enjoy the song in the same way with the song speaking to us. It's not just listening to a diary entry of me and relating to it.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Okay. I I literally thought the other way around. I was always like, when if you say I, right? Then whoever is singing the song, whoever is like listening to it and and resonating with with those feelings, they can immediately use the I and say I feel like this and just like sing along.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

And sort of like advise them to sing.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Yeah, well, yeah, I guess say I themselves, but if you say you, they can just listen. But both are both are good. Yeah. Both are good. Both are as relatable as each other.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

But if we want variety, we can go between I and you, even in the same song. I made a song recently, actually, that has I, you, and he. Okay. And they're all about me.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Okay. And is the he, if I can ask, is the he a feeling or is it uh no, it's it's it's a person. Okay. Listen to those songs more attentively.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Actually, this song is I, you, he, and us. So it's only missing a few, what do you call them, tenses or persons?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Persons. Persons, yeah. Entities. Okay, I wasn't expecting uh to go this deep into the first person, like I don't know what they're called. Yeah, to grammar, English grammar.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

I really um the beauty of uh songwriting in poetry is you don't have to follow grammatical rules.

How a Song Is Born

SPEAKER_00 15:29

You can jump from case to person to past tense to when you think about you know the songwriting process, how much time and I guess um how much of the process is dedicated to music versus lyrics?

SPEAKER_03 15:46

I'd say something like 60 to 70 percent is dedicated to music, and less so lyrics. But let that being said, when I then apply the lyrics to the song and I'm singing them and recording them and trying them out, uh that's I don't know which category that fits into. Because it's it's a crossover.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Like in singing the melodies and stuff, I don't know if that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah, you mean like singing gibber? So I do you so I guess from what you're saying, uh, music comes first.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

I mean m more often than not, but sometimes there are things that were written months ago that that end up being on that song. So they came first technically, but they didn't know where they were going.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Yeah, I see what you mean.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

But mostly the music comes first, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

And then Do you ever like sing in g gibberish?

SPEAKER_03 16:36

Yeah, I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Oh, and do you ever just recently I wrote a song that for the first time in my life. I always sing in gibberish at first, always. And it's the open it's like literally English creation, right? Yeah. That's why I do end up having songs that are bilingual.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Um, but then this was the but you know, usually I always I either have some lyrics that I've written before, and then, you know, they had to wait for the right time, or sometimes I already feel like this is what I want to say, so I write them. But this was the first time that I was actually listening to gibberish and extracted words from the gibberish. Have you ever done that?

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yeah, sometimes you have no choice because the the gibberish sits so well. You try and write new words to fit in that they just they don't they don't have the same intonation. So instead you resort to like listening to the gibberish 10, 20 times and seeing what the closest word is and trying to make it make sense.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I I just done that for the first time. Uh and uh he was like, Whoa, what is this?

SPEAKER_03 17:44

It's written itself.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Yeah, it's written itself, but you know, like if we think about it, the the reality is that it did uh, you know, you were the one expressing it.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

You did, but in a very kind of in this in the moment way where you're triangle. Yeah, yeah. Like so you use some real words, but then in between you use some melodies and then you fill in the blanks.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

But it takes a long time doing it that way sometimes.

Time, Focus + The Need for Creative Immersion

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yeah. From you know, from the research, you know, you've done so much and you had a lot of success in your music. You know, like it's been 15 years of you actively, let's like, let's do it like that, like or publicly releasing music into the world, etc. Uh, but you know, one of the moments where Cillian Murphy's playing your song with the BBC 2020, like, whoa, I want to I want to hear how you felt, but let me just um also you know uh nomination uh from Music Victoria, like music awards, um I don't know, so many sold-out shows. I don't know, like your song has like almost two million uh listeners, uh well, streams. It's it seems like you know, you're very um established. And my first question is, is this something you do full-time?

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Uh in a sense, I do it full-time. As in it's not going anywhere. I always do it, but no, I do other things for money.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Always? Has it always been like that?

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Thus far, it's always been that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

But now when I enter your apartment, you were like, oh you know, I got sick of doing other things, I just want to do music.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Yeah, I I did, and I do, and I am.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Um how long has that feeling been going on?

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Maybe just the last year or something. I mean before that I just took it as a norm, you know, you don't make money for music, you you work a job, and then music's on the on the side. That's always the way I've kind of thought it was. But it's not that I've discovered that it doesn't have to be that way. It's that I've discovered that I just really just want to be making music. I don't want to be spending my energy getting up early and thinking, oh, in the evenings you do music, but actually that never happens. You go weeks without doing music if you're working full-time and it's tiring.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Um But the work that you've done, were they um they were completely outside the music?

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Yeah, my job was vaguely related, it was um facilitating music classes at a juvenile detention center. So that was vaguely related. But every now and then you'd make a rap song with some of the big boys or girls. Um but all the other jobs were yeah, unrelated.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah, well, do you do you have um any like a plan in mind? And like have you been thinking actively how can you make that happen? Like n to have music full-time?

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Well, one thing I want to try is playing more often, because uh over the years I've played very infrequently. Um now I'm trying to say yes to more things, even make more things happen overseas. I don't know what that will achieve. It's not like you get paid much for shows. Um, but maybe sort of spreading my music to more people could lead to more demand for shows or something. Other than that, I'm kind of trusting the unknown. You know, sometimes if you want things they they come to. I'm talking about, you know, like a commission to compose music for a play or a film or something, or here and there, like recently a song was used in an American T V show. And you don't really plan for that kind of thing, but just one day you get an email. And that pays pretty well. But it's it's not frequent. Well, it's the first time.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

But okay, like if you, you know, it means that they are I always think that, you know, if they've can't reach out to you once, it means that you sort of, you know, they have you in their roster of songs, you know, artists who make music that's suitable for sync, you know, like for soundtracks and but that's good, yeah. I'm I'm really um I want to hear more about the unknown because um I don't know. I I I I I sort of approach these things completely differently. That's why I'm quite curious because I always think, yes, I agree that things will come to you if you want them, but I also think that you have to actively, you know, just have them present and and do as much as you can.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Yeah. Well, when I say the unknown, I don't mean I'm gonna sit here and wait for something to happen. I just mean that, you know, I trust in the possibilities, and then as my partner always says you keep your finger on the pulse. So when little things happen, you follow those leads.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

But for example, like uh, you know, going to Berlin and meeting one person who works or is good friends with someone who works for an hardest who is making a play in Kosovo. I didn't get this by the way. This is happening, but I was like in conversation about composing and that the philharmonic is performing the music for a play. Um see, I couldn't have planned that.

Routine or Flow?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah. But through little meeting people and through I think yeah, I guess you you've said that and now it explains like you know, if you have something in mind, I think you start seeing those things. You know, you don't see them if you don't think about them.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Or also, whereas if I'm working full-time and then after work going home, I'm not letting these things in.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess, you know, you agree. Well, from what I from from what you said, it means that you do need a lot of energy to do music. How how do you have a dis like is there a discipline or uh routine or ritual involved in your like? We're we're literally, okay, maybe just to give context to the listeners. We're in Saint Kilda East in Gregor's apartment, where in I in in an apartment in which immediately when I entered, I said, Oh, it looks like a Vulcan apartment. I don't know. I'm just maybe very biased. But um, it has that warmth, and you immediately offered me coffee, and that's for me, it's like okay, that's all I need. Um, but we're in your studio, it's sunny, it's really nice, and um yeah, it's a beautiful place to, you know, I feel like I wouldn't mind, you know, making music here. So is there a routine, time of day? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

I guess the only routine would be to follow when it's going well. Because I know sometimes you you have the time and you want to do it, but it's it's not gonna happen. So when it is happening, which is often when you're supposed to be doing something else or when it's the wrong time of day, then I would lean into it. And since kind of stopping working a couple of weeks ago in preparation to go overseas, that's led me to stay up till 4 a.m. some nights making new songs. And that feels great, you know, the hours just passed. That's that's when I feel truly fulfilled and without anxiety, and like I'm doing something that I'm supposed to be doing, or at least it feels that way. It's an illusion, but it's good enough for me because it it feels good.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I know exactly. I I completely agree. Yeah. That feeling of just fulfillment, that's like bodily experience. Um so there's no discipline in involved in terms of like, oh, let's, you know, like ha some artists such as um Nainike, he's the most famous one, but everyone knows, you know, he treats it as a work, you know. Let's do studio time from nine to five. Have you ever tried that? Did it work?

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Um I mean the last few weeks I would wake up and make a coffee, then start, and then it would be you know, skipping a meal without realizing that or it gets cold I get cold and it gets dark. So I do do it long hours but without thinking about it or having to say, okay, I start at nine, start at I finish at five. Um I think maybe in Germany I should employ some routines because it's maybe not sustainable to do it late into the night and then I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

I don't know. I I don't overthink it, you know, I think you you from from you know, of course you can try it. I also think that you you said that yourself actually just a few minutes ago. Um uh how you know it's it's important to uh not be comfortable all the time. And I think as part of that motto, it might be good to try something different, you know. Um, and maybe that different for you is having a more like a schedule. Yeah. Because you don't have it, maybe for some other artists might be they have a schedule, maybe don't have a schedule. I don't know. Whatever, like sort of shaking up the ground beneath you in every single sense. Um so I don't know. Like I've never I was very much like you up until um maybe January this year, where I decided to uh uh whenever like to to literally dedicate three days per week just for music. Like, and now like and tried to even completely shut down social media, like put my phones away, not not look at emails, because even reading an email before music sometimes sort of poisons my brain and soul. Um, and it's actually been working well because I guess whatever you write down, even if it's shit, you just like save it. Who knows? Like you do produce a lot of material. If it's not uh fruitful yet, it will become maybe.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

Yeah, I've had that experience.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yeah. So now tomorrow you're heading to Berlin. Yes. For four months.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

About four months, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

And how do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_03 29:15

I feel excited. Yeah. This time I have some shows booked around the place, around Europe a little bit. Um, whereas last time I didn't have any of that. That was a completely free schedule and figuring out what what to do with myself. But this time I'm excited having come back from the first time and worked full-time and realized again that I prefer to have time to do music than this time I feel more ready to harness that.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Okay, I I'm excited for you. I'm thinking it's gonna where. So the shows are where?

SPEAKER_03 29:52

One's in Berlin, one's in Paris, and then one's in Belgrade. Zagreb, Ljubljana.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Some of these are TBC, but do you know where in Zagreb and Ljubljana and Belgrade?

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Belgrade, there's one in Dim.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Dim, that's a new one. I don't know. Dim. Dim, like smoke.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah, like smoke. And one's Kvaka.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Kvaka 22, yeah, catch 22.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Muladen Slash Lavich has realized these ones. Ah so you mean to Kvaka?

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh like um the bass player from uh Repetitor, she was in charge of for catch 22 when they started. So now it's like a new generation of people leading them. But yeah, it's it's a great place. Cool. Like underground venues. Yeah. Okay. And what about the songwriting and I guess what are you working on right now? A new album. Okay. So it has a like you have a an idea of what Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

I mean, I've already got enough for enough runtime for an album, you know, by industry standard of 40 to 50 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

But there are lots of songs that I haven't gotten to that I think need to be on there. So it might be like a long album.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Okay, let's go back to the songwriting. I'm quite interested. Can you tell me how your songwriting process goes? Is it multiple songs that you're working at time? Is it just one song? Do you ever go back to the song that you sort of finished and then you rearrange it?

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yeah, all of the above. Like this album I'm kind of concurrently working on ten songs. Some of them were made, well, the skeleton was made in a two, three, four, five years ago. Some of them are completely new, like they didn't exist until a month ago. I'm talking about the the moot music and the arrangement here. The lyrics all for all of these songs came up in the last month. So even though they're from different times, some completely new, some completely old, did they all fit on the album because they're finished at the same time? And yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Then I'll work on one and then maybe I want variety, so I'll save it and go to another one.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

And do you work in Ableton?

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

And do you do you change how much of you know, how how often do you have a situation with, you know, you want to change the arrangement of the s song? Like do you have multiple versions of the song?

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Yeah, I tend to if I make a new version, I tend to very rarely do I save it as a new copy. I just update it. So it's evolved.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Okay. So you don't yeah, I see what you mean. You sort of really make a cut and it's like, okay, so this is I won't go back to the old version.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

There's no if I think what I've made now is more developed and better, I don't need the old version to come back to because this is what it is now.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Okay. So it seems like you do you have a problem with, you know, letting go of things or songs?

SPEAKER_03 33:01

No. Do you mean like going well, just leave it? Yeah. I've got hundreds of those.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Oh yeah. But you save them. Do you ever go back to them?

SPEAKER_03 33:09

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Maybe five years later and Yeah, okay, because that's what I'm hearing. Okay. Yeah. Making music, it's not enough to just do it after work.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

You need hours. You need exactly just multiple days.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

I often sit down, you know, I would write, let's say there's like one piano roll, whatever. And then I would spend hours just thinking about that sound. Or I would spend two hours just singing different harmonies to that piano roll until I hit the right one. And maybe it's the next morning that I feel like it's the thought of just being in that, you know, just going to sleep and then waking up with like, you know, having coffee and then sitting down, and you're like, oh, this is great. Oh, this is a war. Well, what the fuck just happened? Um that's why I do, you know, agree with you and I completely understand the need. Like that's the end consistency, and just like, you know, everyone says, oh, it's the focus. Well, this is the focus. This is what it's needed for focus.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

You can't stop for a week.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

And do your work, do your job, and then have the same consistency. You have to remember where you were. Yeah, it needs to be you need to go with it when it's working well.

Cillian Murphy + BBC moment

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Well, we've talked about the good stuff. The the reasons why we are, you know, doing what we're doing, you're doing what you're doing. What about the stuff like releasing songs, uh hustle, networking, gigs, booking? You've been, as I mentioned, from Cillian Murphy from BBC. How did that happen?

SPEAKER_03 34:43

I don't know. You just found the song and wanted to play it.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

And did you get a notification?

SPEAKER_03 34:49

No, it was like How did you find out? Oh, on Instagram or something? Or I think the label Chapter Music told me that they saw it was put in a playlist and I went back in and listened to him and he gave a little introduction. No, I didn't know that was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

How did you feel?

SPEAKER_03 35:06

At the time I thought it was cool. I mean of course. I since then I feel uh like it's even cooler. At the time I was like, oh, I know that actor. This is kind of cool. I just sort of I didn't I didn't think too much of it, but now I'm more interested in it.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Okay. Well and now you could use it as um, you know, as part of your pitch, elevator pitch.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

I'm kind of new to the hustling thing. I've only started recently. I for 10 years was with chapter music and I didn't really need to do much. And I was was a little complacent to be honest, but now they're stopping what they're doing, just being a reissue of able, so no new releases. So now I'm self-releasing and now I'm organizing things for myself. So do you have how how would I use this the Killian Murphy thing to my advantage?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Killian, I have to say Cillian.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

I I was saying Cillian before this thing happened.

Berlin, Europe shows + Trusting the Unknown

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Okay, Killian Murphy. Yeah, I I usually don't know the actors, but that one I know. Yeah um how well, you know, it makes complete complete sense for me because he's also he's first and foremost, he's you know he's an actor, right? And like you you would love to have your um music uh played in shows or movies. So that's like I guess the first sort of entrance, ah, you know, Killian Murphy. And the way you can write it, write it in your pitch is like, you know, uh Killian Murphy from Peaky Blinders uh, you know, uh featured my song on his BBC show. And that's already like aha. You have the actor who everyone knows the Peaky Blinders, there's a show, and then you have BBC. That's enough to for someone who's reading, uh huh. So here's an act, he's a musician who's already established and makes music that's good enough for BBC and for mainstream. Does that make sense? It's something I would put in my bio. Or not not in bio. I would even say, you know, if you're reaching out to, let's say you're reaching out to a sync agency. But yeah, you could put it in a in a bio. You should put it in a bio, I guess BBC, yeah. You should put it in a bio, but I think it's more directed to whoever is in charge of choosing songs for movies. But yeah, that's how I would think about it. Yeah, of course. Uh yeah, I don't know. I hate the hustle, but I do it because there's no other way around. Yeah. So, okay, because I was wondering how much strategy is there behind your releases and your shows and not at all.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

I mean, the ones that were released with Chapter Music, I'm sure they had a bit of strategy around uh single uh campaigns and what month it was released and stuff. But now that I'm self-releasing, I don't know. I just do it when it's finished or when it feels right.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

And do you is that something that worries you or like do you do you want to change that? Do you want to do anything about it?

SPEAKER_03 38:05

I think the only thing I would want to change is knowing how to publicize it better to um, I don't know, m music journalists or something? I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

And what about social media? How big of a role is like do you I post about it?

SPEAKER_03 38:22

So this is out.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

This is what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

I don't constantly post about them. It'd be to my detriment. Because I think if you post once, no one only a few people see it or something.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Yes and no. I think it's uh from from all the conversations that I had, and I asked this question to all my guests, and I I talk about this a lot with uh people who are in the industry, outside of the industry, it's sort of um a double-edged sword, but also I'm I'm kind of thinking, oh, is there a way? I'm I'm trying to be optimistic in in thinking, is there a way to actually avoid spamming and doing so much of social media? Because it's so saturated that it's questionable if it really brings anything. I don't know. You know, because now that I'm like looking at you while you're like responding to this question, I'm actually envious to this feeling of just like, hey, it's finished, I'm gonna put it out. Whereas my approach is like, okay, I already have dates in mind where each of the singles will go out. And that one date when it's released is such a it's like a drop in the ocean because it's surrounded by all these things pre-release, post-release activities. And I, you know, I get a panic attack thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

So what should I be doing pre- and post-rooms?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah, look, I I don't know if I'm the, you know, I don't I don't consider myself a master in that. I don't, I just try to do as much as I can, but not on on social media and like reaching out to to well, I guess the first thing is like maintaining relationships with journalists and reaching to all those people who uh have been supporting your music. And I think it's not about leveraging those relationships, it's more about, hey, you know, you're the first one that I want to let know that this is what I've made. Do you want to listen to it before it's released? Do you want to write about it or have an interview? I think that's that's how I do it at least. Uh, but you know, it's like it literally asks, requires you to sit down. And I don't want to like, I don't send a blanket cover email. I send an individual email. You know, I know those people, they're people, but it takes time, right? And then so I would I would suggest that that's the least that you can do. And that's at the same time, yes, is like time um consuming, but at the same time, I'd rather do that than post on social media all the time or like TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yeah. Um TikTok's beyond me.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Yeah, I don't I have TikTok. I just reshare what I um, you know, if I create just like a short reel of my live performance, then I just reshare that. But I I literally cannot um process the app. Yeah. When I open it, I just want everything to stop for a second, you know. I don't want any sound or movement coming out of the app. And it's impossible, or I don't know how to do it. So I'm just like what you do with your time. Yeah, it's it's it just keeps going without my control. And it really, I realize that it's actually trig like it's really doing me bad. Yeah, no, no good. So I I would I I I honestly uh want to think and I think that people are indeed getting uh really sick of everything that they have in their social media, like listeners. And I also think it's like knowing, reading the room, knowing who your audience is, who are those people, you know, where do they go? What do they like? But at the same time, all those thoughts do feel a bit businessy, totally.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Yeah, unfortunately. Part of the part of the fashion vocation.

Milk Thistle Salmon Blush

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Yeah. Well, I think um, I don't know, I think I want to talk to you even more, but uh I I sort of try to keep this in a normal like length of I don't know, 45 minutes usually if I cut out. But do you wanna like do you want to share something?

SPEAKER_03 42:39

I guess I could promote an album that's yes, you can not finished and has no release dates yet. Come on, but this is a good practice for your hustle. Over the next few weeks or months, I will release some songs and eventually an album called Milk Thistle Salmon Blush.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Whoa, okay. Uh, I really like the title. Thank you. But you're really good at titles.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

Maybe do you want to give us a little bit of insight what's behind whatever behind the title, behind the vibe of the album and well, I guess the what's behind the title also gives you sense of the vibe of the album, which is all these things are kind of double meanings, you know. Milk is a thing and a thistle is a thing, but milk thistle is a plant of its own. Salmon is an animal and a cover. Blush is an emotional response as well as a cosmetic product. They're all disparate elements brought together to paint one image. Same with the music, you know, there's the instrumentation is diverse. There are ballads, piano ballads, and then there are I guess electronic dance music. But all quite psychedelic and painting an image.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

And do you already have a art?

SPEAKER_03 44:03

It's just it's a text-based artwork.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

You y you du uh did it yourself? Yeah I did it. Okay. I look forward to it. Do you know so during your trip in Germ stay in Germany and I guess in Europe, you're gonna be finishing it off and then I guess end of the year before Christmas or even earlier?

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Uh even earlier. Maybe the first song might be out in two weeks to a month.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Okay. You're probably thinking I I mean like the whole album officially, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Uh maybe October.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Why not?

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Why not?

SPEAKER_03 44:37

I don't see why not.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Okay. I will.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

I'm already performing it. I just need to I guess record the vocals properly.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Do you do it here?

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Yeah, I do it here. Or I'll do it in German in a similar room.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

I look forward to it listening and um thanks for thanks for you know inviting me to your home and your studio and taking the time for your trip.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

I appreciate it. Good, I'm glad. This is Lucia E.K., creator and host of Serial Music Talks podcasts. Each month I sit down with musicians, music producers, and sound designers based in Melbourne to talk about the real challenges we face in the industry, whether it's breaking into new markets, battling imposter syndrome, overcoming writer's block, or just navigating the cruel world of social media. I approach these conversations as an artist myself, and like most of us, I'm also just trying to figure it all out on the go. A new episode drops every last Tuesday of the month, so if you want to stay connected, you can subscribe to my newsletter via Substack. Just find the link somewhere below above it.