Episode 28: Part Time Lovers, Sacred Shadow Work, and an interview with IRIS BEAGLEHOLE!

In today's episode, Shéa and Amy talk crystals that amplify self-love and healing, the best tangy, floral cocktails, and interview IRIS BEAGLEHOLE about magic, both real and fictional.

Find Iris

https://irisbeaglehole.com/

https://www.instagram.com/irisbeaglehole/

https://www.facebook.com/IrisBeaglehole

https://www.tiktok.com/@irisbeagleholeauthor

Arcane Awakenings Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/arcaneawakenings/arcane-awakenings

Best Crystals for Self Love: https://www.juliettekristine.com/blog/best-crystals-for-self-love

The Part-Time Lover (Energy: Emotional Healing, Self-Worth, Positive Vibes)

Ingredients

• 1.5 ounces blanco or silver tequila
• 3/4 ounce freshly squeezed lemon juice from 1 medium lemon (or store bought is fine)
• ¾  ounce elderflower liqueur, such as St. Germain
• 1/2 ounces red or white sweet vermouth (a splash of grenadine adds color to the white)
• 2 dashes orange bitters 
• Pinch of salt

Garnish Lemon peel or orange slice (optional)

Instructions

1. Place ingredients in a cocktail shaker. Fill the shaker halfway with ice, seal, and shake until the outside of the shaker is very frosty, about 20 seconds.
2. Pour through a strainer into a coupe glass. Garnish if desired.

TBN Cocktail (Energy: Abundance, love/self-love, protection, healing)

Ingredients

• 60 ml Gin
• 30 ml Rose syrup
• 30 ml Lemon juice
• 1 Egg white
• ⅛ tsp Beet root for color
• Espumante

Directions

1. Add all ingredients except Espumante to cocktail shaker and shake for 30 seconds. 
2. Add ice to the shaker and shake again for 20-30 seconds. 
3. Strain into coupe glass 
4. Top SLOWLY with Espumante.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Welcome to Cliff Fingers and Cocktails Podcast with Amy Sissel, and that's me and my delightful co-host, Shane McLeod.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

That's me!

SPEAKER_02 0:20

We are USA Today best-selling authors of paranormal women's fiction, among other things. And this podcast is brought to you as always by the Caftan Heaven.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Yay! Today we are going to be talking with author Iris Spiegelhole about real magic, as well as, of course, her books, both fiction and non-fiction. And we'll also be talking about, of course, the usual drinkies, witchy things, and general shenanigans. Yay, shenanigans. Um of course we always start with an affirmation. That's our deal. Since we're talking in this episode about self-love and shadow work and self-healing, I wanted to pick something that went along with that. So this is a great self-love, self-healing affirmation. I love, respect, and believe in myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

I think I need to just write that on my bathroom mirror. So I see that all the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

It is a good reminder because we do have so many voices coming at us to tell us the opposite. Especially uh if you don't fit the supposed beauty standard or if you don't fit the patriarchal BS vision of femininity or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

But even then you're new to the pod, you may not know how Shaya feels about the patriarchy.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

I might have, I might have mentioned it once or twice.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

So I feel that way too. Yes. Just to be clear. It's not just Shaya.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

I'm not like, go, patriarchy! No, my entire uh in Instagram algorithm right now is Witchy Things, Down with the Patriarchy, Up with the Matriarchy, and very weird niche music. Very weird. And and and cocktails, also cocktails. Yeah. So once more, I love, respect, and believe in myself.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

That's awesome. And I know that every single one of you out there now does too. Do it. Write it on your bathroom mirrors and like try your race marker.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Or get a sticky note and like write it on there and slap it on like mini sticky notes. Put them all over your house.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

I have a sticker. I I'm sure you've seen them. Those little silver stickers that little rectangles that say you are beautiful. Oh yeah, yeah. I have like 50 of them. And I have one on my laptop. Get some stickers like that and put them on your computer. Put them somewhere where you'll see it all the time on your phone case or your water bottle. Because you know what? Y'all are amazing.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Yes, you are amazing. We love, honor, and believe in you. Like I said, we're talking to Iris today about self-love, self-healing, all that sort of thing. I thought it would be fun to talk about crystals and herbs for self-love and shadow work to support your inner journey. She's written some amazing books. I mean, she's got like her whole witchy series. Several actually, witchy fiction series. But she's also written a couple books on there's one I literally I think it's literally called Self-Love Magic: Learning to Love Yourself and Connect with Yourself and Your Witchy Badassness. And then she's got one that's more on shadow work, which that's the one I'm kind of like working through. But we haven't talked about magic rocks very much lately.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

We haven't. We talked about magic rocks a lot at the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

And then I kind of went by the wayside. We got busy with other things, I think. But I have so many things. Yeah. But there's like so many like magical rocks and herbs and things that can assist you with this sort of journey of self-love and healing. Of course, we all know about Rose Quartz. I mean, uh maybe we don't, but it's a beautiful, beautiful pink stone that's the classic crystal for self-love. I mean, you just look at it and it looks like a love crystal, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

It really does. I have a little heart-shaped one that um Sam gave me once.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Uh before we were friend friends, before we were coven friends. I got a uh when I was merely a massage client. She gave me a little rose quartz heart. And I've since lost the index card that it came with that said something nice on it. Yeah. But I still have my tiny heart shape on my altar.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

But it literally is known as the Love Stone. And um, it has a really gentle energy. It you know connects with your heart chakra, uh like helping open it to giving and receiving unconditional love and fostering self-love and attracting aligned love, whether it's friendship or romantic. So, um, and you know, like uh s I know pro Sam probably does this with crystal healing, but a lot of crystal healers and people that work with the chakras use rose quartz for that heart chakra. It's a pretty classic. So um I wonder though, are there other powerful crystals for self-love?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

I'm sure there are, Shaya. A couple might be.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

I didn't want to just go off. You know me, I can go off on a monologue if you don't like rein me the.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

I know I was ready for I was I was I was letting you monologue. You know more about crystals than I do. I was either I was prepared for the herbs. I was I was ready for it. I I I can yeah I know more crystals because you wrote them down for me.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Okay, well then I will go on and talk about the crystals then because you are ready for the herbs. So rhodocrosite is I think if I remember it was kind of a ready purpley, I don't know. It's um for healing your inner child and boosting your sense of self-worth. So if you struggle with your sense of self-worth or you have a lot of past trauma from childhood that kind of affects you, that's a good one. Rhodonite, um, I have that actually in a necklace, and it is an emotional healer that actually. What is this? It's I think it's uh like a reddish purple uh hang on, Rhodonite.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

We'll have pictures of all of this on our socials.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah, it's it's a red it's like a dark reddish pink kind of a color. Well, it's really pretty. It's an emotional healer that helps with self-forgiveness and releasing past pain. And they also the necklace that I have, there's like three different crystals in it. Rhodonites, one of them. Uh, and it's actually meant for physical pain, so it works really well with other crystals to address all aspects of pain. Green adventuring, which I have right here on this ring.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

That is such a beautiful ring. Will you um pop a picture of that into the drive? I will share it with others.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

Yes, it's green, so it's just a simple green adventuring stone in this silver ring, which is one of my favorite rings. And green adventuring is one of my favorite stones, it's a beautiful green color, sort of it tends to kind of be a little bit of a lighter green, but it's uh got again soothing energy, it's promotes harmony, compassion, and comfort within your own heart. During these times of nonsense and malarchy, having having a stone that offers you peace and comfort is r and just gives you peace in your heart is I think really imp it's certainly important for me. And one one more is white moonstone. Now, this is like such a badass like feminine stone. Moonstone is like the feminine stone, and it's for radical self-acceptance, it's calming, it's healing, it helps you to to connect with the divine feminine. It's a crown chakra stone, and it it like helps you sort of move with the natural rhythms of life because it's tied to that moon energy and that feminine energy, which you know, ancient peoples that was you know the cycle they they moved with life's rhythm instead of creating an artificial one. And this kind of white moonstone kind of harks back toward that. If you want more information about crystals for self-love, because there's so many, I'll pop a well Amy will pop a link into our show notes. Um, Juliet Christine has a really great blog about crystals, and she's one of her posts she lists quite a few, and I found that really helpful. There's also herbs.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

There are herbs.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Herbs, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

So there's a lot of different herbs that can support you as you're working through your journey of self-love and support. Uh, a few that come up over and over when you Google this are tulci, which is also known as holy basil, which is it, it's from Ayurvedic practices, and it's it is known, it is known, um, as the most sacred plant in the world. I don't have a source for how that is known, other than I I've seen it on two websites, but they don't cite their sources.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

But when I finish, when I finish talking about the herbs, I have something I want to add to that. Tulsi is supposed to infuse you with divine energy for your body, your mind, and your soul. Hawthorne, Hawthorne flowers, especially, uh, carry a symbolic message of love and compassion. Their hawthorn is very often associated with the heart, and so it can help open your heart chakra, which can foster more self-love as well as um compassion for the world and interconnectedness. Chamomile, I mean, we all, we all, many of us know that chamomile is recommended as a soothing ingredient in tea.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Indeed. I have many teas with chamomile in them. Rose. Rose.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

It's a perfect herb for self-love. I don't know what's an herb. I'm just reading now. It brings a strong heart connection. Rose is, it helps heal the heart, open the heart, and bring in more love. Strawberry leaf and strawberries are symbols of self-love and growth. Anything that you associate with love doesn't have to be romantic love. It can be self-love. Absolutely. Strawberries also embody renewal and emotional healing. And then skull cap offers serenity and it helps, it's another calming herb. Okay. And then oat straw is nourishing and it can help soothe and calm your nervous system. So there's a lot of different ways these can be used, and not all of them can be used in the same way. But tinctures, teas, water infusions, baths, uh in the body, on the body, I guess near the body, are all different things. And it kind of depends on what part of yourself you want to nourish and love. There's things that'll work better on the nervous system. Lavender and the Tulsi, the holy basil, uh, can really help with calming the nervous system and and promoting that relaxation. The heart ones like rose, uh, cacao is listed because they have compounds in them that help do mood lifting and help with the heart. And they support connection and pleasure, and that's really good for your heart. And then there's things for resilience, and that's things I haven't mentioned yet, like ashwagandha, which uh can help um kind of slow your mind down a little bit sometimes. Um, I know some people take it to help them sleep, and it can help you kind of reconnect with your body when you're exhausted. There's things if you need to, this says here on this website that I found digestion is often overlooked, but you must love yourself from the inside out. So this is looking at things like chamomile, which is soothing for the mind and for the body, marshmallow root, dandelion root. And then the best thing you can do is just to take time for yourself. Yes. It should be a daily practice.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Self-care, daily practice. It's not just about getting your nails done. Although, no shade if you want to get your nails done, if that's your self-care.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

You do that too.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yeah. But it's it's also simply about taking time to nourish yourself in all ways, like physical, mental, that's how you get your alone time, and if that's what helps you restore and reset, then that's fabulous.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Yeah. But you don't have to. Like it, you know, some people feel this pressure, like, I must do this thing to do self-care. There's no must. No, there's no must. Self-care could be a walk in the park or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

The only must is you must find something.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Yes. But but you do you.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Whatever works for you. Yes, you do you boo. I did want to say that we're probably starting this autumn in 2026. Starting um with our mini stoves, we're gonna start working in some stuff on plants and green witchery. And so, well, nice. I have a lot of stuff to say about how herbs can be used to support yourself and your magical journey as well as your self-care journey so that you're ready to take over the world with us. Yeah. So look for that starting this fall when we um start transitioning away from our witch's liquor cabinet and into our witch's spice cabinet.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

I am excited.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

But I do want to make a patio garden.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Patio garden. Yes. I do want to make a quick note. We are not medical practitioners.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

So if you I am not.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Um so you know uh uh we're not don't consider in, you know, nothing that we say is medical advice. You need to seek medical uh a medical opinion before, you know, you start treating mental health with something or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

So yeah. And also, if you're going to start taking a an herb or or something like that, that um internally, um, you know, you can put them, you can wash in them or put them on your windowsill, that's no problem. But if you start once you like take ashwagandha or something like that, or Tulsi or you know, even like uh, you know, dandelion root or something, any of those things, if you're taking them internally, you need to speak to a medical professional first, particularly if you're on medications, because some of those things can interfere with medications, certain medications. So you want to make sure that you do that.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Um, we're just and there are also, yeah, I just want to say there's also fabulous resources out there, medically sound fabulous resources, that will help you find contraindications. Yes. If you are a person in the United States and you cannot get your doctor to talk to you about contraindications with your medication, pharmacists are a great resource for that as well. Yes, they are. Pharmacists say a lot of Western doctors are not going to be good at knowing contraindications between medications that they prescribe that are Western medicine and herbs and herbal supplements that are not. Um, if you're having a cup of chamomile tea, you're probably fine. Yeah. But if you're starting like some kind of, I don't know, hosey basil. Hosey basil.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Hosy basil.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Holy basil, I don't know, ritual. Yeah. Um, and I when I've taken ashwaganda, it has been with the knowledge and advice of my psychiatrist. I I didn't it didn't work for me, but you know, some people like it. So just make sure that you are going into this with an with open eyes and doing the best research for yourself. And it is good to get a medical practitioner involved if you are on prescription medications. Yes. And I will say in the state I am not a psychiatrist.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

No. Um, I will say in the state of Oregon, uh, other states not so much, but in the state of Oregon, naturopaths are legally treated the same as MDs. They uh and so they have the same, they're also allowed to prescribe medications, not just herbs. So they do know naturopaths are really good at knowing contraindications between these things and what things will work together okay. Um, so if you have that option, that's a great option as well. But I just want to throw that in there because I want to make sure people, you know, are not sue us.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Yeah. Oh, don't harm themselves. Don't harm themselves.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Exactly, exactly, exactly. So today's drinks, speaking of self-care and herbs.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Well, we had usually our guests will say, we'll say, What's your favorite cocktail or mocktail? And they'll be like, This, and like, wait, we'll drink that or a variation thereof. But Iris said, Well, I like floral flavors and what did she say, and tanginess?

SPEAKER_03 18:42

And tanginess, like yeah, and turnness, something like that. Yeah, and she specifically loved like rose and elderflower. Those were like her two favorites, but like anything floral, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

So yeah. Did you invent your own cocktail in Iris in Iris of Honor? In honor of Iris? As we learned when we interviewed Heather Harris. Yes. We make words come from fingers, not faces.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Um, yes, so I found I basically sort of created my own cocktail, but I I um I chose Elderflower because I happened to have Elderflower Liqueur. And um I found a recipe online that someone had created called the Part-Time Lover. And I thought that was hilarious, and I loved the um recipe because I also wanted to do something with tequila, just because I I don't know. Tequila's delicious. Tequila's delicious. I don't use tequila very often. I had a bottle of tequila, really good tequila. So, this is an elder flower drink. It's sort of, I would say, similar in flavor to like a margarita. Um, but the energy is emotional healing, self-worth, and positive vibes. It's one and a half ounces of Blanco or silver tequila, three-quarter ounce of lemon juice. You can, you know, uh squeeze it fresh, fresh at squeeze.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Or, you know, we're both messed up.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

I know. Storebot is fine, you know. Half an ounce of elderflower liqueur, such as Saint Germain. I actually upped that a little bit with the second drink because I felt the first one didn't have quite the elderflower that I wanted. So I did three-quarters for this one. The first time I used a white sweet vermouth and added like a splash of grenadine for color, but this time I actually had some red sweet vermouth on hand, so I used that. Two dashes, orange bitters, and you just place everything in a cocktail shaker with ice, shake it till it's icy cold, and pour it into a coupe glass. And voila! There you go.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

What did did you like the red sweet vermouth better than the white sweet vermouth with grenadine?

SPEAKER_03 21:09

I think I liked the white sweet vermouth with grenadine better, actually. It was a little bit, I think, sweeter for me. So, like if you like something more tangy and and tart, the red sweet vermouth would be great. Um, I think because with the white sweet vermouth adding the grenadine, the grenadine is sweet, so it added more sweetness. So, um, and also I think um white sweet vermouth is just it tastes sweeter to me. It tastes lighter and sweeter to me. Um, that's just my perception.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

I don't know if that's actually a fact, but um yeah, I I don't know, so I think it sounds like a fact.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

But actually, either way, it's very delicious. It has this really light undertone of floral, it's tangy, it has this. Little bit. Oh, I did actually put a tiny pinch of salt at this time because I was like, it really needs just a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny pinch of salt. And I put that in the shaker and and gave it a shake along with that. And it was actually it actually added salt.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

I can't believe ever since I saw this this YouTube channel that I like to watch, um Kevin Coz, and he always has his saline solution, yeah, and he just keeps, and he puts like a little dropper of it in every cocktail almost. And the difference that it makes when I remember to put it in is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

It's ridiculous. Like, because I tasted it the first time without it, and I went, you know what this needs? It needs a little salt. So I just put a little just a tiny little pinch into this into the shaker and and shook it really good again until it was super icy. And that was perfect. But yeah, saline is easier because you I just need to get a dropper bottle and start getting saline. Um, we've talked about the ingredients and their magical properties before, but elder flower specifically is for uh banishing negative energies as a protection against evil influences. There's uh like emotional healing via the release of fear, it cools anger, it calms worries, it fosters self-worth, attracts positive energy, joy, and prosperity. And I was like, okay, that is a perfect vibe for Iris' magic uh and and her books. So I it's really delicious, definitely has sort of a margarita-esque sort of thing going on.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Well, and from what I remember from when I drank lots of tequila in my early 20s, I definitely felt a lot of self-love and self-confidence after drinking it. I love tequila, y'all. So I went with the rose flavor for my cocktail. And my cocktail, I don't have a name for it yet. But I'm gonna put, I'm gonna come up with some ideas and I'm gonna put them at the end of the YouTube video. They'll be on our Insta, and you guys can vote. We can vote what to name this cocktail. Yay! And I need you guys to know it's the prettiest cocktail I have ever made in my entire freaking life. It is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Oh, yeah. When she sent me the photo, I was like, holy shit, it looks like a follow- a folo. A follow shoot.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

It looks like a we are messed up, and I haven't even had half a cocktail yet.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Oh my gosh. Uh, yeah, it looks like a photo shoot. Like it's just so pretty. I don't think I've ever seen such a pretty cocktail.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Yeah. So mine is gin-based because as we have discussed, gin is the best liquor. I like other liquors, but gin is number one. Um, so mine has gin, and I'll put all the measurements and everything in the in the show notes. Gin, and then a combination of rose syrup and lemon juice. Oh, okay. So I made rose simple syrup by taking rosebuds and and uh I was gonna say marinating them. No, I put them in the simple syrup for a while. And the first time I did it, my partner was like, this is not rosy enough. And I'm so sensitive to floral flavors that I didn't want to overdo it, so I underdid it. So I'm still on the fence, and that's why measurements are not being vocalized right now. Because before this airs, I'm gonna give it one more go to see if I can get the proportions a little bit better.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

But gin, roast syrup, lemon juice, an eighth of a teaspoon of beetroot powder.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Okay, and an egg white, and then espirant. So everything but the espirant goes into the cocktail shaker, no ice. And you shake the baby for 30 seconds or so, and then you carefully take the top off of the shaker because you've created a lot of happiness in there with the egg white. I mean, you've seen maybe what happens when you whip egg white. Yeah. Coffee. And then you put ice in, and then you put the lid back on, you shake it again, and then you struggle for the next 45 to 60 seconds to get the top off. Because it won't come off now, because now it's peeled, and you're like, ah, why won't this come off? And you're recording this for posterity, right? And now you can't take all the vocals out of that because you're swearing at the shaker. And then, and then you strain it into a coupe glass and you top it very slowly with Esplumante, which is Portuguese sparkling wine, or wobbles of your choice. So, and it's and then I garnished it with rosebuds. Dried rosebuds, and it was so pretty.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

So it's kind of like a French 75-ish situation, a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Kind of, but it's got the egg whites. Yeah. And that makes it a little bit different. That makes it kind of a that makes it a fizz. Although a traditional fizz is topped with club soda and not um prosecco or estimate. But you know what? I do what I want. And I want prosecco or estimate or I wouldn't have champagne or champagne you drink by itself. Um, so we've talked again, we've talked about gin, we've talked about the lemon juice, we know what simple syrup does. But rose, roses are used to attract love, enhance beauty, promote healing, they boost your confidence, they raise your vibrations, and they enhance interpes. Egg white, which is not something that we talked about, we have before. And eggs magically can bring forth a lot of good energy and abundance, but they also can be used to banish negative energy. And there's whole egg rituals out there, y'all. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

I did not know about the banishments. I knew about some other, like, you know, interesting egg rituals, but like I did not know you could use them for banishments.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

And they're obviously a fertility symbol.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

But they have such duality. The egg whites can bring this abundance and protection. And then beetroot, even though I didn't use very much, I wanted to look it up because also we don't talk about beetroot. And beetroot is, you know, it's a it's a root vegetable, so it brings a lot of grounding and balance, but also because it's red, a lot of red stuff is associated with love and abundance. So the energy of this cocktail ends up being abundance and love and self-love and protection and healing. Because you've got that gin and that lemon juice in there, too. You've got like so we both need very much love yourself cocktails, which is perfect. Totally. Why is that perfect?

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Because we're gonna talk to Iris, big old, about magic, real magic, and self-love. Yes. Woo!

SPEAKER_02 29:00

So shall we go talk to her? Let's go! I have to go to New Zealand. Be right back. Be right back. Hey everyone, I am so excited to welcome Iris Beaglehole to the pod today. Iris is many peculiar things. A writer, researcher, analyst, druid, witch, parent, and would-be astrologer. She loves tea, cats, herbs, and writing quirky characters. I have been low-key stalking Iris for a while. Same Z insta. And I don't know how low-key it is. I um it's pretty low. I think it's low-key. I don't think she knew until this moment.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Until this moment that we were stalking.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

I mean, because I will say we both were in strong agreement when we first started uh the pod, like Lowies many years ago, like one, two, I don't remember. One and a half. One and a half. Um, we're like, you know who would be awesome? Iris Beagle. She would be awesome. So, yes, we have been wanting to chat with you for a while. So I am gonna ask you the most important question you will probably ever be asked on any podcast.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Or anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Or anywhere, probably in life. Do you have a favorite cocktail?

SPEAKER_04 30:36

Thank you. I'm glad you asked. Um, so when when people ask me this, I usually go for something that is that is floral and that is tangy and that um preferably has like alderflower or rose or something like that in it. Uh so that's what I'll look for on a cocktail menu. Or if I'm somewhere where they don't have something like that, I'll usually ask for it, and they can usually make something which is part of the magic.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Yes. Ah, I love that because that's exactly what we did. Usually someone gives us a specific drink. But when Amy sent me the brief, I was like, oh yes. I know the brief. I make it sound so like professional. It was like, Iris likes these things. Okay. So I made a, it's called The Part-Time Lover. And it's essentially an elder flower margarita with only um, it's got like some vermouth in it. So um it's just basically tequila vermouth. I put in a tiny bit of homemade pomegranate syrup, uh, grenadine just for color, and uh lemon juice and um elderflower. It's delicious. It is very tangy and floral. And Amy, what did you create?

SPEAKER_02 32:10

I have a as yet to be named Iz that I invented specifically for today. Um I will I will name it after something that comes up in this conversation. It's gin and rose syrup and lemon juice and egg white and top it with uh estimate. That's awesome. Oh, and beetroot for color. But only a little bit. They both look really good. It was so fun.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

It was really fun. It was fun, fun to like do something a little bit different and like have to experiment and create our own our own thing. So excited.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Jay An accelerated super into kitchen witchery and does a lot of cocktail magic. So this is totally her jam. And she's um slowly converted me into somebody who will invent my own cocktails as well. And it's been quite the journey, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

It's been a lot of fun. And you know, of course, I'm I I'm like, we have to do cocktails for our podcast, so we have an excuse to make cocktails, right? And they go with witchery and books and everything. I just love it.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Absolutely, they're a potion.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Exactly. That's what I always I like. Oh, I'm my boyfriend will come down and be like, I need a potion because for creativity. Do you have something for creativity? And I'm like, I've got many things for creativity. So it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Speaking of journeys, why don't you tell us a little bit about your other journey?

SPEAKER_04 34:03

Sure. Uh so I started writing um Cozy Witches in about 2020. I had been writing a whole range of things before that, some more paranormal-y things and some more um kind of like um women's fiction with kind of spiritual themes. It was actually during the lockdowns that a bunch of friends were really interested in writing something really cozy. And I've I've been a witch for a really long time. And so when they were they were saying, let's let's write like cozy witch novellas, I was like, Oh, this sounds really good. I started and I just haven't haven't stopped since then because it just I love it because I can incorporate all of the magical things that I've been learning about for my whole life, and I can dive into mythology, and I can kind of um I also love that you know when you're creating something cozy for people, you're creating a really nice, relaxing, kind of nourishing experience that there can also be lots of deep things going on in there, but it can also be like quite gentle and um not too dramatic when we live in a world where there's just so much stuff all the time.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Yeah. Yes. I that's how I kind of feel about that. Like the whole the whole cozy paranormal witchy vibe. It's so it's so nourishing to the soul, both to write and to read. I just I it's it's like our sub I call this my subversive little fiction. Because people don't know that they're getting all cozy and lovely and then they're learning something magical. I just love it. Um so that's you also more recently put out some nonfiction books about witchcraft and which is I um I've been reading uh Awakening the W Wild Witch and then also I just started your course. She's also has a course about about you know how to like sort of inquir like it's it get in touch with your own magic, right? And kind of do shadow work and that sort of thing. Obviously you've kind of worked some of that magic into your fiction, but kind of tell us how it came about that you went you're writing your fiction and then you decided to do like some non-fiction about the same topic, really.

SPEAKER_04 36:42

Yeah, well it's interesting because when I first started writing um a book when I was about 20 years old, I wanted to write nonfiction, but I was 20 and I was trying to write a self-help book about how I'd kind of drawn on magic and spirituality to recover from depression. And nobody really wants to read a self-help book by a 20-year-old. At least I felt so much like cringe, I think the word is. Yeah, and so I was like, okay, maybe I can write fictional characters who are like drawing on this wisdom, so it's not me. Because it was it was really just self-consciousness. Sure. It took me a long time with writing to feel really confident. Um, and then it was like uh the the year that I turned 40, so I'm like gonna be 42 this year. The year that I turned 40, I just had this inspiration that I was like, oh, I'm gonna write a book about real magic, and it's gonna be kind of for my fiction readers, but it's also gonna be a whole lot of other stuff, and then it just kind of poured out like all of the stuff that I've been learning about for so many years. There's a lot of astrology and kitchen witchery and um like how to kind of how to create magical things your yourself, like so. I feel like I don't like formulaic um kind of like spell books where you have to get these particular ingredients. I feel like it's magic is a creative process. Yeah, and yeah, so I so I started doing that, and then in the process of doing that, I ended up um also getting quite interested in um writing about um like the the magic of self-love because that was a really big part of my journey. So I ended up writing um nonfiction about that too. Uh and I think it's one of those things that everyone tells you you have to love yourself, but like how, yeah. I've been learning about that for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Same. Same. I started learning about that about oh, I was probably about mid-30s, and I'm in my early 50s now, and I'm still learning. But the older I get, the better it gets. So you know, yeah, the more you love yourself and the less you care about what other people think. But yeah, I love that because like I've even though I'm I'm a baker, that I love to bake, so which is very formulaic. You have to really know what you're doing if you're gonna start substituting things. Things could go very wrong. Um but that's what I love uh when I started doing the cocktail magic. That's what I loved because I was like, well, I don't have this, so what can I use instead of that? And um some things do go a little awry. At least as far as flavor goes. Um, but the intention is always I love that it's always the intention, you know, of of mixing that up. So I I love that that you talk about like I was um reading through a passage last night and you talk about like how we are creating magic all the time. Whether we know it or not. It's just what we're and I just love that. Like I didn't even I mean I kinda I guess I kind of knew that, but I hadn't really thought of it in that way, so it was like a really kind of an aha moment and it was really cool. So um maybe you can how tell us like sort of like um what you think about like about that, about how we're creating like sort of unconsciously all the time.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

Sure, yeah. Well, I have quite uh a magical approach to understanding the world because I feel like there's so much, there's so much mystery, there's so much that we don't understand, but what our minds try to do is create a really simple story. Um, but it's it's not scientifically very true either. Like, you know, pretty much everything that we think is solid is actually mostly space. Yeah, like we don't actually ever touch anything scientifically, like we live in this extremely mysterious world, and yet we kind of there's something in um us that wants to make everything very kind of certain and limited, and and yet there's like there's so many possibilities, and and so much like, for example, the way that we think and the way that we talk about ourselves and the stories that we tell about our lives, that's shaping our whole experience of reality. Yeah. So if we have have a story about ourselves that we don't like, it's sometimes there's like something stuck there, and it can be interesting to figure out how to shift it because you can't just kind of go, Oh, I'm just gonna think happy thoughts, because that doesn't work. Right. Yeah, you kind of have to figure out, you know, it's it's like pulling weeds in the garden. Sometimes you kind of have to get down to the root and there's some kind of pain underneath it, there's some kind of like childhood thing. Sometimes it's like there's there's things around the outside of it. Um, so yeah, I I think a lot of um like when I when I say we're always doing magic, it's just mostly accidental. It's because we're we're always we're always creating the story about our lives and about ourselves. Like every every moment that we're conscious, and we have actually a huge amount of influence over that, but to change it and to shift out of our default way of thinking and seeing and and um telling the story requires to do a whole lot of different things. It requires a whole lot of experimentation often to figure out. Um, but you know, it does it totally shapes, and there's like there's quite a lot of um evidence that I I love um evidence as well, because I feel like spirituality isn't really, yeah, because it can get so ungrounded and you can get all this really like spacey stuff. And I I don't know, I find it unhelpful when people I I feel like there's a lot of spiritual bypassing that then doesn't really get the results. Right, yeah. Um so but there's a whole lot of evidence to show that like people who identify as more lucky because they're kind of in that kind of mindset. If that they uh there's an experiment that where they did a test to see how optimistic or lucky they felt, and then on the way out, there was money on the ground, uh-huh, and the people who identified as more lucky noticed the money that was on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Money, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

And the people who didn't didn't notice it because their focus was so narrow. Yes, and so they weren't open to the opportunities. So there's like, and there's a whole lot of amazing research on like the nocebo effect and all that kind of stuff, and you're like, wow, like if you get given a lucky charm and you go into a test, you're gonna do better. Even if you don't believe in lucky charms.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Like because somewhere in there there's like, well, maybe it works.

SPEAKER_04 44:07

And yeah, there's something going on there.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

And it's so wild. I got given a lucky charm. Um when I went to the a new um oh it's Oficina de Bruja opened. It's uh the witch's laboratory. I'm pretty sure is how that translates down the street. And so I went there and I bought some candles and a couple other things. And when I was getting ready to leave, she's like, oh, here, take one of these charms. And she gave me a lucky charm. And it's like this little pouch, and it has a folded-up bay leaf and a little gold four-leaf clover in it, and it's all tied up. And so I'm like, oh, well, no, I haven't I should be carrying it around with me.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

You should be. Everywhere you go. Stick it in your bra. With your rock with your magic rocks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

I'm not putting it in my bra because it's gonna be scratchy.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

I have a friend that puts like crystals in her bra.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Because she's like not me.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

It's someone else. And she's like, yeah, it just is an easy place to store them, and that way they're always on me. And I'm like, I think hers are a little bit smaller than that.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

I don't actually have big boobs. I just giant crystal balls.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Oh god, we're oh yeah. I just I love that. I I love that because I've I've sort of like there's that quote, and I'm totally blanking on that dude that said it, like some old white dude. But he said, whether whether you think you can or think you can't, either way, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Yes, it's a racist old white dude. Um, but I know who it is.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Yes. Um, unfortunately, yeah, probably. But he was right about that. He was not right about the racism, but he was right about or the anti-Semitism. Oh god, no. Yes, but he was right about that. But he was right about that one thing.

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Even if Job Clark is right twice a day.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

That's absolutely true.

SPEAKER_04 46:28

Well, it's like that um that saying, argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Oh that's a new one. I hadn't heard that one, but that's like, whoa. I don't want to keep my limitations. I don't like them. Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

You said that as a young person. Um, that you were wanted to write your self-help book as a 20 20-year-old about using uh magic to get through depression. So that leads me to believe that this has been a path you've been on for at least 20 years. Um so kind of what started you down that path? Were you raised that way? Is that the traditions you were raised in?

SPEAKER_04 47:20

Or no, I grew up in quite an academic kind of atheist sort of family. And I I was immersed um a bit in our um indigenous culture in New Zealand, but that was not my culture because I'm not indigenous, but I I definitely grew up around that, and um I feel like that was probably quite an influence on me, and I think that's probably one of the things that unconsciously led me towards like connecting with pagan traditions because I felt like that was more like my ancestral traditions before they were colonized by religion and the you know imperialism and so on. Um, but I I when I was a kid, I got really depressed. I had a lot of trauma. Yay! Um a lot of yeah, I had a lot of psychological trauma for the most part, and I had I just I didn't realize that at the time, I was just very depressed, and um I was quite drawn to spirituality, even though I didn't really grow up with that as part of my family. Um, and when I was uh a teenager, I discovered that I could be a witch, and that was very exciting to me. And so I just I kind of immersed myself in anything I could find, which wasn't really a lot at that time, especially in New Zealand, but just I was just revenous for it. I was going on like Netscape Navigator and looking up witchy stuff and good old navigator!

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Those were the days.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

Yeah, and I um yeah, I I managed to find uh a counselor who was also trained as a Celtic shamanist, which was amazing. That's so cool. So when I was 16, I was um going to um spending an hour a week with Fiona, and she was taking me through like journeying, like meditations and introducing me to spiritual literature that I was I was so ravenous for that kind of thing, and I wasn't really I wasn't really aware of a lot of the trauma stuff at that point. Yeah, but I would just knew that this was helping with my depression. So yeah, so it was a whole big journey um from from that into finally kind of addressing all of this childhood stuff that was just I I mean trauma just stays in your body. Yeah, it really does.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

It really does. Like I thought it was. And then, you know, doing all of this, um I mean I knew I was a witch fairly young. I didn't um label it till later, and then I didn't actually follow it deliberately until much later. But yeah, there was like I thought I dealt with the trauma, and but now the more I dig, the more like oh yeah, okay. Yeah, this is still bothering you. You still need to deal with this. I'm like, what the come on?

SPEAKER_04 50:42

There can be just so many layers of it, right? Like I the last couple of years I've just been on this really intense deep dive into trauma and perimenopause, which has been amazing.

unknown 50:54

Yeah, my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 50:56

Which is partly what led to the the shadow work cause. But um, even since then I've gotten into younger and younger layers, and I feel like I'm finally kind of emerging from the underworld, from my like you know, like very young infancy trauma stuff, and it's actually it's so beautiful to be able to do that and to be able to hold your younger self at like all these different levels and attuned yourself the way that you probably didn't get all the attunement and care and love that you needed because nobody actually knew how to parent.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

No, especially not, you know, those of us in the Gen X who had like boomer parents are um it's just like it was an accent, yeah, uh elder millennials. Yeah, same thing. We pretty much all have either boomer or silent generation parents. And it yeah, it's like they just it was a different world. They didn't know about they didn't either know about trauma or they didn't realize it was trauma, they didn't realize it was like nobody knew about it. Yeah, that there was no we didn't really know about generational trauma, we didn't know about a lot of things. And on the one hand, they were doing the best they could, and then sometimes, and then on the other hand, it was like trauma city, you know.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Well, it was only in the 70s that they started researching like war PTSD, and they didn't want to use the word trauma because they thought it was weak, you know, with with soldiers and stuff. They're like, oh no, we can't. They'll we'll just say there's shell shock. And then it's only recently that people have been discovering that it's it's not just like a war or a serious attack or something that that stays in the system, it's like anything that doesn't get processed out. And yeah, there's like generations of people who are, you know, we've all been affected by generations who have been in wars um before us, but also like the the dominant parenting ideology for like the you know the whole 1900s was basically just leave babies, just like try not to spoil them, yeah. Spoil the babies so bad or something. So just don't pick them up and then cry, don't attune to them, which is absolutely what we need. And you know, like the way that we evolved in like nomadic, very tight-knit societies, babies were being carried all the time, and they were being rocked all the time, and everyone was so integrated, and every time there was a shock to the tribe, there were rituals, there was all of these things that we're now calling nervous system regulation. There was chanting and humming and coming together and processing, and we just lost all of that. Yeah, and I mean, um not that I'm saying everyone should be wearing their babies all the time because that's like so exhausting. Like, who can do that? I don't know. Well, they had a whole village, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:00

They had a whole village to patch the baby around. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

And I think that's like so much of where we're going wrong is this really individualized, like so disconnected kind of society that we're in.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

And I feel is that attitude pervasive in New Zealand? Um, I know in the United States individualism and exceptionalism are prioritized so much, especially in white um Christian, Protestant specifically cultures. And uh I've noticed since I moved to Portugal that there seems to be a lot more emphasis on family and community groups here. And I'm wondering in New Zealand, is it's that individualism, is that is that something that is that seems disproportionate to what the needs of the community should be?

SPEAKER_04 54:54

Yeah, it's probably not quite as extreme as in a lot of parts of the state, and a lot of yeah, but and and definitely in in like Māori, like our indigenous um communities, there's a lot more um kind of collectivism and focus on like Fano, which is like extended family and and that kind of thing. Uh but I do I do think it's like all over the the Western world there's there's such an individualistic focus. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

Yeah, and it's hard to do that.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

But it's nice to hear there's more community in Portugal.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Yeah, that is nice. And I think that what I'm seeing, I'm seeing this a lot in online spaces with women, especially uh again, elder millennial and gen X women, are like starting to build these matriarchal spaces and these community spaces. And um more of us are reaching out. Like I have, you know, I mean, we have our coven that we was starting doing rituals together, even and Amy will be in the in the in Portugal coming through the laptop and we'll and we'll be over here doing, you know. And um so I think the need is we we've clearly recognized that need, and we're trying to build toward something better.

SPEAKER_04 56:19

Yeah, absolutely, and same same here, like and there's lots of beautiful community things that are happening in like different pockets of it, and I love like going to my um women's full moon ceremonies and just like being in this group of women of all these different ages and experiences, and it's just like it's that's it's such a beautiful thing. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

I love that. Um I would love to do some of those things. Um, so oh all right. Oh, okay. So the book going back to your fiction a little bit. I read it, it was the very first one that you published, and I apologize. I think it was it accidental magic or okay, yeah. I got it right. Woohoo! I just remember one of the things I remember the most is the nutty uh mayor of the town just bananas. And then I love the the witch that lives out in the forest and her like little her little spoon that keeps stirring and her magical little garden. And um this cozy little town. Uh I just love there was just some there's some nutballs in that town. But um, so obviously you incorporated some magic into that, and then that wasn't enough for you because you wrote another series and then another, I can't keep up with you. It's so great. So do all of your books like do they all sort of are they all connected? Is it all the same world or yeah?

SPEAKER_04 57:57

I think uh all the ones that I have published under yeah, under ISPGall, which is a pen name, it's a family name, but it's a pen name. Um uh it's actually a Cornish name because I have a lot of Cornish heritage and um yeah. And um, yeah, all of all of the books are in the same world at the moment. Uh so there is some crossovers, like characters will like appear in in different different series. Uh, I kind of like that. I feel like as a reader, I find that satisfying. So yeah, the accidental magic's part of the middlewood mysteries. Each book is based on a different seasonal festival, so it sort of starts it in bulk and then it goes through all the different seasonal festivals, and I've been celebrating the seasons for a long time. So I feel like there's so many ways you can do it. Like I'm part of a druid grove where every now and then I will volunteer to lead a ritual co-lead. We usually have a couple of people, and it's such a creative process. So, you know, say it's the autumn equinox, and you kind of go, okay, well, what is it about the autumn equinox that I really want to focus on? And was like the balance between light and dark. So maybe we'll get, you know, light and dark cloth for the altar, and then we'll have some scales, and then we'll bring, you know, what it like, it's really like such a process to kind of come up with what the working is going to be like, or what kind of meditation you want to bring in. And so it's kind of fun to bring that into the books. And sometimes I find there's this overlap where I'll end up like for in my Motorwood Crohn series, there's the winter solstice, and they end up the crones end up like rolling around in the mud because they're in the swamp, you know, the swamp being symbolic of when you're in like the swamp of life. Yeah, also you can kind of enjoy it. And I ended up writing a meditation based on that scene that I then used when I was running the um the winter solstice for my grove with some friends, and I like got everyone to like roll around in the muck in the meditation.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

That is awesome. I love that. That's so great. Like, I have had people ask me, are the spells in your books real? And I'm like, Whoa. They could be. I mean, they could be. Like, I, you know, they're not necessarily I know I don't necessarily do all the I put a lot more ritual into my books than I probably do in real life because I'm kind of uh eclectic sort of a little bit lazy. Like I just like to do my thing and like so I don't bother writing words. I do that for the books, but I'm like, it's about intent, man. If you do that spell with intent, it's gonna work. So yeah. Uh they're not my spells, but they're I mean, anything's real, right? Just how you create it. So, but I just love that, that you're inspired by a real by your fiction to make it real, and then by reality to make it fiction. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:16

Yeah, yeah, I've definitely done the other way around where I've already written a meditation for like Sawin, and then I'm like, oh, I can bring that into the Salin book and put that into the ritual that I need to write. It's like multi-purpose. You just celebrated Salin.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

Yeah, you can get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:36

Yes, although I was I was away. Yeah, I was away, so I didn't get to go to my grove Sawin. But then we had um a really beautiful full moon um ritual, just actually closer to the date of Sawin anyway. So I felt like I did get to celebrate Sawin and I brought like the bell that used to hang in front of my grandparents' house, like on the door bell. I brought along, and like, yeah, that was pretty so cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:02

Oh, that's so cool. It was uh so funny because like we have to remember when we're talking about like various, you know, when we're talking about Beltane or whatever, that like the opposite is being celebrated on the other side of the world.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:18

So I feel like I'm always celebrating both at once because most of my ratings are in the northern hemisphere. So I'm like happy Beltane slash sewing.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

And we've started kind of like well, uh, we have um some podcasts that are specific to you know whichever uh celebration it is, but then we try to put both dates, the dates for both hemispheres. We try to remember to do that. But of course, we we also have to remember that Christmas is on the same day no matter what I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:49

I said that last year when it was Yule, it was Lita here, and we're talking about Yule, and I was like, Oh yeah, but it's Christmas, and now and I said it at least twice, and I know when Christmas is.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:04

Christmas is still in December, regardless of the hemisphere. Yeah, we can have a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:09

But now it's just a joke that I have in my own heart that it is a joke, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:14

Yeah, so now it's our joke about how you know in the in the southern hemisphere they they celebrate December in.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

There is no Christmas. There is no Christmas. It's like Narnia now. I have to say I've been so impressed with the depth and breadth of information in Awakening the Wild Witch. Like, there's so much information in there, and it's so thorough and detailed, and there's it's it's really fantastic to see this level of information that kind of covers like so so much. You have astrology and you have kitchen witchery and abundance magic. Um and I like delectable magic. Is that what it's called? Delectable, yeah. Flesh kitchen magic, delectable, bountiful, formidable. And I love I love how much information there is here. Like my God, you have done a lot of work.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:21

The alchemy of of the science and the magic. Like, I love that when you start talking about alchemy, it's like, oh yes. We forgot. We always think it's some just you know, crazy nonsense from the you know, medieval times or whatever, middle ages Renaissance. I guess it was Renaissance, but uh yeah, it was I'm like, and like but when you were like writing about that, I'm like, oh yeah. Uh yeah. And I so I was just like, this is so fun, this is totally out of my alley. Because those things to me are not separate from each other, really.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

Yeah. But just like kind of represent like two or three years, decades of of um information that you've been gathering and pulling together. Or and or did you have to just do all these deep dives to put into stuff to bring this book to life? Is it a combination of both? Is this do you have like a file cabinet of just everything? Can I look at it? I mean, I guess I am looking at it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

I've got your book, but yeah, um, it is mostly it it's stuff that I already knew so much about because I'm a huge geek for magic. Like I've just been studying magic all my life in one way or another. Like, even when I was very immersed in academia for quite a few years, I was very interested in things that I considered magical. I did a lot of sociology because I was trying to understand people, the weirdness of people and all of That kind of stuff. And um yeah, I think um so like all the astrology stuff. I've been studying astrology for a really long time. The structure of the book kind of came to me based on the structure of the Myrtlewood mysteries, because the names of the books, I was like, oh, they would make good chapter names. So they're the same. There's a bit of a mirror there. Um so then I kind of was just like, oh, so obviously this chapter's about astrology and this chapter's about food. And but yeah, a lot of it is like it's stuff that um like it was you know, when you kind of already got all of the information and it can just sort of like compost enough to be ready to kind of know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:45

Yes, I love that. That's like the best feeling when it finally gets the uh it's peak compost. Yeah, love it. And you're just like I'm ready. You have to noodle, you have to noodle over stuff sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:59

Yeah, I I think I discovered that when I was like writing a thesis, I was like, I I feel like I'm not being productive, but I realized it was because it was all there was a lot of unconscious stuff happening, and then when I was ready to write, I would write. So I've learned not to try to get myself to write because then I feel like I'm pushing against a brick wall, and instead I try to follow the path of least resistance and go, what do I need to compost to break down? What needs to percolate or like bubble in the cauldron so that I can then be in the place of being ready? Because I'm not gonna be ready by like hitting my head against a brick wall or being mean to myself or trying. You know, sometimes that trying is that constriction, and it's like trying to have control over things actually gets in the way of the flow. So my creative process is a lot about how do I just not do that and open up to flow as much as possible, and then everything kind of will it's like that book poured out of me. Like I I think I wrote most of it in the space of a a month or or two. Oh wow. Just like yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:10

I mean fiction, fiction I get, but doing non-fiction like that is like wow, that's amazing. So it was really ready to it was just ready to come right out. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:22

It took a long time in editing though, because I write a lot by dictations.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:26

Oh, me yeah, me too. That's always fun. What is like the most interesting or weird sort of research that you've done, either for your fiction or non-fiction? Anything you've written.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:43

Oh gosh, I don't know. Like what counts as unusual?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:47

Sometimes it seems perfectly normal the things we do as authors.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:50

I guess um one of the things that I did a really deep dive into um a couple of years ago was this thing called Existential Kink.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:01

Oh, I have that book. Yes, yes. Renee talks about that all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:07

So I got Renee into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:10

Oh yes, you're the one that got Renee. Uh yes, okay. I yeah, she um I also I also have that book somewhere. Yeah. And I started I started to read it, but I wasn't in the right headspace for it, so it's it's perfectly.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:26

Definitely do the audiobook. Even if you're not an audiobook person, she's got a great voice. And it's so engaging in audio. It's it's quite dense to read, but it's amazing at audio. Um, so I just the reason that I it's it's like I just did a really deep dive on that, and I ended up training to do existential kink coaching, and now I'm training to do IFS somatic therapy.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:52

All the things. Like, I mean, that's I love this. This is one of the things I love about being an author and a witch is all the weird, kooky, wonderful things that we just get to dive into just because we feel like it.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:06

Yeah. So I don't know if it's that weird, but I mean, existential kink is pretty weird because it's like right on the edge of like what is comfortable, what is acceptable, what is taboo, like you know, the the idea that there is a a shadowy part of you that is absolutely voracious for every experience you could possibly have, even when your conscious mind is going, I only want the good experiences. Yeah. And how do you expand almost like your experience of consensuality with life? With going, can I be open to this sensation that I wouldn't normally want to be open to? Because if I can experience it with openness, it's not going to be as horrendous.

unknown 1:10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:52

So that's quite an interesting psychological kind of stretching to do. And so Renee and I were in the same course with this because I got her into Existential King and we ended up in the same coven for the the training program.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Oh wow. All all the authors that we talk to seem to be connected, not just to us, but like in other ways.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:16

It's so cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:17

I think authors can get quite good at networking because we're so solitary, like and we we want to be able to talk to other people who understand why it would be possibly interesting to talk about like POV or like tenths or like you know, like this this stuff that nobody else even really knows what you're talking about or and looks at you like you're nuts.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:39

And who also respect the boundaries because they're like, I too am an introvert, and so I can talk to you for this long, and then we don't have to talk for another month or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

Yeah, that's right. Also, people you can talk to poison about without without them turning you in. So, what are your plans for the rest of this year? Um we're coming up on almost halfway through.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:03

I know, I feel like the year just started. How did this happen? Right.

unknown 1:12:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:10

So um at the moment I'm working on uh co-write with Loretta. Um Loretta Hignett. Yes, we're gonna the pod. Yeah. So that's gonna be a lot of the we're having a lot of fun with that. And it's good. I haven't done this kind of co-write before where you're like alternating chapters. Uh so it's it's cozy fantasy, and I don't know what we're gonna say about it yet, so I won't say anything more about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:45

Just look forward to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:46

Yeah, but I just came back. I was just in Australia like um a week ago, hanging out with her and her family, and m seeing all the giant birds. They have giant birds over there, huge, enormous birds. And um, I want to write another Myrtlewood Mysteries. I know like I have so many readers who were like, when's the next one coming out? And I do want to do that. I just I had to take a break because I was just doing so much, I had so much emotion that was coming up from my early childhood. I discovered things about myself that I had no idea that I didn't have a story for. So I'm gonna write about that too.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:25

Cool. I love that. I'm gonna write a book.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:27

Yeah, I'm gonna write a book about shadow work that's like part memoir, part self-help book, part mystery. Because it was a it was a mystery, like totally baffled me to discover some of these things. Um yeah, so that's another project that I want to do. I have I have so many things. I want to do another um cozy vampire book. That's the my my new vampire series that I I've only written one book on that I launched last year, has a bit of an existential kink kind of vibe of like shadow work and like because vampires in my world sort of feed on shadow, like they can get it from blood or they can get it from blood enchanted food. So that that's quite fun. I I also want to I have another non-fiction project that I want to work on with a friend of mine who's a a naturopath, and like kind of so she's got she's got a whole lot of other training, she's also done like somatic yoga and stuff like that. Kind of want to do something with her, which is it's all about kind of embodiment because I feel like there's something like so powerful about connecting really, really deeply with yourself and with your body, and we're so like kind of taught to disconnect from our bodies and to hate ourselves and to hate our bodies, and it's like the more we can kind of get beneath that and like really tune in, the better everything is, and the more you know, regulated, and the more like I feel like I'm a totally different person from the person I was a year ago just because I've done so much healing. But my readers have been really patient. Oh it's changed my life. Like, I had insomnia since I was a really young child, and I don't have insomnia anymore. I've had IBS since I was 18. I don't have that anymore. I don't get digestive pain. I don't have chronic fatigue. It's like I'm it's like I'm normal.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:30

I don't have all the words. My brain's still weird, but like my body. My brain's weird, but my body's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

My body would except one or the other. I actually would prefer my body to be fine. My brain can stay on that stuff. Yeah, I want my brain to be interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

Yes, my brain is fine. I mean, well, it gets a little foggy these days with perimenopause, but um, but yeah, my body my body really I would like it to be much finer than it is because it's not fine. It's not happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:59

Well, I am so happy for you, and I am happy for you. Can you tell us a little bit about the course? Yes, yes. Tell us about the course. Do you have more than one available?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:10

Or just yeah, um, so the so the shadow work course, sacred shadow work is a longer course, and it is very much about that sort of sacred descent into the underworld that um you know, based on the ancient Sumerian mythology, like Inana like goes down into the underworld and sheds everything. It's like you have to kind of grieve and let go and release a whole lot of things in order to go through that metamorphosis and that transformation. So it's really about that whole transformation journey of um yeah, like all of the stuff that that composts and breaks everything down and then emerging into like celebration and that kind of magic as well. So it's like there's an there's like a tarot guide in there, there's like um a ritual and spell guide, because I do feel like this sort of stuff is good to do this, to do what makes sense for you personally. So it's like here are all the tools that you can draw on for your own path, and this is like guiding you in the journey into your own healing, and then you can curate that in a way that makes sense for you. Absolutely and there's meditations in there. Uh, so it's really good for when lots of things are changing and things feel stuck, and you know that you need to kind of I don't know, dissolve into goo like a caterpillar and a cocoon and and then totally reform and and then emerge again. Um and I do have another short course called Um Self-Love Magic, similar to the the book. And that's like it's just a short course, but it's like a like a nutshell of here are things that are useful if you want to like bring a practice of self-love into your everyday life. And I want to do more courses because I just love sharing, yeah, like I love learning and I love sharing. I have a strong Gemini and and Virgo Mercury influence in my chart, and I just I'm always wanting to like find like my whole life I've been like, where is all the information that I can find and then like make it useful for people and then share it with them? Like when I was like 16 years old and I was on the internet for the first time, I was looking up all the information I could about crystals, and then I had this gem index that I was getting. Okay, so amethyst, this is what all these different websites say about amethyst. Let's put it into here.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:49

That's amazing. Oh my god, you made your little database. Oh Netscape Navigator.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:57

I love I love Netscape. Oh gosh. Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:04

All of this is available on your website, and I just hopped over there and looked at the like so um the self-love magic course. And I love that it says, like, right there, when you stop abandoning yourself, everything changes. And that's such a powerful way to look at the relationship you have with yourself. And I I just as a young Jenna mother, um, eldest daughter, white woman who grew up in Protestant, the Protestant church, being able to think about when that abandonment may have started and and looking back at that that history is how long have I abandoned myself? How long have I been on the back burner of everything else? Yeah. And how do you like how do you how do you stop abandoning yourself? Maybe I need to um read that book. Yeah, maybe I have the book. And then how do I make sure that this doesn't happen to my daughter? You know, like it's not just and Shay and I talked about generational trauma and generational joy, and I would like to pass on more joy than trauma. Yes, yes, jump my line. Um, I mean, obviously, generational trauma, I can end a lot of stuff with me, but the generational trauma still bleeds through because that's how it works with biology and epigenetics, shared history, but like just that that thought. When you stop abandoning yourself, everything changes.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:41

If we've been if we've been socialized to be female, if we've been raised, you know, as a as a girl, to be a good girl, like even being a good girl, that's kind of a a form of self-abandonment. It's like you're only you only get approval if you fit into these parameters. And you know, especially if you're an older daughter, you often end up looking after your siblings, looking after your mother, your parents, and that's how you get your needs met, that's how you get cared for, and that's you know, it's like you learn to self-abandon in order to get care, and that's such a tricky thing to unlearn because you you know you take that pattern everywhere you go into every relationship, and you go, maybe if I look after this person really well, then I'll get my needs met, and then I'll be okay, because you didn't have that attunement as as much as you needed yourself. So it's like such a thing to kind of go, okay, let's push everyone else away for a bit. Let's not be focused totally on meeting other people's needs, let's figure out how to meet our own needs and not abandon ourselves. So when the emotion comes up, and it's often these young parts of us that come up, that you know, it's like we're we're the rings of a of a tree. We've got all of these layers of our younger selves inside us. And wherever we're carrying that emotion from things that were hard in the past that haven't fully been processed, that's what kind of rises up. Like our nervous system gets triggered by something's happening. It reminds me of a time that wasn't safe or that wasn't okay, and that young emotion comes up, and that that imprint takes over, which is a survival thing, yeah, but then it's like you're a fully grown woman and you've got a a young part of you that's like taking over the driver's seat, and it's like, how do I because that it's it's interesting, it's like when those young parts take over, you've abandoned yourself as an adult, and it's like, how do I get back into being myself as an adult and hold that little baby and go, it's okay, like and that's what I'm actually creating a course about inner child healing at the moment. I'm calling it nurture alchemy, because that's been such a huge part of my journey, and it's got somatic exercises, like really gentle in the body, like you know, this helps to release grief, or this is good for like anger, like anger is super powerful, like all that kind of stuff. So I'm just like wanting to create something that you know, because it's one thing to go to therapy, which you might might go to once a week at the most, and you have a bit of a chat, but that doesn't necessarily create the kind of wraparound care that you need to really do the CP healing, and there's all sorts of things like um like even having like a stuffed toy, like a stuffy or like a I s I've slept with like um uh it's like a hedgehog, but it's like a hot water bottle. Well, like grief and old emotion is like frozen, like fear and stuff is frozen in your body, and so like actual warmth, like physical warmth can help to like like communicating with those younger layers of you and letting them know it's actually warm now, it's actually okay, it's safe. It's like um it's like in um The Wizard of Oz where you know it's okay, munchkins, you can come out now. It's safe now.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:29

Oh, I love that. I can't wait for that course. That sounds amazing. We'll definitely put all those links in the show notes and uh make sure to check out Iris' um website for her courses for her books, both fiction and non-fiction. Get you some witchy coziness.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:53

Uh do you use social media? Like, should we send people to your Instagram or do you have a Facebook thing?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:00

Yeah, I've got Instagram and Facebook. I try to put stuff on there sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:05

All the links to find you will be in our show notes and our YouTube description. Oh my goodness, this has been such a pleasure to talk to you. And I really appreciate you taking the time uh to meet with us and work through our crazy time zone schedules because I think for you, is it 11 a.m. for you right now? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:29

And I'm at four. That's why.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:34

It is just past midnight for me, so now it's Thursday for both of us. You're in the future. Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:41

It was really beautiful to come and talk to you both, and I had a great time.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:49

And we're back.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:51

Yay! Did you miss us? I missed us. Um, I just love talking to Iris. She is so knowledgeable, and just it's so fascinating talking to her. And definitely grab her books.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:06

It's fiction and such a great resource, uh resource. The uh the nonfiction book. The nonfiction I'm talking about. Yeah, such a great resource. And she did so much work. She's so much of an interviews. It's it's impressive. It's yeah, ridiculously impressive.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:22

And if you like taking courses, and and it's more helpful for you to have someone kind of walking you through the process of one of the courses, and the courses are really well done as well. And they're just they're really um, you know, she does little videos and you know, things like that, and she has you, you know, do little um rituals and spells and things and um to walk you through the process. I enjoy that sort of thing, and so um it's it's been really interesting. And then her fiction is is fun, it's super fun. And a lot of a lot of the magic she writes in, it's real stuff. Like she writes in a lot of that, and it's like great. Check oh, check it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:07

Look at the show notes. Yeah, you can find all her stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:10

So before we want to go, I want to tell y'all about a project that is we're gonna be supporting. Um, it's called Arcane Awakenings. You can find it on Kickstarter. It's a urban fantasy anthology. Uh I sat there for the first five seconds you were talking about. I'm going, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? What's hilarious here about her reaction is that Amy is part of this anthology. She has a story in the anthology.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:40

My partner also hilarious is that we talked about this before we started recording. We discussed saying this, but Shaya wrote it down and I didn't. Shea's partner and my partner also vote in this anthology.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:59

But I'm really excited because there's uh I I I can't recall. I think there's like 17 different authors or something in this anthology doing urban fantasy stories. It's gonna be up on Kickstarter.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:12

So the links in the show notes.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:13

The links in the show notes, you can go and follow. As of this recording, it's in pre-launch. So you can go and you can follow so you can be notified when it goes live. I can't wait to uh support this Kickstarter and um also uh maybe have some of the the uh people who are gonna be in the kit who are part of the anthology here on the pod to talk to them about the stories and the project.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:38

And the Arcade Awakenings is all about that first spark of magic that comes into a character's life. I love that. That's kind of where it is. I love that. Spoiler, y'all. It's a new series for me. So this will be the first glimpse of a new series that I'm keeping tight under wraps.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:02

Ooh, now that is exciting. And in the meantime, check out our show notes for the links to Iris' books, to the Arcane Awakenings Kickstarter link, and of course to our blog, our sorry, our Instagram links and our website.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:20

Excited that we'd started blogging.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:22

Yeah, blog. Wait, and of course, the recipes will be there as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:26

And of course, all the links to all of our social media, all of the stuff that we've talked about today will all be in the show notes at the end of the YouTube video, and at the end on our Instagram. You can vote about what to name my cocktail.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:42

Yes, keep watching so that you can vote. Be sure to smash that like button, be sure to share, comment, follow, subscribe. Thanks for joining us today. We loved having you, and we will see you next time. Bye.