The Craig Veltri Interview - Barbara Cloyd

Barbara Cloyd (www.barbaracloyd.com), Nashville hit songwriter and long time host of The Bluebird Cafe's Open Music, joins Craig to talk about her time at The Bluebird Cafe and the art of songwriting.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Well, it's that time again. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for the interview with Greg Belcher. Thank you, Megan Pennington, and welcome to the interview. I have played on several of her writers' rounds at the long since demolished Blue Room in Nashville between 2016 and 2017. However, until this past month, I had yet to set foot in the room and on the stage where she has hosted the Monday Open Mike for over 40 years. The Bluebird Cafe. I've heard the Bluebird referred to as Ellis Island for Music Row and for aspiring writers. Though the room can only seat 70 people, the Bluebird Cafe has been the launching pad for many of the most successful writers on Music Row. It's where Garth Brooks not only heard the dance for the first time, but where he landed his first deal with Capitol Records. Fast forward to the 21st century, the Bluebird Cafe is also where 14-year-old Taylor Swift was discovered by Scott Pruschetta of Big Machine Records. So you might understand now why it took me nearly 10 years to clear the online sign-up process for the Bluebird Cafe open mic. So many people want to get in for their shot at being discovered, or merely to say, I played the Bluebird. When our guest is not hosting in this legendary venue, the St. Louis native serves as a songwriting consultant and teacher. Having had the chart success herself, namely 1993's I Guess You Had to Be There, a top 20 hit for Lori Morgan. Her precise insight into the crap is worth a follow on social media and considering booking a seat at one of her many workshops. Recording in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and calling in from Nashville, Tennessee. Here she is, Barbara Cloyd. Barbara, welcome to the interview.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Now, you your background initially is in theater. You have a degree in theater from the University of Iowa, Iowa, excuse me, and many people have asked me why I never went into acting, even though I seem to have the gift of gab and a natural ham. Well, the honest answer I give them is that music actually pays better. And that's a lot of the reason you got into it. So is that to say that your writing began in college?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I think my writing began in high school, but it didn't, it wasn't anything I took seriously. You know, um, I was into musical theater and and I I know I wrote my first couple songs in high school, but they just kind of popped out one day. And then um during college I started writing a little more, but still it was just from inspiration. And then I heard about Nashville and the songwriting scene here, and that sounded good, so I knew I didn't want to be in St. Louis anymore, so I just kind of picked up and sold everything that wouldn't fit in my Ford Granada and uh moved to Nashville.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Oh, there's a model I haven't I hadn't heard of in quite some time, and probably for good reason. Um but so is that to say that back then you were because Nashville back then, I've often said since Nashville was music city, but it was never specified. But back around when you got there, it was decidedly a country city and a country music scene. Is that to say you were going in there as a country fan and a country writer?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Well, I didn't grow up on country music, I grew up on folk music of the 60s and 70s and all the musical theater records my parents had. But um as I kept listen listening to the radio, I found myself relating more to what I heard on country radio. And um about that time the movie Urban Cowboy came out, yeah. That was sort of the first big wave of slicking up the country sound a little bit so that things weren't quite as twangy, everything was a little bit better in tune, and so um I knew I wanted to do something with my music besides play bars in St. Louis, and I didn't think I was hip enough for LA or tough enough for New York, and Nashville was only a five-hour drive from home. So uh that plus the fact that I liked a lot of what I was hearing on country radio and I'd heard about the songwriting scene there, so that's what prompted the move.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Perhaps a digression, but uh do you uh find do you go back to St. Louis often? Because you did say that you felt like you were immediately at home uh once you hit Nashville, but do you get back to to the Luo at all?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I do. I do. I two of my um well s I have a friend that I met in the third grade, and we've stayed friends all these years, and I've kind of become the extra daughter in her family, so I get back a couple times a year to see them.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

How soon after you got to Nashville did you become linked up with the Bluebird?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

I would say three years.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

And uh that would mark you the the Bluebird had just opened at that time. If nobody's ever been in the audience uh listening right now has ever been to the bluebird, you're I'm sure many of you are thinking that you know it's just it's it's gonna be almost like going into the Ryman or going into some some random bar. It's a strip mall in uh in in South Nashville, Green Hills, which has been made harder to find thanks to new construction in the intervening years next to the building. And however, it is something of a mecca for songwriters, and you were there almost at the start of it. Um I I saw the movie Bluebird uh that uh that came out a a couple years ago in in researching this venue. What I was surprised to hear was it it was called a cafe, so I'm not surprised that it wasn't initially a restaurant. What I was most surprised at is that it was not initially uh like a writer's bar, and you were kind of coming in as it was making that change over. Um what can you uh talk about uh your memories of just those early days of uh the bluebird and that transition, if uh at at whatever point you came into it?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Well, when I first started going to the bluebird, like any place else, you could smoke and people would talk, and uh it really was kind of a hangout for a lot of the musicians and songwriters. Like m most Nashville sessions are like 10, 2, and 6. And so, yeah, 10, 2, and 6. And so then after the um uh people would be done with their session, they would just come into the bluebird. The back door stayed unlocked, and a lot of the guys would park out back and come through the back door, and people like Pat Alger and Vince Gill and Mike Henderson and Ralph Murphy, they would just come down there and hang out. And um, so I had seen uh I had gone to the Sunday Writers night, and one night the ho regular host wasn't there, Gail Terry. And so the next time I saw her, I said, Oh hey, I used to host an open mic in St. Louis, so if you ever need somebody to fill in, I'd be happy to do that. And she said, Oh, well, I'll be gone in September, so if you know you want one of those nights, I go, Yeah, that'd be great. And then when the time came, she said, I gave Amy my notice. I'm not gonna keep doing this, so if you're interested, let her know. And I did, and she came down and checked me out. I think she liked the fact that I could run sound, so she didn't have to pay two people. And then Monday I had a meeting with her, and she told me she had decided to start having two shows a night. And she said she she was at the point then she said I had to ask myself, am I a restaurant that serves that has music, or am I a music club that serves food? And I decided I'm a music club that serves food, and I want to have two shows a night, and I think a couple of those could be for songwriters. Are you interested?

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Having been there that long, maybe not so I'm sure you have right at the tip of your tongue, you know, when I saw so-and-so, everybody in that room knew that it was you know written in the stars that they were going to be one of the people that you couldn't tell the story of the music industry without seeing it, without speaking their name. But can you think of somebody in those 40 years that got on that stage and it was and it was a slow burn. It was it was kind of somebody that developed into that.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Well, that's a good question. Um a lot of writers, you know, the lot of the songwriters that have the hits you've heard of that you haven't heard their name. Kenny Chesney played it several times, and I I didn't think that much of him.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Really?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

You know, yeah, I mean I could see that, you know, he was good, but he just didn't I thought he was kind of vanilla, you know. I didn't I wasn't impressed. I remember there was at that time I was booking one of the early shows, and there was another guy who was booking the rest of them, and I remember him coming up to me and going, That guy with the hat, are you gonna book him on your early show? I'm like, no, you can have him. But I have to say, Kenny Chisney, who he is now, is very different than who he was then, and and um, you know, obviously somebody saw his potential back then, but I just wasn't one of them.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Seems like he just had to take a couple trips to the beach if you if you compare his early, like if you compare Greatest Hits Volume 1 to Greatest Hits Volume 2. A good country artist, a good, you know, somebody who can make a lot of hits for country radio, international superstar uh in the latter half of his build. So that definitely makes sense for his career. Let's talk about your let's talk about your career, because in your in your introduction to your to your open mic, you used the phrase, I got lucky, and uh and Lori Morgan cut one of my songs, and it became uh became a top 20 hit. Of course, I'm talking about uh top 10. I guess according to according to my um uh okay, top ten.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Okay, top top it went to 15 in Billboard and 10 in radio and records, which was also a viable chart at the time. So most people now, when they introduce me, they'll say a number one hit, and I just got tired of correcting them. So it's moved up in the chart since it was on the radio, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Well, uh and I think time in retrospect, just how uh how wistful and sentimental I always I kind of look at that song as kind of uh it was just my imagination running away with me by the temptations and that kind of template, uh, as far as as far as a song is concerned. But you use the word luck. Uh why do you as somebody who understands the craft so much and understands the form of the craft? Um would you concede that the saying that luck is really just uh just preparation and timing with that particular song?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, yeah. But that's timing is a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

I mean, this you could you could How did the hit happen, do you think though?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Um I co-wrote it with a guy named John Robin, and he met a couple, uh Jewel and Barry Coburn, who were new in town, and Barry came to be an artist manager, and Jewel came to start a publishing company, and he hit it off with Jewel, and he did single song agreements with her, and she uh and she liked that one, so she signed it. And one of the writers she had was Angela Cassett, and uh, well, a couple of the artists that Barry ended up managing were um Keith Urban and I'm gonna forget. Anyway, he he managed Keith Urban. Right. And so they were very successful, and uh then and uh Lori had cut something in red, that had been a huge hit for her. And so when they were making her next album, her producer called Jewel Coburn and said, you know, would you send us some of Angela's songs? We love Angela's songs. So she sent them a cassette that had three of Angela's and she stuck ours on the end.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

So and and and obviously they they picked it up and uh and they liked it. What uh having if if you can take the scapel to your own song, what uh is it about uh that song you believe that made it viable to uh record label, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Well, one thing we did that I didn't even really understand that you were supposed to do at the time was we made it really conversational. I remember we saw I kind of explain outlined to John whether I saw the song going, and he liked it. So he started writing it more like a story, and I said, wait a minute, let's just start over and write it like it's a conversation. Her husband walks in the door, what's the first thing she's gonna say? Hello, honey, how was your day? So I think that's one thing that made it work, and then we just I kind of knew before we started how much we were gonna give away at each point, and um then we have this big twist in the bridge that Nashville loves a good twist, so and it and it was very surprising, you weren't expecting it.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

So we're here with Barbara Cloyd on the Craig Veltry Interview, proud member of the Scarfire Media Podcast Network. For more on Scarfire Media, visit our brand new website, Scarfire Radio, excuse me, Scarfiremedia.net. That's the old brand, Scarfiremedia.com. Check out all the great podcasts on the Scarfire Media Podcast Network, Cool Brother Podcast, Emmy Susani's brand new podcast, mommy rockstar coming soon. Thank you for listening to the Craig Belchi interview. Like, share, and subscribe. So fast forward 1998, that's where you mark the beginning of your consulting. Uh I I think anybody who breaks through the wall, everybody's asking for advice, and uh, how did you do it? How'd you do it? You bent, you're at this time, you're still with the bluebird at that point, and and up to this point as well. But uh, my question I'm coming to is you know, when did you just decide, okay, I'm giving good advice, people seem to be succeeding with this advice, let's make a business out of this.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Well, it was about money. I mean, I was I made a I made you know, I was waiting tables and cleaning houses before I had the hit, and then um it was very nice to have some bunch of mailbox money. And I that but then that started dwindling, and then I started hosting a lot of writers' nights around Nashville. I was doing three, four nights a week for a while there, including the Bluebird. And I just wanted to make more money. I didn't want to have to go back to cleaning houses or waiting tables. And there were a couple guys in town that were people were paying them for their advice, and they'd each only had one hit, and I was like, Well, I've had one hit, maybe people will pay me. So I looked up what they were charging, and I charged the same thing, and I made a little brochure, and somebody made a website for me. And Barry Dean was a writer that I'd given some feedback to who found it very helpful, and he when he f he can't he encouraged me to do it, and when he found out I was gonna do it, he went out and registered my website domain for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

So uh well you you you you use the fra the phrase I I I only had uh the one hit. Um it it is difficult, uh, I've I've heard it said to hit to hit to get lightning at lightning in a bottle uh twice. And uh it's not to say that you haven't stopped writing, it's not to say that you're that what you do is invaluable to to a lot to a lot of folks. Um is it is it something that you're that you're actively pursuing? Are you still trying to trying to get anything else in the church or shaking your head now?

SPEAKER_01 16:36

I I don't have the stomach for it. You have to have a really thick skin and you have to have a really fierce work ethic. And I am way too thin-skinned, and I like I don't like to work that hard. I like to get up in the like I I've developed this life where I do what I want when I want, and I like that. And if you're a writer, you've gotta have, you know, you to be a successful professional writer, you have to eat, sleep, live, and breathe songwriting. You know, most people when they start out, they have eight or ten writes a week, and you know, they it it's it's a lifestyle. I and I can say all this in hindsight. You know, this is something that I have come to understand how the process evolved at the time. I was just trying to make some money, and and more people seemed to need advice than there seemed to be a shortage of people who could help songwriters learn and grow, but there was no shortage of songs, so I just leaned into that because I needed to make an income, and you know, over time now I just it's such a different world now, and I just don't um I still love great songs, and every now and then I'll get an idea that's personal to me, and I write it. I still enjoy playing my songs and playing playing them out from time to time, but uh, you know, I'm I'm very happy with what I do.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Well, I I know better than to ask a songwriter what uh their process is in the terms of music or lyrics versus I've found in my writing that it really just depends on how the phrase hits me, how the melody hits me, when it hits me. Um that is to say, it I find it more effective to pin down a writer's method, as in this question. Are you a waiter or a writer? Are you somebody that is diligently writing daily, hourly, whenever something hits you, it's on it's on paper, or are you somebody that's uh kind of waiting for the muse to hit?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Um, if you want to be a pro writer, you can't wait for the muse to hit. Um so for me, uh like now I just wait for the muse to hit because I'm not trying to be a professional writer. When I was, um co-writing is a big thing in Nashville. Almost everybody co-writes.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

And I found that to be very helpful because uh you may not you may not have any inspiration, but you sit with somebody and you start tossing ideas back and forth. Or a lot of times, you know, you get to be friends with your co-writers. You get, you know, as as I heard one writer say, you tell your co-writers things you wouldn't tell your husband, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

So or a therapist.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Or a therapist, you know. So, well, you should tell your therapist. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. I know. I never understood people who lie to their therapist, you know. That didn't ever make sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

But um It's like going to the gym and just reading a magazine.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, there you go. There you go. Setting the pedals on automatic or something. So You can do that. You could do that. It would be a lot easier. You wouldn't sweat as much. Um for me, I'm I'm a very idea-driven person and a lyric and a lyric-driven person. Um, if I write for myself, I can write melodies. When I'm trying to write for the radio, I I always looked for guys that were better musicians than me that could come up with the cool guitar riffs and the really interesting chord voicings and chord progressions and grooves and signature licks and all of that, because that's where I'm really weak. So, you know, it can start from anywhere. You know, sometimes it would be a co-writer coming in talking about what was going on in his life that day, and it's like, oh, what if we what how about this for a hook? You know, and then um sometimes it would just be, you know, you've been playing around with any uh riffs, and they'd just start noodling on guitar and show me some riffs they thought of, and I go, oh, that makes me think of like you've just had a big fight with somebody, but now you're calming down and you're gonna get back together. You know, so sometimes the inspiration would come from the music. A lot of times it would just be an idea, something I wanted to write about, and then I'd find a hook to go with it. Sometimes it would be a hook, something like when I wrote I Guess You Had to Be There, that sounded like a really cool song title. And so I thought, okay, that's a cliche I haven't heard written yet. How can I twist that and make it mean something different? So that didn't come from my heart. I mean, I found the heart of the song as we were writing it, but that was just me playing around with hooks, trying to be crafty and clever. Um, so I don't, you know, it there's all different ways to go about it. But for me, before I start writing, I want to know what is the hook, what is that hook trying to say, what is the message that we're trying to convey? What's the point of the song? And what is the what's the groove? Like what's the

SPEAKER_00 22:00

uh melodic groove tempo you know what's the feel of the music gonna be and if if i have those things two things to start with the rest of it's just patience and work well you do teach a lot of of the basics and and the uh and the building blocks of this i i'll i'll ask a a version of of this question uh later on in the no kitten questionnaire but as far as just getting into to the teaching and and into into the craft of it it's often said that you learn the most from teaching so my question is what have you in teaching and in consulting what have you found most valuable what have you learned from that how long you got I loaded I know but yeah um probably the thing that I talk to people about the most if they're trying to write for Nashville especially is nobody's reading your mind you have all the information you know exactly what you mean by everything you say but that's why everybody likes their own brand basically exactly exactly but all we know is what you put in the lyrics so um you you have to tell enough of the story to make people interested and another thing that is really clear to me especially like I'll I'll get applications for my workshop and you know I everybody sends between three and ten songs so you know I'll I'll have five days where I'm sitting down listening to you know hundreds of songs and anytime somebody can give me a visual picture or some specific details it just pops.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

You know all the generalities all the clever ways you can describe emotion don't hold a candle to tell me what happened you know the the story is is the heart of it and if you can bring it to life with visual pictures and specific details you know if you want me to know how you feel you can tell me how you feel but if you want me to feel what you're feeling tell me what happened.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Do you have a in fact I'll I'll I'll phrase the phrase it this one because I I I have my own my own answers to this question. I've heard some really good ones just and I'm surprised I don't ask this question more often on the program but every single the greatest compliment I believe you can give a songwriter is I wish I wrote that one. So my so my question to you is which one what is one song that you wish you had written a Moments by Emerson Drive.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Well it's it's by Sam and Annie Tate and Dave Berg but it was a hit for Emerson Drive.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

I'm not familiar with the song describe it. Well and what is it about that that made you wish for it it is perfectly written.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

I mean as far as the craftsmanship of the song it doesn't miss a beat it does so all the inner rhymes and all the you know the repeated phrases and all the um visual description and and the way it lays the story out it's you get to know it's about a a homeless guy who is walking out on a bridge no it's about a man who is just lost his relationship he's just in a he's suicidal and he walked out onto a bridge and this homeless man follows him out there and talks to him and talks him out of it. Like a scene out of its wonderful life actually uh yes maybe maybe it's it's just and and the um looking at me now you might not know it but I've had my moments and the the homeless guy is telling him about moments uh tells him about some moments he's had in his life and then the the guy that's was gonna jump is telling him about moments he's had in his life and then at the uh in the bridge the uh the old guy it says like somewhere around the trash can fire tonight I bet he's telling a story one more time I've had my moments like that one night on the E Street Bridge when a young man almost ended it and you know it's it it's it does better than any it does as well as any work of art I have ever ever experienced illustrates the value of every life.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

You know here's this Barb, I think I lost you are you still there?

SPEAKER_01 27:04

That's my kind of song. You know a lot of people will say oh I like up on the roof because it's got a good groove and I can dance to it but I like my my t my preference runs toward the heavy stuff.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Well as far as uh uh I know that any artist uh and anybody who run who runs a business it's not uh if you got something come cooking and uh got stuff going for you it's what and when uh so what's uh what's going what's going on at least for the next year for uh one uh Barbara Cloyd. Well I've got two more um writers rights and two more things publisher we're gonna schedule and um twice a month little free group routine sessions at my house so they can stay in touch with each other and so I can stay in touch with them so I have those scheduled up and um you know other than that I'm you know taking my dog to the dog park and planting flowers in my yard and I'm old you know I'm ready to I'm I'm my I'm this is what I'm gonna be when I grow up you know I'm not I I'm I'm gratefully and joyfully maintaining the life that I have and uh you know well I I I don't I I'm I'm older than uh than I than I look and uh and you do not look that that old if I may say so so it uh so it uh but uh I think we can all aspire to that when we all grow up and we have a nice way of closing here on the Craig Beltry interview it is called the no kitten questionnaire a couple of rapid fire questions first thing that comes to your mind whenever you're ready and away we go childhood celebrity crush uh I guess Paul McCartney Paul McCartney popular one on on this episode what was it what was it about him the mop top the uh the was he in fact was he he in fact an inspiration for you to start writing songs I just like their music you know I just like I was like they got so overhyped and so you know I'm old enough that I saw them on the Ed Sullivan show live and I was ready I I was already rolling my eyes ready to not like them because I thought all the what was your favorite subject in school uh history probably uh did you have a favorite uh topic specifically in history like uh you know an event I had a I had a teacher in the tenth grade I think it was and she was very shrewd and at the time my father was the chairman of the Democratic Township and she was the co-chairman so she had a very pragmatic view of history and she she had a way of showing the motivation behind things.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Like she explained how the alliance between the Catholic Church and the nobles of the day helped build nation states because the church told the peasants that they had to do what the church said or they couldn't go to heaven and then the church said you have to pay allegiance to your lords. So it just that kind of pragmatic like look at it.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Not so much that it happened but why it happened the reality of things. Those are the best teachers and uh more of them more than ever. What occupation other than your own would you like to attempt oh I'm um it it completely can it be like completely impractical ridiculous I could never do it absolutely I love ballet ballet yeah are you a frequent uh viewer of or free somebody who goes to the ballet theater in Nashville do you uh yeah I have I got uh this year is for the first time I got season tickets to the Nashville ballet which is a wonderful company by the way uh did you uh were you did you take ball I mean theater major I would assume that you uh that was a huge component of it yeah I was a terrible dancer I I um there's a there's a brain quality called spatial relations and I I scored very low on that and so I it's not that I couldn't do the steps it's just that I couldn't learn them I couldn't put them together in a sequence that's my problem um yeah it was not it was not my forte but I just I am I'm in awe of like they did a uh I read a um article where they studied what who are the most fit athletes and ballet dancers came out at the top because of uh flexibility strength and endurance I am I've often said that I am the uh the whitest dude that you know more accurately I'm one of the least athletic people and I think you've just put a name to it uh that the spatial relations uh all that to say I can't dance either so uh but uh on the other side of the coin uh what job I don't care how many bags of money have been handed to you Barbara would you never want to attempt and it can be something that you've done already uh yeah I worked on a roach coach you know the one of those little uh uh I guess now they call them food trucks but back then it was back then it was like not actually a food truck today would probably okay be okay this was like way back when they were they were just it was really trashy that was the worst job what did y'all serve other than probably custom oh well um I don't think we actually have any of these sandwiches and chips and things like that but um I would never ever want to be a customer service rep. I've done that I don't recommend it no and then oh also sales I hate sales I can't and people like oh you'd be so good at sales you're so articulate you're so outgoing no I don't want to talk anybody into anything I can't you know I've tried it and I hate it you mentioned the thin skin you definitely can't have that in the well and so so much of what we what we do is real is really salesmanship you know I mean I think you know you can have the best song in the world but I think a lot of the uh people on music row they uh and really any in any business I don't want to single out music row on this they tend to hire people but they like so uh you know you it's and that's where the politics of it all really comes from so oh yeah but uh moving on with the questionnaire what is your go-to food on a road trip pretzels pretzels uh preferred shape preferred texture sourdough just plain brand uh rolled gold tiny twists oh those are good yeah well and they they're especially if I'm tired I can just kind of keep eating them and it helps me stay awake and they don't um you know you you can't really finish a bag of them they're huge you know so like a bag of potato chips is gone in you know a half hour and then you're still tired so well probably not a bag of pretzels for this one but if you could have dinner with anyone dead or alive who would it be?

SPEAKER_01 35:12

I'll say Dolly I'll I'll give you the safe answer and say Dolly pardon.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

I mean she uh you know has been very much a mainstay in Tennessee you've been around have you crossed paths with her no I've never met her uh I would assume she's an in an influence what would uh it just just to have just to say you met her or is it uh more than that oh she's just an amazing human being you know she's just she gives money away she has that you know she she has created great success for herself and she has used that success to do so many good things for people and she speaks out about you know politic she doesn't get super political but you know she'll she'll speak out when it's needed you know she just she's amazing anybody that ever says uh you know celebrities should keep their mouths shut oh yeah please uh please stand in front of Dolly Parton and say that please I'd I'd love I'd love to see the interaction you know I I think if you have a platform you can do with it whatever you want and if you lose fans you know or lose your entire career like the Dipsy Chicks you know uh the the the follow-up record afterwards uh I'm not ready to make nice and all the all those songs still travel and soldier too great great record I wouldn't trade that trade that controversy for that record or or for anything bless them for uh for standing for what they believe in I'm you know I'm I'm teen mains until the day I die so oh yeah yeah yeah yeah uh this might fall into uh to this next question but uh Barbara Cloyd what is your biggest pet peeve um rude people rude people yeah like people that don't put their shopping carts back or people that you know people that are rude to the the uh customer service people or the wait staff you meant you've been or the wait staff or just you know I I mean we all have to share this planet so you know pay attention and you know the fact that somebody is where you want to be doesn't mean that person is in the wrong place.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Normally this is the last question of the questionnaire which is this what is the best advice that anyone has ever given you okay this is my favorite piece of advice I ever got I was at a Nashville Songwriter Association uh workshop and this guy named Roger Sovine was explaining to us how Nashville's like a filtering system and when you come to town everybody's on an equal level because nobody knows you you're an unknown quantity but if you have some talent and you're hanging around and meeting some people you're gonna meet some people that have been there a little longer who know a few more people they're gonna introduce you around you're gonna click with some of them and then you've kind of slipped through the next level of the filter and then that keeps happening and then the holes get smaller as you go down the you know and then eventually you can how do you do it? I mean where do you go? What do you do? What's the process?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

And he said don't worry about it you'll find your way and hope and hopefully it's not all the way down through the sieve basically now this is the uh now that normally is the last question of the questionnaire but because it has been established that you are a teacher I like to give the following bonus question what I like to call the Lonnie Builder Lonnie Billard forgive me sorry memorial question which goes as follows maybe not the best advice that you give your students but what is the most common advice that you find yourself giving your students get involved with the community because if you want to get cuts it's as much about the relationships you build as it is about the songs you write now more than ever. This is the part of the program that I think every guest should enjoy the most we have one more bit of business. It is time for shameless self-promotion obviously you're we know where to find you on Monday nights in Nashville Tennessee where else can we find you?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

How can we find you plug your pluggables Barbara fire away uh you can find me at barbercloyd.com I have a bunch of information for songwriters on there and information about my services and my workshops I have a YouTube channel with uh videos about the songwriting process and uh I am a TikTok star.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Yes you are uh yeah I don't think 5,000 followers quite qualifies as a star but I people do I do run into people and they say oh I love your videos I watch you on TikTok so it has gone to my head but it is worth mentioning and Barbara uh you know I I've I've found your uh found your stuff invaluable I haven't you know I like I said I've only been to the bluebird that one time within the last year but uh you know in starting out and uh getting getting to work with you in that early time that I was in Nashville and uh following your advice on on your website it has been invaluable to me in the years that I've been back and forth to Nashville and I wanted to just take the opportunity to thank you for that alone. And uh well you're welcome and thank thank you for telling me that that's why I did it and thank you again for joining me here today on the Craig Veltry interview my pleasure the Craig Veltry interview where Craig Veltry interviews wonderful people is a production of Scarfire Media the voice of the independent artist written and edited by Craig Veltry your announcer is Megan Pennington the opening theme Shut Up I Love You written by Trenton Chandler and Craig Veltry performed by Craig Veltry produced by Jack Cabin the closing theme Shine On written and performed by Craig Veltry produced by Brian Cole inside the cabin the debut album from Moonshine Vagabonds myself and Mama Meg Megan Pennington will be available only on Bandcamp March 28th. We will be dropping that record on March 28th so if you want to hear the album first you can get the inside track by going to Bandcamp and sending us your human monies to hear all eight tracks including the title track which is already available on streaming we will be releasing the album in full on streaming sites including Spotify including Apple Music including YouTube music including Amazon music and all the major retailers starting on April 4th after our weekend of gigs on April 3rd at high spirits in Virgestown Pennsylvania and April 4th at Antonio's in the Brookline neighborhood of Pittsburgh again the album will be available in full on April 4th but you guys can hear it first March 28th at midnight by visiting our band camp website I will put a link to it in the descriptions for the audio and video version of this podcast. Time now to update the event calendar because you must know where I am at all times. Thursday the 19th Friday the 20th and Saturday the 21st 945 to 145 a Craig Veltry and the Vagabonds will be playing Tinroof in Fayetteville Arkansas not only did the University of Arkansas and their men's basketball team win the SEC championship over the past week they are highly seated in the S NCAA tournament I should say and on top of that on Sunday the school goes on spring break it is going to be a wild weekend so let everybody in that general vicinity know where the party is going to be at 10 Fantville Arkansas Thursday the 19th Friday the 20th and Saturday the 21st from 945 to 145 a.m24th I head for East Nashville and Honeytree Metery for their open mic which I will be a feature act brought to you by Music City Movement because as Leslie Nielsen said there's nothing like a good movement. I'll begin the open mic set at 730 for full dates including Pittsburgh New York City and Myrtle Beach South Carolina visit my website craigvely.bandzical dot com for booking info including full band and this podcast email me at craigveltryofficial at gmail.com you can find the interview on Facebook by searching the craig veltry interview Usually Craig Veltry Music, and you can find me on Instagram, or as my old roommate, the Tommy Thomas used to call it. Instagirl at Craig.veltry. For Barbara Cloyd. I'm Craig Veltry, and this has been the Craig Veltry interview. With that, I'll pass. Shine on.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

I know you shine. Shine on. I know you shine. Shine on. I know you shine. Shine on the