The Traveling Therapist Podcast
Hi, I'm Kym Tolson, and I'm the traveling therapist. It's my passion to teach therapists how to navigate online private practices and multiple income streams so they can travel the world. I'm a digital nomad. With a virtual insurance based private therapy practice and a multi six figure coaching business. I'm obsessed with entrepreneurship and developing tools that can help therapists live an adventurous lifestyle. In this podcast, I will discuss my journey as a digital nomad. I'll chat with other traveling therapists and help you navigate the complexities of running an online insurance based practice. I'm so glad to have you with me on this journey.
The Traveling Therapist Podcast
230. What Therapists Need to Know About Mandated Reporting with Michelle Burlin
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Figuring out which state's rules apply to your client can feel like a moving target, especially once you're crossing state lines. In this episode of The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sit down with Michelle Burlin, a therapist and attorney who spent months combing through every state and territory's reporting laws so the rest of us don't have to.
She's been practicing for 26 years, mainly in the forensic realm, licensed in Oregon and Alaska. Along the way she went to law school and now runs a forensic private practice where she does risk assessments, expert witness work, and trainings for clinicians. She breaks down what mandated reporting actually requires state by state, what changes when you're doing telehealth across state lines, and why she says to always err on the side of caution.
In This Episode, We Explore…
- Why treating sex addiction is its own specialty, separate from other addictions.
- The three categories that show up again and again across state reporting laws.
- What "reasonable cause" actually means when you're the one deciding to report.
- Why the client's location, not yours, determines which state's rules apply.
- How age of consent differences between states complicate telehealth mandated reporting.
Connect with Michelle Burlin:
Website: https://veritasconsultingservices.com/ | https://mbhglobalenterprise.org/
Book - A Clinician's Guide to Mandated Reporting: https://a.co/d/00W9SVEf
Are you ready to take the plunge and become a Traveling Therapist? Whether you want to be a full-time digital nomad or just want the flexibility to bring your practice with you while you travel a couple of times a year, the Portable Practice Method will give you the framework to be protected!
➡️ JOIN NOW: www.portablepracticemethod.com/
Connect with me:
- www.instagram.com/thetravelingtherapist_kym
- www.facebook.com/groups/onlineandtraveling/
- www.thetravelingtherapist.com
The Traveling Therapist Podcast is Sponsored by:
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I'm Kim Tolson and I'm the traveling therapist. It's my passion to teach therapists how to navigate online private practices and multiple income streams so they can travel the world. I'm a digital nomad with a virtual insurance-based private therapy practice and a multi-six-figure coaching business. In this podcast, I will discuss my journey as a digital nomad, I'll chat with other traveling therapists, and help you navigate the complexities of running an online insurance-based practice. I'm so glad to have you with me on this journey. A year from today, what would your dream private practice look like? Would you spend less time chasing claims or only working with clients who value your skill set? What if you had more time for yourself? Alma empowers you to confidently accept insurance backed by an all-in-one EHR that simplifies scheduling, documentation, and day-to-day practice operations. Your dream practice is closer than you think. Learn more about AMA at helloAMA.com. A year from today starts now at helloAMA.com. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Traveling Therapist Podcast. So I usually always start out and say, how'd you go from being a typical therapist to a traveling therapist? So today we have a therapist here with us. She's actually got an amazing background, so I want to talk about that. She's not exactly a traveler, but we did think that her topic would be helpful to traveling therapists. So that's why I wanted to invite Michelle Berlin here with us today. Michelle, thanks for being here. Usually I always start with that question and people just kind of start to tell their story. But maybe you could just introduce yourself a little bit, your education, because you're not just a therapist. I mean, you've got all this amazing stuff going on. So we could talk about that a little bit. And then sort of your specialty and how we can help potential traveling therapists.
SPEAKER_00Fabulous. Thank you, Kim, so much for allowing me to be on this podcast. I'm super excited. Although I myself am not a traveling therapist, I am licensed in multiple states. Although what I really want to impart to this group and this podcast is my book that I just published that I think will really be beneficial to traveling therapists. And it what it does is it delineates each state and jurisdiction's mandated reporting standards. So if you are a traveling therapist and you travel or practice telehealth through state lines, you do know the state-specific mandated reporting standards. Because I think that's important to protect your license. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And tell everybody. So you're not just the therapist, right? I mean, tell everybody like your educational background a little bit because it's like, okay, a therapist wrote a book about Band Air. Yes. She's a little more qualified than just me writing a book about this. Can you share that part? Because I think that's so interesting, everything you've done.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Sorry, I just jumped right in there. Um I've been practicing for 26 years, um, mainly in the forensic realm. I practiced in Arizona, Florida, and Alaska. I took, I I call break and air quotes because law school is not a break, but I went to law school, graduated, and but I did miss the personalization of therapy and treating the individual. So I opened a forensic private practice, and here I am. I do a lot of therapy, um, sex addiction. I do risk assessments and also expert witness in trainings and consultations.
SPEAKER_01So that's amazing to me. So so okay, I just want to understand. So you were a therapist first, and then what made you decide, like, oh wait, I think I'll go to law school? Like, how did you how did you do that? It's so interesting to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, I was working, again, in the forensic realm, and I I would testify in court a lot, and I just really enjoyed it. And I was like, you know what, this could be interesting, and I anticipated practicing law. And while I think it's interesting and super valuable, like I said, can I I miss that personalization and seeing the progress of the individual heal, core will, and so I decided, okay, how can I combine the best of both worlds? And so now here I am.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's amazing. That is amazing to me. So you got the law degree, but you're still practicing mainly as a therapist, but you're doing the the evaluations, which is really cool because then you've got that legal perspective already. Yeah, like on top of just being a clinician that's doing assessments. Wow. Yes, I know I really enjoy it. That's amazing. So I want to talk about your book and everything, but also, you know, before we hit record, I was talking to Michelle because with this podcast, I always try to like figure out an angle, right? Like we're the traveling therapist, like, how can we help the traveling therapist be more successful? So the court assessment piece, like I super curious about that. Are they usually like clients that come to you? They need an assessment, but then they continue to see you for therapy, or are you like doing one-off assessments as a business? If that like people out there in the world know that you do these assessments, like lawyers maybe know that you do these assessments. They send people to you, you do the assessment, you go to court, and then you're done with the client. Like, I'm curious how that works because it seems like traveling therapists, like they were doing assessments and licensed in like five states, right? They could just like travel around, maybe go do a court appearance, live in that state for a while. Like, I don't know. It just seems like an interesting take on this thing, you know?
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. As long as you're licensed in the state, you could practice, and that includes assessments. So, with that being said, yeah, trav traveling therapist can absolutely do assessments. I do get my referrals mainly from attorneys or probation officers. So the court for probation called me or emails me, asked me to do a sexual risk assessment or or threat analysis assessment. Those are my two assessments I typically do. And then I do them and write up the report. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Did you do these assessments before you became a lawyer, or did they come along after when you were like, you know, maybe I'll just start doing this, these, these full assessments? Or was that were you just already doing that and then you thought you'd become a lawyer too?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I mean, you don't have to have a law degree to do assessments. I know colo actually I'm the only one I know with the law degree doing assessments. So absolutely, clinicians do assessments all the time. And depending on your state laws, and this is where, you know, if you travel or practice in multiple states, you do have to look at the state-specific statutes too to see with your degree what assessments you are able to do and what you're not able to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's so interesting.
SPEAKER_01Maybe we could talk about that because that starts to dive into your book and what your book's about and all that. So how does one even find that out? Like, I'm an LCSW licensed in Virginia, right? I'm just curious. And I don't know if your book gets into that part of it. Yours is more mandatory mandatory reporting stuff, right? Right. Okay, so I don't know how much detail you know about that, but like how would I figure that out? Like, what kind of assessments can I do? Because I when I think assessment, I think psychologist, right? And not therapist. So I don't know. Just curious about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, and most people do. What I would tell people is, you know, one of two pathways. Number one, you could just call your board directly from the state that you're that you want to do the assessment in. So like Oregon, call the Oregon board, LPC, social workers, psychologists. They will know, and or they will direct you to the state-specific statute that delineates yes, psychologists can only do, you know, duty or fitness to duty assessments or competency assessments. But plenty of clinicians, LPCs, licensed social workers can do plenty of assessments too, like mental health integrated assessments.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's so interesting because I see that come up in the group, the traveling therapist Facebook group sometimes. Somebody will say, Were you guys doing immigration assessments? Could I do that abroad and just specialize in that? I always wonder about that. It seems like it'd be a good like income stream for therapists because you don't have to follow the client after that, right? You just do the assessment and the report, and then you're done.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And then you're done. You're done with that service. And then depending on your recommendations, the probation officer or the attorney takes it from there.
SPEAKER_01And for you, I guess it does it always include like, and we want you to show up in court and you know, support your findings, like that kind of thing?
SPEAKER_00Typically, I mean it can. The report is used in court, and it if you're deemed an expert witness, then absolutely you could testify. Or, you know, as an expert witness, you can also write your report and not testify as well. But yeah, absolutely, they use it in court proceedings all the time. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01And you guys, before I hit record, Michelle was telling me about this, and I'm like, that is my ultimate nightmare to be called to court as an expert witness. I told her I would probably cry for like two weeks before I even had to go. And she was like, I love it. She was like, I was in there yesterday. I love it. I just stayed right. I it takes a special person. Like, I think it's amazing that you love that and you're doing that. I really do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, thank you. I actually do, you know, and I'm shamelessly gonna plug this into Kim. That's okay. Do it, please. I I have um, and I'm an approved NBCC provider, so I can give out continuing education credits. And one of my courses is a four-hour course in how to become a successful courtroom witness for fact and expert witnesses. So yeah, and that's not state specific. So if you're interested in that or anyone's interested in that, they're more than welcome to contact me. And so I have such a training.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, but I have the link. You've got to give me the link to that so I can put that in the show notes too for people.
SPEAKER_00And it's just on my website, but I'll I'll I'll give that to you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so all of this history and everything you're doing, it I'm assuming is what kind of led to the need for this book that you wrote, right? Because I guess you have to know the stuff for what you're doing. So maybe we can talk about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. And actually this book, I was actually working on another book, four years that's embarrassing. But I haven't published it yet. It's uh For Clinicians, how to treat sex addiction. Um, I was doing the mandated reporting, just a one-hour quick lunch, you know, lunch and coffee. And the trainees come in for an hour and then leave. And during that training, there was so much interest and questions. And it just started from there and I completed it within three months, and here we are now. I think it's really useful because now, you know, psychologists are part of the psych pact and social workers, at least in Alaska, they're just part of the social work pact now. And I think to protect a license and for risk mitigation, it's super important to know each jurisdiction's mandated reporting standards so you could read and interpret statutory language, which I know is not fun for everyone, it's fun for me.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it's amazing. Yeah, like I've got a friend, Dr. Lisa Lovelace, she's got a group practice. I mean, I think she's got clinicians in 47 states or something like that. Like, could you I mean, I well, I'm sure you can imagine, but like a group practice owner, a multi-state group practice owner would really benefit from something like this. Like a very clear-cut, like, here's what you do in each state. And with that being said, I actually last was it last week?
SPEAKER_00I think it was last, yeah, last Wednesday, I gave a group consultation. I was invited to talk to a group practice that does have clients come because they're private pays, so they come for specialized intensive, weeklong intensive from all states. And so I did a consultation on my book. They purchased copies, but also I explained statutory language and how to interpret the standards. So yeah, that was fun. Yeah, I guess they have they have clients from all states too.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, that is so tell us I'm I'm a little rusty with I have like three therapy clients. Well, I actually two now, two therapy clients, you know, and there there's no situations with them I can think of that maybe a mandatory report would need be needed. So, like, what are things you would do a report on that you'd have to report? And like maybe is it consistent for all states? I don't even know.
SPEAKER_00I mean, the language is different, the standards of care are different, which I'll get into. But there are similar fees from lack of better word, but categories. Number one, of course, is child welfare. Number two is vulnerable or incapacitated or dependent adults, different states call it, you know, term it different terms. And number three is duty to warn and protect. And it is different for every state. And so there are a couple different mandated recording standards that often people see in the language. And one of those is reasonable cause, another one is reasonable suspicion or reason to suspect or reason to believe. So perhaps a statute will say if you have reasonable cause to believe a child is at harm, or if you have, you know, reason to believe a child is at harm. And I think those are important. In my book, I highlight those in red to clearly illustrate that these are the standards of care. And people often say, well, Michelle, what does that mean? What does a reasonable cause? How do you know if you have or meet that reasonable cause to make a report? And I say the standard of that is to ask yourself, okay, what would uh a clinician do with similar experience, education, training, background as I? And that's the reasonable cause. So standards are different for like an intern with limited experience or a 20-year seasoned clinician, because that's the standard of reasonableness. And a per with a person similar to my experience, what would they do? And that's the standard.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. So there's a difference with an intern versus a seasoned clinician?
SPEAKER_00Or I think the standard of reasonableness is the same, but that's why I think it's important always, whether you're seasoned or like an intern, to consult with either your supervisor or other clinicians. If you have any doubt at if this should be reported or not, I always say error on the side of caution because it's not our job to investigate or substantiate. It's our job to report and let OCS or CPS or whatever the relevant agency is or law enforcement to make that determination.
SPEAKER_01Wow, yeah, that's so interesting. So I just have a lot of questions about it. So because I've I I don't know. I mean, I feel like maybe most of us are up to date in the beginning on our license and like what the standard is, but maybe if you don't deal with with situations like that as much. And I always struggle with that as a clinician. Not that type of stuff, but just like a mom maybe talks about being too strict or you know, maybe you, you know, it I always struggle with that. Like what is the standard there? So I'm just curious. I guess what you said, right? Err on the side of caution. I guess that would just be the thing to do, always just err on the side of caution.
SPEAKER_00And that's what I do. And that's what because I s many people come into my trainings and they're like, well, what about this scenario or what about this scenario? And I say, okay, well, look at the statute, look at the language in the statute. And if you believe or are have any reasonable, you know, reasonable suspicion or cause to make that call, just make the call. If it's unsubstantiated, then it ends there. But it's not our call to make. So again, if we have any doubt, let's just say for vulnerable adults, people are like, okay, well, Michelle, well, what's a vulnerable adult? What's the definition of a dependent adult? And you know, I say, oh, well, this is where statutory languages comes in handy because many, if not all states, as I did my research, that you know, it's interesting to see different jurisdictions label things differently and define things differently. But many of them have a statute where the definition is in the statute, and I I reference that in my book too. So dependent adult, this is the definition of a vulnerable adult or dependent adult. Um, so we don't have to make that judgment cov. It's written in the statute. And like you said, if you have any inclination or suspicion, yeah, just make them report and yeah, let the rest kind of follow. Yeah, where it goes.
SPEAKER_01So how often do statutes change? I mean, like one, I'm thinking logistically, like you just wrote this book. Like, are you are you gonna keep it updated? Because oh my gosh, and I just don't know. I don't know how often that stuff changes, or is it pretty much like it's been the same for like 20 years in the state, like kind of thing. I'm just curious about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, great question. And I did, you know, just just uh I put the 26 edition because there might be some changes. Typically, I mean it takes a lot to stay change or add or modify statutory language, so it's not like a yearly thing, but it does happen. And so I wanted to note that and maybe make some edits in the book here as years come to follow. If there are any changes, if there's not, then yeah, it's the same. Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_01So it do you have okay, I just this is probably totally off the cuff. And if you don't, that's fine. But I just wonder like, since you've looked at all these different states, are there some states where you're like, what? Like, I can't believe this. That you I would love to just, I mean, just this is totally just me being geeky about it. But is is there like one you could share or something that is like you just couldn't believe it?
SPEAKER_00Or no, yeah, you know, yes, I can't remember the certain states because it was a couple months ago. But I remember because I I did research, you know, of course, all the states, and then I had to organize it. So I researched it again. Um and some states, I can't really remember the specific states, but there were two. I was like, this language is really obtuse. Like I don't understand what they're doing. And then some states are very streamlined and organized. It and I can't remember which states were which, but yes, some states, in my opinion, have better written statutes than other than other states, more well-written and defined statutes than other states. And that's where I think either consultation or ask your board or trainings come in handy because it's really about protecting your license. At the end of the day, I always, no matter what I do for my clients or risk assessments, I am always like, okay, whatever I write down in a risk assessment or in therapy or mandated reporting, I'm like, how can I defend this in court? If I'd have to go to court on this, how am I going to be able to support my decision to call, like a mandated reporting call or not to call? How will I support my decision? And I go from there. Yeah. So smart. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So if a clinician is sitting with the struggle and they read the statute and it's one of those states that's super obtuse, right? Who do you get consults from? Like, I mean, obviously you would probably be, I don't know if you do that, but maybe a good person since you've got the legal and the therapeutic background. So somebody like you, or is there like, do you call your liability insurance and talk to the legal department there? Like, what do you do? I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, all of the above. Oh, okay. And I I absolutely do consultations, individual and for group practices for all states. Your liability insurance, absolutely. There, there's a legal team there, your state board. So there's multiple sources to go to. And they've got one more than once. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because like I said, your board I'd be the first. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I would, you know, your board or the malpractice, your malpractice insurance, I think, is key. And then you could, of course, I think consult consultation is super important in practice and just to get different perspectives and maybe shed some more insight that you don't think about. But yeah, absolutely that's secondary, I think, too. Talking to your board and your malpractice insurance. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Now, this might be a dumb question. I don't know. I'm thinking it in my head. Uh when I'm saying it out loud, it might not, it might be dumb. But isn't the age of consent different in different states? And would that have anything to do with the mandatory mandatory reporting? Like, you know, I just wonder how that that's all connected.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's a great question. Because age of consent is fairly different in states, and states it's 16, some states is 18. And yes, it can absolutely affect mandated reporting because what is an appropriate behavior or illegal, I should say illegal behavior with a minor? Do they have the ability to have consent in that state? Now, where it gets interesting too is if you are practicing, like if you're a traveling therapist and you're practicing across state lines doing telehealth. what state do you reference the age of consent, right? So if your state is eighteen but your clients living in a state where consent is sixteen, what's the age of consent? And so that's becoming a newly, you know, concern that I hear a lot too in my training as well. Well, Michelle, what you know, which state do I go off of? And the answer is where the state where the client is located. I would also report to my board, like what the state where I'm physically located in, they're probably gonna direct me to the other state of the client because they have jurisdiction and the board. So if I'm in Alaska and I'm seeing a client, let's say in Oregon, and there's different statutory requirements, I may contact my board. They may just refer me to the Oregon OCS or law enforcement anyway. But you must contact where your client is because that has jurisdictional agency over the laws.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because my um I mentioned Dr. Lisa Lovelace, but she and I did a course together that's multi-state, the nitty gritty of multi-state expansion. And we have a module kind of in there we don't have all the states or anything like that. But this definitely is a nuance that comes up because a lot of people will say is it worth it to get licensed in multiple states? And it's like these are the things people don't think about when they're doing that. Like we know every state is different. So you're gonna have to be up on all of that and paying attention to it. So your resource is fantastic for that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and and I think now especially with the the compacts going on and you know telehealth. Like you said group practices just maintaining liability over their clinicians are their clinicians that they're employing participating or ethically responsible in the state laws.
SPEAKER_01So I guess even with the compact it probably still follows the same logic right is wherever the client's sitting at the time when sure when you realize that there's an issue that's what where you would go first with that state statute. Yeah that makes sense. Okay. Sure.
SPEAKER_00And but you have to abide by your board and your state too. So and that's where knowing your specific state um does it clearly explore a slave state to contact them as well. And every state's different as I was doing research and write writing the book it it was very interesting how similar but yet dissimilar states are in their requirements. And that's why I think this is so useful and I I'm so excited to help others protect their license because I've seen people get in trouble for not making mandated reports when they should have. And that's why I think it's so important that you in your informed consent I know you don't see any clients like a a a clinician a normal therapist. Yeah yeah a normal therapist um clearly states in their informed consent documents about mandated reporting reference their state's jurisdictions and maybe if they are doing telehealth and the client's in another state to add that in but I think it's important to start there so the client knows exactly the boundaries what you will report, what you won't report that takes emotion out of it and this is just I'm obligated and this is what I need to do.
SPEAKER_01Okay so where do people find you in your book and if they want you to come speak you know just where do they go?
SPEAKER_00Uh thank you yeah so my website primarily I am listed on psychology today but my website should I get the website address yeah that'd be great. Oh okay thank you. Yeah sure so it's Veritas so V B R I T A S Consulting Services dot com and there you can find my trainings my consultation my book my book's available on Amazon under my name. And yeah like I said I do trainings and consultations I do training as a mandated recording how to become a successful witness if you have anxieties in the courtroom with with I think that's my most popular training so far. I bet. And then also sexual addiction how to treat clients with sexual addiction because I think that's I think that's important. I think a lot of people maybe treat clients with sexual addiction for like substance abuse or other addictions and it's not it's a specialty. So I do trainings in all of these pages are are on my website too. Yeah that's so interesting.
SPEAKER_01So this is I know we were kind of wrapping it up but but I just wonder about with the with the sex assessments and stuff what are I mean if you had like different types of mandated reporting come up when you're doing those assessments because I guess I don't know are you doing them for like like a lawyer like a defense attorney or like a prosecutor like I'm just curious about like like who's who's your you know customer I guess curious about right um well to answer your question I have yes I have made it made mandated reporting calls and even if oh this is this is a fantastic area because clearly the mandated reporting call has been made for me to review the collateral information that with maybe abuse or sexual abuse or neglect I still make that report because in my statute in my state it doesn't delineate an age or a timeframe doesn't say if it's already been reported don't report.
SPEAKER_00So even though I know it's been reported I always make that report and document that I made it even though I know you know the investigation has already happened. And so yes I have made reports and yes I frequently do them for like I said either the prosecution or Office of Public Advocacy or juvenile probation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah different sources so interesting so it didn't even occur to me that you might be getting the referral after the mandatory reporting has already happened.
SPEAKER_00That makes a lot of sense always yeah always that's I mean unless they disclose something new which I also have made reports that's doesn't happen very frequently but if it yeah if they said something concerning or add online behaviors.
SPEAKER_01Yeah absolutely that's so interesting. Oh my gosh. So I guess if they're mandated report or they're coming to you after a report well I'm assuming I mean I guess not all reports are true but I guess they are there they considered like sex offenders in most cases that you're doing the assessments on or because when I thought sex addiction, I don't know I thought about a husband and wife and the husband's cheating or something but I didn't even consider it like you're probably getting it from more of a criminal perspective I guess.
SPEAKER_00Well yeah I don't know yeah no no no I think it's important because yes so in my practice I do see like the general public for sex addiction that's non-offenders um people you know dealing with pornography addictions or compulsive sexual behaviors even not even behaviors urges and maybe they are able to manage it. So that's one piece of my practice in non-offenders my assessments mainly in the criminal and civil courts but yes they they are in trouble with the law their behaviors have been gotten them in trouble so sexual problematic behaviors or like I said assessments. Yeah that's true amazing oh my gosh are you ever scared? Are you doing in the office with different people? I don't know I feel like it's yeah I do I I do oh my gosh I I just you know I I've worked in jails and prisons and okay whatever yeah no it it's I'm I'm comfortable I'm always on guard not on edge but on guard I mean take precautions and yeah like that's where I situate the room I don't know if you see my chairs closer to the door than the couch that they sit on. But no I enjoy the work I I enjoy yeah fast you do I really enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah so interesting oh my gosh that's a really neat neat niche that you've got so it's it's very thank you thanks for sharing and letting me pick your brain and all that good stuff and I appreciate you being here and yeah if anybody wants to learn from Michelle everything will be in the show notes and thanks a lot I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Great oh awesome thank you so much I really appreciate this and it was so much fun.
SPEAKER_01So thank you thank you so much for listening to the Traveling Therapist Podcast for show notes links and downloads head over to traveling therapist.com where you'll be able to learn more about my journey the courses I've created for you and other exciting resources to make your dreams become a reality if you've enjoyed this episode please share with your traveling therapist friends subscribe to the podcast and if you love this episode please leave a review