Episode 30 - Darren & Lilly Caulfield - Children Should Not Be Separated From Their Parents

Episode 30

Guest - Darren Caulfield & Lilly McEldowney

On today’s episode for the first time ever on BFP, I am joined with 54-year-old Father of three Darren and by his side is his 21 year old daughter Lilly. 

In 2016, Darren Caulfield, a single father of three beautiful children wanted to create a private, safe, and neutral environment for parents and families who are going through difficult times to spend time with their children.

Darren, together with his mother, Pamela Caulfield, an experienced Social Worker who has over 30 years of experience working in the Indigenous, migrant, and community services sector, established Lilly Pilly to meet this need.

Darren is a Nationally Accredited AMDRAS Mediator, Accredited with the Australian Mediation Association and a Parenting Coordinator with Parenting Coordination Australia.

The inspiration of Lilly Pilly is Lilly McEldowney (nee. Caulfield). Lilly’s mum and dad (yes, Darren) separated when she was very young. Lilly was the original child representative on the Lilly Pilly Board.

Lilly comes from a Child Care background and is currently completing her Graduate Diploma of Family Dispute Resolution to become a Registered FDRP with the Attorney-General’s Department.

Lilly most recently spoke at the “ Queensland Families and Children Commission 2026 Youth Summitt”. Both Darren and Lilly are Qualified Justices of the Peace, JP (Qual). Lilly Pilly is very proud to have a ‘child representative’ in their constitution who sits on the board that represents the children of separated families. 

Darren, a Brisbane native who moved to Townsville at 15. After working in the mines in New Guinea, Darren returned to Townsville to attend James Cook University, where he met his Lilly's mother at age 30.

Three years into that relationship, their daughter, Lily, was born. Darren recounts the day he returned home to find a note stating that his partner and Lily had left, leading him to reflect on whether his work schedule contributed to the separation.

Over the next two years, Darren fought to stay in Lily’s life, making 112 round-trip flights to Townsville in the first year and 144 in the second year. By age three, Lilly was a Qantas Gold member; the airline staff knew them so well they even gifted Lilly a Dora the Explorer doll for Christmas. We also discuss these events in the context of the Howard Government's family law reforms regarding shared parental responsibility.

Five years later, Darren met a teacher at Lily’s school, with whom he had two sons. Unfortunately, that relationship also ended, and in 2014, Darren began a two-year legal battle to secure a judgment regarding his boys.

Darren, who opened his own supervision contact centre in 2016 after navigating the challenges of the family court system. In this episode, we delve into the operations of supervision centres, covering essential topics such as: 

- Intake processes and initial risk assessments.

- Determining required supervision levels.

- Handling corrections and child safety matters (low-risk vs. high-risk).

- Protocol for Amber Alerts and non-returns.

- The differences between privately owned and government-funded centres.

- Managing reports, notes, and subpoenas.

- General policies and procedures. 

Darren emphasizes that their role is not to dictate parenting styles, but to provide a safe environment, supported by 26 cameras across the property. We also answer specific questions submitted by my followers.

Additionally, I speak with Lilly about her journey from law student to childcare professional. She shares her story of finding her calling in education and her personal life since high school.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Father's podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal for us. If you're going through the family law court process, particularly as a father, then this podcast may be relevant to what you may experience. Some things we discussed in these episodes may be triggering, and if you suffer from any form of mental health-related conditions or subject to domestic or family violence and need any assistance, then please call 100 respect and the views and experiences discussed by people on our show are not necessarily the views and opinions of Broken Fathers podcasts or their guest speakers. We strongly advise you to seek your own independent legal and professional voice as the Broken Fathers podcast will not be liable, answerable, or capable for any loss of damage or litigation resulting from discussions on our platform. Right, this podcast is now in session. And guys, the judge is running later court. So whilst we wait, I'd like to take this moment to acknowledge our platform sponsor, Straight Up Construction. At Straight Up Construction, they take pride in delivering homework across every trade. From new builds to renovations, no job is too big or too small. Director Luke Miller and his dedicated team tackle every project with integrity, hard work, honesty, and a commitment to delivering superior quality results every time. Straight up Construction is built on the belief that strong foundations matter just as much in the bones of the home as they do in the heart of one. Family should stand strong and every loving parent should maintain their right to be a part of their children's lives. Straight up Construction believes that in Crazy Spirit, everyone deserves a fair go. That's why we're proud to have Straight Up Construction as our platinum sponsor. With their support, we continue to produce the Broken Fathers Podcast and shine a light on the struggles of men who have been let down by the system. Good morning, listeners and viewers, and welcome back to the Broken Fathers Podcast, Australia's first and only podcast dedicated to addressing family core issues from the perspective of fathers. I'm your host, Percy. Before I introduce my next guest, just a reminder the link for my podcast merchandise is in our bio on Insta, Facebook, TikTok, or just go straight to fkvx.au. Now, on today's episode, for the first time ever on the Broker Fathers podcast, I'm joined with a 54-year-old father of three, Darren, and by his side is his 21-year-old daughter Lily. In 2016, Darren Caulfield, a single father of three beautiful children, wanted to create a private, safe, and neutral environment for parents and families who were going through difficult times to spend time with their children. Darren, together with his mother Palma Caulfield, an experienced social worker who has over 30 years of experience working in the Indigenous, migrant, and community services sector, established Lily Pilly to meet this need. Darren is a nationally accredited Amdras mediator, accredited with the Australian Mediation Association and a parenting coordinator with Parenting Coordination Australia. The inspiration of Lily Pilly is Lily McAdowney. Did I pronounce that right? Thank you. Lily's mum and dad separated when she was very young. Lily was the original child representative on the Lily Pilly board. Lily comes from a childcare background and is currently completing her graduate diploma of family dispute resolution to become a registered FDRP with the Attorney General's Department. Lily most recently just spoke at the 2026 Youth Summit. Both Darren and Lily are qualified Justice of the Peace. Lily Pilly is a very proud to have a child representative in their constitution who sits on the board that represents the children of separated families. Welcome, Darren and Lily.

SPEAKER_06 3:43

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Thanks for coming on. Did I pronounce your surname right? Yes. Okay, sorry. Where were you born and what life was like for Darren growing up?

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Okay, yeah, so I was I was born in Brisbane at Martha Hospital, 1971.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

You Broncos supporter?

SPEAKER_04 4:09

Uh yeah, mate. I jumped between Broncos and Cowboys. Jump more cowboys. Grew grew up, and then when I was when I was 15 I actually shifted to Townsville.

SPEAKER_06 4:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

So then uh finished my schooling in Townsville, did an analytical apprenticeship at Queensland Nickel, just north of Townsville. Um and uh so yeah, yeah, yeah, so so I grew up in Towns. I had fun, always been around horses and animals and all that sort of jazz. Um so uh yeah, went uh did my apprenticeship at Queensland Nickel, came back down to Brisbane, worked a little bit, went sever spent several years in New Guinea working on Poopapua New Guinea in the mine's up there. Um came back from New Guinea, um started to go back to to university at James Cook University in Townsville, and that's where I met Lily's mother.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Nice in Townsville.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

Real quick, what school did you go to in Brizzy? Uh before you moved to so Brisbane, I went to Little McGregor Primary, then I went to Mount Petrie Primary School. Now Mount Petrie is now McKenzie. So when I went to Mount Petrie primary school, there were 78 kids in the whole school from grade one to grade seven. How many now? Now it's Mackenzie School, and God knows that would be probably thousands in this school. Then I went to Mansfield High School, then shifted up to Townsville and finished up at Pimlico High School in Townsville.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Um so how were you when you met Lily's mum?

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Uh what was I? I was 29, 30. Yeah, so we were we were 30. She was 29, 28, she's a couple of years, three years younger than me. Yep. Um yeah, we got along, had a bit had a bit of fun. Um, yeah, I was working going to uni and and electrical contracting and doing bits and pieces around. She was actually a flight attendant at that time at that time, and she was she was doing charter flights back and forth to the mines.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Um how long were you guys together before um you guys had had Lily?

SPEAKER_05 5:56

Um we were together for for about three years um before Lily was born. Yeah um and then yeah, had uh had had Lily.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

We we we actually shifted excuse me, um went from from Townsville. She actually got a job down in Sydney, flying down there. She was working for Flight West, they went went out the back door, so she got a job down in Sydney. So we shifted down to Sydney for near on 12 months and then thought this is just too expensive, let's come back. And uh we bought the property where I'm living at the moment. So I've been on the property for 25 years. Um yeah, and Lily Lily was born there on the on the property. Oh really? Um still still there. Same property, same bedroom. Um uh yeah, and all was fine. I I look back, I was I was working hard, I had a lot of employees, I had a big business, um, a lot of mining back then. Um I had two helicopters, one down here, one in Townsville. Um and I I look back and you think, well, was I away too much, was I working too hard? And basically the relationship just broke down. I flew back home one afternoon to a sticky note on the kitchen, but landed the helicopter, walked up to the house, the sticky note on the bench have left you. Um Lily and I are safe. I've still got the sticky note. Um and you yeah. How old was Lily at the time?

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Uh about 18 months. Oh wow. Yeah. So um what uh I'll pause you there because I always ask all my guests the same, mate. Can you remember when Lily was born? Like it was did it feel like a life-changing moment?

SPEAKER_04 7:39

Uh oh yeah, yeah. So Lily's Lily's mum, um, it was a bit of a difficult um. And so yeah, she she was taken away at the time. So uh and she didn't breastfeed, so basically I gave Lily her first bottle, I've changed her first snappy, um, got the first photos and everything with her. So it was it was lovely.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Mate, um what's what was going through your mind? Uh you come home, you you you f you you fly the chocolate back, there's a sticky note on the table.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

You're flattened. Yeah. Never yeah, uh you don't expect it. It's something you've never known before. You're not but you know, I never knew the family court existed, you know. Um But I can I can thank I I still to this day, I've got a lawyer that that lives pretty close to me at home. And um she she's been there for twenty-five years as well. And I I uh still to this day I can think we've had ups and downs over the last twenty-five years. Um but I can th the only reason Lily's sitting here is because of her um it happened on a Thursday before Easter when I came home. Um I was lucky I rang her up. It was Good Friday. She worked with me all over Easter. Um and then uh yeah, she went went to the court on uh Tuesday after Easter Monday to file the application for me and and then it uh it went on from there. So I this this this lawyer that lives close to me, I can yeah, I can thank thank her for everything. She went out of her way.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Um This is where the start of the long process begins, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

Yeah, we went went back and forth. Lily's mother uh actually went to to Townsville. I I agree, you can go to Townsville. We had a house in Townsville, she had a house in Townsville uh at the time, so I agreed for her to go to Townsville. I didn't know the system at that stage, so I then sort of got spent a few weeks, got my head together, and then went and spoke to a uh a well-known barrister in Brisbane and he just ripped in you. I said, Oh, I want my daughter back down the Gold Coast, you know, she lives down here, this is where we live. And uh he just sort of ripped into me and said, mate, no, you've you've let your daughter go to Townsville. Well she now lives in Townsville. And I went No no no no no no, she lives down here, and I sort of got a bit grumpy. Um So I said, Well, we're just gonna have to work and work with the mother and see what she wants to do. So that first year I did 112 trips from Brisbane to Townsville and back. Um and in the second year I know what's that Yeah, over two to two a week. The next year I did 144 trips to Townsville up and back because I had Lily and so I would I had Lily on every second weekend and then through the week. So my pockets were full back in those days. They certainly were after I finished the process. But I used to fly up on a Saturday morning, I'd I'd I'd catch a cab to to the strand, pick up Lily cab back to the airport on that plane, I'd fly straight back down home. We'd spend that Saturday night home, then after lunch Sunday we'd fly back up to town back up to Townsville. I'd catch a cab, drop her off back on back on the flight back down to uh to Brisbane, and then on Wednesday I'd fly up, spend two hours with her, and then catch the seven o'clock plane back down back to Brisbane. Um it was it's it's it's funny, funny times. Lily she became a a gold frequent flyer on her third birthday, and and back in those days when you get your gold frequent flyer card, you become a a complimentary Qatas Club member as well. Yeah. So uh so it was fun funny in those those days. Lily at three three years old. She had her she her family had to be accompanied by her to get in the Qatus Club, you know, because she was the member. But we had a um but also one Christmas we were coming back because we always used to catch the same the same flights and you and we got to know the the same crew. And so this one Christmas uh never forget it, this this courier shows up, it's got this big big box, and uh in comes this big box, and it's this big Dora doll, Dora the Explorer doll, and uh and it's just yeah, Merry Christmas, Darren and Lily from all the crew on QF7 or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

It's lovely. There's some lovely people out there for sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Could you remember much of obviously you're very young, can you remember any of those days flying all the time?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, look, not really. Like I feel like that was before. Yeah. Yeah, I was so young, but yeah, looking back now, it was it's fond memories, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah. So um So she's about three eight three at this stage? Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 12:27

Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, three, three, three and a half.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

And where do we go from here? Does court initiated the towns or we were going back and forwards.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

We had a few a few hearings. Um it was all all the proceedings were all in Brisbane. Brisbane, yeah. Uh so we were going back and forwards. What year was this? Uh so this was 200 2006, 2005, 2006. Yep. Coming in 2007. Yeah. So 2006, John Howard brought in the shared responsibility. Yeah. So that was a big a big shift. Um they were supposed to be the the shared care. I was I was involved in in politics back in back in those days. Um so it was supposed to be the shared care amendments where we were supposed to have you know equal equal shared care. It didn't end up being that. Um but it brought in a few a few things that were very good for family law, and it settled down a lot, be it the shared responsibility amendments. The the the initial presumption was that parents should so it was where the long-term decision making came in. Parents agreed to long-term decision making.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Did family court actually implement that like legislation that George John Howard brought in?

SPEAKER_04 13:36

Like, you know, when he brought in shared, were they actually letting it happen or I I I I I haven't read too many judgments from back in those days. Um he brought in the 60i, so the mandatory mediation. Uh so that that was brought in back then, so that was that was good. But unfortunately, since those days, 2011, Julia Gillard brought in the two the family violence amendments, and basically it's all rolled downhill to up until the last amendments last year, the year before, which basically all the the shared care responsibility the shared responsibility amendments now are pretty well all gone, and we're just I I I've been running Liddy Pilly for now 11 years. I've never seen no contact orders and the last 12 months I'm I'm seeing more and more no contact orders on mums and dads. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Um so yep, so it's about 200 six, did you say, 2007? Yeah, yeah. Um courts happening in Brisbane. What's some of the hurdles you're facing in in court?

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Well we we had we we both we both had very good lawyers um back back in those days. Lily um Lily's mother's lawyer now is actually a judge. Oh wow, I've got a bit of respect for her. She's one of the very few judges that I've got respect for. Um purely because we were we she got us to to to reach agreement. So we basically um came to consent orders. Uh I I agreed to assist her to buy a house. She shifted back down the Gold Coast, sister to buy a house down the Gold Coast. Um and we went week about with Lily from from then when she shifted down. So Lily was then went week about.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Okay, we week on, week off? Yep. Okay. Yep. So that was working for some time and then Yeah, yeah, that that that continued on until I met um. Your your next partner? Yeah, yeah. And is that when life sort of became hard again?

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Certainly became better shape, yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Yeah. It it's interesting you say that the the reel that I'm uploading tonight when I dropped this episode, um he literally says the same thing, and it just seems to be a common behaviour that I see whenever I have a father on when he meets a new partner. Um that's when life becomes hell again, trying to have access to his his children.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Mine yeah, mine wasn't mine wasn't with Lily. Mine was my new partner, was the problem. Not Lily's mother's mother's. Oh, really? Not Lily's mother.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Oh wow. Okay. No, no. Uh well, how did you meet your so how long how long have you been separated for now um before you met your next partner? Hey guys, just a quick shout out to our gold sponsors. MCH Industries are a mining maintenance specialist company supplying solutions to the coal mining industry in the Boland Basin and regional New South Wales. They supply superintendents, supervisors, leading hands, diesel fitters, tire fitters, auto electricians, HV electricians, and trade assistants to assist. The mining one-stop shop for mechanical trades. MCH Industries are always looking for good blokes to jump on the team, so check out their Instagram for more details. And are you looking to buy, sell, or invest in real estate? There's only one name that's been leading the way for over 123 years. Ray White. Ray White isn't just another real estate brand, it's a family business built on ambition, trust, and leadership. Today, it stands as the largest real estate group in Australasia, connecting people with homes and investments across the country. Whether you're a first-time buyer, a seasoned investor, or looking for that perfect home, Ray White is committed to delivering authentic local expertise. Because real estate isn't just about properties, it's about people, communities, and futures. And when it comes to trusted leadership, meet Alex Ilian, an ex-Army veteran to a dedicated real estate agent. Alex knows what it means to serve, to strategize, and to get the job done. Whether you're looking to buy, sell, or just have questions, Alex is here to guide you every step of the way. Servicing the Geelong, Bellerine, and Surf Coast areas. Ray White, the name you can trust in real estate.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Uh Lily Lily would have been five, six, six, or seven. So yeah, I had a good five years for myself.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

And then how'd you meet your next partner?

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Uh she was a school teacher at Lily's school. Okay, yeah, cool. Yeah, so went to a school, went to a school function, basically, yeah, met this girl, um, thought she's a school teacher. She obviously got child focused, so yeah, she wanted she wanted kids. I wanted more kids, let's make it happen. If it turns pear shape, we just go week about. Okay, no worries, high five, move on, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

And where do we go from here? Uh you have two boys with your two boys um with uh with this with the next partner.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

Um What was the age difference between them? Uh there's fifteen months between the two of them, so they're relatively relatively close, great little fellows. Um Yeah, it it it it turned pear-shaped very.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Was it did it turn pear-shaped between the two boys or after the two boys were born? Uh or were there sort of you know red flags or cracks in the relationship?

SPEAKER_04 18:38

It was it was cracks from day one. Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. That's um she got pregnant very, very early. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Um Did she I'm I'm gonna jump the gun here, John. Yeah. Did she not want you seen Lily because she was jealous of your your ex?

SPEAKER_04 18:58

I don't I don't know what what her motivations were other than money. Um, we we had our first our first trial and her property request, she never put in any property documents, she never did. And uh and we had the judge uh right at the start of the trial said, um, so you to her barrister, your client wants uh, you know, has got this request for a million dollars. And uh I don't have any calculations for this million dollars in front of me. I s I suggest it's just a nice round number. And her barrister goes, Yes, um yes, I'll I'll just take instructions, Your Honor, and turns around and he's gonna go no, we don't have any calculations for the million dollars, Your Honor. And he goes, Well, that's property then. Boof. Okay, move on, let's go to parenting. So uh so yeah, property property was ended then and there and we moved on to to parenting and from then on it's just been uh a nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

What year was this did did this start? Um court.

SPEAKER_04 20:03

Uh so to two two two thousand two thousand fourteen, two thousand fifteen? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um so after that that trial basically, yeah. So then it took two years to try and get a judgment after the trial. It's just ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Was there any different hurdles you face on your second journey in family court compared to the to your first journey when you were fine for Lily?

SPEAKER_04 20:31

Oh, all the the the the D V stuff. Yeah. Um back back with back with Lily's mum. Um, there was a d yeah, there was a D V allegation there, but it w it was withdrawn.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

Um with this one, it's just uh uh amazing allegations of me, allegations towards my father, towards Lily, to start and leave or with the police. I was going through a stage there. Um yeah, I've got got to know and through Lily Pilly, I've got to know and uh know our local police station quite well um because they're either coming up to my place for Lily Billy or they were coming up to my place checking out the DV allegations again.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Did you find I found in my journey, you know, um, you know, that it'd be three or four months between each court date, and you know, I was living down the Gold Coast, my ex-partner was living in Brisbane. But every time we got to a new court date, there was always new allegations. And it's just like, how can there be new allegations? Like, we haven't been together for years, I live down here, you live up there, and you just get stuck in this s revolving door cycle and you get nowhere because they're like, Oh, but there's these these new allegations. You're like, Man, what? And then you I'm focused on squashing them, and by the time you do that, you get to the next call down, and then there's new allegations and it's just, you know, this repetitive negative cycle.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

And a and and as the judge at my most recent trial where, you know, I got uh grumpy at my most in my most recent trial and uh and ended up getting rid of the lawyers. Um yeah, she just told me straight out she doesn't have to follow any rules of evidence. The rules of evidence are relaxed under the Act, Mr. Corfield. You should be aware of that. And I went, well why are we here? Yeah, that's right. You know if you're not going to follow any rules of evidence, there's and that's the family court. Yeah. Yeah, and people that have been through watching it will understand us, you know, but and I say and and and especially and I and I want to say with dads and with Lily Pilly, um I I actually know more mums now on no contact orders than I do dads. I wasn't expecting that. Mums and dads contact me.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah absolutely one of the mums as well doesn't drink never taking drugs um yeah because yeah um we'll we'll we'll get to the but I remember when I was when I had to do it all I all I saw was fathers you know um so yeah that's that's yeah quite quite interesting.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

Yeah and and that's where we with with Lily and I and and I and I say to the court and everyone says oh you it's it's biased against fathers and I go no no no it's it's not biased against fathers. It's biased against children. It's biased against children. I'm sorry you can um you have a yeah I'm sorry you you're that biological parent of that child for life. You can't change a biological parent of a child. So we'll finish if we can on your your second family court journey um how does that finish up because uh that's still that's still still ongoing still going um after the last last year and I got rid of lawyers we basically had uh we we came to an agreement um this time last year um the mother and I uh the mother's her she got her lawyer to drop consent orders I signed those consent orders in uh sent them back to to her good the job done I had my eldest son he wanted to come back and live with me he was living with me uh the we're an ICL so her lawyer said we've got to send the orders through to the ICL uh because the ICL has to approve she's a party to the matter the ICL didn't agree so that was then we had four hearings after that and a five day trial all because the ICL didn't agree with our consent orders that two parents had agreed to and the and the kids agreed to and then we had another family report written that family report agreed with the consent orders that the mother and I had agreed to for these two little boys. But we went all the way through trial um I can say plenty of things about the court but I would say probably another yeah so it would have been um I had 102 NA lawyers she had two or 102NA lawyers we all the the the the um the ICL and her barrister were legal aid funded and we all know who pays the judge's wage so I can say basically um from the mother and I reaching agreement it was probably another half million dollars to the taxpayer um for them to stop me uh from and Lily me from seeing my kids Lily from seeing her brothers that's what really shits me uh is the power that some of these ICLs hold you've you've both made an agreement the kids have m everyone's made an agreement let everyone just move on and for a perfect example when uh I went to trial um when we're supposed to go to trial um probably six about five months before we we we were going to go to trial I um I won my DV trial and I I had it um the DVO thrown out and my lawyer my legal team contacted the family report right I said well listen the first family report was based off all DV allegations we're gonna need a new one because I've since then squashed this um this this DVO and she said no it's alright we'll just go with the first one this was her words five months later we go to trial so Mike's is from England her mother flew over here from England we go to trial or we go to court and the morning of trial the ICL comes to both our legal teams and says I'll I I want to adjourn this because I want to update a family report me and my legal team said no we want this to go ahead even my ex and her legal team said we want this to go ahead both sides said no we want this to go ahead and the ICL has the audacity to tell us five months ago that we do not need updated family report waits for the dad trial people have flown here taking days off work paid money and she has the audacity to say oh no I want update like I was just sit and you know you sit there you can't say anything but I was just fuming and of course the judge goes no why it's all journey I was just like are you kidding me well I just it's a circus. Yeah well this ICL that I had through my trial is since I've been rung up by several parents um where she's now continuing to go into matters in the court where these parents want to come to Lillipilly to have us assist um see their parents and this ICL is is openly telling the court that the father the owner of the of Lillipilly has got current proceedings on foot in this court so they can't go to Lily Pilly.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

So isn't that a what would you say a breach of privacy or you know like you can't be saying that.

SPEAKER_04 27:25

It's obviously something yeah yeah it's um it it's disappointing that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

It is and you know I've always you know uh you know I'm Southboard um courthouse down here you bought a crossroad there's a cafe there like and I used to go there with my legal team and you you sit in there and you got the lawyers, the barristers, the judges, the play and they all talk you know but oh you know so and so I've got so and so's case I'm just sitting there going are you serious? You know so I'm sure there's things that go on behind without doubt. Just like you know there's stuff that goes on behind closed doors in the construction industry stuff that goes behind closed doors in the bike bully industry obviously there's stuff that goes on behind closed doors and certainly say a lot more we'll leave it for another point so you started that journey in you know what 2014 and you just come to an agreement about a year ago.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

Well we had trial back then back then um and then it it turned pear shaped uh three years ago um the the mother Lily and I went through a stage there 12 months we were getting uh stalked and harassed by text messages and phone calls by someone ringing me up th they ring me up and tell me that Lily hates me and Lily I was doing all this horrible stuff for Lily and I'd get these text messages. It was only until recently at this my last trial where I saw one of the police subpoenas where the the police actually arrested someone who was stalking me. But you you didn't know didn't know so I went to the police ask them ask them who they arrested they can't tell they won't tell me. Speaking to officers they say I was probably a a juvenile or someone but the the police have got their reasons why they what do you think for your safety you want to know who it is? I'd love to know who was who was stalking and harassing me. Yeah is that person still out there when are they going to start again? Right. I've got plenty of funny stories with Lily Pilly and and parents and parents that we've helped.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

So obviously during that time you started Lily Pilly Center in 2016. Yep. What uh how how'd you come about well wanting to start out in contact centre?

SPEAKER_04 29:34

I I I just I felt at that at that top well obviously the the second wife left um I'm this dangerous aggressive abusive alcoholic drug taking father um and I can only see my kids supervised. So we uh so I went to a contact centre here and then eventually we agreed for my mother patern the paternal grandmother to supervise me at that time. Lily was still going week about with me. So Lily was still living with us abusive alcoholic drug taking father. And um yeah and I just thought I I I have this beautiful big property um on ten acres with all the animals. I'm there by myself with Lily if my two little boys you know if if if they can't come and enjoy well why can't have other kids to come and enjoy it and other people. And I thought how can I appro improve the system? Okay I'll go back and do law. No I have no interest in doing law um okay I'll do my mediation studies which I did um then that sickened me because all I did is have two parties there that didn't want to reach agreement. They just wanted a 60 ICPO to go to court so I wasn't interested in that. What is something that is in this whole system is which is solely child focused? Well a contact center then we yeah I I have little little interest in the party's the parents dispute. All I know is you know what you have a child. We all know how that child came about whether it was five seconds five minutes five hours um the child's there the child has has two parents um and an extended family and they have a right to spend time with that that those parents and that extended family. So yeah off we went with Lillipilly how are we going to set up this business? Okay we set it up as an as a non-for-profit um we got all our registrations through the state registrations and then went through the the charity association federally um yeah got all our all our tax exemptions and all that sort of stuff um recently in Queensland we have the child safe standards uh child safe organization standards that have recently come out some which are great um so they they're a they're a good good guideline for for child safe standards um with lily pilly as you say with like all the blue cards jps all that that sort of stuff um my my main focus with Lily Pilly uh and with anyone that comes in there is to have an empathy for one for the parents but mainly for the kids um and to be able to have have that empathy for the kids that they're the ones going through it. So yeah and we continue on and and every weekend or through the week if we can help one one parent one child keep together and keep that connection it's worth it.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

So two what 2020 so you were about 11 then when when dad started the 2016? Yeah. Yeah um what for me um so the first con I won't say the the um the the name but the first contact center I went to down here on the Goldie actually I go along with her quite well though she's a nice woman I remember when I first did the consult. Yeah intake intake um I was just crying because I I was I just said look I'm here I don't know what's going on or how this works and um you had to fill out the form and you know I was crying because I just I haven't seen my daughter in ages you know I just and it said which which parent needs to be supervised and I just said like I'm not writing my name you know like I'd I'll fill out this form but I'm not writing my name you know this is crazy and then um they were really good we understand but it did it did um break me going to a supervised contact centre just because I just felt it was uncharted was me but it was just that you know I ha for the you know I'm sure you guys know for the first six weeks I only got one hour you know and that hour went like that and you know she was crawling at the time and it was just a really hard time for me. I think I cried at handover both saying hello and saying goodbye for the you know first three or so months. But um any I wasn't allowed to leave the contacts and I had to wait a couple months and then you know build your way up and stuff like that. And um but they were very understanding. Like if they I shouldn't well I'll say because I'm not going to say the name but it got to the point where me, my mum, my dad and the supervisor would have we would have a a bet at the end of the visit to see what the complaint would be today. And because every time I the supervisor take my my daughter down there would be a complaint I don't know what it is someone's ranking loan or the sock's a little bit wet or there's something and we would it got to the point where you know we had to find the positive and the negative like we'll we're having a bet of you know what it'd be and it was good we're not saying it's good they were taking notes to say we can see who's being the problem here you know what I mean so um but um yeah then uh the second one I went to uh and then then it got to the stage where I was just doing handover there. That's it. You know it was just handover. Yeah yeah obviously you build the you know got the reports it was all good showed the judge um um but then because she lives in Brizzy she wanted to meet halfway um so I said that's fair enough so we meant halfway but I didn't like the way I was treated at this second one because when I went for the intake there was three females there sitting at the table just me and they asked me questions. It was different from the first center it was just casual one-on-one intake the second one and I actually I remember I swear my daughter's life I was sitting there and I said I'm gonna remember this day and they said why I said because when this is all said and done now bear in mind I'd never thought I was going to do a podcast back then we were one in 2022 I said when it was all said and done I'm I'm gonna tell my story because you know this is I this is not right the way I'm being treated right now.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

You know you said interrogating me and making me you've been told one side of the story and I just And that's exactly it that's what that's a lot of people ask yeah why why did you start it and I I and I just straight out say well you wouldn't be seeing your child um if we weren't here. So that's one but then what what gets you is when you have a bloke like yourself in the room hasn't seen his child for three months he has a three or four year old little girl who gets out of the car from mum and she's where's dad he's in the room over there and they just run and uh and they run and his dad like yourself just in tears with this little girl and you just go that's why we do it.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Yeah yeah and you're good on you for doing it. I just didn't like the way oh and that's other contact centres exactly what Lily said in her in her um Queensland Families and Child Commission youth summit speech um yeah a room with a box full of toys and and you come in you're a criminal um can you take you know I want your phone I want your your your your your car keys um you're not allowed to take any any photos um I want you know your watch taken off I want everything you're not allowed to do anything you're a criminal you're not a criminal and you know to watch my mum and dad and my brother you know my dad it's today of this recording marks 30 years my dad's been working in in the prisons he's a 30 year correction today's his 30 year anniversary and um you know he went from being a correction officer still is but then all of a sudden when he came you know he had to ask when he could go to the toilet because you know they'll very and it was just hard because all this was you were lucky because other contact centres they won't allow extended family even in there.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Well I think grandparents they they won't even allow grandparents to come and spend time with these kids. And you go, what what what is the safety risk of if there's no restraints in any orders saying that these people can't see the kid, why can't the grand parents they're they're the extended family. They can't see this child either.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

And I I had to ask the judge because my ex would say no I had to ask the judge to put my parents name on the court order. You know and he and and and he did but I was just like man the length I had to go to you know so um and yeah then there was one incident um which really so again we're just doing handover and you know I'm in the room you arrived 15 minutes early obviously in the room um my ex will drop my daughter off and this supervisor brought my daughter in and she walked straight past me to the nappy change room and I said what are you doing and she said I'm just changing your daughter's nappy I said that's fine I can do it. She's like oh no your your ex wants me to do it. I said no I'm more than capable of changing my daughter's nappy and she's like oh no so and so wants me to do it. And I just I said hand me my daughter and she goes no no I'm doing it I get on the phone call my lawyer put on a loudspeaker and my lawyer says hand his daughter over immediately there's no call the court order says just a handover nothing more nothing he's not being supervised and you know that turned like afterwards I called the the manager or the owner and you know they apologized and said you know it was a miscommunication we didn't know that I said no you've your supervisor employee has taken orders off my ex which she shouldn't be doing and it left a sour taste in my mouth we're not there to tell you how to parent your child or to parent your child.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

We're there to make sure that that child has a safe and happy time when they're with you as the parent. How you parent that child is up to you. We're just there to make sure that child's having a safe and happy time. Every every child and that's different for every child and different for every parent will we'll gauge and I'll gauge and Lily can state it from herself I'll gauge the anxieties of the child how whether they're having fun because every parent's different every parent do do different things. If that child's having fun leave them alone they're having a good time with their parent there's no requirement to intervene. Mind you at Lily Pilly I've got 26 cameras around the property which are all voice and video get subpoenas for them they override pretty pretty quickly unless there there is an incident at the property. I'll pull the video but very very rarely but it's always there um whether that that's that's a motivation generally for the parents to always be on their good behaviour when they're there anyway. But they're in front of their child they're going to be the other parent is not there to antagonise them or intimidate them and it's not for us to intimidate them either. Yeah have a good time. Yeah as you say it's only one hour it goes like that. Goes like that.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah um well before we start cracking in the questions is there anything more on family court that we want to touch on before we're going to supervision contact centre?

SPEAKER_04 40:36

No, no I've just got some little little notes here that I've made but no generally um that's uh that's it we're gonna leave the the family court for another one.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

If you don't mind me asking um before we crack in the try and do your timeline but um do you remember much from when you know uh your your younger days, you know when after mum and dad's but obviously you're 18 months at the time when you originally split so you know but was there any can you remember much from a young age maybe when you're you're six or seven years old or to be honest I yeah I can't really and I feel like that's sort of good in a way.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Yeah of course because the memories that I do have are from like an older age and they're all good memories. So I don't really want to keep the ones before that when the conflict and everything like that. I feel like it's it's good that I only have the good memories from then on really and what what school do you go to? Uh I went to CAC.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

What is that?

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Yes that's at Cumra you have yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yes that was great. Yeah nice um and so when you finished school did you so you would have already had the center by the time she finished school and then did you help dad straight away when you finished school or not really so I I sort of helped here and there you know and I was always there but yeah no I went off to uni after school so I I got multiple scholarships. So well done yeah I got uh scholarships from Bond scholarships from Griffith um and TAFE and everything like that. And but I chose to go to Bond so I did um law for a semester. I got a scholarship to do law. Um enjoyed it yeah well I mean I thought that was something that I wanted to do. I mean having the experience through the Lipoli as well um I knew that uh the system has to change so I thought you know maybe I'll get a little bit of knowledge under my belt and we can we can do something with that. But after a semester I just I don't know it was just like I loved it but it wasn't where I could see my future like I really I value family um most importantly and I could just see that career just really overriding my opportunities with like having a really nice family and everything like that. So I wanted to put that um first. Good on you. Yeah so then I thought oh do I go and do teaching at Griffith um because I always wanted to be a teacher too that was like my aim was to do law and then do a masters of um education and then be a teacher. Um but I was like no I think I'm just going to do something in childcare, something with children because I really value children and I think that they're so important to the next generation. So I went to TAFE and I got a a scholarship to do a certificate for in in child care education and care. And so I did that and I loved it and I worked at a childcare centre and it was great and I loved being that um support in the children's life and you know being there for them. And so then I went on to do my diploma um in early childhood education and care and then um yeah and that was great and then I had my son Oh and congrats.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

Yeah yeah I have my son's so your granddad and I can say from Lily ever since she was born or could speak oh she wanted to be I want to be a mum.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yeah I want to be a mum yeah well I mean I met yeah my husband my number husband in grade ten at school three numbers numbers yes so we um dated from grade ten onwards and went to form all together, did the fairy tale, everything like that, got married, um yeah and then had my son now so that's that's where we're at.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Good to hear a good story, you know? Um how long you guys have been married now?

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Oh we've been married oh gosh um more like going on two years now yeah and w where about did did you get married?

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Oh we got married um at the beach yeah yeah yeah it was beautiful the weather held held up that day it did yeah it was windy but that's okay um well um supervision contact centers how where should we start okay for all the listeners at home because I know there'd be a lot of fathers that are probably in court right now how what what would the the first process be? Be more likely y you've separated you know most likely she's put your name on the DVO which means no contact you've gone to court the judges said um you can see your child um but you have to go to supervision contact centre so I just want to try and get the first step just for all the viewers and listen at home this is when a father would come to your supervision contact centre and go, this is a court order can I I want to apply to use your centre? Is that even early days.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

Get on the front foot. You know the allegations are going to get thrown at you you know you you're gonna get a D V thrown at you. And there's nothing you can do. Yeah that's just that's just part of the course you've got to get you've got to get the D yeah that that one party's got to get the D V on the other party before they start the family court application. But yeah ring around all the private contact centres uh we're all very different as as you say. So ring around get on their websites have a look try and get you know it's it's round peg round hole um trying to try and find the right the right place for you um and uh so that at least you've got that ammunition when you go straight in we're not getting the phone call from a lawyer who's at court at that time saying have you got ammunition availability so ring us up have a have a chat to us I'll soon fill them in about all the other contact centres and and who's around um I was speaking to a friend down in Sydney she's been doing it for for 15 years down in Sydney as well she she operates very differently to us. She operates generally off site to to to us where we're only on site at the property. So yeah for first first step and if you get you get that you'll either you'll either want um you could you could get it for for changeovers where you don't have to be supervised. Or or or or it'll be supervised time initially you're generally going to get all these allegations thrown at you where where the judge is going to take the take uh take the course of look I I haven't tested I haven't tested any of these these allegations yet let's just stick with a bit of supervised time. But go with your supervised time. You've got a third party there watching you with the child as well. So that third party when it comes to court can write a bit of a report and and say that you know there's there's there there's no problem or they'll raise a problem with you if there is. Every place will have some form of intake um be it an interview. Ours is just an online intake form we don't charge anything for for an intake. Because our role basically we're there to to um to to just follow your court orders or your parenting agreement or whatever. I'm not there to tell you how it should work. You tell us what you want and we'll facilitate that. Yeah fill out that intake form we'll we'll come back fire across the other side to say that they're they've you filled out the intake form it's time for them to fill out the intake form. They'll give us a quick both of them give us a quick phone call so I can y you can see we'll organise some time they'll come they'll have the first visit. We'll do a bit of a risk assessment on them during that during that first visit on how much uh supervision they require and yeah and basically we just take it take it from there.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Is there any has there ever I don't know if you're allowed to comment is there ever a case or is there ever scenario where you would assess and go no this is too high risk? Or like you know uh is there ever is there ever a reason where you you could say no we're not gonna take you guys on here in our centre because of XYZ? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 48:16

We've had some duties over the years. Um I I'll always try to say no I I I can't remember one unless unless there's too many kids. Like we'll have we'll have corrections, we'll have child safety, we'll have we'll have family law family law the family law stuff's a gener generally just TV they get along child safety and corrections can be can be a little bit different. Whether guys whether they've they've just got out um they've been inside for three six another five years um they're out on parole tracking anklet to me they're still a parent whether they're a mum or a dad um that child they're still that child's parent and and let's let's try and get them reconnected. The last thing I want is another suicide victim. So yeah we've yeah we've had the the whole the whole lot we've yeah we've had a couple we've had one just recently last year which was an Amber alert mum decided she didn't want to bring the child back for a changeover. So that was uh yeah get the the police involved. Yeah amber alert uh is that straight to AFP or um yeah so they go through the QPS and then the Q and the QPS then take it take it from there the AFP will be for the recovery order and they organise all that.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

So we'll go back so once someone comes in they've done the online intake and you go yep we're happy to have you on board you speak to both parents um then I suppose um they work out a date that suits the b both the and then I suppose you have your hourly rates weekdays weekends yep it's all on the web so we'll we'll have a low risk and a high risk rate. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 50:01

So a high risk rate will be where there's where there's child safety or corrections involvement. And that that that's generally because Lily and I will make sure there's two of us there.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

So when you say child safety or corrections involved what does that mean?

SPEAKER_04 50:15

They've come via the child safety department or they've come via the corrections they haven't reached their own agreement sort of in in family court.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:26

So we'll we'll get phone calls from the child safety department and we'll and to try and keep um to organise uh visits between parties that way as well. Yeah okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Alright so you got your high roots, low roots is there is there ever maximum hours you can do the way you max it out is someone might say can I do it just an element of cost at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 50:46

I'm like a a lawyer. Yeah yeah okay um the the there's there's the government funded ones your relationships what is that one? I didn't realise it was relationships Australia and all those all those they're they're government funded. They'll when you ring them up and and a lot of the guys they ring them say oh they've got a six month wait list. Well you've got to remember they'll only operate on their funding. So if they've only got funding for four hours on a Saturday wanting to operate supervised visits that's all they operate.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

I have heard people say that it was too booked out big big way.

SPEAKER_04 51:16

And that's the reason. It's not that there's so many supervised visits it's just that they'll only operate when their funding's available. And they can they can also only do twelve months of supervisions. So if you've been going to that centre for twelve months they can't help you anymore. Okay. But the private the private ones like us no there's no limit there's no um yeah time time costs or anything like that and I'll try where I can to to um yeah to assist assist parties if they're having a bit of trouble.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

What's some um frequently asked questions that you guys get from you know uh parents you know c can't come into a a contact centre.

SPEAKER_04 52:01

I s I I suppose it's like um yeah the the the the different requests on who can come to the visits, who can't come to the visits um straight up my response is well I've seen your orders. Or one for the the the D Vs as well. DVs now generally will have your family law exclusions in there. So if you if you look down okay you can't go within a hundred metres except for having time with a kid. You're not allowed to contact that party um except for organising contact with the the child. So you can I and and I and I say to the the mums and dads you can send a text to the other side and if the D V's there and the exclusion's there I'll read the D V, I'll see the exclusion and I'll tell them you can contact the other side be respectful and it it'll look good if you send a nice respectful message attach it to your affidavit. Just don't end the message with you know the what will you expect? Don't put that there. That's what's going to knock you over the edge. But just you know would that would there be a chance I could see little Jojo this this Saturday between 11 and 12 at Lily Billy.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 53:13

She'll come back yes or no.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

And um you guys take notes obviously when I went there I mean the whole point was so the judge could see the rapport I had I guess with my daughter if they know if they request a report.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

Like I've appeared before um several judges up at court um and m most of them will say we we know what you're gonna say Mr Gaulfield asked you to come in in person.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Yeah not just notes.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

Yeah yeah yeah right yeah so I I'll just say that you know that there was no concerns for me.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

Has there ever been a time where you you've had to say I don't know if you're allowed to say like as in has there ever been cases where you've had to say I I do have a concern this person should be supervised. Yeah absolutely okay yeah yeah and have you ever been called to court as well?

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Um I haven't personally but I mean we I do the reports and everything like that. Um and they do get requested quite frequently whether it's from a lawyer or whether it's the party themselves wanting it um to present it in court themselves.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Who is allowed to request the notes is it only like the law law firm and um like if if if I was a father in in supervision context now could I re request I couldn't I could say either party can request it or the lawyers um request it through the parties as well.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

Yeah. Yeah okay um I'm sure you've has there ever been any heated handovers? Or when I say heated you know the other I'm sure you've had a a a parent that's always a bit of a pain at handover.

SPEAKER_05 54:41

Oh yes yeah regular.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

But generally they generally they settle down um we'll we'll stage will stage changeovers sort of different depending on the parties and depending on the matter a lot of times. My my aim and as with a lot of the judges will say supervision is a stepping stone to be unsupervised and then spend time with your child. So I've been known to push the boundaries a little bit um when that when you know one party says that the child doesn't want to go and she shows up and she cries all the time in the car coming to supervise visits and all this sort of stuff. So well I'll make sure that when we change over and the car stops down there I'll make sure that daddy's over there in the room and she can see the door of the room and the little child comes out of that and runs to Dad and I'll get the comment I don't want to see him or her blah blah there's a D B. Oh okay sorry I won't do that again. Yeah but they've just seen the child run to the parent so that's done and it's all on camera.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Do you guys have the um policy where you the one parent has to arrive 15 minutes early stuff like that. And I think that's a good policy to have and I don't know how it came into play you got you'll probably be able to say but I feel like it came into play because I remember um you know my ex was claiming that I was breaching DV and I got a phone call from Pipper police station one time saying that um I had a handover at this certain street you tried to run her off the road and I said hold on what time and he said the time you know five past eleven. I said well that's perfect because I'll get you to contact the supervision contact centre because my daughter gets picked up that they have a policy in place like a standard operating procedure that once my daughter gets picked up I have to wait there. I can't leave that centre until quarter past eleven. They they let me go. So between eleven and eleven like I'm I'm already in the centre anyway but you know you you say five past eleven impossible because I'm not allowed to walk out of that building to quarter past eleven.

SPEAKER_04 56:47

And I feel these policies got in place because of this because of the so-called well we changed it back in the day back in the day the early days of relationships Australia used to be where the the okay let's go the stereotypical mum dad mum would drop the child to the centre the child would then have 15 minutes to settle before then dad would come to spend time with the child. Dad would then leave the centre mum would then come the child would settle mum would come and pick the child up that um I just so you're um so you this is a D V family of aunt so you're telling me dad knows exactly where mum is mum's dropping the child off he's waiting down the street she's gone and then at the end of the visit dad dad leaves and you wonder why mum doesn't come back and pick up the child. So that's why we change it to exactly that that the that one one parent the parent to be supervised shows up at least 15 minutes beforehand. So the other parent knows where that parent is inside. So they can then drop the child off comfortably they can drive to the centre comfortably they know where that parent is there's not going to be any incidents. The child knows where the where the other parent is they're at the centre waiting. So drop the child off at the end of the visit that parent knows they can comfortably come will take the child out to the parent sh she or he can leave we'll hold the other parent there a lot of times I enjoy that because then I can also have a bit of a debrief with the other parent you can settle them down. It's high emotion they've just spent time with their kid they're grumpy they can't spend more time with you settle them down assist them with the system and uh then let them leave on their way after that.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

I've had um actually uh he's a veteran he goes can I take photos of my kids when I see them should I video record it in case of accusations what questions I there's a few I'll we'll do one by one. Can I take photos of my kids when I see them?

SPEAKER_03 58:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 58:39

Depends on court order I guess or the center if there's no restraints in court orders sometimes there will be there will be restraints on photos in court orders. If there's no restraints in court orders I'll say no that that's that's fine but there's a little thing called section 121 in the Family Law Act I say to everyone read section 121 of the Family Law Act and that's basically where you can't really identify anyone who's going through family law proceedings. Everyone does it no one gets prosecuted but there's always going to be that first so don't take photos of your child post them on your social media say you know me and Jojo having a happy time full stop. Yep. Don't mention family court proceedings or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Yeah because I remember the first centre I went to they had a policy in place that um you you weren't allowed to take photos on your phone they had to take it on the on the supervision centre phone and they sent it to you at the end of the day. I I I don't know if all centres are like that.

SPEAKER_04 59:37

I put I think the second centre I went to wasn't like that but I suppose it we don't they can take they can take photos they can do whatever they like so long as there's no restraints in you the court orders um and just say don't don't don't go silly with the photos because it's going to get you in trouble. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

Should I record should I video record it in case of accusations?

SPEAKER_00 59:58

Well I mean we have the cameras.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

Well yeah you guys already have cameras but that's why the supervisor's there is that's why yeah you're the third party and and even a even a judge of n of in my own personal manner that I've been chastised for spending time with my kids other than that with with other people's kids I've I've never been criticised or chastised or anything like that. Generally my you know what I state is is fact.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

Yep. What questions should I avoid asking my children that will get me a bad report any other bad reporting actions to avoid?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

Just like um try to stay away from the like personal questions like where do you live like sort of what school you do you go to you sort of have to judge it as well like how much do you yourself already know and how much do you know that the other party is okay with you knowing but try not to push the boundaries there. Otherwise the other kid um well the ki the child depending on what age they are they'll go back to the other party and say look dad's asked me all these questions mum's asked me all those questions and then that doesn't look great.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:02

Yeah then it just creates this don't interrogate the child don't don't interrogate the child through the visit and then when you pick the child up if it if you're on the other side and you're picking the child up from the visit don't interrogate the child driving home from the visit either. Let that child be a child and be comfortable.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

That was for Rhino if if if he's watching um if you get a chance can you please ask why does the reports that the supervisor generates not have any true weight on determining the need for being supervised? Maybe he's had a bad experience. Because for me when I got my reports in it played a big part the judge was like okay we've got no concerns I suppose you know you know it's a dip what judge case by case and different yeah and different supervisors.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:48

Lily Lily generally does most of the reports and she'll she'll put on there that we we don't consider this party requires supervision.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

He also says he says the judge's name on it so he says Judge so and so told me three years of GLINE reports only shows you can behave when being watched so what was the point of the reports being filed in and submitted if they had no weight on if supervision if supervision was to be lifted sounds like he just had a bad judge.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:16

Bad experience bad judge bad ICL bad bad everything yeah it's um yeah we've all we've all been there.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

Yeah I feel for you mate because yeah it's uh wasn't the case for me you know and I yeah um how many of his clients are actually worthy of a contact centre and then in brackets so how many are actually dangerous? I don't know if you could I don't know if you're about to require supervision? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:43

Okay so I and I know why the judges do it. But basically so to err on the side of caution? Well to remember to remember okay D D V is slate state legislation parenting and family court is federal legislation so parenting. So a D V is generally you can go and get your D V go within 100 metres and all this sort of stuff but a D V still doesn't determine who that child lives with. So you can still get that parent get that child and take that child back to your place and that child is living with you. It's at the discretion of the police whether they want to come and get that child or not because parenting is a federal issue. So until you get your first hearing in court and you get a federal order stating that if you read federal orders, the first thing on a federal order is the child will live with and spend time with. Until you get that live with order, there is nothing anywhere stating where that child should live. So a a judge will will have to go one or the other just to stop the tit for tat, to stop someone from going and pinching that child from the childcare centre and saying I've now got the child and giving them the two up on the other side. So that's that's that's why judges will make a supervised contact early days just really to to try and drop the conflict. It's not that someone's dangerous in your previous question there do people require supervision yes and no but it's there just to reduce the conflict because both parties are going to use this child as a tit for tat if they can.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Yeah yeah I remember the the first center that I got along with you know they they pretty much say listen we we understand your situation we know we don't believe you need to be here but it's unfortunately it's the system and and the court orders and stuff like that. Um what should what should f fathers be prepared for instead of walking into a place feeling like a deer in the spotlights?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:49

He also says what are some good tips for fathers on how to carry themselves that sets them up for the better outcome for the future just be um open to the experience like it can be quite like intimidating coming to a supervised spiritual contact center and you're like as you said like why am I here you know like they don't feel they need to be here but just see it as an opportunity to see your child and as a footstep into seeing them more often um yeah just a stepping stone at the end of the day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

Yeah I feel like um I was thinking to one father one time and he was saying that um actually I was thinking they're one of the contact centers but when he was in there you know let's just say I I think his child was starting to get a little bit loud but he didn't want to tell his child to be quiet because he just thought well if I tell my child to be quiet in a respectful way they might write something down to say that he's you know and he felt like I was in a synthetic environment 'cause I'm like, how do I act? He was trying to be himself but he couldn't because he didn't you know so I can understand it's a confidence your confidence is absolutely knocked.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:51

Absolutely you're going through this system which is just it's uncomfortable as hell and no one knows how they should you know should I should I be myself or should I not Be myself.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:01

Speak to the supervisor, ask the supervisor. If not, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:06

Parent the child.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:07

If if you've got to elevate your voice a little bit and pull the child in line, pull it in line if it's a you know rat bag little two or three year old.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

Um uh yeah, okay. Um obviously you can bring your own food and all that. Uh that that that's what I used to do. I used to bring my own lunch box with. Yeah, you can bring all that type of stuff, yeah. Um what is uh what is the process when he sees that a dad is getting stitched up and shouldn't even be on supervised visits? Does he write a report immediately so that they can seek a new hearing?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:41

No. Generally, I I don't want to get involved in your matter. Yeah, I'm I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

You're just there to do your job role in itself.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:50

Yeah, we're there to make sure that child's having a safe and happy time with the other parent. Um we will we will write a report, um, but generally not after the first visit. Yeah. Uh it'll take a first a couple of visits.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:03

Yeah. Um there's a bit of swearing in this one. It if it all starts with Lodge from the line X in the police force, no investigation to find out the truth. Why is it taking away my children's teenage years from their father seven years ago? I had to kind of take a lot of screen words out of there, so it makes sense. I can understand what he's saying, because you know, I know that there's genuine TV out there, we know that. But I do believe that there's a lot of fake TV.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:41

And when I say that, they're using it to gain an advantage, whether it be you know, I've had I've had several several matters, and I suppose I could uh share uh some funny ones that I could share with you. Um but yeah, I've had some of the the the dad are quite rough dads come up, and I have one that I'll I'll never forget. Um where he he came up, he had a a beautiful little four-year-old girl. Mum mum came. Um and yeah, so so so dad, dad came, he had just just standard facial tattoos, and um he was quite a rough bloke, but he's a great dad. Beautiful three-year-old girl loved him. He spent his two hours with his little girl, mum came back, and um mum came to the door and said, I want to speak to him. Can I speak to him, please? This pretty little blonde blonde lady. And it was a Friday night, um it was about half past six. Friday night, I think it was half past four, half past six. And I said, uh I said, Okay, it's not the time to talk to him, we we can leave that for another time. No, no, I need to speak to him, I need to speak to him. And um and and I said, Oh, okay. So I went inside, saw him, and he's like, I wonder if I can speak to her. I said, Can you just she wants to speak to you? Can you just speak to her really, really quickly? And he came out and all she did sh and she just started going off, Can you please stop what you're doing? Can you please tell tell everyone to stop what they're doing? Please stop what you're doing. And uh yeah, she was obviously um I l and I I looked straight after that. She was obviously getting death threats. Um and uh and that was a real horrible one. And I thought uh and I thought after the and I just and I pulled it up, so now it's the other time, please go. The little girl was fine, she sort of didn't know what was going on. I pulled it up pretty quickly. But she left with a little girl and dad left. And after that I thought, do I do I call the police, whatever? And I and I just thought to myself, well, these parties are well known, but they'd be well known to police. And that was yeah, never saw them again. And uh still still to this day I sort of you know worry whatever happened happened there. Um but then yeah, I you know the the the sad the sad stories. Um so three years ago I had three uh three of my employees actually um suicided within twelve months, which just about knocked me over the edge. Um three of your employees. Yeah, yeah, two two of them were definitely family law related in China. Oh, so they were going through it too. Yeah, yep. Um and that was that was just that was horrible. Um I tried to you know speak speak to these guys, you try and help them, and then eventually they go one hung himself in Townsville, the other one we don't know, but yeah, we're just riding back to Toomba, put a motorcycle hundred clays an hour straight into a a semi-trialer and uh on coming oncoming truck and then the other one blew his house up. Filled it up with petrol. He was in the lounge room and uh called the police for a welfare check. Gave him a gobel. They came over early in the morning, as soon as they knocked on the door, the roof blew off the house, the windows blew out. Um the horrible thing was they got him out, he survived for three days and then passed away. And he had three teenage kids and I went to the funeral, and that was just heartbreaking to see these teenage kids putting a rose on their dad's casket, who was the same age as me. Um Yeah, we've had one dad, beautiful dad, had three-year-old little girls coming up being supervised, he had a couple of visits. I I could see he was living in in his van that he would drive and supervise um and he wasn't working, and and I'd always chat to him and then this one Sunday he was the the next Sunday I was due for a visit. Mum showed up, but no, he hasn't showed up. Tried to call him, um he didn't answer his phone, and yeah, mum called me back at four o'clock that afternoon and then found him passed away in his van. Um and and I said that three it was a three or four-year-old little boy it was. Um and I that just yeah, that was heartbreaking because this little boy now is gonna grow up the rest of his life without a dad.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:39

Um yeah, we've had a heavy mate.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

Yeah, I had a mum, yeah. So funny uh funny one actually it was a few years ago and uh I'm lying Christ Christmas Eve and I'm about to see my my little boy's Christmas A uh Christmas Day the next day.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:56

So I had an early night, sound asleep in my bed. At the property I've got security gates at the front. I've got a 300 metre driveway coming up to the house and a large, large house, it's just me there. And so so nine o'clock, I I'm sound asleep in my bed. And I go, Darren, Darren, are you alright, Darren? I wake up from my bed, ah, and there's this woman standing over top of me, going, You okay? And I'm what the up and and next she sorry, sorry, sorry, and here down the stairs, and she's running down the stairs and running. And just as I sort of get to do when I turn my TV on to the security cameras to see what the bloody hell's just going on, just to see her jump the gates and get in a car and the headlights come out of her car. So then I rang triple O and uh said, Oh look, I've just just had a visitor. Um, yeah, that's all right, Darren, I've got a car on the way. He's just hanging tight, and with only a few minutes, sirens and and and in come the police to open up the gates and up they came. These two young constables, you know, 10 o'clock on a Christmas Eve doing the Christmas Eve shift. They say, Oh, can you open the gates again? Because we've got the dogs coming up. And actually, something straight out of the movies, you know, these dogs come up, and next I've got these two dogs running around the property.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:07

And we're there, because I knew exactly who it was, and these young constables go, do you know who it was? I said, Yeah, I know exactly who it was.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:13

Um and next that one of the dogs guys come over, quite experienced bloke, and he just comes straight over and goes, mate, um professional or personal business, and I'm going to mate business, business, I'm telling you, it's business.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:28

And just as I'm speaking to this dog go, ding, my phone goes. And I and I the police officers there, I go, show the police officer, hi Darren, sorry, sorry for just breaking into your heart. And yeah, she, you know, she was obviously high on meth or ice and had to come and I don't know, save me or but I look back and you laugh. Um if she wanted to be dead, I'd be dead because I'd sound asleep in my bed, I'd you know that but you just laugh um at these these silly, silly things that happen. Um we had another one, another one I'd do very quickly.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:05

So uh we have we've had I had this mother coming, they're all mother's stories, the dad's story is generally sad, the mother's ones are quite funny. Um this mother coming up, she was spending time, she had this three-year-old little girl, she was living with dad. Dad was dad dad's lovely, lovely, bright big tough trawlot down uh down down New South Wales, a fisherman. But yeah, he had this little girl, mum, had had a few drug problems in the past. But so she was coming up having supervised visits. This this one day she she drives up, she's got this brand new Hylux Ute. She drives up with one of her girlfriends in there, and out they get in this Hylux Ute, and they get out and they've got the the blanket. It was a little girl's birthday a few days before, so they get the blanket out and they set it all up and they've got all these big fluffy toys and they lay them all out on the ground, and it was just absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:53

This little girl just goes, Oh wow, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:55

It's a nice car there, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:57

And so dad, so dad comes up for the visit, and dad gets out, and we change over this little girl, and I give her give her to mum, and mum's had a good time.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:06

And dad goes, Um, you didn't see the news last night. And I go, Um, no, well, no, we we don't get the New South Wales TV up here. He says, Oh yeah, um, uh that that's that car.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:19

So she'd she'd gone to one of the surf breaks down there stolen, stolen this car. And then he then he keeps going on the news. And then there, and then K K Kmart, I won't say which Kmart it was, two two women stealing all these toys from Kmart. And here's the video of these two women with all these toys running out of Kmart. So I'm there with Dan. And all we can do is laugh. I've got a New South Wales plates on it. I've got that's the car, there's all the toys. And he says, I went to I went to New South Wales police. They said, Where where is she now? She's up in Queensland. Oh shit, mate. So I'm back at the Queensland Cops. They said, Well, it's a New South Wales car, mate, we'll get on to it on Monday, you know. So we just said watching Mum and this little girl just have an absolute ball. All these toys that she just stole up from Kamar the night before. Did she come back the week after? I didn't know I I think they sorted out there a little bit after after that, but uh I don't I don't know what what would have happened to her. Obviously, something would have happened to her after that, but uh that's uh that's one of the funny stories you don't forget.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:34

Have you got any funny stories you remember?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Not really. No, it's been pretty pretty mild. Which is good.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:43

I'll finish these questions. Um how did he start uh how did he start it? What was the process? What was the challenges setting it up with the business, the Supervision Contact Center?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:02

Um not really, just getting the word out there. It's the same as setting up any business, just start start from scratch.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:11

Are you allowed so many um I don't know, rooms? Like is it?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:16

They've they've tried um uh several times over the last few years, they they want to regulate Subies contact centres. And uh and it and it is a uh a difficult one. Um each state can do that, as Queensland's done with their Child Safe Standards and Child Safe Organization standards. So we we would come under that. Um but then the federal uh say the family court regulating supervision, um, what's required for a supervisor? Well then it comes back to well why so I say to a party you you don't you don't have to be supervised. If they say you have to be supervised, well then okay, can a family member supervise you? Can can a grandparent supervise you? Uh if it's dad, can the paternal grandmother supervise you? If it's mum, can the maternal grandmother or grandfather supervise you? Try and get the court to approve that. Um okay, then what qualifications does the paternal grandmother have to have? Why does she have to have a blue card? So it's a difficult one to to try and regulate supervision. Um, but a a contact centre is another um organization that's involving children, so you you then have to be aware of all your your child safe standards and and all your qualifications and experience for your staff.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:30

Yeah. Well, so uh gentleman here, uh I'm sure he won't mind me saying his name, Michael Sturden says, No question, just a statement. Thank you, and I'm grateful for the work that centers like this do. It was a good introduction back to my children after they were withheld from me for nearly 12 months. I was my I was myself, and so were my children. The report from the center reflected my relationship with the children. If this is the only way you can see your kids do it, thanks again to the center. So yeah, that's a good one. Thanks. And you know, like it it is um, you know, now that I've been through it, like for me at the time it was, you know, a a haunting ex experience, I guess. But like looking back now, if that's the only way you're gonna see your kids, no do it. You know what I mean? You know, like you you you exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:20

Okay, it's horrible and and it and Lou and I speak regularly, why why are we why why have we got a bloody why why do we even exist? You know, we shouldn't really we shouldn't have to exist. But that's coming from a family law side of things and the family law courts. When you get then to the child safety and even the correction corrections? Okay, yes, we do exist because then we can start a bit of a reunification process with with the child.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

Yeah, I didn't even realise that the whole correction side and you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:49

Child child safety then, yeah, then you have your your your different elements of risk and what's what's involved in those families. There's obviously reasons why, you know, whether a child's removed or whatnot. And so if that child has been removed, we'll have the the the caring family bring that child to spend supervised time with the parents.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:07

Um so there's diff there's different reasons that why parents have to be supervised, not just a family family court perspective. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:15

Um is it right or legal for the other parent to demand and set up supervised visits with no court orders or legal documents to say it needs to be done to have contact, just because the other parent decides so.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:28

That's and and I would say that parent has had advice from their lawyer, purely you haven't got any parenting orders, so therefore there's nothing stopping that other parent from not giving the child back.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:39

So is that other parent trying to set them up in a way? Because if you agree to come into a centre that when there's no orders in place, are they trying to say, well, he's agreed, so he he must feel that he needs to be supervised. Is it is it a s kind of a setup tactic? No. I don't think it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:54

No. Um yeah. I mean it could be. It could work both ways.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:00

But it work both ways. You going to a supervised centre can show that you are child focused, you want to you want to reduce the conflict, you're really you're you're uh you're willing to do anything um to to uh to get along with that child. It comes back to uh in my head, back to 2006 with John Howard, the old section 60cc3C, um, which was bought in, which which got taken out immediately, um, was the ability and willingness of each of the parents uh to facilitate and encourage an ongoing relationship with the other the other party. Whether they've taken that out they've taken it out and thrown it away, that to me always sticks to me on why we do this here and how I'll gauge the other parent is their ability and willingness to facilitate and encourage an ongoing relationship with the other parent.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:47

Okay. Yeah. Um what percentage of clients are men? In my experience, it's 95% men. All a woman needs to say is that she doesn't want to see the father or that she feels unsafe, and bam, you are forced into a contact centre. No, no, yeah, no you're saying changing. Yeah, you're saying more there's more mothers now. Oh we we 50%.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:15

We've probably got more dads down. It it goes up and up and down. It fluctuates. Yeah, dads dads are DV, mums are drugs. That's generally the way the way it goes. Um so yeah, th the the the the the the problems I see and a lot of these is just our mainstream media. Our mainstream media is domestic violence, family violence, children, uh mothers and children, mothers and children, mothers and children. Um yeah, we don't you know that's not what we always see when there's drugs involved. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:51

Someone said expose the solicitors, they are the problem. Do you think um I think solicitors need to be held accountable in the sense that let's just say me and my ex, we want to we break up, we've got kids, and it's somewhat a amicable. We just want to divide the property settlement. And then I'll go see my law firm. Obviously, they want the best for me. She will go see her law firm, and her law firm will say, Oh no, you've got to put put a DV on them because you'll get more of the property pool. And it's like, well, and this this this is actually a story that uh a mother told me she's like, No, I don't, there's no DV involved on. We'll just hear property pool.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:32

Well it's coming, that's the most recent amendments that have just come in. Used to be called a canon claim, a canon adjustment where you had domestic violence.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:38

Is it lift, a property lift or something?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:40

Well now it's now it's it's in the the latest amendments that came in where is there if there is family violence.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:46

You're entitled to more of the property pool, right? Uplift or something. Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, and I think, well, they need to be held accountable because you're you're stuffing with people's lives here and the kids' lives because you want you you want to drag it out and you want to, you know, so um yeah, I think there are some law firms that um need to be held accountable.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:07

Um Yeah, every lawyer's lawyer's different, it's it's it's much the same. It's and I d and I don't think you can really tar probably a oh, they might have the culture in that law firm, but it it it it it comes back a lot of the time the individual lawyer as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:22

Yeah. There's uh I get bombarded about a lawyer. Um I don't need to say a name because she goes by the D V lawyer. I don't know if you've heard about her. Yeah, I'll show up. Um I get bombarded. She so she she calls herself, she obviously has a name, but she calls herself the DV lawyer and she only represents women, and apparently she's renowned for um coaching, coercing. This is what you do, this is what you say. Yeah. Um I'll just chugging on the Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:54

Oh, it's well well no court positioning, all all the terms that that get used, that's what it what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:00

Yeah. Um I'll just check Instagram as that was Facebook, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:06

Yeah, it's uh it's um the games the games that get played um is uh is quite horrible at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:17

Does a supervision agency have to declose truthfully in a supervised report whether it's the residential parent dropping off or picking up the child or a third party such as a residence child's nanny or grandparent? Yeah. I don't even know that that's really about that one. I don't even understand that question, does it? Yeah, yeah, no, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:37

Yeah, it makes sense. What's it mean? Sorry, what's it Okay, so so who who's gonna drop the child off there? So I say to the party that's that's there to be supervised or spending time with the child, at the end of the day, mate, I don't really give a shit who's dropping that child off. So long as that child arrives here. Yeah, okay. So And and it's and it's pretty standard antagonistic behaviour. Yeah, you send the new boyfriend to drop the to drop the child off. Mate, if that happens, it happens. There's nothing I can do about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:04

I I suppose it'll just be whoever has the parent in in the care that day, right? Like like so for example, like well for me I'd I'd never had care at the time, so like it was always going to be my ex that was gonna drop and I was the one being supervised.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:18

It was he asking who who who's in charge of dropping So like if um so the child's with the mother, then and but the mother doesn't drop the child off, the the new boyfriend would drop the child off. Oh, okay, okay. Or like their grandparents who drop the child off. So yeah, it's yeah, I understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:34

And a lot of and that's and that will a lot of centers there that's you don't know who drops the child off. That child's come. It's different from the children. And that's out of your control, right? Yeah, and it's not for me to get to get involved. If the roles were reversed, I'm not going to tell you who you should drop the child off. If you're unavailable to drop that child off, something's come up, you've had to work, whatever, someone else is going to drop the child off. At the end of the day, I just want to make sure that child's arriving to spend time with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:58

Yeah. I must say, uh, you know, me being through it now, um, you know, not that I'm trying to be gender-biased, but I would feel a lot comfortable going to a contact centre knowing that one, it was being run by the father and the daughter, owned and operated, but also knowing that you'd been through the system to yourself, you know, like I'd feel like I I can relate, he knows what I'm going through. Whereas that other one, like the second one, I was felt getting interrogated, and I was just like, I just felt yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:29

You get it, yeah, and you get a lot of psychologists, I say 99% female but psychologists, okay, they've obviously their hearts in the right place, they're trying to do the right thing, they've watched the rain mainstream media, you know, that's it's it's all uh women and children and and domestic violence. Um okay, good out. That's the parties. Now let's have a bit of empathy for the for the child. Do you understand what the child's going through here? Um and whatever. Mum and mum and dad have had their arguments, something's happened between mum and dad, they're now separated. So mum and dad aren't together. But that child's still always gonna be stuck with mum and dad. Even if we wait until they're right in the stuck with their parents. So let's just try and keep their childhood digging along and so they can have a good childhood.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:16

Um did we miss anything about serious contact centers?

unknown 1:28:21

No, I think we're pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:25

Did you have anything else on your list? No. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:30

I'm glad we mentioned the corrections thing. I'm glad we mentioned that. Yeah, I didn't I didn't realise that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:34

Yeah, it's different different sort of pathways.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:37

Pathways get to us, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:39

And what how would someone normally conclude at a supervision center? Like for me, it was the judge wanted to see the supervision notes, we got the supervision notes, the judge was happy, and um you know that was my time done. Oh, sorry, we I just did the handover there um because you know the conflicting. But what how do how do how does someone normally sort of fade away or end their time at a supervision contact centre? Is it because one, their courts come to an end or they came to an agreement, they got the supervision notes, then the judge was happy.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:10

Um Yeah, generally it's an agreement at a year. Yeah, yeah, that's that's it. Whether whether it's the judge d uh doing unsupervised time or the parties um ag agreeing to the time. Um yeah, look at we'll get and we'll get some dads that just show up every couple of months. I want to get any chance I can see my child for two hours and then he disappears for another six months, and then we'll get a phone call out of the blue again at time.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:41

So um so we'll have those sorts of ones. Um but a lot of times, yeah. It's just an element of time and eventually they reach agreement. The child grows up. Okay, the child's young, that's a young girl, you've got mother mother's bond, tender years, all those principles. Um any young child. The child gets a bit older. Well, give that child a phone. They can have a phone if there's any problems, or they'll call you.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:04

Is there an age limit with the kids at a center?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:07

No, definitely see yeah, all ages. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:10

Yeah, we'll have little three-month-old babies. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:14

So like late teenagers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:17

Um, how did you come about to speaking at the 2026 summit that you just spoke at?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:22

Yeah, honestly, just got yeah, in contact, always sort of had contacts with the um Queensland Family and Child Commission. Yep. And um just saw that they were doing something where the youth could speak up and um say what was wrong and what needs to be better. Yeah. And thought, yeah, definitely, definitely up my alley. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:40

Because you did very well for sp you spoke awesome for t twenty-one. I'm thirty-eight, and sometimes I'm doing a podcast and I still uh uh uh but yeah, you did very well. Is that uh just a natural gift speaking?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:52

Yeah, I I love speaking, public speaking. I always did it through school and everything like that. So um I'm used to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:58

It's interesting that because it definitely is a gift because even in the army, like if you do a prom to get promoted, you have to do a promotion course and you know they they teach you how to address people, how to speak to people. And even the guys I serve today, they they don't want to public speak. You know, they might want to they just not because it just it rattles them, you know. They yeah, so to have that gift, it's very good.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:18

Um and uh there was a few other people there that spoke alongside Yeah, yeah, they were, yeah, other other youth with um different experiences, but sort of the same like situation in a way, you know, it all sort of had different experiences but come to the same conclusion about what needs to be done.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:33

Yeah. Yeah, and it's good because you correct me if I you you you mentioned, you know, kids should be able to speak on behalf of um or you know, like the court should be able to ask correct me if I'm wrong on how I word this, you know, the court should be able to ask the kids or what what their thoughts are or you know, well they do, and they're supposed to. They're supposed to. Yeah, they don't, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:54

And that's uh and that's who Lily A lot of the other kids at the um uh Families and Child Commission uh were from a a state the state system, a child the child um foster system. Yeah, so many, so many oh sad stories. Just it it shows how resilient some of these children are that have been placed in care when they are two years old. They've lived in 20 different homes, they've been homeless four times. You know, there's a you know, when the first time I was homeless, I was twelve years old. Um amazing stories of these kids, and you see these wonderful kids up there who are 15, 16, 17, and you just go, mate, how resilient are you? How how how are you not dead? Um but these kids are just absolutely wonderful. So I say to the the parents going through the family law system kids are resilient. Um kids kids will get through the system. Um they all grow up.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:58

And um Yeah, and they'll you know, and they all come back.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:02

Every every child in their early twenties asks questions about their childhood.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:07

Um so Lily's speech was about the only one on the family court. Most most of the others were were on child safety and children in care. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:16

And um, if you don't mind me asking, do you do you still speak to Lily's mums on on good terms at all or anything or the these days? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 100%, yeah. All good.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:25

When when when needed. She's been travelling around Australia. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:29

But I mean, yeah, it's I mean, both go to like my son's birthday party and everything like that. Like it's yeah, it's fine, yeah. And it's really good. It's a great example of what um should be. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:41

Lily's mum actually went back to Bond and she did a lot of things. Oh, did she as well. Oh, so she's a lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:45

She's a lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:46

What type of lawyer?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:47

Yeah, are she just a state uh lawyer?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:50

Yeah. I couldn't imagine uh being a lawyer must age you real quick.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:56

It depends where you go into like Lily's mum and mother, everyone who's been through it does law and has these great ambitions of changing the Family Law Act, and then you go in there and see it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:06

I couldn't imagine though being a criminal lawyer family because your phone would be going off all the time. You know, right? Like you know, on on if if we have a weekend, that's it. Like I you you guys will work on your weekends I soon, but on the weekends, weekend, but like if you're a lawyer, like you know There's no nine to five. That's right, you know, your phone would be going off. Oh, you didn't come to handover and I I just don't I I don't know if I could do a job where that phone was going off all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:28

Until I get the bill and she's also agreement with those phone calls. I'm like, okay, that phone call cost me sixty-five bucks. That's right, true. True, true.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:38

So what's uh the rest of the year look look for you guys? Any future plans?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:44

We same old same old, same old. My my prime primary business we're mining contractors primarily in in North Queensland and New Guinea.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:52

So that that keeps keeps the money, money coming from us. So we'll keep whereabouts in New Guinea did you work? Uh so yeah, so I was at oh croaky, Missy my mine, then I was at Poggra up in the Highlands for a while. Then I went to Lahia, so I spent a couple of years on Lahia. Uh and then then back now. Still got a a business up up there.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:13

I I went to Port Port Mozie for a while. Um yeah, I used to move gold around. A client used to export gold, and yeah, just yeah, do close protection. I I love P and G was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:22

Yeah, oh, it's interesting. Because I said people have been used to have PNG stories and it's an addiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:28

Once you've been up there, it's yeah, it's an amazing place. Yeah, it is. Have you ever been there? Yeah, we actually did the Kokoda track. Oh, you know I worked there and I still haven't done it, but it's it's on the cards.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:38

I took a bunch of when she was 15. And that because 'cause I had the business up there and at that and still to this day, you can't get Kina in Dollsy dollars. So I had quite a bit of money up there sitting in a PNG bank account and I couldn't do anything about it. So I thought, what do I do? And so I rang up Charlie Lynn that runs Kakoda Trek's up there. Charlie, can I can I pay you in Kina to do a trek for me and my daughter? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No worries.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:02

You can buy me a Ute up here. I buy him a Ute. And so we did Kakoda and she was literally.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:09

Well you did at 15. Yeah. Oh wow. How many how many days did it take? Seven days. Ten days. We did a 10-day trip.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:15

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I say to any a and especially any any veterans. Yeah. Make undo it. Yeah. It's just uh amazing when you uh whether you go from um uh the sort of at Palm and then across to Kokoda or all the way all the way back, uh it's it's it's amazing. You're going higher than Mount Mount Kosyosko. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:39

Um and you have set checkpoints, you stay at it, like you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:43

All the treks have their own tents, their own, their own porters and carriers and everything. You're you're looked after very well. It's all it's set up very, very well. So uh so all of them do do it. Like Lily, yeah, she did amazing. There was a couple of a couple of girls on the trick with us.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:59

Yeah, definitely. No, it was it was the best thing. Like looking back now, I'm so glad we did it. Yeah like it was hard, but I mean it gives you yeah, perspective. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:07

Yeah, nice. Everyone always says to me, you know, so did you train or what did what did you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:13

I should have.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:16

We went to one one training and I think, you know, we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:24

Um well I've got some concluding questions here. Um I'll ask both of you. Uh um, Lily, the I do have um, you know, female lawyers on and female guests on. The questions are tailored towards the father, but regardless, I'll just ask the same question and try and uh answer as best as you can. Um so the first one is any advice for fathers knowing what you know now, would you have changed anything during the court process? So that'd be a hard one for you to answer. For me, I say, you know, if I could turn back time one, I'd probably self-represent. Wouldn't know how, and I'm sure the workload would be ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:04

Um the system is so broken uh I I I don't I don't know where to where to start. Um people need uh good advice before they start. They can't just jump straight in and self-represent. Although these days you can. 102NA is is not means tested once you get trial directions. So you so you can self-represent all the way through until you get trial directions and then you can apply for 102NA and get a lawyer and embarrassed under 102 NA. Um so that's that's through legal aid. Yep. Um But you still you still need um advice before you start. Um and I don't want to I don't want to be gendered, I don't I don't want to be either way, but yes, the women do get a lot of free advice. They can go to all the women's legal services and all a lot of free advice for women. Men don't. So it's it's um really unfortunate there. All I say to a lot of blokes is just keep you cool. Yeah. Keep you cool, look after number one. I I was gonna say here I have in my notes where I I put put myself in hospital one time when when I had the suicides and everything, I was going through a bit of a rough patch, and so I actually rang up and and put myself in hospital down at at um at the Gold Coast. And I remember lying there in the in the bed and they put me in this in the hallway where everyone's walking up and down, and all these doctors are walking up and down right at the the entrance of emergency, and you've got all the homeless people sleeping in the chairs over there, and the main hallway goes down. And I remember it was about two o'clock in the morning, and I woke up and this young doctor walks walks past me, hey girl mate, and I'm in in this bed in the hallway, people walk. I say, Yeah, no, alright, mate, I can go home, I'm I'm fine. He says, mate, do you know why you're here? And I said, No, I'm I'm fine, mate. I just want to go home. I just had a bit of a rough, rough patch. And he says, No, no, no, no, do you know why you're here? And not down in one of those rooms down there. Because everyone that walks past you tonight is looking at you, watching you, and checking you out because we don't see it coming. You're the standard 35, 40 to 50 year old successful businessman, tradee, we don't see it coming until it's too late. So we're checking you out to make sure that we're gonna send you home and you're gonna be fine. And you're not gonna do anything silly. And that's when it just it just clicked in my head and went y you're you're dead right, mate. You're dead right. Because blokes don't. They just disappear and you never see them again. And and that night just changed my whole perspective on you know, just just help helping helping blokes through rough times. Helping parents go through rough times, you know, mums and dads. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:59

You reckon that was kind of like a I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:01

Light bulb moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:02

Yeah, right in the universe. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:04

Yeah, I don't don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:06

You know, didn't want to put it in the position, but um that's probably a bit hard one for you to answer. How do we change the system?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:19

Give children more of a voice. Yeah, I like that one. Yeah, 100%. Like the ICL isn't meant to, you know, be the voice of the children, but at the end of the day, it's what the ICL thinks, it's not what the children have told them. So I think we need to put more of the onus on the ICL showing how they're representing the child um, other than like rather than just going off what they're telling you.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:40

Um if we if if they did go off speaking to children, what what age do you reckon that they would uh put started at, if that makes sense? You know, like if the children was six above, eight above, we can ask them their thoughts. Do you reckon they would put an age?

SPEAKER_04 1:41:54

Well then get the ICL to engage a a a child psychologist or someone with those experiences to sit down and and speak to the child. The problem exactly with my trial was just gone straight up. We got the right to the last day of trial. The judge has said straight to the ICL, have you spoken to these kids? And the IC went, yes. Good. Tick bang. Right, that's done. Okay, we can keep moving on with the trial. None of it was asked what the children want, even though they had the family report which told them what the children wanted. Um the processes aren't. The the processes are there, but they're not being followed in the court. The court system is is just totally broken. It should be open. People should be allowed to sit up. The family court is an open court. You can go and sit at the back of the family court, but they won't let you. No, that's right. They'll beat you out straight up. So more people need to go and sit up the back of the family court and watch what goes on. There needs to be more journalists, as I said. Sit up the back and just watch and listen, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:42:50

My brother said the only way to change it in his opinion, in his opinion, was let journalists get in there and report what's going on. Absolutely. Let journeys sit at the back. Let them ru r write and report, tell the public what's going on inside those four walls. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:04

Remove remove 121, straight up, get rid of it. And um and let let people tell what's going in the family court.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:13

Yeah. Everyone knows and everyone sees all other all other courts, oh, we've got all these problems, we've got all this youth justice problems and all these sorts of things. Everyone mentions all the youth just no one mentions the family court. No one mentions. Why haven't these kids? Why why aren't they spending time with their father or their mother? How did these kids get on the street? You know, how did they end up there? My my boys, perfect examption exemption. My judge, you put put me in the witness box and spent an hour reading me the contempt legislation because I don't have any respect for the court. Well, what I can guarantee you, my kids aren't gonna have any respect for the court either. Um, reading me the contempt legislation isn't gonna instill respect for the court in me.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:58

Yeah. Um here's a funny question. So for the purpose of the scenario, you're on death row in prison, and the guard comes and asks you what you want for your final meal, drink, and dessert. So your last supper. What do you what do you choose before you pass away?

SPEAKER_04 1:44:14

Oh made out that butter chicken last?

SPEAKER_02 1:44:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about it? What it what it what do you wash it down with?

SPEAKER_03 1:44:30

Oh yeah, yeah, I yeah, I actually had it sh shivers, yeah. Help me take it down. Sweet tooth. Dessert?

SPEAKER_04 1:44:40

Um not really a big dessert. Really? It'd come back to like a like a mud cake or a chocolate chocolate cake.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:47

Yeah, I was gonna say like a chocolate ice cream. But what about you, food-wise? What's your literally gonna say butter chicken, yeah. What about drinking like saffron rice, just like a sprat?

SPEAKER_02 1:44:56

Yeah, I'm a Coco Collar. Pepsi Max, but on tap. I love post mix of chocolate. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, yeah, it tastes different. It does. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um here's a deep one. If you're in a room with every single person you'd met or interacted with on this journey, who was the first person you'd be drawn to and why? Hmm. That was my guess from episode two, Ben Carrag. He wanted that question in.

unknown 1:45:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:36

She I never we never officially met, um, but she flew over from England and when we're the day of trial that got adjourned. And um she just gave me this look. There was no anger, there was no hate. It's like she was saying sorry to me. Through energy, through feelings, and I just, you know, I just want to I don't know what I'd ask, but I just want to talk to her. That's who I'd be drawn to.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:03

My last judge.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:06

Yeah, that'd have a lot to say to my judge, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:10

My last judge. I'd love to sit down and just have a have a coffee with my last judge.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:16

What about your journey?

SPEAKER_00 1:46:18

Yeah, I don't know, like the the I mean it could be any journey. Yeah, um, well, I'll bring it back to Lillipilly. I think just I'd love to speak to the children that have come to Lillipilly and see where they're at now and see their like thoughts um of the system and and what can be changed again, bringing it back to I think listening to children and their views and their lived experience, and that will show how we need to change the system for the future.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:43

Yeah, I like that. Yeah. I like that. Fantastic. Um, what strategies or tips helped during the process that you could recommend to any listeners?

SPEAKER_04 1:46:52

Do as I say, not as I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:58

Yeah, my my one was, you know, just try and keep busy, doing good things. You know, don't go drinking again, like go to the gym. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:05

The har the harder I work, the luckier I seem to become.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:08

Oh really?

SPEAKER_04 1:47:08

You know, well, that's yeah, it's standard, yeah. Standard thing. Absolutely. Keep yourself busy, keep yourself in the gym. Yeah, you gotta keep the mind. Yep, keep the mind busy, keep physic physically active, keep keep working, you know, keep keep a bit of money coming in. Yeah. Um, you know, one day those kids are gonna grow up, be someone that they're proud of.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:26

100% that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:28

That's what I say, you know. I I I truly feel I'll be reunited with my daughter one day, but yeah, when she does come back, is she do I want to see the guys down in the dumps and drinking and uh being or someone that never forgot about her but had to get on with life and but trying to be the best version I can be. So when she comes back, she's like, Well, that's my day. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:47

Maybe a pretty pretty cool trip overseas. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:50

I know I've I've tried to make obviously once she moved back, she blocked all guy contact. But I have recently sent a message um to her brother, my ex's brother and sister online. Uh I'm sure they've read it. You know, when you get a message, you can read it but not accept. Um I I wanted to send it to her mum, um, my daughter's grandmother, but uh I couldn't find her online or don't have an email. So be patient. It'll happen. Yeah. Last one. Any message for your children?

SPEAKER_04 1:48:22

Love you, always will. Yeah. And I'm not going anywhere. Beautiful. I'll always be here for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:28

Yeah, 100%. Like unconditional love and um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:32

Beautiful. Yeah. Guys, before I wrap up, did we miss anything?

SPEAKER_06 1:48:39

I don't think so. No, I think we did. Yeah, I think we did great. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:43

Yeah, no, really well done. No, I think it's gonna, you know, to see first time a father and a daughter come home. Also, you've been through the system, but you've also now uh created your own. No, thanks for giving us the the the silly profile. I've I've been picky on who I've got to come on, so I'm glad you reached out. And um, you know, I think it's a powerful message in itself having a father and daughter.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:07

I should have mentioned Joe. So I've got this dad that comes up that is on Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:11

He says, You're going on the Broken Fathers podcast?

SPEAKER_05 1:49:14

I'm like, where'd you see that? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I saw it on the website. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:18

This father that that's been coming up on on Sunday, yeah, sent a text message to his other side. And uh unfortunately he spent three months inside. And uh so his first breach. So his first yeah, breach. So his first first first cellmate he gets in into into jail and his first cellmate. So what do you do? Oh yeah, yeah, double murderer, killed two people. The double murderer turns around to your mom. So what are you in here for? Send a text matter.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:43

You know what? That blows my mind. I've said it on so many episodes before. You know, um the mum will put a divvy on him so she's scared for her life, but she will still text him, which I think is is entrapment. Yeah. Because once that DV's on, if you breach it, that's when you're gone. So hey, what are you up to this weekend? Oh, not much. Breach.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:01

Mind games, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:02

And I'm just thinking, imagine being in prison. And I know this off because my dad's a correction officer. You know, I've worked with a lot of ex-cops on jobs, and they say, Yeah, there's people in prison sitting there for sending a text message. And I was just like, and w when when you first think that I think, do you did you text the Prime Minister that you're going to blow up his house or something? Like is this a serious text? No, I just replied, yeah, I'm free. I just think uh actually, before I forget, here's one for you. I have a father, he's in Supervision Contact Centre now, uh, in a different state. He got his uh notes subpoenaed and handed to the court, and the supervisor wrote that the father uh wears his broken father's podcast t-shirt and it's passive aggressive. And he and she wrote that on the on the on his notes. And I was just like, man, really?

SPEAKER_05 1:50:55

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:57

So when I'm you know, when I when I go and I wear my father's for justice, you know, I'm a dad, not a criminal shirt. Maybe not, because you're you're you're still there being watched by a third party.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:12

I had a here's another I had a father go to mediation, had his broken father's podcast t-shirt on.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:18

Here's But there's nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:20

I uh yeah, but on your t-shirt there's it just says the untold truth about fathers and family calls. Yeah. But the media so she's ex said told the mediator um I don't want him wearing his broken father's podcast t-shirt here. But the media they said you can't tell him what he can and can't wear. Exactly. Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:38

Yeah, so but yeah, interesting stack, so um but yeah, those little little things that you never know what's gonna come back. Yeah, yeah. And you're gonna get a complaint. But no, good on the mediator to say to stand up and go, well, I can't really tell him what he can and can't wear.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:55

Yeah, yeah. Well, Darren and Lily, on behalf of the Broken Fires podcast, I'd like to thank you for taking time on you today. Both coming here, sharing your story, giving us some insights, all the viewers of how the Supervision Contact Centre works. I'm sure I have no doubt that some fires will take some good uh n knowledge from here and uh it will help better the path moving forward. Um and yeah, I'm wishing you both nothing but the best moving forward for the rest of the year.

unknown 1:52:22

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:22

Thanks for Jack.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:24

Thank you for being here. Thank you so much, appreciate it. Yeah.