218. Building a Life You Love with Multiple Income Streams with Lisa Bodenstein

Building multiple income streams as a traveling therapist isn't just a financial strategy; it's how some clinicians make the whole lifestyle actually work. In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sit down with Lisa Bodenstein, a therapist, coach, and clinical supervisor who has been doing this since 2012, long before online therapy was even a thing. Based in Italy, originally from South Africa, trained in the UK, she has figured out how to keep practicing across borders while building a life that genuinely fits her.

Lisa shares how she navigated international licensing across three countries, why having multiple income streams took the financial pressure off her client work, and what it looks like to build offerings that come from real lived experience. From a supervision community to an ADHD book in progress to a creative retreat space in rural Italy, she's a great example of what's possible when you stop waiting for permission to do things differently.

In This Episode, We Explore…

• How Lisa has practiced across South Africa, the UK, and Italy since 2012, and what she learned about navigating licensing along the way.
• Why building multiple income streams gives traveling therapists more flexibility and less pressure around client work.
• Her clinical specialty in womb twin survivors, and how an ultra-specific niche can attract clients without heavy marketing.
• The Brew and Do Supervision Crew, her community for therapists to get accountable and get things done together.
• Her book in progress, You, Me, and This Thing Called ADHD, and how her own ADHD diagnosis shapes how she works and travels.
• Using TrustedHouseSitters as a low-cost way to explore new destinations while keeping a home base.

Connect with Lisa Bodenstein:
https://www.lisabodenstein.online/
https://www.skool.com/brew-and-do-supervision-crew-9236/about
https://forbodymindandsoul.com/
https://wombtwinsurvivor.com/
https://www.instagram.com/forbodymindandsoul/
BnB: https://www.booking.com/hotel/it/sonic-alchemy.it.html?utm_source=copilot.com
Recording studio: https://sonicalchemy.it https://www.lisabodenstein.online/

Are you ready to take the plunge and become a Traveling Therapist? Whether you want to be a full-time digital nomad or just want the flexibility to bring your practice with you while you travel a couple of times a year, the Portable Practice Method will give you the framework to be protected!
➡️ JOIN NOW: www.portablepracticemethod.com/

Connect with me:

• www.instagram.com/thetravelingtherapist_kym
• www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
• www.thetravelingtherapist.com

The Traveling Therapist Podcast is Sponsored by:

Berries: Say goodbye to the burden of mental health notes with automated note and treatment plan creation! www.heyberries.com/therapists

Alma: Alma is on a mission to simplify access to mental health care by focusing first and foremost on supporting clinicians www.helloalma.com/kym

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:02

I'm Kim Tolson and I'm the traveling therapist. It's my passion to teach therapists how to navigate online private practices and multiple income streams so they can travel the world. I'm a digital nomad with a virtual insurance-based private therapy practice and a multi-six-figure coaching business. In this podcast, I will discuss my journey as a digital nomad, I'll chat with other traveling therapists, and help you navigate the complexities of running an online insurance-based practice. I'm so glad to have you with me on this journey. A year from today, what would your dream private practice look like? Would you spend less time chasing claims or only working with clients who value your skill set? What if you had more time for yourself? Alma empowers you to confidently accept insurance backed by an all-in-one EHR that simplifies scheduling, documentation, and day-to-day practice operations. Your dream practice is closer than you think. Learn more about AMA at helloAMA.com. A year from today starts now at helloalma.com. We have Lisa. Is it Bodenstein or Bodenstein? How do you pronounce it, Lisa?

SPEAKER_04 1:27

I usually say Bodenstein.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Bodenstein, okay, okay. I was like, I don't know which way she says it. Anyway, Lisa, welcome to the podcast. So excited to have you here. I always start out with that question: like, how'd you go from being a typical therapist to a traveling therapist?

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Okay, and I'm super excited about this question because it's it's twofold. One is I was on a workaway stint, so I like to do therapy alongside other things. So I was doing a workaway stint and helping out in the veggie garden, listening to various different podcasts on YouTube, and yours rocked up, and I'm like, there's a thing called traveling therapists.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

What? Yeah. What?

SPEAKER_04 2:07

And then I was like, the more I listen to what you're doing, I'm like, that's actually kind of what I do. But I hadn't realized that it has a name or anything. So I was like, oh my gosh. So then I binge watched or binge listened to a lot of your podcasts and stuff, and I was really excited. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm not the only therapist out there who's curious about the world and tries to make it happen with, you know, keeping their practice going.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

So how it started, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

So I thank you for having this podcast because I'm like, oh, it's been really inspiring. The other part of the question is so I did my undergrad in South Africa. They weren't offering the postgrad for dance movement psychotherapy in South Africa. So I had to do it in another country. So I went to the UK to complete it and knew that I wanted to come back to South Africa. But obviously, there were a few hoops to jump. And I think as any traveling therapist knows, there's different things you need to consider, like insurance, and just like, will I be licensed in another country as well? So while I was getting all of that together, I needed to do more hours. So I had finished my training in the UK, went back to South Africa, and found out it was gonna take me at least a year for this process to happen. So I decided I'm gonna take this year to collect some more practice hours, go back to the UK, collect more practice hours, and travel. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Yeah, I went back to the UK and then I decided I'm gonna travel to Central America, South America, and at that time it was like 2012, we just didn't have like as much access to the internet. So I didn't even take my laptop with me. I had one of those phones that all you could do was like send a message or make a call just to let like peeps know that you're safe. Yeah. So then what I'd do is I would travel and then come back, collect more hours, travel, come back and collect more hours with an organization that I was working with prior to going back to South Africa. So they always needed people to come and help out with therapy sessions. So that was amazing how that worked out because it got me to realize that this is a way of operating as a therapist too. Like all the preconceived ideas that I had were kind of like chucked out the window. And I guess my encouragement to other people is that you don't need to fit into the box, or you know, you can figure out a way to do it in a way that works for you and that will also help you to reach the clients that you love working with.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

So wow, that's how you're basically like an original traveling therapist then back to 2012.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Yeah, and it's been amazing how that's evolved, and it's so much easier now to travel and keep your clients with you as you go.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

So you're originally from South Africa, and then you're like, I want to do this dance movement degree, and then so went to the UK, and then it was like, oh gosh, I can't use was it like you couldn't use a degree back in South Africa? So you had to do like additional hours? Is that how it's yeah?

SPEAKER_04 5:13

So with the psychotherapy training in the UK, oh, it's just complicated when it comes to the different like policies. So I was accepted by the health department in South Africa, but I just needed to have more hours, practice hours under my and as these things also take time, sometimes paperwork-wise, to make the application. If I put the application in, then it takes a while for each step to take shape.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Gotcha. I mean, I think that's such a common issue. Like so many, especially like US therapists that are like, well, I want to move to Spain, but I want to see people in Spain. Like, I still want to be able to be in the office with them. It's such a roadblock, like trying to like transfer your license and like even get the same language across different countries. It's like, wow, it's really hard to do. And that's why at least a lot of US therapists they end up just seeing their clients back in the US and like working with the Times Insta because it's so complicated. So it's it's cool to hear you like that you went through it even before technology existed and figured out how to make that whole thing work. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

It's so interesting because back then, also insurance wasn't even like you do online therapy, uh, what? So then um I knew that I could practice with my UK license and insurance in South Africa for three months at a time, but I couldn't really practice in South Africa unless I was doing volunteer work. So, what I ended up also doing to fund that was lecturing at a university. So my introduction basically to therapy was I need to find a job to support me to do the work that I love doing.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yes, totally.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

That's how it started. Purely because I wanted to wait. I'm like, no, I'm not going to get let this stop me. There's ways, and I'm not in a rush, so why don't I travel in between while these things are kind of working out? And now you can do it the other way around. And it kind of made it feel less threatening coming to Italy and saying, okay, I want to stay here for a little bit longer. So how can I become licensed here? And that was so much easier than trying to get licensed in South Africa. Yeah, I was surprised for me under the umbrella of dance movement psychotherapy. Yeah, because they accepted the training from the UK as well. And the problem with the hours and everything was, I guess, also maybe because I was a more established therapist at that point. But yes, so now that gives me the freedom to practice in Italy with clients here as well, and then also still work with online clients who are in the UK.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I see. Okay. And can you see clients in South Africa too, or you just mainly stay with the UK and Italy?

SPEAKER_04 7:59

I have decided to keep it easy for myself. That makes sense. Just focus on UK clients. Yeah. But there's very there are various countries where those things, you know, each country is different. So it's about taking the time to find out what the rules are and also to speak with the client. Like, you need to be aware that I'm working from this country. Is that going to be okay for you? And you've got such wonderful resources around that as well. Like checking in with like, I think I read it on a blog a while back about you know, just having the emergency number in case something's going on for your client that you know where to reach out, all such incredibly valuable information to have. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Absolutely. I think that's the most terrifying thing as a like a remote therapist in general, is just like not knowing where your client is that they're like, by the way, I'm don't want to live anymore or whatever, like, or there's you know, a crisis and you can't help them. I think that's one of the scariest parts. But yeah, yeah, so cool.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Exactly. Because you want to I want to take care of my clients while I'm also living the life that I want to live. So I don't want to be like frivolous about it. But I also don't want to let the policies stop me from making it happen. Not policies, they've been put in place ultimately for protection. So it's just about working with that. And there's such a I was, I think it was a year ago, I was feeling so frustrated about like I don't fit into any boxes right now because I'm still waiting to be licensed here. So then my partner sort of here, because I'm like a I need to understand things with movement. He said, Okay, I'm gonna do an illustration. You just stand where you are and imagine that you're in this box and I'm lifting you up and putting you outside the box. You're not one of those people that fits inside the box, but you can exist outside of the box. Like maybe you just need to forge the path forward. And like until he'd actually given me the physical illustration of that, like I couldn't wrap my head around like not be fitting into the box at that time. So it was such a beautiful illustration, I think, of how we sometimes box ourselves in as well, because of fear of like, am I gonna get it right? Am I gonna do something wrong? Am I gonna get into trouble? I don't know, all these fears that we have. No, I know.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

I mean, it stops so many people. I even have like like a free training on my website, is like, here's all the no's you're probably gonna get, and here's how to like get around them, you know? Because it's like it's so it's just people not everybody's like you and I, I guess, in a lot of ways. They're not just like, well, I'm just gonna figure it out, I'm just gonna make it work because this is what I want to do. I think a lot of people just get stopped, you know. They just say, Well, I guess I can't do it then, and then they just like accept their fate or whatever. So I love that. You're like a great example.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Yeah, and I think that's also what inspired me about you as well. And you know, there's there are other people out there doing it and making it happen. So, you know, it's just about patiently getting through the the things that are we feeling our roadblocks or our actual roadblocks. And I think there's something I came across the other day was like we have these dreams. So let's say there's a therapist out there that's dreaming of doing traveling therapy, like the dream is an invitation, like we can accept the invitation, but we don't have to. It's like there is this option, you can take this option, go for it. Yeah, so uh I just thought that like totally reframed because I have so many dreams, things that I want to do. Like, I want to do them all. I don't have to. There's just invitation. Do you want to try it this way? See if it works. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

And I think once you've done what you've done, like just like worked your way around it to make it like work for the life you want to live. Any robot that comes up, you use that same skill set really to figure out like, okay, how am I gonna get around it this time? Or or a partner that picks you up and puts you outside of the box physically and it gets you stuck outside of yourself or unstuck or whatever. Like, that's so cool. I love that story.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Yeah, it's really good. And I think also part of that is you know, South Africa, you have so many roadblocks when it comes to any kind of thing. It's like, okay, well, there's a workaround. There is always a creative workaround. And the beautiful community, also, I think in South Africa, people are very community like driven or focused. So if I have a problem, I can bring it to someone else. They're like, okay, let's let's work this out. Like the phone call I was having with the lady when I was trying to sort of bring my registration across. She's like, Oh, okay, well, we can't do it this way, but maybe, you know, maybe we could look at it another way. So, and I think that is really helpful to have.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah. Absolutely. So, so to be in Italy right now, you're not seeing clients that are physically in Italy, but you had to get licensed in Italy to be able to see clients back in the UK. Is that how it works? I'm just wondering people licensing. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Yeah. So I think for me, the way I understand it, and I always encourage people to do their own research because they might be with their own, what do you call it, association? So with the ADMP, I can work in Italy, insured for three months at a time with clients from the UK. I see. Online. And then in Italy, I can also I'm licensed and insured to see clients here as well.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Okay, okay, gotcha. But you're just not right now, you're just mainly seeing people back in the UK, or do you see both?

SPEAKER_04 13:10

Yeah, so at the moment I'm not. Very good question, because I want to make sure that I understand like client contracting and the laws in Italy first. I'm very much like, I need to understand it first so that I feel confident. If I don't feel confident, then I'm like sitting in the therapy session thing in the back of my head. Like, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

So it's like can I actually be doing this? Am I getting it done?

SPEAKER_04 13:33

Exactly, exactly. I tend to overkill a little bit, but then at least I know, okay, yeah. And I think also, you know, when you I've never really like moved to another country. Well, okay, have moved to other countries and stayed there for longer, but not thinking, okay, if this is a long-term thing, you know, also kind of being in this beautiful house that we're in that we're currently renovating. So it's like, okay, how much can I also take on if I'm thinking about my own self-care? So, yes, I can continue working with my current clients, but I'm not in a space yet with my own sort of resilience to take on more clients. So it's having that honest question with myself. Okay, I'm okay with this amount of clients and I feel like I'm in a good space for this. When I build more resilience, maybe when I feel more comfortable with the local language, maybe when I've got a bit more confidence around how to navigate life here, then I'll also feel more open to welcoming new clients. And I think that's something that's so important for me, maybe not for other people, but I need to check in with how much can I take on emotionally. Like it's been quite an emotional ride. Like you know, for various factors. So that's also something to just bear in mind. And I think that's why for me, having a second income stream is what takes the financial pressure off me when it comes to working with therapy clients. That's just how I do it.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

I want to talk about that too, but I also want to just touch on you said renovating. So did you guys go to Italy to renovate this place? Like, is that what you're doing? Or you just like happen to love this place and you decided to renovate it? Just like so curious.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Okay, it's a longer story.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

I won't go into too much of it. But um so my partner bought this place because he wanted to, well, he could tell his own story, but he has this place here to create his music studio, Sonic Alchemy. And he went all around Italy looking for the perfect place. And this was the you know how you arrive somewhere and it feels right. Like, yes, this is the space that he wanted to use for the studio. So that's how we ended up here, and then also now renovating parts of it so that people can come here if they want to do songwriting or poetry writing retreat or author's retreat. So we have a BB and then a kind of library room where people can just sit at a desk, get their stuff done, and then if when they're ready, they can come down here and get their recording stuff done. So it's a beautiful creative space that we can use for this, and then also for other retreats. So sometimes we do we plan on doing retreats here too.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Oh my god. You have to give me the link to that too, because I don't think I have that link. I've got some other links that we're gonna talk about, but I want that one too. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Oh my gosh, how cool is that? Um, life is amazing, hard on falling. It's amazing, it's amazing. You can just, I mean, you really just can do anything you want to do. So I want to talk about some of the other stuff that you're doing. You have like a super cool niche that I've never even really heard about. Can we just like talk about that for a second? Like part of your clinical work?

SPEAKER_03 16:40

We can. I want to just say one thing before we go there.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

I think as traveling therapists, sometimes we are in a partnership with someone, sometimes we're not. And I think that makes such a big difference to our capacity or ability to do our work, is like who you're with and are they supportive of your work. So that's also a big piece. Yeah. I just wanted to mention that because that when I first started, I was just on my own doing my own thing. And then when you're like trying to navigate two different people with different sort of travel dreams, it's like it can be interesting to kind of figure out how to move forward.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Like literally, I'll share this. We're going through that right now, me and my partner, because one we just had a grandchild, it's my step-grandchild, but it's his grandson that he's obsessed with, right? So we're like, we're here where the baby is, and we're like, I don't know, we'll ever leave. I'm obsessed with the baby too. So we're like, will we ever actually leave? I don't know. You know, and also he's like an IT, so he has to usually work in the United States. Like he's he can work remote, but it has to be like within in the United States, so it's a little bit more restrictive. So, you know, it's it's so interesting that you even bring that up because it that is a huge thing. Like having a partner, you have to, there's a lot of different things that come up around that. So yeah, thanks to say that.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Because you get to those points, okay. Like, I need to travel for maybe just two weeks, and then you're like, which I am.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Tomorrow I'm going to the Dominican Republic by myself with my mom. My mom's gonna be down there, so I'm going down, he's just gonna stay up here. So, you know, we're making it work, but yeah, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

And that's again, like, you know, if we can make it work for ourselves, but also like in partnerships or with families, I don't know what other people's setups are, but like it's so worth having that conversation with the people you love in your life to try and honor both your dreams and also their dreams. Sometimes I don't always get it right, but you know I agree.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah, it's tough sometimes, it really is. Yeah, I need to do a whole episode on that, I think. But yeah, no, you're you're right. Thanks for saying that. It's like really timely for me too. Okay, so I want to talk about your niche because it's so cool. I mean, we could probably spend an hour just talking about it, but I just I'm just like curious like how you got into it and like a couple of the main points about it, because a lot of people don't know about this particular thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

So it came across like I was part of dance movement psychotherapy is that in our sessions we're kind of spending time looking at the body-mind connection and also movement. So maybe we can't access something that we're struggling with with words, but there are creative ways to work around that or to tend to that either with the body or with creative exploration. So one of the CPD trainings I was doing, so just to kind of like develop my my craft, was to do this training on development from conception through to five years old. And we look at the movement patterns that evolve over time. And I would like to do a shout-out to the people who do the training. I've forgotten what it's called though. But it's with an awesome couple called Tim and Claire. I know their name. A dance of awareness training. So we were spending some time in the in the womb, like I said, on the conception, and then you're moving around in the womb, and then suddenly I had this image of a twin brother in the womb with me. And I was like, suddenly everything made so much sense. And then we passed through the next state. I can't remember what state it was because I was so like excited, like, oh my gosh, this is what I've been searching for my whole life. Now I know why I've never felt like full now. It's like wow, so much made sense to me. Like, and then we went into the next phase, and then I just was overwhelmed with this sense of grief and like couldn't understand what was going on. And I then noticed that I I was alone in the womb space, and it was really like quite intense experience. And this can sometimes happen when we're exploring these developmental movement phases, is that when we go back to those moments, there's different like tags or I don't know, parts of our blueprint that like something's happened here for us. So let's spend time to tend to that moment of our development. They held the space so beautifully and they didn't rush me to go through the next phases. So I just stayed with that. And they can someone can come and sit alongside you if you're going through something that needs some support. So after the training or after the sort of developmental process of the movement had come to completion, you get a chance to share. And I was like, okay, when it came to my turn, so excited and so sad all at the same time, I didn't know what was going on. And I shared my experience, and there was a person opposite the circle who's sitting in a circle, who said, Oh, maybe you're a worm twin survivor. And I was like, Well, well, what is that, and how do you know about that? And and he, amazingly, he was a he, he said, Well, I am a womb twin survivor, and it was after we all shared, so that I was just he's like, Well, we can talk more about it afterwards. So after we all shared, they have some time where people can just stay in this space and talk with each other. Each other more, you know, just so it felt like a really warm way to exit this training. And I I had the opportunity to hug this person who also had a an understanding of this mystery that I was just going through. And the fact that it was also, you know, that I had a sense that it was a twin brother and he was a a male and he had a sense that it was a twin sister. That was such a healing moment to be able to hug somebody who at my moment of discovery knew what it was that I was talking about.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

So incredible. And you know, you have these stout sacross, can't be real. I don't have any evidence. And I think a lot of twin survivors go through that if they've lost their twin really early on. Maybe there's no proof of it in scans yet. Maybe parents or family also don't know. So if anybody's listening and they're also thinking, oh wow, this could be, just take a breath. You're not on your own and you're not crazy. Like this is a thing. And yeah, feel free to reach out if anybody wants to speak more about that. Because it can be quite a like big thing to uncover or discover. And then you go to the internet and you search, like, what is going on? Like, what is a womb from survivor? And at that time there was so little information on the internet, or like hardly any books. There was one book, well, they've more than one book, but at the time I only uncovered one. So, yes, having the chance to first, I was like, okay, I first need to understand what's going on for me and give some time to tend to my own healing journey, which is still ongoing, but there needs to be somebody who says, This is a thing, and there is a therapist out there. If you want support, there is somewhere to go. And I think because it is, I mean, we I say the word niche, niche, niche. I know, I never know what it is.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

I say niche, but niche.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Because it is so small, like I didn't even have to do too much marketing to let people know that I'm out there. It was mostly, you know, I'd written one article, I did one YouTube video about it, and there was one other thing that I did. One article, one YouTube video. Oh, and my website. And because it's so niche, I think it that's what brings people in because they're searching differently for this particular struggle. It's like maybe people used to go to online directories more, and now like online therapy directories, now they're just typing into Google, this is happening to me. I need help. And so the search engine is gonna help them find someone differently. So I think that can really help with just signposting to people like, hey, there's this thing, and I'm out here, and if you need help, it's here. So I haven't kept on top of that really. But and I'll come to this later, it's like with the ADHD coaching that I do, it's like one year, one goal, and this year, my one goal goal is to kind of sort out my marketing piece to try and freshen it up a bit because a lot of my stuff is a bit outdated. So, yes, that is a little bit about that. So attending to the client story, but also thinking about practitioners who also have yeah, it's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

I mean, even for a therapist that might be listening, they're like, Whoa, I wonder if that's what's going on with that one client that has that you know piece, you know, maybe to explore that further. I think it's really interesting. Yeah, so cool.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

It is, and I think the book that I read is by a lady called Alfia Hayten. She's she's no longer with us, but I think the book offers some, and she has some online resources that offer some really helpful things for therapists to follow. But what I would also encourage is don't feel like that is the prescribed step-by-step list that you need to follow. Because one of the things that she speaks about is having to, you know, you need to arrive at the point where you say goodbye to your twin and let go of them so that you can live your life for yourself. And I think that for a lot of people is too much. It's like I've just found out about my twin.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah, like I don't want to say goodbye.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Yeah. So I think if there's a therapist out there working with someone like this, just giving you permission or your client permission to figure out what feels right for them or for you on that journey. Like some people are so ready to do that, and it really is so healing for them, and for others, that just is too much.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah, yeah. That's it's such a good rule of thumb just with grief in general. You know, it's like not everybody's got the same path with that, you know. Exactly. Um, I love that.

unknown 26:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

So and I want to segue because there's so much I want to talk about. I I think that's such an interesting topic, but you're also writing a book, and I want to talk about that. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:44

So tell me. On my journey of working with Wim Twin Survivors, there seemed to be some kind of pattern or correlation with ADHD. So I was then thinking, okay, I also have been diagnosed with ADHD in my twenties, which was I think quite helpful to know. It helped me to understand a lot of things early on. And then later finding out about the Wim Twin Survivor piece also helped me to understand myself better. So I then thought, oh, there's so many well, not so many, but there are a number of clients who then also share that they're struggling with ADHD. So I was like, okay, when I have time, I'm gonna look into that. So I think was it last year or the year before I did a coaching training specifically for ADHD? Totally blew my mind because it reminded me how much my ADHD symptoms, symptoms, characteristics, I don't know, sometimes it's tender stepping around words that we use.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

Yeah, how much of those, the volume of those, had dialed up since I I had uh quite a serious concussion injury. Oh so I was managing my ADHD pretty good until the concussion injury, and I hadn't realized how bad or not bad, how much extra emotional and time constraints, or like no wait, how much extra emotional energy this was taking, and also how much extra time it was taking for me to just get stuff done. So when I did the coaching training, I learned all these things. Okay, this is what I used to do. Like, why don't I remember that? So that's where I started jutting all these things down for myself. And then this year with the one-year-old goal thing, I'm like, oh, okay, I'm just I'm just gonna write this little book for myself. And then a colleague mentioned to me, why don't you share this book wider into the world out there? So now I'm working on this, trying to get it together so that it's readable also for the general public. I think, and what I've called it something, I'm gonna forget, so I'm gonna write it down here. So this is where we're at at the moment, is called You, Me, and this thing called ADHD. And it's about finding your rhythm as an ADHD adult. So I'm gonna read this here. It's a guide for ADHD adults to support their executive functioning and emotional regulation. And I share anecdotes and practical tools and some like information, like neuroscience stuff, and then creative prompts and also some physical exercises that I just do for myself. So I'm like, oh okay, I'm just gonna put each of these into each different chapter. So some of the chapters I'm talking about, like timekeeping or like starting something at the moment. The chapter I'm working on is finishing, and ironically, like we start a task, it can be difficult. Some for some of us that's really easy, but completing the task can be the challenge. So I'm like writing this chapter on completing the task, and I haven't been able to look at my book for four weeks.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Ironically.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Yeah. So I think there's a bit of a parallel process happening there, but that's gonna help feed into the book as well, I think. So as I'm writing it, there's more research that's happening at the same time, and I'm like reliving each struggle that I have, like full volume. So, yes, this is a book that if anybody wants to be on the waiting list for when it comes out, uh let me know. I might create a newsletter for that so people can be involved, and I'll share that on the link. That'd be really cool. So I've got like a little, because as you can tell, I'm up to a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

Like a kind of like an online business card. It's called Lisa Bonenstein.online.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

And on there, I've got the three main things that I'm doing. So there's the Womb Twin Survival work, there's the ADHD stuff where the book will be as well, and then there's also the school stuff with the supervision stuff that we can come to next.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah. You want to talk about that too? Because I I love, I mean, a lot of what we do on this podcast is like multiple income stream or even multiple passion type stuff. Because, like you said, I mean, moving around a lot, trying to figure out regulations and rules, like we can't always depend on just like our client one-to-one income stream to like support us all the time. And then we're like so multi-passion. I mean, at least I am. Like, I could start a new thing every week because I have so many ideas, you know, and it sounds like you do too. It's like it is fucking this and that. And it's just, I think it's fun to let people know everything that that other therapists are up to, just to even say, look, I mean, like you don't have to just see clients one-to-one if you don't want to, or if you've got other like ways you want to put yourself out into the world.

SPEAKER_04 31:35

Exactly, exactly. And I think there's something I was gonna say about the ADHD piece that I've now forgotten. Yes, there's something about like for me, I feel so much more enlivened if I'm moving from place to place. It helps me to stay motivated and on track. Whereas for other people, that just adds to the stress of the rhythm of their day. But somehow for me, it helps me to stay motivated. So that's been an interesting thing. And I think also not everybody is the type of person that can do three different things, or I think it can be confusing for clients as well, and that's why I try to keep them separate. So just the wimp to in survivor got their own website for the womb to and survivor stuff, and then a website for it's called for body, mind, soul, which is kind of the umbrella because it's all about the body, the mind, and the soul for me, how I kind of arrived into this field and also how I my approach in working with people or supporting people, and then there's the the platform of school where we go into the stuff that I was telling you about earlier. Yeah. So maybe I'm gonna ask you to ask me a question so I can Okay, yeah, get you back on track.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Yeah, I totally get it. I'm like, that's it. I'll just start going down this rabbit hole and I'm like, wait, what was I even talking about? I'm gonna tell them what I was talking about. Well, the school thing. So on top of the book and all this other stuff that you're doing and your niche and all of that, you're also like you have if for people that don't know, school is like a plat, like a learning platform, it's like a community learning platform where you could put courses and that sort of thing. And you have a school community and it's around, you want to tell them what it's around.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

So the school community is called at the moment, I'm still settling on a name, but at the moment it's called the brew and do supervision crew. So you come with your cup of tea. I don't have my mug of tea, but you can come with your glass of water, your mug of tea, your cup of coffee, whatever it is. And we sit down and we just get stuff done, whether it's talking about our different income streams, whether it's talking about the struggles that we have in being a practitioner. So I think there's a lot of like we can carry around a lot of shame with us. I don't know why. Like, and we don't want to tell other therapists what we're struggling with, or we don't want to tell other people, like we maybe they want us to have our stuff together. So we kind of feel like we want to have our stuff together, but I'm totally like want to break that wall down. Like, I don't have my stuff together, but I'm here, and it I'm just you know, going forward with each step, and so it's about normalizing that, and it's also about okay, maybe I don't have my stuff together. What are the things that I do want to get together? And let's support each other to say, hey, you can actually do that. I support you, we support each other. So that's what the group is about, and we meet at the moment. There are so my trick is, and this is supporting me with my ADHD to get my to get my admin done as well. Like we meet three times a week Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, which is for an hour. People don't have to come every day, some people come once a month, totally fine. Tuesdays is free if you want more support. There are different packages that you can choose on school. Um, but it's yeah, it's been so good for me to also be accountable to myself and to my practice side of things. Because it's so easy to just like put that on the back burner and then all of a sudden you haven't done your client notes, or you know, I haven't responded to emails. So it's an hour that we can either choose, okay, we want to talk about this piece. Next week we're gonna actually get our what it is that we spoke about last week done. Nice. So we don't just talk about it, but we get it done as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Amazing.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

Yeah, so that's so good. That's what that's about. And I think I created that because that's something that I needed. So I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

You know, I talk I talk about this all the time here. It's like I swear, like every person I talk to that has like something they're putting out into the world, it's because they've been through that same struggle. It's like oh, I have ADD, I'm gonna write a book about how I cope with ADD. You know, it's like, oh, I I I need like a group to help me focus and get stuff done. Let's make a group for it. Like, I love that, you know? So good. My twin thing, the womb twin thing. It's like if that happened to me, now I want to teach other people how to, you know, it's just I think that's the natural evolution. I also think it's like exactly the key to being successful with this stuff, really, is because you know, I mean, you could be like, gosh, you know, I think there's this niche out there that needs to be served, but if you're not passionate about it or if you haven't been through it, or it's not like authentic, like I don't think it's gonna work, you know what I mean? Like we're trying to like maybe monetize or another income stream or that sort of thing. You know, I feel like it's gotta come from that place for it to be real, you know.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

Exactly. I feel the same way. I mean, maybe other people make it work, but I think for me, I need to be connected to what I'm doing for it to make sense to me. And so that's what I I need to do. Other people can do it the other way around. And I'm like, how do you do it? Like, how do you just do it that way?

SPEAKER_01 36:36

I don't have any interest in this whatsoever, but you're selling a course about it. I don't get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:40

Exactly. Exactly. Oh gosh, and then also that that is um I was talking about Wimton Survivors and how there's, you know, at the time when I uncovered it, there was like not a lot of resources out there. So I thought I'm gonna create an online course that people can do, let's say they can't afford to come to therapy, or maybe they're private, they don't actually not ready to talk to anybody about it. They still want to figure it out on their own. So I created this online course, and then some this has just been some things that colleagues or other people have come to me, hey, you created that course. Like, how did you do that? Or, you know, it's just feel like where do I even start? And then through those conversations, realizing, oh, this is something that I can also offer to people. So that's something that I'm gonna put on school as well. If there's a therapist out there that's been dying to create a course about their passion or their specialization, like here's a template to to like break it down step by step so it doesn't feel so overwhelming, you know. Because I think it can be hard if we just like want to get the whole bigger picture together. Okay, here's just like take it one step at a time and it's gonna be fine, and you'll get there. So, yeah, and that's also a course that I'm gonna be following when I create my next course because it's like, oh, this is what I did last time, you know, and you don't have to follow the steps, you do it your own way. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

But it's nice that it's nice to have a framework of somebody that's already done it before, you know. Yeah, even for yourself, it's like SOP is in your business, like standard operating procedures. It's like once I realized I actually needed to document like how I was doing everything, it's like, oh, that makes more sense. Now I can actually go back and like repeat it instead of like trying to reinvent the wheel every time. Exactly, you know?

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Exactly. Oh my gosh, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

We're all learning, right? We're all learning along the way. It's like, how did I do that? I have no idea. Let me do it again. Yeah, no, I totally get it. Yeah, totally get it. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Yeah. And there's this thing, like we I mean, I I the spells word imposter syndrome, but I was listening again to a podcast by I think it was Steve Bartlett. I don't know if you've come across him. He's like this entrepreneur, as like the shark tank in the UK. Oh, yeah. And saying, forgive me if I get the words wrong, but he was saying about how it's actually like growth. I don't think he used the word growth syndrome. I'm not sure, but what I got from it was like it's a growing edge. So every time we feel imposter syndrome, it's actually quite good because we're checking in with ourselves. We don't just arrogantly think we're the expert, yeah. But this is something that we need to grow at. Like today, I was like a super nervous who come to the podcast. So like it's like my growing edge, you know? Like, oh, okay. And and that's how we learn to grow. So sometimes imposter syndrome can be actually a healthy thing. Maybe it's a reframe, you know. Like, okay, I'm feeling like this because it's something somewhere I need to grow. Then when I try it out, I'll build my confidence, and then yeah, I won't feel like as much of an imposter. But I think, yeah, I think there is so much out there as well. There's so much out there that it can be hard to sometimes narrow it down for ourselves as therapists, too. So like which direction do I want to take? You know, and sometimes it's just about going with one thing and seeing where that gets you. Yeah, it's okay to make mistakes as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

And I also feel like people that don't have imposter syndrome are like sociopaths. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't think it's normal to not feel like an imposter, really, in a lot of ways, you know. And if you don't, I think there's something wrong with you, you know, a little bit, you know. I mean, I know there's some people that are like, I've totally got this, but I don't know. I think it's just real normal, really.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

And I think it's healthy for us to have that conversation also and put that out there so other people hear that and okay, I've heard that before. Okay, I'm hearing you again. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Yeah. That's awesome. You're doing so much cool stuff. I want to see your Airbnb too, or your B that you guys are doing. Yes, I think that's all. Yeah. Yeah. So you're gonna be in Italy for a while, or do you have plans to like travel other places or yeah?

SPEAKER_04 40:48

So what we do is well, what we do, I'm saying it like we have a routine down, but we don't yet. But something that I've done in the past as well is so I love pets, but with this traveling lifestyle, it's just not feasible to have pets. So I've been getting I've been doing something called trusted house cities for a while now.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:09

And, you know, if we I keep an eye out on that, and if there's a really cool destination we've not been to, and the pets look amazing, then we're like, okay, let's give that one a try. You know, and that way we get to explore a place, see if this is somewhere we want to come back to, but you also get a chance to take care of pets, which we can't do because we don't have our own pets at the moment. So, like for me, it just feels like a win-win. I'd rather be somewhere taking care of some, you know, some cool animals than in an Airbnb that might, you know, you know, it's also just as awesome. But I quite like this approach.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

You know, you also sometimes get to meet the owners as well, and they can tell you some intel about the local area. So yeah, that's also, you know, if people are wanting to explore, that's a way to kind of slowly dip their toe in the water. Just make sure you choose somewhere that definitely has strong Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yes. Oh my gosh. So I did that one time. Trust, I'll share the story. I I did trusted house hitters one time. I'm allergic to cats and really all pets, so I don't have pets. But I found a trusted house hitters that was like pet free. They just wanted a house here. Because I've always I'm always looking on there because I'm just like that. And it's free, right? I mean, you just go watch somebody's house and you get to go to a cool area. So we got there, and oh my god, the place was so dirty. No, it was so dirty. It was like, and and the air conditioner was broken, and there was like a swarm of like ants in the pantry.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

Like, I was like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

I was like, there's literally no way we can stay here, you know. So that was my one experience with trusted house sitters, just because you know, I'm allergic to so many things. But it's I've heard so many people talk about how awesome that is. I wish I could just like go and do that because I feel like that's just how I would live if I could, you know. Yeah, just go sit to sit to sit. It's awesome. Yeah, yeah. That's my one experience because I was like, well, oh my god, a foul member you don't have to, there's no pets. And I was so excited, but it didn't work out.

SPEAKER_04 43:10

But anyway, that's my yeah, and I think that's you know, that's how I learned. I rocked up something was beautiful, but the the Wi-Fi just wasn't like maybe they had changed a provider, or maybe there was something, I don't know, that had happened. They were really cool about it. They said, okay, they there's another part of the house that you can use.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

That they don't usually open up to their house cities. So they were really adaptable with it. But I just thought, like, if they weren't, like I had the first call I did, I I took from like half a girls. Oh no. Where can I drive where my phone signal is? Um that's so stressful. Yeah. Luckily, that was a supervision or consultation session, one client session. Oh my god. But yeah, so I think that you know, as with anything, like we could rock up, but in Airbnb and have the same issue. So I think it's always like having a a backup plan. But I'm sorry you had that experience.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

No, I don't, I don't. I just thought I'd share that. I don't know why. But yeah, it's just my one thing. But I love that people do that and can't do it. And just like I talked to what I interviewed somebody on here. She's like, Well, I'm in Maui right now for six months in this mansion on the water, watching these like goldfish. I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever heard of. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

And that's again, like there's so many different ways of doing it. Like one thing I was doing was workaways, but there you've got to be really careful about checking, you know, is it gonna match? Like I w I like to do that because I like to be involved with nature and getting stuff done and learning different trades. But then just make sure you do have somewhere confidential where you will have enough signal to continue to do your sessions. But like sometimes you rock up somewhere and it's just not ideal, so you've just got to say, sorry, this is not working, and then find somewhere else. So, yes. So we're in Italy, we also visit uh travel to visit family, but we've got family in different parts of the world, so that is super exciting to be able to go to the UK or go to South Africa or wherever family might be or friends. So, yes. That's the plan.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you so much for taking the time today. Super interesting conversation, inspirational. I'm sure people listening would be like, Oh my gosh, that's amazing. And you'll inspire somebody else, even with that womb twin thing. Like, I I mean I guess I've heard of it, but I never really thought about it much, you know, like how it affects people, but it makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:39

Yeah, and I think with a lot of prenatal stuff, like we we don't always spend time checking in with our clients when we first, you know, do an intake. Like, what do you know if there's any like trauma from your mom's pregnancy with you? So I think that's also worth just being tender around. And when I was doing the ADHD training, they were mentioning like three main causes that the I don't know, these things are always evolving as we find out more. But like it's yeah, it could be genetic, it could be from trauma in pregnancy. But they also spoke about like concussion can onset like something that is really similar to ADHD. But it makes sense if it's to do with the prefrontal cortex.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

But anyway, yeah, we could carry on talking forever. But Kim, thank you so much. I'm so excited to finally meet the person who helped me realize that there's this thing called traveling therapist. I mean, that's so awesome. So thank you so much for having me on here.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Oh my god, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you. Thanks for saving. Thanks for coming today.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Thank you. Yeah, yeah, thank you also for all the amazing resources you have out there. Like, I'm like, oh my gosh, Kim's up to this now.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Like that's cool. That's so helpful. So, yeah, keep kid during tutorial. That's really awesome. That's so nice.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Thank you so much for listening to the Traveling Therapist Podcast. For show note, links, and downloads, head over to the Traveling Therapist.com, where you'll be able to learn more about my journey, the courses I've created for you, and other exciting resources to make your dreams become a reality. If you've enjoyed this episode, please share with your traveling therapist friends, subscribe to the podcast, and if you love this episode, please leave a review.