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Lets Talk About It
At "Let's Talk About It," we invite guests who are change agents and heroes from our community to share their lived experiences and reflect on the milestone moments that have either propelled or diverted them. What sets us apart? We anchor our conversations in two foundational pillars of the Black community: books and music. Through this unique lens, we capture, entertain, and inform our audience, creating a rich tapestry of stories and insights that resonate and inspire.
Lets Talk About It
The Melodic Journey of Career Change and Inclusion
Get ready to level up your job hunt with the latest Let's Talk About It episode!
TJ Lowery and Shatema Gresham drop some serious gems on creating a resume that beats the AI filters and tells your story in a real, authentic way. From making a killer first impression—starting at the front desk—to using positive energy to stand out, they’ll show you how to shine as the next superstar hire. Shatema shares how keeping your resume short and sweet keeps hiring managers hooked, while TJ’s practical tips will help you crush your next career move.
We also dive into how to make diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) feel real and relatable for young undergrads at Arizona State University. TJ brings it home with stories from his own journey into law, inspired by family, mentors, and favorite music artists—from Future to Mary J. Blige. You’ll get a fresh take on how inclusive environments can create real change and build momentum toward a better workplace.
And if you’ve ever wondered how career pivots feel like the rhythm of a great song, you’re in for a treat. TJ opens up about navigating competitive, male-dominated industries with confidence and the freedom that comes from embracing change. It’s all about recognizing your transferable skills and trusting the process.
Tune in for this inspiring convo, and don’t forget to subscribe, like, and follow us for more stories and real talk!
Welcome to let's Talk About it, the podcast where we shine a light on the change agents and everyday heroes who shape our communities. Here we dive deep into the lived experiences of our guests, exploring the milestone moments that have either propelled them forward or changed their paths moments that have either propelled them forward or changed their paths. We anchor every conversation in two foundational pillars of the Black community books and music. Through this unique lens, we capture, entertain and inform, weaving a rich tapestry of stories and insights that resonate, inspire and spark meaningful dialogue. Join our host, tj Lowry and Shatima Grisham, as they engage with thought leaders and community change agents to uncover the rich tapestry of experiences that shape our lives. Get ready for insightful discussions, unfiltered perspectives and the celebration of Black excellence. Let's talk about it of black excellence.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about it. Hey everyone, and welcome to let's Talk About it the podcast. I'm your girl, tj. Right back at you for another episode. I'm so excited to dive into this episode, but before we do that, you know I've got to introduce my fabulous, fabulous co host, shatima. How you doing, girl? Hey, tj, yeah, so what's up with you lately? What you got going on, what we don't have going on?
Speaker 3:in the streets.
Speaker 2:It's always something, what I wanted to share with the people. You know we talked about PTMG a couple shows ago. Um, your forte is recruiting it. It is, and we are HR practitioners. Hit them up with about three tips from a recruiting standpoint that you would advise for their resume or for their job search. What's your top three tips you'd tell them to make sure that they've got together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely so. Yes, my sweet spot is talent management recruitment. I've been doing that for over 20 years. The first thing I would probably say on your resume to get around AI that the job you're seeking needs to be infiltrated in the resume. Systems are using some sort of AI and they're looking for specific keywords and if those keywords are not on the resume then it's not going to pull up in the search. So if you want to be a manager, you better put something like I've managed this process. If you're looking for consulting, you need to have some of those buzzwords in there. A good trick is take their job descriptions and incorporate some of the words on their job descriptions. Usually the first three bullet points on the job descriptions are their must-haves. The longer the job descriptions are, the preferred or, you know, nice-haves are going to be lower.
Speaker 3:But the things that they really want are usually going to be in their first three bullet points, and I definitely would take some of those words and put it on your resume. Bullet points, and I definitely would take some of those words and put it on your resume. The next thing I always tell people is, when you are interviewing, most hiring managers are looking at energy. So if you can go in there with good energy, big energy, be engaged, ask questions, For some reason, as leaders we believe energy will mimic production and so, even if your resume is not, you know, very strong or maybe a little skinny, if you go in the interview with good energy, high energy, good morning hello and engage with them, for some reason we think that that equates to a superstar hire. So I tell people to increase their energy, make sure their resume has those keywords in there.
Speaker 3:And then the last tidbit that I tell people is when you are called in for an interview, speak to that front desk receptionist person. They hang out with their hiring manager all the time. They see them every morning, they speak to them, and so if you come in, the interview starts when you walk in the building. It starts with that person who's sitting at the desk. If you engage them and say hello when you leave, I guarantee you they're going to be like that. Tj was in here. She was so nice, she told me good morning, she sat there and spoke to me. Are you going to hire her? And we hear that as hiring managers. So I tell people, if you get the interview, whoever's at that front desk, whoever welcomes you in, make sure that you engage that person and know that your interview starts then, because when they go to the break room or they see that hiring manager later, they're going to ask you know about you coming in here or whatever conversations you have, so don't take your cell phone calls in that lobby and things like that.
Speaker 2:I like it. Those are some good tips. Now this is the recruiter, the specialist in talent recruiting and talent act. I personally don't like it and I don't like to recruit because I am an energy person to your point and I feel like that energy one, um, authenticity is the highest or vibration of energy you can feel right. When people are authentic, we can feel that. That's why we want that and a lot of times, you know, early on, I can kind of gauge based on their responses, based on what I've seen, um, and so I don't really want to go through the hour and.
Speaker 2:I know that's bad, but I just don't enjoy it as much as I used to. I do enjoy the people aspect, but I want to just jump off of some of those tips. Your resume is your story. Right. It should tell a story about who you are. Four page resumes I'm not interested, right? I really don't care how long you've been in the industry. There should be a way that you can condense that to some solid information, because now you have AI, you know to get through recruiting, You've got talent acts and then you still have me, the hiring manager, and we don't want to spend a lot of time on the resume. So make it pop out for us quick and easy, because you don't have to put everything in there. You'll be able to tell me your story, but give me some impact and make your story really speak to who you are. So my two is that and keeping it short and then interview.
Speaker 2:Learn something about the company, right. When people come in and they have never looked us up. You know, with all the social spaces people are in, you can go find the YouTube. You know you need to know a little bit about the brand that you're working for. I don't need you to know everybody, but you should at least have done a little bit of homework. And then please, please, know your compensation strategy right? We know what the job is posted for. You should also know where you want to be, and so you should be able to have a very healthy discussion about the salary. I'm not saying make a decision in the interview, but there should be a space for you to ask and talk about. You know your desired salary. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about some HR resume and interviewing tips before we get into today's show. But now drum roll, please. Who are you introducing?
Speaker 3:us to Shatima, Absolutely, TJ. Well, I am excited we have a wonderful guest today. Her name is Whitney Harvey, CEO of Gen 38 and the self-coached lawyer. She is an esteemed business strategist, consultant and motivational speaker who integrates legal expertise, wellness and practice. And on top of all that let's go over these nice credentials that she holds she holds her Juris Doctorates from ASU's University Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law and is pursuing her doctorate in philosophy and general psychology, with a specialization in industrial and organizational psychology. Welcome to the let's Talk About it podcast, Welcome, welcome. Thank you, ladies, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:And looking beautiful as ever Very very appropriately dressed for today's show, so I'm excited for you to bring that big, big energy right. Yes, so one of the things before we jump in, I do need to know what is Gen 38? I've not heard about Gen 38. So tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so Gen 38 is honestly, you know, I have the self-coached lawyer for lawyers and legal professionals and I'm talking about breaking down barriers and systemic barriers on the legal side of things and I just found that people were really gravitating towards that message but they thought, well, it's only for lawyers. So I'm like, ok, I need a lawyer, another company or business that really matches that same energy for community advocates, people that are doing community building and you know a lot of that is happening in corporations.
Speaker 4:So Gen 38 was this kind of like birthing process of me. In this passionate era of this is my true passion. I want to talk about community healing and that's where I really bring the breath work to community events. So that's where I really bring the breath work to community events. Okay, so that's gen 38. I do a lot and talk a lot about similar things, but this is truly heavy on the healing and I'm leading with healing, not just burnout love that.
Speaker 2:So we brought you out in June for one of our most well-attended events, um DEI town hall, which we did experience some of the work. I take it that's Gen 38. And then I also want to know what is your thoughts on DEI now, with everything that has, I see the deep inhale. I need to know, like you got out in these streets and you were doing the work explaining about DEI, telling us why it's so difficult for them to buy in. And so now what is your thoughts on what's happening, whitney?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know it's been difficult.
Speaker 4:I even found myself like, at the end of you know the summer I had done a whole round of panels on DEI and by the end of it one of the last presentations was literally me like tearing up up, getting choked up in the middle of it and I knew I'm like, okay, this is time for me to take a little pause, like I use the summer to really take a break away from speaking on those topics, from immersing in it, because you know that's our lived experiences.
Speaker 4:So then to try to process some of it and talk about it publicly can be really difficult. And then I'm teaching a class now at ASU ASU and the business law undergraduate program and it's legal aspects of diversity in the workplace. So I'm trying to teach that to, you know, 20 to 22 year olds and that's been another challenge for me of trying to make it relevant to them. So you know I don't have like any pushback really on like that we see socially around the topics, but it's more convincing to the relevancy because they haven't had any life experience. So that's a whole nother level. But I look at it as an opportunity because there isn't such this resistance, there's an open-mindedness around it and just a curiosity and I can work with that.
Speaker 4:I can work with curiosity, but you know people being completely shut down to it. I don't want to be in the business of convincing. Yeah so right now, I think my personally. For my mental and emotional well-being, I want to go to spaces where they recognize already the importance of DEI. I'm not trying to go into spaces to convince about it Right.
Speaker 2:yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know we were trying to look at governance around. You know, ai, to protect the work DEI has done. We were very concerned that the bias is in there, and so you know, we really still need to preserve what we have, and so I like that strategy to stop focusing on turning people and focus on those who are already there. Maybe we can build enough, you know, momentum in that space to bring people in. So really just needed to tap into that a little bit. I do want to jump into our icebreaker call let's um or let's talk about it, so we'll ask you a question and just give us the answer quick. First thought that comes to mind um, this one favorite hip-hop artist. Who's your favorite hip-hop artist?
Speaker 2:future oh okay, controversial over there, love that.
Speaker 3:To piggyback off of that, what's your favorite hip-hop music video?
Speaker 4:Video, probably, and the song I can't think of, but with Lil' Kim with the different wig. Oh yeah, crush on you Crush on you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, iconic, yes, wait isn't that the one DJ Envy's daughter did for halloween, which was controversial? She did all her looks she did, and so that was a big old um, what's the best r&b album of all time for you? Um mary j blige oh, I love that it's one of my favorites.
Speaker 4:Yes, we've heard that it's still like a classic you can play it Start to end.
Speaker 3:I am team Mary. Yes Pop song that always gets you dancing.
Speaker 4:Pop song, I would say Britney Spears Toxic.
Speaker 2:Ooh Right, toxic, I heard it when you said it no, no, no. We won't dance, what's um heavy in rotation on your playlist um, I like jt from the city girl.
Speaker 4:Okay, um, doji. Who else I like doji? Yes, for sure she can dance.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm late to discovering her, but I love the music, yeah I've just discovered her too, so we might be, but it's never too late, because she'd be out there getting it yes, she is out there, yes in your opinion, what's the most underrated artists?
Speaker 3:Ooh.
Speaker 4:You know I'm going to okay twofold. So, doja Cat, I would say current and then historical. I was always a Bone Thugs-N-Harmony fan. And I just think they were visionaries before their time because I still listen to their music. I'm like that was so cutting edge, but they didn't get the credit. Yeah, we weren't ready, yeah, we weren't ready.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What is your favorite genre of music? What's your go-to Hip-hop? For sure Rap. I would say Okay.
Speaker 4:So when did you first fall in love with hip-hop? I would go back to fifth grade. It was Bone Thugs-N-Harmony. I don't know what my exposure was, but one of my best friends in fifth grade. That bonded us. We would just stay up all night playing the music. We had our crushes. She liked Crazy. Bones I always seem to like the ones that are a little rebellious. That's our inside Right.
Speaker 2:I like that. So then speak to that in terms of how you got into your career. How did you break into your career?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so on the lawyer's side, you know that was definitely like a seed that was planted for my mom. So it was like law school or medical school pick one and at first I thought I was going to do medical school and I don't know where the shift really happened, but I think it was just some guidance along the way. Some teachers, you know I would do mock trials and everyone was like afraid to go up against me in class.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 4:And one of my teachers in high school it was a criminal justice class. He said have you thought about going to law school? And at teachers in high school it was a criminal justice class, he said have you thought about going to law school? And I'm like yeah, I'm going back and forth between that and medical school. So I think those nudges, those kind of cues, got me thinking like this is where I'm going to really go. So that's how I got started and I knew that going into college that was my route, going to law school after this.
Speaker 2:All right, right. So that's the intro to your song. Uh, the song, the sounds of whitney. When did the beat drop in your career?
Speaker 4:when did the beat drop? You know, probably okay. So the beat drop, is that supposed to be a good thing or bad?
Speaker 2:so the beat drop. It follows the first 16 bars of the song. I should have shared this with you. It would be that moment when your career took off. When did the beat drop?
Speaker 4:You know, honestly, I feel like it took some time, and I would say probably Eight or nine years in, and that was because I had moved around a couple of times. I had gotten more confident in being authentic in my workplace. I went from a big firm to like smaller, smaller smaller.
Speaker 4:And I was getting more aligned with the places I wanted to work in and more confident. So it was less of the imposter syndrome and more of. I got this. I know what I'm doing and I can be strategic in the way I navigate the space and the of. I got this. I know what I'm doing, yeah, and I can be strategic in the way I navigate the space and the way I handle my cases did you feel like firm was more competitive versus the small?
Speaker 2:that's what I felt, like this energy of I've got to compete, so now you are, so the anxiety just increases.
Speaker 4:Then right, absolutely so competitive, um a little bit like high school too. You know, they can kind of put you up against each other they showed her what everyone's billable hours were. They had a report that got circulated. Oh yeah, uh-huh, you needed to be on top, you did, and if you had a bad month, you know now you have not just the partners looking at it, you have your friends or peers like, oh okay, we got her. Yeah, so not the healthiest of environments, especially, you know, as my first place I worked or you know, first couple places.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, never thought about it like that cutthroat it feels like it yeah well, what about the verse? So the verse is the part of the song that's used to advance the plot and make up the majority of the song. What was the verse on this personal soundtrack that we're talking about?
Speaker 4:Okay, you know well, and I don't know what, the next part of the song is.
Speaker 3:Maybe, that's not the verse.
Speaker 4:But I think it was during the pandemic, me deciding that I really wanted to pivot and make this career my own. I wasn't as afraid to go after it. So I was like, okay, I want to do a little bit of practice, but I want to do some other things. I want to teach, I want to speak, you know, and have more fun with work. So that was kind of where that's what I keep coming back to Anytime I'm doing things.
Speaker 1:I don't really enjoy.
Speaker 4:I'm like I need to get back to why I have evolved anyways out of full time practice. I want to have fun. I want to have more enjoyable experiences in my career.
Speaker 2:Can you share some of your most difficult career challenges and how you navigated through those? We just talked about some of the competitiveness. I can only imagine it was male-dominated. What were some of those career challenges that you have to navigate through?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I would say early on it was because of the competition. If there was a few of us women, you know, working for a male partner, everyone's trying to vie for that attention like get the you know glamour cases, get the glamour clients. So there was that. And then after that I would say, you know, I was always working in predominantly you know white environment, so I'm still trying to navigate, showing up authentically but not standing out in a bad way, right. So I think it was. You know, when I got to a work environment where I had my first black supervisor, I was super excited because I'm like, well, I've never, I've never seen this, especially us both being women lawyers, and it just wasn't a positive experience. There was some competition there and I think, unfortunately, I grew a lot through that, but it was very challenging to have to navigate that.
Speaker 4:So that's unfortunate yeah, it was, and now I look back at it more with compassion because I see just kind of that dynamics of what we were up against. So I don't think it was like a hurt thing or a me thing, it was just situational environment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the environment environment and that's what we have to remember when we are going through our lived experience. Our environment is going to impact us, good or bad, and even in that case, I'm sure outside of work it would have been a different dynamic, but in that space, being two black women and all the yes we can only imagine. So let's talk about the chorus. It's the heart of the song. It captures the main message and the emotional essence. It's the part most people remember and sing along to. When you think about your career, what has been the core message and also your personal life, your core message in your career and personal life.
Speaker 4:Yeah, definitely not being afraid to pivot, like don't being afraid to pivot, like don't be afraid to pivot. I think a lot of times we, you know, make decisions based on information we have at the time, and we can always change our mind, and I think I had to. That's the core thing I've done. You know, at first, when I was working with a lot of firms, I was moving around pivoting, you know, in work environments, different practice areas. Then I pivoted to entrepreneurship. So then it was like okay, how do I navigate this? I've never been an entrepreneur, never desired it, didn't have any entrepreneurs in my immediate family. So now I'm trying to figure that out. So you know, I think it's just always being like I can change my mind, it's okay and the skills are transferable.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:So you're not really starting over. You're starting over, but you're not really starting over.
Speaker 2:And you're only expanding right. When you've done this and now you've done this, you're transferring those skills, but as a person, you're expanding your experience, and so I love that. You also have the support system to help you navigate that. I know your mom introduced us saying you need to get out here and meet people, and you know we've been hitting it off since. We need to get our lunch date rescheduled, but it's a good, good thing for us to know it's okay to pivot right.
Speaker 2:That pandemic too. That was a pivot for Shatima, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the you know and I was thinking when you were talking, being an entrepreneur myself. You know I have to remind myself, I can make the rules, you know. So you're used to living and executing for someone else and you know there was some SOP or standard work. Or you know, you've been kind of preconditioned to do this, this, this, and then I'm like, well, hold on, you don't have to start working until 10. You don't have to wake up and do this first, or, you know, do that, you can make the rules, and that what that grind looks like for you may be different, and it doesn't mean that it's not right, right, so I can definitely appreciate that. And then I also, you know, one of the biggest lessons I think I've learned as an entrepreneur is you got to figure it out. So, even though those skills are transferable, you're tapping into different aspects of those skills. Right of negotiation, you know, reviewing the contracts, networking looks a little different as an entrepreneur, as it did in other spaces.
Speaker 4:So I definitely can relate to that being kind of that pivot and and continually pivoting for sure, yeah, and like the biggest challenge, I think, coming from corporate to entrepreneurship is in corporate we have more resources. Right, you're working for this, this organization, and you know you can print all you want and do all these things, and when it's on you and your dime it's, it looks very different, right? Where's that qr code?
Speaker 2:well, it's you then, being in the restaurant as the host, the waitress, the chef. You go cook it, come serve it. You know that's the difference between entrepreneurial, but you get it done. You know, to shatima's point, you shift and make it happen so.
Speaker 3:So the final piece of the soundtrack is the bridge. The bridge helps break up the repetitiveness of the song. It adds an element of surprise, often presenting a new angle to the main idea. What is the bridge to your song?
Speaker 4:Ooh. So I would say I know we've kind of talked about it a little bit, but it's now me really, you know, starting to disconnect more and more from just that lawyer identity side and show more of that black woman side. And that's where you know, doing gen 38, doing community breathwork events where we have hip-hop music, you lay down on a mask, you're on a mat, put on your eye mask and like have some breathwork release around. Hip-hop music is an unconventional right. And then us like going on a tour to do it city to city is something that I don't think anybody saw coming for me and I'm like why are you doing this?
Speaker 4:I'm like I don't know I'm just just where my heart is leading me to go and having fun with it, and we're gonna turn it into you hopefully being at music festivals, having you know yoga instructors, like doing an element of twerk you know to, like twerk workshops in it, just really like full body, like embodiment for women, confidence, empowerment. That's really where I'm headed, so I think that that's where people are. Didn't see that coming, but it's really at the top of my focus right now.
Speaker 3:I would be in there dancing some hip hop breath work. Well, if they can do yoga with pigs and surely you can do, you know, breathing with hip hop.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I hear you saying I'm more than just a lawyer. You know I'm more than just and I love that for you, you know, just being able to express all those things inside you want to do, you want to be. But look what is given to the community. I think that's where your returns going to come back and you'll just be keep doing it because you love it and people are being. You know they're getting something from that, so I love that. It's inspiring, it's community change agent. So, um, what is the song, your go-to song, whitney, that helps push you through those tough times? Or, like in my case, when I'm ready to go in and to work and I know it's going to be war? What's that go-to song for you that you're gonna put on?
Speaker 4:um, you know I like right now it's a song by future called crushed up and it's not heavy on the like war music, but it's just very. There's a lot of metaphors in there and it's really about envisioning and manifestation and like that's really where I'm headed. I've used to view manifestation in a very different way of like just sit and wait, like okay, I want to manifest this, but there is some activity around it. Like you don't have to like hustle the hardest and you know it doesn't have to look like burnout, but you have to get clear on what you want and then you have to make action towards that, and so that song to me is really inspiring for that.
Speaker 4:So, even if you're going into this work environment or a place that you don't currently want to be in, you're envisioning what the ultimate goal is and how you're going to get out of there, so that's one of my favorites what's the name of it?
Speaker 2:again, crushed up, crushed up. All right, so it'll help us set our intentions when we're manifesting and then move into action. All right.
Speaker 3:Love Future Crushed Up I know, I'm hearing it.
Speaker 2:We got to check out more Future. I know.
Speaker 3:Who'd have thought.
Speaker 2:Full of surprises. Whitney said Right. Whitney said Whitney said it.
Speaker 3:Whitney said it. What album would you recommend for our guests to listen to?
Speaker 2:Ooh, a start to finish, like if they haven't already Start to finish. We want to hear all of it.
Speaker 4:You know that is a good question. I still love Chronic 2000 by Dr Dre. Yeah, like. That's one that I probably like. That's what I'm trying to think of the last album, I mean West Coast Baby over there.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes.
Speaker 4:And I'm sure there's some after that. But that was like boom where my brain went to of. Even now I can hear it and I'm like I love this Right, love this song.
Speaker 2:Love that, we'll take that West Coast. So, this has been such a great conversation. The inspiration I mean I'm feeling it. I'm hoping the audience is getting that too. You are doing your thing out there. Tell everybody where they can find you on social Whitney.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so thank you. I love being here. It's always so good to see you. If you want to further connect, I'm on Instagram, whitneymharveyesq, and I'm also, you know, on LinkedIn as well, but you can find me on my other socials for Instagram, on Gen 38. That's really what's going to be taken off in the future.
Speaker 2:Gen 38. I'll make sure I follow.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Well. Thank you so much, Whitney. It's always our pleasure hanging out with you here. We're so glad that you took some time to give us some pearls to think about, and we hope that the viewers had a great time listening to you as well, Thank you. Thanks for having me Once again. I'm Shatima Gresham. I am the CEO of Procure Talent Management Group. We specialize in talent management. I'm also the VP of professional development and membership with the Black HR Society. You can find Procure on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn, and you can also find me at shatimawewantatalkaboutitcom.
Speaker 2:I'm Twani Vaughn, also known as TJ Laurie. We want to thank you for joining us. We also want to thank our sponsor, the Black HR Society, for making a meaningful difference in the lives of Black HR professionals here in the Valley difference in the lives of black HR professionals here in the Valley. You can find the black HR society on all social social platforms at the black HR society, find us on IgE at black HR society. If you want to reach out to me, you want to be a sponsor, you want to be on the show or you know someone who'd make a great guest, you can email me, TJ, at. We want to talk about itcom, because we do. We want to talk about it with you. We're so glad you came and joined us today. We look forward to you coming on back next time. Until then, bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 1:Thank you for tuning into let's Talk About it the podcast. We hope you enjoyed today's conversation and found inspiration in the stories and experiences shared. We trust that you were entertained, learned something new and felt inspired by today's show. Be sure to subscribe, like, follow, share and join us for the next episode. Until then, keep the conversation going and let's keep talking about it.
