The Craig Veltri Interview: Inside The Cabin Album Release Special

Moonshine Vagabonds, Craig's duo project with Megan Pennington, released their first album, Inside The Cabin, as of the drop of this episode. Craig welcomes Megan and producer Dallas Jack to reflect upon the making of this record.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:03

Well, it's that time again. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for the interview with Greg the Belcher.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Thank you, Megan Pennington. And welcome to the interview. As of the drop of this episode, Inside the Cabin, the debut album from Moonshine Vagabonds, My Duo Project with Megan Pennington, is available now on all streaming. This album is the culmination of five years of friendship, four years of business partnership, two almost simultaneous breakups, and a year of writing and production. I bet you thought I was going to say something about a partridge and a pear tree, but you were wrong. This special edition of the Craig Velcher interview will go deep inside the cabin with myself and the two people essential to the curation of this eight-song collection. Recording in Pittsburgh, I'll first introduce the most frequently recurring guests on this podcast, not merely for the fact she started Scarfire Media and is technically my boss, but a person I'm proud to call my best friend and partner in Moonshine Vagabonds. Calling in from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Megan Pennington. Mama Meg, welcome back to the interview.

SPEAKER_06 1:19

It's so good to be back. And it's so good to be back for something other than the stinky old year-in review.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

By the way, tick, tick, tick, see you again in eight months. Oh, better still, see you again in a couple of weeks for the uh state of the podcast episode uh coming up uh third week of May. And returning to the podcast as a man that I've enjoyed not merely the collaboration between, but simply to be in his company. He appeared on this program back in July to discuss my single Saving Up Dreams. His guidance behind the board on that song not only gained my trust and enthusiasm to want him on Inside the Cabin, but served as a warning shot for what was to come. Calling in from Nashville, Tennessee, founder of Spade Creative and producer of Inside the Cabin, Dallas Jack. Dallas, welcome back to the interview.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

What's up, man? Those are very kind words to say. I'm grateful to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

They were well earned. And as we sit here with uh a week of this song currently on Bandcamp uh exclusively, the rollout just happened as this episode is airing. Uh, I think Megan and I, the most uh most used word that we have had with this album coming out. Megan's used the word hopeful a lot. I've used the word excited. When you listen to this record, Jallas, what word comes to mind uh in in re-listening to this all this time? Because you've listened to it more than us.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

I would probably reiterate excited. Um, I think the thing that I've said the most to people when they've asked me, like, Wait, what are you working on right now? And I've been telling them about this project, was that I it's very rare as a producer that you feel so well equipped by the artist to be able to do your best work. And this was definitely that scenario, which was very rewarding to get to be a part of.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Well, I mean, we I think Megan and I think uh are very like-minded in many different ways. I think we I think to the beat, we almost kind of knew what we were going to be doing when we got to the studio. In fact, we uh in fact, I'll turn the turn to you on this one, uh, Megan. Uh you uh of all of all eight songs, which ones would you say I think uh would you say all of them pretty much uh are the same as you heard in your head as you walked into the studio?

SPEAKER_06 3:41

Um no, actually. There's a few things that ended up becoming better than I had originally anticipated. Um a great example of that would be the song We're through. I kind of wrote that with you. That was the first of the new wave songs we started to uh write after we got into the inside the cabin idea. And uh I didn't really know what I was expecting. I kind of was hearing more of like a like a very like cut from the cloth of like George Jones, like very old 70s kind of like country ballad, and it became more of this like almost this like this this Americana country bluegrass dance around that kind of calls back to like Alison Krause. It's way way larger than I was expecting. While it's it has a much more like simplistic production, it's it it sounds better than what I had originally anticipated. The other one I can say about would be um holding on for someday, because I really didn't know what to expect with that one when you brought me the acoustic version. And it is blossomed. Yeah, and I I just I think that one really blossomed to something that I I like I said, I didn't know what it was gonna be, but it's it's that's the one I've listened to the most on the album.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Me too. In fact, it's the one that I've been getting uh getting the most feedback on. Uh when when you said Dallas, the you kind you kind of had I felt that we kind of had everything fleshed out, but now as we've revealed, we kind of we were kind of just changing stuff on the fly. And there were a lot of songs you know uh we're through, we had you had mentioned that most of the input that you the stuff that you've done uh prior to us coming to you was it was mostly pop stuff, if I remember correctly. And of course you had your time on music row uh as well. Um what would you say was probably uh more well was there a challenge in in the stuff that we were we were bringing to you?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

No, actually, so I I very rarely ever touch pop. Um, so for me, I'm almost entirely rock and country. Okay, so the the music row stuff that I've done has all been.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Your association with one Danny Felt kind of threw me on.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, I refer the pop stuff other places. Yeah, no, it's uh and on top of that too, I would say the compliment to you is beyond just being fleshed out. It's not uh it's not that you guys came in with the ideas already in place because um uh like you were saying, Megan, there were there were a lot of things that I I got in and I was like, all right, let's let's rework this. Let's think about it this way, let's try these things out. But I think it was more so that you guys came in with a solid understanding of things that you had already battle tested. You had taken these songs on the road already, you had worked them, you had seen them with crowds, you saw what people liked, you saw what they disliked. And so when we got into the studio, every one of these songs already sounded killer because you had already gone through the rewrites, you had gone through the process of seeing what do these people like, what do they not like. And you got in, and then it was okay, you gave me your best work. Everything was able to just be easily drop into the drop into the rig and be able to start building out the tracks. But beyond that, then I was able to be like, okay, they're able to give me their time, they're able to give me their best work, that makes it so that I'm able to bring my best work to the table. And but we've been working on this since uh, what was it, early December when we first started on it? And so we took some time with it where we were able to let it simmer and let it kind of let it cook a little bit and let it let it be able to be built into the thing that we were able to create. So I'm very proud of what we did.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

You bring it up, but does does this happen often for you, or is it people often bringing in just the rough draft uh a lot of the time?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Typically, uh producer ends up being very in the uh in the rough draft phase. So uh an artist will come in um and maybe the artist doesn't even play an instrument, they might just be the songwriter, and I might be building the chords with them, and we're kind of building the whole concept together. Um, it's rare that an artist is actually out touring with the song and has done, like what I said, battle tested the song already, gone and taken it to market and really seen what do people actually like, what do they dislike, how does it, how is it received by the crowd? You guys being always on the road the way you guys are, like you were able to get that actual feedback where most artists get that after the song's already released.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

I can't think of any song in my catalog that I've done over the years and anything that I've done in my discography, and forgive me if I'm speaking out of term, Megan. Is there a song that you basically just walked into the studio one day in the middle of a recording session and just said, uh, okay, we're gonna add this song into this uh one as well?

SPEAKER_06 8:35

Yes, actually, and I'm so happy that I finally get to talk about this on the air because I've never been asked this question before. Um, it's not a song that I wrote, actually. It was one that Tyler had written. If you remember Millville Blues, yeah. Um, back when Moonshine Jasmine was a three-piece acoustic band. Here's some deep history for my my journey. This is why Moonshine Jasmine version one actually started to break up. Um, it was me, Tyler, and uh Dan Stoner. And we were in the studio at Very Tight, and uh we were supposed to record one of Dan's songs. I don't remember which one he had lined up, but it was a two-day recording session. The first day we were there, Dan gets a call. He he lived out in Altoona, so that's a two-hour drive from Pittsburgh to give you an idea for those who aren't from the area. Um so he's in Pittsburgh, he has to drive two hours back to Altoona to go deal with the work stuff, and he's all types upset, and he there was already some like unspoken drama happening with the band that I don't want to put on air and make, you know, talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

I know the story, I'll spare yet.

SPEAKER_06 9:39

So right. Um, so he left, and me and Tyler were kind of like, uh, what do we do now? Because we still have room for an extra song. We already paid for the this amount of songs. And he had written Millville Blues and was kind of just playing it and kicking it around, playing it at our shows as filler. And I looked at him, I'm like, I don't we record it. If at the very least, we'll record it. If he comes back, we'll delete it and we won't even use it. Well, Dan was long enough, it was gone literally long enough for us to do everything except for me sitting down with the rhythm guitar because I did the electric rhythm on that track. And when he walked in the studio, he heard the song I was working on, he saw me playing it, he threw a bundle of cash at me, said, Pay whoever you have to pay, I'm leaving. And he quit the band that day. So that's why Millbell Blues got recorded. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

That's a good story. I I'll say this. Uh, having heard Millbell Blues, uh, that's one of those things where the story behind the song is actually better than the song. Sorry, Tyler. We're here with uh Megan Pennington and uh Dallas Jack here on the special edition of the Craig Velly interview, the inside the cabin release episode on Scarfire Media Podcast Network. Check out Scarfiremedia.com, the brand new Scarfiremedia.com. Check out all the great podcasts on the Scarfire Media Podcast Network, the Cool Brother Podcast with Malik Long, Emmy Susani's brand new podcast, mommy rock star coming any day now. And thank you for listening to the Craig Velcher interview. Let's talk about the album proper and uh maybe go by it track by track, maybe drop uh around depending on how the stories are told. And we begin with Inside the Cabin. And I think uh what I love about the song and what I love about what came out on the record, not merely that it is heavy, but it really does split a bit of a difference while still maintaining such a such a heavy edge. Uh I begin by asking this uh to you uh Megan because it was actually a riff that we near that we nearly threw away because I completely missed the mark as far as what she was looking for in a song called Scratching at My Green.

SPEAKER_06 11:53

Oh yeah. Oh my gosh, I forgot about that. Yeah, we were writing a song. What was it? Uh a song with pool references, like dive bar smoky pool references.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

And uh you wanted muddyers, and I wound up with I don't even know what what what we wound up with, but it it's heavy.

SPEAKER_06 12:11

Yeah, I I was looking to try to do something real bluesy because you wanted to do some more bluesy stuff, and I was like, Well, why don't we do something muddy waters really concerned about that? And I remember sitting up at the park in Butler and like I thought for sure that was that was gonna be gone, we're gonna come with something else. Then you turn around, come back with inside the cabin. I'm like, Oh, that's that's what we needed. I like that. So I'm really glad that it was coming to be. And I I think it's funny that that particular song, we ended up writing each other's verses.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Yes, yes. Uh we uh if if you when you listen to the song, if you haven't already, we had uh I had written a verse that the song itself was about one business partner that that went astray, and then after Megan's the the the uh you know the business partners and the romantic partner were one and the same, and uh hers was uh also trying to build his own cabin, let's just call it that. And eventually we just um I had written a verse to my partner. Megan had also wrote it to the partner, and we sang each other's verses, and we realized oh, you know what, we need to be singing the other one because it's uh it needs to be directed uh to the appropriate address. Now we talked uh uh here a second ago, Dallas, about you know, just uh how how we kind of split the difference in sound, and a lot of the reason we decided to go heavy. Well, two words for you die bomb. What made what made you what made you think, okay, this is what that needs?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I mean, we we certainly put a dive bomb in it. That was my fault. That was not my fault. I remember being recalled on that one. You know, you said something to me when we were tracking guitars for that one that I thought was hilarious, which was you, I don't know if you even remember this, Craig, when you said this, but you were like, I want you to play a solo that makes your guitar teacher proud.

SPEAKER_07 14:07

I don't remember saying that.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

And I ended up sending the song once it was finished to my guitar teacher, and I was like, what do you think of this? And what did they say? He was quite proud.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Oh my god, I'm I'm getting a little teary on this one. Well, so we we moved from a from a decidedly rock song on to it wasn't love that definitely has one toe, I think, in Tom Petty and the other in Brooks and Dunn. Um I'll start with you on this one, uh Dallas. Uh, because I remember you asking me, you know, you know, what uh and I remember saying it was kind of a Brooks and Dunn motif, because I think you were having trouble putting your finger on what direction sonically we were going. Is that what you were asking for?

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Uh I think I think with all songs where I start, no matter what, is um, I think I think we've had this conversation. The way I look at things is uh the reason I'm brought into the room is because you guys, you guys value my opinion and you want me to say my opinion. But at the end of the day, you are the actual CEO. And so I want to understand what it is that is your vision, and I don't want to force my vision onto it. Whenever I say that to an artist, I usually have in my head what I think it probably should be. But before I say it, I want to figure out all right, what is it that they think it should be? And let's see if it aligns or if we need to figure out some middle ground kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Let me uh and maybe you answered this already, but uh how how close uh to what you were thinking uh to what we were thinking? Uh, how how how much did that align on this song, maybe in particular, but uh maybe the entire record as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

So when we first started the record, uh I was looking at the old Craig Beltree tracks and I was like, he's wanting to do something that's kind of a little country, maybe some Americana influences, maybe these kinds of things. And then you came in with Inside the Cabin. And I was like, what the heck is this guy doing?

SPEAKER_07 16:18

What event?

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Maybe a lot of people don't know this about me, uh, and for good reason. But the first band that I was ever in was a prog rock band. This was back in like 2006.

SPEAKER_06 16:33

So blew my mind too, Dallas. Don't feel bad.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

So, so you know, the you know, my favorite band's Van Halen, and I, you know, I mean, I'm I've never I don't think I've ever strayed too far from it. The but the stuff that you were listening to, you know, I was going through a divorce and listening to a lot of Lyle Loving, and before that I was in Nashville trying to get on a decidedly country track. Uh, but you know, I I mean, look at this hair. I mean, I gotta rock at some point. So um, but we but we we turn back to uh and before we do move on to a much more country song, but this I do want to say that it wasn't love. This uh Megan and I we finished writing this song, we you know, dug out a couple of songs to finish this, and I think can you if you can remember that day, Megan, that we that we wrote this song. I don't know whose idea it was to say we just gotta do a whole record. Uh I mean d I mean but I do remember somebody said that there's going to be an album off the back of this.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

So you would say actually it wasn't love was the reason that you guys decided to do the record?

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Absolutely. Wow. I'm just trying to assign the credit properly.

SPEAKER_06 17:48

Uh, that was all you. You uh because honestly, I I've said it before on different interviews, and I'll say it again. I would not be able to be sitting on this call doing the things that I'm doing if it weren't for the involvement that you had in my life after everything happened with Tyler. So that was a point in my life where, like, yeah, we were kind of talking about doing some stuff, but like nothing came of it. And like you were actively trying to stay on my ass and make sure that I was doing the good things I needed to be doing to keep my mind in a place where I needed to be it to be to keep going and keep being there for my kids. And not only did you help me with that leaps and bounds, but like your push to do the album, your push to make me, you know, come out of that part of myself. Like I'm very, very thankful and I'm very, very willing to give you all of the credit for this project because this project saved my life. Yet again, here you come being a superhero.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

No. Uh I well, we've said it in interviews already. Uh moving on to uh, because I I really for that song, uh, it wasn't love. I came to you because I I need I needed to sort through the breakup I was going through. And we're through was uh was a return of the favor. The scenario just sounded like a country song, and when I stepped into that uh apartment that you were staying at and said, Well, Megan, it's time for therapy, I I couldn't have imagined, and I would say that you know, I I I try not to have favorites when it comes to my songs. Uh I but you know Biloxi was my favorite and it betrayed me. But I will say that we're through just for the for the story that it told and for what we uh literally shined crap and made and made into and into such a beautiful song. It is the one that I am am the proudest of. And I would just you know, it's been a year since uh everything happened, and it's been a year since that song has been that song has been written. Um I don't really know uh uh how to find a question at at the at the end of this, but listening to that song, uh you're uh you're uh you're to the moment, uh listening it back to you, how do you feel about it? How does it hit you?

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Man, if I make it on my soapbox here a moment. You may it's your network. I'd like yes it is.

SPEAKER_06 20:28

I'd just like to start off by saying, first and foremost, for the listeners out there who have been wondering, who've been trying to keep track of my very strange and long journey, uh, first and foremost, life is pretty damn good these days. And I'm very thankful to be able to say that because of projects like Inside the Cabin, because of Dallas and Craig and a bunch of other really good people in my life. Uh but that song has probably been the largest coming-of-age moment, I think, for myself. It's the best way I could put it. You know, not only did I kind of, you know, I I I allowed myself to heal through the trauma and the the pain of what happened, but as time went on and I I dealt with my own thoughts and I I you know I went through my own therapy and and all that deep thinking you do when you go through big things, uh, it made me realize that like, you know, there there is a level of forgiveness that I can feel from that towards that situation and towards the people involved, but there's also a level of growing and a level of pride that I have in myself because I have always been kind of an overdramatic young lady, and uh I didn't think I'd make it out alive. I know, right? I I didn't think I'd make it out alive, and the fact that I've got a song to show for it, not only a song that's really good, but going back to making our guitar teachers proud, I showed that song to my grandfather, the one who is the direct inspiration for me singing, and I said, Look, Papa, I finally have a country song. And he smiled and he said, It's good. So not only did I make myself Proud by finally putting myself on a country track, but I finally made pup proud. So the little girl in me was healed, the adult in me was healed, and the uh the song nowadays, I do have to laugh a little bit because, like, you know, the co-parenting thing is happening now, so I don't like hate him and not talk to him. So it is kind of funny, like in an ironic sense. Um, but I'm very I'm very proud that I was able to work through that moment in such a beautiful way.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

And hearing all of that, Dallas, and I think we heard uh I gave you versions of this because here's here's the other thing about this record. I think I did uh we I think we stretched uh all of this record out, I think over eight to ten sessions, you and I uh coming out.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

That sounds about right.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Yeah, Megan came in only on one. So I so I had you know, she is a machine, and I long day.

SPEAKER_05 22:54

It was a fun day.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

It was a fun day, it was a long day. Well then you drove back at the night. You drove back that night, right?

SPEAKER_06 23:04

No, I ended up catching a greyhound that night. I drove I rode the bus back, and that wasn't bad, except for the fact that somebody on the some idiot on the bus stole my vape out of my pocket while I was sleeping. I was like, how did I get pickpocket on a greyhound? I was so mad.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

That will be another song, but having just knowing the uh stories that I was that I was explaining and just and just the vibe, uh that song in particular, uh uh there was no other way to do it but to do uh but you know, it's in 3-4, it's a waltz, it's a country song. So um, was it that easy for you? You know, being in I mean, you've got your training in Nashville, so I I would assume that this was you know soft pitch home run for you as far as what as far as what to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah, that was a fun one. Um, and shout out to Wanda Vic on that as well. I think there's something about a steel guitar that's a Dober brings a do that was a oh, that was a Dobra we brought on. Okay. Something about that just it just sings. It just there's something about the the classic country sound. Um, I would say that one is the one that diverts the most from the whole album. And that was interesting in the mixing side too, when I was building that out, because um, for instance, like throughout the whole record, we're we're running rock drums on the whole thing. But then that one, it's like, oh, if we're doing a classic country, we gotta change up the whole package. How do we make it so it's so cohesive with the record? And that was a really fun way because it it there's the the Nashville sound that we go for, but the Nashville sound isn't a rock sound. And so I feel like we started with the Nashville sound as our bassine, but then once it came to the mix, I took the Nashville sound and was then like, all right, let's let's add a little bit of beef to it, let's throw some rock into it a little bit, but not too much, where we aren't diverting, we're doing a variation of it, and that was a really fun element to get to like mess around with with that song.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

To me, the album diverted the most on track four in holding on for a someday, and that was by design. I don't think I've really ever told the story of how I came to start this song, but I was on an elliptical just listening to music and still kind of working through my breakup. And uh I'll be alright without you by journey comes on uh my playlist. Uh and it's the video mix. They did a live video for uh for their music video, and at the end they did a breakup, uh breakdown, excuse me, and it went something like someday, baby, maybe your heart will be mine. And I'm feeling a little bit cynical and rolling my eyes at the notion of someday. But I started writing that I wrote that chorus right there on that elliptical, and I uh did a verse, Megan did another verse, and we kinda we kind of brought it together, and really we stick it in the middle of this record after you know two three really uh strong breakup songs. Uh and uh I think what uh the feedback that I'm feeling from people, not merely the uh blast of harmony, not merely the strong vocal delivery, even me singing alone, it shuts up a noisy bar room, which is which is so cool to do with the song. But uh it's a hopeful track in an otherwise what otherwise would be an album that might have been called, and we joked at Dallas a couple times about changing the name of the album to Mileage and Heartbreak. I turned to Megan on on this one on this one. Um when you when you heard this and you what ultimately was that ultimately why you said, Okay, this is a moonshine dialogue.

SPEAKER_06 26:56

So um well Honestly, like I with Hold On for Someday, I almost told you to throw it out, to be honest, because I liked it, but I didn't really I didn't know if I wanted to put it on the album. Um I've honestly I kind of was geared up for that to be our next project after this. But um once we started to flesh it out, like like I think I remember saying something along the lines to you, like, I don't know if I love it yet, give me a minute. Um I'm glad I gave you a minute.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

You write a verse, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:32

And I'm glad that you ended up, you know, keeping with it because, like I said, it's the one I listened to the most on the album. And if I may call out for a moment, having holding on for someday at that point in the record, because I'm a bit of a a story nerd, I'm a big fan of the wall, for example. I love how we did that because like holding on for someday is like, all right, we're done being sad, now we're gonna go have some fun. And I love that.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

So good job on the order. Yeah, I uh completely unintentional, but I did I did kind of just throw it in there to to kind of you know, again, just break up the breakup songs, and uh then eventually we can start uh start talking about driving and other uh another fun things that that we like to do. But uh this also I think on on the on on this one, I think has the most moving parts to it. It's got a horn section, it's got a good got a guitar solo, it's got those harmonies. Um uh was it more fun? Was it fun or frustrating on on your end, Alice, with this one?

SPEAKER_00 28:32

This was the most challenging mix of the whole record.

SPEAKER_08 28:34

I bet.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Uh not to be nerdy, but it's because of the masking. There's so many different elements that are on top of each other at the same time, and putting them all in their places on the frequency spectrum along with the the panning, putting them in the different areas, the horn section slightly off to the side, those kinds of things, so it's not overlapping across all of them, very difficult. Um, that one definitely took the most time. But I think uh compliments to you on the songwriting side of it too, is I think it this is the key to why you said it shuts up a noisy bar is the nostalgia. And I think there's something about the mix of the melody and the lyricism to it that it makes you kind of sit back in your chair and be like, oh, I remember a different era for a second there. It it takes you back and it's a nostalgia piece in a way that I I truly love.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

So Megan said that this was me driving the record. It was I was I was the muscle on it, but I would say if if I were to listen to to this record, um it it definitely feels to me like a uh later era Brooks and Dunn, where it was plainly obvious to anybody that Ronnie Dunn was the one was the town in the band, was the voice of the band, and the one that everybody was featuring. And beside B on uh on this record is uh Golden Highways, a song that I co-wrote with with C4. Uh Megan, I Megan, I don't think has a gymnastics background. I swear to you, she was about ready to do a backflip when she uh first heard the song. She's getting giddy about it. What do you why do you love this song so much, Megan?

SPEAKER_06 30:10

Because, first of all, this is the first time you get to hear country rock and it's talking about LGBT stuff, and that's amazing. And I love that I get to be part of the the movement for that. When you were like, we're gonna keep that line uh running from his jealous from a jealous man and his wife in the Palestinians. I'm like, yeah, I'm still happy I get to sing that line. It's so silly, but like I love that you don't get you don't get that much representation for that stuff in in the type of music that we make nowadays, so it's awesome. But more importantly, that's the hard roughest song I've ever gotten to sing. And everybody's been telling me free, literally, another piece of history for me. I was 19 in New Jersey at Mad Hands Records, recording free. It's my first time ever in a recording session, and I went to go sing the line. Uh what what is it? I don't I don't remember exactly what line it was because I can never remember what songs go figure. Uh but I did the the grurr on accident. Like real subtle on accident was a mistake. I'm like, oh, I gotta fix this because they were already getting on me trying to make me do the thing over and over because it wasn't always a one-take tracker. I used to take a long time. Um and so when I did that, I saw Mike and Ray kind of sit back and they were like, oh my god, do that again. So flash forward, it's become my whole shtick. But every time I go to try to do something on a song, either the producer does something that doesn't quite like match what I'm doing, or the band that I'm working with isn't quite where I want to be. So like this was finally like I didn't write this song, and I was really upset about wanting to sing us somebody else's song because I've always been kind of a stick in my own butt about that. But I I've eaten both my shoes, both my socks, and my backpack because this song's amazing. Shout out C4. Thank you for letting me sing this. It's so much fun. I just I sing it in the car because it's so much fun.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Uh on the opposite coin, was this the easiest one for you to mix? Uh down.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

I think it was if I was gonna pick uh it was the easiest one. That one just fell together, and it was just like even the instrumentation and production around it was just like, don't overcomplicate it. It just needs to be what it is, and just drop that thing in and get her done.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah. Janice without the habits, and I think this song is uh most emblematic of it. Uh, let's skip ahead to uh Tango Text 2. And I I think the reason that we it finds itself uh while it is a breakup song, and it is I didn't want it to be like in a in a row. Megan is kind of is you is doing the uh come see come sa kind of motion.

SPEAKER_06 32:47

It's not a breakup song if you listen to it. It's a song about adultery and all sorts of bad things, but it's not a true story. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Well, well, you're chasing booze, and I'm rather be happy. Forgive me if I thought that uh where things were going with that one. But uh it's Maggie, I'm doing it my way. Sorry. Exactly. I hate it when you use your lyrics against me. Uh, but uh so my why I threw why I ultimately I think we agreed that it would be uh that it'd be good on the back end of the record is because it is such it is the epitome of I love it when uh beautiful melodies uh tell me horrible things. That's a Tom Waits quote, and it uh it's certainly not a Tom Waits sounding song. It is fun, it is bouncy, and it is just bawdy as as anything as I as I can get. And you've already alluded to uh to some of the subject uh matter of this song. Uh obviously you wanted to tell the story, but ultimately why did you decide on this boogie, shall we say?

SPEAKER_03 33:54

Well, um I was trying to be as petty as possible, frankly.

SPEAKER_06 34:03

I was I was mad. I got done being sad about everything, and I was mad, and uh I didn't want to get myself in any sort of legal trouble, so I wrote a really mean song about it, and I made up a bunch of exaggerated lies within my really mean song because the hope was at that point in time when I was very angry that someday, because originally this was supposed to be a moonshine jasmine song, I was gonna record this with my other band, and I was hoping that the uh defendant, if you will, would hear the hear some version of this song in his own time and kind of be like, oh damn badger. And sure enough, I got mine. That happened. So that's that's what that was for. It was just a feel like a make myself feel better, get the angry feelings out type of song.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

This is the only song uh that uh that I that is Megan Pennington written at words and music by Megan Pennington, and a lot of the reason I wanted it on there because not only did it really kind of fit the motif, it fell into the same timeline of both of our breakups. It is just a fun, fun song to sing and fun song to play. But to bookend the rest of the rest of the record, um, and uh this is uh this is where we uh we have our other uh feature performance. Shout out to Matt Wagner for doing drunks drums throughout the record. But this is where we find my friend uh Luke Sharp of the Goofy Footers, a great band out of Myrtle Beach, who uh pretty uh serendipitously was just in town in Nashville. He's a harmonica player, and we figured that both of these songs they're both about being on the highway. We needed somebody to pull out a harpoon out of their blue bandana, and there he was, brought his mom along too. Um, yeah, and that was one of that was one of the more memorable days, just because not only is he such a warm, consonant musician, but uh, you know, in in mixing him into uh in in into our songs, and we'll talk about the songs themselves in a second and maybe the similarities as well. But just uh I mean, how uh how immediate did we store were we in that booth, Dallas, listening and saying, Yeah, we need a harmonica on this on these two?

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Yeah, it was pretty quick. Harmonica is such an interesting instrument because it takes over a mix, it takes over the whole sound of the song. Um, when a harmonica is going on, it's hard to have other things going on at the same time. You can't really have another lead instrument going on. But I think that was the biggest challenge with that song was it was like, all right, we've got the harmonica in here, this thing sounds great. How do we supplement everything else around it? How do we build out the track around it and make everything else sound correct with it? Because it was like pretty, it was it was pretty early on that we were like, can we get a harmonica? And you texted your buddy, and you're like, I think we can. And the the timing of that was nuts. And shout out to his mom too, she was wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

I'll start with the with the song that ends the record and then talk about the song that really began our songwriting uh partnership. Keep me by the highway was actually going to be a moonshine jasmine song. I was trying to write that song with uh Tyler, the former bass player and her uh now ex-husband. And you know, they I always saw them as kind of uh kind of what Megan and I eventually became. They were they were kind of the the banter in between. They he was kind of the the the comic relief uh during the during the show, and he had a song on the previous record. He liked mer he liked Wayland Jennings, and I kind of thought to my and I immediately I kind of I started thinking, okay, well they're travelers, I'm travelers too. And I I almost the line almost came out in Whalen's voice. Keep me by the hair we and I'll be ready. So and I I had that first verse for a while and uh it was becoming apparent that I wanted Tyler to write it with me, and he had no interest in doing so. So eventually I was just like, Yeah, screw it, I'll keep it in my back pocket. And once his dramatic exit from Moonshine Jasmine happened, I was like, hey Meg, I got the song, I had you in mind for it, and uh I it it is I I have as a on a technical level, I love doing uh holding on for a someday. But of all the songs that we've been doing together, uh keep me by the highway, just just the back and forth, the crowd, it's a it's a great sing along. The crowd seems to love it. Uh and Megan's smiling and nodding, what do you love about the song? Why did you ultimately say yes, let's do this?

SPEAKER_06 38:54

It's so fun. It's like, so like we we're travelers and we've both been traveling in very different avenues for a very long time. And on some of my travel took me to you know, the the deep world of the counterculture. You know, I've been to many hippie festivals, I've been to places that people would would argue is a cult or not, no. So I I've seen that side of the road, and that side of the road has a lot of time where you got nothing better to do but start a fire, get to know the people that you've traveled to the land with, you're making music, the kids are dancing, there's people spinning fire, the hoops are going, the moon's going, we're howling at the moon. Like, like that happens, and like keep me by the highway is like the showered up clean clothes version of living that lifestyle. And I just love that we can take that around the country and get people showering on hippie or not, like we're all but that that's like a bring the community together moment because it's just so catchy that everybody's just like, yeah, let's go, let's take a ride, man. I love it, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

And we and we conclude the the album listing uh where we began, and um we've been sitting on I'm driving for for quite some time, and you know, I've uh we've been playing this thing off and on for about five years. This you know, so long ago at this point, I was I was drinking at the time, and uh so it's a you know and you talk about all the traveling thing. That's kind of what I zeroed in on uh in in that particular writing session uh that you know that we had in common. We were we were we didn't have a name for us yet, but I was already calling myself the vagabond, and we were you know, so eventually we zeroed in, and though you do get co-writing credit credit on that, I think you've actually called me out on stage a couple of times. It's like I didn't write a word of this song.

SPEAKER_06 40:59

And no, I did not, and I'm going to tell your fans exactly how I got over to that song because you came to my house, you came over to the very first installation of Scarfire, sat in my office and said, All right, Paddington's time to write a song. I was like, All right, let's do it. And I watched you, I watched you write, I watched you write as you asked me questions. And then if you asked me questions, you didn't write down what I put down, including the question, hey, give me any city in the world. I said, Can't Ohio, and you looked at me dead in my soul cases and said, Okay, Nashville, Tennessee, it is. So that was the first time I ever got to watch Craig write a song. That was a really cool experience.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

You were in the room, you get credit for it. And by the way, I mean, we're trying to write a song about where dreams go and uh where where the dreamers go. And you go to Canton, Ohio to watch the end of dreams.

SPEAKER_04 41:49

Start with that. You the first thing you said was give me any city in the world, you didn't tell me what we were writing about. So I just said Canton because I was there recently.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Yeah. Oh, by the way, I'll be in Canton uh on uh April 10th. Don't shoot me for uh for saying anything that could be perceived as uh disparaging. But uh just as far as the uh as far as the blend on uh on all the uh uh just as far as blending our our vocals and uh uh on all these uh duets, um we pretty much uh lay we pretty much came in uh well prepared on uh all of the uh all all the mixing of it. Um I don't want you you've already ranked uh the were the worst uh the or the most frustrating or the or the most difficult mixes that you have done. Uh was were our harmonies at any point uh one of the more frustrating things that you had to deal with, or was that ultimately uh ultimately painless?

SPEAKER_00 42:49

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think we ran about three takes on every one of your songs. It was pretty straightforward, and I would just sit in here like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be a breeze. And I mean, I don't think I had to time align a single song. That's a pretty dang flawless.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Explain uh explain to a layman what uh time lining a song.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Uh uh when when you have people that are harmonizing with each other, or even if you're harmonizing with yourself, um, we use certain programs to make it so that you sound perfectly in time, uh, an in-human level of in-time. Um and I don't believe I had to do that on anything on this record. Um, pretty much you guys have just practiced it so many times on the road, battle tested this thing to the point where it was just like, yeah, they got it covered. We're good.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

The songs were battle tested, and uh so were its singers. And you know, now the re now the record's in the can. Now the uh you know there there's nothing really more to just do uh uh just really just to do to do the uh do the exit and uh uh you know uh definitely I was giving three words uh to uh describe the record or your experience of uh producing this record.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

The record or my experience of producing this record. Um this was exciting. This was refreshing, and this was really, really, really fun.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

I think I think we can echo uh uh the sentiments. We'll uh get to the uh shameless promotion thereof of said record in just a moment, but we have a nice way of closing here on the Craig Veltry Interview Dallas. It's called the No Kidden Questionnaire, a couple of rapid fire questions. But since you were back on this show back in July, you get the new and improved. Battle tested, if you will. Craig Veltry No Kidden Questionnaire 2.0. Dallas Jack, what kind of sound or noise do you love?

SPEAKER_00 44:57

What sound or noise do I love? Oh, I've never thought about that. Like of like of all sounds like that.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

And you're around sound all the time.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

I'm around sounds constantly. Um aren't all of us?

SPEAKER_02 45:10

You're you at a m at a micro level.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Oh, just like a sound that you're like, oh, that's just like a it's like a satisfying sound kind of thing. Maybe something like a click of a seatbelt or something like that. For some reason that's coming to mind is something that's just like, oh, it's just like a like a you know, something that just like clicks or something like that. Yeah, something like that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

What sound or noise do you hate?

SPEAKER_00 45:37

What sound or noise do I hate and out-of-tune guitar?

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

There is a reason my Wi-Fi in the studio is literally just called Tune Your Guitar with a smiley face. It reminds the artist when they go, hey, can we get can I get the password for the Wi-Fi? I'm like, Yeah, no problem. What's it? Which one is it? Oh, it's tune your guitar. And then they're like, Oh, I probably should.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

It's passive aggressive and effective. Uh what is the one song that you are not yet tired of playing, singing, or listening to, and it can't be something that you've worked on.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Oh, absolutely. Uh Mariana's Trench's Ever After album. Pick any song on it. I will never get tired of that record or that band. They are my absolute favorite.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

Meg mentioned this a couple of times. I have yet to get around to it. Shame on me, and I'll be rocking it at the gym later, I promise. If reincarnation is real, what animal or organism do you hope to come back as?

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Hope to come back as? Oh. That's a trickier question. I feel like there's some um there's some like teacup poodles out here that are getting really pampered. And it'd be nice to get reincarnated as something that gets pampered. I've seen I've seen enough war in this life that I'm like, yeah, it would be nice to get a break.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Uh I I have so many things I can say to that, all of them wrong. What is your favorite food to make at home?

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Favorite food to make at home.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Uh I have watched this man cook, ladies and gentlemen.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Mm-hmm. That that's a it's a tricky one because I enjoy a lot of dishes. Um I enjoy smoking meats, but I also like if I'm gonna just pick a singular dish that I just love, I'm probably gonna go with a panini. I can make an amazing panini. You do something like a like a pesto spread on a compound butter, and uh, you know, oven roasted ham or something like that, or some turkey. I love I was saying I love smoking meats. Sometimes I like smoke, buy a whole turkey and smoke it and stuff, and then use that in the sandwiches and different things, and um, then the the garlic and uh tomatoes, you roast them together in a little olive oil, and then you do the sandwich in that at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Follow Dallas Jack on all social media if you want to blow up your diet. Check out my recipes. Can I come over?

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Yeah, come over anytime.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Dallas Jack, what is your favorite curse word? Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Ooh, my favorite curse word. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 48:42

You've used several favorite curse words.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

But this is actually lifted directly from uh James Lipton's end end of uh the inside the actor studio questionnaire. He even said uh women, filthy, filthy, filthy men.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

So favorite curse word, Dallas. Hard to pick. I don't I don't know that I can pick, you know. There's there's there's such a plethora of amazing words in the English language, and I'm still learning English at this point. So, you know, I would say I would say the French ones are are more fun.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

I took French for seven years. I I don't I I mean the the the worst I ever got to was Zoutalours, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

You know, whenever they say pardon my French, I've been told that that's not actually French.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

And in action for sure. All right. Uh last question of this questionnaire, Dallas. If you were given the choice between starting life with your current knowledge again at the age of six or ten million dollars, which one would you take?

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Oh, screw the ten million dollars, I'd go back to six.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Screw the ten million. Uh explain.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Um I think money in general is it's some it's something that is is fleeting. Um what you can do with your own knowledge by going back and rebuilding, uh you can make your 10 million a lot quicker, first of all. But then also what you go back with the knowledge of is not just monetary knowledge, it's knowledge of things like, oh, I can get more time with my grandfather. Oh, I know what these things are valuable that are so much more valuable than$10 million. So I'd toss the 10 million and go back to six in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Well, we've done this entire episode, it was one entire bit of what I'm about to overmote upon, but screw it, it's time for shameless self-promotion. Um, Mama Meg, I'll let you take this one. Tell the people about Inside the Cabin.

SPEAKER_06 50:59

Inside the Cabin is now proudly brought to you by Scarfire Records on all streaming platforms and on Bandcamp. Find Inside the Cabin by simply looking up Moonshine Vagabonds, Moonshine Like the Liquor, Vagabonds Like the Traveler. The album is called Inside the Cabin. We've got eight amazing tracks on your favorite streaming platforms. Also, make sure that you get your happy little butts. We got not one, but two album release parties coming out, one for our Pittsburgh fam and one for the people down in Nashville. April 4th, we are at Antonio's. Uh I think you should be here now listening. One literary. Anyway, and then we're gonna be in uh Nashville on April 17th for drifters. Uh that's uh 7-9 in Pittsburgh, 6-9 in Nashville, two nights in the inside the cabin. So listen to the album on your way to the gig and come join us.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

And uh I believe by that point we'll we'll have uh physical media for that as well, Megan.

SPEAKER_06 52:04

I didn't say that. I said we're gonna try.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Well, speaking of physical media and all types of media, uh Spade Creative is uh doing gangbusters, not merely in the recording space with the podcast spades. What's going on over there and where can we find it, Jack?

SPEAKER_00 52:20

Yeah, so I uh I run several companies. Spade Creative is my my baby. That's the one that I love. Uh it's uh basically a multimedia production company right here in Nashville, Tennessee. You can find us at spadecreative.org. Um I do that by day and then software engineering by night. We're about to drop a uh plug-in for producers to make it so that anybody in the world is able to actually have their own drum sampler. Whereas right now they're all very expensive to purchase. We're gonna give it away for free and make it so that bedroom producers alike can all have amazing drum sounds. We're doing that, and then also I have a company called Alignment that does uh physical sponsor software for nonprofits and just makes it so they can keep their donor dollars in the field and do great work. So the way that I look at it is whatever I can do to help people in the world, that's what I want to be doing. And that goes from the artist space all the way to the nonprofit space, whatever it is that we can do.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Well, you're definitely a light, and I think this record is certainly a living endorsement of that. And let me just say to both of you, I'm pretty sure that I could have gotten to a record uh without the two of you, but I'm so proud of this record, and I don't think I would have had nearly as much fun making a record without the two of you. So I'm so grateful that we all came together and made the Can we just all dance in our chairs for a second? We got a record, we got a record, we got a record, yeah!

SPEAKER_06 53:47

It's so good, it's so good too. I'll produce that for a minute. I uh I uh have a couple people that I send the music to when I make it to kind of see where we're at and see if it's worth it. And uh I was in my uh field lesson, I I messaged my friend Ray. Ray, what about this album? It's just so much better than anything I put out before. Like, what what what was I missing? Explain this to me because I don't understand. And uh aside from explaining the nerd nerdy parts about the better mics, better chords and all that, uh it was mentioned that it's for the first time in my career, it's reflecting that I'm finally working with people who are within my wheels. And I would extend that by saying that for the first time in my career I'm working with people who I feel I'm not at that level yet. So I'm finally working with people. Actually, that's a lie, I haven't felt that way since I was 19 when I got to work with Ian Maddie and so the fact that I'm getting to challenge myself, I'm getting to push myself into new avenues, I'm getting to do all these new things, like it's been a long time since I felt like I was on track long before the breakup. So, like, but to the both of you and to everybody involved in this album, I cannot thank you guys enough for bringing old Megan back.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

Well, Megan, I've always said it to anybody who's listening. Uh, I've always believed you're a star, and it's great to see that you believe you're a star again. I'm so proud of you, especially for for this.

SPEAKER_08 55:12

I'm proud of you too.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

Dallas Jack, Megan Pennington, thank you once again for joining me here today on the Craig Velchary Interview.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Thank you for having us, man.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

The Craig Veltry interview, where Craig Veltry interviews wonderful people, is a production of Scarfire Media, the voice of the independent artists, written and edited by Craig Veltry. Your announcer is Megan Pennington. The opening theme, Shut Up I Love You, written by Trenton Chandler and Craig Veltry, performed by Craig Veltry, produced by Jack Gavin. Inside the cabin, as you may have heard a couple of times already, is available now on all streaming. Support Moonshine Vagabonds by downloading direct from Bandcamp.com. Time now to update the event calendar because you must know where I am at all times. Megan 2 on April 3rd. Megan and I will be at Heist Spirits in Burgess Town, Pennsylvania from 6 to 9 p.m. And then the Pittsburgh album release party, April 4th, Antonio's Pizzeria in Brookline from 7 to 9 p.m. And if you are listening in the Nashville area, Megan and I are coming with reinforcements. It's gonna be a full band show at Drifters Tennessee Barbecue in East Nashville on April the 17th, Friday, April the 17th, from 6 to 9 p.m. Central Time for full dates, including Pittsburgh, New York City, Myrtle Beach, and coming soon to Atlanta. Visit my website, Craig Veltry.bandzoogle.com. For booking info, including full band and this podcast, email me at craigveltryofficial at gmail.com. You can find the interview on Facebook by searching the Craig Veltry interview, YouTube at Craig Veltry Music, and you can find me on Instagram, or as my old roommate, the Tommy Thomas used to call it Instagirl at Craig.veltry. For Dallas Jack and Megan Pennington, I'm Craig Veltry, and this has been the Craig Veltry interview. With that I'll pass. Ya ought not done that, you made me and Megan mad. It's the title track off Moonshine Vagabond's debut album, It's Inside the Cabin on the Craig Veltree interview. More proud than ever, a member of the Scarfire Media Podcast.