The Wavemakers Podcast

Investing in Maritime, Cleantech & AI with Chandni Jaga (Plug and Play)

• BetterSea • Season 3 • Episode 7

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Chandni Jaga, Senior Investment Associate at Plug and Play Tech Center, shares her beginings, how growing up in 9 countries shaped her view of the world, how she evaluates early-stage startups and what it takes to scale innovation in shipping: from corporate pilots and monetization strategy to where AI can (and can’t) move the needle in maritime operations. We also dig into regulation as a catalyst for change and why Singapore’s ecosystem is a standout for maritime tech founders.

If you’re building (or buying) maritime tech—this one’s for you.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Wave Makers podcast, where we focus on the stories of the people at the frontline of shipping, maritime decarbonization and digitalization. My guest today and I share a few things. She started as a chemical engineer. Then she was focused at improving processes, focusing on energy and fuel efficiency. But today she is investing in startups, actually driving the change in cleantech and also maritime. Please help me welcome Chani Yaga. It's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining and also for the viewers. We have some audience in the studio, so if they hear some, you know, applause, etc., they should not be surprised. I like to. In these sessions, I like to focus on people's personal stories as opposed to what we normally say at all the conferences. And then with that, I also like to ask you to share how you see yourself. How would you describe yourself? Sure. Um, so basically what I do right now is I'm a senior investment associate at Plug and Play. Plug and play is a corporate innovation platform. So what we do is we make large Macs with really innovative startups. So since I lead the investment side, you know, we also try to invest in really game changing early stage startups, anywhere from Pre-seed to series A, and then along the way, if we do feel that, you know, some of these startups are really solving a very important pain point for our corporate partners. We facilitate that and then sometimes we even launch accelerator programs. So that has been a very interesting way for us to even say, hey, you know, with this corporate partner, with these business units you have, What are the biggest problems you're facing? Which of those pain points can be solved by something innovative? And then how can we make that happen? And your journey towards investment has been quite interesting. Usually startups don't really expect investors to have a technical background or that have been on their side of the table, actually trying to improve efficiency, etc.. Can you reflect a little bit on that journey for you? Sure. So actually the whole situation of how I found myself in VC was completely by accident. Um, I spent my first 5 to 6 years as a chemical engineer and I told myself, okay, Chani, just just give yourself a couple years, try out a couple sectors and then see what you want to become an expert in, but get a taste as much as you can. So I worked as an engineer in semiconductors, so that was my good chance of getting into manufacturing and really seeing on a manufacturing level on the ground. You know, what does it take to really scale things up quickly? And then from then on, I also got a taste of wastewater treatment as well as maritime. I think my time in the maritime company was really, really interesting. I actually got to even visit a vessel and an oil tanker on board, which is really good experience. And it just so happened, I think, during the pandemic, you know, I found myself just thinking, you know, is this it? You know, is there something more that I can do? And I actually reconnected with an old mentor of mine from one of my internship days in the Netherlands, and he gave me some really strong advice when I told him about all these companies I worked at. But I don't know what I should go to next. And he actually said, well, you know, based on everything you're telling me, you know, you keep doing a lot of proactive projects around energy and sustainability. So why don't you try and target a job that actually has that as a forefront of your job focus, and then everything else can become secondary. And since I also love to read about all sorts of technologies at the same time, not just one industry. Um, plug and play worked out very well, so that mentor actually ended up connecting me to Plug and Play, where he just loved his experience of corporate innovation as a partner, as a client of Plug and Play. And so I came in basically leveraging my chemical engineering experience in multiple advanced manufacturing and maritime sectors, and then bring that on board to really assess startups on a technical level, to say, hey, okay, on a fundamental level, on a technical level, which technologies can be scaled up and commercialized in a very fast manner, and in which of those pain points can we really match you with the right corporate partners to really validate the technology even further? So completely by accident. And it just so turns out I just absolutely love what I do here at Plug and Play. You know, all of my tendencies for reading up about different sectors and different industries. I get to do that on a daily basis, and that's what helps me thrive, actually. Mhm. Um, and then being able to talk to so many founders and to really empathize with their journey is something that I really treasure, because I know how hard it is to start something and figure out things as you go. Um, but then we're also able to see on a corporate side, how difficult it is for someone within the company to come up with a really good idea, but you don't know how to really validate it. You don't know how much room you have to explore, um, how to even kick off a pilot internally. And we also get a really good sensing on the ground of what corporates really look for. Um, sometimes also in a corporate, maybe they don't have the right venue to channel that innovative spirit internally. Maybe. And it's often the case that, uh, people working in a corporate have so many ideas and shelved projects, but they're not sure how to materialize them. And then it's great when there is some sort of a formal structure that opens up often by an external, you know, thinking to to create that. And when you combine it with entrepreneurs who have all the enthusiasm and the time to actually materialize it, it's where the magic happens. Yeah. I think for me, as a third culture kid, I don't know if you're familiar with the term. I was born in India. My parents already working in Nairobi, Kenya for a good six years before I was born. And then they brought me back. So I basically spent my early childhood in Africa, and then we ended up moving around a lot. So in my pre-teen years, we moved between India and Singapore. And then after that, my high school was completely spent in the Middle East. And then from there our family moved to Europe, to the Netherlands. And then I went on to do my degree in the UK. So basically, you know, if you sum it all up, it's about nine countries. You know, I spent my childhood and growing up. And for me, I consider myself very lucky to have the cultural exposure that I did. But I think it also made me a very empathetic person, because I got to really understand everybody's journey, and it made me able to connect with a lot of people from different backgrounds. So I think that's something that ends up being a very secret superpower or something that I can use, even at my job here today, to really connect with different people, to really make sure that they're heard, to really understand, you know, a lot of these cultural nuances behind, you know, why do they decide what they decide and why do they have certain interests in a certain direction and so on. And how was it being so young and changing the place of living, and how did it affect the sense of belonging? Yeah, I mean, that's why I think I need third culture. I can probably relate. The deadliest question you can ask us is, so where is home? Where do you consider home like? I don't we really don't know. Home is just wherever you are at the moment. Yeah. It's what your parents or your family create as a loving atmosphere, you know, and where you happen to be at that moment. Mhm. I can relate to this. Not as young, but when I took off around 19. Um, also I kept changing countries and similar. I think it's like 8 to 9 now. The difference is that I took that conscious decision and I was driving my way through. Right. Whereas you were younger and had to deal with the situation that was put to you. Um, and I also empathize with this question where is home? Like, oh, there's each of these places holds an element of me and vice versa. And it's the people that I met and that I keep seeing that actually I associate home with rather than a place. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think every special. Every place is very special to my heart. Um, so we can't really choose what places. You know, better or friendlier than others because I think, you know, some countries have been to the hospitality. And the warm welcome we had was just so amazing. You know, there are other places where it really made me a much more competitive and capable version of myself. And I think there are also some places where I think the people you can tell really want to enjoy life, or they know how to enjoy life. And I think that's also important to really know how to sit back and relax and just really make use of everything around you and to be grateful. So I think I've learned something valuable everywhere I've gone back to startups and technologies and bridging this experience. It probably allows you a bigger array of tools when it also comes to assessing different technologies. Their potential for scalability, which is something that we disregard when we are developing something locally. And maybe it is working wonderfully, but then you disregard that things get tricky due to cultural differences, actually. Right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, what I can say is normally when we look at startups or when I look at startups, a simple rule I follow is the three T's. So this team tech and traction in that order of importance. I value team the most because I feel the more early stage you are, the more important the team members are. You want to see if the team members are dedicated to developing the solution. Do they just happen to be best friends, or do they really want to see the solution? Make some momentous change somewhere? And also, we want to see if that team is really the best amazing, kickass team to really grow this product. So it doesn't matter even if the startup did not have or pick the right business model at the time, but the team members should be trustworthy and smart and capable enough to say, hey, listen, we tried this revenue model. Maybe why don't we shift to a different monetization model and still survive? And how is it possible to figure out this kick ass team so early? Do you mean as an advice to founders, as an advice to investors picking the right team? It can be both. I'm more curious how you assess it, because I wonder you talk to, let's say, a team and there's so little that you see in these few calls that you have in these initial interactions. And I've from my own experience, I think that it's more like the attitude towards problem solving that defines how you succeed and whether and the growth mindset that goes the resourcefulness. But I always thought it's so difficult to see it from the investor's view in the few catchup calls that we have. Uh. Yeah. I mean, that's really important. Yeah, that's a good question. Um, so for me, what we usually do is we have a first meeting with the startup, and for me, that's just a vibe check. You know, do I like speaking with you? Do I sense a lot of passion behind it? Do I sense, you know, at least some level of strategy or alignment or some long term goals? Doesn't have to be fully realistic. But if the team member or the founder can say, hey, five years from now, I really want to be be able to execute XYZ. You know, that would be great. Um, some element of fantasy is always welcomed. I think we see a lot of founders even in, you know, Silicon Valley and so on. They have crazy ambitions, right? And it's so nice to see that they dream so high. Um, I think something else we also try to look for is I also observe the, the banter or, you know, the level of warmth between team members. So that can usually give me an indication on how much dependability there is between the team are usually stellar. Team, I would say would be, you know. You have a CEO who has pretty good business sense, preferably if they have any experience in business, like not just an MBA, but just an entrepreneurship experience. That's always a plus. Um, and then we have a CTO. So if there's a technical lead who is really the brains behind the magic of the product, and, you know, this is a person who can make sure that eventually when it's time to grow his technical team, he can make the right hires, either on a software level or on a hardware level, to really make sure that they're really cool iterations of the product in case they grow so big and they want to add in, you know, a few more product lines. And then thirdly, I think if there is a CSO or marketing lead as well, because it doesn't matter how amazing your product is, if you're not able to brand it and sell it well and get the idea out to the masses as well. Um, so I think usually for me that would be the healthy formula. Obviously, I think if the startup is in the very early stages, at the very least, at least the CEO and CTO would be a good starting point. What do you think about the solo man or woman bent with AI? Um, so it depends on what their growth strategy is. If the startup can do pretty well, bootstrapping and maybe, you know, they can work like an SME, you know, they can probably just live off of the revenue and that eventual revenue can just grow. That's fine. That solo founder can be enough. But I would say if the startup is trying to pursue the venture capital path and they want to go through, you know, the series A, B, C fundraising cycles, the kind of revenue growth is expected that is expected is more of a J curve. So between funding rounds, which is usually about 12 to 18 months, the startup really has to be able to demonstrate that capability to multiply their revenue at that scale. So for that to happen, I feel it might be too much of an unfair pressure and even responsibility to place on one person alone, because entrepreneurship is just so hard as it is. So I think that way it would be easier and more efficient to have a more robust team if you want to go through the VC funding path. I also like to ask people about their vision of 2050, and usually it's more maritime focus. But I think that maritime has become more exotic thanks to different technologies that are entering this space. And I would ask the question to you also not purely focusing on the maritime lens, but in general, like how would you craft that future from your portfolio? So normally, if you had asked me this at least five years ago, I would have been able to say something along the lines of, you know, I would love to see more technologies that marry Mary. Hardware and software together. Because generally it takes a lot of good luck and a lot of hard work and the right connections to be able to not just sell hardware effectively and grow that hardware sales really well, but to also make a data play on the software side. So even if you happen to have a slow year on the hardware side, the data play that you make could bring in a lot more money. But now with I think AI coming in, it's just changed everything, you know? Um, so much so right now, I think even every six months, everything just keeps changing. What revenue models we think are applicable to certain AI startups a few months ago might be void now. Um, and this is something I've even talked to certain AI researchers as well. You know, there was someone who said he was doing his master's thesis on something in LMS, and he was saying that even reports he was seeing published reports from two months ago was already void, which is irrelevant now. So I think what I would like to say, I guess for 2050, if I were to focus on maritime or even decarbonization, might be still good to try and incorporate AI in every facet as possible, whether it's crew health, whether it's fuel optimization, route optimization, but also more in materials discovery and the hardware side of things as well. So if AI can even help you formulate, oh, this is the right type of, um, insulation coating for a hull, you know, and AI can help come up with that formula. Formula maybe eight months faster. You know, that would be a great win. So I would love to see a lot more growth that's still marrying both. But it's hard to say AI I think it's just changing everything so fast. Yes, I know that maritime as a sector is not always preferred for the investors. And I wanted to ask you, why is that? So how can we send a message out there to try to change something about it. Is it its nature or is it some specific recipe is needed in order for something to be very valuable within maritime? How do you look at it? So I think there are a lot of factors at play here. Um, I wouldn't say it's only the VCs who think of maritime solutions as slow to adopt. I could say maybe from where I am at Plug and Play, we can actually see firsthand why certain maritime masses are very hesitant and maybe even risk averse to trialing something new. And the sensing I get is, you know, they do feel like there's a lot more at stake. There's cargo. There's billions and billions of revenue at stake. A lot of crew health as well. You know, that can be at jeopardy or something goes wrong. And because shipping constitutes such a huge portion of the world trade, I think it was about 92% or something of the world's trade. If something does not work out so well. It could be really disastrous to the world economy. And I think on top of that, the cost of ship building and the time it takes to also retrofit vessels and how much capital intensive that can be. These are all things that do make it very hard for, I think, ship owners to adopt new solutions. But what I would say is, I think I like to be a bit optimistic. I feel it is changing, um, depending on their innovation readiness. We have different maritime corporates who are ready to trial something. So what we do is we basically help them decide what the low hanging fruit is. And we think, okay, you know what? Maybe someday you, you can, you know, transition to ammonia power. But let's do something low hanging. That's easy. That has a path of least resistance. So you get the taste of innovation first. And then once you have a good innovation strategy in place, then there might be better markers for trialing newer pilots. So for that what we also try to do is on the startup side. You know, we do try to encourage more founders to to pitch their ideas, you know, out there to try and attend a lot of, you know, maritime events like Singapore Maritime Week and so on to try and even sign up for various accelerator incubator programs. You know, that's basically free PR for startups, right? So that all of these maritime focuses, always someone who is a bit more innovative and forward thinking at these maritime companies, who will want to keep a lookout for solutions. So as long as startups can make sure that they can be found by this, those such forward thinking people, I think it makes it easier to to bridge that connection. For investment side, I think it is not special to maritime, but generally most VCs will look at what's the ROI potential if this technology is deep tech in the sense that the incubation or gestation period to develop the technology is quite long, maybe 5 to 8 years. How can I make sure that by investing in this technology or investing in validating or commercializing this technology, that I can actually get some returns from that. So that depends on the technology as well. So if there are folks like myself who have that technical domain expertise, and then they're able to somehow be in the room of those decision makers and those maritime companies to really dilute and translate those very technical concepts in a very easy way for people to understand the benefit. I think we could really benefit from more folks like that. Bridging between both worlds. I worked a little bit at that intersection with startups that are trying to deploy pilots, and on the other side, working with Microsoft or Microsoft's corporate clients to try to identify problem statements and connect them to startups and run a program for that. What do you see is the quality or what are the qualities for the corporate folks that are ready to engage in such collaborations for the mission to be successful? Okay, so there's a lot of stalking involved, I would say. So I would say it's good to do a bit of due diligence on what history the corporate has right now in innovative projects. So if you even see companies like Wartsila or Schneider Electric, right? They have such a huge history of of piloting so many solutions. And then I think they might even acquire those startups afterwards and somehow incorporate that startup's value proposition in-house. So to me, you know, that gives a very strong signal that the corporate is very serious about not only keeping a lookout of what's innovative out there, but trying to improve their internal process and products as a result. So that's one. Secondly is it's good to also identify who the potential decision makers are. So some corporates, if they're a little bit more advanced than their innovation readiness, they might have a dedicated innovation team. So if you see titles like chief Innovation officer, sometimes even the investment team or the CVC arm of that corporate is already looking out for innovative solutions that could be a good fit for the be use. So those kind of folks are the best people to really reach out to and see, you know, what their risk appetite is like. If sometimes the the champion of the corporate side might not be the most knowledgeable, but they're open to still having a conversation and learning, that's still a great aspect to consider. And also I think thirdly, if you have events like related events about either decarbonization or sustainability or even accelerator programs, a lot of these corporates will send a team of folks to attend these events and even see what's out there, depending on the nature of the event, you know, there might even be panel talks and keynote talks where they invite, you know, at least 1 or 2 startup founders in the panel. The rest of the panel will be chief investment officers or chief innovation officers at that relevant corporate. So that way they get to really share what they're looking for, what are the pain points they're trying to solve. What they'd really love to see commercialize in the next few years. So I think by doing that sort of due diligence, a lot of startup founders can see, okay, you know what? I think these corporates already have gotten their toes with with something innovative. Maybe I have a better chance of working with those corporates. Um, there are some other corporates who are a little bit more early on in their innovation readiness. So, you know, they might need a little bit more help. And even assessing what's innovative out there, that could be a fit for them. But that's why we have companies like Plug and Play, for example. You know, we do try to, you know, help them out with their innovation strategy. And then so that way the corporate feels a bit more empowered to saying, hey, you know what? Maybe these I want to do something with. AI sounds very sexy, but I don't know how to make it work in my company. Being by being able to have them more open minded to talk to these founders. You know, we just hope that we can get more corporates out there. And is it is there something about startups that you would change maybe that's frustrating you? And maybe there's a not clear understanding of expectations and you're like, can you just if you would just do this one thing, this would increase the chance of success? Sure. Um, so what I would say is, I mean, I'm not naming any countries, but I think there are or maybe I could say in Silicon Valley, I find a lot of founders from their, um, very confident, um, extremely good at pitching their startups potential out there. Um, and that formula really works well as well. You see a lot of investors throwing a lot of money at really exciting startups, even if the product is not ready because they believe in the founder's vision. I think here in APAC there's a little bit more risk averse ness here. I think a lot of corporates and investors do tend to be a bit more cautious. So founders do have to work a little harder to displaying the value proposition in a way that doesn't seem so scary. So founders do have to de-risk their their technology quite a bit. But what I would say is, um, something that I feel maybe might be holding some founders back here is, I think, especially if it's a highly technical founding team, you know, PhD holders, very technical, created this amazing product out of a lot of years of hard work. I think sometimes it can be tricky if they get stuck in that loop of refining their product, and they just want to make the product really absolutely perfect before they even start talking to potential customers. So I think if, you know, for those folks, I would say, hey, you know, if you do want to scale up your technology quickly and you are aspiring to have some venture bankable folks you know behind. You might be good to not wait until your product is perfect and just try to start talking to customers or potential customers as early as possible. Even if you just have an MVP, just to get a good sense, check on how much interest you know you might have, because just those little insights you get can actually help you with your monetization strategy. Because if there are some corporates that say, oh, you know, I'm not so keen on maybe buying your product out loud, but I might want to lease it, you know, for a much cheaper price, then that insight can be really useful. If you need to make a few changes and then change your monetization strategy before it's too late. I'm now going a little bit more back to you, and imagine we were in Silicon Valley and now we're in a plane landing to Singapore. There are so many ships. Which one are you and why? You know, I think because I just have so many interests in so many things and depending on my mood. My answer might change. At first I thought maybe I could be a research vessel, because I would always be on the lookout for creating something meaningful for society. Um, taking the time to really make sure it's it's a wonderful product, iterating, having a wonderful multidisciplinary team of experts around me to really go out there and explore. But then I think a part of me also thinks maybe I could be an icebreaker vessel. Hmm. So, you know, those are the kind of vessels that go out there to really break the ice apart so that any vessels that come in after them, you know, have their way paved out for them. So for me, you know, in that sense, I think of it as if in my time here, you know, if I'm able to de-risk certain really, really exciting technologies on a technical level that I feel are just so amazing, they just need a little bit more TLC and investment to really grow. If I'm able to de-risk that and show that it's such a great product, then maybe, hopefully there'll be people after me who can follow on and really make sure that that innovation dream for scaling up that technology could be a reality. Is there any technology or startup that you want to promote now? Oh, I mean, off the top of my head, that's that's that's a lot of pressure. Uh, it can be generalist. I mean, right now, I would say there are a lot of technologies that might not be the hottest thing right now in maritime, which I think still deserves a lot of attention. For example, I think crew house, crew safety is also quite important. The potential ROI might not be too obvious at the start. I think it's something really worth investing in just because the pain point is so large. And what I mean by that is, right now there is an aging seafarer population, and there's just not many ways for a lot of that wisdom to be captured and analyzed and still be, um, to still take that forward, I think, with some of the newer, younger seafarers as well. I think there's a bit of AI that's trying to bridge that gap now. It'll take a while. And I think personally also for myself, which I can go off on a tangent and share a story. When I was at the maritime company, I had an opportunity to really go visit a vessel, and the team are surrounded with, you know, very well meaning X ship captains, you know, they said, oh, you know, Chani, I think I think it might be a bit too dangerous for you. You know, maybe, maybe you should skip this one. You know, we just really want to make sure you're safe and don't do anything dangerous. And I think the feminist in me was just saying, no, I can do it. I will go and board that ship. I don't care what it takes. I can make it happen. And I wanted to. I was just so stubborn. I wanted to show that. So finally they said, okay, okay, fine. You know, we'll have one seafarer come escort you. So what we did was we went to Marina South Pier, and we got on this little boat. And then I think the boat, I think, sailed a bit to where this vessel was anchored. Um, and unfortunately that day the waters were a bit choppy. So the boat was, you know, moving up and down and up and down. And then the pilot ladder was drawn out from the vessel, and normally the pilot ladder can actually even touch on the boat. So you can just, you know, just start climbing up the ladder. But in my case, there was still a bit of gap between the boat and the vessel. So it became very clear that, oh, I may have to take a leap and just jump and then grab onto the pilot ladder. And at that time my colleague had said, no, you know, it's fine. If you back out, it's fine. You know, you don't need to feel bad. But again, I think a part of me said I came this far. Like, let me. Let me do it. I had something to prove, I think. And I couldn't even have a running start. Because I was on a boat that I was moving up and down. So somehow I think I just decided, okay, let's just go for it. I took a deep breath. I took the biggest leap of my life, and I landed on the pilot ladder and grabbed on for dear life, and I had a backpack on me. So thankfully, even though I landed okay, um, someone else was a bit higher up in the pilot ladder, reached over and held my backpack, and they helped me up because I didn't have a strong enough arm strength to really, like, pull myself up yet and all. There was a really, you know, fun experience, and I did learn a lot. I also later on realized that even though this care for me came from a protective space pilot ladder, accidents actually can be very dangerous and life threatening, and quite a lot of seafarers have actually lost their lives. You know, because of just faults, you know, into the ocean between there and if the right safety procedures are not followed, it can just mean a lot of, you know, disastrous consequences. So for me, I realized, okay, the danger was quite okay, was quite prevalent. And I think right now, if there are more maritime companies trying to invest in better processes and better infrastructure to crew welfare and safety, even if it's not the most sexiest space right now, I think that would be a great space to see happening. Impactful. Yes. Impactful? Yes, exactly. I find these leaps very scary when I watch videos. I don't know how they do it. And even if so many things are lying and you just feel weak in your arms that day, you know you didn't have enough calves or something like, yeah, things can go wrong. So yeah, vouching for impact? Yes. I don't think I've done that jump ever again since, so it's good to have that as a one time experience for me. Yeah, well, to empathize and then you can pass on the message, but I think you're more of an icebreaker based on the story. Yeah, yeah. So I think for me, I'm very lucky in that the job I have, I get to do a little bit of everything. There's a little bit of startup mentoring, there's a little bit of consulting and advising for corporates on how to scale up or how to really redefine their innovation strategy. And then at the same time, I also get to decide which technologies are worth having some investment in. So I usually just try to put them in a need to have versus nice to have bucket. And I think in sustainability it gets more tricky because there are so many technologies out there that have wonderful impacts. Um, just the impact measurement, you know, all of those aspects. They're so great. But the ROI translation just might not be as clear. And it's sad to see sometimes a not a lot of those technologies get enough investment as they should. But unfortunately the unfortunately, the reality is right now, if you're able to communicate your product, shift away from nice to have and package it more as a need to have, we can see a lot more success in those technologies when it comes to really scaling up. And the what is that you're the most passionate about in your role at what you're doing right now in the next year? I guess for right now, I think, like I mentioned earlier, I just would love to see certain technologies. Maybe the rest of the world might be too scared of investing in because maybe the the scientific or technical aspects of it might seem a bit too complicated and hazy. But if I would love to. I would, I would love to be able to just be risk that technology and maybe showcase to folks that, hey, you know what? Yes, the technical side is a bit confusing to understand, but I promise it's a really good thing to have in your company and in your processes. Um, so I can't really name one particular technology at the moment. Right now, there's just so many in different sectors like that, but that's what I keep looking for. Um, now I will give you a bit of rest and I'll switch the hot seat to myself. Yes. Do you have any questions for me? Yes. Um, I guess I'd like to ask, based on everyone you've interviewed. You know, so far, I think there's been quite a few guests who shared their ideas on maritime digitization and maritime decarbonization. Um, has there been a certain pattern that you've noticed where the majority usually feels this way. I often ask this question how do you envision the future? Or even how would you describe the character of the industry? And I find that people don't push themselves out of the box enough. The answers that I get usually follow the reports and what is written as a roadmap to 2050, which I would love to see challenged more. And maybe that is coming from this innovation hat that I was wearing even before in corporates. But I always find that the best solutions come when you totally strip that away, the roadmap that someone else has put for you, and that maybe that is a way to find new, better solutions Especially looking into the AI boom and how that is enabling everything else to move so faster. I think 25 years is a good enough time to be totally out of the box and crazy. Do you find, in terms of, um, confidence levels or ambitious levels with newer innovations? Are you able to see a shift in maritime towards trying out more technologies, or do you still feel that there's a lot more room to grow? I think it has changed quite a lot in the past 3 to 5 years. Um, it's just the regulations have set such a fast pace for implementing digital solutions, standardizing things. Asking for a high level of transparency, real time data. And then that has shifted cultural Environment so that the decision makers were suddenly, I think, forced to also make these innovative decisions faster. And then that opened up the room for even approvals for certain hardware technologies that otherwise would take, I think, very long time. And then again, back to regulations, because the regulations kind of put the the goal somewhere out there, then that is allowing hardware to be tested faster and tried out. And there's understanding that not all the initial projects will immediately work, that they are not necessarily for ROI, but actually to learn, for teams to get upscaled, you know, so they're perceived more as an investment. And I don't think that it has been such an environment previous in not at this space. So that's one of the reasons why I actually do this podcast right now, because I find it's such an interesting moment in time, and I wanted to capture different experiences about it. Yeah. One thing I also agree with you on is innovation can really trickle down. And what I've noticed is that a lot of times innovation can start in the government level. So, you know, when we see certain countries, um, where the government is already very, um, that country first. Right. So for Singapore, it'll be Singapore first. And we find that Singapore is done so well because, you know, there's been a lot of incentives and subsidies that help make it cheaper and easier for corporations to really test out and validate exciting new technologies. Um, and the countries that have that already driven forward at a regulatory level, um, really expand the scope for innovation across various industries and sectors. Um, and then how that trickles down is once you have more masses and corporates redefining their own innovation strategies, and then they have their own policies internally encouraging employees to come up with really exciting solutions or ideas. Maybe they might even encourage the employee to do a spin off and a venture, build their thing and set up their own company. Maybe they might even acquire, you know, said solution from various startups. And then to eventually see that trickle down to more and more founders feeling more empowered and confident to even incorporate new companies and build really exciting products, and to have the universities also, in turn, encourage the the adoption or the creation of these technologies, either by giving free lab spaces or free access to certain testing facilities. And I think having this circle is really important. So that's when you have this loop that's just constantly reinforcing yourself, enforcing. And you know, sooner than you know, you have a wonderful innovation infrastructure in a company. So it's really, really important to see I think everybody do their part to try and drive innovation forward and just de-risk all the scary technologies out there. I really love how you mentioned the universities, because I think that's one thing that Singapore does really well, that activation of the ecosystem so that not only they make it more affordable for corporates to deploy certain projects, but they make these institutions and the utilities easily accessible to the startups that are trying to optimize it to their cost. I know before I was a founder of a hardware company and how much it cost us to do one scan. And by being able to use the facilities of the research institutions and universities to do that, it helps a lot. And another thing that I think Singapore is really great, that is it's so easy to connect to people. It's so easy to talk to pretty much anyone in a corporate if you just reach out to them. And there's this willingness from the executive level to also learn what's happening on the ground. And there's no hierarchy in that sense that I think is really special to Singapore and the the small size of it, that becomes a it's superpower in a way. Yeah. My favorite networking events are the ones that I feel are most memorable to me. And, you know, hold a special place in my heart are basically the networking events where job titles or seniority doesn't matter is just a bunch of people in the room sharing in a very excited way. What are the newest technologies they read about or they just found out about? Or somebody explained something really cool to them and everyone just sharing all of those things, because I just love the energy and vibe from those sort of conversations. I knew I always learned so many new things from each of those networking events. Well, with that, I would like to invite everyone to go for more of these events, and also to thank you for being here and sharing your story, your insights, and hopefully some of the advices that would be helpful to the founders out there, um, trying to find their path and uh, looking forward to more of this in the future. Thank you. I had such a wonderful time and fun time speaking with you. Gordana, it's a it's a pleasure and an honor to be here. Thank you. Thank you. So that's it. Yay!

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Gordana Ilic

Host