World Cup We've now reached the Round of 16!

16 teams left, join the 2Ds as they reflect on the round of 32, look forward to the round of 16 and crucially have they stuck with their original choices of potential winners, or have other teams done enough to change their minds. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Okay, Peter, John here. Hi John. It's another week of the World Cup. We've now well they have now completed the round of 32. Thoughts on that? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 0:17

I think it's been very interesting. I think throwing up quite a few surprises along the way and a few very interesting games. I thought the the Belgium Senegal game was a very interesting game. I thought a dramatic set Senegal 2 or 2 up. Came back to lose 3-2. Particular highlight for me was the penalty incident at the end when the Senegalese players cease to lay on the penalty spot hoping that nobody would notice where it was so they wouldn't be able to take the penalty.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Well they they've got form for that, haven't they, for playing around with penalties. I wondered if it it probably certainly crossed some people's minds, mine included, were they going to walk off?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yes. I mean obviously FIFA put into their rules now that if a team walks off they're immediately disqualified for the competition. But yes, they have got form. I thought the particular interesting thing was that Lukaku was given the ball to hold while all the melee was going on. So nobody was going to interfere with Lukaku before he gave the ball to Tielemans to take the penalty. But yeah, I'm glad they didn't walk off and I'm glad the it was all done fairly.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I mean it was actually uh it was good of Lukaku because I don't know if he was down to take the penalty and then he handed the ball to Tielemans because the pressure of that waiting for the you know things to clear down, the Malay to to uh quieten down, probably if you're a penalty taker, it it it you know it isn't great.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Can't be good, can it?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Can't be good. So Lukaku holding the ball probably helped. Yes, because that was where the focus was. Yeah, that was a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Any other games? Yeah, I think the Portugal Croatia game, I think very good game, good good quality football. And I thought the key thing in that was that Martinez taking Ronaldo off and they still won, which I wonder how the balance of power now has shifted to Martinez, allowing him a bit more leeway in terms of taking Ronaldo off as the competition goes on when things aren't going well, whereas prior to that I think it would have been very difficult if he if he took Ronaldo off in the past. Now maybe it swung a little bit more in his direction. I think he still has to start him, but maybe he can take him off a bit earlier if it's not working. What about yourself? Have you seen it?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Uh I liked well, I I really enjoyed the Spain-Austria game. I thought that Spain really showed they are the best team. I mean, Lamar is their uh uh superstar, should we say, he's still very young, and he's obviously not 100% fit, but as a team, I thought they were excellent. They were everywhere. They covered a lot of ground, they covered each other, they were always players available, and they have grown into this competition. Each time I've seen them, they've been stronger and better. Yeah. It'll be interesting that they're playing Portugal next, who are also a very technical side with the ball. So that would be a kind of I think Spain will get through because I also like the fact that they've got wingers, or they've got overlapping fullbacks, Porro and Cucharella, and then they've got Lamar, who kind of switches switches wings across, and they've still got Nico Williams who hasn't played at all. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Uh so I think that not only can they play through the middle, they can also go down the wings, and that that is uh definitely for me a tactic that probably not enough teams have used that uh as you know as has made made certain teams not play as well as maybe they should have done, or not done as well as they should have done.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, and bear in mind they've still got Rodri in the centre of midfield, which obviously been a dominant force in the Premier League in the way he can control the midfield. So they're looking good all over the pitch, really.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah, and they've got they've got you know, the subs they brought on are good, they've their the base level of subs and team is incredible or their squad is incredible, I think. Pretty good. Very good. Yeah. Um the other game, I I don't know. You know, there was we won't talk about England, we maybe will come on to that as a separate subject. I liked Ivory Coast Norway. I mean, I think that the fact that Haaland scored wasn't a great goal, it was a scuff goal, but like all good centre forwards, he was where he should be.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

And that that and Norway are a good side, solid side, they're not a great side, but they're a good solid side, as are Ivory Coast. But I think in that in that instance, when you've got a player who gets half a chance, somehow they make it happen, and he did.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

I I think he gives them a very clear identity. They've got one superstar, uh, they've got Odegaard, they've got good players around them, but they've got one superstar who they build the team around, and that I think makes thinking clearer, it gives you a better strategy, um, makes everybody focused on the same kind of approach, which I kind of you know, again, you might talk about England a bit, is how England are probably thinking about things. Harry Kane's a superstar, and we build around and that gives England a little bit more focus. So I think yeah, Norway look look a good good side, and it'll be fascinating in the next round against Brazil, see how they how they get on. Because Brazil haven't looked fantastic. I mean, Brazil have got a good side, obviously. I mean, that midfield is you know, Guimaria's Paquetta and Casemiro. You wouldn't say that that was an outstanding midfield, it's very solid, obviously, but there's chances there for Norway, I think.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah, um I think they'll hold anybody those midfields. I mean, I think that what was interesting, and I just want to say we did get some listeners from Brazil last time we uh last episode and also in the States, and I maybe Ancelotti's listened to us because the hydration break there, he changed it. They went down the wings and they put the crosses in and they got the goals up until that point, trying to play through those three just didn't work, just didn't really work. Um they I don't think they've got enough legs, I don't think they're creative enough, they're very strong, but for those reasons, he you know he switched the emphasis and it opened up the game for them, I think, because they got a new goal and moved on.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Um Yeah, I mean France look very good, they've got weapons all over the pitch, haven't they? They've got and I think they they have got in an attack. I mean, Dembele looked very, very good the other day. I mean his hat trick was was was outstanding. So uh and they're solid at the back as well, they know what they're doing at the back, uh and and they've got just they've got options off the bench as well. People like Barcola, who's not necessarily a starter, can come off the bench and he i i is a world-class player. So to mix it up.

unknown 6:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Ryan Checkery as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah, exactly. Very, very strong side indeed.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Germany Paraguay, what did you think of that with the uh Paraguayans eventually doing on penalties? You never thought you'd see a German team losing.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah, one objective to to hang on grimly, which they they did for for uh the whole of uh the game and the additional extra time, and that's very good from from their perspective to win the game. I I sometimes find the problem with this tournament a little bit is there's been a lot of low blocks, weaker teams playing strong teams. There hasn't been a lot of games where you've they've gone at each other 50-50. There's been one team sitting back and one team desperate to to score, which is great every now and again, but when there's been quite a few of them, England had three of them, it probably takes the edge off the spectacle, but still a great result for for Paraguay, I think.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah, I mean that they they are probably the only, let's say, big team that's not gone through uh to the last 16. You know, we've got Brazil, England, Argentina, Colombia, you know, everybody, Portugal, Spain, they're all through France, but Germany are probably the only big measure.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Possibly you could throw the Netherlands in there, maybe who could have done something with the quality of players that they do have in in their squad. But Germany on paper should should be one of the dominant forces, and no wonder Nagel's man has has gone as uh has gone as manager.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

I mean, well, it seems that you lose and you're out. I mean, I I I do think because uh Coleman's gone at uh Holland, obviously the Tunisian manager went after about I don't know, 35 minutes, I think, of the first game. Yeah, he was gone. But um it looks like it's very difficult. You know, success is what it is. If you don't get the success, you're out for the big nations, it seems that way. Um I think we should really just talk or touch on certainly the England game. What were your thoughts there against Congo?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah, I mean it was well first at the goal. I mean, Pickford beaten at the near post there. Great strike from the lad, but really Pickford, you would expect him to s to savour that near post. I I see Pickford, he's not having a greatest of World Cup, he doesn't look that secure. I doubt if he'll bring Trafford in, but uh it Pickford is if he he's probably one serious error away from from being replaced by by Trafford because he's not looked that secure. In general, I thought they played okay, but again, Harry Kane gets them out of jail. He I think his goal, first goal, was not the strongest header, and he was a bit fortunate that they flipped him, but the second goal was obviously second goal was a stunner, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

I do want I mean there was the first game where well if England had gone 2-0 down, there was that chance that they that uh Congo had and they they went the wrong side of the post. If that had gone in, I don't know if from 2-0 down England would have come back. It would have been uh a challenge, even though they were both by far the the better team, and they uh their goal the goalkeeper for Congo, Patsy or something, well certainly wasn't a Patsy. I mean he was brilliant, he played really, really well, he did some great saves, but yeah, again, England couldn't find a way through at the end of the day. It was Bellingham and O'Cain, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

You're right, Gellingham came with the stars again. It goes back to our earlier points about something different, some different piece, some creativity that a Palmer or Foden might give you. Even a Wharton, one of the things we failed to do is pass through the lines, and Wharton would have probably given you that those options. So picking the team that True Shaw has, or the squad, it's very like for like players that he's bringing on. So there's nothing really different there. And also, we've also touched on the fullback, you know, if Trent Alexander Arnold was there, obviously that delivery from right full back, opening defences up from there gives us another weapon when teams are playing that low block.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Yeah, I think we're right. And I I I don't think that the centre halves of of I mean the the back four haven't gelled. I know he's he's done a few tweaks and uh you know Reese James has injured and then Tibramento went home and now um uh Conser. I don't know if he's gonna play or not on the next game. Stones came on. It doesn't look solid enough back four to build on. And I think you know, I remember you making the point with the um first when we talked about the squad that you know there could have been some other centre halves there that were maybe would have been a bit more solid, maybe wouldn't have offered much more going forward, maybe a fret of corners and things, but they would have been a bit more solid and a bit more well, you want your centre halves to be brutal. I don't think those are two are brutal.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

I think I think you there seems to be a lack of leadership at the back. I don't know who who the leader is. I think if Stones was on the field, maybe he'd be the leader, but between Conza and Gay, I don't see a leader there. Both play, they're quieter players, they play within themselves, they're very efficient. Nico Reilly's a young lad, so he's not gonna be there to provide that leadership. And the right side, Dedgard Spence, is again somebody who's again not gonna be a leader there, and he's and he hasn't got a solid position. So my hope is for the next game that Reese James is fit. The signs seem to be that that he will be. He's captain at Chelsea, so he might bring that leadership and help build that solidity because we'll definitely need it in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

I do find I mean, oh right, Riley is whenever he has the he seems to come into the middle more, he so he leaves that space on the left. And so whoever it is, Gordon Rashford doesn't really have support like an overlapping fullback. So he he squeeze which I I think it comes back from playing with you know for Man City, they they squeeze the middle, and then they re you know they relied on Chequery this year, Brunio in the past, and other player Mares to to to sort of do something to get through there. Because we haven't got a player like that, England haven't got a player like that. It makes it kind of tight. So you've got Riley's close to Anderson, who's close to Bellingham, you know, who's close to Rice, and it's kind of a little bit congested. Maybe there's a would be better if he stayed stretched it out a little bit wider, stayed out on the left.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Yeah, I think playing for Man City, he does come inside a lot by instinct, by training, by background, he's a central midfield player, a holding midfield player. So he's not that natural overlap lapping wide man, which somebody like a Lewis Hall might have been. And that lack of of wide men on both sides has really really hurt England, I think, in terms of their options. So we we're very much reliant on Kane and Bellingham again, and then hoping that the midfield is solid. I think Anderson and Rice, so long as he doesn't play Rice at right back, which I I I think he tried that at the end and he it worked quite well, but I think as a as a starting strategy, you need you need Bellingham, Rice, and Anderson in in your centre of your midfield, and just hope that Reese James is fit at right back, and then we're starting to look a little bit more than I mean Mexico round of 16, we're playing Mexico, whatever hundreds, thousands of square feet, uh square uh uh altitude, the heat and everything else.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Mexico haven't seen too much, they've gone through the competition pretty quietly, winning their games, not you know, nobody scored against them, and obviously they're gonna beat the Azteca. It'll be a challenge, I think. It'll be a challenge. I think they'll be more in terms of you know, Mexico will in front of a home crowd will want to get at England, and that may well open up some space. I I you know I've never played at that altitude. I've never played in that heat, so I've no idea what it does to you, but they you know, that is I don't know. Is it an issue? I never I can't remember against Maradona in 86 against Argentina and the rest of the guys in 86 or whatever it was, and at the Azteca, that it was ever mentioned the heat or the altitude.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

No, I don't think it I don't think it was. I was thinking the same thing the other other day myself. It seems to be a much bigger issue. I mean it's 7,000 feet, obviously it it's high, but even though the Mexicans are climatised, they've still got to play at that that altitude. The interesting thing is they don't seem to have any real superstars, or certainly no international superstars in in their side, some good players. A lot of them play domestically in the Mexican league, and they I think they play very well as a team, very cohesive as a team. And the way for England to cope, I think they have to keep the ball. I think they have to really that's why James will be vital in a right back, because he'll help them keep the ball in there, and especially those opening 15-20 minutes, I think the Mexicans will come come flying out.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

They'll be crazy, yeah. I mean, uh the crowd, they'll obviously England will be outnumbered. It'll be a home game for Mexico, and you know, we'll see how they they cope with that. But it it will be an interesting game. On that side of the draw, obviously you've got you know, Colombia look good. Yeah, they're playing Switzerland. Yep, they look good. Yeah. I think Argentina will have enough for Egypt. Although Cape Verde was an amazing story and it's one of the highlights of this World Cup, I think. But I think you made the point earlier that Argentina always looked like they were going to win that game.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah, yeah. I think they they seem they didn't seem to be in danger, although Cape Verde got a wonderful second goal. Argentina always looked to be on the offensive, always look to be likely to score. So I think I think you're right. I think they'll go through uh against Egypt. Could be a tight game. Obviously, the Egyptians have got some good players in Salah, they've got a talisman there who could pull something out of the fire. Marmush. And Marmouch as well. So they've got some good good players with the good experience, but I see I see Argentina going through. Brazil-Norway? Yeah, I think that'll be a f that would be a fascinating game. I think Brazil haven't looked that fantastic. I think Paquet, Paqueta, Gimaraich, and Casimiero are not as good as Brazilian midfields in the past. Whether they stay with that, I don't, I don't know. And I think Norway have with given their strategy, given that sort of single focus of of Haaland, they could they could cause Brazil some some issues. What about yourself? Do you think do you see an upset?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

I mean the Brazilian the two Brazilian centre halves are pretty good. I think that what happened in the last game, they were they were almost Marquinness and um the Arsenals Gabriel were were making the crosses. They were the guys putting the balls in the box, even from I don't know, 20 25 yards out. So if if Norway could play through that, you know, Norway could easily uh play through that, and then you've got Haaland against those two. And I would I would put you know, Haaland is a centre forward, he's gonna occupy those two, and if he keeps doesn't come back, you know, doesn't come into that sort of block into midfield, those guys are gonna have to stay and mark him, and that's gonna leave a lot of space in the middle, a lot of space in the middle, and um it will be interesting to see how that goes. Yeah, on the other side, you know, USA Belgium. I mean, I don't know how Belgium are still standing, to be honest, but Lukak is not fit, De Brian is not fit, and they're of a certain age, but they got through and they've they've they still have got some quality players, and they've still got some quality players. And whether they have enough for the USA, I don't know. USA, a bit like Mexico, I suppose. Home team, home crowd, have they got enough?

SPEAKER_00 16:38

I think they're very physical, the USA, and they as you say, with the home support, with their athleticism, uh they've got they've got chances. Again, they've got they've got players like Robinson with Premier League experience, but again, maybe no superstars in there, but they've got a cohesiveness about them which is worth a lot. Which which could trouble which trouble to Belgium. But Belgium, as you say, still have some players in there who can who can do things and do have special moments.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, Portugal, Spain will be a beautiful game to watch, I think. If they both play that technical ability, the turnover the ball, keep the ball. It'll be interesting to see how Spain play against that, against an equally because the Portugal midfield is fantastic, whatever they do with and and they've got gr actually they've got a very good centre back pairing as well. So that'll be a challenge for Spain, but I do think Spain will edge that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Canada Morocco again, the team with home support, but I don't see Canada coming through Morocco. Morocco have got some technical players, they've obviously weathered the storm uh in the previous round. So I I see Morocco coming through there. Do you do you see?

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, I think I think that's right. I think Morocco are a very, very solid team. Their centre forward has now gone, I believe, to Bayern Munich. He looks sharp, and Hakim is great on the on the right. Yeah, they're a they're a strong, strong team.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

And carrying the flag for Africa, right? Which is Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I think they're the best African side left in the in the uh tournaments. It's a shame nine went through out of ten, uh, but only two have gone through out of those nine into the into the 16. So we'll see. Then you've got Paraguay France, and it'll be can France undo Paraguay? That's the uh we've got 90 minutes of attack versus defence.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Well, I think uh that will be I think their pace and power will be too much and Badade and Ballet uh will be, you know, they've they've they've got a lot about them. So so the key question is one o'clock in the morning kickoff, which pub are you going to?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

I'm actually going to watch it with my brother-in-law at his house, if we can both stay awake. Um that will be that day. I'm not planning to do much the day after. I'm going to see my daughter, so I haven't got it's not like I've got to be somewhere at 9 a.m. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Are you gonna be in the pub or well I'm debating there's a pub just up the road from me. They're not advertising, they're showing it, but I wonder if they'll just organically stay open. And it'd be really interesting to see if people take the opportunity to on a Monday morning to stay up drinking until 5 a.m. Have a lot of people decided to take sickies or already?

SPEAKER_01 19:04

It'll be Well, uh I think I can see normally working from home is Monday, you know, Monday and Friday, so I think it could be a you've got the people who are gonna be letting late, and then you've got the people working from home. So I don't know, it's probably a good day to travel around London, I think. There'll be not many people about. Right, as we come to the end. I mean, the big question every uh week we end with who do we think is still gonna go through? Now we've come up with the same teams every time. Has that changed for you?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

It hasn't. The only thing that maybe has changed a little bit is Spain, have gone up in my estimation. So they're heading for a semi-final kind of berth with France. So that could be a real fantastic ding-dong. But France still for me. What about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Same, I think. There's and Spain as well. I think Brazil are finding a way through and improving. If it's Brazil England as a quarter final, that's going to be interesting. The semi-final, whoever gets through is going to probably be Argentina, which will also be interesting. But I even though I do like the Argentinian, I like the centre half pairing, I like the midfield, and obviously with Messi, they've got a very special player. France just have everything, I think. Yeah. And I can't at this stage look at that. I think the one thing I would I'm really happy about this World Cup is that all the guys, if I was a 12-year-old kid, you know, you're thinking, wow, Mbappé's scoring, you know, Messi's scoring, even Ronaldo, Haaland, Kane, you know, in the playgrounds. Vinny Jr., you know, you'd be thinking, wow, what a what a first kind of World Cup as a 12-year-old or whatever, you know, 10 to 14 year old. You're thinking, I mean, the playgrounds must be fantastic, all out attack, attack, attack.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

So that's a great thing about the World Cup, and I think that's what inspires hopefully people to play football. Yes. But in the right way as well. I think this is wanting to score goals, which is we want to see superstars, and this has certainly been a World Cup for that. How many of them will still be playing in four years' time? I don't know. Who knows? But this is a great, great tournament for that. Yeah, exactly. Okay, Peter, that was a good chat, wasn't it? It was indeed, John. Right, okay, we'll catch up next week and maybe we'll see the semi-finalists. Okay. Okay, good. Take care. See ya. Bye bye. Bye.