Episode 33 - Benson Tan & Collette Farron - When Protection Orders Become "Family Court Weapons"

Episode 33

Guest - Benson Tan & Collette Farron

For years, Benson stayed silent.

Not because he had nothing to say, but because he was silenced.

Now, after years of court battles, separation from his daughters, false allegations, legal proceedings, and a relentless fight to remain part of their lives, he is sharing his story publicly for the very first time.

From being best friends since the mid-90s, to creating two beautiful daughters together through IVF, life took a path no one could have imagined.

What started as an amicable co-parenting relationship after his wife had multiple affairs eventually turned into a nightmare. Following an incident where his ex-wife assaulted his partner, a DVO was put in place on him, communication was cut off, and a father was suddenly unable to see or speak to his children.

After years of fighting, consent orders were finally reached, offering hope that a meaningful relationship with his daughters could be rebuilt. But the battle didn’t end there. Constant allegations, ongoing court appearances, and repeated attempts to stop contact took their toll.

After years of emotional, financial, and legal exhaustion, he reached a point where he simply couldn’t keep fighting.

This is the story of a father who never wanted to walk away but was worn down by a system and a process that seemed determined to keep him away.

When the legal battles ended, the emotional impact remained.

This episode isn’t just about one father. It’s about the cost of family breakdown, the challenges of navigating complex legal systems, and the resilience it takes to keep showing up when every door seems closed.

After years of staying silent, he’s ready to share his experience.

This is his story.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Fathers podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal advised. If you're going through the family law court process, particularly as a father, then this podcast may be relevant to what you may experience. Some things we discussed in these episodes may be triggering, and if you suffer from any form of mental health-related conditions, or subject to domestic or family violence and need any assistance, then please call 1-800-Respect and Walter. The views and experiences discussed by people on our show are not necessarily the views and opinions of Broken Fathers Podcasts or their guest speakers. We strongly advise you to seek your own independent legal and professional advice as the Broken Fathers Podcast will not be liable, answerable, or accountable for any loss of damage or litigation resulting from discussions on our platform. Right, this podcast is now in session. So whilst we wait, I'd like to take this moment to acknowledge our platinum sponsor, Straight Up Construction. At Straight Up Construction, they take pride in delivering high and work across every trade. From new builds to renovations, no job is too big or too small. Director Luke Miller and his dedicated team tackle every project with integrity, hard work, honesty, and a commitment to delivering superior quality results every time. Straight Up Construction is built on the belief that strong foundations matter just as much in the bones of a home as they do in the heart of one. Families should stand strong and every loving parent should maintain their right to be a part of their children's lives. Straight-up Construction believes that in Truzzi Spirit, everyone deserves a fair go. That's why we're proud to have Straight Up Construction as our platinum sponsor. With their support, we continue to produce the Broken Fathers podcast and try to light on the struggles of men who have been let down by the system. Good morning, listeners and viewers, and welcome back to the Broken Fathers Podcast, Australia's first and only podcast dedicated to addressing family core issues from the perspective of fathers. I'm your host, Percy. Before I introduce my next guest, just a reminder the link for my podcast merchandise is in our bio on Insta, Facebook, TikTok, or just go straight to fkvx.au. Now, on today's story is one that hits hard. It's about a father who didn't walk away, he was pushed out. A story of false allegations, a system that didn't listen, and years spent fighting just to be part of his children's lives. From being cut off completely to civilised visits to watching his daughters slowly slip away through a system that was meant to protect them. Even when the charges were dropped, even when he was found not guilty, the damage was already done. This isn't just about one man, it's about what happens when silence, fear, and broken processes collide. After years of staying quiet to protect his children, he's finally ready to speak. This is his truth. Joining with me today is Benson and his partner, Colette. Welcome, guys.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Thank you, Jared. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Thanks for coming down. I appreciate you taking time out of your day and your schedule and driving down. I appreciate it. Um before we jump into the circus that's known as Family Court, I like to know about my guests. So I'll start with you, Benson, mate. What was life like for you growing up?

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Um life's life was great. Uh Jared, um, so originally from Borneo, Malaysia. Yeah. Grew up there, and then I came here in 1990 uh because my dad got transfer. He was working in the airlines and um yeah, um been in Brisbane my entire you know, half of my life.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

How old were you when you came over?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Uh about 15. Yeah, how old are you now? I'm oh my god, 50. 50. Oh, you're 50?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

You don't look 50, man. Yeah. Age of like a fine wine. Thank you. I was gonna say maybe 40. I'm 38, yeah. That's that's what I tell people now.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah, so um uh yeah, man. Um obviously went to school here and um Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

We spoke off when we went to before you went to um Toomba Grammy. Uh sorry, before you went up to Toomba to D Darling Downs?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, so so I went to um I went to Intropilly. Uh Intro, that's it, yeah, yeah. Um for uh eight, nine, and and ten. And then went over to uh Dowlands College. Yeah, nice. Uh 11, 12.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Yeah. And then you finished school? What what what what happened then?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Uh finished school. Um did my diploma of hospitality, uh hotel management. Yeah. Uh worked in a couple of hotels and yeah, it just wasn't really my thing, man. Because I've you know, like I I come from a musical family. Yeah. I love I love, you know, singing and and entertaining. And um, so while I was doing that, like even while I was still in school, I was actually, you know, like performing around Brisbane and stuff like that, like dancing. Yeah. Um yeah, man. Uh yeah, so that hot that whole hotel hospitality thing wasn't wasn't my thing, and and um started um dancing for like a few years, you know, just doing backups and stuff for that. Yeah, and then um that kind of you know ward off, like it wasn't really popular anymore. So I thought I gotta do something else. So that's when that's when I started singing. Yeah, nice. And uh yeah, just been doing that since like you know been singing around you know Brisbane and Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

And Koi was it was uh were you at Koi singing?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

I uh the funny thing is I actually started I I I I sang there when it first opened. Oh really? And then and after that the uh cut friends of mine took over.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

When when when did they first open Koi?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Oh my god. Um good question, bro. Good food there. Yeah, yeah, it's nice, yeah. You go there, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

I I haven't been for a while, but yeah, every time I go there, the food's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um all right, and then uh so what you we're we're in your 20s now somewhere, what late 20s? I'm just trying to try and do timeline.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Um yeah, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

And then 20s, yeah. So how many kids do you have? Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Right now I've got four.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Four kids, yep. Or to your your ex? No.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

So no, so uh one to my XX. Yep, two to my next ex.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yep. And then uh one to your one to your previous year, last one. Lovely girl right here. Oh sorry. Um all right, well, how did you meet your the the your first um ex?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

The first one, so um actually okay, so uh I met my um daughter's mom. So the the the my two girls uh so my uh so you first charge a daughter? No, sorry. My first one is is is my son. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Um second one is an ex-wife before he had his son.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You get that?

SPEAKER_04 6:57

You just start your story from the beginning from the mid 90s.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Okay, so alright. Alright, so uh so back in the 90s, um, so I met um uh my my ex-wife. Um met my ex-wife in the back in the 90s. Yeah. Um so we we used to date. Yeah. We you know, uh like we we knew people, you know, like obviously friends who were friends with um people that we knew and stuff like that. And uh so we dated uh for a bit and then she uh she had to move back to Adelaide. So she moved to Adelaide and then I um and then that's when you know I met this is just gonna be Yeah, yeah, it's fine, bro. Yeah, just uh the mother of my son. Yeah. And then you know, we got together and then and then we had my son. Um and that that was cool, man. Like we hook, you know, she's a beautiful person, you know, we got along really well. Um obviously, you know relationship-wise, like like you know, uh it wasn't, you know, like I think we were just better off being friends, you know. Yeah, so like we had a good relationship even till now. And uh so the entire time we, you know, co-parented, you know, my son. That's good. Yeah, like no no issues, like you know, yeah, like no problem at all. Um and then um I reconnected with my um ex-wife, yeah, my ex-wife, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

So be before we move on that, so how long were you together before before you guys set separated? Sorry. With who?

SPEAKER_04 8:41

With your son's mum. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

So obviously you you everything you know you you guys co-parented, but at what point um do you sort of go go your own ways after he was born?

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Man, we it's funny because uh we like we were kind of on and off and you know, like I I guess we were young and you know, like how old were you at the time? I I was in my 20s. Yeah. My twenties. Yeah, like mid-20s, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So um, you know, like we're young and you know, she's got her own thing, got her own thing, you know. You know, we just got a beautiful son together that, you know, and and got along really well. Go over to Malaysia quite a bit, you know. Um and the funny thing is, like, even when we separated, you know, she she was still going over there like with her with her like partner after me. Yeah, and and you know, go visit my family's. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

So Okay, sorry, yep, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah, yeah. So where am I up to now? Uh so you reconnected? Okay, so I reconnected to uh my ex-wife. Yep. We um so she obviously moved back here and then um You didn't actually know she moved back here.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

They bumped into each other.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Okay. Yeah, so um and then we got together again. Yep. So um dated you know that obviously again I think we're still kids back, you know, dated for like a year or so. And then went our separate ways again. Sorry, I think the first story with the first one, I think she I think it's the second time when she had to move back to Adelaide.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Sorry, bro.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

No, you're up, but you talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Yeah. So she had to move back to LA, so the second time when we re reconnected, she um um moved back. And then and then the third time, that's when she came back. Yeah and I bumped into her in in uh one of the shopping centers here, and um Yeah, it was like, oh shit, you know, three times in a row, like so I mean we we had a good friendship, you know, like you know, obviously you know, like I don't know, like but the funny thing is like the third time, you know, there was like the I think the first two times when when we've dated, I think like I said, we were young, I think we were just kids, you know, like still growing. Still growing. But the third time when we reconnected, like it I think um that's when I saw like you know, like red flags and stuff like that, you know. Okay. But obviously you kind of just ignore that and because you know you kind of go, Oh yeah, I've known you for a long time, and and then yeah, we dated again. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Dated again, and then um but yeah, man, I saw like heaps of like I like I should have known, you know, like just just really jealous and yeah, well some of the red flags if you're happy to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um so big because I'm in the entertainment industry, you know, like I perform and stuff like that. She just gets really jealous. Um controlling with a little bit controlling, yeah. So like you know, like after you finish singing, like you know, you get people coming up and you know, kind of crazy and stuff like that, you know, like women and like guys and girls, but like she'll come up and like she'll dig her nails into me, like when girls come up and and like you know, oh hey, I I enjoyed, you know, like your performance, and then she'll like just negative five man. Yeah, you can feel it, you know, even I feel uncomfortable, you know, like you know, and she'll be like staring at the girls, and it's like, oh come on, relax, like yeah, um that and also um like the main one is like she was really jealous with because I had a son to my um my ex af like after her. Yeah, yeah, you know. Um so that was that was a real bad one. Like because I used to have to pick my son up like when I get him, and she she wouldn't let me pick him up. She wants to go pick him up because she was she wouldn't trust me to go. See you see the ex. Yeah. Um talk about your wedding. Oh yes. So that was a big issue. Like, so we we decided to get married. Yep. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Well where about you get married? Brisbane. Brisbane.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Oh yeah. Yeah, golf club. Oh yeah. I think you know, like, when I think back now, I think it's just you know, like you you you think, oh shit, you know, you're getting old, like you're growing up now, and you you think you know this person because we've we've been together for you know since like you've known them since the 90s, and you know, you think uh maybe this can work out, you know, like but fuck, bro.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Oh no, you can swear, yeah, I'll swear all the time.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Oh fuck, it's you know, like I should have known, you know. So the wedding near nearly didn't go uh you're just I'm just strictly. So the wedding it nearly didn't go ahead because um she didn't want my son's mum to be there because my son was the ring boy, and he had such a good relationship, he invited the ex to his wedding. So because we we got a good relationship, it's good, a good parent. Yeah, so uh in the end she kind of agreed, like you know, she can come, but she has to sit like all the way down the back. You know, one of those bro. It's like oh man, come on, grow up anyway. Again, you know, you kind of just you're in that that um love bubble type site.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah, um, so on the wedding day, fuck, we had uh family photos mom jumped in, uh my son's mom, yeah, and she made a big scene, bro. Oh no, made a big scene. Get the fuck out of there. Family photo, you're not you're not part of family. Man, in front of my mom, in front of like my son, just in front of everyone, yeah. I'm like, hell yeah, it was embarrassing, man.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Bro I feel embarrassed just hearing the story, like just I couldn't imagine. Yeah. Some people just can't put stuff aside and recognize like it's just this is such a big this is some big day, don't make a scene, just leave it for another time.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Um how did uh did that set the tone for the rest of the day, for the rest of the wedding day?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

It was crap. Um kind of just went back to the hotel and just went to sleep. Um yeah, so you know, that's one incident, like you know, and what else? That's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Um you guys uh uh but you got you end up having a child with her?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yeah, so uh so we're we you know, obviously you know you push in They were getting older and she wanted children they were trying and then she couldn't have a child, so they went through IVF twice.

unknown 15:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Twice IVF. What uh if you don't mind, IVF heard it costs a lot. It was like 10 grand a pop or something.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Um I think we were quite lucky. We didn't, I think it wasn't quite that big.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Is that the price today? I thought I heard something. I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

But for two, like, yeah, it's it's it's it's nearly up there. Yeah. Um yeah, IVF, got two two beautiful daughters together, you know, like um what's the uh age gap between them? Uh two years. Two years, yep, yep. Yeah. Um so you know, when when we had when we had my like our daughters, like things were kind of alright, you know, like it wasn't, you know, like I felt like it wasn't, you know, the the jealousy kind of thing it wasn't as strong as before.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

You know, so um they started their barber shop during that time as well. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Do you think because you she had a kid with you kind of sort of gave her that bit of I don't know? I I think so. I think so. I think so, yeah. Security maybe for yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

And she's probably busy, you know, with with with you know with with other mom girls to be a mom. And yeah, so things things were cool, like um, you know, just normal, normal couple. Yeah, we had a barbershop together too, and um opened up a barber shop. Um Did you cut hair? Yeah, I cut hair. Oh, yeah, true, yeah. Yeah, because I was sick of waiting, you know, like you know, when every time I had to go to the barber shop.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah, two, three hours away sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

And we when we wanted our our own business too, you know, so we can kind of like you know be together. Yeah, yeah. So we opened up a barbershop and um yeah, so that was cool.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Um well, uh so you got you have your first daughter, think things are going all right at home, yeah. You know, then obviously you guys decide to have a second child. Um okay, yep. So one per child, if that makes sense. Yep. Um after you have your second child, your second daughter, um I I assume that at some point severe cracks start showing and the relationship breaks down. Is that right? Hey guys, just a quick shout out to our gold sponsors. MCH Industries are a mining maintenance specialist company supplying solutions to the coal mining industry in the Bowen Basin and regional New South Wales. They supply superintendents, supervisors, leading hands, diesel fitters, tile fitters, auto electricians, HV electricians, and trade assistants to assist. The mining one-stop shop for mechanical trades. MCH Industries are always looking for good blokes to jump on the team, so check out their Instagram for more details. And are you looking to buy, sell, or invest in real estate? There's only one name that's been leading the way for over 123 years, Ray White. Ray White isn't just another real estate brand, it's a family business built on ambition, trust, and leadership. Today, it stands as the largest real estate group in Australasia, connecting people with homes and investments across the country. Whether you're a first-time buyer, a seasoned investor, or looking for that perfect home, Ray White is committed to delivering authentic local expertise. Because real estate isn't just about properties, it's about people, communities, and futures. And when it comes to trusted leadership, meet Alex Illyan, an ex-Army veteran turned dedicated real estate agent. Alex knows what it means to serve, to strategize, and to get the job done. Whether you're looking to buy, sell, or just have questions, Alex is here to guide you every step of the way. Service in the Geelong, Bellarine, and Surf Coast areas. Ray White, the name you can trust in real estate.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

I I busted her um having an uh like multiple um affairs on on on on on the internet.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

So like a dating app?

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Uh it wasn't dating app, it was Instagram actually.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Instagram, so how long have they been going on for, do you know?

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Check this out. Hang on.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Um so um she was having this internet affair with this American g American guy. He he's a barber, um, as far as July 2018.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

And when did you get married? Sorry. 2010. 2010? So you guys were married for quite some time. Quite some time, man. And then when did you what year did you have your second child? 20 uh 2014. 14, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

2016.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Oh, 2016, so and then how how far back does the affair, can you track the affair? Uh that 2018? July 2018. 2018, yeah. Yep. And he was he living here? Was he over? No, he's from America. He's from America. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

So um because I how how I because I I was just really suspicious because she she used to be really, you know, like really cool with her mobile phone, you know, like he started getting a bit protective? Very protective, man. Like, you know, if if a phone rings, boom, you know, like it's it's always on her, you know. I'm like, that's unusual, you know. Like if even if I want to, you know, go on a phone and you know, like it's it's like takes it with her everywhere. Oh yeah, bro. So I I again I didn't really think much of it, you know, and then um but how I found out was uh because because uh her Instagram was linked to mine. Because I never I never really checked, you know and um yeah, I just my mate was um actually telling me, so um maybe maybe you know, just mucking around, maybe she's having an affair like on having a joke. Yeah, having a joke. I'm like, ah nah bro, and I'm like shit. Let me just check. Sure enough, bro. Yeah, man. Um so so ever since then, like 2018, like I've just been I I I have I didn't say anything, like I didn't play dumb. Just play dumb, I just followed. Every time she gets a message, every time she messaged, like I I could see what she was doing, bro. Yeah, so when she's messaging, you could see it on her phone 'cause it's linked to my phone. I can see.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

And she told Benson that she wanted to do this barber expo in America and play to America.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

By herself, I'm assuming. By herself. By herself.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

You know. I even asked her, oh, where are you staying? Oh I'm not sure yet. Probably just some hotel. Blah, blah, blah. But I've got all the screenshots, all the all the evidence is all here, bro. Um we'll send it to me.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

We'll just blackout the names and we'll put you in on the room soon.

unknown 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

I think her passport was expired, or Benson knew the girl at the flight center, and so they sabotaged it. And then Benson was like, I'm gonna go visit my family in Malaysia, like I need a break. And then she was offering to fly him over from America when Benson was in Malaysia.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Oh no, she was happy for me to take my girls. Yeah. Oh, then she was gonna fly the barber from America to Australia.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

So she was trying to tell Benson to take the girls with him. So she could fly the American over.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah, I've got all that too, man. I'll I'll I'll hear you. Um yeah. She's like, Oh, I can't wait. You know, you'll you'll you'll have me for two weeks, you know. Like, I'll show you later, bro. Yeah, yeah, sure. Very juicy.

SPEAKER_04 23:01

Very inappropriate.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Yeah. I'll just write down the terms so I can reference anymore. Um, okay, so do you end up going to Malaysia? Um with the girls.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

I did no no, not with other girls.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Um and then what happens here? Does she does she try and get him over while you're gone or?

SPEAKER_00 23:24

No, no.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

So um so that went on for like, you know, for quite a while actually, because I, you know, because so in in between that, like, I because I knew I knew the relationship was was over, bro. So so I had to like I I planned to define my own place, you know. And I didn't want to stir the kids up, you know, they give them all like my daughters, and so the whole entire time, uh, from then when I found out till I moved out, you know, it was just walking on eggshells at home, you know. Like I was sleeping in in a in my daughter's room, and you know, she'll be going out. Because she she was actually not only she was doing this um on the internet, but she was actually having this little affair thing with one of our clients too.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

You're kidding.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

What clients is in the barber client? You're kidding. Yeah, how did they meet?

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Oh, because we cut his hair. Oh, yeah, of course. I know the guy's here. Oh yeah, you're kidding. So uh piece of shit. Um here.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

They owned a house together as well, and then she wanted to sell it and buy like a renovator, but she would invite her friend to go have a look at houses with her as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

That's right, yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah, and who was the friend?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

That's that guy that one of client, yeah. He's a Tyler. So, but handyman too. The handyman, you know. So there's one time our our tap, the you know, the screw tap. The washer or whatever, yeah. Yeah, it came out. Yep. I'm like, she told me about it. I'm like, oh cool, I'll come and fix it. She's like, no, no, sorry. I'll just call him to come and do it. I'm like, that's an easy job. Like, you know. But so all these little things, man, like I knew it was happening, but I just kind of just kept quiet. And that's why I man, I've been silenced for so long, bro.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

Like, you know, I just he didn't even confront her when he saw the online affair or when he got told about the client. And then finally he just reached breaking point and confronted her.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah. And also, also to to those people, you know, like who came up to me, like when we when we when I when I left the relationship, I got so many people come up to me and and they go, you know, oh, uh, how could you do how could you leave your wife, you know, your your poor daughters, you know, how could you leave your wife for for someone else, for like another woman? I'm like, yeah, you're you're right about the living part, you know, but the other part, you know, you're gonna be able to do that. So she started spinning stories about it. You're getting wrong story, man. Like, and I'm not gonna, you know. I was with you too. Was I with you one time?

SPEAKER_04 26:04

Yeah. One time when these groupies, these old ladies came up and they're like, How could you do that to her?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

You know, I uh I'm not gonna sit down there and try and tell my story, man. I'm like, yeah, whatever, man. Believe what you're so this is what she's been telling people that I left it for someone else, you know? It's like, man, if you only if if only you know the real story, I've got all the evidence here, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Did she ever accuse you of cheating? Uh all the time.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

Because even before the girls.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Even before the girls, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah, I have um a lot of people, well, it's true, not I've had a lot of people tell me, you know, if if they accuse you of cheating, usually it's because they're some sort of yeah, they're guilty. They're trying to cover up their uh probably gonna word this wrong. There's this sort of subconscious guiltiness, so they try and create a smoke screen where they put it back on you type thing. So um so do you sorry, so do you eventually confront her about it?

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Eventually, like once once I once I found a place. And then you um yeah, so um how did that go, Dan? Yeah, so I I I mentioned I had a had a place to to rent and stuff. So I got and thanks to my mom and and and a partner and and a few of my friends, you know, like fucking helped me so much, you know, like found a place. And also the place that I I I rented, the um the owner, she um she actually brings her sons for a haircut at my place, yeah. So she helped me um find a place and yeah, so I found a place and my mom and and and her and a partner and my friends like helped me s set the whole place up. And so this was all like you know, under um under wraps. Yeah, without her knowing. So and then uh yeah, when when when the house was um um ready for me to move in, that's when I confronted her. I said, look, man, I said tell me one more time. You know. Actually, sorry, let me cut off. So before that, she wanted to do um um uh what do you call it? Marriage counseling counseling. She wanted to do that to to do that. I'm like you know, like what for? But anyway, we went anyway. Yeah. I paid for it twice. You know. I was waiting for her to bring that up. Oh yeah, okay. I was gonna bring that up. No, she didn't bring it up, bro. No, I'm just like in my head, I'm thinking, like the first time we went, I'm thinking, you're wasting everyone's time. Like if you're not gonna tell the truth, you know.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Did you bring it up with the marriage counselor? No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

No, okay. The second time, because this was before I found a place. I want to keep every year quiet. When the second time again, same shit, bro. What a waste of time, you know. Um but anyway, back to when I approach her, like I said, look man, I said, tell me what are you doing? Like, what's going on? You know, like are you? She's like, no, no, no, no, no. I said, I pull up my phone, bro. I said, Man, this is not matching up with your story. I've got all the screenshots and you know, all the juicy, dirty stuff that you're you know. She just fucking went berserk, crying.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Did she try to defend herself?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Not really. She was like, just screaming, like chucking shit at me and and across the room, and and then and then the last thing she said to me was, Oh, if you don't see your daughters enemy, uh, it's your fault, you know, whatever that means.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Yeah, you know, like just trying to You see this on on on Instagram, people send me reels and you know they confront their the partner and the cheater and they'll just it's like uh someone explained to me. I probably were wrong, but they um you know they the behavioral pattern they'll they start throwing stuff and because they don't have an excuse or reason and then instead of taking accountability, accountability, and then normally they say stuff not saying that that's what you expect, but I'm gonna I'll kill myself, or they you know they try and stop you from leaving and yeah. So yeah, so she's throwing a tantrum, yeah, throwing stuff around.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

I just I just I just walked walked out of the house and and just and just drove and you know she was just screaming like it was so loud, like it was I I think the whole neighbors could hear. I just drove and then uh yeah, went back to my place and that was it. It was nice, you know, going to my place.

SPEAKER_04 30:14

And even before Benson had his place, he would go and stay with his friends and then go home at five in the morning. So when the girls woke up, they're still there and they didn't know.

unknown 30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

A lot of my friends, they're like, Man, how do you how do you keep it so cool? Like, you know, how do you stay silent? Yeah, much respect because yeah, I don't know if I could have uh see the thing is I'm one of those people that what's this?

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Yeah, I would have to do it. I'll confront you straight away.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

I think because because we've dated so many times. So like like you know, like the I mean the pain wasn't as bad, if you know what I mean. Like, because it's like we've like I've known her for a while now, and you know, like that's kind of you know, and and you know, I've I've had relationships with my sons, but I mean, and that didn't work out, you know. So it's like, you know, so that's why I was uh I I think that's why I was able to like stay cool and just you know like think of the girls, just think of myself and think, you know, like make sure everything's you know, everyone's all good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

No, much respect to you for being so composed. I mean I turn my phone on airplane mode at night so I can mentally sleep, switch off because the phone always just but like I'm a passionate Rooster supporter, right? So a couple of yeah a while ago Reese's beat South and I couldn't I was watching my phone was off, but I couldn't. I can't wait for the next day, you know, because passionate Roos I turn my phone on airplane mode and I'd post like the winning photo, like give it to the you know, like there's no way I could have done what you did and just held myself because I'm one of those person, like, what's this?

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah, so um man, honestly, hey, there's times in the house, right? There's there's times in the house where we're sitting in a lounge, you know, watching TV. She's there with one of my daughters, I'm here, and then my phone would go and I knew it. I knew what it was, you know, and it'd be looking, and she'll be there going. I'm like, I know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Wow, well played though, well played.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

I know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Well played. Um, and then so what happens here? You move in, you you've got so you've got your own place now, you've walked away.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Walked away, and then obviously, you know, just you know, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Did she try to throw the DV card at you or something? No, not yet, not yet.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yeah, this that's where it it gets crazy and funny. So moved in, and obviously, you know, they they tried to play the the whole hero thing, you know. I own the kids now, you can't see the girls, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Using the kids as porn, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yep. So I reached out to uh Relationship Australia um and made an appointment and stuff, just so we can have like some sort of writing in the writing, you know, like when I can have the girls and stuff like that. And I did that uh in April 2019, and then we finally obviously finally got um you know like when I can have the girls and stuff like that, like I think Monday and Wednesday. Yeah, Monday and Wednesday, like twice a week.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

So that was overnight too.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Yeah, yeah. Overnight. Uh some s some of the nights were like hectic because um she used to call them just before bedtime. So the mum used to call the girls, you know, because she wants to say goodnight to them. But instead of saying goodnight, she'll go, Oh, guess what mum's doing? I'm making blueberries. Blueberry muffins. Blueberry muffins. So the girl's like, Oh, I wanna I wanna go, I wanna go to mom's. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

They still went on family holidays as well during that time.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah, what together? Okay, so check this out. So after all this, right? We so okay, just let me go back a little bit. So we did the relationship Australia, and we did we did that together.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Did that twice, and then there was meant to be a third one. We actually cancelled it together. We're like, you know, we're we're cool. Like, this is how we should be, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Like so you're still trying to make it work somewhat, like trying to fix the cracks, or no, no, no, just co-parent. Just co-parent. Okay, so you're going to relationships to to co-parent. Got yeah. But you're still seeing the Tyler and Yeah, uh, except then that was official now. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's right, yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

I mean, honestly, there's so much. Yeah, but trust me.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

You'll go hands and I'll be like, I forgot this, I forget that. It's uh and there's there's times where where Colette will go, Oh, but remember that time you told me, I'm like, oh shit, I totally forgot about that.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

She would still bring the girls to his geek and book a table under singer's wife.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Oh yeah. So this is after we separated, yeah. And I again, like I said, I've got all the evidence, I got videos of my girls coming to my geeks singing with me, like holidays. So um took my daughters to Disney on Ice July 2019. You know, we're not together then. Took them top golf, like a different day. Um we went on a little holiday at the Oaks Hotel, Golden Beach. Yeah, that's in November 18th, 2019. It's like a combined birthday gifts. Um 16th of December. I took the X and the kids. We stayed at uh uh Paradise Resort. Yeah. Um it's like a combined I saw this is like a combined Christmas gift. Yeah. Spent Christmas together? 2019.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Okay, so And how was co-parent then going at the time? Uh good. It was good. Yeah, good.

unknown 35:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

It was good, no issue. Um the only issue is is the um, you know, sometimes is it uh you know when the taller would like um like when I when I get the goals, you know. Like it didn't happen all the time, but like like most times she you know, she'll just play messing message.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Oh, take them to South Bank at night time and she'll call them up and be like, it's late, they need to be in bed.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Just to little controlling thing. Yeah, yeah. Just a little controlling thing. But other than that, you know, it was cool.

SPEAKER_04 36:06

Um they even booked a family holiday to Malaysia.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

And then COVID hit.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

That's right. Oh, COVID, yeah, I forgot about COVID. 2020, wasn't it? Yeah. Yep, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Yeah, man. That's right. I forgot about that. We booked a ticket that um we're gonna go to Malaysia to visit families in March 2020. Um But then I I I met like a girl in um in January 2020. Met a girl then and um and things were cool, you know, like she knew about her and stuff and um Yeah, and then covert hit. So the the ex did didn't want the girls to go.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

Oh, she they didn't want to go and you know, she's like she was offering to help to change the flights over into his girlfriend's name.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah, she's like, Oh, it's best we if if me and the kids don't go because of COVID. I said, Oh, yeah, it's cool. She's like, Oh, you you know, you should go with your new partner. Oh, okay. Yeah, and she actually helped change the names and stuff like that. Because she yeah, because she I gave her my my credit card so she could book the um the airfare uh airflights and stuff like that. So um yeah. So that was all cool. Um 11th Feb um name change uh for the tickets. 9th of March 2020? 2020, yeah. Okay. 9th of March went to uh me and my partner then um went to Orion Shopping Center. To where? Orion Shopping Center. Orange is that local shop center. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just you know, do a bit of shopping and stuff for that. And we ran into my ex and my daughters, right? So we had to a coffee shop. Yeah, went to coffee shop. Um things are cool. I was playing with the girls. Here we go. Something's happening.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Had she met your new partner at the time, this new partner at the time?

SPEAKER_04 38:12

His partner at that time had reached out to her by a message and was like, Oh, we should meet up.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Without you knowing or with you knowing. Oh, with you, okay, you know, like through Benson's phone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

And she was like, We should meet up. Like, if I'm gonna be in your daughter's lives, I want to meet you, I want you to meet me. And then it didn't happen. And then by chance they bumped into them. So they had to have that meeting.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah. So yeah, we just had coffee and stuff like that, and then they met each other. Things were cool, you know, and then um but but yeah, so and then um, so just before they say goodbye, right? We um my my ex, my daughter's mum said to your new partner at the time. Partner at the time, she said, Oh, um, uh make sure you uh along the lines of oh make sure you look after my my Benson. Because she used to say that like a lot, like, you know, my Benson. Um so she obviously didn't like that. I think it's just trying to make her jealous. Yeah, yeah, stir the pot. So and guess what she said to the she said she said, uh, oh don't you worry. She said, she said, um, I'm not the one who is um can I swear? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She goes, I'm not the one who is fingering myself uh on Instagram to some guy, to some stranger overseas. Well, how'd she tell you that? Bro, boom, boom, boom. What punch on, yeah, man. My uh my daughter's mom started spitting, started slapping, scratch. I tried to break it off, she scratched me, she spat on me, and that's what she does, bro. She just she's she's a spitter, she she loves spitting. Yeah, in front of the kids. In front of the kids, kids, man. Yeah, she's done that to me before too, like when when before before we had the girls, like we were when we had like little arguments, disagreements, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

When Asha was your your ex the the mother to your two children?

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Uh she's English, English from UK. Say no more.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Um yeah, yeah. Sorry, so the fight happened.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Um fight happened, everything was on CC TV. CC TV. Um so broke that off. We went straight to the cop shop.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

How old were the girls at the time?

SPEAKER_01 40:29

How old?

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Yeah.

unknown 40:30

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Uh this was um 2020.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Yeah, babies, man.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Can I remember that? Do you know? So do do can can they remember that today?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Like good question, actually. That's why I got all this, yeah. You know, just so they can look through like when they grow up and they can see you, like, you know. I've got piles and piles of of facts and evidence and yeah, you know. Oh, it's good, but I don't know what what what they've been told. Yeah, haven't you?

SPEAKER_02 40:57

That's right. I mean, that's a good thing about this podcast. You know, I always say like when our parents were around, if this happened, you know, there was no social media, they could just write a letter, hope they got it. But as the power of social media and internet today, we can leave our message and our storyline, time, and date stamped here. And you know, when they get old in life and they Google your name, or this this episode will pop up and they'll watch it and go, you know, that's what happened. You know, so um yeah, sorry, man. So the fight happened.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

So they went to the police, his ex wanted to go press charges, and obviously she assaulted Benson, but he didn't want to press charges. That's the mother of his kids. But his ex did.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Yeah. And um Yeah, press charge.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

And so your the mother of your children wanted to press charges on your partner at the time. No, the partner at the time, yep, yep, yep. Yep, yep, got yep, and what the police say.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

She got charged with assault. She got charged. Yeah, no conviction, but charged with assault. Um then that's where it all started.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Yeah, okay, yeah. So that's when it's all started, man. Um so that happened. Okay, so that happened on the ninth. 9th of March. Yeah. That fight. On the 10th of March I messaged my daughter's mum because because the next day is like the Wednesday when I'm supposed to get the girls. No reply, no nothing. Um and then 16th of March TV. TV. Cops came to my door. I'm like, what's going on? Like, oh, you I said, What's that? Open it up.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

What the hell's this?

SPEAKER_01 42:46

And just full of false allegations and she didn't even go to the police.

SPEAKER_04 42:52

She went straight to the courthouse.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Went straight to the TV registry office downstairs. And this is where it just pissed me off.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

So what was the what was her what was the main allegation that they for them to put it on you, you know?

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Bro, it's fucking ridiculous, man.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

It's um there's um emotional abuse because they had an argument back before they got married, and he made her take the engagement ring off.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Yeah, that and and one of them also that um I have to tell her when she can and when she can't eat.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

Oh yeah, she tried to say that he told her when she's allowed to eat and drink.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

I had uh, I don't know, did you remember uh pretty sure it was Tracy McMillan's episode? Um the she was a lawyer, Barrow Stones all that. Oh, yeah, yeah. Pretty sure Tracy gave me an example one time where she represented her client and um they were driving home and she wanted some you know, pull over smash avocado eggs on toast. And he said, We've got avocado at home, like let's save our money. Or was that cursive control or what are the financial oh some seriously? Yeah, sorry, man. No, you're right, man.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

I do that to you all the time.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

But you know what, and like that you know that D V registry office, men aren't allowed in there, from what I've been told. I mean, I've never been there, but a guy time he walked in there, they asked him to leave.

SPEAKER_04 44:08

Wow. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Yeah. Yeah, it's uh yeah, I I I learned that too the hard way, uh yeah, instead of going to the police, like all the um courthouse uh sorry, all the um lawyers. There's a D V re registry office downstairs at the courthouse and they just go in there and you know my life's in danger and XYZ and there you go, DVA. This is weird, it's fing stupid, man.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Like they like they need to I think this whole like they need to be educated on that because the thing is like you know, like I feel like you know, if you sneeze the wrong way, you get a you got a DV. If you bash someone, you get a DV, but they're all going the same path.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Yeah, everything's DV. Everything. My lawyer, he told me, gave him a heck exactly. If Benson put this remote up here and it was too high for you to reach, that's DV. DV. You know, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 45:02

I'm gonna get a diary and start writing that.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Like, and it's just and you know, you know, I'm guilty myself. Like, I you know, I've said this before, you know, back in the day when someone said there's a DV on him, I would automatically throw, oh woman basher. But mate, I'm I'll I'll put the hand down now because when I hear this, people go there's DV on him, so I'll just sit back and go, mate, there's I'm not gonna, there's always two sides of the story. And you know, I had two put on me, and um, you know, I fought the first one, one, and then they just put another one on me again. But um, you know, uh Paul Enhancer came on and and explained it quite well, you know, if there's gonna be the DV system needs restructuring, at least put like a uh Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 DV system. Like you got to categorize it. Yeah. Because, you know, someone could assault someone or bash someone or burn someone, and then someone could not pull over, give them avocated toes, but it's still the same form, and everyone categorized, you know, then tier one, like um, I can't remember how uh Sonny Hansen broke it down, but tier three could just be like uh I think it went from uh verbal abuse to like stalking to physical, something like that, you know. Um but yeah, sorry, man.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

No, you're right, but they they they forget that that it like there's kids involved, like it's affecting the kids, like you know, like she had his kids on there, her cousin, her cousin's son, who he had nothing to do with. So, like you said, if you put the control too high too high, you don't get to see your kids.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Yeah, and um and I guess this is where supervised contact center gets introduced, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Man, it's like you said, bro, this is this whole thing is it's like a fucking circus. It is, bro. You know? So you know, have you been to circus before, Jeremy?

SPEAKER_02 46:39

I've I went to what I thought was a circus where there's clowns and people jumping the troops, and I went to the real circus, which is family court, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, so it's like that, bro. So you know when you go to a circus, yeah, the first thing that you see that comes out to start the show is the clown. Clown juggling. No, no, it's the clown. Yeah, yeah. The clown that comes out that walks around and just the yeah, so that's the ex. Yeah, yeah. Because that's the instigator, you know, because if that didn't happen, all these other dicks wouldn't be jump on, you know. And it's like a money-making thing, you know, everyone wants a piece of the cake, you know.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

The DV system, the supervision conduct centers, the colour. The child reporter, ICL, it's a big catch camp.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Like, you know, like I'm just waiting for someone to to come up with like a new position just so they can make a bit of money. Like always, well, yeah. You know, like a children's, I don't know, like yeah, I'll get it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

All the programs and courses I had to do.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Oh, whatever, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I did that too, man. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Yeah, and you do the course and it's not good enough. Like they asked you to do the course and didn't like, uh tell me to go do another one. What do you mean do another one? I just did the one you told me to do. Oh go do this, go do that. It never ends.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Go do another hair follicle test. I just did one. Or go do another one. What do you mean do another one? You know, it's like it just never ends. Nothing's ever good enough.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

So when I did my um uh men's behavior course, yeah, I did I had to do that. They they actually couldn't decide which category to put me on because of my story. You know, because a lot of the guys in there is like it they might have assaulted the ex or something. Yeah, and it's like a recent um like it's like a recent um altercation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like mine is like Yeah, 10 years ago or something. Exactly. So I'm like, you know, and and and and and the lady there, she's like, oh just I said, man, this is not me. Like the and the videos that they play for you, I don't know if the if you saw it, but it's like it's violent, like guys being violent.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Yeah, and you see them going cray.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

And then and then she's like, okay, let's do let's let's um let's do a uh um reenactment or scenario. Yeah, I'm like, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_02 48:40

Like when it's not me, like you know, like isn't interesting that there's not a women's behavioral program there.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Exactly. And then all the videos are just men's, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Um how'd you go? Because what broke me out of that whole circus was the supervised contact centers. That broke.

SPEAKER_04 48:59

How didn't you even reach that yet?

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Okay, yeah, sorry, we'll jump there. We'll do the timeline. Um so there's so does um do you attempt to fight the DVO?

SPEAKER_04 49:10

No, sorry, in June that year he went to court for it, and the duty solicitor told him to consent without admission.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

This is where I want to let all the people like you know, it it's full of shit, bro. Like you know, like they you know, I went there, you know, like thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

It's not your fault because it's uncharted waters, but this is why I do the podcast because it's your first time here. Oh, the duty solicitor must know, you know, he's a subject matter expert, and then you really you do what he's told, then you realize this is just fuck me for the rest of the yeah. It's just going they're going by a piece of paper. Yeah, yeah. Which is and you know those justice, they just you know, they're getting paid whatever the bare minimum, they're just trying to freeze past everything. Yeah. Yeah, so uh I'll I'll let you say the r the uh advisor files out there don't consent to not consent.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

They try to suck you in, like, you know, like because I I I I went there and didn't think much of it. I thought appear in court, you know, whatever, blah blah blah. You know, I didn't do anything wrong, like you know, I've got the evidence, you know. But when there the duty solicitor she's like oh um you you can either plead guilty um or you can fight. Fight your DVO, you you gotta have a lawyer, you have to pay, blah, blah, blah. You know, you have to spend X amount of money to fight. Or she goes, just uh consent without admission. I'm like, what's that? Oh most most people do that because um it's it's just it's just an easy way to uh like you you you know you um exec words, but she made it sound so appealing. Appealing, yeah. Just do that, you know, like like there's nothing that there's no you know, you don't have to fork out any money, like there's no outcome, you know, whatever. Next minute went in there five years. Yeah, that's minimum. You know, like you five years, like you and that's where they make their money, bro, out of that five years, you know. So now I just tell everyone, man, bro, if you get a DV up, man, you fight it. You know, don't don't fall for that crap. Like, yeah, absolutely, man.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

I agree. Fight it. Yeah, it's um because it affects you so much. So the DV is on you, you know. Depending on where you if you where you work or who you work for, and and if you got weapons, I had weapons, they come and took my weapons and my licenses, and I was working for the federal government at the time. I had to inform the integrity board, and you know, if if I was carrying a weapon at the time, I would have been restricted and put on a different role, and you know, kids are on the DVO, so that means you gotta go in a contact center, and it's just uh it just affects you everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Yeah, man, and the the amount of um like man stuff that she used from that DVO, like you know, trying to get the power card used against you. Yeah, yeah. Um what is it? Um you know, like for the schools, schooling and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 52:06

Oh yeah, she got cheap C school fees and she didn't pay the home loan, she didn't pay the rents or the water. She went a part of the urban care team because she claimed financial abuse.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Had you sorry I forgot, did you guys own a house together or the rent? Yeah, we did. So what what what did you end up doing? I suppose in family court that comes up and after family court after okay, yeah, okay. The house was the last. So when actually, yeah, so when when what year did you start court? Or even DV or 2020.

SPEAKER_04 52:39

2020.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

2020, and then Family Court just finished recently? Uh like a year ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:45

Yeah, a year ago. And then his property settlement just happened in April this year.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

How that go. Oh, that we actually won't jump to we'll we'll keep doing this storyline. Um so yep, you've come out of the courthouse, they've slapped a five-year DVR, and yeah. Five years?

SPEAKER_04 53:01

This would have been June 2020. 2020.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

So much COVID. Yeah. So my daughters was in private school. Yeah. Well, you know, during during the time I had DVO, and then when when my DVO finished.

SPEAKER_04 53:14

They're in public school.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

No, they're in public school.

SPEAKER_04 53:19

Um and then we started dating in July 2020.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

July 2020, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:27

And then that's when he was open and told me about the DVO, and I was like, red flags because I thought DVO is a good one. Yeah, I know the position you're and then I I had read through and I was like, are you serious?

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Like, yeah, this is it.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

How the fuck do you have a DVO?

SPEAKER_02 53:42

But that gives you, because I've had a lot of partners on, gives you a insight to go, really, like this is what's going on. Yeah. So real quick, how do you guys meet, and then I'll do your timeline.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

So Colette used to bring her sons to my shop. Baba, yeah. I used to cut their hairs and uh like back in the day, and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:00

There was one time he was busy, and his ex had to come and cut my boy's hair, and she was messing it up. And so I was like, Stop, and then waiting for Benson to finish. And he came and finished it off.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

So that's how we meant.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

I know what it's like. I got a barber, I've got a certain barber and uh for him. Um okay, we'll do your time on it. So mate, uh, what where were you born and what was life for Kikolette growing up?

SPEAKER_04 54:22

Uh I was born here in Brisbane and I'm one of eight.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_04 54:26

My parents came here from the UK, so my mum was like, I'm gonna have a baby.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Oh, are you from the UK?

SPEAKER_04 54:30

No, you were and she was like, I want to have a big family, so you have each other, but we all don't talk to each other.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Oh, true. So how many brothers, how many sisters?

SPEAKER_04 54:40

My brothers, two sisters.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 54:42

Yeah. And then I had horrible childhood, but I know my siblings are gonna watch this and I'm gonna talk about it. Um, but when I was 16, I used to be a party animal. My friend used to tell the parents that I sing out of my house and then go get drunk in a park and rock up at six in the morning. My mum didn't care. And then I got like pregnant at 16, had my first son at 17.

SPEAKER_03 55:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 55:08

And then my mum was kind of like, you're still young, let me look after him, and you go out. So I went partying again in the drug scene and crazy. And then I got pregnant at 21 and I was like, this is my son. Like, I have to still slow down.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Yeah. So are your parents still together? You mum or okay, yeah. Well, what did you do when you were young?

SPEAKER_04 55:31

Uh it would have been like 2003. Okay. It should have been way before that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

How how how were you at the time when you when they started?

SPEAKER_04 55:41

Uh would have been teenager.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Did that play effect on you at all?

SPEAKER_04 55:47

Um, it probably affected me more than she stayed with them longer.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Oh, okay. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Um, so sorry, yep, keep going. So at 21, you have your second child?

SPEAKER_04 55:56

Yeah, I had my second child. Both of their dads have never seen them. So I was always a single mum. I've tried to reach out to them and be like, come meet your sons, and they just never wanted to.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 56:07

And then I worked seven days a week to support them. Um, and then met Benson in my early 30s.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Nice. Yeah. Um, what were you doing for work at the time when you met Benson? Real estate. Oh, yeah. Oh, you still do real estate today?

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Yeah, but just behind the scenes now. Yeah. One of my weekends back.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Yeah, nice. Um, all right. So you guys meet, you've gone on a date. He told you about which I totally know. Like, I I remember I went on a date one time and uh I had my daughter every second Saturday and Sunday. Um, but uh I think I had her for three hours on the Saturday, three hours on the Sunday. And she said, Oh, what are you doing this uh, you know, what are you doing tomorrow? I said, I've got my I had my daughter today, and you know, it was a Saturday, Saturday night. And she goes, Oh, um, how often do you have her? I said, I'll have her every second weekend, I've got her tomorrow. And she's like, Oh, I thought you said yeah, you have her every second weekend. I said, I do, I've just got her for three hours tomorrow. She's like, Why do you only have her for three hours? I'm like, Oh, here we go. And I'm thinking, well, uh, I've got to go to Supervision Contact Center. She's like, What's that? And I get it. You know, she's looking at me going, Who is this? Is he a rapist, pedophile, you know? Yeah. And it's you don't want to you don't want to go on a date because you don't want to talk about life, and you then you end up living this double life because you don't want to talk about yeah, it's yeah, it's uh yeah, yeah. So sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:25

So what Yeah, so when we started dating, like I knew he had daughters that he didn't see, and then eventually he opened up to me and told me, and he was such an amazing stepfather to my boys. So I was just like, let me read through, like, what is going on. And then when I read it, I was like, Every we met each other like a month earlier, so I could have helped you fight this DBO. This is unfair. And then I was like, We need to go to family court, like regret that down because I didn't realize. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

You think you're doing the well, you're doing the right thing, you think, all right, well common sense should prevail, and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:06

So we went family court, and we started that in 2020, end of 2020, and did not realize just how mentally unstable his ex would be.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

Yeah, just what's your so what's your state of mind? You so Colette says, Let's go to family court. What's your it's gone through through your mind? Like you're thinking, oh yeah, nah, um how's it work? What do we do?

SPEAKER_04 58:36

Yeah, I I think at that stage He had a really crap first lawyer. And that was like red flags then. I was like, shouldn't keep going. But they managed to get him the supervised visit in 2021.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Yeah. Had the uh how was that for you? For me, it's I'm still scarred today. Yeah, yeah, I'm still scared. I don't know where you went, but mine is an Ipswich, I'm not gonna say the name, but my first contact center um I went to, um, she was very nice. Uh she understood the situation. She even said to me, I know you don't need to be here, I'm sorry, but it's you know, we're just doing our job. I said I get it. But um, yeah, I broke down, bro. Started handover at the end, you know, took me about three months to stop crying. But um, because you know, my daughter was six months when we broke up, you know, still baby.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

But you know, you know when you say, you know, oh she's nice, uh, and she said to you, I know you don't need to be here, but really, like, I feel like saying, then why aren't you? Yeah, why are you taking these people? Like, why are you?

SPEAKER_02 59:39

Because you know what? I they don't have the powers. Like that, yeah, I know they write reports, but it's like um I ended up here because of uh allegations my ex-made, and she kind of said, Look, we're just here to provide a space, like um, you know, the courts gave you this order, and you know, I've come here. So she like she was very didn't didn't make me feel bad, didn't profile me, didn't judge me. The second contact center I went to, I had mad mad runnings there, you know, the way they like when I've the first contact center, it was just a one-on-one conversation. You have to do the consult or whatever. Yeah, we had just a nice friendly convo, and I was crying because it said you have to write which apparent needs to be supervised. I said, I'm not writing my name. Yeah, I'll feel like this form because I want to see him, I'm not writing my name. But the next contact center, three three females sitting around the table questioning me. You know, just the console. And I said, I'll I'm gonna remember this, I'm gonna remember this moment because in the future I'm gonna tell. I didn't think I was gonna do a podcast, but I said, in the future I'm gonna tell my story somewhere. Um, and yeah, there was hiccups at handover and just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

But um And this is what I mean, man, like all these idiots, like they're just going by this piece of paper, you know, like it's yeah, like every one of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

Yeah. What uh how much were they charging you an hour? Can you remember? Weekdays, weekends.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:57

120 now, I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Was it weekday or weekend? Weekend. Weekend, yeah. It's one time they try to rip us off too.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:03

The second time. Second time? Second time around.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

Yeah. And it's sort of, you know, I I've met a father, you know, he I he's he was allowed a few hours of a weekend, but he goes, I can't afford all I can afford is one hour. I was like, man, feel for this bloke, you know? You know, like you do three hours, what, 360 bucks? Yeah, you know, not everyone can afford that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

Bro, I still remember one time, you know, like when when I started seeing my daughters there and and my youngest one, you know, she she she said to me, um, I'll never forget this man. She said to me, Why do I have to see you here, Dad? You know, it's like and and you have to lie to them, you know? Like, it's I feel like fuck, why should I fucking lie to you?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:45

Like, and I feel like I feel like last time you went.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

I feel like telling her the truth about that, you know what, one day, one day, you know, that's why I've got all this. One day, just read through it. Why, why, why your dad had had to see you here, like why, you know, and and what pissed me off is this whole fucking um um best interest for your fucking full of shit, man. You're you're fucking my guilt, my my my daughters up, you know, with all this, you know, like again, going going going by this piece of paper with full of false allegations, and then when you should do your homework and and you know, like you should have someone like assessing it, you know, like okay, this is serious, maybe you should go in this category.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:28

This is go in this room.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

Yeah, yeah, this is oh this is uh okay, this is emotional abuse or whatever they want to use towards the ex. Oh, it's gonna do with the kids. You know, it's like they have to bring the kids into it. Yep, you know what I mean? Yep. Yeah, that's why it's pissed me out.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:45

He did four sessions the first time around at the supervision center, and then he just stopped and was like, I can't mentally do it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

Yeah, yeah, that's what happened to me. Uh, you know, I did all the content, got the reports, and then I was allowed to unsupervise, sort of to do the handover at supervised, and then face my allegations, and they put I went, did all the hard work to get to five hours unsupervised every second Saturday and Sunday, and then went straight back to one hour supervising it. And I I just looked at my mum like one one hour being McDonald's and I broke. I said, I can't do this.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:16

Yeah, I thought she was trying to push for the third time around. Yeah, you know, and they I know they're just on the job, but you know, yeah, when you're out in public, there's someone there behind you with you know, a lanyard with kids and writing notes, like people looking at what's going on over here, you know, like what I think the mothers should be sent there first when they do the intake, they should be made to spend like two hours there with their kids so they can feel what it's like.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

Yeah, that's right. Um, yeah, I I I I know you feel your pain and frustration, man, because yeah, that even today, man, I would driving past that place or near there, I just uh yeah. Um what other before we move on, what uh what other stuff hurdles did they make you jump in family? No, I didn't do it. Uh any hair tests? Any hair follow tests?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

Not that she luckily didn't ever claim he was an alcoholic or at least she didn't have to go there.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

Family report?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:13

Yeah, family reports.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

That was a lot of shit too.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

Did you did you get a private one or used the court one? The court one.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

The court one, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

Um but they had to interview the the the mum fish. Yeah, yeah. Did you she get all the stories? Yeah, same as something. Oh, okay. Did um was your fan report write a finger? Yeah. Was her initials J L.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:38

The person might have been.

unknown 1:04:39

I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

I would never forget that, ladies. I remember that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:43

But the report was so bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

Of course, I know. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Yeah, so you know, they watch you for half an hour and then they're like how they they can um write a report in in in that amount of time and and and straight away and judge you for the future. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

Watch you for half an hour, and then we'll write this report about whether you can spend you know, and in this synthetic environment where you know And and clearly it's got a recording, remember I said um my daughter said to me, Oh, uh, I wanna I wanna live with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

I wanna live with you, I wanna be, you know. She didn't put that in there? No.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Yeah, I know, because when I left the when I left the family report writer, um when they separated me from my daughter, she started crying. Do you think she put that in the report?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

Of course not. I remember too, so when when we got there nice and early, right? Waiting. And then I saw my daughters.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:35

Well, we had a little boy at that time too. So it's the first time seeing their brother, baby brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Because that's like a like a like a window, and my daughter saw saw us, man, she just ran and just jumped on me and gave me a big hug. And and um yeah, and then and then we wanted to I wanted to take a photo like my my my daughters and and and my son, you know, and my ex um my ex mom was there with her. And she said, Oh, don't don't do that. This is not the time for family photos.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:05

I feel like saying And then she was like, Come on, go us and took them away.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

Yeah. Where did you have to go for firm report? Like the building in the city?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:15

Yeah. Yeah. The legal aid office.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Um. And when you went back the second time, did you use the same family report?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:24

No, the second time was via Zoom.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

Oh, because of COVID or because of no.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:29

No, because we were trying to put a discontinuance in and said we don't want to proceed. And then his lawyer at the time was like, the ICL wants to proceed, you have to attend.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

Uh don't get me started on ICLs. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:41

We had to.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:43

Um I I think this yeah, it's a whole lot. Yeah, again, uh another fucking set of clowns.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:49

He still had Monday, Wednesday, Friday phone calls between five and six. He was allowed to call. And like the phone would be off, or it should be distracting them, or it's dinner time. And then he would talk like for two minutes, and then his youngest is like, I've got to go now, dinner's ready.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Always. I'll I'll ring.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:11

We recorded all the phone calls. I got all of the phone calls. And then we showed like his lawyer and we wanted to write a transcript for court. They don't care.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:19

Yeah. We had all these.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:22

All this evidence, all this hard, real evidence that you get, they don't care. But what whatever the mum says, okay, they'll take it down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:30

Oh, have you recorded a conversation? Okay. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

And and they even say, oh, you know, when when it's your time to call, like they should be like in a in a nice quiet room and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:39

Private room.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:40

Not even. When I call them, the TV's like nice and loud, and you know, I'm like, or his youngest would be like, Oh, Mum told me I have to be in my room or else you get angry at her. Yeah. Oh, oh, and then it's one time too. My daughter's like, Oh, can I can I say that, Mum?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:54

Like, or oh yeah, she would ask your mum permission or what to say.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

What to say? Like it's like she's coaching or what to say. I was like, oh my god, I'm not gonna do this, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

Uh and then so obviously, and then so the you put a discontinuance in, but the IC.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:08

No, so this is still the first one, still pending and getting adjourned and whatnot. And then come August 2021, Benson gets a phone call from his ex and was like, our youngest is in hospital, she's been diagnosed with leukemia.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

And was that was that a real thing, or was she just saying?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:28

No, that was a real thing, so we went straight to the hospital. Um, and then that's when the first time like I met her, and it was like 8:30 at nine, we rushed straight to the hospital. And then Benson would go to all the hospital appointments like every single day. And then his lawyer at the time was like, You're breaching your DVO, you can't be in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

Oh yeah, and this is the shit. Um, this is what I the environment I'll try and explain to fathers, because um it was the same thing. My grandmother was on uh was on her deathbed, she fell over hit her head. And I asked my ex, I'd got my legal team, I asked her legal team to bring um so my ex could bring my daughter to hospital so she could meet my daughter before. I was breaching DVO, you know, because she brought it, but you know what? What would you all these what would you do in our position? Yeah. You know what I mean? You know, like it's just so stupid. It's just like you know, and if she's that scared of her life, yeah, wh why would she come there in the first place?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:26

And she would be messaging Ben said and like, come to the hospital at this time, and he would go. There were a couple of times when I'm like, I don't feel comfortable you going by yourself. Not because I was jealous of her, I just didn't want him in the same room as her.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

Yeah, she even tried threatened me with the DVO while I was at at the hospital because we had a little disagreement downstairs outside the hospital.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:46

Or because he asked if they could get a second opinion from another doctor. And she didn't want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

Like, what state of mind is she in? You guys at hospital, the priorities. Your daughter's been diagnosed with leukemia, and all she can think about is oh I'm gonna breach with you. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

Like, man, it's just so petty and just so man, I think like man, nothing, nothing, like throughout, you know, when I think back, like throughout the the journey, bro, like nothing really broke me apart from the supervision center when when I when when my when when my daughter asked me why I have to see her there, and I have no answer for her. That was the first one, the second one was that last time I saw her at the hospital and and I had to say to her, take it on the other hand.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:55

So after they had their little argument at the front, he went up to the room and just said that daddy's gotta go and said his goodbyes to her and then he left. That was the last time. But also, like when she was in hospital and then at home, his ex would message him and be like, Can you come to the house? You can come to the house, and he would reply and say, I don't feel comfortable with this DVO. Like, I don't r think you realize the seriousness of this DVO, and she'd be like, Oh, I'm inviting you, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

I've I've even got recording of her admitting that she did the whole DVO, like she apologized.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

Like I recorded the phone conversation, I just had a gut feeling like to start recording, and she's like, I'm so sorry. Everyone told me to do it. But then a year later, she tried to breach him.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

So when you're at the hospital, that was August 21.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:50

Yeah, 21. And then he would have seen her for the last time October 220.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

21?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:58

Yeah. And I was pregnant at the time, and I even invited his ex and the girls to our baby shower. Like, even though I knew it would be a breach of DVO, I just wanted to like give it the olive branch and invite them. Oh, what did his girls there? Um, and then our little boy actually came six and a half weeks early, so he was premium, on the same day as his older sister's birthday.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

Oh, no way.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

Um so you the last time you saw your daughter after the hospital visit was October 21? Yeah. Then when was the next time you seen her?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:33

Um at the children report meeting would have been April 2022. And during from October to April, he didn't call them either. He couldn't call me. Yeah. And she'd be like, Why aren't you at the hospital anymore? He didn't know what to say to her.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

Oh man, I feel for you, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:56

Um And then she tried to use it against him like he didn't come to the hospital. He's not aware of her diagnosis or what she's been through or what tablet she's got to take. Like she was cancer free pretty much straight away, and then she was still on the chemo tablet. And then she used it against him and was like, you stop communication. And we were getting updates from their mutual friend. She had a little group chat and they'll message us and be like, This is what was happening. So we knew what was happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:26

How's your daughter now all good? She's all placed. Okay, that's good. That's good. That's good. I couldn't imagine the stress that uh that put on you while still dealing with family court, DV, everything on top, COVID, and now she tried to breach me five times.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:42

Yeah, so April was the family report writer time, and then it would have been July, I think it was. We were going to court, family court, but not final family court. It was like just a catch-up. Um, and then that's when do you remember July 2022? Oh, it was actually just before the family court proceedings first starting. She then went and breached him for the DVO.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:13

Was it breach over?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:15

So one of the breaches was we were out at local shops, around. We were there like every second day. Um, and she claims that Benson within 100 meters or something. Yeah, Benson tried to walk towards her. He didn't even notice her. And I saw her and I was like, she's here, we've got to go. And we left straight away. The second one was we took our little boy for regular swimming lessons, and it was uh Tuesday, a school day. We went in the mornings and she was there. We had no idea she would be there. It was a school day. Um, third one was oh Facebook post. So he had a Facebook post, it was a year and a half earlier saying something about deadbeat moms. Deadbeat moms keep the children away from the dads, like and so the police were like, oh, plead guilty to this one and we'll drop the other charges. This is the most serious one. That was the first one to get thrown out straight away because of the timing. Because it was a year and a half later, she reported it conveniently just before family call, but they obviously didn't see the pattern.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:20

And those cops too both, like some of them are just blankers. Yeah, they they come in and they they bang on your door.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:25

They came at 7 30 on a Friday night and as if it likely wasn't outlined, they came to my house.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

As if you're a criminal or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

Like I um I agree with that. And to re to restore some faith in your humanity in cops, um, I have a few that are big supporters of the podcast. They they message me, they they they can't comment because they're still in the in the force, but they say even that one from New South Wales called me last week, he said, mate, just say no, you have a lot of back in the force down here, they won't tell you online. But he said, 'cause they're sick, they then they agree with everything your podcast is about. They're sick of dealing with bullshit DV. Um they're bounded by the legislation. So, you know, they I had some cops that tell me they've left the job because of it, because someone will come in DVO, no evidence, and they just know like we're about to go to this father's house and unfortunately destroy his life, even though we don't agree. Yeah. And but because we're bounded by a legislation we have to do. That's just the way to do it, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:27

Like, yeah, and even when they knocked, like I told them the full story. Exactly, and they still wanted to proceed. Actually, no, they weren't going to proceed, and we didn't hear from them for a couple of months, and then it was just before the final family orders were going to be done, and her friendly neighbor, her boyfriend, came as a witness to say, Yeah, I saw him walk towards her.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:50

Never met me before.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:51

Never met, said that he could recognize us. We didn't even know he existed. And he referred to Benson as heavily tattooed, tan skin, lots of jewelry.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:01

Gangster, killer, bikey, all that shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:04

Um we didn't even know his name.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:06

Like even though interesting you say that, say neighbor. Um, my neighbor um was uh eight. So we went to DV trial and I, you know, I had affidavit supporting me from day one. But um two weeks before we go to trial, you know, 18 months later, miraculously, two supporting statements came in. Uh for my examination was the neighbor.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:29

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:31

Yeah. Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:33

Um So just before then the final family court orders were gonna be done, we were gonna pull out and we're just like, nah, this is just too much. And then he got a legal aid lawyer, and she was like, No way, we're fighting this. And she was actually really good at that time. And we went to the trial, but trial obviously didn't proceed because they did the negotiations beforehand. And we're just like, okay, we'll sign off on whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:59

Just came to an agreement. So what was the agreement in the year?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:03

So four months back out supervised visits, and then four months at his mum's house. Like, supervised.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:11

Yeah, I'd do supervised mum's.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:12

And then four months just half day Saturday, half day Sunday, and then four months for a whole day Saturday, whole day Sunday every fortnight. And then it was gonna go to overnight, and just before it's gonna go to overnight, I was just like, no, not doing it. She's gonna do the sexual allegations, like I can see her pattern.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:33

And so where are we at now? Like, so did did did you end up doing the four month supervise?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:39

Yeah. So during that time as well, he had the breach court getting adjourned every month and then finally got found not guilty and like charges dropped, and police prosecutors paid towards his legal fees. And they were also like, Oh, his partner wanting to do a statement. I was like, Oh, happily do a statement. So I went into the police station, I was like, take my statement, like then court should get cancelled after you do my statement. But no, they still proceeded. But when we were in there, silly ass went together and they were like, Oh, we actually need to question you, De Benson. And he was like, not without my lawyer. And they were like, no, no, it'll be really quick. Just come on in. So he went in and they were like, Oh, she's come to breach you again because his youngest ran up to him to hug him and give him a kiss during uh pickup.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:31

Yeah, it's um, you know, I don't know if it's because they're lazy or because they're under the apartment these days. Some some of them they don't even knock on your door, they just call you, like, can you come down the room?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:39

They were trying to call them all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:41

There was another time when he got a call as well. They're like, Oh, we've received a call. Um, have you got a drone? And he was like, No. And they're like, Have you ever flown a drone? And he was like, I wouldn't know how to. They're like, Where were you during this time and this day? And he was like, I was cutting hair. And they're like, Oh, we've had your ex call to say you're flying a drone over her house. And he had cameras inside his barbershop and outside, and I was like, quickly on the app, like downloading, timestamping.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:08

Yeah, I remember I got a phone call. I was I was training down at the it was a Saturday, training at the gym, I got a phone call, private number. Like, oh, it's Constable So-and-so about your house. I checked the C C TV there. I was like, what do you want? Like, are we here to serve you or something? But what is it? Like, we can't tell you. I was like, well, I know what that is. And they're like, when are you gonna be home? I said, can't tell you. I'll be I'll be back I'll be back Monday. And then um called my lawyer and he's like, oh, they must be trying to serve dear only. So I just I just didn't go I just didn't go home till uh Monday. I drove up to gun store Brownspace somewhere Monday. I had a C beautiful CZ shadow, two handgun, blue and black one, and um sold it, and then came came back and went to the police station they served me and they tried to come to my house to take my weapon and unlucky, already sold it. So um but you know I I didn't want them to get it, so uh got their cash instead. But um yeah, so so you they brought you in, so you've gone into statement, but then they've brought Benson in and said I'm trying to preach her, and then what happens from there?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:12

Sometimes I wonder if they like actually read like what's in because like when I was in court, like man, like seriously, I was just sitting there going, like shaking my head, like even the uh police prosecutor, like he bro, he he just felt like he he wasn't prepared. Like you know, when you get questioned, like he's got he's like, Oh give me one second, like he's you know, I'm I'm I'm thinking, man, if you're defending someone, wouldn't you know the story?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:38

Like, you know, like you know she asked for a safe room, she asked for uh screen up because she feared for her life. Safe room.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:45

I'm like, come on, guys, like you if you read like what's in front of you So yeah, so my um my my army mate, he's um he's got a DV on his ex um and he he's he breached her and he goes to court and she's in the safe room and he's in the court and goes and he's looking around going, Well, is she in the safe room? Yeah, shouldn't I be in the safe room? You know, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:08

No men allowed.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

No men allowed in there. All about equality, and should I have to do it?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

They they they play it like and like you said, man, it's like a circus, like they they really play it. Yeah, so we're in the courtroom, and and she wanted a a screen in like between me and her. So they went and got those, you know, the the whiteboard, they had to wheel it in to put it.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:30

And then they were asking her what her relationship was with a friendly neighbor, and she was like, It's private. They're like, You're under oath, it's court, nothing's private. What's your relationship? And she's like, I don't want to discuss it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:42

And she did the whole crying thing, and yeah, oh fucking hell. Like it's like, come on, man. You're wasting everyone's time.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:48

You're you're you're you're I've always said uh, you know, what like married at first side, that obviously has a lot of ratings, right? Whatever, you know, because it drive. I said, mate, put a put a camera in the DV court. You want ratings? Oh yeah. You watch everyone tune in the that DV court season, you know? Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:05

Um And then while we're in there too, she's like, Um oh, uh Benson was I I I felt I felt threatened because Benson was walking towards me and he was staring at me, right? That's what she said. And then and then my lawyer goes to her, okay. Um Did you see what Benson was um wearing that day? Like, did he did he have sunglasses on? Was he did he wear sung was did he have sunglasses on? And she's like, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:33

Like that should have been like, okay, not guilty straight away.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:36

How could you if if you don't know, like I could have sunglasses on, like how could you like, you know what I mean? So how do you know I was looking towards you like if you don't even know if I had sunglasses on?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:47

And the funny thing is, like, if we see her out, we leave straight away. Like he runs the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:52

But you know what? You shouldn't have to live like that, you know what I mean? It's it's it's it's what they've dead.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:57

And there was another time as well when his pickups were at McDonald's and she came in and was like, I'm taking the oldest one, you won't come out and get her. And we had a camera set up and she's like talking into the camera, like I've got other camera.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:10

I thought you're fearful for your life. Yeah, she was fully abusing, like fully yelling at at McDonald's.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:16

Yeah, uh people are probably sick of me saying this, but I can't get over this people in prison right now for breaching a DV, and people will think, Oh breach, he must have like bashed someone. No, he replied to a text, yeah. So she'll put a DV on you and say, I'm scared for my life. And then as soon as I go, Hey babe, what do you have to this weekend? And you go, Oh, nothing. Boom, breach. Yeah, and next thing you know, I mean, I couldn't imagine sitting in prison right now, staring at a city, going, I'm in here, like, hey, what are you in for? Oh man, I robbed a bank. What are you in for? I just replied to a text. You're just like, what? You know what I mean? Yeah. I just couldn't. And like I know for a fact, because one, I've got people on, one, my dad's a 30-year correction officer. Oh, I know people in there that uh it's in there for breaching the DV.

unknown 1:24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:57

It's just replying to a text.

unknown 1:24:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:02

Fabricasted. But that by the pedos pedos will walk free, a judge. Oh, we don't want to uh affect his rehabilitation, so he won't get jail time. But you reply to a tax jail.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:13

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:15

I reckon if he had been online that night, they would have arrested him and put him in lockup for the weekend.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:20

Yeah, oh they tried a few times, man. A few times they came knocking, like banging at doors.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:26

Like And I don't think she realized just how serious her liars were gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:34

No, no, you're all yeah. But you know, um, they don't use perjury in court.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:40

No, family court, you can lie and get away with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:43

So what I've been told is that perjury is in place, but you just don't use it. Yeah. You know? Well what's the point of having it? You know, so until someone till they set it, make an example out of someone saying, hey, this actually there's uh I don't know if you follow on Robert Gazza, he's in America. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:58

Yeah, yeah, he's got a lot of.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:59

So he's yeah, he so uh Tony Nicklick, the the lawyer that I had on, he went to meet Robert Gazza, he's friends with him, and he could uh Robert Gaza got across the line. Uh it's called Time Taking Time Back and the Stry Strike Rule. But Time Taking Time Back works, and hopefully I explained this right. So let's just say your ex has f uh fabricated allegations against you, and for for three years during that court system you were robbed of seeing your kids, and it was later it'll proved that those allegations were false. That time yours robbed from you gets taken back and given to the father, you know. And then I think that if if we do that, people are like, oh geez, like I better not lie because if that's gonna drag on five years, I'm gonna I'll lose five years and my kids because go, that's what you know. Yeah, you gotta put something in place that's gonna make an example out of someone to go, hey. There's no repercussions for that. Totally agree. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:48

Um okay, so he had the supervisor visit for four months. Four months. Um it was so disgusting. Like his daughter was in remission and had to wear a face mask. It was mandated for us to wear a face mask as well. She got that in the court order. Benson had to send a fortnightly rat test before he could see the girls. Send a photo every fortnight. If he didn't send the photo, then they wouldn't come.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:14

Yeah, you know, people I remember people were doing they they they got a COVID test that test uh showed it it was negative, and then they just held on to that same one, and then they just take the take a photo so Simon takes away.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:28

She wanted to have in the quarters that he would have to put a date on it. A date on it, like write on it, but it wasn't ever.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:34

Yeah. Yeah, man. Oh man. And then, yeah, sorry, keep going. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:39

Yeah, so we were at the supervised center. First one he did by himself, second one our little boy and myself went, and they had the best home line, they don't want to go home.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:50

Mm.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:51

We had their birthday parties there, Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:54

Oh yeah. Yeah. But what the party for Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:58

Well we'll get to that. And then it was New Year's Day and he was supposed to have them and his oldest one wouldn't come. She was out the door screaming, and the supervisor was like, just take her away and then come back if she comes down. And then his youngest girl told us that they went to bed late for New Year's Eve, and that's why she's just tired. And then because she did that the first time for the last visit, she refused to come. It's just like I can get away with this. I don't want to go. Just stand out the door crying.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:33

Um so was it four months supervised and four months being supervised by your mum? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:39

So the first one we went to his mum's and two of their mutual friends had come because they had a falling out with the mum and they wanted to see the little girls. Like one of them even shaved her hair when she was diagnosed with leukemia. Like they were really close.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:56

You didn't say two of the mutual friends, the kids' friends?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:58

No, the mum and Benson.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:00

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:01

And then when uh his ex saw them there, she asked for them to leave. She was like, I'm not dropping the girls off, Alice said they leave. And so they left because they were like, We're not gonna ruin your first stay here.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:11

And then so yeah, these girls are like used to be good friends with her until they obviously realize all the bullshit that she's been doing. Doing, yeah. So they reached out to us and then started, you know, telling us a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:25

Yeah. Well, at least I I mean, yeah, at least I saw it for what I was in the end. But shame it took that that took that long. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:34

And then the second time at his mum's house, his oldest didn't want to come in. And she was like holding her, like she always holds her. She's like, use your big girl voice if you don't want to stay and just tell them. And I was like, That's your daughter, like, are you gonna do that when she doesn't want to go to school? Like you have to encourage them to go in.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:53

Do you do you eventually get to the uh uh overnight?

SPEAKER_04 1:29:58

No, we haven't.

unknown 1:29:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:00

Is that because something happens?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:02

Um, we stopped at that time.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:04

Yeah. So at what part did you stop at the month? Have you been supervised?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:08

No, so then we went to the unsupervised for the half weekends, and then we went unsupervised for the whole Saturday and whole Sunday. And we only did, I think it was like two months of that, which is like not enough. Because every fortnight he would get an email. Something badly written email with this new allegation.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:26

It's training, it's taxing. Yeah, it takes a toll on you.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:28

Like, even preparing for this to remember everything, I was reading it, I was like, I'm immensely fucked from this. Like, how do we get through it?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:36

I had um is it child safety or something or child safety?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:39

Oh, yeah, child safety called him as well. They're like, We've opened a case against you.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:43

So that's when I'm like, I'm not gonna play this stupid game.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:46

I've faced the child safety, but emotional abuse, psychological abuse towards your daughter.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:52

Yeah. I I've got then I've got everyone's name in my phone, whether it's um child safety, child protection, the family pot family port writer, um, the cops. I've got everyone's name typed in. I'll just I'll never forget those names. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:09

Um We were doing drop-off and pickups at our local McDonald's, and like Benson emailed her and just said, I'm gonna sit inside, you wait outside and just send them in. Like, I don't want to be close by you. But then his lawyer was like, You can't actually sit there. Like the family order overrides the DBO. So then we started sitting outside, and she would like always hold on to his oldest, and she wouldn't come at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:36

One time she tried to breach me too. Um I was I was I was cutting hair and then and then my son, my son rang me. Oh yeah. My oldest son rang me, and um obviously I didn't pick up the cold because I was cutting. And then when I finished cutting, I called my son back.

unknown 1:31:52

Oh, what's up?

SPEAKER_04 1:31:53

On FaceTime. Yeah, and he's like, Oh, um It was with his older sister, oh younger sister, but the older one.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:01

Yeah. So my daughter was there with my with my son. Uh and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:05

She jumped on the phone, they were talking, it was a good phone call. Like she was so happy, they were out shopping, and then he got an email that night and was like, I'm gonna reach you for the DBO, you can't talk to her, it was not your day and time to talk to her. And he was like, My son called me, I didn't know they were together.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:25

It's just l little pet and stuff like that, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:28

And then his son as well, like had no idea that there were the set days and times. Like, he hasn't told his son the whole story.

unknown 1:32:34

Yeah to give him out.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:35

And it's people that don't realize it's draining, like the constant emails back and forth, the new allegations, the you know, the games, it's it's taxi, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:45

The funny thing is so like all her emails, she would always sign a her name and then his surname. Like divorce. Divorce like you put a DVO on this man, that's disrespectful to his family.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:59

Um and so what year, what what time frame were you doing here? What what what month are we in?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:04

So this is 2023, and then 2024. So we uh had the final orders for about six months.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:12

And it was at his mom's house, we're still there, and then she put in urgent orders, then do mediation, went straight to the courthouse, urgent orders to stop the visits. She wanted to do two hours back at the supervision center, and that's it. And then she also wanted for drop-off and pickups to be at the supervision center, not McDonald. So he had to then pay, and she had to pay to pick up and drop off his children.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:42

Oh, so what about the drop-off at the center?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:47

Like pickup, but so she then emailed because it was co-ordered for her to pay half of the fee, and so it was gonna be like fifty dollars each each day, so a hundred dollars each. And then she was like, Oh, can we do pickups from that place? And then I'll come pick pick them up from you at McDonald's. And we're like, that's contradicting it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:08

Like if you're so fearful, like yeah, try. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:14

Um, you guys have a kid during this time? Congrats, all healthy, all well? So good. Bro, he's a little dancer, he's uh he's a TikTok spirit. Michael Jackson, yeah. I've seen the videos. Have you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, man, he's little famous uh little boy. How old is he this year?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:30

He's five this year.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:31

Yeah, nice. Nice. Um and so what you so 2021 he was born? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Beautiful. Um, so when was the last time you saw your daughters?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:45

January 2023 for his oldest. He spent time with her then, and then February 2024 is when we walked away.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:57

This is where this is where it just it just like blows my mind, you know, like you know my son, you know, I get to see my son and my youngest one, like, you know. And then your stepdad and yeah, but the two is like fearful, like this Oh my god, my government.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:13

You know, bro, I um you know, I'm sure you guys have faith that you'll you'll see your you'll connect with your daughters again. And you know, for me, just recently, you know, I hadn't it uh couple couple last month marked the two-year anniversary since I last seen my daughter or heard from her. And um, you know, I just um I people don't know how it's come back, so I haven't updated anyone yet, but I just you know, I sent it my ex had blocked me on everything once you left. Which, you know, it was expected. And so I drafted up a message and um uh I ideally I was gonna send it to my ex's mum, um, the grandmother, but I couldn't find online or email, and all I could find was my ex's um brother and sister online on Facebook. So I sent them the message and you know, it didn't say that the message was read, but you know, when you get a message you can you can read it without pressing accept, you know. So but it obviously got back to my ex and she reached out to my father who was at work and um she sent some photos and videos and um you know I my dad's seven, you know, so I'm sending the messages to pass back on to her, and he doesn't know how to click copy paste the message to put in the easy old, you know. He was getting flustered and um he was like, I'll just drive to you, you can do it. He's a mistress. I was like, No, I like this. And I said, just message her and ask her to unblock me and thing, and um and she did, and it was crazy because you know, this is a woman that I went to war with for three years, um, and even my mum was shocked, and she just called and we just had this peaceful convo about my daughter. Wow, yeah, yeah. And then um I said, Can I have a FaceTime with um well toolish saying um on Sunday? And uh I said, Can you just call me first or five minutes? I need to compose myself, I'm gonna be emotional, and um and yeah, it was it was one thing I always did at handover, um, because my daughter's high-level autistic, speech delayed, processing daughter. I always sung the same song. Um McDonald's, she used to love it. Old McDonald had a farm and wheels on the bus go round and round. And because she has she'd always rub my ears because she has sensory processing daughter, and then you know, she was videoing her, and you know, I hear stories of people that have face on calls and it's controlled, and it would I'm I'm lucky I'm it was it wasn't like that at all. And you know, uh I feel she's obviously just healed from calling moved on, and she said that I'd probably haven't healed, which is probably true, you know. Um because it's it's probably easier for her to heal if she has my daughter every day. But um I just I was scared because you know, when my ex tried to hand my daughter the phone, she just wouldn't hold the phone. She's busy, you know, uh on her iPad and that. Um and I I was trying, I was calling her name, she wasn't looking, she wasn't looking, and as soon as I saw an old McDonald had a phone, she just stopped, froze, and looked at the phone and started smiling. I just my heart just stunk. I was just like, thank you. Um and she just started smiling. So and uh, you know, as we she would then play, but every now and then I'd she she does this side eye, but um, she would come back to the phone and look, you know, and I think it's just gonna take some time, but I know she remembers, so but you know, I've I've no doubt. Um, you know, I know there's some followers out there that it's because you know before this happened, I'd say I haven't seen my daughter for two years, and you could see the comments I haven't seen for four years, six years, eight years, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:25

Um and this is good karma for you having this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:28

Well, you know, yeah, I just it's give faith to the father's out there. You know, I'm sure that it it doesn't always work out for five out there, and uh, you know, I feel for them, but you know, I have no doubt that you will reconnect with your daughter sometime soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:39

And yeah, you know, and that's it. Like, if she was to reach out to us, even if she was to be like, I want to come to a gig with the girls, I'd let her sit with me. Yeah, I know. Like, I dislike you, what you've done is beyond evil, but you're doing what's best for the kids.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:53

I know, I know. And and the and the thing is, like, you know, like she knows this whole thing is a lie, like you know, like the whole fearful and stuff. Like, it's like, man, it's been it's six years now, like I grow up, and even the partner, like, why aren't you knocking sense into her?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:11

Like, yeah, like you you got a partner now, like maybe I reached out to him and he didn't read my or no, he didn't respond to my message, but I know he read it because she tried to use it against Benson. He got an email from her lawyer, assist and desist, and like it's his fault for my Facebook posts and my messages, and he's controlling me.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:32

Not even and then her boyfriend was stalking me, and I exposed him like five times, and he was still stalking me, then he blocked me finally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:40

Is she still with the Tyler guy? No, it is his way.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:43

No, well, we saw them recently after the D Vero finish, and she was with the Tyler guy, her boyfriend and the oldest out of the shops.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:51

I don't know if if the current partner knows anything about the Tyler there.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:56

So it's a bit of a circus itself in that.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:58

Yeah, a bit of a circus itself in that relationship over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:02

But the thing is, like, you know, like I I just I just wish, you know, like if I can talk to her, I just just want to say, like, it's been six years now. You you you've you've found someone, like, you know, move on. Let your daughters like stop fucking around with your daughters, you know, like mental you know mental health, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:18

Especially as young as like she's just gonna think we abandoned her.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:21

Yeah, like we're all happy family. Like they can come to my gigs and like they can.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:26

Well, they won't because they'll watch this episode, you know. And um that that's the beauty about this podcast and social media these days, that you know, once it's out there, it's out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:36

Well, I wanted Benson to do this podcast, not to be negative towards her or for her to think, oh, he's sharing the truth and everyone's gonna know what I'm like now. He did it because he just wanted to create an awareness and speak his truth and get out. Yeah. Like he's built it out for so long.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:55

And what's crazy sad is the amount of followers out there that are in the same position. Yeah, it's epidemic.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:03

And that's why we wanted to talk about it. Yeah, like we watch your videos and we're like, this is like what you've gone through.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:09

Yeah, and look, people like this, it's a merry image. People like this is what I face. Yeah, you know, and it's it's a silver bullet textbook play.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:17

Everyone faces the same hurdles. I I I had a mate um that I used to cut his hair, came in for a haircut. I knew he was going through the same problem, you know. But he came in for a haircut, and then the next day took his own life, bro. Because of that, because of you know, the same whole and you know what?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:35

Um when you go through it, you don't really I I didn't want to start seeing people anymore because they're like, hey man, you know, what's the update on on you you look and you like and then you get an update on like what do you mean you can only see him? What do you mean you're gonna just go? And then people it's the question after question, you just get drained, you know. And I just I'm naturally I'm an introvert, but and then I just I didn't want to see anyone, I didn't want to talk to anyone. I've and I avoided um I remember having my third uh 30 35th better or however I was, and uh I decided to have it at my mate's restaurant, but I thought I'd bring everyone there to update him because I didn't see anyone for years, and I just thought I'd better, you know, update everyone at once, you know. And um but yeah, you know, I can get it. There's probably and you know that that guy, God rest his soul. He he probably didn't want to talk to people about the allegations he's facing because he's either embarrassed or but that's why I'm so open about it because I know when I say child safety, child protection, stuff that people wouldn't want to, like, oh this guy's talking about it. Like, fucking hope I am. Yeah, you know, I'm I'm happy to talk about it too. Yeah, yeah, and then people go, Oh, that's what happened to me, and then like people will come out and talk about it, you know. So um it's only like before, like I felt like you know, I've been forced not to talk, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:44

Like we had to wait for the DVO to finish, she'll try to breach him.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:48

Yeah, I've got so many people lined up going going to come on, but they I said you gotta wait for that. Just wait for that DVO.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:54

I I think it's best yeah who's gonna even like his property settlement delayed and delayed, and then she didn't want to give him like 30%. I think she wanted to give him 20%. We're going back and forth. At this time we were self-representing, so I was like emailing her lawyer, I'm like, you know, beachy. And eventually we basically won. Like we got what we wanted.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:17

More too.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:18

But the we got to choose a real estate agent as well. And the real estate agent called us and was like, I usually siege all the properties. This one is in such bad condition, I cannot. And she had to sell off market. And then we went and had a look, and it's so bad. Like, I can't believe his daughters were growing there, growing up there.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:38

The stairs went like they wouldn't pass a safety test. There was a back balcony with missing fence pailings, the bathroom was disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:47

The tiling ro is done by the tiler. I've got photos, bro, and and videos.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:52

Like, you wouldn't want to hire him as a tiler if you saw that. And it was dirty, the fans were like that thick with dust.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:01

Man, so probably settlement's done. Is it divorced now? Divorce now. Yeah. We missed anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:14

And now it's his 50th. I had a party for him and I asked his son to bring his daughters. I was like, there's no DPO in place, you can't reach out and he didn't respond. And then when I saw him, I was like, Why did you not reply? And he was like, I don't want to be involved. So he don't reach out to try to bring his sisters to the party. That was hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:41

Man, I um obviously I didn't know your full story, and the reason I do that is I I get a brief story, but um but you know, I it's for me if if I know every single detail, then it's I'm kind of preempting what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:54

And um I don't want that because I want the just the convo to be natural and natural flowing and you know, and yeah, man, it's uh it's definitely a heavy story, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:03

You know, so um and I'm always so vocal on my Facebook Yeah, and good on you, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:09

Like obviously if you got a DV on you, like don't be vocal, even though I'm not telling you what to do, but you know, because I'll just fit wearing it Cinderella, but I never said names. Yeah, yeah, you know. Um and I think social obviously with social media today, you know, obviously plays a big part of DV because they just breach all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:27

Like back in the day, I'm sure it couldn't happen, but like if she attempted to breach him for his Facebook post at that time, he probably would have got in trouble for it.

unknown 1:45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:35

And it's so silly, like you know, I got followers that posting photos with the kids. Just them and the kids, like breach.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:41

Oh, she tried to get that in the new breach that he couldn't post.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:44

What's the breach? What's the what's the what's the hurt? What's the harm? What's the threat?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:48

That's why that's why uh actually comes to mind too. You know, I had heaps of people come up to me and go, man, you you you you're always posting about your sons, but you never post any photos of your daughters, you know. I'm like, you know, yeah, I wasn't allowed to. Like I would love to post photos of them, man, you know, like but you know, and I think in their heads like, oh yeah, you you're you know, you're favouritism, yeah. You know, it's like if only you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:14

Yeah, but and you know, I don't wish anyone to walk down the path we have. Yeah, I would have wish upon my worst enemy, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:22

I wouldn't encourage him to do it again either.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:25

No, no, if I oh just that would be one of my conclusion questions anyway. Um, but you know, family court, wow, what an absolute joke and waste of time and waste of money that was. Um I'll get absolutely nowhere in three years, but I thought family court was the place with that was gonna sort it all out. Just made it ten times worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:44

Have you ever had anyone like um going through family courts without DVO?

SPEAKER_04 1:46:48

Because is I don't think I've had because do you think that would play a different like if we were to start now, would it be different?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:58

Well, I think it would be less yeah, it would be. It would be less stressful, and because you know, DV plays a big part. Because I feel like they've got more, you know, like more and that's why they use it. It's a tactical advantage. It's uh, you know, law firms, there's law firms out there that as soon as the X will go, they go put a D on them. Uh we know they put leverage, yeah. You get more leverage. Yeah. And you know, law firms even held accountable. And I know I know there's five law firms on the Gold Coast that do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:26

Yeah, we know a few, man. Like even I I actually know a guy like just recently too, like, you know, straight away, you know, oh the the lawyer goes to the to the um to the ex-missus, oh maybe you should put a DVO on him.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:41

They had a really good amicable breakup, she moved on, he moved on, they were doing their property settlement, they had a few properties together, and then her lawyer told her, put a DVO on him.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:52

Yeah, and there's this thing called like a I think it's called an uplift, so you're entitled to more of the property pool. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? So much government incentive, all these incentives to um get more, so why not?

SPEAKER_04 1:48:04

Yeah, that's like his ex was getting hardship payments all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:08

All the time, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:08

She was living there without paying the mortgage for 12 months.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:11

Do we know have you do we know any males that have ever got these hardship payments?

SPEAKER_04 1:48:15

No. So $5,000 that they get with the DBA, do they get another $5,000 when they do a breach?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:23

Uh I don't know. Um the So I just had my guest on um from DV Connect. So D V Connect is the hotline you call, mate. So I had to protect my guest's identity and uh alter her voice. Wait till you hear what she has to say. And yeah, and so they are trained, um, so they have to take everything on hearsay. So it doesn't matter if how crazy there's a helicopter up here and thing, they just they can't question it. Yeah, yep, you're in danger. And um, no evidence. And you get this the victims of victims of assist or victims of queens, and VOQ. Um, you know, you can just write a letter saying I was sexually abused, no evidence, $15,000. And there's she said there's this one lady that did it, and she said, We know that they're lying, but they're bounded by their policy legislature, they can't question it.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:12

I think when a male gets found non-guilty, they should have to pay back.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:17

And that's what I'm doing. And that's what stopped doing it.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:19

She said there was this one lady that did it, so she put in uh five sexual assault claims against five different males' names. She got nearly a hundred grand that year. And on the application form, it like when you submit it, it it asks for your bank detail. So it's all done in one form at the at the start. Blah blah blah, bank detail submit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:40

So it will Benson had to do a gig and he needed a blue card, but he couldn't get a blue card because he had the TBO.

unknown 1:49:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:48

Yeah, and that's even when the DBO finished, he reapplied and they were like, You've had a DBO.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:53

Yeah, it's I know, I mean.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:54

And then I can't foster children because he's had the DBO.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:58

And it especially when you try to

SPEAKER_04 1:50:00

they they make you explain your stories like I don't know where to start because my story is like I think explain it to one person and then they're like okay you have to re-tell the story to this person.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:11

Yeah yeah you know like I can understand if if we separated and I got a DVO straight after that you know but this is like you know separated a year later after she assault someone someone and I get a DVO it just doesn't add up man and then I just I don't know how they can't see that.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:35

I know right it's um it's it you know what's interesting is when it happens to cops that's when cops smash me it's like mate this has happened to me it's like oh now you know you know they'll go mate to put a DVO on me and they got stood down from their job and weapons and so you know maybe have a look with inside your system and change the system you know yeah I'd a ex-cop too at the uh men's behavior oh did you yeah yeah yeah he's like man that used to be me back in the day giving giving out DVs well yeah you know now you no no I'm here at men's behavior yeah but you know I mean like I but I couldn't like I couldn't be a cop knowing that just because I got morals I'm like man we just I just destroyed this father's life and and this is what I mean like like you know like you know like I I'm sure there's like good cops out there but like I just feel like man like you you've sworn into this job that you're doing and and like you're you know like even though you're agreeing but like I feel like they're not helping like I don't know I I guess I'm just scarred from it you know so am I man yeah I'm treating them all like it's a corrupt you know organization yeah like whether they're they're nice or not like yeah like that's separate you know like I'm sure they're nice guys but you're in this corrupt organization yeah like even when Benson went for his men's behavior course he went to every single one and then he had the final meeting and a lady straight away he was like explain your abusive behavior and he was like what do you mean like I'm not abusive and then he wouldn't answer it and so she's like that's it you're not getting a certificate what yeah but do you did you have a lady the whole way through like the same same one yeah I think she was like the main lady so I got him to email and say I want to do it with the mail and then I went in with him and we I can't even remember how much I pay for mine. Can you remember how much you paid for mine? Was it like two grand no yours is free. Yours is through um relationship no Australia something Australia. Yeah I think I paid because I wanted to just get it done as and I did the fast track course where like instead of going once everything I just asked to go like back bang do it out as fast as I could. But yeah I remember paying I can't remember how much I paid for it.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:55

But the third time as well when you're gonna have the mediation they were advised to pay for a private mediator and it was going to be like three thousand dollars. And we're just like no we're not doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:06

And then she wrote an affidavit and said he can afford it he's doing this he's doing that he's playing here like he can do it but we're just like there's no point yeah man comediate with you and get supervised visits like no looking back now like they tell you to do all this stuff like they already know like the the outcome and they just yeah I know stringing you they just make you jump over the hurdles anyway oh man alright before I hit my conclusion questions I want to make sure this is your guys' time your guys' story have you missed anything I will probably walk away and be like you should have mentioned this you'll go home tonight you'll set the ceiling it happens to my guests uh also uh something that you mentioned before when you go into that for David's um I acknowledge that and I thank you because you know I've had some fathers come down and they say man I nearly turned around um and not come because you know one that to read all the old history and it it's we nearly broke up last week because I was rereading it I was like yes and I get it and I appreciate because this when I did my beside I couldn't even read half it I'd I just said it was pretty fresh from court I could remember it's about you know I read in some of those allegations I was like man no I just couldn't do it so even in her affidavit she had screenshots of my Facebook and was like my friend sent it to me like no you're still gimme um I have people I have father's messaged me um and photos of me and my podcast have been submitted at trial oh wow me in my judge outfit and stuff like that yeah bro so shout out to you guys um but um well if we can't think of anything else I'll jump to my conclusion questions you know what the last question is I no okay I'll give you I know you know what I've I've watched every single podcast I know so the I'll ask you as well always ask if uh my my guest brings their partner on the father the conclusion questions are tailored towards fathers but I always get get my their partner just a chip in anything that they might want to add. So the first one is any advice for fathers knowing what you know now would you have changed anything during the court process um any advice? Yeah so yeah if any advice for fathers knowing what you know now would you have changed anything during the court process?

SPEAKER_01 1:55:37

I think my main one is definitely the DVO like I think that plays you know like if if if you get a if you get a DVO I fucking fight it like I man doesn't matter how much you have to spend because I'd rather spend this much you know obviously if if you know like you know you genuinely you know like didn't do any of the um you fight it because in the long run you're gonna spend more money like trying to fight all the allegations uh all the all the um the breach and stuff like that and you got five years man like they they got five years to fuck around with you yeah yeah you know I mean so I'd rather yeah fight it man and and and don't don't be fooled by that third you know the um what's that third one you know how you plead guilty you put plead not guilty yeah man be careful with that one yeah like don't fall for that shit I agree mate yeah because that's five years minimum yeah even if you're coughing you're five years if you get four the remote too that's five years um I think my biggest advice would be just don't do it if you go if you have to do it self-acting oh yeah yeah I agree that's one of my I'd self-rep.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:51

I don't know how to do it never done it I'm sure it's a lot of work never done it until the third time and I was like we should have done this from the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:57

I'm sure well how what what was the work like that? I'm sure there was a lot of it that's what I mean like I I can't tell anyone to do what I haven't done but you know I say I would have self-rep but I mean I've haven't done it so I can't imagine what you gotta mostly writing the response to the emails like writing it 10 times and be like I guess in this and then you get uploading the portal? Yeah and that's been a certain font and all that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:21

Yeah and we had to go to the courthouse and have the JB sign but it was worth it and then like the third time dealing with her lawyer myself like so much better.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:33

Yeah if you need if you need someone to represent I'm retired. Seriously man you I'm ready to go again if you need it but no I'm retired she's always on point like she like she's just quick she's got everything man every time I get this email of allegations bang like she's you know she's like I told him before she would email like I bet you she emails this this week or we told his youngest we're having a birthday party on a Saturday we were actually doing on the Sunday she sabotaged and didn't bring on the on the Saturday yeah but we had it for the Sunday well played yeah well played and then and then she saw she was like waiting by the venue like she knew yeah that's right yeah because my brother saw her standing out there um question number two how do we change the system how do you think we can change the system man I think like like I said earlier on like just the the whole like if if someone puts in the complaint like you know like for DVO like I think they they need to be someone you know like employ someone like if they got all this money to spend like five grand like employ someone to actually sit down there and go and analyze it you know like okay this is this category like you know and this is this okay this is fucking serious like yeah cops need to go and fucking bash the door down or whatever I'm just saying yeah yeah yeah you know yeah yeah I don't know like yeah where to start there's so much to change like it's yeah I think the main thing also is like having them be accountable yeah 100% because that's what we'll say but when they breach the family coordinates like there's no repercussions for the females if a male like if you were to cancel three times then she can stop visits. If she stops three times there's nothing yeah and and and this whole like I said again the the whole um thing about the um best interest of the kids and the transition like they're all full of shit like you're you're the one that's taking my my kids away yeah and then now you're trying to say oh you should you should visit them here because of the transition like you're you're fucking you're you're fucking them up like you're with all this you know like now my daughters are you know I have to see them here they and they're asking me why I have to visit them here like yeah you know because it's transition yeah yeah it's heartbreaking that stuff man like yeah and this is where it pisses me up like all the other stuff is is like man I don't mind fighting but like when when they're using kids you know like and that's why I stopped though like it it's because I know like uh this whole fighting war thing it is like it is messing my girls up yeah the emotional manipulation was starting I can see in their eyes like it's it's messing them up yeah you know and and what what you know like you know like I said you know when that that broke me when when my daughter said to me you know like oh why don't why don't you see you here you know like and that was one time like as young as she used to want to come all the time and then there was one time she was like no I don't want to come spend time with you mum and my sister doing the Christmas drink going shopping. Oh yeah it started yeah yeah and we were already there waiting yeah you know like there's so many times just before like I think we had to see them at nine o'clock something you know we'll get a like five minutes before we'll get a email or text or whatever oh we we can't come or too sick or all these bullshit excuses.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:01

Yeah it's got range and like we would buy them g Christmas presents and then we found out she'll throw them away. Yeah yeah man or we'll buy his youngest like a new outfit and let her take it home so she could wear it and then we'll come back in her bag dirty.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:17

Always just uh evil petty spitefulness it is man I know all right it's a funny question you're on death row the guard comes and asks you what you want for your final meal drink and dessert what's your last something nowhere would go though oh Malaysian you would have to Malaysian food what what what what's uh aquidel rotty rotty that's bread yeah rotty bread yeah uh kind of it's like a nine bread button yeah yeah rotty yeah yeah I don't know man the um the high nine chicken rice oh yeah that sounds good that's good what about what do you wash it down with lochi with watermelon oh yeah what about dessert you have a sweet tooth I've had a lot of people on that they not have a sweet tooth I don't get it what's your sweet the Malaysian dessert is so weird there's like corn in it nuts in it these chili things was like a trifle type thing not really trifle it's like it's like crushed iced with like beans and corn and really oh it's good man it's weird it's weird I'll take it there one then what about you um probably like a chicken curry yeah like chicken curry and then wash it down tequila oh tequila yeah and then yochie yeah oh yoch yeah but here's a question though that's right would you go to Yochi if there was no toppings no one's gonna probably not like I'm not really an ice cream yogurt fan it's just the toppings toppings right toppings is what makes Yochi yeah yeah I'm the same if you're in a room with every single person you'd met or interacted with on this journey who's the first person you'd be drawn to and why man I'll be drawn first person probably the instigator man the clown you really want to do dude is like you're just dragging you know like because if it wasn't for that I don't think all these other uh people in that room that I've uh interact with would have been involved would be involved yeah so I agree man like you know I mean like there's really no need to unless if it's serious like it you know that like yeah there's the truth the series and the and and the and the bullshit like you know I mean it's only lawyers that went in the end right oh yeah bro what about you if there's if you're in a room with every single person you met or interacted with on this journey who was the first person you'd be drawn to just to say what the fuck stop it yeah yeah sometimes I wonder if if they know like they they you know the kids are affected like or or or or do they just we thought over time like she would yeah get over it and move on but she just got worse especially that time when when I when I said we we we recorded her and she apologized we're like and that was only sorry sorry and that was only because my daughter got sick right and she's like oh you know like we we we you know we we shouldn't do this you know we need to be there for our for our daughters I'm like yeah you're right you know and then yeah lucky enough Colette recorded the conversation she's like oh you know this whole DV is you know like it wasn't me you know I didn't want to do it but they told me to do it like okay like I thought cool you know like let's move forward let let's be you know amicable like we we can do it like I've I'm doing this with my son's mom like we can do it yeah you know like there's no you know like I've moved on like you've seen like I've moved on like it's been a year like yeah but no man it it got worse yeah it got worse yeah it's a million dollar question hey like why why what why is the petty spitefulness overriding everything else um the last one what is it any message for your children take your time bro you want me to start with you first way I wouldn't go first because I know you'll make me cry but um just take your time this is no rush this is your guys episode Um I just want them to know they have an animating Ad and I can't talk I just want them to know that I I didn't stop fighting like I I and I I will keep going I will keep fighting for them but I know like their mental health i is affect it's affecting them and you know and um yeah like I said man like I'm I'm I'll go all the way like yeah all the way like but it's just it's affecting them and and you know like the more we fight the more it's affecting them.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:13

And I'm I'm so glad I did this because like like I said one day they're gonna know the truth and I've got all the evidence all you know on my phone on my you know I've got a big case full of big case at home you know with all the hard copies and you know like when they're ready you know it's it's there you know it's there and and they know that you know I I didn't abandon them like I I I didn't you know um yeah um I would message for your first uh your first son and and maybe your and your guy's son that so they can look back and talk superstars for him oh shout out to my son my eldest one Jake he wouldn't mind me yeah you you can say his name yeah that's fine yeah he's he's the bomb man like he's um and don't forget we got two gorgeous boys too from her side you know and a little little superstar dancer yeah yeah it's a shame that they're missing out on seeing him and like they're obviously very musical as well like his oldest does drumming and they want to sing and dance they can sing too yeah they can sing the dance you know they're missing out on a good mentor yeah yeah like you know like we I don't know if you know like I I play in a band yeah yeah with with my two two nephews and and my youngest son and and my oldest son he like he he's quite talented too like when he was young he used to perform with me like obviously now he's grown up he's got a girlfriend and shout out to his girlfriend um yeah man so uh yeah it could be like uh the Jackson 5 or something yeah like my two girls they're they're quite talented you know like I've got I'll show you later like I've got videos of them singing and stuff like that and yeah bro um now I send you wearing mine when I showed at South Bang I think you're performing uh I think you television yourself yeah appreciate that yeah thank you man appreciate that oh thanks for the shirt too no don't be setting it back every time I actually bought it for it did you oh beautiful oh there didn't even wear it I love that one is that the fearless father that's the fearless father that's spotted on the back of that couple yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah everyone's asking for to reprint that one um how are we feeling hopefully it's um what I like to think is you know when my guests leave you know they feel like it's um you know I've told my chapter it's done how do you feel I think I I I feel good now like like like yeah you know like I said I've been silent for for so long built up got my build up you know people you know especially like in the beginning when people come up to me like you know like with the whole you know oh you left your wife for another woman you know now they know I didn't um or you you're not posting photos of your girls you know why are you only posting photos of your son now you know why I don't have to you know no if you want you know if you want a story just jump on um Broken Fathers podcast yeah yeah well guys if that's it I'd like to thank you both on behalf of the Broken Fathers podcast all my viewers and listeners I'd like to thank you both for coming down taking time out of your day and your schedule for sharing your story I've no doubt it's going to connect and help with other fathers yeah then also partners um yeah part there'll be partners out there right now dating a broken father you know yeah and I'm sure you know I'm sure you won't mind me saying but you know dating a broken father isn't easy you know it's uh you would have taken now we can move on yeah and you would have absorbed a lot of his energy and you know trauma and she's been amazing babe yeah shout out to you for sticking by yeah yeah you know and yeah like you just gotta stay positive man like I like I've I've been in that dark hole too you know because because there's times where you're gonna feel like like you you like your your your hands are tired and and you know like you know of course you know like and I can understand like some of these guys you know like they get labeled you know when when they get aggressive because you know it's just like a fucking chihuahua you know like if the more you kick uh freaking chihuahua like it's gonna bite eventually you know what I mean so I can see where some of these guys you know like they they're gonna get fired up because because the kids are involved and I I bet you if you know like a couple split up but they get to see the kids man there'll be no issue. Yeah you know the guys are happy to move on and you know just have the kids and do their own thing you know but it's because of all this bullshit that the the dad you know of course the dad's gonna be protective too you know just like the mums you know I'm not saying it's it's just you know one sided I'm sure there's both sided but you know like there's a reason why why the guys are you know like yeah that I always say there's well I know there's some shit followers out there you know that's not what the podcast is about there's good ones you know um so but yeah we shouldn't be painted with the same brush you know yeah exactly yeah just because there's some bad apples out there doesn't mean you just go right your shit your shit your shit yeah yeah so so but yeah man just stay positive like you know there's yeah stay positive well hopefully you guys feel a bit better after this and um you know I appreciate you guys support and um I wish you guys nothing but the best maybe now I'll I'll support you 200% if you need entertainment for anything bro 100% but it's no obligation bro like we'll come and oh yeah superstar like yeah bring him bring him down suit him up or any charity work for you know whatever you need like seriously hit us up thank you bro any entertainment bro we're we're with the

SPEAKER_01 2:12:00

Appreciate it. Thank you. Honestly. Alright. Yeah. We'll bring the party on and Yeah, done.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:04

Yeah. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:06

You just bring the venue. Sorry. In the crowd. Oh, we'll we'll wrap it up there. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:11

Sweet, thank you. No, we're good.