Episode 23: The search for Shéa's soul and an interview with EMMA HAMM!

Today's episode calls for an alcohol-free Aperol spritz! Join Shéa and Amy as they talk about witchcraft, Emma Hamm's latest release "The Heartless One," and general shenanigans.

Affirmation:

I stand in my power, honoring the strength of my ancestors while healing generational wounds and reshaping the future.

Emma Hamm:

Website: emmahamm.com

Instagram: instagram.com/emmahammauthor

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@emmahammauthor

Aperol Spritz (Energy: Joy, luck, and community energy)

Mocktail Ingredients:

• 3 oz Lyres Italian Spritz
• 3 oz. orange Seltzer
• Ice

Garnish: Orange slice

Directions:

Add ice to a wine glass. Add Lyres, top with seltzer, garnish with orange.

COCKTAIL Ingredients:

• 3 oz prosecco
• 2 oz Aperol
• 1 oz soda water
• Ice

Garnish: Orange slice

Directions:

Add ice to a wine glass. Add (in order) prosecco, Aperol, and top with soda water. Add orange slice for garnish

Vermouth Spritz

• 2 oz Italian Sweet Vermouth
• 4 oz Tonic Water (this provides both flavor and bitterness)
• Splash of orange liqueur (ups orange flavor) 
• Dash orange bitters
• 1 oz simple syrup (optional for those who prefer sweeter drinks)
• Ice

Garnish: Orange slice

Add ice to a wine glass. Add vermouth, tonic, orange liqueur, bitters, simple syrup (if using) and garnish with orange slice. 

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Theme song: Chernoye Vedma by Ian Post

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Thanks - the Caftan Coven

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Cliffhangers and Cocktails Podcast with Amy Sissel and Cher McLeod, both USA Today bestselling authors of paranormal women's fiction, among other things. Brought to you by the Caftan Coven.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Today we're going to be talking with author Emma Ham about her new book, The Heartless One. We'll also be talking about the usual witchy things and general shenanigans.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Yay! Today I'm gonna start you off with a little affirmation I found and then altered to suit my purposes.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Which is the best way to do stuff like that. Absolutely, because I'm super everything to suit Shaya's purposes.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Exactly. My personal per purposes. I've been really into the whole matriarchy lately. I mean always, but like especially lately. And so I And if you've listened to our recent podcast, you will already be aware of this. Yes, you will. And if you haven't, I highly recommend going back and listening to them. Yeah, because they're awesome and they're fun. As a woman, I stand in the power, in my power, honoring the strength of my ancestors, particularly my female ancestors, while healing generational wounds and reshaping the future. A lot of times when we talk about our more our immediate, you know, ancestors, our parents, our grandparents, you know, we talk a lot about the trauma that's handed down. We're learning more and more in psychology and whatnot that, you know, trauma is actually not just inherited through experience, but it's literally handed down in our DNA. And so a lot of us come from these sort of traumatic past. There, I mean, a lot of trauma. There's a lot of trauma in my family line, but there was also a lot of very strong women. And so it was it's for me, this was kind of a combination of I have my own power I'm honoring their strength, but I'm also sort of cutting off the trauma and healing the wounds like going forward. And I kind of think for the rise of the matriarchy, that's kind of what we need to do to build a healthy, uh, healthier uh planet and a healthier community. So that's my little affirmation for the day. Yes, I will. And I don't have direct descendants, but I do shape the future through my words and through my connection with other humans. So I stand in my power, honoring the strength of my ancestors while healing generational wounds and reshaping the future. I really like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

I believe that generational trauma is real.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

And as Shay and I, I this is okay, I don't want to shock anybody too much, especially our YouTube viewers. Shay and I are both white. I know, I know, generational trauma for us is real in a lot of different ways, but it's different if you're coming at it from somebody uh who is indigenous or black or has other pasts that involve chattel slavery or things like that. It's going to be a very different generational trauma. But white generational trauma is valid, but we have to remember as white people that it's different and leaves can lead very different scars.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. We actually carry trauma in our bodies from all the way back, and then of course, whatever your family, every family has its different level of trauma, and we have trauma, you know, from us, you know, from the societal level of what's going on now, what went on during our mother's time, our grandmothers. What regardless of the trauma, we can heal that in ourselves and for our children, our grandchildren, nieces, nephews, and the children of the world. Actually, for all generations going forward. If when we start to heal ourselves and to acknowledge the trauma and face it and heal it while still honoring what that trauma taught us, then we can go forward and have a better future for everybody. So, Amy, what's our topic today? Tell me.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Our topic for today is shenanigans. Woohoo! And I'm like coming in early to the shenanigans because I'm just like getting all willy-nilly over here. Shenanig. Today we're talking about shenanigans. So our first shenanigans.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Tell me, oh tell me, oh, tell me. Because I don't know. I didn't like I totally wrote this, but of course I don't know. It's it's all gonna be surprised.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

No, that is so weird. Well, today is April 7th. Yeah. And April 7th is Do Know Housework Day. Woo! Yay! Oh, I'm here for that. Which is awesome. But also today, April 7th, is the day before my child's 14th birthday.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Oh my goodness gracious.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

He will probably be excited to find out what today is.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I I bet she will. I bet she'll be very excited. Did you also know that today in 1969 the internet was born?

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Which is I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

I didn't either. I mean, I know it's been around a lot longer than like, you know, the general population has had access to it.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Is that when Al Gore was born?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

I think Al Gore was born before 1969.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

I believe that's true. I'd be very surprised.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

I don't know his precise date of birth, but I'd be shocked if it was not before 1969. Sorry, Al Gore. You're a great guy. But I think that's kind of an I think he was 22 when he became vice president. I think he was a little bit older than that, from what I recall, because I remember him being vice president. Alright, so today the internet was born. Today the internet was born, and which is pretty awesome because if it hadn't been born, you would not be hearing this podcast, and that would be sad. You know, if it if it hadn't been born, I don't know if we'd be friends. You know, that's true. Because I mean we met at the Rose City Writers Group thingy, but we actually stayed in touch because of uh the internet. Yes, because we an Instagram with wine. Right. And like I think like we followed each other that day or something. Like I only have the vaguest recollection of that to be perfectly honest.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

There's a lot of stuff happening.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yeah. And I think you only came like that once, maybe, or twice. Oh yes, that was my only time. It was very grave of me. Yeah. And I was like, hey, cool, cool new person. And then we're like, wine, and then we're like, yay, and then we're like, let's get together. But if it hadn't been for the interwebs, I probably would have seen you there, we'd have been like, hey, and then we'd have never seen each other again.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

And there's a lot of Yeah, I don't know if tomorrow would be my daughter's 14th birthday if it wasn't for the internet.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Oh my goodness. Did you meet your extra? Online.

unknown 7:49

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

The world would be a very different place. And and we remember that place. At least I remember that place. Well, I mean, I don't remember pre-1969, but um the I don't remember that at all because I wasn't here. I remember when the internet like first kind of became available like in people's homes, you know. And I do too. Yeah, so and so I remember what you're significantly younger. You are much, much, many years younger than so many years. So many years. Life was different, and it's sort of funny when I watch all these older um shows, like say murder she wrote, right? And like, why doesn't she just call him on a why don't you just send him a text? Well, they didn't no texting. Why then did she look it up on the internet? Well, no internet, well, later in the show. So also today, happy birthday to Billy Holiday. I know she has passed on, but she was born on April 7th, 1915. And her music is freaking like magical. It will make the hair stand up. So if you've if you've never heard her sing, I recommend to listen.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Yeah, do yourself a favor and go find something to listen to. You know, I'm I I'll drop something in the show notes that's just go here and listen. Um because you will not be sad. There's there's one of her songs.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yeah. There is one of her songs. It's uh it was very controversial at Strange Fruit. It is the words, the lyrics are so it's very, it's a very deep song, but it is stunning, stunning. I mean, it will if it doesn't stir your soul, I don't think you have one. Honestly.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Uh, because it's Okay, redheads, maybe be careful with this, okay? If you're a ginger, don't report back if this doesn't move through because otherwise we'll all know.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

They always ask me if I have because I'm so pale, they're like, is you know, is your hair naturally red? Do you have any redheads in your family? It's like, well, actually, yeah. Not you. Well, my hair used to turn kind of like strawberry blonde in the sun.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Do you know the situation with your soul?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Um, I'm gonna guess it's f currently around loosely. It's small, it's a small soul. I am not a ginger. Um fully soul. Oh well, no, we all know he doesn't have a soul. Okay, if you're not familiar with this, it used to be believed that redheads uh did not have souls. Yeah. And it was actually mostly redheaded females. Redheaded men were often considered like I don't know if they thought they had souls or not, but they were respected because they were considered to be more badass warriors.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

You have to be careful. Redheads don't feel pain the same way snormies.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

This is true, which is why they ask you about that when you're gonna get surgery or whatever. You need more anesthesia if you're a redhead. Even though I'm not redhead, because that gene is in it's hanging around.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

What you're doing with your arms there?

SPEAKER_01 11:10

It was like I'm trying to think, like, it was it's in my bloodline, it's in my DNA, I don't know. Well, yeah. Maybe I don't have one. Or maybe I do sometimes in the other rooms. We'll find out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

I'll figure out how to test for that. And next time I see you.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Water gun with holy water, see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

I mean, I think generally didn't they like throw you it, you know, throw you in the body of water tied up with rocks and see if you I'm not gonna tie rocks on you and throw you in water. It sounds like a lot of work. And check me in the river over there in Porto. I just need a like water pistol in holy water. I mean, that'll work. Maybe a little salt. Maybe like throw some salt at you, see what happens. Well, as of yet, s I mean, I have actually touched holy water and I didn't go up in flames. I've walked into churches, I did not get struck by lightning. I mean, as much of a surprise to me as to you, I'm sure. I've I've used salt scrubs. There were there were a few singed areas, but you know, other than that, I was fine.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, so um, hey, we're smack dab in the middle of airie season. Segue. Did you like it?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Like for some like you're like, hey, yeah, that was an actual very smooth. I mean, but you're but you're not you're not wrong. It actually it actually is.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

And I was gonna say it is important during Aries season to balance your impulsive urges with disciplined long-term planning, and perhaps balance your impulsive urges to talk about your co-host's soul or lack there huh with some discipline in reading the scripts and not going so far afield. What would be the fun in that though? We are so we're we're right in the middle of Aries season, we are headed towards Taurus season when everything's gonna stabilize a little bit, but right now we're full of that that fiery Aries energy.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Oh yeah. And it's of course, as we know, it's it's the red horse or fire horse year. That isn't like full of Aries energy, I don't know what is. Just like all the fire, all the air, all the what was that?

unknown 13:30

Boo!

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Very scientific.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yes, I'm all about science. So we kind of came through Aries. We talked when we were talking about Aries season, which is a great time to launch things, to launch a Kickstarter, to launch a new series, to put out a new book or whatever. As we kind of slide into Taurus season, it's like, okay, so what am I gonna plan for the rest of the year? Let's make a somewhat stable plan for I know Torrents. But we need that because we've had like a lot of upheaval, I think, over the last couple of seasons. But we're through like one of the worst Mercury and retrogrades ever. Seriously? WTF. I what was that all about? Like holy banana crackers. I am not often heavily affected by uh Mercury retrograde, at least as far as communication goes, because it a lot of the the issues with Mercury retrograde, excuse me, come come from disruption in communication and disrupt freaking technology and technology and stuff. Yeah, and I do have some issues with technology sometimes, but like the communication is usually not a problem. But this one it was rough.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Looking at things that we can do for grounding, for that stability, as we're trying to balance our fiery Aries energy. There are so many small rituals and things that we can do in terms of everyday witchcraft. And I think that is such a delight that this is the topic that Shea picked to talk about today. Because it really is a great way to look at all those tiny things that you can do. Not everything has to be a big spell, a big working, right? Big ritual. There's so many everyday things that you can do as long as you're doing a member intention that are your everyday witchcraft.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Absolutely. And that's actually sort of the very basis of witchcraft. Witchcraft wasn't about like big dancing naked under the moon around a bonfire.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

I mean that I would like to send back my membership card.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

I mean, that happens. That's not the base the basis of it was just small everyday working, small everyday magics. It was, you know, stirring wishes into a cake. It was adding a little bit of luck into someone's wedding. It was protecting the house, cleansing the the negative inner s energies. I found a few little fun, easy little things uh that are like so much spells, although they're like just little rituals that you can like work into everyday life. So this was one I hadn't even thought of, but you can gather your pets, like if you have cats or dogs or chinchillas or whatever, you can gather their shed whiskers or fur. Yes, Amy.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

I um need everyone to know that it is incredibly important to post pictures of your pets. Yes. And tell you guys. Please do. Like hashtag cliffhangers and cocktails. Mm-hmm. So we know about your chinchillas and other furry animals. Yes. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

And I imagine you could also, if you have non-furry animals, like I don't know, say you have a snake or something. They're shed their shed uh skin. Um, but whatever whatever they s you know shed, just collect those things uh and save them for protection and health spells for your pets. I I was reading a whole Reddit thread about all what these people were oh yeah, I collect my cats like shed whiskers. Well, I collect my dog's shed fur. I collect my bunnies' fur when I'm brushing it, you know. And then they do these spells to protect their pets, which I think is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

That's really fun. I have three cats. Yeah. And I think if I collected their shat fur, maybe I could do a magic ritual to make a new cat every week because there's enough fur for it. You will have a whole new cat. What are all these bags of cat fur doing in my closet? Oh my god. Okay, so new fun thing that I'm gonna do is get a little bag and just put cat fur in it and not tell the rest of my family what's going on. Okay, I love this so much for you. What happens if they discover my weird cat fur bag?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

I love this so much for you. I can't wait to hear back about the results of this. Now, sadly, I will report in. Excellent. Sadly, I do not have any pets with which to make this report.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

So And I would love to send you some cat fur, but you're at least. So I guess I will not. Please don't. Send some back with our our our third member of our coven, Samantha, is coming to visit me in Portugal. So maybe I'll just send back that bag of cat for whatever we can do next time. I'm not gonna do that. That'd be mean.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Can you imagine her going through like customs or whatever and going through the airport security, and they're like, yeah, we have a bag of cap for gosh, wow, yeah, okay. Whew! Apparently I little witch hats, witch hats. Um, so this one is for the writers in particular, but you can actually do this kind of with any decision that you're making. Let's say you're torn between two or more choices when it comes to like, you know, maybe the next book you want to write, or whether you should start a new series or finish this series, or or maybe you have two titles for a book and you're not sure which one you should use. Pull out your tarot or oracle deck, um, it doesn't really matter which one, whichever whichever one floats your boat, and ask the cards to show you what each choice will bring. I mean, just do one at a time. I wouldn't recommend doing, okay, should I do this one or this one and then pulling a card? Because that's not really how the cards.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

If you have a magic eight ball that might not actually work.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah, yeah. Um, I I know some people can do that with pendulums. Yeah. Check back next time. You're screwed. Well, what kind of a magic eight ball do you have? Yours is mean. Mine's possessed, I think.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Or they're evidence of the soul theory.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Let's say you have two series and you're not sure which one you should write first. Maybe one's an ongoing one, one's a new one. So take your first choice, choice A, and ask the cards, what's the result if I publish this book? Like, what's the result monetarily? Or what's the result readership point of view? Then do, okay, now B, and then pull a card for B. We did this for, I think it was titles. She had two titles she was struggling with, and I suggested she did this, and she was able to pick a title that way. We'll do a mini pod on this a little bit, go into it a little deeper in the future, and maybe even and do some samples and examples. And we may I think we've we've mentioned this before, but um you can double your shower or bath time, you know, whichever you take. I am a shower girl myself. Um, but you could double that as a ritual time, like use it to do a ritual cleansing uh to cleanse your energetic body, not just your physical one. And I do this regularly. You can just literally stand under the shower and just imagine the water pouring over both your physical body and your energetic body and just washing away negativity and but you could also do like a salt scrub to aid in the cleansing or or soap. I've also used it like and visualize the the the water as like a shower of money, and money is is flowing to me, money is sticking to me, you know. If you have limited mobility and you need to do like Like more of a sponge bath situation, you can still damp your washcloth, do strokes that kind of like as if you're removing uh bad energy from your body. Uh that's nice and f well. This is this is my favorite. I do this every day. Okay. So when I'm making my coffee in the morning, I add a tiny pinch of salt in my coffee grounds before I brew it, and then I brew it with the in them. Because there's there's two things it does. One thing the the physical science thing that it does is literally like sort of make the coffee smoother. It cuts, it balances the acidity of the coffee. So that it even you you're not tasting the salt, it's such a small amount of salt, but it's just balancing. So if you have like a a coffee that's a little more acidic, it balances and it makes it smoother. Daily protection spell because salt is good for protection, um, and it also for cleansing negative energies, and then of course the smoother and the richer. And I also sometimes will put in like a tiny pinch of cinnamon while it's brewing for um cinnamon is also good for protection, and it's also good for like for luck, for money energy. Sometimes it'll be nutmeg. Do you have any everyday witch tips going on?

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Some of the things that I consider everyday tips is most every day I will draw a tarot card or an oracle card in the morning just to help me focus on what my intentions are for the day and maybe what I need to focus more on during the day. I also am a big firm believer in the magical power of I was gonna say the magic bedroom power, but that's not the no like the the magical power in making your bedroom a space that is welcoming and joyful. And so for me, part of that ritual is making sure that I make the bed. I don't want to hear Nay saying about leaving the bed unmade, blah blah blah, dust blah, mites. I'm gonna make my bed every day because it makes me happy.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

You are allowed to make your bed every day. You do you boo.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

And I like to have the sh the shutters up and the windows open. Unless it's nasty outside, I will have the windows open all the time. Feels very much like that cleansing, cleaning, cleansing power so that my rest space is rustable. Awesome. I also always have black tourmaline on me. Oh. That's my other everyday magic. Fun fact, I had a bunch of black tourmaline in my townhouse in Portland before I moved to Porto. And it was, I had it everywhere, just like in the corners of rooms. My daughter's room had like this little window seat situation with cupboards underneath, and she never kept anything in those cupboards. So I just shoved some black tourmaline in there in the corner of her closet, in the corner of my closet, in my bedroom corner, like everywhere. Forgot to gather any of it before I move. So I'm excited for whoever moved it after and just looking at it. As we've said so many times, so much of witchcraft is intention. Most of witchcraft is intention. Yeah. Huge. So if there's something that you need in your daily life that you're not getting, it doesn't have to be a big thing. You have to set an intention and find something that will give you meaning and that will match the intention you're trying to set, and just incorporate that. It doesn't have to be a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Absolutely. And speaking of everyday witchcraft, everyday magic, is it cocktails? It is cocktails, yes, it is. It is cocktails. Or today we're having we're talking about mocktails. Or cocktails. Um our guest today is Emma Ham. And her favorite potion is a mocktail Aperol spritz. Obviously, Amy likes the real deal.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

I am Amy isn't gonna go buy non-alcoholic cocktail mix. Because Amy will never use it.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Uh Amy's uh drinking the all uh the alternate the real the cocktail version. The alcoholic version. The alcoholic version, and I am not a fan of Aperol, so I'm doing a complete an alternate version. Oh, that's so pretty. She's holding up her glass, it's got a lovely orange slice that's just so very orangey. I am drinking an alternate version, it has many of the same energies, but it's got different ingredients. So lucky you, you get three recipes today for the price of one!

unknown 27:00

Woo!

SPEAKER_02 27:02

So the Mott Tellus Emma shared with us, the way that she makes it, is three ounces of Italian spritz, non-alcoholic Italian spritz, and she says her favorite brand is Liars, L-Y-R-E-S. And there'll be all of this is in the show notes. But first of all, what a great brand for non-alcoholic beverages, liars. Liars. It it looks like the little instrument, but also it's funny. Yes. Because it's liars. It's like a dual meaning.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

We're authors, so we know about this. We know about these things, yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Um, and then she adds orange seltzer, so she does equal parts, uh, Italian spritz and orange seltzer, and then ice and orange slice for garnish. So you just use ice in the glass, you add the lyres, you add the seltzer, and you garnish.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

It's a very easy thing. Yes. And overall the overall energy of this drink changes a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

So I got so excited.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Oh, that yes, no, that's fine, because the overall energy, it kind of depends which version you try, but overall, they all have the same at their root, the same energy, and that's of joy, luck, and community. So, which I think is just great. So, uh, yeah, so the mocktail ingredients are really easy, and if you're in the United States, they're super easy, I think, to find. If you're somewhere else, like Porto.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

You probably I mean, I'm sure it's available. I didn't look very hard, but I do want to say with the energy that one of the things that I found delightful about this energy of joy, luck, and community was that this mocktail, this Aperol Spritz Mocktail that Emma chose, she also served at her wedding. That was the wedding mocktail.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

That was the wedding mocktail, yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

How much joy and luck and community energy does that bring?

SPEAKER_01 28:50

And that was the whole intention, actually, of the Aperol Spritz itself. Um, I I was kind of like uh reading up on it a little bit. So Aperol has been around for like a hundred years, something like that, and it was literally created for bringing people together and to have the a joyful, vibrant, sort of celebratory energy. That's literally why the reason it was created, the purpose it was created, which I love, and so her mocktail-I mean, she's using it just as it was intended, although hers is is a mocktail version, and I love that there's that option so that you can have drinkers and non-drinkers both enjoying something delicious with the same energy together. So I love that, and it becomes inclusive for for all. So the cocktail ingredients now you use the traditional three, two, one method, yeah. Or or I did rush ratios, which is three ounces of prosecco, two ounces of Aperol, and one ounce of soda water.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah, you you you want to make sure your wine glass is pretty well chilled, so add the ice and maybe throw it in the freezer into your glass and throw it in the freezer or the fridge for a little bit before you add your ingredient. Yeah. And I do have to say that when I did mine, so and there is a video that will be available on me making but I did this, I added my prosecco, my aparol, my soda water, and then my slice of orange, and I'm like, well, this glass is not full enough. So then I just put more prosecco in.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Which you can do and pretty for the picture. Yeah, exactly. We don't want ugly pictures. Now, my cocktail, as we said, I guess you could call it a vermouth spritz, if you will, because I love vermouth I or I shouldn't say love, I like uh sweet vermouth. So what I did is I took two ounces of Italian sweet vermouth, and it has a lot of those herbal notes, but it's less bitter and it's a little and it's sweeter. So I take the the vermouth and then four ounces of tonic water, and this kind of it gives it the bubble, but it also gives it a little bit of bitterness and it gives uh a lot of flavor as well, and it provides some of the same herbal energies that that the Aperol has. And then I just put like a little splash of orange liqueur and a couple dashes of orange bitters, which kind of adds that orange flavor that's missing, which is in the Aperol. And you can add, I actually don't add any simple syrup or any sugar to it, because I think the vermouth is sweet enough. I know, I know, I know, I know you're very surprised. Yeah, it was her shocked face, yes, because I I tend to add simple syrup to just about all my drinks.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

I mean, even when we doing cocktails and I'll be like, I did this when I left the simple syrup out. And I'll be like, I added extra.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Exactly. But I actually really liked this because it was a really refreshing light drink. Because probably because I don't have prosecco in it, it's just the tonic water. But I didn't have prosecco. I know, I know, I know, I'd had no prosecco in the house.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

And also I think that this relationship is one of its worst.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Um, I do have wine, many kinds of wine, just not prosecco for some reason. Um, but also I just thought um you know, try in trying to replicate the energy of this drink. I was kind of uh look and and the fli a little bit of the flavors, but that's why I was going for the tonic water. Now CN Rowan, Chris Rowan, who we who we uh talked to. He'll be on in a couple weeks. Yeah, he'll be on a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Or a month. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

He recommended using PIMS instead of April, um, which PIMS, if you're not familiar, it's very British. It's a gin-based drink that has a lot of like fruits and and herbs and things in it. And I do like PIMS quite a bit. So that's that's an experiment I'm going to do for science this summer.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Because you're such a giver.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

I know, I really am. I really am. Hashtag giving. Because it's like Aperol Spritz, PIMS is a very like summer drink. It's when people gather, it's for celebrations, it's for when people gather.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

I think because as we're recording this at this exact second, we are about ten days before this episode comes out. And so I think that you have approximately to find some pimps. Find some pimps and try this out and record it with a reaction so that I can throw it up on the interwebs.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Okay. And we can tell Chris whether he was right or not.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

That's right. And also, if you don't do it, the public will know.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

And dear God, we don't want the public knowing. Can't let down my public. So going into the magical energy. So here this specifically, as we said, the Aperol, literally on their site, they say it this uh that they have a vibrant, joyful energy of a hundred-year tradition of bringing people together. I love that because that means when they're making this Aperol the last hundred years, they've been putting the intent into this into this recipe. There's a lot of herbs in in it. Now they don't tell all the herbs, but based on the herbs that they do say, uh, there's protection, warding off negativity. There's a lot of that, which I think goes really well together because you're gathered together as a community and you're kind of sort of, I guess, protecting each other and getting rid of negativity together and bringing in joy. I I just I love this. And of course, orange is happiness and attracting prosperity, boosting energy, enhancing personal power, and it's used a lot in success spells. Um now for my version of the drink, this orange comes from the bitters, and and there's no orange in the orange liqueur that I that I use, but there is actual orange in the bitters that I used. So rhubarb, which Aperol um has rhubarb in it, um, is used in spells to create a protective, stable environment, frequently combined with other herbs or elements in uh in candle and candle spell work to protect from unwanted negative energy. And of course, this is also present in the tonic water uh for my version. Gentian, uh protection, strengthening courage, and breaking curses, deeply grounding. Gentian is also found in Sweet Vermouth, and then cinchona. I kept calling it chinchona, and I'm like, this is not right. Chinchillas.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Chinchillas. And then we find out some of that chinchilla fur that we collected earlier.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

I'm in the middle of reading a book where he keeps talking about chinchillas, but he keeps calling them enchiladas. You want to eat a chinchilla? No, he didn't want to eat the chinchilla. No, no, no. You do. No, I don't. You're like, this is you.

unknown 36:33

No.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Like projecting your desire to eat. No, they're too cute. I would never, never know. I used to have a chinchilla for a pet. So sweet.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Why don't you have it anymore?

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Cinchona, uh, which uh is all again also found in the tonic water. Uh, luck, protection from evil, and warding off curses. Prosecco, if you're using that, is for celebration and then lifting and energizing spells. And of course, the tonic water, the bubbles in the tonic water do the same for the lifting and energizing spells. And then if you have any sugar in it, uh sweetness, luck, attraction, and positivity. And then, of course, vermouth. Now I'm using the blanc. They also there's rouge. You could use rouge if you have that.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

There's so many vermouths, y'all. I did not realize.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

My brand that I use today is Dolan, and they say they use a blend of 32 plants and spices with basil for protect that's protection, prosperity, and love. Often used in kitchen witchery to attract money and purify spaces. Hibiscus, love, lust, passion, and enhancing divine feminine power. Gentian, cinnamon, artemesia. Apparently, Artemisia is a powerful feminine energy herb associated with the moon, Artemis, and the crone aspect. Used to enhance I know, right? I don't know anything about this herb. But now I'm obsessed with it already. Artemisia, yeah, and it's like uh it it it's used to enhance vivid dreams, induce lucid dreaming, and astral travel. It's mugwort. Yes, it's mugwort, yes. Artemisia is mugwort, yes. Clearing negative energy, aiding in divination, and deepening intuition. That's why vermouth is such an energetically such a great alternative to Aperol, especially um when you're adding orange in the mix. So there's all kinds of energetic stuff going on with Vermouth that you can lean into. We both love our versions of the drinks, and they're delightfully.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

I'm gonna be drinking this all summer, and that's why I have to figure out how to recreate this with homemade ingredients because I don't want to just be buying atherol. I don't know what's in the atherol that I bought, but I'm assuming I can make it better. I'm sure there's rhubarb. Maybe what we can do next is go talk to Emma. And I'm actually really excited about this. Emma is one of my oldest author friends from when I started publishing. And she was one of my I so I also edit for indie authors. Um my partner Chris and I do developmental and copy editing as well as proofreading for other indie authors, and Emma was one of my very first clients. And so I've known her for as long as I've been publishing. It was it was really exciting to talk to her. You haven't read anything by Emma, you're gonna want to after you finish listening to this interview. For sure. Such a good world builder. Yes. And she is so creative and so wonderful, and also so much fun. So I was I'm really excited to talk to Emma, and you guys are gonna love her. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

And if you don't, please don't. You will love her, like we love her.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

Y'all, I'm super excited today to welcome USA Today best-selling author Emma Ham. Who grew up in a small town surrounded by trees and animals. She writes strong, confident, powerful women who aren't afraid to grow and make mistakes. Her books will always be a little bit feminist and are geared toward empowering both men and women to be comfortable in their own inn. And, you know, I'm I have known Emma for a long time. Like 10 years. I love the pod. I don't even know how math works anymore, but I think it might be about 10 years. Wow. I've known Emma. So I'm pretty excited to have her on the pod today. Yay, welcome, welcome. You have to jump right in and ask the most important question first.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Okay, this is the most important question ever. I mean, well, I could I don't I don't mind, but I just want to emphasize that this is the most important question you will ever be asked ever in your life. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Do you have a favorite cocktail or mocktail, or does your character have one?

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Um, I do. It's actually the one that I had at my wedding in September. Um, so thank you. My uh my husband is sober, and I have recently kind of merged over to that as well, just for the fun of it. Um, and also because I don't know, I never really drank much, so it was just like it was either like red wine, and I could not tell the difference between a good red wine or not. I even went to Tuscany, and they were like, Can you taste this? And I was like, it tastes like wine. Um but I love an Aperol spritz, I always have, and um, Lyers, which is a great like mixer, they actually have it's I think they call it an Italian spritz, but if you put that with orange seltzer, it is like you can swap the alcoholic and non, and they they're exactly the same. Oh wow. Yeah, it's very good.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Also, what a great name for a non-alcoholic beverage. I mean Liars. I mean I was on the website earlier uh looking for flavor flavor profiles. I can't get it here, I can't find it um here in Portugal. But um, I was like, tell me more about this.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

And I'm like, this is a great name for a non-alcoholic. That's great. And I love that like there you can swap them out like that and still they still um I of course well, I mean, I'm sure I can get these things here in Portland, um, but I didn't have time, so I sort of invented a thing. I also don't I don't like Aperol, but if you take vermouth and put in some like orange bitters, it kind of has a similar-ish profile, I think. Well, I mean, no, but yes and no. I mean, I don't know. It tastes delicious. I put it with tonic water because that's how I roll. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

So I like an apparel spritz because it's a little bitter.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yeah, yeah. See, and I I'm not I don't love the bitter, but there's enough bitter in tonic water, like just enough for me to handle the bitter without, yeah. And of course it's alcohol because it's from Mouth, but you know, I yeah. It would be fun, it would be fun to try like try it non-alcoholic and see how it is.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Well, I'm gonna have a deep dive into Aperol and how it's made and how to make my own and how to make it non-alcoholic, and it takes like two weeks, so I did not do that. But tonic water is great in it because tonic water has the quinine. And so one of the main ingredients of Aperol also is the bark of the tree where the quinine can come. Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Fancy. I just went with the orange thing because it's like it has orange in it and rhubarb, and I'm like, I've got orange. I'm just drinking an Aperol spritz. They're so good. Mine is a fake app mine is a Jay uh I guess mine would be not Aperol, it would be a vermouth spritz-ish thing. We're spritzing. Yeah, we're spritzing.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

It also makes me feel like very fancy going to like I don't know what about the name feels fancy, but going to a restaurant and being like, I'll have an Aperol spritz. I like I like feel like one of those fancy ladies. I'm like, I don't know what Aperol is. I know nothing about it. I just know that my aunt ordered it once and I was like, this is so good.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

It feels fancy. Yeah, like you should be wearing a big hat and very high shoulder pads. You know?

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Okay. The hat, yes, shoulder pads.

unknown 44:42

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Shoulder pads and a sundress, though.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Yeah. Yes, like that. Yeah. Like a gunny sacks with a big yeah, with a big hat, and you're in an outdoor dining facility, very fancy, very chic.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Very Italian.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Yeah. These are very common drinks in the summer, uh, I guess here as well as all along the Mediterranean, like in southern Italy. Um, we like our summer pretty drinks apparently. I haven't lived here that long yet, so I don't I don't know. Well you'll find out. I'll let you know next summer.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Because we're it we're coming up in not too long. It'll be summer. So um Emma, tell us about your um your author journey. Like, you know, when when did you begin writing and sort of what kind of inspired you? Because you you were initially well, I think you have some books now that are traditionally published or or going to be, but you initially st started out um indie? Is that correct? Yeah, okay. Kind of walk us through that journey, how that came about.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Sure. I mean, so I s I've written a long time. Like I was in like late middle school, early high school writing on forums, like back in each other. Um not have been. Who knows how old the people were that I was like, I'm 15, and they were like, okay. So I was I was writing back. I did that like even throughout college because uh I mean, I grew up in Maine, I still live in Maine, it's a very small town, it's very um blue-collar. So when I went to school, I vividly remember having multiple English teachers say, Well, you can't be a writer because it's not a real job, you'll never make any money doing it.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

So I sort of moved into just character design and I was doing special effects prosthetics. So I've done like aliens and mermaid tales and blood rigs and all that kind of stuff. Cool. Um went to school for new media, which is a nothing major. It's a master nothing, but so it's you know, it's fine. It taught me very little, um, but it got me a bachelor's degree in three years, so whatever. Um and then I started working graphic design for an oil company. Um and I was I was pretty uh like mostly there as like a security situation, like just in case, oh sorry, something just in case something really went wrong, um, I was there. So I had a lot of time. And a friend on the forums was like, oh, we do this because we couldn't write a book by ourselves. And I was like, I think I could. So I wasn't doing it. I was expecting not doing anything else. So I wrote my first book um at that job. And then um, I remember making my first like$300 in a month, and I was just like, whoa. I mean, I was 23, I think, when I wrote that first book. So or 22, maybe I've I was very, very young. My mom edited it, and then I just published it. So you can't find it anymore. Uh I removed that from the internet. Um, but that was definitely like, oh my god, I made$300. Like at that age,$300 was so much money.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Oh, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

So uh I just sort of kind of did it on the side. I ended up in like paranormal romance, like urban fantasy for a little while. Um and then at that time I was working for a medical claims company, which is another soul-sucking job, and uh ended up giving me a ulcer at like 25.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

That was bad. I was working, so we we did the claims for the doctors, so I didn't work for a doctor's office, I worked for handled the claims, and um I was the person, sole person handling any issues that affected over a million dollars or over a thousand patients for them. Oh they were they were not just like, oh, like it's one pregnancy, it's like this entire practice's pregnancy claims were all denied this year. So they are owed 17 million dollars. Figure out how to get Anthem to pay that.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

It was yeah, it was very, very stressful for a very young person.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

And I won't, I won't share my thoughts on that particular company, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Yep. So you can imagine it was a lot of yelling and a lot of like muting the phone and just like while people were yelling and then unmuting and being like, I totally understand where you're coming from. A lot. Um so anyway, during that job, I didn't I wasn't really dating anyone. If you see cattails, that's just my cat. Um I love a cat. Yeah, and uh, and so I wrote Heart of the Fae while I was there, and it was just kind of like an outlet of like, geez, I need to not be so stressed all the time. Um and that was the first book I published that I was like, oh, I could like this is full-time money. Like I'm making more money off of books than I was working on these medical claims.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah. Uh not that they paid me very much to begin with, but I mean that is the upside to working at a job that doesn't pay you very well. It takes a lot less to go take this job and shove it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Exactly. Um, so then I I ended up uh doing like a part-time gig for a little while, and then I was like, all right, I'm gonna focus on full-time and and do this for real. Um and and yeah, I made it work, and I've been full-time for eight, nine years now, I think. Nice, right on. Awesome. Yeah, it's been a long time. And then most recently, um, it was actually two years ago, so it doesn't feel very recent to me, but um I signed with Simon and Schuster's gallery imprint, which was great. Uh, and I I sort of fell into that. My agent was um a close friend of mine had an agent, so I knew she knew that her agent was looking for more authors and was like, hold on, let me see if Emma's interested. Because I had signed a couple foreign rights deals that were not good. I should not have signed those. So that was I was I really only got an agent for that, and then I threw an idea out to Trad and um and the rest is is history. So now I have two books out with Simon and Schuster, and the last one is coming out. I mean, one came out literally seven days ago, and then uh the last one will come out in September.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Cool. And the one that came out that is the Trad published with Simon and Schuster, that's your romantic series that we're talking about. Yes, yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Cool. Yeah, so that's yeah, it's been a wild ride.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Nice. So we're talking more about your romantic series, the new one that um came out. Uh so tell us a little bit more about this this book, this series, like what inspired it, and all of that good stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

So that's the deathless one and the heartless one, and then the endless one is coming out in September. Um, I really wanted to write a book series on feminine rage and witchcraft. I love Love Lovecraft. I have my entire life. Um, so to be able to kind of do something a little more dark, a little more gritty, and also dive into the the reality of the feminine rage is not just like a split second. I see that a lot in in more popular traditionally published books where it's like all of a sudden, like just one thing happens to her, and she's just like a goddess that fights, and it's like the reality of feminine rage is just centuries and centuries of mistreatment and anger and frustration. Um so the first book is really more focused on just building her up into a place where she even feels like she's allowed to have that rage. It's uh you know, a princess who she is like it's not a spoiler, it's the first chapter. She's murdered on the day of her wedding by the man she's supposed to marry.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Oh, that that's not optimal.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

That's my that's the opener.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

I hate when that happens.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Surprise, right? So she makes a deal with the god of the dead. Um, to wait, I mean, kind of. The gods in this are different as well, but he's a death god who specifically his worshippers are witches. And he is trapped in another realm and is like, hey, we'll make a deal. I'll get you your kingdom back, but you gotta let me out. And she like unknowingly makes the deal and then is like, no, I want the deal off. But throughout the whole book, it's to kind of realize that she doesn't have any idea who she is, she doesn't know how to dress, she doesn't know what she likes to eat, she doesn't know anything about her kingdom, all of these things that have been kept safe, like away from her, because it's like, no, no, no, like you just sit in the corner and be pretty, you're gonna be great, honey. You're gonna do great. But everybody else around her has been manipulating her her entire life. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

So book one is that yeah, that's hardcore. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

I'm very much interested in feminine rage. Same most of the time, anyway. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

I mean, I think I always felt feminine rage, but I kept a pretty tight lid on it, and then I hit perimenopause. Perfect, yeah, and that's when it all comes out, and I'm really glad that younger generations are acknowledging it and identifying it and like doing something about it before they hit perimenopause. But like my mother's generation, it was just, oh, you're just crazy. It's just crazy lady brain, right? And and I'm like, oh no, this rate there this this rage is for real. Yes, it's hormonally driven, but that's just a release valve, I think, because the rage is real. I mean justified. Yeah. So yeah, I I'm like, yeah, I'm angry today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

There's a lot of reasons to be angry.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

There are a lot of reasons.

unknown 55:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Yeah, I'm so I'm really glad that I'm seeing this more and more in fiction, and I love that you're really addressing it not as just a one-time, oh, release and I'm fine. Uh, but that it's yeah, so that's awesome. I love that. Well, once I finish what um reading the mer the mer the merdude, the merguy, I'm gonna definitely check out that one because that sounds delicious.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

I would very much like you to retitle that book to The Merguy. The Merguy.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

The Merguy. All the time at conventions, too.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

People will be like, so your Merman series, and like, yeah, like I don't know why I can't, it's not a difficult title to remember, and yet I can't remember. So I'm like, you know, people get it wrong all the time.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

I get like pictures of the merman, I get like the P. I'm like, I don't care what you call it, I know exactly what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Oh, I love it. Oh, it's fun, it's just a fun um concept. And I was like immediately as soon as I started reading it, I was like, ooh, I'm in. Yeah, I am in. I like this.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Emma writes good story, she has excellent world building. Um and it's I mean, just a pleasure to read. For sure. And I have this series, this romantic series, sitting there waiting for me on my Kindle. And I haven't started it yet, but I'm very excited because I know it's gonna be another. But because I haven't read it, now I have more questions. So um, like where what is the second understanding is other world. Made up, but it is like, is it very much what one would expect? Like castles and yeah, kind of.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

I mean it's very steampunky, so it is like castles, but like women can wear pants. There are rifles. That sort of pants. Yeah, I know. The anchor.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

I could have clutched pearls if I was wearing some.

unknown 57:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

Yes, but um, yeah, so it so it's a little more steampunky. There's it's like a lot more on the side of like oil refineries and like there's so there's not it's like maybe like m 1880s-ish. Okay. Like not quite fully like women are fine to do everything, but um like carriages are normal oil lamps on the street normal.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Um, but like very much like an amalgamation of kind of different time periods. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

I like that because like I know that well your your Rudude series kind of has that same as I'm reading it, I'm almost imagining underwater steampunk as I'm yeah. So you kind of have that through your through your world building, I think.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

Yeah, I I just originally started writing like kind of more historical fantasy romance, but then sort of realized that like there's so much constriction in historical romance, and like even just tiny things, if you get it wrong, somebody's gonna pick that up. Like I had like cottages and they were like, no, it wouldn't have been cottages, it would have been like thatch roof things, but like very specific types of thatch roof, and like and I uh it was just like I didn't even consider that like it wasn't it like uh yeah, so it was just a lot. Um, and and I learned from that that like hey, like historical romance, you have to like embroil yourself in the history of that time, and you gotta know like what buttons people are putting on. Like, are there even buttons? And I just I can't, I don't like to constrict myself like that. And I think it's more fun when you can have like pistols but also dragons or um oil lamps, but also horse-drawn carriages. I mean, it it did exist in our in our time period, but for a very like brief moment until the industrial revolution kind of blew everything open.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's so cool. I do love good world building.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

Yeah, internet, because here we are.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Yes. So obviously I just like to destroy the effects of the industrial revolution in my books. So um I'm like, sorry. You're gone now.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

No more patriarchy, no more capitalism, no more no, okay. Um we we won't go down those rabbit holes. Uh okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

The politics part of Whispers of the Deep.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

Oh, I can see it coming. Oh so uh so we've got so this main it's a trilogy. Yes. Two are out, and the one is coming, and assume I'm presuming that you need to read these in order or you're gonna be real confused.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

Same same couples, so yeah, you do. Awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Um so what is the most interesting or unusual research you've done for a book?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Uh so I, when I was working at that medical claims company, um, was doing research on witchcraft. Okay, another book with witchcraft in it. Um that was The Faceless Woman. But a friend of mine who at the time I thought she was just a practicing witch, she was um a Satanist, which is not as scary as it sounds. Right. Um, but she gave me a book on witchcraft, and she was like, These are real spells, you can read through them and all of that. And that book came with a guest um that she did not warn me about.

unknown 1:01:12

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

And it was like I believe in ghosts to some extent, but I have never um been haunted until that book was in my house.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

Yep, and it was very uncomfortable. Uh, I vividly remember multiple nights waking up with a man like leaning over me.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

Yeah, that would be uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

Yeah, and to the point where it like happened, and I would be like, okay, like wake up. I would like pinch myself a couple times really hard and be like, okay, you're awake. What do you hear? What do you see? What do you smell? Like, what do you feel? Like fully wake up. And then I would look to the side and I could literally see a handprint in the memory foam next to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

Okay, this is it was not okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Yeah, it was it was pretty bad. And I remember one night turning the light on and then turning it back off and being like, okay, he's gone, and then looking and seeing he was just like he had just moved and was like crouched next to the bed. Like, oh, she clearly didn't like that. Um, so I talked with her and she was like, Yeah, that can sometimes happen. Um, just ask him not to do that anymore. So I did, and after that, for as long as I had the book, it was like orbs, like gray orbs floating over my bed.

unknown 1:02:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

Um, I had an ex-boyfriend who came over to stay with me and who like got super freaked out because he closed the fridge door and there was just a whole ass man. Sorry, I don't know if I can swear, um on the other side of the door. And like he he used to be like, I won't be alone in this. My mom has taken baths in that apartment when I was on like vacation, and she would be watching my cats or whatever, and they had a nice tub. So she would get in the tub and she'd like see people walk by the bathroom door, like him. And it's the same figure, everybody says the same thing. He is wearing a bowler hat, it's the same person.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Oh my gosh. I would have liked a pre-heads up of sometimes this can happen. This can happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

Like you might yeah, you might find a dude with a bowler hat hanging over your bathtub. Would have been a good warning.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Yeah, would have been a great warning. Um he did stick around with me when I gave the book back, but then eventually, like he he's not in my current house or anything like that. So I I think he eventually went back to the book or wherever he was originally attached to. But like I used to talk alone with a cat, so I would just like talk to him all the time. So I think like she said her opinion was that he had kind of made a little bit of an attachment just because I was polite and talked to him. And he was probably family.

unknown 1:03:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

As opposed to my situation with the I bought, okay, I bought this really great um photo of a little boy, not related to me, at like a garage sale. Um in I think it was 2020 because I was like, I'll do anything to get out of the house with a garage sale. And and it was like this old sepia toned type thing. And it was it was crazy. But that's why I liked it. So I brought it home and I hung it in the house, and then like shortly after that, um, my daughter's room started having like weird electrical things, like the light bulbs would just always burn out, but not if somebody else came in and used that light. And her CD player that had her like relaxation CDs would just start sometimes for no reason, sometimes when it wasn't plugged in. Um and then I was like, okay, great, we're just gonna leave this behind when we sold a house and moved in preparation for being to Portugal. I brought I hadn't made the connection with the picture in the timing, so I brought the picture and like things kind of escalated from there. Yeah, that was wild. It got real weird and a little violent. And then eventually I took the photo out, and there was like a lock of hair and a depth written on the back of the photo. Oh, it was way crazier than I realized. Like here's like something attached to this.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

Yeah, a photo is one thing, an actual body part essentially is another thing entirely.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:31

Yeah. And it was like a, I mean, I don't, it wasn't a death photo. I've seen death photos. Right, right. And it was definitely like uh this kid dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

It was a memorial type of situation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

And um here's the hair to go with a photo and no name. Just dates of birth and hair. I did not bring it to portion.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Oh, that I'm glad. I'm glad. Yes. He needs just to stay away from you.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

We are not skeptics here about your weird ghostly experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

No, no. Because even though I've never been haunted, I have seen orbs, uh, an orb before.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

Uh, and it was very uh it was actually very cool because I was in this really old house back east and the the oldest part of the house was from like the 1600s. It was the kitchen. And the it had like a stone step that literally dipped like a U because so many people had walked over it over all the centuries. It was amazing. The part of the house I was in had been built in the 1800s, and I was sitting alone, the only light was from like a little lamp and then the fire. And I was just sitting, just sort of staring at the flames, letting my mind just sort of go blank. And then all of a sudden I just saw this white orb pass along the ceiling. And it just and it was kind of it was moving with purpose, but not fast. Just at the pace of maybe a woman striding along briskly. And I I got a very female energy from it. Like I like literally turned and looked and just watched it, and I'm just sitting there going, and I just went through the room and disappeared through the wall. And but I definitely got a very female energy from it, like she'd been the mistress of the house kind of a situation, you know, and she was just like she it was like she was aware we were there, like that there were humans in in her house, but it didn't bother her. She was just checking to make sure all was going well. Just passing through. Just passing through. Everybody's fine. Good hostess, yes. It was it was wild. That's really the only time I've had that happen, but um anyway, bygones. Uh yes, so that was your research was uh getting a a witchcraft book and then being haunted. That's excellent research.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:28

Yeah, I mean a witchcraft around like the world is so interesting and different. It really is. I love doing any research into what's what's different.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Same. I love it. Because obviously, uh as you can probably tell, uh mine is mine's mostly like Western European witchcraft specifically, Celtic, Germanic, a little bit of like well, I've got Finnish in me, so a little bit of like Scandinavian, um, but and Amy's much more just the tail.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:04

Sorry. She's impossible to control. She was feral and now she's not, and now we she owns the house.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

That seems fair. That seems okay. That seems right. She deserves it. Yes, she does. Yes. Um so if your series, this new series, let's say, was picked up for television, what actor would you want to play your main character?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:31

Um uh it's uh Odessa Avian, Odessa Avian, uh, would be Jessamine for sure. She is a very, very cool actress just in general. Um and then for Elric, I'm not really sure. Um he so when I originally designed him and like the stuff for like the cover and that kind of stuff, I gave them a young Michael Fastbender.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

But nobody looks like Michael Fassbender, like all you're getting is like Jacob Ballorty, who's very attractive, but not my time, and then like Timothy Chalamet, and like like nobody has that kind of like chiseled look of a fastbender game.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

So yeah, there is I am on board with young Michael Fastbender, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:29

We just need a little bit of uh we need a TARDIS, and then we can just spring young Michael Fastbender to the now so he can play. And then we'll send him back. It's fine, no problem. No harm.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:46

No, barely anybody recognizes him anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:51

Um, do you have like so we've talked about your main characters for this, but do you have like some pretty important supporting characters that that we need to know about that are because I like okay, haven't read it, do not obviously we don't want spoilers, but there's the the the husband, the the murder husband, the guy who murders people at the altar. Terrible. Is he part of the book for the whole series?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:16

Yeah, so the first book, not so much, um, because that it's he thinks she's dead, so he says, peace out, I'm going home. Um the whole point of it is that they are marrying because there is a plague in her kingdom that he's like, I can for sure help. And they're like, Awesome, we'll do this. And he's like, Cool. Plague's affecting my kingdom too. Yours is a dumping ground for me now. Uh, and I don't give a shit about any of your people. I'm gonna go back home. Thanks. Nice guy. Real plus. Yeah, this guy sucks, but that's like not the whole story for him. So the second book um it really expands on his reasons why and like what his plan is, and then the last book is much more involved with Leon. Um but the side characters that everybody really loves and that like I hope people really love are the Coven themselves. So the first book you meet Sybil, she's the like, let me teach you how to be a witch character, and the last remaining witch that's still worshiping and sacrificing to the deathless one, who is the main male character. So she's kind of his last hope, too, because the gods in this world have no power unless they are worshipped, and it's very much a um more patron deity kind of uh relationship between the two of them than it is like all-powerful god always has magic, like they wither away and can die. Um, all the gods are dead, other than Elric, but um he, the deathless one himself, is the last remaining god, and he's locked in another world, so they've lived in a godless world for over 200 years, and that means that Sybil is over 200 years old.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:04

I already like her.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

Yes, awesome. She's so cool, and she's she's just like such a fun character to have around because she is very much that character of like, don't do that, and they're like, I'm gonna do that, and then something happens, and she's like, I told you not to do that. I know what I'm talking about, but that's fine. She's like very much like the like the fuck around and find out mom of like, oh, you don't want to wear a jacket outside in the cold.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:28

Okay, that's fine. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

Like, which I love writing that kind of character. She's just awesome. Um, and then the second book expands on the coven significantly, where we get um kind of like the more fragile character who really like questions herself a lot. We have like the really hard hard-headed one who's just like so strong, but like is is like an old woman for a small amount of time. Um, but yeah, it just expands exponentially to uh the deathless one finally getting a coven again. But his whole story is that he is sacrificed by his coven over and over again. So they make sacrifices to him, they bloat him up with power, and then they kill him, and all that power comes back to them. And then eventually they'll have a gravesinger born who can resurrect him, and then they repeat the cycle because they'll eventually run out of magic, so they need to do that again. But he's a sacrificial lamb more than a god.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

I love this. Brutal, and also I love it, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:34

Yeah, he's a cruel character, and that's like my favorite part of the series is him because he is not an alpha hero. He is very much a character who has been massively abused, but also is doesn't recognize that he has this trauma because he's choosing to do it. He like genuinely wants to be needed by someone, and if that means that he has to die and go through this like really horrible ceremony over and over again and endure that pain to make them happy, that means somebody needs him, so he's gonna do it. Wow. Yeah, hug him. Wonderful like character, and then to have Jessamine who's like, That's not okay, I'm not gonna do that to you. And he's just like, You will someday, you you absolutely will. That's your purpose as a gravesinger is to resurrect me eventually again, and then you kill me. That's what your job is, and she's like, I'm not gonna do that, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:33

That may be my job, but I quit.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:36

You're right, you guys do that, and like that that's kind of the cool um matchup between the two of them is is her refusing to sacrifice somebody that she cares about, and him saying, Well, you're gonna have to eventually, so I'm gonna keep this distance, but it's really hard because I really like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:56

That sounds amazing. I can't wait. Okay, but I need I have to read The Murdude first.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:01

So that's a very different vibe, that book. Oh, just ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:10

I just love it. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

I just write in other genres besides like um the fantasy type genres, or are you just like, are you strictly fantasy?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:22

I do strictly fantasy. I mean, it is definitely arguable. Yeah, it it's definitely arguable that the Whisper series is more sci-fi than it is fantasy because there is no like magic. And I do think it at its core, fantasy does require some elements of magic, and the the other like Whispers is is not really that so but I I still market it as fantasy romance, like it kind of like it rides the line in between because they are mermin, so it's not but the idea is that they've been in the depths of the ocean and we just haven't found them yet. So it yeah, mostly, but it's all fantasy or fantasy adjacent, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:04

It still has that vibe of being fantasy paranormal, so you know you could argue it's paranormal because you don't really need magic per se for it to be paranormal. Yes, um, but yeah, yeah, it definitely has still that vibe, so it goes I think it goes well with that. But that's cool. Yeah, very cool. Instead of me all over the place.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:31

In the beginning I was all over the place. I even had a contemporary um pen name for a little while, but I I just can't I don't do contemporary justice.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:41

Yeah, I always want to like I don't know, kill somebody, but like magically or something, you know. So yeah. But I do historical murder is really the hardest part about not writing fantasy.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:59

True.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

Well, I mean, I do write murder books, so I get to murder people regardless of whether there's any sort of fantasy, but I prefer historical stuff or like paranormal stuff to straight contemporary. And even with my historical stuff, there have been times where I like kind of just want to throw in something vaguely magical, and then I'm like, oh wait, I can't really do that here.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:25

How do I explain that?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:32

Maybe it'll be after you.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

I'll probably I'll I'll probably do a exactly. I already have people after me over like money situations, and I'm like, who cares? Yeah, you know, whatever. But yeah, I I might have to do a crossover and like I I've been thinking about doing a crossover where it's a little bit of magic with my historical because technically speaking they can be in the same world, so why not? Love it.

unknown 1:19:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:04

I mean what are your plans for this year? Yeah, how many books you're gonna write and all that good stuff. Five thousand. Five thousand books.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:14

This is my like break of a year, kind of. Um, so with my traditionally published contract, I obviously have three months um on either side where I can't publish anything. They were gracious enough to June 1st allow me to publish a book, so that will be the third in my trolls series. Um uh, but otherwise it's really focused on those two trad books, and then maybe in December I can sneak something in, but January is really where I'm like hitting hard. Thanks, Sarah J. Moss, for probably wrecking that. Um I'm gonna do it before her, so hopefully people want like something fun right before.

unknown 1:19:49

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:50

Right before the world is Avatar again.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:52

Um but yeah, they're gonna want something to tide them over till that comes out, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:01

So yeah, so 2027 is my big year because that will be my spin-off series of Whispers of the Deep. Um, so that goes above land, which will be very fun for people. And then um I have I I'm still kind of in limbo. I'm on submission again for traditional. So if somebody picks up that book that's on sub, that would probably come out end of 2027. Um but if nobody picks it up, it'll come out a lot earlier. Because I'll just do it myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:30

I mean, that's a great thing, isn't it? We're no longer locked into this whole oh, if I don't find anybody to publish this, I'm at the this is it, this is the end. It's like, no, you can we can do what we want. Do what you want. Yeah, I love it. And finally, where can people uh find out more about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:50

Uh pretty much every social media. Um, Instagram is probably my biggest. I'm an author there.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:57

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:58

Um TikTok, I'm on, Facebook I'm less on, but I exist there.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:05

I also exist there.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:07

Yeah, it's not like much going on there. I don't know. I I just haven't put a lot of into it. Um, I have a newsletter, I do all kinds of fancy special editions on my website if people like special editions. Yeah, I'm kind of all over.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:24

Yeah, I do like special. Well, I just say that one of the things that just really has always impressed me besides your writing is how well you do your social media. Like you are a pro and you have been like forever, for almost as long as I've known you, you've been so good at it, and it's just really impressive to see.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:44

Oh, thanks. I think the the trick for social media is to just not care anymore. Like I'll literally just be like just out of nowhere with a hand holding a book, like he is too, and it's just like we go from there, or like his he's pierced or whatever, and it's just like I think the the more unhinged you are and the more you're comfortable you are just being weird in front of a camera. They connect with it. Um it's like that that TikTok sound that goes around like she's crazy, but she's free, and like that's that's sort of how I've adopted my my marketing at this point to just be like, I don't care what people think of me, I'm probably never gonna meet you anyway. So if you find this like weirdly offensive to you, or you find my body offensive or my personality, that's a you problem, not a me problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:35

I love that. That's a great attitude to have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:39

I always think signing is anything coming up before?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:42

Oh, me, yeah, I got all kinds of conventions. Um, so I'm gonna be at a polycon, I'll be at MonsteroticaCon, I'll be at Signs with Spice in Bangor. Um, I just did my little mini book tour. So I was in New England, I did Boston, New Hampshire, and Maine. Um, and that's about it. And then I think I'll just like say it here so that somebody will eventually find it and come back to me because they're gonna be like, what? Uh 2027, I think I'm gonna take a bit of a break from conventions. Um, they're a lot, they're exhausting. I love them. Love meeting readers, but I am struggling a little bit with the menti bees. So um I need a break from the like business side and just to sit down and write and just enjoy writing again and not be like so many voices squawking in my ear.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:32

That is a very healthy way to do that, and absolutely healthy, healthy, healthy, healthy, healthy, healthy.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:39

Wow. I should write those down. Yeah. Healthy.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:43

Yeah, I had to stop doing I love conventions, but I had physically I can't do them anymore. But um, so sometimes I get a little FOMO.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:54

Yeah, I definitely will. I know I'm gonna be looking and being like, oh, because like I mean, I was talking to my husband about it last night. Like the like meeting readers, talking to readers on Instagram, like I think for people looking outside from our business, it's like, oh, like, why are you taking on all that mental labor to like be messaging people all the time? I mean, I have over 43,000 followers on Instagram, and every single person that messages me gets a personalized message back, everyone. But it's this like deep feeling of gratitude that literally any of them exist, and it is so incredibly special every single time I get to meet them or talk to them. Like, if somebody goes out of their way and messages me, they like my book, it's the coolest thing on the planet. It's still it's like never going to wear off for me of how much I appreciate every single one of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:40

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:41

So it's gonna be hard to take a break, I think, because I do love to see them so much. And I feel like like all of them are my friends, which is so probably parasocial and weird. But I like I meet them and I'm like, I've talked to you for years on social media, and we finally get to meet in person, and like I know their dog, and like I know their like boyfriend that became their husband. They sent me their wedding photos. Like, it's the coolest, like weird connection that we all get from across the world. I mean, I have some people in China who just sent me wedding photos, and I'm like, Oh, nice, how sweet! Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, it's just um it's always a deep feeling of gratitude that I get to do any of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

So I still, you know, it's been it's been um 15 years since I published my first book, and I still get that giddy feeling when somebody says to me or you know, sends me a message, I love your books, I've read all your books, you're my favorite author. And I'm like, wait, how am I somebody's favorite author?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:45

Yeah, like what? I just sit in my house. Like I haven't showered in five days.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:51

I'm in my PJs, yeah. And like, how is this even a thing? Uh it's so wild to me, like to this day. It never gets old. It doesn't. It's just one of the best parts of like, and like when somebody sends you a message that like, you know, I've been really, really down, and your books have just like they just you know made me feel so much better, or you know, they got me through recovery after my surgery, or you know, I just got divorced, and this is what got me through. I mean, those kinds of things, like it's like if I can help one person in that way, it's like I've done my job, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:39

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:41

And I pretty great job. It is a pretty great job. It's it's it's a it's a difficult, it's the hardest best job I've ever done.

unknown 1:26:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:53

It's a lot better than medical claims, I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:57

Oh, I believe it. Oh my gosh. Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:01

I can't imagine you spend a lot of time wishfully, wistfully thinking about um that no.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:10

Oh, if only I could go back and get another ulcer.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:22

Oh, jeez.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:24

Those perms played, those are fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:29

Is there anything else you want us to know about you or your writing or your books before we say goodbye?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:35

I have seven cats.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:37

Oh my goodness gracious. A great number of cats. That is a lot of cats.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:42

Yep. I only have three, and now I'm jealous.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:46

That's my fun fact. Whenever people are like, What's your fun fact? I'm like, I have seven cats, and then people look at me. There you like weeds out the cool people. Like some people are like, that's not that many, and then some people are like, Why do you have more than one? Like you can.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:02

I worked for a chiropractor. They had nine. Oh there were cats everywhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:09

So like every time I turned around, there was a cat. And like, you know, I don't have to annoy them.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:20

Yes, because cats only like they only like so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:24

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:25

I mean, I mean, I will admit it does make my sinuses itch just thinking of that many cats, but oh my god, how cute. And you are black, that is the perfect witchy cat.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:36

Yeah, she's great. Yeah, it's like literally anytime I want to grab a cat, I can just like pick up a cat and annoy them, and then they don't get overstimulated by the um I love her.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:47

I finished her book now because we taught we recorded that interview a while back, and I I have now finished her book, and it was delightful.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:01

Story for like creepy witchy book story too is so awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:06

Now it is time for us to pull an oracle card. So I've shuffled, I have this deck, this new deck, and I'm so excited to use it. Now, um this is based on the old Raider White um decks. It's a playing card size, my friends. Yeah. That one. Oh, I'm such a lunatic. Okay, um I got the my friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:38

So is this based on the right or white deck?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:42

Yes, this is based on the right or white.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:45

Right or wait, in fact, we don't even know what it's called. We don't even know. Right or wait. Right or wait. My friend Christine bought this for me for my birthday. She knows me well. Um, hi Christine. I know she's listening because she tells me she always does. So I am going to pull from this deck. So I've already um sort of shuffled it. And brand new deck. So we're just gonna have a ten of sticky things. I don't know. Sticks? Oh no. Wands. I am unfamiliar. Ten of sticky things. Sticky things. Um, so we've got here this dude in medieval clothing. I mean, I'm assuming it's a dude because he's wearing dude style clothes from the medieval times. And there's a little village in the background, and he's kind of pushing up these sort of stick things up into a little uh I think those are swords. No, these are not swords. These are definitely stick things. No, they're like they're like long staves or long staffs with like little um little uh like um leaves kind of sprouting out of them at the top.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:00

Okay, so it's rods or wands or whatever then.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:02

Rods or wands, something like that, and it's a ten. Burden, extra responsibility, hard work, and completion. Okay. Yes, a man carrying a large bundle of sticks toward a small town a short distance away. It's heavy, he's carrying it, but he's almost at his destination and will soon be able to release the heavy weight he's bearing. You're the Ten of Wands notes that you're taking on extra burden, a heavier workload, or a greater responsibility. Even though it's weighing you down and making things tougher for you, you understand it's only temporary, so you're willing to put in the hard work now to accomplish your goal and reap the rewards later, which is so interesting because I've been talking lately to a lot of like fairly new authors who are like, you know, in that we've all been there where you know you put out so many books and and nothing is happening, and or you've got a series a new series that you started and it's not taking off like you wanted, and they're like, I mean, they're frustrated, which is totally understandable, and they're not sure if they're doing things right. And and that's kind of what the whole business is with writing, you you put a lot of work at the beginning to get things going. For example, you may work extra hours to save up for a family holiday, or you may help out a friend with a with moving house, knowing they'll return the favor when you move. Uh, or you may care for a sick family member, adding to your responsibilities at home, but knowing that your loved one appreciates it. Sometimes the ten of wand appears when you're unconsciously thinking about taking on extra responsibility and find yourself, you know, kind of feeling weighed down and burnt out.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:58

And it is very much a time, like if you see Ten of Wands, this is a time to really evaluate how you feel about your your workload or the load that you've taken on yourself. Is it okay? Are you okay? But you also have to know this is temporary bitches. That's almost like you also have to know this is temporary witches.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:21

Temporary witches. Yeah, this is a temporary situation. This is not about something long-term. This is like it has a purpose. You know, you might want to assess this and like maybe uh set some priorities or use some time management uh so to determine where best to spend your time and which tasks you can kind of drop for the moment. But the good news, this is the good news, it's the ten of the tens in tarot represent like the completion of a cycle. So with the Ten of Wands, the end of this is in sight. You've been pushing yourself to the limits, working really hard toward your goal, and you're taking those final steps on the path of realizing your dreams. So you you might collapse in a heap when you get there and need a like need a good spa day or something, but or a nap, but it's gonna be worth it, it's gonna be well and earned. And of course, you know, it that also means that maybe that might come with some new responsibilities. So uh reaching that goal, maybe learn to let go or delegate of some of that to free you up to still enjoy life. This is it's a little bit of a warning to make sure you don't just let yourself get swamped.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:45

A little bit of a warning and then a little bit of a notice that it's the end is in sight.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:48

The end is in sight, it's coming up, you're gonna get there. So that's kind of interesting because I do feel like this is appropriate for this uh sort of time of year right now, this cycle that we're in, this going from Aries into Taurus and all of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:06

Um, because I don't think we've ever pulled a card that we're we're like, this makes zero sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:12

I know. What the what? Um, yeah, because like I've got one of the things that I'm doing at this, so this is April 7th when this comes out, and I launched my Kickstarter, my first ever Kickstarter on um April 1st. So it's I've got two more weeks. I did a 21-day, so I got two more weeks. So I'm kind of in the middle of that as we're putting this out. Um, as you're putting this out, shall we be clear. Um, where I'm kind of coming toward the moving toward the end of that. And I have a feeling based on I don't know yet, but I have a feeling based on people that I know that have done Kickstarters, I'm probably gonna want a nap afterward. Or so or several. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:04

Well, please don't stay awake for 21 days straight.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:07

No, that's not the plan. But I'm really excited because I'm excited to learn and experience because we have discussed doing a special Kickstarter for the podcast for something very special. We won't talk about that. We're not gonna tell you yet. Uh uh. We're just putting it out there in the universe.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:27

Alrighty, so Shaya, where are people gonna find information about Emma's books and your deck and all the good things?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:35

Well, Amy, I am so glad you asked that question. You can find all the linked links in the show notes. Yeah. Now we know, of course, that Emma's books are on uh Amazon, so if you search for Emma Ham on Amazon, you'll be able to find them easily. But we're gonna put all of those links in the show notes so you can also just scroll to the bottom and click on those links. You can also follow Emma on Instagram and also we're gonna put the recipes and the links to our Instagram, all of that good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:13

Everyone, we're so excited that you are here with us. Yes. Spend time with us on our podcast. Yes, so please like, subscribe, follow, share with your friends and enemies, and teachers and students. Not if you're an elementary school teacher, though, don't share with your student. No. And you're awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:35

You're awesome. We love you. Thank you so much for following us. Don't forget, if you have a special, like little daily ritual, a little everyday magic, please share. Let us let us know and you know, leave a comment and let us know. Also, please share pictures of your pets. Pictures of your pets. Pictures of your pets. I like pictures of pets. Alright, we'll see you next time. Take care.