Episode 27: Oddballs, Cartomancy, and an interview with DELLE B. DIVINE!

This week's episode is all about Tarot and Oracle decks. Shéa and Amy delve into the difference between the two before interviewing Cartomancer Extraordinaire Delle!

So grab a cocktail (might we recommend an Empress Gin French 75 or a Bergamot Old Fashioned?) and settle in!

Y'all - the references here are bananas. We talked about so many books and card decks and other things - hopefully, we didn't miss anything.

Find Delle!

https://www.instagram.com/babetriarch/

https://www.instagram.com/dellebdivine/

Check out the books & authors Delle mentioned

Queering the Runes by Siri Vincent Plouff https://www.sirivincentplouff.com

https://www.instagram.com/siri.vincent.plouff

A Practical Guide for Witches by Ylva Mara Radziszewski https://www.instagram.com/bimboyaga

Secrets of Romani Fortune Telling by Jezmina Von Thiele and Paulina Stevens https://www.romanistanpodcast.com

Tarot & Oracle Decks Delle talked about 

Goddess Tarot - Kris Waldherr - https://www.instagram.com/kriswaldherr/

Modern Witch - Lisa Sterle - https://www.instagram.com/lisasterle

The Crow Tarot - M.J. Cullinane - https://www.instagram.com/crowtarotmjcullinane/

 Next World Tarot - Cristy C. Road - https://www.instagram.com/croadcore/

Star Spinner Tarot by Trungles - https://www.instagram.com/trungles

Other decks/tarot resources

Unicorn Tarot - Suzanne Star & Liz Hilton

Wild Unknown - Kim Krans  https://kimkrans.com

Nouveau Goddess Oracle Deck: https://www.etsy.com/listing/4392319596/the-nouveau-goddess-oracle-and-major

The Cracked Amethyst - Jessica Bott: https://www.instagram.com/thecrackedamethyst

Biddy Tarot - http://biddytarot.com

Yoga with Susanna Barkataki - https://www.instagram.com/susannabarkataki/

DRANKS!

Bergamot Old Fashioned (Energy: prosperity, self-confidence, joy)

Ingredients:

• 2 oz Bourbon 
• ½ - 1 oz Earl Grey syrup* (to taste)
• 2 dashes orange bitters

Garnish: Orange peel and maraschino Cherry

 Directions:

1. Add all ingredients to a rocks glass filled with ice.
2. Give it a stir.
3. Express (squeeze) the orange peel over the top of the glass, rub it along the rim, and drop it into the drink. Add cherry (or two).

*Earl Grey Syrup: Combine 1 cup hot water and 1 cup sugar and stir until dissolved. Drop in 2 Earl Grey tea bags while still hot. Allow to cool. Cap and store in fridge. (You can leave the tea bags in for 24 hours to get max results).

Empress Gin French 75 (Energy: Protection, Divination, Renewal, Love, Luck, and Celebration)

Ingredients:

• 60 mL (2 oz) Empress gin (or English dry made purple with butterfly pea flowers) 
• 30 mL (1 oz) simple syrup
• 30 mL (1 oz)  lemon juice
• Espumante (or bubbles of your choice)

 Directions:

1. Add gin, simple syrup, and lemon juice to a cocktail shaker with ice.
2. Shake vigorously until the outside of the shaker is cold - about 20 seconds.
3. Strain the cocktail into a couple glass.
4. Top with espumante

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Thanks - the Caftan Coven

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the Thing is a Podcast Podcast with Amy Sissel. That's me and my delightful co-host, Shane McLeod. That's me. We are USA Today best-selling authors of paranormal women's fiction, among other things. And this podcast is brought to you as always by the Captain Coven.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Woohoo! Today we're chatting with Del, a super awesome human slash genius tarot reader from Portland. What is Portland, Shaya? Um, okay, so like you know how you're in Portugal, but in a place called Porto? Yeah. So if you go across the oceans and then across the continents, there's a place called Portland. Not Porto, Portland. It's a very cool city in a place called Oregon, and it's very green, and the trees are right now trying to kill me. So yeah. So it's a place with murder trees. It's a place with murder trees, but it's cool. And we'll also be talking about the usual drinkies, witchy things, and general shenanigans like murder trees.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yes, clearly, I can't keep the general shenanigans until after the introduction. Sorry. Full of shenanigans.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

It's it's pretty it's pretty on brand. So that's cool. But I do have an excellent affirmation today. You ready? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Good things happen to me every single day.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Damn skippy, they do.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Damn skippy. Like we said in the um, I think we s we talked about this a little bit in our interview with Dell. Whether you think you can or you can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Or think you can't. You're right.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

We don't know who that quote is attributed to, and we will not be looking it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

We will not be discussing that. Yes. The point of this quote that I love about this quote, good things happen to me every single day. Because good things do, even when bad shit is going on. But if you only focus on the bad shit, that's just all your life becomes. So even when bad shit is going on, you have to pay attention to the good shit. So that's correct. Because good stuff happens. And I think the more and more that you focus on that, the more you kind of get in your life on a like at least a personal level of good stuff. And I've always kind of felt that way. So I'm like, good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Well that's kind of why it's recommended sometimes to keep a gratitude journal, especially if you're having trouble finding things to be grateful for. Yeah. Just looking for those teeny tiny little things that are that are awesome. Um about ten years ago, I started a um 100 awesome days. Where every day I took a picture of something awesome on my Instagram on hashtag. And I didn't hit every day in a hundred days, but I hit a lot of them. And it was a pretty great thing to to now when I see it like in my memories, like my time hop memories, not like in my mind's. It comes up in my mind. I wish it did more. But it's stuff like, oh, today I saw a cool leaf or whatever, you know? Yeah. You're looking for those little things, the little everyday things that are good.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

And even it's just today I woke up, today I got out of bed. Sometimes that's a win in and of itself.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

And that's a good thing to wake up. That's a good thing to happen.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

That's a good thing to happen. Yay! Oh, I'm so glad you woke up today, Shannon. Thanks. I'm glad you woke up today, Amy. It could just be, you know, the food that you're eating, or that you have Captain Crunch cereal, or whatever your favorite cereal is. You have Captain Crunch cereal? I don't, because I don't actually, I'm not actually a big Captain Crunch aficionado because it tears up the roof of my mouth. And I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah, it's not good for the inside of a mouth.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Really is not.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Like peanut butter Captain Crunch. I really like the flavor of it, but I don't like how it how it cuts up my mouth. Also, I've never seen Captain Crunch here, so also I don't eat cereal anymore. Uh it's not really my deal. I will stir some high fiber muesli into my yogurt of a morning.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, my friend Christine gave me some granola from um Hawaii, and it is so frickin' good, and I eat it with like some Greek yogurt and some fresh blueberries, and it's like angels in clouds.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

I do love granola or muesli with Greek yogurt and fruit and a little bit of honey drizzled in, like some local honey. Yes, so welcome to like old ladies talk about fiber breakfast. What? This is so, so random.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Wow. So, Shaya, tell me.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yes, yes. Before we talk to Del.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

What else are we going to talk about today?

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Well, I thought since Del is coming on to talk to us about um how they got into reading Tarot, they also use Oracle decks. Um, and I've gotten this question a lot from people when I talk about them. What is the difference between tarot and Oracle? And of course, when somebody asks me a a question like that, I always just go, b b, b.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

I mean, that's my informative as it could be.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Right. So I thought it would just really something simple so that people know the difference, because sometimes it is like I wondered what the difference was myself. So um a lot of times I'll have to end up going like on my phone and like reading them the answer, and then they're like, Yeah, you are super knowledgeable.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

And to be clear, Shaya knows the difference.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

I do. I just I could just never explain the difference very well.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Um, we're here to articulate it for you today.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

We are here to articulate it for you because so I'm gonna give you the easiest explanation ever. It's the TLDR version, which is basically tarot cards follow a set system, whereas Oracle cards do not. So it's not about the themes, the art, or even the number of cards, it's about the system and history. Tarot cards date back like for many, many centuries, and Oracle decks are a fairly modern invention. Now, that's not to say an Oracle deck can't follow a system, but there's no set system for Oracle decks.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Not every Oracle deck that you get, but almost every Oracle deck that you get is gonna be a little bit different. Um I have a series of Oracle decks, the Seasons of the Witch by Julia Diaz, and they all follow the same system. Yes, but that's within this certain set. But they don't follow the same system as like my North Static Rune Oracle. I'm just looking off over here where all my decks are. That's really, I think, what you were saying about they can follow a system. Yeah, like tarot. But it's not going to from creator to creator.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

If you pick up two oracle decks from the same creator, it might follow their system because they've invented that system themselves. If you pick up from two different Oracle creators, they're gonna be two different systems. Tarot, of course, like I said, it has a very, very old history to it. It dates back to like I want to say the 1400s or something like that. And it it was a initially it was kind of like a card game, and then the but the Romani people used it for telling fortunes. And that so there's this whole a lot of the the the actual or origins and so on of tarot are kind of a little bit clouded with in history because it evolved over time, but you know, we're talking about you know, 600 years of history at least.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

And we'll have a couple of books um linked in the show notes that Dell mentions about uh the history of tarot with the Romani people. Yes, so I have the books that they mention and they're in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, because I'm very, very curious about that. But the sort of historical origins of tarot, as far as we can tell, start in Italy as a card game, and then you know, the Romani are using them to tell fortunes, and then it's sort of moving throughout Europe. The card game moves throughout Europe, and with it kind of comes this idea of using it as a way to tell the future. Every deck in a tarot, every single one, if it's called a tarot, it's gonna follow this. It has 22 major arcana cards, although some of the more modern decks are adding like a few extras now, and then they have a major arcana. This is the lovers. The lovers. That's a clas that's a major arcana. And then they have four suits, each with 14 cards, four of which are court cards, and that's are what we call phase cards, the king, the queen, and everything. So Knight of Cups, yeah. So there's 78 cards in in total in any tarot deck, unless they've added to the major arcana, which that's not a traditional thing. The major arcana is very specific, but some will add, and I would argue if they're adding those, they're actually Oracle cards, not arcana cards.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

But I would agree.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yes. But let's not be too pedantic. You do you boo. But the and this this I'm just holding the move on.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Which one is talking about?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

That which one is that one? This is the Knight of Swords. Ooh, that's pretty. Um, it's sort of a nighttime scene with a crescent moon and a birdcage and some crows flitting about. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

And we'll talk we'll look at the Crow Tarot deck again.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Um so if you're not watching, I'm just holding up a few cards to illustrate the suits and the various things. Yeah. And I'll put them all on Insta.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

So it basically, if you have ever seen a deck of playing cards like poker, ooh, Queen of Pentacles, um, that's essentially how the main part, the minor arcana of the tarot is set up. It those are based on that. So it's those cards plus the major arcana. Um, so the suits and the court cards sort of might vary in how they're named. Like I think the classic was it's cups, swords, staves, and discs? Discs and something like coins. Coins, I think it's coins. Like if it's a themed tarot deck, maybe instead of staves, it's like wands. Pentacles change the one. Like pentacles, coins, um, discs. Each suit also stands for a an element. Fire, air. I can't remember which one is the earth one, but sometimes they'll change that to stones.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Pentacles is pentacles.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So yeah, I've seen st I have a deck that where they the pentacles is stones or something like that. So they m they do sometimes change those, but they overall are the same thing. Um, they follow that same structure. So even if the art is different, or maybe the names are a little different, the structure is the same. And then Oracle decks can have any number of cards. And each card represents whatever the creator, the size it represents. And there are oracle decks that range in um 36. I think that's my smallest deck, is either 28 or 36. I can't remember. It's a really small deck, to apparently like 101 cards. This my my favorite right now is soap ready. I know the Navo Goddess Oracle deck, which we've talked about before. Um, so we have the Wait for Clarity, which we pulled uh the other day, and we've got like ancestral guidance here. Um we've got oh I love this one, celebrate, which is you know, kind of a beautiful art piece of people dancing in a field of flowers. Ask and believe, which is Mucha painting. Muca, Mucha? This this deck is 82 cards, which is a real chunker for an Oracle deck. They generally tend to be fewer cards than uh than a tarot, but not always, as we can see. There's and there's just uh as many variations in what card each card represents. I just love this deck, it's so gorgeous. That's why uh they all tend to come with well, I mean tarot usually comes with a deck, uh, I mean a what do you call it? A uh a booklet, thank you, as well. But the Oracle decks all come with booklets. Like a tarot deck. If you don't like the booklet that it comes with, you can just look up online what it means. Like I tend to use Biddy Tarot a lot for the meanings.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Um because there's a lot I like that site, it's pretty clear.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

It's clear, it's concise, it's easy to read, and um, it gives you like maybe some of the examples and things. She's really good at explaining that. So if I look that up, oh okay, that makes a lot of sense to me. But you can't really do that with an Oracle deck because it's the it's the meaning of the person who created it. But the thing that's really cool is that it's also about your meaning. So it can take on a meaning for you, and that's actually the most important bit.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

And we're gonna say this in our interview with Dell, but one of the things I really enjoyed when I first met them, I met them on my very last night in Portland. I have you guys, I actually have heard of Portland before. I was just teasing at the beginning. I've been there. Um, but my very last night in Portland before I moved to Portugal is when I met Dell at, and we'll talk about this a little bit in our interview with them. But what intrigued me so much about the way they read tarot cards was the way they used tarot and Oracle together to tell a more complete story. Right. And I had not that's something that hadn't I hadn't thought of doing in combination, the way they do it. And they'll walk us through that. So I'm not gonna get into it now because that would be pointless. Because we're gonna get it from the expert in the second. Woo-hoo.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Um, I do can use them together, which is absolutely a lot of um, I've seen some readers uh, you know, they'll do like a tarot spread and then they'll use the oracle as a sort of a finishing flourish, or sometimes they'll use an oracle to clarify. Like, let's give me more clarity on this. And I was curious because I'm I'm not gonna talk about the reading that you shared with us, uh, like the specifics, but you had done a layout uh that gave you some information, and then you did another layout that gave you a time period, like you're like, this is how where I got the time period from. And I was really curious about that because I've never really understood how you told time periods.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Well, what's fun with that is the the Oracle deck that I used with my tarot deck had a card. Uh it's the Norse goddess Oracle card, and one of the Norse runes is the harvest rune, and it represents a one-year harvest cycle. Oh and so that's it's because I pulled that specific card. Yeah, and it it that card is associated with a one-year um farming cycle. And so the book very much said this can be interpreted as a solar year. And this is what you're looking at. If you're looking at something time limited, you're looking at a solar year. And I was looking for something that I I was delighted to have a time period on that. It worked really well for what I needed at that point in time. Yes, yeah, and so that's how that came. So, like, depending on what Oracle decks you have and how they fit with your reading, yeah, you can get that kind of specificity that you wouldn't necessarily get.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I had a reading one time by someone who told me that typically with tarot, it's six months to a year out, is generally what it it doesn't like go past, you know, it's not like a long term necessarily. And so I don't know if that's the all readers feel that's the case, but but I think I was really curious.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

If you are a reader, let us know in the comments. Yeah. Okay, because I really want to know what your opinions are on like when you're future casting with Terror Oracle decks, what what kind of a time period do you have in mind? Like, is do you agree that this is a six-month to a year situation? Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah, because that was what I was told, and maybe that was just that one reader. So I thought it was really interesting that you had said the this Oracle deck told me that, and I was like, ooh, well, how did that work? Because what was interesting was when I was doing a draw, that the one that I shared, I the cards that I was pulling were all sort of summer cards, like they had a summer vibe to them, just because of like the flowers that were on the card. This feels to me like this is something that's gonna happen by summer kind of a thing, which we're getting real close to now. Uh but I wonder, you know, so that was just like my vibe that I got, but like, and I wasn't sure because I've never really tried to do like a timeline myself in my own readings. So I was really curious.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

So I have at times made my question time specific. I will do at the beginning of a month. This is the question I have for May, which is over. So I don't actually have any questions for May, other than why were you so busy? Oh my god. I I very often will do a three-card spread at the beginning of the month saying, This is where I'm at right now. This is where I need to be by the end of the month, and this is how I get there. And then um, now that I have talked to Dell and done a little bit more work with using Oracle cards to define more what I'm gonna do, I think that that's probably something I will continue to do is do my three cards right at the beginning of the month. Uh-huh. And here's where I'm at, here's where I want to be, or here's where I'll be, how do I get there? And that's not just me then making these. I mean, it's still me just interpreting things for myself.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

And I think it's always nice to go get a second opinion, if you will, from a professional who isn't tied into your psyche. Yeah. But there's nut I've heard people say that you should never read for yourself, and I think that's bullpucky.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

I think that's nonsense.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

I like to say bullpucky. I swear. Bullpucky is a great word. But it is nice to get a second opinion from time to time. Yeah. That's one of the ways that I use tarot and oracle together now. Now.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah. Oh, that's cool. See, because like I think for me, I think reading for yourself is a way to calm your mind, calm your tits, as my cousin would say. Just bring your one party tit! We except for the one party tit. Let that tit out. Yeah. Um, but it is a way to calm down, focus, and then I do think there's a level of your own inner self, your or your universal self, what whatever, sort of connecting with the cards. And what I think it helps is it helps bring clarity to your own because that will you're the answers are within you anyway. You have, you know, they're there. And it's just about that clarification, and it helps you focus and clarify. And if you pull a card and you really are like about the meaning, oh no, that's not, then then that also then you're using my daughter's cat tarot, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

And you should maybe like back off of murs, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

That's hers. Um, but I think it gives you an opportunity to think about why am I having this reaction to this card? What is it about this card that I'm having such a negative reaction to that?

SPEAKER_02 21:23

I think anytime you have a knee-jerk to anything, yeah, whether it's what's coming up in your cards, what you've read on the interwebs, something that somebody has said about, for example, if you are a man and somebody says something about a man and you're like, not all men, then you need to figure out why it's not that way. If somebody says, Oh, white women, and you're like, ah, not all white women. Sorry about screaming in your ear that last time. Um, if you're knee jerking, it's it's what's that saying? I hit dog hollers. Right? So those are real world examples, as is the tarot. But if something's coming up in your tarot readings and it's making you knee-jerk, then you need to figure out why, whether it's something that five minutes of thinking about will answer, or you need to go do some shadow work to kind of look into what part of your psyche is having a reaction here, then you need to do that. Don't just dismiss it as this is wrong. You can eventually. Yeah. If it turns out it's wrong, then yeah, dismiss it. But don't dismiss it out of hand if it's given you a knee-jerk.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Absolutely. Because that that means something, that's triggering something. Yep. In honor of our guests today, we have a really fancy cocktail here.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Well, so Del suggested two cocktails.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yes, that's correct. Bergamot old-fashioned.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

The bergamot old-fashioned. Yeah. And an Empress Jin French 75.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

That's right. I had forgotten you'd mentioned that one.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Jaya and I are givers. We split duties on this.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

We did.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

And so Shay is doing the old-fashioned. And I'm doing the French 75.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yes. An old-fashioned is actually incredibly easy to make. It's one of the simpler, simpler ones. But um, if you're like, oh, I don't bergamot, I don't what? Um, it's Earl Grey tea, and you're basically making a simple syrup out of Earl Grey tea. It's it's that easy. I just did mine with bourbon, earl grey syrup, and then I use a couple dashes of orange bitters instead of ungosura bitters. I always put some orange and maraschino cherry in mine, although I did not this time because this is actually an oddball. I started out to make an old-fashioned, realized I was out of Earl Grey syrup, didn't have time to make any more. So I decided to switch to a highball mid-channel. Uh, only instead of opening a bottle of ginger beer, I just decided to do it with tonic water. And so I call it an oddball instead of a highball or you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Well, I'm adding a fairly traditional French 75 until they specified Empress Gin, which is the purple gin. I'm not gonna go buy purple gin because I have 7,000 gins in my cupboard, and I don't need to go buy any purple gin. Um, so I made my own because that's how I roll.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Okay, you're so fancy.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

So I have my purple gin that I made with uh London dry gin and butterfly pea flowers, and uh purple, I blueified my gin. And then it's just simple syrup and lemon juice, and that's what gives it the purple color. And then top with Esquimot, because I live in that's our bubble.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Nice. And we've talked a lot in the past about bourbon energy, orange energy, all that. But bergamot energy, which bergamot is what gives Earl Grey that specific flavor, it's it's a citrus. Um, it's celebrated in aromatherapy and spiritual practices for its uplifting, protective, and abundance attracting properties. Acting as a liquid sunshine, the citrus fruit is highly valued for dispelling negative energy, easing anxious thoughts, and boosting self-confidence. So the energy of the bergamot old-fashioned would be prosperity, self-confidence, and joy.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

And for the Friend of 75, again, this isn't our first uh Friend of 75 rodeo. Yeah, in the least. Uh this is one of my favorite cocktails. It's probably my favorite cocktail. If I had to pick one. Okay. This is it. And uh so gin is purification, protection. Uh lemon juice is purification and protection. Esquimant is love and celebration, and then you have the sugar, and I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

It adds sweetness to life. It adds sweetness to life and it attracts abundance.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yay, so this is protection, purification, celebration, and abundance. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Woohoo. Or how how do they say how do how do they say salu?

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Salun Not with an L though here. Salut. Salud.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Salud. Okay. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Thanks, Del.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Thanks, Dell. And speaking of Dell, let's go talk to them and see what they have to say about Oracle and Tarot.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Better stuff than we do, for sure. I am super excited today to welcome Del to the podcast. Dell, who uses they, them pronouns, is the tarot reader behind Patriarch Tarot and has been reading cards for more than 20 years. What started as readings for friends and family has grown into a community practice rooted in reflection, intuition, and radical self-trust. Del works with tarot as a daily ritual, using the cards to set intentions and explore life through a wider lens. As a queer, non-binary guide and community builder, they create spaces where people feel seen, feel like they belong, and reconnect to their own inner authority. With Patriarch Tarot, the cards aren't about predicting an unchangeable future. They're about helping you claim your place in it. And I met Del on my very last day in Portland, hanging out with my friend Sam at my very favorite wine bar in Portland. And it was uh watercolor and tarot night. And I was like, well, this is very interesting. And then Del sets up beside us, and I'm like, nosing over. And then as soon as there was a break in the activity, I'm like, how much money do you want? I need you to tell my teacher. I think I might have been slightly less weird than that. But I it was it was less weird.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

I can attempt to the fact that it was less weird. It was delightfully Portland normal.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Well, Portland normal is um well a little weird, but not too weird.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

So I met Dell at a wine bar, but I believe Shea has a much more important question then.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Oh, I do. So first I want to say, welcome, Dell. Thank you. Thank you for having me. We're so excited to have you with us. Of course, Amy told me the story of how she met you, and apparently there was cash money involved, and sounds much more illicit when you say that.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

I always call it cash money just so it sounds a little extra. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Very extra. So I've been really excited to have you here with us. So here is my most important qu this is probably the most important question you will ever be asked in your life. What is your favorite cocktail?

SPEAKER_03 29:14

This was a little bit hard for me because I love whiskey. I love whiskey. But with the aging process, the whiskey is not landing as gently as it used to land. So I will tell you that one of my favorite old fashions is made with uh bergamot liqueur called italicus. And it did like adds the sweetener in the old fashion, and it is absolutely delicious. Um we I also really love gins, and I like the gins that are not very juniper-y. So that's what I brought today is the French 75. Yes. And we did a gin tasting at our house last weekend with friends. And so this is a different gin. I haven't tried this gin before this weekend. Um, it's by Empress, and I like their, they have a purple one. But when you add the citrus, you get a little magic and it changes color.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

This is also Empress, but it is elder flower, rose, and black carrot.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Is that their new one that they just put out?

SPEAKER_03 30:23

It seems like it. I we were at the liquor store and they had four different Empress varieties, and I was like black carrot and rose. I was like, that's the kind of witchy level I want to get involved in.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Like Okay, so I need to know more about this. I will be doing my own research. Everyone's coming out of this with homework. Mine is uh an opier uh laundry gin, because I don't have Empress. But I made it with uh chocolate butterfly pea flowers, which is what gives Empress its color. Yes. And then with a citrus. I did chemistry. I took pictures yesterday because I had to experiment with what gin would work best, obviously. Obviously, taste testing. So it's not as it's more purple than yesterday, but still I have not achieved the level of purple that I want. I love that you added it yourself.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

I have not experimented with that. It sounds really fun.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

I love better living through chemistry, both hot health and mental health drugs. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Uh and I am drinking a my version of a bergamot old-fashioned. I didn't I do not have the bergamot liqueur. Essentially, uh, you know, what is Earl Grey tea? But black tea with bergamot in it. So I made a simple syrup, got a little fresh orange, the yummiest orange, and um, these cherries were from the bitters that I made the other day. So they're quite boozy. So yeah, so that's my version of a bergamot old-fashioned. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

And thank you for giving me an excuse to have a cocktail in the middle of a day. I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Day drinking for the win.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Win!

SPEAKER_01 32:05

We can thank Amy for moving to Portugal.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Tell us about your witchy spiritual journey as much as you want to, of course, and why did you pick up that first deck? We know when, more or less, from your bio, but why?

SPEAKER_03 32:18

The very first deck I picked up was in it was in my early 20s, and I was in a place where I was like, we're strapped for cash, right? Like you're getting you're getting your first job, you're figuring things out, everything feels expensive your whole existence. And I told myself that if I found this deck three times, I would buy it. Because it was a whopping, I don't know, twenty or twenty-five dollars, and at the time that was a big expenditure. It popped up, and I was at Seattle Pride. It was my first time at a really huge Pride festival, um, and I had moved away from home and done all the things, and my heart was just kind of like cracking open, right? There's all these possibilities, and I'm around all of this beautiful, queer energy and feeling alive and awake, and and there was the deck, and so I picked it up, brought it with me today. I have I brought a stack of um decks with me, um, and it's a it's a goddess deck. Um, and so like here is the moon card, uh, represented by Diana. Nice Artemis has already always been one of my very important archetypes to me. Um, and so I love that. Um, and so it goes through, and each one of the suits honors a different goddess from a different culture, and then all of the um major arcana are all represented by all these different goddesses throughout a number of different um uh uh traditions and histories and sort of thing. And so I love it. It's so familiar to me. The little booklet that came with it is just like beat to hell now. Because I, you know, like, and anytime I'm having a hard time doing a reading for myself and I need some objectivity, that is the book I go for. I grab that one and I go back to my roots and I say, okay, where did where did this start? How did I start learning this? And so it just resonated with the energy of where I was at at the time, and I loved that it was femme-centric, and I loved that it was a little bit cross-cultural, and it just brought all those different elements into it. I mean, and it's just it's pretty, right? Like there's the ones pretty are like these rich orange colors, it represents the fire, and the pentacles have the traditional like gold coins, they also have these lovely greens in them, and so it was just like a very cozy deck to get started and and kind of build from. So I grew up in a family that was um non-practicing Lutherans, um, and I went to a Catholic high school, and somewhere in there there was a spiritual journey for me where I got I got involved in the Bible studies and the this and the that, and by the time I got to college, the queerness that I had come to know about myself and my political beliefs were starting to rub up against those um Catholic and Christian beliefs that I had been taught. But I knew that there was something good that had come out of all of that. Having a spiritual practice, being in touch with a higher power, taking time to what I now say meditate, but would have said pray at the time. Like all of those pieces, those were incredible takeaways that I didn't get from my family of origin and that came to me through exploring religion. And then when I kind of cracked it open and I was like, oh, there's all these other things out here that if I pick and choose, that starts to create a worldview that I'm actually like super comfortable with, and I'm happy practicing, and I'm happy being a part of. And so, yeah, so it's like, why did I pick up my first deck? I can't really tell you, except that I wanted more.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

It called to you, basically.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Yeah, it did. It did, and it it started speaking to me. And at that point, I had had a couple readings and I had from professional readers, and I'd done some reading about it and that sort of thing, and I had been studying different religions throughout the world and that sort of thing, and so Tarot just spoke to me as like a tool that like we can have immediate access to no matter who you are or where you are, and I just I I loved that. I loved how creative it was. And every time you pick up a deck, it's like 70 plus little pieces of art. And that's really beautiful to me, too.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Yeah, I have a I have a habit, uh somewhat of a tarot oracle deck habit. Yes. And um, I have backed many more Kickstarters than I would like to admit to publicly. Um 68. Uh, at least half of those were tarot, I think, or a third, something like that. A third, two. I'd have to count, but yeah, I have so many. Counting is hot. Yeah, it's like I've got so many. This is amazing! Like, here's a couple of them. I've got goddess ones and art deco ones. This cracked amethyst one is one of my favorites. Like so many, so many. They're all over. I can't even I can't even sit in.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

I can only see 15 decks. There's more in my bedroom.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

I've got y'all. You are my people. I love this.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

My most recent deck is this one, which is just uh old. Now let's see if I get this right. Oh no, I almost said it again. Raider Raider White. I keep calling it Raider White. It's Raider White. But they're like little playing card size. Like they're so cute. And uh my friend Christine got those for me for my birthday, so that's my latest deck.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

Well, and that's what is happening now, right? Is that like people know that you love the thing and they see it and they think of you and they bring it into your life, right? Or like I go on a trip and I'm like, let's find the witchy bookstore and let me, you know, that sort of thing. But I apparently need to give myself permission to make more purchases because I my numbers are nowhere near as high as y'all's, and I'm like, oh, these are life goals.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

We'll we'll write we'll write you a prescription for more. I do that for people.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

I will write you a prescription.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

I appreciate that very much. My first deck is in my bedroom, but my second deck that I ever bought when I was feeling full of whimsy is unicorns. This is my card that I like to keep front and center is my three of cups. I don't use this deck for readings anymore, it just sits here and it is fun for me. Three of cups because I like this.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

To be perfectly honest, I don't remember my first deck. Really? I think it was a goddess deck as well, not the same goddess deck, a different one.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

I'm fairly certain. I know the second one was a steampunk, steampunk deck.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Um, but I I actually I'm not I'm not super clear on my first one. I just know they started talking and I started buying like a crazy person. That's how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

When you find love, you find love and you run at it.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

I just got that deck. The Crow Tarot, yes.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

This is my go-to one. Um that I use most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Amy and I have gifted each other many tarot and oracle decks as well.

SPEAKER_03 39:29

And it's so interesting how people, different, different people resonate with the different decks and the different artistry. So the event that Amy and I met at that you mentioned earlier, was um it's called Witchy Watercolors. If you're in Portland, you can find us on Instagram. It's my friend Jess's business. She teaches watercolor classes. You can do non-tarot classes with her too, but the the project that we work on together is um she it's like it's a sip-in paint. And so we go to different venues, and she teaches you two postcard size um watercolor paintings that are tarot themed, and I do tarot readings along with that. And so I've talked to at this point in the last four or five years, I guess it's four years, I mean hundreds of people about their tarot practice and what deck they have. And I'm not a reader, I have just had a deck for eight years, and I'm like, you're a reader, like it's okay if you're still using the book, I don't care. You are taking the time to be in tune with yourself, be in tune with the cards, like you are a reader. And it's so interesting when people are like, Oh, but I have this stained glass cat deck that has crowns on, you know what I mean, and whatever the specific art is, and they just light up talking about it because they they found this little portable thing that represents like their heart, and it's this like safe place for them to land, whatever the art is, and I don't know, it's it's really fun seeing people kind of light up talking about their decks.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

My favorite deck was the Wild Unknown Tarot by Kim Kranz.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Yeah, yeah, she's a Portland artist.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Is she? I did not I had no idea. I just someone had posted it online and I fell in love with the art, like hard. And so I ordered it, and the minute it came, my soul just connected to it. And it was not my first deck bite, you know. I think I was on it was but it was one of the early ones.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

A friend gifted me a book of her art somewhere along the line, and it's one of those where you're supposed to kind of like journal in it or doodle in it or do something, and I was like, I cannot. This is too pretty. I can't taste the putty. No, the deck, I understand that you are inviting me into this process to co-create with you in this book, and I can't do it. It's too nice. I will I go mess up a palette, I go sew, I'll go do all kinds of other things, but not this pretty book.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Do you have a favorite a favorite deck or do you kind of cycle through what you got going on? I know you said you always come back to the goddess deck if you're looking for that, but is there other others that kind of that you want to share?

SPEAKER_03 42:13

It feels like it's like four different scenarios. I like different things. So, like at Witchy Watercolors, I use the um the modern witch tarot. Oh, that's so true. I love that one. I have that. It's great, right? And it uses traditional archetypes enough that people who are brand new can kind of see the trends. They see the all the pentacles are pentacles, and all the swords are swords, and it's like very clear to them. But it uses, you know, a more diverse and increasingly diverse, like um, body types and races and genders and things like that. So I really, really love that. The Crow Tarot is the one I keep coming back to for myself. It's so funny that you pulled that one out because that is one that, like, if I'm just reading for me, um, I will I will get out pretty regularly. And then I was just gifted, I forgot to look up the name of it today, but a deck that is in an art nouveau style, and it has four lovers cards representing different gender combinations and variations of non-binary, and of course, there's way more than four, but four is very expansive to define the lover's card, so I loved that. And then there's this other one that I love that I think is really hard for new people, for people new to the art. Um, it's Next World Tarot by Christy C. Rhode. Um, and it's super radical. It's super radical. It pictures people at protests, there's Black Lives Matter art. Um The Devil card has a certain orange maniac on it. Um I mean, just all kinds of stuff. There's Molotov cocktails for the wands in one of the pictures. And I'm like so in love with it. And it's like it's I I almost want to call the art like dystopian, but it's so hopeful that I can't that dystopian doesn't feel like the right word. The word hope punk. Hope punk? Yes, that's exactly what this is. Yeah, I didn't know that was a word.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

It is a word. It was coined by a woman. I I'm really I cannot remember her name. Back in it was like 2017, I think, to basically describe the opposite of like Grimdark. And so Hope Punk has become a whole genre in like writing. Um and it fits in with like climate fiction, cli-fi. And um which I love that term, cli-fi, yeah. Climate fiction, climate fiction, but like it's all like an eco eco fiction and stuff that all but it all is so it's basically it's hope as a punk, essentially. That hope is badass, and true hope takes work, is essentially the the message.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

And um yeah, so that's that is very much how this deck feels to me. Like, here's the Queen of Pentacles, and it's a person that I would say the the character looks to be like a member of my queer community, and it feels to me like they're on a reclaimed bus that's been repurposed, and I mean look at that queen energy, right? It's like community, it's this beautiful sunset, like um, so I really like to use this deck to read for myself also because it really flips the ideas on its head and it really like centers community and sharing and mutual aid and revolution and you know, like be the change you want to see in the world, and sometimes that involves radical, feisty, fiery fighting. Um, and I just I love that.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

And for those of you listening and not seeing, um, go check out our social media. No, cool. Go check out our social media, and I will drop pictures of everything we're talking about here so you too can see what we're seeing.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

I love it. Yeah, it's so much fun, and it's so nice to kind of settle into the different things and the different pieces of art and figure out like kind of what expresses what you're feeling at this time and what resonates with that, and be with that as a part of the reflection process through the cards. I think is I think it matters.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Amy had a reading from you, and um she really loved that like you used an Oracle deck to kind of further dive in. So kind of kind of tell us uh kind of your method when you're when you're reading for s for someone.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

Yeah, so I started reading, like I said, 20, 25 years ago in my early 20s, and in my I guess it would have been my early 30s, I studied under Radiant Red. She's a practitioner uh who's out of Vancouver, Washington at the time. Sandy is her name. I was really in my head when I was doing readings for myself, like really thinking the interpretation of the card. What does the card mean? What does the book say? And she's like, hold up, I want you to just back up. I want you to go, I think we said 60 days without using any tarot cards. And I just want you to use an Oracle deck. And she handed me a deck off of her shelf and said, go practice. It was this really interesting practice to step back and not think so hard about what does the card mean? Because on most Oracle decks, the card literally says what it means. Right. You don't have to think. You really have to sit with your feelings about it and say, this card is saying today is about pause. This card is saying this today is about play or whatever the style of deck is. That was really hard for me. I had to sit there and really come up with my own interpretation and to say, this is what this means to me, and this is how I'm gonna live that out, rather than the card told me or the card said, you know, that sort of thing, and really, really sit with that. And so um, when I do the mini readings, the four-card readings, like we did, like Amy and I did, I find it to be like a nice punctuation mark for the person, especially folks who are new to the cards. Okay, great. I flipped all these cards, I've told you about the imagery and what the imagery represents, and we've woven together this chronology of kind of what's happening, what the universe wants you to know right now. And then let's flip over one more card. And the number of times that it just is like the briefest summary statement of what the other four cards just said is phenomenal. Like, if I had even doubted the power of the cards, statistically, the ability for you to draw four cards out of this deck and one card out of this deck and have them say the same darn thing, yeah, is it it's mind-blowing. And so I I love that. It's just like a really succinct, let's get out of the storylines and just hit the nail on the head. And I think there's a component of like, oh, you could just draw an Oracle card and skip all the rest of it. But I love the exploration and the what do you think about this and how does that sit with you, and helping people kind of like walk through their reflection process through the cards, yeah, and then the Oracle card kind of representing this thing that sometimes is like easier to remember as they walk away.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

Yeah, because I've had many readings where I couldn't remember which cards were drawn, but I could remember the theme of the reading. So yeah, yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Well, for me, I I mean, I was obviously um having a transition in my life where I was moving to a new country. But there was one card that came out, and I'm like, this one is not hitting me. Like I'm not I'm not feeling connected to this card, and don't ask me what it was. It's private not because I don't remember, it's private private, yes. Very, very private information. And also, when you put the Oracle card on top of that, it all kind of connected together. And then I was like, oh now I see how this is fitting in with everything else. And I went to see if I'd taken a picture of it, and like, you know what I have a picture of that night is a sunset. My last Portland sunset.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

Which I am glad you have that picture. That is also a great picture to have, and also that's very funny.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

And her um stuffy jelly on the carpet. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Kind of stuffy. Gotta have that jelly.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

Jelly is a world-traveling stuff cat.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

She has her own Instagram and everything. I follow Jelly.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

Okay, need that link.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

I enjoy Jelly's adventures.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

Hello. Well, and it's interesting because I call it reading amnesia. I can meet you again someplace and I can know that we had a reading. Sometimes I've met 20 people in a night and I won't remember a person by a face. But often I will remember people by a face or an energy, like a vibe about them, right? Like, oh, you were sad that night or you were excited that night or whatever. I cannot tell you what we read. And it's like, on the one hand, I feel a little bit bad, and on the other hand, this is really great for your confidentiality. Because I will never tell anyone what we talked about because I can't remember. And I think it's but that's also part of the power in the moment is to say, like, this is where I was at that day, and I took from it what I needed to take from it, and I move forward. I do encourage folks that visit with me to take a picture of their cards when I do online readings over um Zoom or Google Meet. Um, I send people the photos afterwards so that they have them as a reference point if they want them. And that's part of my own personal practice. On on my Instagram, you can see that like I post my own readings that I do a couple times a week. There's power in what you remembered from that and how you used it as opposed to the chronology of all the things. Like this day it said this, and this day it said that, and this day it said that. But like it should empower us to go out in the world and make the world a better place, bring us and our people to a closer, closer to our truest joy, our truest, our highest abilities, right? So, like, we don't have to hold on to all of it. We can just kind of let it breathe, also.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

Well, I do remember that mine was a lot about change.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

If there hadn't been, I'd be like, girl.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

That would have been weird. That would have been real weird. Leading up to that, almost every reading that I did for myself, leading up like the six to eight months before I moved, regardless of deck, always had the Wheel of Fortune in it to the point where I was like, I know. I leave me alone. Please stop. I know, and I am hearing you, but like I'm working on stuff, okay?

SPEAKER_03 53:30

Okay, okay, okay. But you know what I do when that happens is I pull those out at the beginning of the reading and I set them. If it's a big reading, I'll put them at the center. If it's a small reading, I'll just put them all like almost like altar style, just on the table, and I will say, okay, we can't draw those cards. We have to pick different words to talk to me through right now because I'm not getting it. And so we're just we're gonna force the cards to give me slightly different message, and usually it starts to like kind of pull it out. But one of the Oracle decks, I don't remember if the one you and I use that night, Amy, but one of my Oracle decks, this lizard followed me around for like nine months, and I was just like, uh, and it's about like cutting something off and regrowth, and I was like, I am clearly not cutting off the thing I'm supposed to cut off. I don't know what you want from me. And so I just started it, just sat out on my altar, and then I just drew cards around it because I was like, it's I I'm not getting the message. We just need different words. Let's let's go a different angle here.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

That's that's such a great and I think I said ten of swords, I meant nine of swords. So um that's very different. Yeah, with the wheel of fortune and not ten of swords. Uh they're not showing up anymore, so whatever this move was got rid of those cards anyway.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

It cranked through it. Yeah, you did what you needed to do to get on the other side of that wheel. And I tell you, the Wheel of Fortune is one of those cards that when it comes up in a reading, I'm like, I don't know if I can help you. It is so like everything's gonna happen for a reason and everything's gonna keep happening. Strap in because you're going for a ride, and you're like, okay, great. If it's reversed, I'm like, maybe you're not the main character, maybe you're attached to somebody else's wheel and you're getting pulled through this because it's not your storyline, but also, yeah, you're kind of, and it's not always bad. It's not the tower or the devil or like, you know, even the three of swords. It's not like these like tumultuous things, but you're you're gonna go through it until you're not going through it anymore, and you might not be able to control that. And that part's wacky sometimes and very uncomfortable for people.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Yeah, I went through it. Mm-hmm. A little bit.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

And here you are on the other side of it.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

We've talked about your tarot practice, and that you you were doing these readings, this is part of your job. But do you have other oracular or spiritual interests that you practice that you want to talk about or share? You're obviously not asking you to um disclose anything personal unless you want to.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

Unless you want to.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

I want you to.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

Um, well, I I did get a set of runes, and I think I finally found there's a queer runes. I didn't write it down. I just found a book the other day that is the runes written from a modern queer perspective. Um, and so I do want to learn how to do that, but I have not studied them. My ancestry is German and Irish, and so that feels like a good place to go. Like, that's one of the weird things about practicing tarot so much is that this is not my family's ancestry, and this is not, you know, it is the Romani people who carried this through so much persecution and so much mistreatment to bring it into modern society, where I'm in Portland, Oregon in a bar doing readings, right? Like the levels of magnitude here are like not the same. And so I do want to I would do want to learn runes. Um, and I have started I have a hard time remembering astrology stuff. I don't know why I can remember I can I've found the storyline through the tarot cards. Astrology is hard for me.

SPEAKER_01 57:21

I don't know. There's degrees and houses and and and whatever, but like, I mean, I can remember some things, but not all of I mean it there's so much.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

I have a dear friend Opal who can stuff about me, and that's it. Right?

SPEAKER_03 57:40

I have a dear friend Opal who can she can just like rattle it all off, and she's like, oh well that's because so-and-so is a such and such, and they they're processing this and this and this way. And I'm like, how did you how did you remember their birthday? I gotta write that down on a Google calendar. Like, I'm amazed right now. Um but there is this like a I'd call it a subset. I don't know if the author would call it that, um, uh moonology that I am getting into through one of my teachers, Eva, and she does a moon circle dance once a month. And so we get together and we talk about the astrological happenings around the moon, and everybody in the community, but there's usually like eight or ten of us in the room. So it's a group, but it's not like a massive group. Everybody kind of shares a little bit about what they've been going through, what they've been working on since the last new moon. Um, and then we do a somatic dance afterwards to kind of work through any feelings and whatever else related to whatever's happening. And um, that's been really grounding for me the last few years. Um, it's also an online practice, so you can do it like wherever you can join the group from wherever you are. And I love that's awesome. That's cool. Right? Like if I feel like introverting, I just don't talk as much at group, and then I dance in my own home. And I can turn my video off if I don't feel like anybody looking at me, you know, those sorts of things. So I I have really gotten into that, but I cannot say that I'm a good astrology practitioner or I am knowledgeable in that area. Um, but I do love it. Um yeah, because you said spiritual practice. I guess the other thing is like the the breath work and the meditation work that I've learned through yoga and like American yoga, Western yoga is this like asana, athletic, buy the right pants. Uh right, it's become this health trend where you're supposed to be skinny and in expensive pants, and it's like I don't love that. But um uh the teacher that I studied with is Susanna Barkataki, and she's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

I know who that is. Yes, I don't, but I'm gonna hate it.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

Uh yeah, ign Ignite. Oh man, I I should know this. The name of the business is Ignite, and then I'm like, is it wellness and yoga or is it ignite yoga? Barkataki. Susanna Barkataki.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

It will be in the show notes. Thank you. I know. We'll get it right that time. Yes. Oh my.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

She's phenomenal. Um, and her whole team of humans and all the different teachers that she brings through to speak from different perspectives and that sort of thing. So during the pandemic, I did a 200-hour course with her, and I just it really like shifted how I see my body, how I see the world. That's the period where I got settled in with my identity as a they them femme as a queer person. Um, and she's just she she's amazing. But also the the historical practices of yoga, of of sitting with your breath and having a focus and just revisiting the limbs of yoga and kind of going back to that is like has been really, really good for me, also. And it's not the same as tarot, and it is not the same as Buddhism, right? Like all these things are distinct, but for me, there's a resonance in all of those different pockets that one kind of helps the other. My breath work helps me get centered so that I give a better tarot reading. Because there's the tarot reader that's coming from here, and that's Dell who sees the world through a certain lens and has a life coach training, and blah blah blah, and then there's this little voice that comes through here while I'm doing readings. And the more breath work and meditation that I've done, the clearer this voice is to separate out from all the other junk. But that's why my best friends can't get a reading from me after more than two glasses of wine, because then it's all this. And sorry, for people uh people listening, I'm doing this as like the mouth by my mouth, and then this is the mouth on the top of my head. And after too many drinks, it's all my mouth and not the divine download anymore. There's a limit.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

Yeah. I love that. And I love when people talk about yoga and the practices of yoga, and they take it beyond what we've learned as Western yoga. And I don't know how you started with yoga, but it was for me, it was very much Western yoga. Yeah. And there's so much that's left out of that. So if you are somebody who's interested in yoga and practices yoga, go do some exploration and learn about what yoga started as because there's so much more than just the asana.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:29

Right. And the asana is important and it's valuable. It's not that it's not valuable, there's so much more. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

I I remember the first time I went to a yoga class and I actually got injured. It was so focused on the physicality and not the mindset behind it, not the breath work, not the being in tune with your body. So I recently learned about I'm totally blanking on the type of yoga, but it's like basically where you just sort of lie there and breathe. And like restorative, yin. There's a few different kind of versions. Yeah. The scan the body kind of a like thing. I I want to say like some it started with an N. And I so I that's something I want to look more into because of my physical body being unable to even do the most basic yoga, really, other than maybe the cat and the cow very gently.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

And that matters, right? Because we have to listen to our bodies. And the amount of not listening to my body that I've done in my life, either because I was overriding whatever message my body was giving me, or because I was too busy, or because, you know, whatever, whether it was intentional or unintentional, it just ignored so many things, and that has ended up in chronic pain. But it is also just like those are intuitive downloads that we're getting all the time about how to proceed with a situation. And again, that's part of what I like about the tarot. It's like, let's pause. Because even if you don't believe in the magic of the tarot and I flip a card over and you get mad, that's a data point on the question you asked. It's a Rorschach test at that point, and that's still valuable. That still does you some good as a practice. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, can I ask you a question, Amy? Yeah. You mentioned earlier the Three of Cups being like one of your favorite cards, and that's the imagery that's my baby triarch logo, because I also love that card. So I'm curious for you, like, what is it about that card that resonates and feels special?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Well, I think for because it's just such a friendship card, I think. It's got that connection, and it's about I for me, it's strong female friendships, it's having that female community, and it's just about having a supportive. Um that's why that's on this stack. When I pick it up, that's the first card I see. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:59

That's so great. That's so great. I love it. I also interpret it as the Maid Matron crone, and I think that like no matter what stage of life you're in, like either you need community or you need to tune into yourself. And depending on the situation, those are both so valuable. And I just, yeah. So thank you. I was curious. I was super curious because I get really excited about that card.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

I don't know. I have a lot of different favorite cards, but that's the one that sits on this deck. Because the decks that I don't use as often, I will often have like my favorite card from the deck or something that's resonated with me sitting there, so when I pull it out, I can see it. I think my favorite might be the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

The world, maybe. I don't know. Really? Yeah. I'm always drawn to it. Or chariot. Those two come up in readings for me a lot. Or they did. I haven't had a reading in a long time.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:56

I mean, we can change that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

I think we know someone. Do we know somebody? I think I I I was like literally thinking that at at the beginning, I'm like, oh, they do that. Uh let's do the the reading of the hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:13

We could do that. But yeah, but like I think that those cards, like when you have a card that resonates with you, but I've also got cards that follow me around where I'm like, oh I'm doing that thing I do again. Right. So but yours are both major arcana cards, so it's like those feel like kind of personality types and like lessons that you're meant to be practicing in this lifetime. And like I think that's super powerful. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

I don't know what those lessons like why I I have no idea. People tell me, like, oh, those are great cards, and I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:45

So what? Well, okay. So I just met you today, right? I mean, I've been listening to you on the podcast, but like I just met you today. But so when I think of the chariot, I think of moving quickly towards things and trying to find the right balance of speed. Like if you're on a bicycle or a motorcycle, things get really hard when you go really fast and they get really hard when you go really slow. Right. And so there's always this like trying to find the right balance of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:12

Oh gosh, that makes so much sense. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

Yeah. That one sticks out to me a lot. The world is similar to the Wheel of Fortune to me, of like where you're woven in with everything else. And so, like, I would also make an assumption that you have like big feels and that you probably have to have big boundaries because there's people that you can absorb other people's energy or kind of get pulled into their stories. And so that's kind of the uh those are the the those are the archetypes that I think about with those two cards. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:40

Because boundaries is a thing that I've been learning. But yeah, the um learning, yes. I've been learning. Love it. I've been working on it. Not sometimes not so well. But yeah, that that's funny that the the chariot, because I have, I don't know if you're familiar with Clifton's strengths. Yeah. But um my so I have a lot of thinking strengths, but I also have uh cup some executing strengths, and like in my top five, there's like input and intellection are way up there. But then I've got activator, and activator is the ooh shiny, let's go fast, fast, fast. Now, now now. But the input and the intellection are like, uh, we need more information and we need to think about this. So I spent a lot of years like butting heads with myself, driving myself crazy, until I learned that about myself, and and it's still kind of a balancing act. It's always a balancing act, but I'm better at it than I used to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

Because it's so easy to demonize both of those, right? Like when you're sitting in your doer to demonize your analyzer, or when you're sitting in your analyzer to demonize your doer, and you're just always beating up, and you can never have a right answer, and you can never feel good about yeah, that's chariot. That's chariot energy, right? Big time.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:04

I decided to pull I have my Crow Tarot deck, which is the one I use all the time, so I don't have a favorite card that I have based, you know, on it. Because I use it all the time, so there'd be no point. So I just I I opened the box and I'm like, oh, I wonder, you know, I'm just gonna pull the top card. You know, because I'm fidgeting. I'm fidgeting while you guys are talking. I'm listening, but fidgeting.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

What'd you pull?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

It's the little port of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

That is hilarious. So now this makes me want to pull out me. I want now I want to pull out my cracked amethyst deck here. Do it, do it, do it, do it. I want to sit see um what I pull out. They are. Oh, this this flipped on me. The magician. Okay, well, that wasn't as funny as the the wheel of fortune. But the magician. The magician, like, I don't even know. I'm not familiar with the magician so much. I'm really I I'm one of the people that's like, I don't remember anything, and I don't know any of the cards. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:20

But I love them, so therefore you are a reader. Except because you are in love with them and you want to put the energy into it, and that is.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:27

And you spend a lot of time with them. I do. I remember nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

Oh, the magician, conscious effort, skill, and ingenuity. What started out as a single grain of sand, an irritant for the oyster, has been transformed into a beautiful pearl by the oyster using layers and layers of nacra. Well, that's what that is. That's I mean my so the crack damethyst deck is um the artist is Jessica Bots, I think. Jessica Bott. And um it's beautiful. Yeah, it's a picture of an oyster with a pearl in it. This is a very um simple deck like stunning.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:15

It's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:17

Yeah. Yeah, I just love it. I love this deck. It's got some really pretty but uh oh, the Emperor is suspiciously like a mountain. Almost almost mountainhood like, but not quite.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:32

It's a mountain and it's it's it's fiery in the artistry. The sky is like is like fire, so it feels very volcano without being the destructiveness of a volcano. Like when I hear magician, I hear all of those things are in balance. Like your analyzer and your doer are in balance because the magician does things with such ease that other people think it's magic. Like I think there's an actual magical element to the magician, but also in a practical sense, like I got a coworker and we all call her magic because she leaves that meeting and she's already got like a chart and a this and a that and a summary document, and you're like, How'd you do that? I barely went to the bathroom and got a glass of water.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:11

Like I have been accused of that from time to time. Yeah. Like I have to do.

unknown 1:12:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:16

And I think it's because since it's like I said, it's been a while since I've like really done any serious readings, but like I yeah, the the cherry used to come up quite a bit, and it doesn't anymore so much. Um, so maybe I have done better at balancing those things than I realize.

unknown 1:12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:35

But it is a kind of a unique magic because when you can get those two strengths working together, they're pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:44

Yeah, it really is. It really is. And the people around you appreciate it. I think is the other piece of that. Because there's the people who don't have either one of those skill sets, and they need you to activate things and to move them forward.

unknown 1:12:58

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:59

I'm not really surprised by these cards right now. We're talking about two published authors who manage a podcast and families and this and that. Like, yeah, okay. Uh-huh. These are big cards because these are powerful people. Part of part of my other journey is being a burlesque performer. I'm starting to step into a producer realm with that and helping producing live shows. And there are things that in my professional history I take for granted as being very natural. And it's like, oh, but other folks who are coming to this art from a different perspective, right? And have all these other talents that I'm like, I will never be able to dance that good. I will never be able to sing that good. Like things that like blow my mind, right? And I'm like, oh sure, I can organize a spreadsheet and make you a schedule and do a da da da da da da da da da da da da da, right? And so it's like when we bring our natural talents, some of those aren't even natural. A lot of those are learned, right? We bring our existing talents to the table, it blows people away. And then they bring their existing or natural talents to the table and it blows us away. And I think that's that's what makes the world go round. Can I do a shameless plug before we cut loose here? Uh-huh. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:11

Uh please shameless plug away. That's what I was gonna ask you to do. Yeah, we were gonna yeah, we were gonna ask.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:16

Well, I want to shameless plug a couple other creators, actually. That's where I want to start. Okay. Um, yeah, some people who have taught me a lot, and they are Romani authors, creators, readers, and intuitives. Um uh this this person I know as Bimba Yaga. Um, I will probably butcher the her author name is Yilva Mara Radzuki. Um, and the book is a practical guide for witches. I've taken some live classes with them. Um, I've read this book. If you get any opportunity to be around this creator, like do it. Everything they say will like just kind of explode your brain, and and it's just it's just amazing. I love her.

unknown 1:15:01

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:01

And then there's these two folks, Paulina Stevens and Jasmina von Thiel. Um, they also have a podcast called Romaniston. Um, the chronol uh uh keep mispronouncing that word today. They tell the stories of the Romani people and their fancy stories. Yes, that's the word I'm trying. That's the word I keep mispronouncing. Yep, we're gonna skip it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:28

Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:29

Um their book is The Secrets of Romani fortune telling, um, and Romanasan is their podcast, and they are also just like people who I look to as role models and teachers, and people that we should all be listening to. So I wanna I wanna plug them and their work, um, especially in in giving respect to the Romani people and the tarot practice is really important to me as a white person.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:57

In the show notes as well. So those resources will be there in our show notes. Yes. Awesome. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

Make sure to check them out. And and and uh Del, what is where can everyone find you? Yeah. Book a reading or or find your work or find out where you're at a paint and paint and sip and tarot night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:20

Um you can find me on Instagram at Babe Triarch um Babe Triarch Tarot and and you'll you can hear about all of our offerings there. Witchy watercolors is kind of the busiest thing. So if you're in the Portland area, check that out. They're the fun the nights are really fun. I met Jess when I went to paint watercolor, and that's how this collaboration started. So she's incredibly human. Um and I do online readings, I do in-person readings, and I'm now offering asynchronous readings. And then at different times of the year, like at the beginning of the Gregorian New Year, I'll do some specialty readings that are timed for that, that sort of thing. So you can check me out there. And if you're curious in burlesque, you can check me out at Delby Divine, uh, also on Instagram. Working on a website. I don't know if I'm gonna get around to it. Instagram's a little bit too easy and addictive to just like share my journey, but that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

And we didn't really talk about your burlesque other than just mentioning it at the end. And I am so disappointed in myself because I knew about this and I didn't even put in a question about it. Um but is there um that might be a whole nother interview, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:28

Like, yeah, we might have to do, we might have to have Dell back and talk about burlesque and other things.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

Yeah. And like, what can I say shortly about burlesque? Um, burlesque has been an incredible journey for me. Again, touching on that topic we talked about before of like getting into our bodies and being in tune with our stories, and that's been such a critical piece of that adventure for me, um, especially starting it in my mid-40s and jumping in there and making sense of an aging body, making sense of a body that I'm no longer starving like I was for so many years, and really just figuring out so many things through that artistry, and it is a big part of my healing journey. So um, I mentioned the moon circle earlier, and you can learn about that and more burlesque stuff at Body Magic Temple, and they also have online and local offerings, so they're pretty great. Such a delight. Thank you for having me here today. Thank you so much for being with us. Yeah, thank you for all the art you're making, and as a consumer of it, it's absolutely delightful. And Amy, I'm so glad you leaned over that day and you're like, What are you doing over there? Can I get the it's brought a lot of good things into my life, so thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:46

Thanks so much for coming. Be sure to check out the show notes for Dull and all of their uh things that they talked about, all the different books and decks and fun stuff. And thanks once again for joining us. And we're gonna have to have you back. I'm sorry, that's just all there is to it. We'll have another cocktail sometime. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, bye, friends. And we're back.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

That was bad. And I I need to schedule some with them because I I had my one that I did with them last August, but it's been nine months now. I've like practically had a whole baby at this point. The baby of moving to Portugal. I want you guys to go check them out and get a reading from them. Because we're cool and we're fun. We're gonna pull a card each, and I'm gonna pull a card from a tarot deck. So I'm pulling from the crow tarot deck that we talked about in our interview. This is my favorite, this is my go-to tarot. So I'm gonna, I shuffled during our break while you were during the interview. It's like a commercial break, right? And I'm gonna cut justice. Oh wow. Okay, so this card is so cool. There's a crow holding up like the scales of justice. Um and there's a crown floating over their head, and they have like a red scarf kind of wrapped around their eyes because justice is lying. And on their right side is a sword. So justice is one of the major arcana cards. I look them up because I get cra I get scared when we're talking on camera. And I'm gonna get it wrong, even though I do know what these are. But um, for justice, justice is all about obviously fairness and balance and the law. And that's very obvious for the picture. And that's something that we didn't really talk about with the character because a lot of times, regardless of the artwork, you can look at the artwork and discern the general overarching of the heart. You know, I had the scales of justice, justice is fine. So this says the crow flies upward and he's out there. He has nothing to say. His honesty has earned him the respect of his peers as they know he will take a balance right here. This crow of justice brings the message to take the time to see the problem or difficult challenge from all sides before making a decision. This kind of really goes back to what we were talking about before we talked to Del, about if something's giving you a knee-jerk, take the time to look at all sides of it before you make any decisions.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:30

That is excellent and very on topic. So I've been shuffling my jack this whole time. And this one's I just pulled this one off the top. Rest and renewal. She's um it's got like an art nouveau style little fairy, and she's leaning on a crescent moon that has basically little lots of little moon-like moons. Moon-like moons.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:59

Wings are butterfly-like.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:00

Yeah, they're butterfly. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:02

So pretty.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:03

Very pretty. I mean, rest and renewal is pretty obvious. And we were talking about how busy May has been.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:11

I infected your dad.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

She was listening. So the rest the rest and renewal card reminds you of the importance of taking time to restore yourself. A tired fairy rests peacefully on the crescent moon, embodying the natural rhythm of pause and rejuvenation. Just as nature has its cycles of activity and rest, so too do you need moments of stillness to replenish your energy and spirit. When this card appears, it's a gentle nudge to slow down and honor your need for rest. Let go of any pressure to keep moving, and allow yourself the grace of relaxation and renewal. Rest is not idleness. It is a vital part. Let me repeat that for those in the back. Rest is not idleness, it is a vital part of growth and well-being. Embrace this time to recharge, knowing you will return to your path with renewed clarity and strength.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:21

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:23

And it's me. I'm the one in the back.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:26

I might also be the one in the back. I tried to be the one under my desk doing that, but um. So one of the things I wanted to say as we're getting ready to say goodbye to you this week, which, you know, we have to. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Uh, is that starting the first week of June, uh, there will be a weekly-ish series called Two-Minute Tarot.

unknown 1:23:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:55

Um, that'll come out every Witchy Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:59

I like my alliteration, but I didn't want it to be Tuesday two-minute tarot because Tuesdays a day are episodes come out. Witchy Wednesdays will have two-minute tarot. And I'm going to just do little two-minute or less overviews of each of the cards in the tarot deck. Starting with an introduction into tarot tomorrow. And then we'll go through all of the other, all of the cards, starting with the major arcana, and then moving through each of the minor arcana. So I will be doing this for approximately how many cards are in a tarot deck? 78. So look forward to the next 78 plus weeks of me doing this. We'll also take breaks to talk about different spreads and different ways that you can use a tarot card. So you don't have to wait 79 weeks to get started.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:50

That would be a while. But that's cool because when it's done, it's going to be amazing. Well, actually, it's going to be amazing the whole time. And I'm actually excited to watch because I love Terror and Oracle, but I do struggle uh a little bit with like remembering, you know, the meanings and things. And that's why I really liked when Dell was telling us about how their mentor made them stick to Oracle cards for like a month or something, so they could get the feel of being more intuitive. And I'm like, I should probably try that. I haven't tried it yet, but it is in my to-do list.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:26

Well, it you it just happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

But I am excited for two-minute tarot. So that's gonna be exciting. So, Amy, where can they find out about our decks, about the books that Dell spoke of, about how to get in touch with Dell, and so on.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:48

Well, Shaya, in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:51

Fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:52

So check out the description on YouTube, the show notes. Um, if you're listening, head over to our Instagram. We'll have more details there. And that's where we'll have pictures of the stuff we talked about today, recipes, links to everything. And it will be amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:10

And sign up for our newsletter so you get notified of when there's some new episodes up. And be sure to like, subscribe, share.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:21

Comment, tell us about your favorite deck. I really want to know what your favorite deck is.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

Please enable us. We want you to enable us.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:31

Yes, because I don't have enough decks yet. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:35

So I need more. No such thing as too many.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:38

Uh that is true. Moderation and all things except this. And also maybe gin.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:47

Well, thank you for joining us for our adventures in tarot today. And we'll see you next time on the pod. Bye!