Ep. 32 What is Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

We explore the signs of narcissistic personality disorder including how to recognize and protect yourself from narcissists in your relationships. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Be On It, episode 32. Hey Jessica, what's going on in the beehive today? Hi, Debbie. I was just thinking about what are some signs of a person that is a narcissist. I was doing my own research and just been thinking about this for a while because I've had a few narcissists in my uh my life. I wanted to understand the signs to look out for. I read this article from prevention.com. I think it was an article titled Nine Major Warning Signs You're Dealing with a Narcissist. And it states that men tend to have the disorder more commonly than women. Studies show about 7.7% of males in general population are narcissists. I read another another article from thegardian.com and it talks about female narcissism just looks different. I'll go into the comparisons and then we'll talk about the nine signs. I learned a lot about the narcissist in my life and how they manipulated, they were really good at it. I didn't even recognize it as narcissism.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

It's a personality disorder, right? That's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Personality disorder called PND. Personality narcissistic disorder. How often have we all thrown that term around? Oh, that person's just being narcissistic. But truly, to be a narcissist, you have to be diagnosed.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

So the fact that there are people walking around and in your lives who have this personality disorder but haven't seen it, haven't reached out to see a provider and are not diagnosed. They haven't been evaluated for it. I agree with you. There's like this term narcissistic or narcissism. It's something that is in casual conversation, but what we're talking about is the personality disorder of narcissism that these folks are like literally entrenched in these are the red flags and the signs on how to be aware of.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

So you don't get into relationships, friendships. It's a little different if you're a child. You can't get away from that. You got to set boundaries. But this is this is just a good guideline. It says it goes on to say that a narcissist, by definition, is someone with a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, a lack of empathy. This is uh coming from that article on prevention.com. Dr. Newman, he's a PhD um and a professor of psychology at the Pearlman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. And he says narcissist personality disorder emerges early in adulthood. He states that it is difficult to say what exactly causes someone to be a narcissist, but states both genetics and upbringing likely play a role. He says that if someone was super indulged, always told he or she was special or better than the other kids, never given limits, that that would likely contribute. So that's the nurture piece, right? That's the nurture piece. On the other end of things, which was more what resonated with how I saw narcissism, it talks about some researchers think that parental neglect can also contribute to narcissism.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah, it makes sense when you dig deeper. I I come to the realization, and we're gonna go into the traits and the qualities and the patterns of behavior, but I realize that these could be folks who were neglected, had low self-esteem and confidence growing up. Didn't have a they didn't have a way to voice their opinions, and so they're kind of doing the opposite of that. So we'll we'll get into the qualities. When you say that, they could have had parents that neglected them. That makes me think that their confidence level as they were growing up was pretty low. And they had a void that was not filled growing up, as because when you're growing up, that's when your personality develops. So I could see totally see that happening.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah, I'm with you there. And it's interesting because females present differently than males, and it's it talks about. So the the first sign is a narcissist has an exaggerated sense of self-importance, they want to be recognized as superior without all the necessary achievements that go along with that. With men, they're more they're more like grandiose. This other article I was reading was from theguardian.com. Female narcissism is often misdiagnosed because it's in the article was called How Science is Finding Women Can Have a Dark Streak, too. And it talks about the psychopathy as well as narcissism and how they kind of go hand in hand. And this article, um, Ava Green from St. George University of London talks about female narcissism often manifests through covert, vulnerable or communal traits rather than overt grandiosity that you would see in men. And it focuses on victimhood, manipulation, and intense envy. And the key traits include a fragile self-esteem, masked by entitlement, using children or reputations to manipulate, excessive vanity, and using emotional cruelty. And it says while up to 75% of NPD, which is the diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, are male, women often present with covert behaviors making diagnosis complex. And if you're ever interested in reading more about this article, it just goes on to say that it's so complex that um they're thinking in this article that women might even be a higher percentage than men just because they come off as more vulnerable and brittle and fragile and are conniving and more manipulative. And then it goes on to say the second sign, a narcissist believes they're special or unique. Dr. Newman goes on to say that they think they're more special than anybody else. That no one will uh no one will understand their specialness they you know unless they deem somebody just as special as them and that was relatable. So they can they can only be understood by other people they deem to be special.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

And then number three, a narcissist requires excessive admiration. They act boistful and overcompetent, but their self-esteem can actually be pretty fragile, which is what we were talking about. They have a tendency to be preconce uh preoccupied rather with how they are perceived by other people and feel shocked or disappointed when people don't lay on the flattery. And they, you know, he goes on to say that narcissists love you as long as you are idolizing them. You gotta feed the machine, gotta feed the machine. Number four, narcissists have a sense of entitlement, they believe the rules don't apply to them. Number five, a narcissist lacks empathy. They are notorious for being unable to be empathetic with the struggles or pain of others.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

That's that's the quality that I noticed with this personality disorder that was kind of distinct for me is the lack of empathy.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Lack of empathy. It's a it's a big one. It's manipulative, it's that manipulative behavior where they come off, not sincere, and you kind of pick up on it, but you're so emotional in that moment that you're needing to hug, but they don't hug or they'll say get over it, which is what my experience was. They never really understand or empathize with the pain that you're going through, and you never feel better after talking with them.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Well, because if they recognize others' pain and feelings, then theirs their their their sense of pain and their need to be recognized as you know the one and only isn't fulfilled.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

It says number six, a narcissist is envious of others and believe others are envious of them. Number seven, a narcissist behaves in an arrogant or haughty manner. Example, you go on a date with someone who orders the most expensive wine on the list, and they're just they're sweet and they're charming towards you, yet very condescending and rude to the server.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

That isn't a red red flag. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Number eight, a narcissist is preoccupied with fantasies of success and the perfect mate. So they oftentimes it talks about seek out somebody that's going to help inflate themselves and reflect, make them look better. So they'll get like what they call the trophy partner. Okay. Number nine, the last one: a narcissist takes advantage of others. For example, if you have a narcissistic boss, they may work you to the ground. And it can be true with friendships too, where you know, they're always too busy unless you have something to offer them.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Now you've listed the the nine qualities of a narcissistic personality disorder. I've always associated manipulation and lack of empathy with narcissism, NPD. I'll just call it NPD for short, but yeah, I've always associated manipulation and lack of empathy, which I think together that is a very dangerous comp that I didn't even recognize it as narcissism as in the family members that I, you know, had to experience narcissism with.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Um, I never labeled it narcissism. I mean, it definitely undiagnosed. There were some other factors and other disorders definitely undiagnosed in there as well. The more I read about it, I was like, whoa, this is really resonating because this is, you know, something that, you know, I was surrounded by growing up. And yeah, it was it was really um interesting to to see and make and help me to connect the dots and um understand a little bit more about what I had gone through. And they're so manipulative that you don't even realize you're being manipulated. They're so good at you know getting what they want that they will do love bomb you, they will do all the things to get what they want. And it's never about you. It's about now as an adult. Yeah, I just didn't realize that's what it was was narcissism. Or for instance, uh misplaced or performative generosity, often time uh times called narcissistic giving, ever those were the priority for their own inflation.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yeah. I feel like like these qualities and traits singularly can be exhibited by all kinds of people here and there intermittently. But if if they are taken to the extreme and you see many of these traits in one person and entrenched behaviors, I think you're gonna have to notice that the red flags are up. And if they check all of these boxes or of a majority of these boxes, your hackles need to be up.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Exactly. The article thegardian.com talks about usually you're gonna find a lot of these people, like the 1% in jail, because they lie, they cheat, they steal, they do all the things, they manipulate, they do all the things. And this was like the female perspective. So imagine the men too, like con artists, you know, they love bomb you, they get you entangled. What do you do when you're a child of a narcissist? It's it's scary, yeah, it's dangerous. You you have to walk on eggshells. So um, gotta set boundaries, you know, all those, all those things. It was just it was just really eye-opening for me and really helped me to connect the dots and understand a little bit more and how to protect myself a little bit more too.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Yeah. And I will also say, adding to that, is I can see so much generational trauma involved with NPD, whether it's nurturing this sort of personality disorder to develop and then passing it along as well. Like, as if you were a pet if you have NPD and you're a parent, well, what kind of behaviors are your children gonna see? And are you nurturing another generation of NPD along with trauma? So um I I just see that generational trauma is really prevalent with this personality disorder, which is really, really sad and dangerous. And we want to deal with reality, and whether they're supported or not, they're elevated from reality, is what it looks like to me.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I agree with you. You have to start limiting your time with them if you can. You have to set really hardcore boundaries. Totally. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

I when you deal with people with NPD, it's one thing if you met them uh through through friendships, different relationships, or at different events in your life, but it's another thing when you are actually related to folks like who exhibit these behaviors, and or if you're a child of an MPD, that's when it gets even more challenging. But I was gonna also go into what I found, and this is just what I found online through a Google search, but you spoke about boundaries. It is very important to set boundaries with those who exhibit traits of NPD, firm boundaries, and if those boundaries are crossed, then you need to enforce the consequences. If a firm, hard boundary is crossed and somebody crosses these boundaries that you've already established, then you're gonna have to distance yourself and and you know step away if that's the case, and if you can.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

I agree with you. That's that's been my experience. When I set boundaries and stick to them, it makes that person with PND mad. And they try to like they try to sneak around and find other ways to get in there and like cross that boundary. And you have to keep everybody protected, and so you do, you kind of have to remove yourself from them, especially when they're family, and that's that's what I had to do to protect my family. It's yeah, it's it's complicated, it's complex, it's not always obvious.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

So they're that's how they manipulate because that's how they manipulate, and women are just really, really good at it.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah, they play to their strengths. You might not even realize somebody is a narcissist at first glance. Correct. So you could be taken by them, and then and then you'll find yourself realizing, okay, this person is all for themselves, and and then they exhibit all of these other traits too. Beware, people. Um, secondly, I was gonna say remain neutral, like don't get emotional about things because when they find that you are reactive and emotional, well, then that means you've taken the bait. You're you could be hook line sinker, and you don't want to be that. You don't want to put yourself in that position.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

You're giving them power.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

They exactly they thrive off of that and they know that they got you.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah. I mean, think about all the serial killers out there. Look at Ted Bundy and how charming he would play to vulnerability and like somebody being empathetic and helping. So think about that. When when you think about somebody that has some of those tendencies, they come off as charming and really get to like just really look at the red flags of other things that they do and you know, other things in their life, you know. Do they ever take personal responsibility? Or is it everybody else's fault? That's a big one too that I noticed with the the narcissistic people in my life growing up. No accountability, no accountability, it's everybody else's fault. Everybody else's fault.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

If you did, if you didn't do X, Y, and Z, I wouldn't have had to do this.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Oh, got you. A lot of yeah, yeah, I've been around people like that. Um, thirdly, a couple other things is if you're in an argument, so if you get to a point where you are in an argument, you want to make sure that you have support for your argument. So if you have a relationship with somebody and you um have to suffer pitfalls, please write it down. Um, keep keep a record of things because our memories can be off, but if you have a written record, that's gonna help support your argument. This date, at this time, this is what happened. Um, you can you can be your own historian in that way. Another thing, too, is a lot of I statements. Uh like I feel this way, they can't refute that. If you feel a certain way because of XYZ, then they can there's no argument there. That's the way you feel. And then also you want to make sure that you limit the information that you share with these folks because they can again use the manipulation to to get at your sensitive and your sensitive your sensitivities and your triggers.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Exactly. And I think it's a little bit easier if it's a friendship or somebody that's not related. It's a little bit more challenging if you're married or divorced or whatever it may be. You have to see them on a regular basis. Just protect yourself and set those tight boundaries and just remain neutral, like you were saying. I think those are all the helpful hints and just be aware. Be aware when getting to know people, looking for those red flags, looking for some of those traits. We're not perfect, right? You know, we do we're a product of our, you know, imperfections here and you know, family traits and genetics that are you know play a big part. Yeah. You know, making sure you're accountable and having empathy, that right there, you're not a narcissist.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah, but like if you do see that, if you do see something, that bears watching.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Oh, I agree. Especially if you're in a friendship and they've like, or like a relationship and they've just loved bomb you and they've done all these things and they've just reeled you in and now you're in it. Start to pay attention.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Just take your time to get to know people.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Because when after we've talked about all these things, these things, especially the traits, I understand I I can see it's it's like a machine and it needs to be fed. Right. So don't feed the machine. You might have to step away and give in and give distance until you kind of fully understand the situation.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah. This was a really good episode. I enjoy I uh learned a lot from it. Hopefully, you guys learn a lot too. If you enjoy what we're all about, please join us next time. See you next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Just so you know, this is for entertainment purposes only. We are speaking from our lived experiences and are not licensed therapists. We are all about community. Join our community by following and subscribing to be on it through YouTube, Instagram, and of course your podcasting platform so we can continue to bring Be On It to you.