Why Disconnection Is Hurting Us All | Morag Barrett

Are you feeling disconnected at work—even though you spend most of your week there? In this episode, Anthony Craiker sits down with executive coach, leadership expert, and bestselling author Morag Barrett to talk about why success in business is about relationships, but success in life is about connection. Morag shares why so many of us are experiencing a “workplace connection crisis,” what it means to have (and be) a friend at work, and how authentic connections improve not only job satisfaction but also business results. You’ll hear practical strategies from her research and books Cultivate the Power of Winning Relationships and You, Me, We on creating an “ally mindset,” building meaningful connections, and avoiding toxic dynamics at work. If you’ve ever felt isolated, disengaged, or just “fine” when you know you’re not, this conversation will show you how to strengthen relationships, recharge your energy, and find deeper fulfillment at work and beyond. 

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Transcript

Interview with Morag Barrett

Anthony: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody, to another episode of Fulfilling Work Meaningful Life.

I'm your host, Anthony Craiker, and I'm joined today by Morag Barrett executive coach speaker leadership expert and bestselling author. Morag. Thanks so much for coming on the show today. 

Morag: Hey Anthony. I'm excited for the conversation. 

Anthony: So, Morag, what is a recent meaningful experience that you've had?

Morag: I'm just gonna go with, it was last week. So last week I had the opportunity to travel to DC, Washington, DC and I live in Colorado to attend a conference, but also to spend some time with professional colleagues and essentially girlfriends that I have made over the years. And I'll be honest, Anthony, last Tuesday before I left, I was like.

Why am I traveling halfway across the country? I am too busy. I don't have time for this, and it is the most meaningful 48 hours I have spent. [00:01:00] Exhausting. But it reminded me of my own mantra, which is Success in business is about. Relationships. Yeah. But success in life is about connection. Mm-hmm. And that trip to dc that 48 hours in the room and in the presence with those colleagues just lit me up.

And the sharing of ideas, the just hanging, the being present. That was the meaningful experience that I had last week. 

Anthony: That's lovely. That's a great experience. I'm glad you had that. Yeah. Sometimes what it, it's, it's funny how things work out where we don't want to go do something that we, you know, signed up to do or need to do for work, and it ends up.

You know, being a great experience. Mm-hmm. So I'm glad, glad that was the case for you. Well, I am excited to talk to you about this topic today. Your book and then from a broader perspective, workplace connection. Yeah. Books, I should say plural. Work Workplace Connection. And I think it's a really important topic 'cause I, I think there's a lot of [00:02:00] people out there who feel.

Unfulfilled in their work because of this, this lack of connection in, in the workplace, whether it's with their boss or supervisor or coworkers. And you go as far to say that we're in a, a workplace crisis. We, that we have a crisis connection. Why do you say that? 

Morag: I think, well, I think all of the statistics.

That I am reading are heartbreaking. In fact, I've been working on a brand new keynote. I'm really excited for this, which addresses this whole challenge. And it's titled, you Don't Need More Meetings, you need More Moments. 

Anthony: Mm. And 

Morag: why am I writing it? Because you've just mentioned there that sense of.

Disconnection is endemic, and recent researchers show that 76% of us at some point or another in the last few weeks have felt disconnected from our work, disconnected from our colleagues, and even disconnected. From ourselves and who we are and [00:03:00] our own research here at SkyTeam in support of our two books, you, me, we, why We All Need a Friend at Work and how to show up as One and cultivate the power of winning relationships.

We've had more than a thousand leaders from around the world. Take our ally mindset profile. And I'll give the information later on. You, the people listening to this conversation are, are invited to do the same. But the sad truth is that one in five, 20% of those leaders say that they have no friends at work.

Not one, not one coffee chat buddy. Not one conference. Wingman or wing woman. Not one. Oh my God, I can't believe what just happened. Do you have a minute? Colleague. Yeah. And that is the the problem that we need to fix because it's impacting our health, it's impacting our happiness, and it's impacting the bottom line of businesses every single [00:04:00] day.

Anthony: So how do we fix it? What do we do? 

Morag: Well, I know what we've been trying, and I'm sure that everybody here has been invited to complete an engagement survey or an employee satisfaction survey. 

Anthony: Mm-hmm. But I 

Morag: don't know about you. The last thing I want to do when I'm feeling disconnected. Frustrated is to fill in another survey about how disconnected and frustrated I'm 

Anthony: right.

Morag: So we are asking for the feedback and Gallup has been doing this for 20 years and we're now at a 10 year low for highly engaged. Employees. Oh wow. So the numbers are going the wrong way. And what have clients and what have other organizations been doing? Well, they've, they've tried the team building Trust falls.

They've tried the increased snack room equipment and biscuits, which is fine if you're going into the office. But if you're like me and we're working in a hybrid way that only, you know, [00:05:00] impacts a few of the employees, we've tried revamping. The values. We've tried training and none of them have moved the needle.

And I think the mistake we're making is that we're focusing on meaning and metrics. IE, the low hanging, hanging fruit, what can we measure? And we're losing sight of the importance of human connection. And so in my new keynote that I'm working on, I'm talking about a concept that I call meaningful, and that's full with a double L Meaningful connectivity.

Mm. And meaningful connectivity is the environment, the mindset, the skillsets that allow me to reconnect with myself first, and that leaves me energized. Because when I am energized and running with a full tank, then I can be more present and then mentor, coach [00:06:00] and give to others to help fill them up.

Yeah, and up until now, I think we've been trying to do it the other way around. The organization has been trying to fill us up, but it has to start from within. 

Anthony: Interesting. Is there a correlation at all between the trend tr recent transition in the last few years to hybrid and remote work? And these trends that we're seeing of not being connected in the workplace?

Morag: I think it exacerbated it, and if anything it's it, the return to work or we've always been working, the return to office, the return to three dimensional interactions has only just exacerbated the gap. Hmm. 'cause here's the challenge with the camera, and I know I've done it early in the pandemic. You know, when we were feeling stressed and, and overwhelmed and fearful for what it might happen, we would show up on the camera, [00:07:00] you know, business on top, PJs on the bottom.

Yep. And do what I call fake perky. So I could show up and go, Anthony, oh yeah, this is great, and have a great conversation. But when I hit the big red button and hung up, I'd be like, oh, I can't even, and you would never know. 

Anthony: Yeah, at 

Morag: least you would never know if you didn't. Slow down and create the space to not just ask, how are you doing?

But to actually truly listen for the honest answer because the most dangerous phrase, well, let's see if you can guess it. If I were to ask you in passing, how are you, Anthony? What's your stock answer? 

Anthony: I'm doing fine. 

Morag: Fine. Okay. And that's it. The, I'm fine. It's the equivalent of ICU, except we don't, it's the sticking plaster over the gaping wound.

Yeah. And we leave it at that. And what I'm saying is we [00:08:00] need to slow down and not just take, I'm fine. It's the how are you really? And it's doing things like you did to open this conversation, taking a moment to find out what is the most meaningful moment that you've had recently. 

Anthony: Mm-hmm. 

Morag: And listening to that answer as opposed to assuming that everything is okay, that I'm fully engaged, that I'm fully present, as opposed to.

Doing fake perky. 

Anthony: Yeah. So striving for authenticity in our connections. Yeah. You talk about, in the book in your yumi, we book you talk about the ally mindset. 

Morag: Yes. 

Anthony: Can you tell us a little bit about that? 

Morag: Well, this goes back to why am I feeling disconnected or lonely? And I felt it, I felt it in the middle of a coffee shop in Manhattan, surrounded by millions.

I felt it delivering a keynote in front of a thousand leaders. I felt it sitting on my sofa at home surrounded by friends and family. So we are not all immune from this, but what we [00:09:00] found in our research is that there are five practices that truly lend themselves to having and being a friend at work.

And that's not me just having and being a friend to you. It's having and being a friend to myself. And the foundational practice is abundance and generosity. This is the one that comes the most easily for me, it's my hardwiring, my DNA, my operating system for the world. I am always scanning for. How can I be of service?

How can I help you? How can I help you to be a better leader to overcome this challenge, to have a great podcast conversation. What I learned to my own cost is that that can become an overplayed strength, because when I'm saying yes to everybody else, but not setting guardrails for me, then as I have experienced in the past, I can overcommit.[00:10:00]

Anthony: I 

Morag: can be saying yes when my calendar is begging for mercy and dry deprioritize my own needs. So one of the, the actions that I've taken now is to ensure that I'm scheduling my gym routine. I used to always follow to the bottom of the list. I didn't have time for it. Now I schedule it and heaven forbid I actually schedule it during the work day.

Three o'clock in the afternoon I go to Orange Theory. So in you, me, we and in the Ally mindset profile. People and leaders are finding out, well, what are those five practices? Which of them come naturally to you? And where might you need to give extra care and attention and turn the dial up or down in order to have that friend at work and be a friend at work?

Anthony: What would you say to somebody? 'cause I, I think. We've all probably encountered people like this, and this isn't me necessarily, but what would you say [00:11:00] to somebody who says, I don't really care about having friends at work. I just want to check in at eight, leave at five, keep my head down and get my paycheck and go home.

What? What's your response to that? 

Morag: Okay, so don't call them friends, but what you do need are colleagues that you know have your back. You need colleagues who will roll up their sleeves and help you out in a pickle. Because here's the thing, work is not a solo sport, even as an entrepreneur or a solopreneur.

Mm-hmm. Your success is dependent on others. And so it's in your interest to invest in those relationships so that you can deliver the results that you are being held accountable for so that you can reach your own career goals and to be honest, just so that you can have a little bit more fun at work versus it [00:12:00] feeling like an endless slog.

Anthony: Yeah, 

Morag: so when I talk about having a friend at work, a couple of things come to mind. One is, this isn't necessarily best friends for life, though many turn into that, nor does it mean you need to come home and hang out after work and meet my mom, and all of that sort of stuff. Mm-hmm. It just means that for the next six months for this job, for this project, we are in lockstep and we are aligned around what we're trying to achieve together.

And the other reason for the title of our book, Gallup, who've been researching employee engagement for decades, of the 12 questions that determine whether or not you have a highly engaged employee or if you are engaged. Question 10 is, do I have a best friend at work? And they continually get pushback on this.

And to be honest, when I first read it, I was like, huh? A bit like the example you gave, you know? Yeah. I was in banking at the time. This is a business, it's not [00:13:00] personal. Well, there's two things. Business is personal. The relationships matter. And what we've done in you me, we as reframe it from a passive, do I have a friend at work?

Which allows me to go, well, no, because Anthony's got the better podcast. He gets all the glamorous projects and I just get, you know, the drex, it turns it from do I have a friend at work to am I a friend at work? It's back to you have to go first. You have to be one in order to have one. 

Anthony: That's a real paradigm shift, and, and I think it.

It, it's a really interesting way of, of looking at it because it, it puts the responsibility on us as individuals, right? Mm-hmm. To, to make work a, a better experience overall for, for everybody else. 

Morag: Absolutely. Now, the key there though, is that you don't become a doormat. It doesn't mean you have to put up with toxic behaviors, but what it does do is you move through the five practices.

You move from abundance and generosity. Do I care about your [00:14:00] success as much as my own? Then we get to connection and compassion, which is okay. So tell me a little bit about your journey. What lights you up? What drains your batteries? What are the hidden talents that we're not yet tapping into that get beyond the name tag and the job title?

Yeah, and then from connection and compassion, you get to courage and vulnerability and candor and debate, both of which allow for creativity, innovation. Informed risk taking and generally move us quicker towards success. And when you add the fifth practice, the capstone of them all action and accountability.

Wow. Now you have a team of allies. Now you have a team that is pulling together versus pulling apart. 

Anthony: In your work on this, as you've, as you've worked with companies and leaders and so forth, have you seen any evidence or, or is there any data that applying these [00:15:00] principles does actually increase the bottom line for the company, and perhaps more importantly for our listeners, does, is there any evidence that it increases their, their own compensation?

Morag: So Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I can happily provide links to all sorts of articles and research. However, the most striking one that comes to mind for me is that we were working with an oil and gas company and we're asked to create a safety workshop, a safety leadership program. Now, this wasn't an osha. Type safety leadership of put on your safety goggles, et cetera.

Though the fact that people weren't wearing them and weren't following the rules as di diligently as they might, was one of the reasons we'd been asked to put this together. 

Anthony: Mm-hmm. 

Morag: But what we did was, was design the program around the concepts within, cultivate the power of winning relationships because.

Our experience has shown. The more we know, like and trust each other, the more [00:16:00] likely and willing we are to call each other out, especially if we're taking shortcuts that might cause us to risk life and limb. 

Anthony: Mm. 

Morag: And so we designed this program and delivered it. And you can imagine we were worried it was gonna feel a little too touchy feely, but it literally transformed.

Relationships on each of the remote sites, and it resulted in an 18% reduction in reportable injuries. 

Anthony: Oh wow. That's huge. So for 

Morag: me, that says it all. 

Anthony: Yeah. 

Morag: It's not just people were having more fun getting to know their colleagues. They were saving life and limb. 

Anthony: Wow. Yeah. That's, that's a, that's huge.

That's, that's amazing. You, you talked a little bit about tox toxicity in the workplace. Mm-hmm. Toxic bosses, toxic colleagues. I, I think that's a term that gets thrown around a lot these days. The term toxic. Mm-hmm. In, in this context, when we talk about a toxic boss. [00:17:00] What exactly does that mean? What, what, what, what yeah.

What is a toxic boss? 

Morag: So in cultivate the power of winning relationships, I introduce four relationship dynamics that we all experience at some point in our careers. And the best friend at work is essentially the ally, the unconditional we focused. Got your back, fun to work with, but will also give you the kick in the pants when you need it, and the feedback you need to hear.

Not just the feedback you want to hear. 

Anthony: Mm-hmm. 

Morag: You then have supporters. They're fair weather friends, they're fun to be around. They look and feel like allies until the going gets tough, because then it's crickets. They're not gonna put their head over the parapet and take personal risk for you until they, they understand that risk.

Anthony: Yeah. 

Morag: Then you get rivals. Rivals are the elbow jockeying, Jekyll and Hyde when it suits their agenda there for you. And when it doesn't, they're against you [00:18:00] in the short term. That can help us raise our game because leaders tell me what they do is they proofread the PowerPoint, they practice, they rehearse.

But whilst that is all good effort, it is not focused on the business decision at hand and in long-term, results will suffer. And then the fourth dynamic is what I call the adversary, which correlates with the, your question around toxic bosses, toxic colleagues. And I do think that that adversarial behavior, it's an unconditional relationship.

What you see is what you're gonna get. And it's a me first, their agenda. So all you know is you're butting heads all the time. You're feeling intimidated. Maybe they're interrupting and cutting you off in meetings. Here's the thing about toxic bosses, toxic colleagues, very few, if any, wake up in the morning wanting to get [00:19:00] that moniker or that label.

Often we are using that label of toxic boss as an excuse for not sitting down and having the candid conversation that says, are our goals aligned? 

Anthony: Hang 

Morag: on, you may be hitting it out of the ballpark and closing all of these sales deals. Yay. Go you. But at what cost? It's clean up on R 13 with all the damaged relationships and the fact that people don't wanna work with you.

So we need to hold those folks accountable to give them the feedback that what they're doing is having. Maybe intended, but usually unintended consequences. And then their choice is to step up and adjust their approach. 

Anthony: Yeah, 

Morag: and if we're on the receiving end of it, my advice is if you're on the receiving end and you've had that feedback.

Breathe. You are a good human being, [00:20:00] but now you have a choice to change how you show up to make micro changes in your style and approach that can repair your reputation. 

Anthony: Yeah. 

Morag: If on the other hand you are working for a colleague that is continually butting heads with you, first of all, look at your own approach.

What can you do? What are you willing to do to change the outcome? Are you willing to step up to that tough conversation? And then if it doesn't change, you have a choice not to stay in an unsafe environment or an unsafe relationship, but choose to stay or choose to find a different team in the organization or maybe a different organization where you can thrive.

Anthony: Yeah. The 

Morag: key is you're not trapped and that conversation. That's the first step to affecting change. 

Anthony: Just gotta be have, have the courage to sit down. Yeah. And, and be candid with, with the person. Mm-hmm. That's great, great advice. What, from a [00:21:00] leadership or management perspective, how, how can a leader or manager kind of create this environment where.

Genuine friendships or, or authentic relationships can form in the workplace. What, what can a leader do? 

Morag: So quick wins. Instead of jumping onto your next Zoom team's, Google Hangout meet, meeting and asking, where's the project? What are you doing? What's the status? Take just two minutes to ask. How are you doing?

What was your most meaningful experience recently at SkyTeam? We start every meeting and have done now for nearly 10 years. And I thought this was so hokey when we started, but it turns out it's got legs. It's sticky. We start every meeting with ripples and joys, and we all take turns to share a joy, something that's made us happy and it energized us this week, but also a ripple, something that we may have completed or moved forward.

So my [00:22:00] case for this week, it will be finalizing the script for my new keynote. I am so excited for that one. So that's the ripple and it's a little bit of the joy, but as you asked, I haven't seen my team since I came back from Washington, DC so I'll also be sharing some of the joys and the insights from those conversations and that experience.

So schedule the time, 'cause connection happens in the gaps between the work and in the olden days, that would be in the break room on the walk to and from the meeting in the elevator as we're heading to and from the office. Mm-hmm. But now when we're working in a hybrid environment, we just need to get creative.

Start scheduling the walking and talking meetings and the time and the space so that we can all feel seen, heard and valued. 

Anthony: Yeah, that's, that's such a profound insight. You know, it on, on a personal level in my. My real job. I, I wish I was [00:23:00] podcasting full-time, but not, not quite yet. I, I'm an attorney and I, I work for a national law firm and we have attorneys all over the country, and I tell people I've been doing remote work since before.

It was cool to, to do remote work. I've been, I've been doing it for over 15 years, and so I work outta my home office. And our, our firm's headquarters is based in Utah, and I've been extraordinarily blessed because I've, I've. Had great bosses and great colleagues, but one of the things that we've always done when we have virtual meetings is we chitchat at the beginning.

And it's, it's casual and, and over the years, I mean, I've become friends with these people that I rarely see in real life. You know, but when we do see each other in real life, it's great. In fact, I was just out there on a vacation visiting some family in Utah. Set up a lunch with my bosses, not because I wanted to suck up to them or, or you know, be seen, it was because I, I genuinely wanted to see 'em and, you know, see how they're doing.

So, you know, that I, I [00:24:00] think those small things, like you say, can really make a big difference over time in the workplace. I, I love that 

Morag: and I'm so glad you shared that example, because I think there is a myth that you can't build deep relationships through the camera. 

Anthony: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And before the 

Morag: pandemic, I might have.

Can't somewhat aligned through that. But then again, I remember to, when I was a child having a pen pal in Australia, when we wrote on the very, very thin paper and creating a relationship with that person who was halfway around the world and I never got to see, 'cause we didn't yet have. The technology we have today.

Anthony: Yeah. And so 

Morag: I call BS on that. It is a choice, as you've described, a choice to have the small talk that leads to the big decisions and the deeper relationships. Choosing when you go to visit the office, not just fly in, do your meeting and leave, but creating opportunities to bring people together, whether it's breakfast, lunch, or the perennial happy hour.

Anthony: [00:25:00] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, this is fascinating stuff and I, I, I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your, your expertise and knowledge with our listeners. I think there's a lot of great insight that our listeners can get from this in terms of creating more connection in the workplace and hopefully finding more fulfillment in our work.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause I think that's so important. 'cause we spend so many hours a day working, right? So many hours a week. It's a, it's such a huge part of our lives, those of us who, who work full time. So it's really, really important. Where can people find you and connect with you and get your books and, and all that?

Morag: Well, first off, I promised I would share the information for the Ally Mindset profile. So I invite anybody who is curious. To get their complimentary profile by going to SkyTeam, SKYE, SkyeTeam.cloud/Youmewe 

Anthony: okay. You 

Morag: can then get either of my books, cultivate the power of winning relationships and you, [00:26:00] me, we why we all need a friend at work and had to show up as one written with my friends at work, Eric and Ruby.

From your favorite book retailer and they are both available in audiobook and Kindle too. Awesome. And then following my work, connect with me on LinkedIn. It's me that replies to all messages. It's me that's writing the articles that you'll read there. And follow us at SkyeTeam, skyeteam.com 

Anthony: Awesome. And we'll put all those links in our show notes for our listeners so they can find you and check out the, the free assessment and go, go buy your books.

They, they should. This is, this is great stuff. So, well, thank you so much Morag It is a pleasure talking to you and I really appreciate you coming on the show today. 

Morag: It's been fun. You've energized me.