Cruise Ship Spirit, Terminal Tenacity: The Leadership Story of Sarah Haidar

In this episode of The Wavemakers Podcast, we sit down with Sarah Haidar—a dynamic maritime leader with over 20 years of experience in port operations, terminal management, and digital transformation.

From running terminals in Beirut to developing IT strategies for NEOM, Sarah shares what it takes to lead in a traditionally male-dominated industry while raising a family, mentoring women, and advocating for digital innovation.

🔍 We explore:
- How a finance graduate ended up running ports
- The emotional and operational realities of 24/7 terminal work
- Juggling leadership, motherhood, and midnight crane calls
- The rise of smart ports, AI, and digital transformation in maritime
- Why women need support systems—not just strength—to thrive
- The role of WISTA and what they're building for the next generation

If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like behind the port gates—or how to thrive as a leader balancing resilience, tech, and teamwork—this one’s for you.

🎧 Listen in and join us in celebrating the women moving the maritime world forward.

#TheWavemakersPodcast  #SmartPorts #MaritimeWomen #WISTA #Leadership #PortOperations #DigitalTransformation #WorkLifeBalance #ShippingIndustry #TerminalManagement

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🔗 Related Resources and Links:
• Follow Gordana Ilic on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gordanailicphd/
• Follow us on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@BetterSea

📩 Have questions or comments? Feel free to reach out via email at gordana.ilic@bettersea.tech

Transcript

[Music] Hello and welcome to another episode of the Wavemakers podcast where we feature people's stories at the intersection of maritime digital transformation and decarbonization My guest today has over 20 years of experience in port operations and terminal management So today we will be taking a look at the story behind the port perspective She has worked on projects with Port of Beirut as well as formed IT strategy for the terminal of NEOM and besides that she's been quite active in the WISTA society in UAE So I would like to welcome today Sarah Haidar Thank you Thank you so much Gordana It's pleasure also to see you always Thank you So in your own words who is Sarah? First uh let me thank you for in for uh having me with you today Uh it's always great uh to see you specifically here in Dubai regularly and this is just an indication how much Dubai has become u um a hub and a maritime help for professionals in our industry and specifically um when we talk about subjects of digitalization and decarbonization Um so thank you again and great to see you Um so about myself uh as you said thank you for the introduction I'm I'm Sarah I am a professional in the maritime industry specifically have been working in port and container terminal management for the past 20 years When it comes to me um hard work and teamwork are core in everything I do uh in addition to uh evaluation and to tell you more about it I believe that uh hard work is very important to get where you want to go It's about the number of hours you put and anything you have any goal you you have you can uh you can achieve I think uh it's all about u teamwork getting people together to uh to problem solve things and achieve the objectives and um I think I'm really good at u having the balance of evaluating uh the pros and cons of the different options when it comes to decision making uh and I've I've um I've developed this a lot over the past years specifically in the industry Um so that's in a nutshell away from work and my personal view I'm also passionate uh in supporting women um in the industry and uh playing as a role model uh to to showcase uh women uh among us and as you said I've been very much uh involved in uh in different associations WISTA UAE um and uh where we are supporting women and showcasing them in in UAE and the region What was your story of coming to shipping How come you ended up in the maritime industry I mean uh I graduated from completely a different uh background I'm a finance investment analysis graduate Uh I I just applied to a position in the port of Beirut back then um and started uh completely in um in my in my domain in my profession and then uh uh I just got hooked with the industry because of the there's a lot to learn and this is something I love I like a lot of people to to to meet and engage with Um and I as I said I I I too much like uh this collaboration and teamwork Um so so yes I mean it is it's it's all about the um uh uh the the the learning the continuous learning that you you would have to to to put in to learn this industry something new to me learning what's a container how does it move a vessel all these details they were very interesting and I just got uh got uh attached to it and uh and I always when I talk to people I tell them it's either you like it and you stick to it or you just don't like the industry and the and the and the it's it's it's how volatile it is how much it is changing how much it is dynamic as well and how much it needs a lot of um quick uh decision making But at the same time you need to to weigh uh how how things are moving So yeah I mean I just liked it I just um and and started learning a lot and this is how I shifted gradually to different roles from business development to project management and learning about the operation and all these things within the industry Do you have any interesting story from back in the beginning I mean a lot of interesting stories a lot of challenging ones as well But as I was telling you I mean if you look at it from the outside it looks like ah it's a very simple process Uh it is all about the ship comes you you discharge a container and then you just ship it back and or you deliver it to the customer and that's it But then when you look at the details it's very complex It it it involves a lot of getting people together you know and and uh and uh and getting all these components together from technology to equipment to to people as I said and and uh and all of this is not is not easy But as a specific story I would say it's um it is it is just being able to I mean I mean to be dynamic and always active and in my role as a as a woman running a port running a terminal at some points it was uh always uh surprising and interesting when you get a call at uh at 3:00 a.m The first thing I never put my phone silent because it can ring at any time We are running a 24/7 operation so you have to be alert all the time Um I mean uh that's that was that was one of those things that you need to be uh very active all the time and alert Uh and at the same time you will have to have this work life balance as a woman with two children and family So this was all these challenges were challenges but at the same time they were always pushing me to to give more and to uh and to to to to move forward in the industry in general It happens also with my podcast scheduling that sometimes people like hey something happened we need to urgently act and I need to cancel it or reschedu it And uh this it is a reflection of how dynamic it is and it can just ring at any point right you don't know when you have free time or not Definitely And how did it change you How did you see yourself evolving as you were also uh learning more about it and moving up and gathering the years of experience Yeah I mean as I said it's a lot of learning uh there's a lot of learning a lot that you need to learn And what I um what I've established over the years is that um you you need to be flexible You need to always think about um how you create things that are flexible and you need to be always embracing change Um this industry is somehow um let me say labeled as an industry that is um traditional conventional that is that things are happening in process and things are not evolving But no the industry is now changing and and that's where you as a person need to um as a person and as as an organization you're working with you will have to also embrace uh this change and uh and be flexible to it and always think outside the box and be innovative And for that you need to be up to date of what's happening around you and and you need to be able to also um um learn and educate yourself about the different evolutions uh that are happening around even though in the country for example that you are in or in the organization you are in this is not the case but you will have to be up to date otherwise you will you will be out of the out of the u game let me call it like that So so yes I've learned a lot to be flexible to be always adaptable to to change Um and and one most more the most important thing that has developed within me is is also uh when when you're taking decisions So you will have to consider all the options because we work in an industry that that I we believe is based on core principles of safety efficiency and uh uh safety quality and efficiency So you cannot only just serve your clients and turn around the vessel very quickly and that's it You have to think first safety Safety has to be the first thing you think about And this is what we tell all the people that work with us And this is what we teach and and we we basically lecture let's say or or we we market in in in our industry and specifically when you're talking about ports uh where you have high-risk environments um whether on the vessel or in the ports a lot of machines working etc So so yes you have to think about safety and then how you deliver a quality service and definitely how to be efficient and this is where you need to be having not only cost reductions but like being efficient in terms of your your carbonization all these things coming around now uh how you have to be uh using less resources with doing more and so on So this is where you need to be very um um like u start being very call it like evaluating things uh quickly as well because real time decision- making is also important Yes it is interesting uh how you need to balance again the priority of ensuring safety and then providing something at better service with a better service at uh more improved times and more efficiently and the standard is being so high right now I think it's really asking us to squeeze ourselves as much as possible but to do it in a very open way Definitely And uh how would you compare the environment for example here in UAE compared to Beirut I mean yes definitely I mean as I was saying in the beginning uh the UAE has its scalability Definitely we're talking about a different scale I mean definitely I cannot um not mention that in Lebanon when we when I first started the industry was very new and uh I think we were proudly able to um to place the port of Beirut on the on the list of top 100 ports in the world and I was uh I'm I'm proud that I've been a part of this and I've witnessed the growth of Port of Beirut over the years Um so yeah definitely uh Beirut does have an existing industry now uh existing workforce that knows the industry and this is uh this is something that as a as a Lebanese I'm proud of unfortunately due to the different uh situations that Lebanon has been passing through this has not evolved as it should but switching to to to to Dubai and the UAE uh definitely I mean I'm I'm relatively new here so I can't speak a lot about uh uh about the industry here Um but what I've seen what I've been involved in I'm very proud that I'm um uh I'm I'm part of of of this industry uh here and and I'm I feel I'm lucky to be here as well because today uh UAE and Dubai specifically has become a hub for the industry featuring one of the top ports in the world in terms of uh in terms of volume and uh and uh and throughput uh uh getting together people from different industries and and also featuring the most important events in the industry as well and in other supporting industries whether we're talking about technology and IT artificial intelligence and and even uh energy conferences that are very much important and supportive to our to our industry So yes um having this exposure by itself is is really uh is really important and has has shaped me as well in terms of my career in general And we briefly touched upon Vista uh before we entered the room and you said that even within these four years you have seen it evolve here quite a bit Uh so I would want to ask you to elaborate on that as well when when I started here uh basically Wista has has been um also newly established when I started and I was uh I directly joined uh them and was um made sure I'm very active with everyone in the in in Wista um Wista has has evolved throughout the past uh two years uh so far Um with engaging having um a large number of members today um featuring around 100 members um and we are still growing um where we are also getting uh people from uh different uh different uh sectors within the industry We are proud actually to have a lot of people within the a lot of women uh within the industry also in in Wista It wist in general has also giving given me as someone new in the UAE this exposure to a network of professional uh women uh here in the uh in in in the UAE Um so so yes I mean uh it has been evolving as I said and it created uh an a network that of professional women uh that are very strong very effective very eager uh to uh to support each other and to to showcase women um within the industry uh in a ve in in a in a very in a great way actually And uh you are there involved a lot with marketing external relations with the community building part of it through events and organization of them right And then I noticed that in your professional work you also enjoy this whole team building and a stakeholder management and I just find it to be such an interesting parallel building just happened by I think it's just uh sometimes it's it's synergies that get to uh to to attract you you know and yes true you just quoted yes it is in the beginning you you mentioned uh at the very beginning that team building and team is very important element yeah I mean I'm I'm I I strongly believe u I'm from those that believe it's not only about soul uh uh success uh stories you know like it's not only about me succeeding it's also about um having the right team around you a good talented professional team that support you is a key specifically in as as I said in our industry and and what I've worked in um it it's never that you know everything uh but it's how you get uh to to get the best out of your team uh basically and uh yeah so so that's that's true so with that um I will ask you which vessel are you and why okay I would choose to be a cruise vessel I think because the cruise vessel is like creates a space for everyone to be there like it's a lively vessel as well this is how I see it a lot of exploring and discovering um yeah I I don't see myself a sailing boat sailing alone in the sea or a boring uh I don't know I'm not not saying other vessels are boring but like very complicated multimodel vessel I mean yeah but I see myself a cruise special vessel a fun vessel a fun vessel yeah that gets together everybody but it's also big and challenging yeah what's other advice advice do you give to women first to find the the right support people support system around her Yes it's I I am with the the saying of strong independent women Okay I'm not against it at all But it's never a woman alone It's it's women supporting women and it's also men supporting women So you need to first um see what do you like what do you love and and go for it And I think your story is is one of those interesting that I've heard I mean hearing your story that you were in the in the industry working in in um I mean in in a company just doing the day-to-day job and now shifting to what you love and doing what you love is also um a great example And this is what I I think each woman should do just follow the opportunity that uh that they see in terms of what they like and what they love and and try to be around uh a really a support system that is that supports her to achieve what she wants at the end of the day um and and of course I mean work on yourself and and and uh and uh evolve yourself but also uh find the right people around you to support you in that journey also for uh me it's been also the people like okay I I wanted to do something and I felt my heart is guiding me to take some more risks and take an adventure But it's also that people along the way who I've met who were uh inspired by that or encouraging me to do it and sometimes this small uh self-doubt thoughts that you hear it's sometimes nice to to get a little bit of a push like okay and I mean everyone in life needs a push right I mean I mean yes sometimes you need to to listen to the negative I'm not saying no definitely because this is where you work on your uh weaknesses let me call it like that or your challenges but also from time to time being supported is very important Mhm In your growth Yeah Um is there a story also where you felt that that support factor uh affected your choices It is the continuous change I mean in my career I've been switching between different uh different uh uh places and positions and uh and it it has it had some volatility in terms of even though I was still in the same industry but I've been shifting around a bit within the same uh even even within the same company but um uh to to in general it is about u uh making sure that um I I don't see any barrier let me call it like that in anything I I am given in any role or any responsibility I'm given So I never thought ah I'm the only woman in in the uh in the room I never thought that this is this is a barrier I always tried to put in my mind I need to overcome this even if it is it is the fact Um and sometimes you have these feelings ya Allah I'm the youngest I'm the only woman you know like you have these things and and I always told myself I have to overcome those I have to see to focus on my strength uh and that's where I I I basically focused so so when I took the role of a terminal manager this was a changing point in my uh in my career um and I was young at that that time relatively young and I was the youngest among a lot of people and I was a woman and uh and I had to prove myself and uh lucky enough I did for seven years Um and and this is where I decided and I saw that I need to stick to uh my my strength and and make my knowledge stronger and and focus on that in general and not focus on any negativity around Was it uh intimidating when you just joined and then you came from a different background and so young and they must be talking some different language What are these relations I heard a lot I mean she's young I mean like you know like sometimes I have some people coming to see me sometimes for a meeting and they don't know me and then they said when they meet me I mean they think that I'm the front side I'm the secretary and I'm the person taking notes in the meeting or something and then they they realize no I mean she is the manager she's the one in charge and and this is these are some funny uh funny instances that that happened to me and early in my career but but to be honest they they played the double role you know like being a woman sometimes gives you an advant advantage because uh especially in our industry you you tend to have less people cursing around you because there's a lot of things going around when the challenges were there but also as I told you it did I mean there was um I was lucky to have actually support from the management I I worked with uh at that time and uh this was very uh this was an opportunity for me because it did push me a lot I learned a lot from from them as well uh they were great mentors to me and uh and this is um this is I believe is is very important was very important in shaping my uh and supporting me throughout my career Uh and definitely I worked on myself a lot Um especially when you are dealing with people that are more experienced than you in terms of the number of years of experience in terms of the age in terms of the gender as well Um and dealing with uh with different stakeholders as well It's not only the internal ones You have to deal with the government with the port authority with the customs with all these authorities Um it it this made me stronger um and made me overcome um like all these uh small things that might come your way I agree with that and I have also experienced how being able to face different stakeholders really builds you up differently because you learn to grow different of skills You learn how to listen better and to zoom out of the situation So it creates certain depth to the way you think and you work And I've also had that privilege that many doors were opened for me by uh colleagues who were uh men and they gave me space because often times I was the only lady in the room So they're like you start what do you think about it Exactly So that's also really fun I ask because I want to also break some of the biases as well And how is it when you have kids and when you are busy in marry time How do they see it And does it affect also what they want to do You know I'll tell you a funny story about this when uh when we moved to UAE there was some time that I was not uh engaged in uh in any work I mean I left my job in Lebanon I was still uh working but uh but remotely but I was not going you know like they are used to me they are you used to me going waking up every morning going to the port coming back it's best and then we were going to Abu Dhabi when we first came uh and my son saw the cranes at Jab Ali port this was after four or five months and he was like mom there's a port here why don't you come and work here and I was like you know like they are used to they are used to me in this in this area So so even then they are so much affected uh by me being there to the fact that when they saw uh a port they said mom come and work in this port So uh yes I mean um as I said having a support system is very important uh because you definitely need support with travel with all these things and thanks to my husband he's very helpful in in taking care of the kids but the kids they just get used to it Uh my mom is on a call my mom is busy um she's at work uh they just get used to it and uh and it's it's it's interesting and uh they just take a lot from you as well when you are a working woman and uh specifically as I said in in my um in this industry you need to be in the role I was playing I had to be taking calls at night uh a lot of men working around me as well So they get used to that and uh and and they like it and and when I used to take them to the port with me my elder son my my little one was very young when I was in Lebanon But he used to like it I mean go around the port see the cranes the containers all these things So adventure adventure So yeah we often time jokes uh joke Max and myself when we have so many calls and our dog is just sleeping in the corner and we are joking that by now he became a maritime decarbonization specialist because

Exactly I mean yeah I mean it's it's just uh I mean it's a reflection you know at the end of the day the kids are a reflection of you and and striking this work um work balance uh work life balance is is is not easy and whoever says it is is is just saying things just to say things It's not easy It is it needs a lot of um a lot of effort to be done and you you will have to get used to um to the fact that you have to be uh uh responsive to your work uh because your work is a 247 operation when it comes to to me I have my husband He also works in the media industry which is also requires being also available sometimes on weekends sometimes at the the middle of the day and so on middle of the night sorry And uh and at the same time you need to spend time with your family with your kids So that's why you need to explain to them what do you do They need to appreciate it I mean they are so young for that At least my my kids are nine and five there is very young but still I mean they do understand that when there's work there's work and when we have time to spend together this is time for for us together and this is where you need to as a person as well uh try to um it needs a lot of work at least with me because I'm a bit workaholic let me put it like that I didn't want to say that but I just it slipped but but yeah I mean uh sometimes you just need to wake up and say it's time for family and that's and just focus and give it the time that they need because they do need us as well Uh and then at the same time not compromise your work So yeah it it needs a lot of uh effort I'm h I'm finding it very hard to take a distance to be honest Uh sometimes I I mean I go to sleep late and I'm still thinking and solving the work in my head and it's not good I can imagine Yeah And I'm just wondering okay I don't know how I would be able to fit kids into all of this as well But when you have to you fit it like you find a way to organize yourself Exactly Because every challenge I mean it's like any challenge you have in work like now if you get a project and uh it's a big one and you you're just stuck You have to do it You're going to do it right Because you're focused You're going to put your mind into it And I always tell them one kid two kids and then you start thinking when you think backwards how did I have how did I do all this I used to wake up at 5:00 a.m I used to go to sports and then come back take the kids to the school and you know like all this routine go to the office come back and Yes at some point you you can you can Well managing a terminal teaches you something about organization and system It does indeed And efficiency Yeah Yeah How do you see the future the industry has has evolved a lot uh in the past five years and it's uh it's really interesting to see how many companies have evolved in the past I think five years in the in the last report I was reading it was it was it was surprisingly to see how many companies has evolved into the technology supporting sector within the industry and uh and there are quite at least top 50 innovative companies that are very new and and then you see how much companies existing companies are uh investing in technology and artificial intelligence and the machine learning and all these uh and all these um titles So um yes the the the industry has has evolved a lot and is and continue uh to evolve with all the uh with all the challenges that are coming in and the regulations and the requirements that are also being put uh by the different organizations Um but uh but also um if we want to look at the big picture today and as I heard it in one of the in the re in a recent interview with the Singapore um authority port authority they were saying digitalization is is no longer uh good to have It is a survival strategy So today some countries and some places around the world are considering digitalization as a must because this is the only way you can um survive in the industry with all the innovation that is happening and all the automation that is happening like in China you look I mean huge automation is happening So this is where you see today uh all the investments that are being put into the into the industry um are are in this uh in this sense um also the new ports that are being built the new ships that are being also manufactured are that are being built as well um are supporting uh digitalization decarbonization um all these alternative uh tools that would optimize the the process in general Um and and they will have to to move towards this uh I mean this change um and and we have seen also I think flexibility has is very important uh because you you need to uh be flexible and to be adaptable to any changes that are upcoming Um and and you need to educate yourself a lot about technologies that are in the industry Um so yeah the future is for technology uh I'm not an expert in uh in decarbonization but I know that also a lot of efforts are being done in terms of uh going green and and zero carbonization because also if we want to look at the statistics and the numbers and I mean even though today it's only 3% of of the total emissions from this industry but in 2050 if nothing happens I mean it will become 17% as per one of the statistics So so basically there's a lot of work that needs to be done but also there's a lot of work that is already being done uh and and and then a lot of investments and this is where different players are um you you would see a lot of um a lot of investments being done in technology and automation and this is how I see it the regulations were the ones who were pushing for more transparency and that was driving uh digital transformation in many ways and now the development of technology and AI so fast that there is an element of FOMO that is kicking in so companies in different countries know that they really have to move along the path fast so that they don't get left behind And luckily that is working hand inhand with all the efforts around decarbonization because that too needs a lot of data for informed decision making definitely does and and you know like uh I don't think achieving decarbonization alone with like all these alternative fuels and all all these um I mean u resources I mean yes this is this is one thing but digitalization is very important because this is where you tend to um to optimize the process So when I'm talking when we are talking about the port for example um I I've I've seen like for example having a port community system with proper uh appointment system for vessels when they arrive and all these things and being able to turn around a vessel very quickly and saving 25 minutes of the vessel uh turnaround time can save you around six tons of CO2 Wow uh emissions So imagine so um so so yes digitalization is very important having a paperless environment as well all through the the process of the of the uh container and and the vessel is is also uh by itself decreasing CO2 emissions So yes they go hand in hand I fully agree with you and even when you look at all these new companies emerging uh in the industry it is it is it is a smart shipping and smart ports these are the two sectors that are very important and within them it is it's a lot of also a lot of things that would help you to uh a lot of technologies that worked into uh decarbonization all these titles let's call it like that so yeah and uh which of these makes you the most excited about Is there a specific technology or a specific project that you're working on I mean in in general we are there's no not not not a specific thing but it is in general AI I mean the introduction of artificial intelligence today it's a world that you I think on a personal level I see that is very interesting and it it does shape it it it it will shape the industry let me put it like that it's there's a lot of tools that today are not being fully utilized by uh the users Um and uh and I think there's a lot to be done there A lot of learning and a lot of testing and a lot of uh added value that can come from uh from artificial intelligence I think Um so yeah this is it has been the topic of my uh of my uh ongoing researches in the past period I noticed that people in this region are very optimistic about AI and then sometimes in other regions when I speak to people they are scared of it and they're anxious about what the future hold but here people seem to be very excited about it Yes I mean if if you can uh increase safety decrease the the the workforce it's not about decreasing the number of workforce that is working with you but it's also uh uh providing people uh with a better solutions for them to work better Um now shifting a bit from artificial intelligence it's also about automation So having for example in ports uh remote control equipment uh can can make you hire people um to work in the office which creates a better working environment for them a safer one even for their u for their body for their uh I mean mental health etc safety not not being there around between equipment and containers moving um so yeah I mean there's a to be uh to be added from uh these technologies and and and the predictive technology of AI I mean yes there's a lot that we don't know that's why we have to educate ourself a lot and see what's going around and and yeah understand it more Which uh resources would you recommend or either about maritime in general about industry the trends like how to educate ourselves In our industry you tend for example to learn a lot from the aviation industry because you know like all this scheduling and uh and and real time u um programming and scheduling of uh of of vessels and all this has been adopted from the aviation industry and uh and there's a lot to learn from from that industry a lot of synergies that can be also implemented into into the uh into the maritime industry I'm just just putting one example but yes I mean there's a lot that we can learn from um from other industries It's it's also important to u to see what are what is being implemented what are the like when when we're talking about technology for example you would go and see what are the technologies being implemented in other industries as as well and maybe you will be the first one to to think ah this is something that we can get and implement in our in our industry as well and this this is how things has started to to come into the industry so yeah I think I I'm I strongly believe that uh that you can have synergies through Yeah They lose a bag We lose a a container Yeah I mean right True It is Well um do you have any questions for me I mean I think in in I would like to hear from you from your perspective as well Uh how do you think what is needed actually to support women more in this industry This is maybe what I'm trying to achieve partially through the podcast as well But I think fundamentally when we see each other in one another then we create this level of compassion and empathy that makes us more receptive to understand what the other people's journey is and what they need and to pay attention because in today's world I think people overall feel so much pressure to be everywhere do everything be at the top of their game and then because of that um optimization to perform We miss out to notice stories and people and their personal journey and naturally we would but we just have to kind of like limit what we expose ourselves uh to and I think that through creating that bridge uh we are able to create a community and then I believe that naturally our core intention to help and to be there for one another appears and then from there the ideas flow and then the collaborations happen and that leads to change and transformation No definitely No interesting I mean yeah I I do agree with you and I always uh and just speaking about that that basically we tend to be running and thriving to do everything specifically women and we spoke a bit about this like having uh being a mother and working women and also a wife and and a support system for your family and all these things and sometimes you just need to uh just pause and just say I uh I I there's no need to do everything you know Yeah Thank you for Thank you so much for your conversation and I'm sure that we will inspire some and maybe create that element uh within each other and I'm looking forward to meeting you again in Thank you It's always pleasure to see you Thank you so much Likewise [Music]