Inside Richmond: The City's Pulse

Episode 11 – Inside Richmond: The City’s Pulse | Help Shape Richmond's Future During the Comprehensive Plan Workshop

• Kevin Shook • Episode 11

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Ever wonder what secret document guides practically every decision in Richmond’s growth? Mayor Ron Oler, Planning Director Dustin Purvis, and host Lindsay Darnell pull back the curtain on the Comprehensive Plan—the city’s essential roadmap that’s used every day, not something collecting dust on a shelf.

This insightful conversation explores how the plan influences everything from downtown revitalization to tackling multi-generational homelessness. As Richmond updates this critical guide, your voice is needed to shape decisions about which neighborhoods get investment, where new housing will go, and how our community connects through transportation.

The city’s priorities are evolving—moving beyond just market-rate apartments downtown (already in the works) toward affordable housing and quality-of-place improvements. Did you know many people now choose where to live based on community amenities first and then look for jobs? That’s why Richmond is enhancing the Whitewater Gorge with kayak launches, extending multimodal trails to Earlham College, and reimagining public spaces.

Perhaps most surprising: 12,000 people commute into Richmond every day without living here. That’s a huge opportunity to grow our residential base by creating a community where workers want to stay. The updated Comprehensive Plan will help drive that transformation through smart land use, transportation upgrades, and economic development strategies.

Join the conversation and help guide Richmond’s next five years!
Public Workshop
📅 Thursday, July 31st
🕠 5:30 – 6:30 PM
📍 Starr Gennett Building, 101 S. 1st St, Richmond, IN

A short 15-minute presentation will share an overview of the plan updates, followed by an open house for questions and input. As Mayor Oler says: “If it’s not in our plan, we won’t pay attention to it.”

Questions? Reach out to Lindsay Darnell at ldarnell@richmondindiana.gov.

Come share your ideas for the future of Richmond!

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to another episode of Inside Richmond, the City's Pulse. I'm Lindsay Darnell, your host, and today I have Mayor Ron Oler joining us, along with Dustin Purvis. He is the Planning Director for the City of Richmond. Guys, thank you for joining me.

Speaker 2:

Glad to be here. Thanks for having us today.

Speaker 1:

Yes. So the reason why I wanted to have you guys on is we are in the middle of our comprehensive plan refresh and we have a public workshop that's going to be coming up. So I wanted to just touch base on what the process is. What is a comprehensive plan? And you guys are on the steering committee, so I wanted to have you come in and help me explain it to the community, what it is and why we're doing it. So we're going to first start out with what is a comprehensive plan.

Speaker 2:

So the city uses a comprehensive plan to guide all of its decisions, Decisions including land use, development, housing, neighborhoods, parks and rec transportation utilities. So it's our guidebook. Some people call it a master plan, but I see it more as a guidebook and we're refreshing it. If the listeners don't remember, we did this in 2019. So every five years you need to refresh it, Otherwise it gets stale and you have to start from scratch. And you mentioned the public workshop coming up. Let's talk about that twice. Let's mention it now the date, time and location, and again at the end, so people really know.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so our public workshop will be held at the Star Jeanette building on July 31st, that is, a Thursday, from 530 to 630. There will be a brief 15-minute presentation and then it will be a brief 15-minute presentation and then it will be an engagement discussion about what does the community want and see for our city.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so the comprehensive plan, If?

Speaker 2:

I may, of course. Dustin, you want to add to the what is a comprehensive plan. You're a city planner, you are a planning director, so you're more closely. Your job is this basically.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So I think on the one hand, as the mayor was saying, it allows us this opportunity to have a snapshot of where we are right now, but then also to determine what our priorities are, where we would like to go, and then, you know, sort of evaluate how we could get there and then just the concrete effects of that is with planning staff. It really kind of guides our zoning code, for instance. Legally our zoning code has to be informed by the comprehensive plan. So if our comprehensive plan, for instance, we say downtown, we have a vision of some commercial and retail downstairs with residential upstairs and then someone wants to come in and build a factory downtown with residential upstairs and then someone wants to come in and build a factory downtown, we have this document to point to, to say that this kind of conflicts with our image and the vision that we have for this area. So it kind of guides a lot of the nitty-gritty, practical day-to-day work that the planning staff does and the decisions that we make.

Speaker 1:

And your department probably uses this plan more.

Speaker 3:

We do Legally. Whenever someone wants to rezone a property or get any kind of variance, we have to evaluate what the comprehensive plan says and use that as a guide for how we ultimately the recommendations we make to the various boards and commissions in the city.

Speaker 1:

And so this plan is a long-range roadmap. I say long-range even though it is five years, but it does have to be updated every five years. Another reason why we need the comprehensive plan is so we can qualify for federal grants. One of them, I believe, is the community crossings matching grants, so that is roads. We won it this year, so hopefully, and I believe we won it last year, so hopefully, we can win it every year, and what that is is we will match whatever they give us in order to repair roads within the city.

Speaker 2:

That's a good example of it. If you don't have an updated, fresh plan, you don't qualify for certain grants. But it's really I'm going to. It's a 20-year plan and you roll it and revise it every five years. So that's what we're doing now.

Speaker 2:

And, for an example, on goal three, if I may jump ahead, joel three back in 2019 was community identity, process and procedures. Well, we started branding the city, so we started a community identity earlier. So, based upon what we thought in 2019, we're doing that now in 25. So that goal there'll still be six goals in the new one, but that's changing to quality of place and some other stuff too. So every time we revisit this, every five years, it's very likely that you know, maybe there's a huge change in transportation 10 years from now, so that would come off because it's fixed forever. We finally have flying cars or something crazy. So you're constantly looking at it and just revising it and picking out pieces. And that's what we're doing right now is we're looking at what worked and what didn't work and unfortunately, because of COVID, some things just can't work and won't work. People's behaviors change, so we need to recognize that, that this part of the plan won't work anymore because just behaviors change and we need to adjust it.

Speaker 1:

So yes, a lot has changed in our community since the last plan, so this refresh makes sure that we're keeping up with new needs and opportunities. Another part of the comprehensive plan is affordable housing, land use, transportation, economic development. So we really want to stress to the community this is what it is and that their voice is going to be a big part. It's not just city employees that are constructing this plan. That's why we're going to have the workshop is because it's the community. They are the ones that make up our city and they are the ones that voices matter.

Speaker 2:

Right. So we have all these professionals who work for the city, who have been guiding this work to the point where we need public input. So we've spent all the time looking at what we've done the last five years and now we need to everybody's. I don't want to say buy-in, but we need everybody's input on what we want to do in the future.

Speaker 1:

So another thing, too, is affordable housing is a big issue right now. We have a lot going on in downtown right now with the revitalized Richmond. Those are going to be market rate apartments, and so we will be shifting our focus in the comprehensive plan to affordable housing. We do have a dire need for that as well.

Speaker 2:

Right. So in 2019, the focus really was on more market rate luxury type apartment buildings which are under construction now. So now we're shifting back because and back on affordable housing and we're going to tie in. This plan will also include an address to the the long-term homeless population, unsheltered. So this plan we're going to add that in here too and see if we can, because what to use a plan for? Use it to get funding. That's another reason. So if it's in our plan that we want to do something better for the unsheltered homeless, then we need it in our plan and we can seek some funding.

Speaker 2:

The task force, my mayor's task force, has been meeting for a little over a year now. We met this morning and they're all excited about this, and I'm excited because we have some persistent. One of the things I learned about homelessness and first 15 months of being mayor, we're now at the point where we're multi-generational homelessness, so we have people who've never known anything but unsheltered homeless lifestyle and they don't know a way out. Years ago, a decade or so ago, we started talking about multi-generational poverty. People didn't know a way out of poverty, so government's job was to help focus and educate them on how to get out of poverty and stay out of poverty, because they didn't know. That's how they were raised. So now we've got to turn the same same thing on unsheltered homeless, one of the ones I talked to last week. She's been homeless since she was six years old, so her parents told her she doesn't remember before six so, and her parents were homeless before that. So she's second or third generation homeless and doesn't know anything different and is willing to be educated. But we need to focus on that.

Speaker 2:

If it's not in our plan, we won't pay attention to it, and this is something uh richard, for for many years, has done a really good job of not putting this on the shelf. They never put this on the shelf. That's why number three is being taken care of. So we're're actually we're constantly working this stuff, and that's important. A lot of communities will create a comprehensive plan, put it on a shelf and use it to apply for a grant and not think about it. But, like you say, a planning department uses it, probably daily. The mayor's office is always referring to it, so when developers come in. This is our plan, this is what we want to do. This, this is our plan. This is what we want to do. This is how we want to revitalize Richmond and this helped us with the Lilly Grant and everything else that's going on. So all this stuff that's happening downtown and around town is because of this. It doesn't sit on a shelf, it's well-worn, we've dog-eared pages and everything.

Speaker 1:

And something really neat too is the EDC did an extensive housing study and it's located on their website. Extensive housing study and it's located on their website and I believe what they found was that our city needs 300 new units a year to keep up.

Speaker 2:

And with the county together it's 450.

Speaker 1:

450.

Speaker 2:

Between the city and the county we can. We can absorb 450 new units a year Single family homes, condos, apartments and that's just incredible. And the rate we're planning to build in the next five years. We're about half that, so we're not even catching up to that just yet, but we got to start rolling, so we're starting now. Within 18 months we'll have another 150 apartments downtown and another hundred and then get the other housing project going. We haven't started a new subdivision in 23 years now in Richmond, so it'll be nice to do that yeah and get that going too for single family homes.

Speaker 2:

So we have a whole mix. That plan says that study says we need a mix. So we're definitely working the mix.

Speaker 1:

Can you give us any updates on Sixth Main? I know they were supposed to be starting construction on the foundation this week which I have seen some bulldozers over there.

Speaker 3:

My understanding is that they have started construction this week, and I believe that the transfer to the developer is just about complete. So I think that we should, in the coming weeks and months, actually begin to see some tangible evidence of work being done out there, which is exciting.

Speaker 1:

And then your department, I know, like we've been talking about, deals more with the comprehensive plan. You also do permits, which I do reports on the permits, and we have a lot of private investment going on that I don't think the city or the community knows about how much money is being put in Richmond as a city whole and then also in downtown and put in Richmond as a city whole and then also in downtown.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think you know, we, certainly, with good reason, hear a lot about the exciting work that's being done downtown. But you're right, we have, I think, in recent years, just people in their houses. They're spending a lot of money to renovate their houses, to add additions or you know, but you know, a pole barn or something in their backyard. I mean, we are seeing a lot of that, especially in the summer. I think once the weather gets nice, people kind of get the bug to work on their house. And so, yeah, there has been a lot of investment in the city over the last couple of years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and the industrial park, Blue Buffaloes. What was that? $200 million expansion, 50 new jobs. Liberation Biosciences will be open soon. Anchor Ingredients as well, yes, anchor Ingredients. A lot of stuff happening.

Speaker 1:

Yes, a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2:

A lot of good stuff for our city. Good time to be a Richmondite.

Speaker 1:

I think it is. It is especially within these next few years. I mean we're going to see a huge change.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we just stopped at a coffee shop this morning on the way up downtown coffee shop and young couple has been here two years and they're excited, you know.

Speaker 1:

I asked him had you ever seen the city before the last two years? He said not really, but what they see they really like. Yeah, and it's an exciting time for us. So another thing to talking about the comprehensive plan with land use, can you give us a little bit of a dive in on what the land use is used for?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean that kind of gets back a little bit to what I said a minute ago about how the comprehensive plan informs our zoning. So you know, the comprehensive plan might identify a specific corridor that we might want to develop in a new way. Maybe in the past it was more residential, maybe we might want to sprinkle in some commercial. Now the comprehensive plan would be the spot where we really highlight that we have evidence of that and then, moving forward, that should inform our zoning code and how we determine what types of land use are or are not permitted. Because again, it all comes back to the comprehensive plan. We needed to be able to point to the plan and say that this project, you know it supplements what we're seeking to do in our plan. So it really does kind of dictate the various land uses that we are permitting within the city.

Speaker 1:

So just to kind of break it down to understand land uses, either this land can be used for residential or commercial only, or a little bit of mix of both.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so our zoning code. We have something like 16 or 17 different zoning districts, so you have residential districts of different types of density and we have different types of commercial districts, different types of industrial districts. But they essentially do outline what sorts of things can be used on that property, and then just the development standards. So things like setbacks or how large the lot has to be, those are all determined by the zoning code which again is informed by the comprehensive plan.

Speaker 1:

So it's really important that we do the comprehensive plan.

Speaker 3:

It is.

Speaker 1:

Not only for funding, but because we have to have this guide to tell us what to do. And it's not, like I said, not just us deciding, it's the whole community deciding.

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

Yes, okay. So, like he was saying, funding priorities and zoning. This is very important. Another thing that we are going to be working on is, since we have the community identity already underway, is we're going to kind of shift our focus to quality of place. Now, which one of you wants to describe what is quality of place?

Speaker 2:

Quality of place is also quality of life. I've heard it called two different things. So the built environment, improving the built environment, adding smaller parks, maintaining the bigger parks better. So shifting focus around and choosing which area gets attention, which area gets the quality control, if you will. But we're finding that historically people would move to an area after college because of a job. But in the last you read economist reports, reports in the last 10 to 15 years, that's changed to.

Speaker 2:

People are choosing to live in a place first and then they know the job is there for them or they'll work virtually.

Speaker 2:

So if you're not focusing on quality of life, quality of place features, if you're not activating parks, if you're not putting zip lines and canoe and kayak launch in the Whitewater River, along the Gorge Park, if you're not building a dog-friendly park in the Depot District, if you're not building apartments with a dog spa, if you're not doing all this stuff, if you're not taking an alley, in a couple of years we'll have an alley opened up back here and there'll be chandeliers hanging in it and it'll be just a cool place to get out of the sun.

Speaker 2:

If you're walking downtown, a different perspective. So people are looking for those kind of things. They're going out because everybody goes online first and then they go visit the place and if they see there's amenities that they want, they're choosing to move there and then they'll find a job within commuting distance of there or there or online and the Make my Move program. We bought 30 families to Richmond over the last couple of years and all of them are remote workers for other companies not here. Most several of them are from California and they're still working remotely from California. Some are working for an airplane manufacturer in the Midwest.

Speaker 1:

I believe there was a couple that actually did the make you make your move here, and they bought a house in the Star District and renovated it, and so they've gotten really involved in wanting to help restore these historic homes.

Speaker 2:

So quality of place. So if we make Star District look better, more people will find it more attractive, more people will move there. And it just keeps rolling. It's the broken window theory. If you have a broken window, other people are going to break windows. So if you have a nicely, if you have an old historic home that's been remodeled, then the neighbors are going to break windows. So if you have a nicely, if you have an old historic home that's been remodeled, then neighbors go.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to fix up my house and my house and my house and then I'm going to buy a house instead of having it as a rental and just totally flips the neighborhood yeah, it's kind of like when you see your neighbor out mowing, you're like I've got my yard mode too, because mine's getting tall and theirs is all freshly mowed and they've got their flowers out. So let me mow my yard and get these flowers out too. So it can look exactly yes, look nice as well.

Speaker 3:

Um, and you dustin want to say something about quality of place. I think just, you know, building off of that, I mean, you know it's the neighbors can kind of do their work to upkeep, but then it is the city's role to sort of design and upkeep and plant a community where maybe not just your house looks nice but now you can walk to a coffee shop, you can. You know you live in a walkable neighborhood, you live in a safe neighborhood, and that's where I think the city and our comprehensive plan, you know we want to be smart about the sort of broader environment that people are living in, so it is more attractive to people who are working remotely.

Speaker 1:

And then talking about, you know, walking your neighborhood or walking to the coffee shop. So transportation is in a comprehensive plan too. So that's not just public transit, it's walking, it's bicycling, it's all forms of transportation, and so that's a big one, I think, is going to be in this comprehensive plan. We got the loop done, or the multimodal bicycle path, whichever you want to call it. It is very gorgeous when you're looking at it, especially in the summer or springtime. Parks department does a really good job. They get flower pots out along downtown and Depot District, and so if you have a chance I know it's been really hot these last few days, but in the evenings it's not so bad Just come down and take a stroll. I mean, it's not a very big stroll, but it's exercise too.

Speaker 2:

And it's just, it's nice to see what changes are going on too within that path. Yeah, and part of this you talk about transportation. So because of this 2019 plan, part of the Lilly grant is going to extend that out to the Earlham campus so students feel have a safer way to get to downtown in the depot district either bicycle or walking and give them a little special marked path along the sidewalk.

Speaker 1:

Do we know what road that's going to go? Main Street, it's not going to.

Speaker 2:

So right now it goes down Main Street. It ends at the entrance to Star Jeanette and Veterans Park. It's going to continue across the Main Street Bridge to 8th Street. Actually it's going to continue on to Clear Creek Park. It's going to connect Clear Creek Park but at 8th Street it's going to jump down to Earlham's campus and we've met with NDOT and once we start building that, ndot's going to come along and do their part on 42, because NDOT's excited about city doing that. So they're going to help make that a safer intersection too for pedestrians and Earlham students and faculty crossing across 40, because right now they don't feel they say in this report they don't feel safe walking along 40,.

Speaker 1:

So we're going to immediately cross 40 and get them on city streets on a protected, somewhat protected, path.

Speaker 2:

It won't be quite like here because there's not space, but it'll be a little something to feel a little bit safer.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and walk along 40. I don't think a lot of people realize that a lot of the earlham students or transfer students are not local.

Speaker 2:

They're coming from international students, yes, and a lot of them stay here during the summer. There's quite a few here now, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And they don't have vehicles, so walking or bicycling is their means of transportation right now, and so we really do need to make it safe for them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I live on College Avenue, so directly across the street from the campus and it's you know, it's a great environment but it is true they kind of stay on campus. So I think being able to develop that connectivity between the campus and the downtown, Cross at the traffic light where there's traffic control in front of the campus would be perfect. I think yeah, and I think as a whole that makes our downtown more vibrant. You have more people down there, more businesses down there that maybe are attractive to the students.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, that maybe are attractive to the students, yes, yes. So economic development, that is another big one that is in the comprehensive plan, which is attracting businesses. It's also supporting entrepreneurship and job creation. So a lot of people are like, well, there's not many jobs there. But I don't think people realize we talked about this when we met at the Golden Kiwanis there is 12,000 people commuting to Richmond for work that does not live here. That is a big number.

Speaker 2:

Richmond and Wayne County.

Speaker 1:

yes, Wayne County yes.

Speaker 2:

Who work in this area but don't live here.

Speaker 1:

That's a big number no-transcript.

Speaker 2:

Factory jobs of old, like liberation, biosciences, those are high tech, precision fermentation jobs with quite a lot of training, still be a couple of warehouse jobs, but it's just not not your grandfather's factory anymore out there Right. So much different and hugely air conditioned. I have family working at Blue Buffalo and that refrigerated thing and they have to bundle up and I'm like that's the job to have right now this week or out at Sugar Creek and they're refrigerated.

Speaker 2:

That's the job to have, or Doc Foods out in the gateway industrial park, so you choose those things. It's not a hot factory anymore. There's still some of those available if you want that, and some people do, but there's also. Warehousing is so much different than it used to be.

Speaker 1:

And yeah and same with like with the industrial work. So we have a lot of industrial positions here but I don't think people remember or realize my grandparents would always tell me stories they came here from Kentucky because Richmond was just booming with industrial work. There was so many jobs. My grandma worked at Star Jeanette, my grandpa worked at Belden and I mean there was everything and our, our city has a really rich history my best friend.

Speaker 2:

Since childhood. His family came out from Kentucky and his dad ran a cabinet factory that was here for 50 years until it moved away. So our change hands everybody knows what that was, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so, um, but yeah, so I mean, even though we still have in industrial, uh, factories here. You know, maybe it's not industrial that we want to create more space for, maybe it's something else, you know. So I think it's just important that during the public workshop, that we can get as many community members to come. Like I said, your voice does matter, but if you don't come, we don't hear it and you likely have ideas that we don't have.

Speaker 2:

That's why we need the community input. We need the community voice. We need to hear, because some of these things in the 2019 plan are probably things that that committee at that time didn't think of. I was on council but I wasn't on the committee because I wasn't a full-time city employee and I was working elsewhere a lot, but I'm sure we got a lot of new input and some of these things I'm reading right now didn't exist until that community input session, so that's very important. Yes, come out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, another thing that will be in the comprehensive plan is parks and recreation. So we do have the gorge activation and I know we've talked about this a few times, but maybe you guys can kind of give your input on it and when we see it starting, some of the stuff is moving along.

Speaker 2:

It's happening on Test Road right now, that end that canoe and kayak launching site, or landing site, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they started construction maybe two months ago and there'll be another one at the north end. So Whitewater River through Richmond is a huge blessing. We're finally activating that gorge trail, so I think we have three and a half miles of river through the city and two and a half miles or the gorge trail through the city, so it's also a walking trail. I was up at springwood yesterday. I did a. I officiated a marriage, a wedding, up there at that springwood chapel. So if you want an outside wedding, call the parks department and get the keys, rent springwood chapel. Out there in the woods, that tree canopy. Even though it was so hot yesterday, there was so much shade and a little bit of breeze, it really wasn't bad at all. But I noticed the trails there and there was a marking that reminded me that you can hike this whole Thistleweight Falls all the way through, and soon we'll have a lot more things happening down there. There will be landing spots that we don't have now.

Speaker 3:

It's beautiful out there off of Springwood, and that it's beautiful out there, I mean off of Springwood, and that also connects to the Cardinal Greenway from that trail as well. So, yeah, people should. I mean we already have great parks and rec and it's just going to continue to get better over the next couple of years.

Speaker 1:

That's quality of place, parks and rec are a huge part of quality of place, quality of life.

Speaker 1:

And JUCO. So they do JUCO every summer. It's just us kids outdoors. It is crazy how many kids come, how much fun they have. They go to the pool. They have the pack team from the police department come out and meet with them. They have the fire department they'll come out and then the counselors are great. So if you haven't checked out JUCO, check it out for your kiddos. It's already ongoing. I think registration's already done for the summer. Um, but parks department, follow them on facebook and just watch for them. Have your kids go out there. Um, I believe it's from 9 to 12. Um, I think they have something in the afternoon. I'm not quite sure. I don't?

Speaker 2:

yeah, you have to check the website check the website.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but I mean parks and recreation.

Speaker 2:

It's not just about having new parks or new amenities, it's also the programs that they can offer to the community and I don't know how many seniors are watching this, but if you haven't checked out the park senior center down on the south side of town, it's a very low fee. I was there a couple weeks ago and they've refelted the billiards tables so I I got to play some pool with some of the guys who are older than I am and that was fun because they're constantly making improvements down there. That's a great facility to pickleball all kinds of exercise activities, yes, and if people come just, there's a couple there that comes almost every day just to drink coffee, drink their coffee there because they have plants in the sunroom area and work on puzzles. And there's, yeah, parks Department pretty much does everything.

Speaker 1:

And I believe they just got some electric bikes recently too didn't they?

Speaker 2:

I think so yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Senior Center that is located on O.

Speaker 2:

On South O. So it was an old school down there off of Liberty Avenue, yeah, down toward Q Street, so probably is O.

Speaker 1:

Mm-hmm school down there off of Liberty Avenue. Yeah, down toward Q Street. So probably is. So just a quick recap. We've discussed what the comprehensive plan is. We want to get this message out again that our public workshop is going to be on Thursday, july 31st, from 530 to 630 at the Star Jeanette building. If you don't know where that's at, it is 101 South 1st Street here in Richmond.

Speaker 2:

It's in the Gorge Park right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, so that's going to be part of the Gorge activation. Once we get to that point, like they said, we're starting on Test Road. But if you're seeing this, tell your family, tell your friends, tell your co-workers. We need as many as the community to come out. Like I said, it's your voice that shapes this comprehensive plan, and if you're not there, then we don't know what you guys want. We don't hear your voice, so make sure you come out there. Mayor Dustin, thank you for joining me. I think this was very educational and if anyone ever has any questions, they can always contact me. They can find me on the city website or they can give me a call 765-983-7215. Or give me an email ldarnell, at richmondindianagov. That's Inside Richmond, the city's pulse. Make sure to join us next time.