216. Mother's Day Without Your Mom: An Conversation About Grief, Healing & Moving Through It

Mother's Day can be one of the most painful days of the year when you're missing your mom. And if you're dreading it, this episode is for you.

In this special panel episode of the Life With Grief Podcast, I'm joined by three incredible women—Liz Quinn, Sara Rian, and Chelsea Ohlemiller—for an honest, heartfelt conversation about what it's really like to grieve your mother, navigate Mother's Day without her, and find your way forward without losing the love you carry for her.

Each of us shares our own story of loss:
💔 Tara's mom, Lori, passed away from esophageal cancer in 2019
💔 Sara's mom, Susan, died by suicide in 2018
💔 Chelsea's mom, Rita, passed away in 2017
💔 Liz's mom, Colleen, died in 2020 following an Alzheimer's diagnosis

Four different losses, four different journeys, one shared truth: grief doesn't follow a timeline, and you don't have to face Mother's Day alone.

In this episode, we cover:
✨ The early days of grief: silence, trauma, confusion, and those overwhelming "never again" thoughts
✨ How grief shifts over time: identity changes, finding community, writing as healing, and reaching new life milestones without her
✨ Experiencing motherhood without your own mom by your side
✨ The duality of joy and grief, holding happiness and heartache at the same time
✨ Practical ways to approach Mother's Day that actually help
✨ Why grief is deeply personal, and why every loss, every relationship, and every timeline is valid

Whether you lost your mom recently or years ago, whether this is your first Mother's Day without her or your tenth, this conversation will remind you that what you're feeling makes complete sense, and that you are not alone in it.

🎙️ Listen now and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it this Mother's Day.

Connect with each of us through our websites:

• https://lossesbecomegains.com/
• https://lizquinnheals.com/
• https://www.sararianbooks.com/
• https://hopeandharshrealities.com/

Click here to get your copy of Love Like Thunder, Grief Like Rain: https://earthgrief.love/

Transcript

Mothers Day Panel Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back to the Life with Grief podcast, you guys. I am so excited to share this very, very special episode with you in honor of Mother's Day, which is coming up here very quickly in the US. In this panel, I sat down with Liz Quinn, Sarah Rean, and Chelsea Olamiller for a really beautiful and powerful conversation about navigating life without our mothers and navigating Mother's Day without our mothers as well. Liz was kind enough to bring us all together for a really powerful conversation that is going to be featured both on her podcast, so you'll hear her intro here in just a little bit, but we also wanted to share it here on Life with Grief. I left this conversation feeling so seen and so validated and just so loved on and uplifted, especially going into what can sometimes be a very difficult holiday. So if you've also lost your mom, I really hope you tune into this one because we all have such different stories but can really come together over this particular type of grief. What I loved most about this conversation is how we all came together to really just relish in our moms and missing them and what navigating life after that loss looks like for each of us. I hope you enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Welcome to the Life with Grief podcast. I'm your host, grief and soul purpose coach, and fellow griever Tara Accardo.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

Today we're talking about the loss of your mom. With Mother's Day coming up, that can bring up a whole lot of emotions. I'm joined by Tara, Sarah, and Chelsea. Each of them have experienced the loss of their mom. And together we're going to share about our moms and about what life looks like after losing them. Losing a mom changes you in ways that it's hard to put into words. It literally changes and touches everything. I'm honored to bring you this conversation with these lovely ladies today. Can we take a minute to share a little bit about yourselves and your mom? Tara, we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Sure, thank you. Well, I'm wearing my mom's favorite color today, like nice little bright, bright yellow, bringing

Meet The Panelists

SPEAKER_02 2:05

her her energy in. Yeah, so I'm Tara. I am a grief and soul purpose coach and I host the Life with Grief podcast. And I lost

Tara Shares Lori's Story

SPEAKER_02 2:13

my mom about six years ago now to esophageal cancer. And I know Liz, you and I have that in common, losing a parent that way. And it's it's horrific. I I lost both of my parents to cancer for those who don't know. And it's it's I always say this, it's like a fate I never could have imagined for her. She died, I think she's like 62 or 63. So by today's standards, I feel that's that's young. And she was overall very healthy. She really took care of herself. She uh was active, she had family members that lived well into their 90s. Like there was no way this woman was not going to be around for like a lot of my life. And so she was diagnosed and died within like seven or eight months. It was like May, June of 2019. She was diagnosed. She died in December of that year. And yeah, I mean, as you guys know, it was it's completely life-changing. I was very blessed to have a beautiful relationship with my mother. I know that's not the case for everybody. Yeah, I mean, it was it was absolutely devastating. And then my dad died six months later. And so, but that ultimately led me into the work that I do now, which I'm very grateful for. But I'm sure we'll talk about this today. There was a lot of work and a lot of processing and a lot of grief that has come along in that journey as well. And I'm also navigating motherhood now, which has brought about a whole nother level of which we will mention. Yeah. Yeah, we will get into that, I'm sure. And I know uh others here can and can empathize with that. And so yeah, it it has been a journey. But and I always need to remember to say my mom's name. Her name is Lori. Yeah, so bringing bringing all of your moms into the conversation today.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

Well, thank you, Tara, and thank you for sharing pieces of your mom, Lori, with us today. So, Sarah, how about you? Tell us a little bit about yourself and your mom.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Yes, my mom's name's Susan. I'll start because I'll also forget because I just to me she's mom. So I am a licensed therapist. I specialize in sex therapy, but I do general therapy. I'm in Michigan, born

Sarah Shares Susan's Story

SPEAKER_03 4:24

and raised in Metro Detroit. And on the side, this wonderful, beautiful, passionate hobby of mine where I write, I call it poetry. Some people want to argue whatever it's called. I don't know, grief quotes, writing, grief poetry. I do that as a hobby and it sprouted into this wonderful community, and it doesn't quite feel like a hobby anymore. It kind of feels like another career in a way. And so I that journey began when I lost my mom in July of 2018 to suicide. My mom and I also had a very beautiful, beautiful relationship, one that I was hoping would continue on in the physical realm much longer. So after that is when I started writing, and you know, that's what brought me here today.

SPEAKER_04 5:07

Thank you for sharing, Sarah. And I look forward to getting to know Susan better today. So, and Chelsea, what about you?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

First, I just want to say I'm so excited to be with all of you today. Like, you know, we all share this heartbreak, but to sit on a panel and have this conversation with all of you guys is such a blessing. So as Liz said, I'm Charleston

Chelsea Shares Rita's Story

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Ulla Miller. I am the author of Now That She's Gone, A Daughter's Reflections on Lost Love and a Mother's Legacy. I am the face behind happiness, hope, and harsh realities. So I guess you can call me a grief author. My mother is Rita. She was just like all of you guys have shared, just the most powerful and influential person in my life who I did not anticipate losing. She was 57. She passed away in 2017. And, you know, it just really changed my life. And where she passed, I would write, and I never did anything with it. And so she always used to tell me, Charles, you should write and do something with it. And I was a teacher and I was like, I'm happy with what I'm doing. Why would I do that? And then after she passed, I realized, you know, I wasn't getting any new advice from my mom, so I better start listening to the advice she gave me. And so that has led to what brings me with all of you guys today. You know, I think that there's not always purpose in our loss, but I have found new ways to keep my mom alive through writing.

unknown 6:37

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

Thank you for being here and sharing Rita with us. I am Liz, your host, and I have also lost my mom, Colleen, in 2020. She passed away due to deteriorating Alzheimer's. Um, as she had done

Liz Shares Colleen's Story

SPEAKER_04 6:54

been diagnosed with dementia and Alzheimer's five years about four to five years prior to that, and then lived in the nursing home. And so uh we knew it was coming, even though it was still a shock. You know, I grieved my mom before she actually passed, but then when she left this physical world, there's just something that changes you completely, as all of you can relate. And this is probably one of my favorite panels to do because each and every one of you in some way helped me along my grief journey after losing my mom. So, like I was talking with Sarah last night, I get to sit in a room with some of my favorite griefy people and talk about my favorite person. So it's pretty cool. So thank you for being here and sharing your favorite person with me. So I want to talk a little bit about like what did the loss of losing your mom look like for you? You know. You can talk about like what it was

Initial Shock After Loss

SPEAKER_04 7:56

in the beginning, what was it after, just kind of like what did that initial like really shock, you know? I mean, even if it was, I know for you guys it wasn't quite as expected as kind of for myself, where I was more expecting her to pass eventually, where you guys, you know, it was not, you know, your moms were a lot younger than mine. Mine was 72. Still young, absolutely, not taking that away. But with being, you know, when you get the diagnosis of Alzheimer's, unfortunately there is no cure. So you really don't know how long she has. You know, obviously I wish we would have had longer, but I'm grateful we had the five years. You know, so tell me, you know, what was it like in that initial shock of loss? Tara, we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah, the thing that comes to mind just initially is uh the silence of her absence was deafening. Like it still is, but you know,

Tara On Deafening Absence

SPEAKER_02 8:57

after so many years now, it's like okay, I guess I'm kind of used to it. But when you j when you just asked, like, which is a beautiful question, and thank you for asking that. And that's that's really I think what comes to mind. And I remember like going to a medium probably like within a week or week and a half of her dying, because I just I could not process or be okay with not talking to my mom again. It it was a tough reading because I think there was also a part where my you know, my mom, even though we kind of saw the writing on the wall a little bit, we weren't ready for her to go, obviously. She the message I kind of got, and I just knew this about her, she wasn't ready to go. So it there was just that extra layer of ache there and just feeling so robbed and the anger didn't come initially, I think it came later, but it almost I remember talking to my dad, and we were like, what could have been done to prevent this? Could she have gone to the doctor sooner? Like she was really into like holistic medicine and things like that. And so just you know, you we're we try and rationalize any way we can. We try and make sense of it, we try and blame something, the cancer, what might have happened along in her life to cause the cancer that took her from it, you know, like it's you're you're grasping. It just it's grasping. And I don't remember exactly when that eased up. I guess it just eventually did. For me, it was probably around the time my dad died, which was just several months later, that I was like, okay, there might not be a a why to this. And that's a that's a bigger conversation. This we could get very existential very quickly here. But yeah, it was just I think the just the the quote unquote getting used to her not being a presence here in the physical body part of my life was excruciating. And it it's it's hard to put into words how you even process getting used to that. And I didn't find journaling and writing, which I love that we all have in common, is the writing in various degrees, um, until much later. That eventually helped me process things, but I also kind of felt like I couldn't grieve my mom right away because my dad's health started declining not long after, so that really complicated things. So it really true, if I'm being really honest, it wasn't until after my dad died, I think, that I could finally like it all really came kind of crashing down a little bit, and my nervous system could finally relax a little to really understand what happened and what happened in the months that she was declining. And I've talked to a couple of you about this already. Like, she had to get a tracheotomy midway roughly through her treatment, and I never heard her speak again. Like, there's so many layers of grief. And Liz, I know you can empty, you know, with watching your mom's decline, like, like you said, you're you're grieving them even before they're gone. But you know, long story short, nothing can prepare you, obviously, for when they really leave the physical world. And yeah, so I'll just come back to what I said that that absence is so so loud. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

I absolutely you very well said. Sarah, what would you add?

SPEAKER_03 12:27

I was extremely traumatized when my when my mom died. I was it was grief, but I looking back, and obviously with a clinical background, I like definitely

Sarah On Trauma And Suicide

SPEAKER_03 12:39

was experiencing traumatic, you know, a traumatic response and experiencing trauma symptoms. I was the last person to speak to my mom. You know, she had lived with suicidality my entire life. So we part of our just like kind of coping and the way we survived it was we just kind of like viewed her as this immortal person and like suicide was never gonna actually like take like it was like a thing. Like she would have some attempts and we'd get through it and we'd say, Mom, you know, okay. And so when she died, it flipped my whole world upside down. I couldn't work as a therapist anymore, I ended up losing my, you know, leaving my job, I didn't want to eat, I couldn't sleep, I you know, had a lot of blame because I was the last person to talk to her and didn't get to her in time. So I was just, I would say it was very traumatic. And I think as those trauma symptoms subsided, I think I still carry so much of it, but I think as those trauma symptoms subsided and it moved more into like grief a little more, just like I would say normal grief. But those, yeah, those early days it was it was extremely traumatic. It was just a I was very traumatized. I think we were all very traumatized, but the how it all happened was just really hard. That was really hard.

unknown 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

I think it's a great thing to acknowledge that losing someone can, you know, yes, it's traumatic because losing someone is, but a way you lose someone can also be just as traumatic. And so I think it's really important to acknowledge that. So thank you. Chelsea, what about you?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

I mean, a lot of this a lot of similar feelings and emotion. I think that for me, it was just chaos and confusion. Like, you know, I couldn't accept it

Chelsea On Never Again

SPEAKER_00 14:30

or even move forward or even understand that I was grieving because at the very beginning I just kept thinking, how can this be? And also, you know, being the leader of our family, you know, the matriarch of our entire family, her, you know, my mother having lost both of her parents. So she was everything to everyone. And so I just couldn't even process what what our lives were going to look like, not only for me, but for my sister. And just as our I knew that it was not only gonna change my life, but it was gonna change our family. And so that just sent me into total confusion. And then the thing at the beginning that kept happening for me is just every day I would wake up. It it pulls me back into those moments because I would just keep thinking, never again. I'm never gonna talk to my mom again. I'm never gonna see my mom again. I'm never gonna spend time with my mom again. And every day at the beginning, I would just wake up and it would just be never again, never again. And for the longest time I didn't think I would ever get out of that. I thought I was gonna be stuck in, oh, every day I wake up and I realize never again. And luckily, as you guys know, grief doesn't stay that way, but I didn't see that ending for a very long time.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

Yeah, yeah, and that's so relatable, Chelsea. That idea of like never again. And it's still, I mean, it still hits you. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but it still hits me today where I want to pick up the phone and call her. I mean, she's still in my phone, like she's still in my favorites on my phone, and she probably will never be taken off. So yeah. And so that Chelsea, you bring up a really great point of moving to the next question of talking about like how does life look different now? Now that we're years out past our loss, you know, and we're

Life Years Later Changes

SPEAKER_04 16:20

not in that shock, in that traumatized state, you know. Sarah, I would love to hear from you. Where are you now, besides writing and making beautiful poetry, whatever you want to call it, you know, where are where are you personally? Not in that, you know, griefy space that we, you know, love.

unknown 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

I mean, now I'm a I'm a mom and a wife, and all these identities I did not have before she died. You know, this all happened after. And I

Sarah New Identity Milestones

SPEAKER_03 16:53

think that, like we said, the trauma part has relaxed a little bit. And now I'm kind of walking alongside grief. I don't find grief as the enemy. I connect with grievers and I've created, you know, connected in a community, and it's it still feels like that's a whole different person. Like I looked, even like when my mom, I looked different. I had bright red hair, and I my whole face was covered in piercings, and I looked really cool and alternative. It was like truly she died, and my whole like I changed. I just like went clean girl aesthetic, not really, but you know what I mean? It just like even if you look at how I looked when she died, it was like completely different, and now people see me eight almost eight years later, and I'm a mom of two daughters, and I married a boy I dated in middle school, and it's just it's it truly is like two different people in two different lives, and the life I have now is so beautiful, and that's why it's just such a weird contrast because she was so beautiful, and my life with her was so beautiful, and it is completely different what it is now. She did not know, she does not know my husband, she'd never met my girls, she didn't know me in any realm. She didn't know me having a therapy price, like a private practice, she just knew I was wanting one, right? So everything I am now is just so weird because she never saw it. But yeah, that time a lot has been built into that, and a lot of a lot of you know, walking alongside grief versus the you know, head-to-head, I was really angry about grief for a very long time. And you know, that's changed. It's definitely changed over the eight years.

unknown 18:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

And I think a lot of us that have lost our parents, whether you had children after or got married after all those things, we all experience milestones we wish our parents were there for. And it can be, you know, like you said, you're a whole different person because of those new milestones you've experienced without your mom. So Chelsea, what about you?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah, I think I I can relate to a lot of that, you know, there are so many titles and components of my life now that my mom never had the chance to know. And so that's something that,

Chelsea Pain And Perspective

SPEAKER_00 19:05

you know, is interesting moving forward, going, she never knew this version of me. And I would like to think it's the best version of me because you know, it has still her influence, and though she hasn't been here. But I think for me, it's just finally, like Sarah said, being able to accept grief and knowing like it's gonna be a part of me. I always tell people it's kind of like an extra layer of skin, you know, it just kind of encompasses you everywhere and you can't get rid of it. So what the beautiful thing is, I think the pain stays, even though so many people will tell you, oh, the pain gets easier. And for me, that never is true. The pain is still there, it's just different. But what is also exponentially different is my perspective. So now that I'm separated from the very first days of losing her, my perspective of life and love and legacy and what all of that looks like has changed so dramatically that that's what allows me to continue on and find beauty and hope and purpose, you know, even though she's not here.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think you hit it, you know, your perspective is going to change as you move through your loss and your grief. Thank you for sharing. Tara, what about you? How has your life changed since losing your mom? You guys said it beautifully. I like ditto, ditto.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

I don't know. Yeah, it that's so beautifully said. It really is, you know, I there's there's definitely, I think a lot of us can empathize, right? It's like that the before the before they died, the after they died, the pre-loss, the post-loss, and it's a lot of the work I do, and a lot of fellow grievers

Tara Redefining Joy Purpose

SPEAKER_02 20:52

I see it. It really is that feeling of like, who am I? What do I even want now? What am I doing here? What's the point of all this? What's my purpose? Like, right? We go through that kind of a little bit of an existential crisis, but it can really be such a beautiful, very albeit painful at times for sure, but process and but Chelsea, what you said is like it it magnifies everything. It magnifies what gratitude really actually means, and joy and and pain and darkness, and it's it's scary because the losses like that will unlock kind of scary dark versions of ourselves. Like I see it in clients all the time, and they're like, I'm a glass half-full person, I'm I'm a happy person, which I identify with as well. But it's it can scare us sometimes, right? Because we don't, we've never known depth and darkness like this, you know, that the world could be so cruel, but it's like, you know, it's kind of cliche, but it's like, you know, to see that version of darkness, it like it really does amplify the light when it does come in. So I think for me, one thing I've had to learn a lot. Was, you know, it's not replacing the happiness and joy that I felt in that like other version of Tara. It's like, okay, what does that look like now? How do I redefine that now? And yeah, it's always I always I hear people say this a lot, you know, it's like, oh, I can never kind of reach like the level of happiness that I was able to when they were here. It's like there's always like one or two percent missing. And I feel that. I I I do. Like I'm not gonna say that's the case all day, every day, and like all the time, but it is bittersweet. I know you guys can probably empathize with this if you have in-laws that are alive and well, right? Like you're seeing that relationship that maybe your mother-in-law has with your child, and it's like that's just constantly in your face. Like, cool, wish I had that, you know, and it's so there's a little bit of that for me, a little bit of that underlying pain, I guess, if you kind of always. And yeah, I mean, when it's shoved in your face enough, I guess you kind of get used to it and you you do become grateful that they I hate to say at least, I'm just gonna say it, that they at least have, you know, her if they can't have your mom. I'm very grateful for my mother-in-law, but that doesn't take away any grief I feel for my daughter not being able to know my mom. So it's it's those things that I, you know, and how do you know how that's gonna feel when you lose your mom? I I relate to you, Sarah. I I was not engaged when my parents died. I wasn't married, you know. So as you said, Liz, like all those milestones, and that's tough enough to navigate. And then there's the quiet, just day-to-day moments when you wish you could pick up the phone to call her and get advice and get all the things. And I wish I could have done that before my daughter came, but it's it's been amplified now. So it's complex for sure. Yeah, it's redefining a lot of things, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

And you roll right into, I think, which is something to talk about is motherhood within losing a mom and how hard that is to

Motherhood Without Mom

SPEAKER_04 24:07

do and navigate and just be a part of. And you said it a lot of it, Tara's, you know, like you're grateful for your mother-in-law, but what you wouldn't give for your daughter to have the love of your mom because I don't know about you, but like I think about like how much I know that like I'm grateful that I'm able to give my kids my mom's love because it comes through me, but I would love so much more for them to get grandma's love because it's different, because I'm giving them the mom love. You know, it's a different type of love, you know. And for myself, like my lost my parents after my I already had kids, you know, and my mom my brother and sister are seven and ten years older than me. So I watched my parents be grandparents. I watched them in those roles, and I was like, they're the best grandparents ever. I couldn't wait for them to be grandparents of my kids. And although they got m my two oldest for a little while, not enough. You know, my my uh kids don't obviously don't remember my mom because she was sick, and my dad, they were just so little, and so like it's so hard. And so all of it's so hard. So, how has motherhood impacted your grief? And I know that's a loaded question because like I I am saying it and I'm like, I'm not sure how I would answer that, but I'm throwing it out there to you guys. So good luck.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

I can make this I can make this quick. The one thing that stands out to me that I've really been uh a very aware of, not just lately, just since my daughter was born, so in the last two years, is is time and slowing

Tara Time Patience Parenting

SPEAKER_02 25:57

it down. And you, you know, grief brings that up regardless of, you know, again, like our career. What do we want to do in our career? Like if if today were our last day, would I be happy with what I did that day? You know, I think that that's a question a lot of us ask ourselves and like and it makes us reevaluate kind of everything in our life. But I'll just speak for myself. Like as a mom, I'm like, what kind of mom do I want to be? And um, like it just having patience for my daughter, have it, you know, which is very hard because they test us a lot sometimes. Um and just those moments when I I wish I could call my mom and be like, oh my God, she's like ruining my life. What do I do? What did you do? Like somebody, SOS, like somebody help me, please. And you know, sure, there's other moms and there's other amazing people in our life, but nothing makes up for your mom not being it's like it's just I hate to almost say it this way, but it's it's not enough. It's not good enough, you know, because it's not her. And so there is that void, but so that's that's hard. That's hard to grapple with, but definitely grief has brought to light the importance of time, how I spend my time, how just slowing it down because these kids grow up so fast. Um and all of it. So it's it's for me, it's kind of like that two-part thing. It's it's like the time and really savoring it and and not missing things because life goes so fast. But then also the grappling with okay, how do I navigate one of the most important roles, I guess you could say, that I will ever have as a mom without the one that did that for me. And there's so many things I wish I could say to her, apologize for how I was to her as a teenager at times, like you know, and I I would love to think that they're around and I could just like talk to her and be like, mom, so sorry. And I like to think she's hearing that, but but it is tough not having that presence readily available in your day-to-day.

unknown 27:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:00

One, if you ever figure out how time slows down, tell me. I want the secret.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

I will give you the hack.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

My daughter is going to be driving soon, and that does not. I feel like I blinked and she was not careful. Um, and then two, I

Liz On Motherhood Duality

SPEAKER_04 28:12

think for myself, and I can't speak for you, and you can maybe you guys can say, but I feel like motherhood has been the true duality of life. Now that we've lost our moms, I feel like it is that true duality that like we are always going to ache and miss our moms, but we are also so grateful to be able to raise these beautiful little human beings and share what they taught us to them. It's so it's like it's I think for myself, it's probably the biggest duality of life that I experience as my kids are older. You know, I have an 8, 12, and 15, almost 16-year-old. It's crazy. So I would love to get your insights as well, Sarah.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Yes, I mean, what everyone's saying, I mean, it is just you just like know when you hear like I became a mom or I was a mom when my mom died, and you're just like, you know, you just I like feel like I could just my head could fall off from

Sarah Deeper Layer As Mom

SPEAKER_03 29:07

nodding so hard because you're just like you get it. And that's not to say folks who have lost their moms and they, you know, are child-free or or not moms yet, or you know, whatever. It doesn't mean that like the pain isn't there, it just adds this really, really deep layer to it. I mean, it makes me appreciate my mom more than I could have, which feels impossible because I was like obsessed with her, like probably like very anxiously attached to my mom. And I will openly admit it, very much obsessed with my mom, and always had been. This made me appreciate her, you know. I have a four and a three-year-old, so I had, you know, became a mom and then became a mom again, right? Within the next year apart. And I was just like, oh my gosh, and my mom also, she had four, but my brother and I were one year apart as well. So I wanted to be like, oh my gosh, you did this, and you had two other kids, and oh my gosh, will I survive? And it just made me love her even more, which I didn't think was possible. And I just wanted to be like, oh, this is what you talked about, this is how you loved us, this is what you went through, this is what you mean by stress, and apart with you know, losing a parent to suicide and losing a mom to suicide, which there's a lot of judgment around, but I wanted to just, I just thought, like, how bad could you have been hurting to have left us? Right? To left, and I say that I'm, you know, quotation marks, like, how bad did it hurt? Because it feels like nothing in the world could bring get me away from my babies, and to know like someone was hurting that bad

Motherhood Deepens Grief

SPEAKER_03 30:33

and thought like they were better off. So like it breaks my heart in ways that I never knew like my heart could break more until I became a mom and thought, oh my god, and she loved us, right? Like we were her everything. Mom was the only thing that kept being a mom was the only thing that kept her alive. So it's all of it. It's just like it makes me love her more, which makes me grieve her more, which I didn't even think was possible. It makes me want to be a great mom like her and to think one day I won't be here and my kids will be talking about me. And I wonder, right, like, will they remember me like that? Right? What what will their childhood be? It just it brings up so much. It was like you entered a level of the game that you know, not everyone opens that door, but when I did, I was like, oh, therapist of mine, we're gonna be doing more work because we're pregnant, right? Like so, yeah, it was just like it was like a bonus level of grief that I, you know, kind of chose I opted into that I was like, oh my gosh, there's so much here that I, you know, if I didn't have kids, I don't think I would have really like gone into, to be honest. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

And I know Chelsea, you're similar to me, where your kids were a little older when your mom passed, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Well, my so my two oldest were alive or alive. Oh my god, when my mother was alive, my two oldest were born. My goodness. One was four and one was two. So they were little. Um, my third child didn't get the opportunity to meet her, so they did have a little bit, and that's both such a blessing and also such a heartbreak because then it was my grief and their grief, um, which is we could do a whole episode just on that. The motherhood element for me was it allowed me to have a much deeper appreciation for my mom after she passed, which

Parenting Without Mom

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I appreciated her then, but it now that I've had all these years with my kids and they've gotten older, I just appreciate her with a new depth that I didn't have before. I think that also comes with age. But then also I feel like being a mom without your mom, also, like Sarah said, it just opens up and allows you to grieve deeper than you have before. Because with every new milestone that your kids reach, it's also a new milestone that you're entering for the first time without your mother's guidance, and also they're entering the first time without their grandmother's influence. And it just breaks your heart every time, you know. Today is my daughter's 15th birthday, and that has been hard. Like, you know, I I keep telling myself I only have a few years before she's off to college, and I want to just call my mom and tell her thank you for everything you did for me. Because it's hard having a teenager and you know, doing all the parties and all the things. And so yeah, it's just I think the one of the hardest aspects of losing my mom, if not the hardest, is that I can't learn parenting with her. I have to just only learn it from the way she parented me. Um, and that's a really hard truth to sit with.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

Yeah, oh it's a really hard truth to swallow, especially, I mean, I think at any stage, but I don't know about you, but especially for myself, because these teenage years are hard. You know, and they're I feel like they're even I don't want to say harder because they're all like our generation is hard too, but like with social media and all of the things, it's just it's an added layer that I wish, like you said, I wish I could just pick up my mom and be like, thank god I didn't have social media. Yeah, you know, and she'd be like, Yeah, you wouldn't be allowed to have it anyway. You know, like like yeah, like just that. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely agree with uh pretty much everything you guys all said. Like motherhood is just it's an added layer to grief. And and it is, it's it's both. It's you know, it's that duality. It's both really great because like we have that a better appreciation, we can be more grateful for the childhood we did have with our mom, but it also is so painful because we have to do it without them. So speaking of mothers and motherhood, what are your thoughts? How do you guys navigate Mother's Day? You know, this uh panel air right around Mother's Day,

Navigating Mothers Day

SPEAKER_04 34:58

as you know, and so I'm just kind of wondering like, do you guys celebrate, do you not celebrate? Because there's no right or wrong way to do it. You know, Mother's Day is it's one of the my husband calls it one of those made-up holidays. You know, someone made it up to you know to celebrate people. So, you know, he same thing with Valentine's Day. He doesn't val we don't celebrate that either because it's a made-up holiday. So, but do you celebrate Mother's Day? And if you do, how do you celebrate? Because in that form, it's you don't have a mom to celebrate, but you're still a mom, you know. So Tara, we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Yeah, since becoming a mom, so this will be my second, third Mother's Day, I don't know. But I I I'm very blessed and that I've felt very loved on, like husbands does

Tara on Mixed Feelings

SPEAKER_02 35:45

very nice things. I'm with my in-laws, like we all kind of celebrate together, and it it's really become more of a holiday of like frankly celebrating me as a mom. And it's it's a little complex because obviously I'm thinking of my own mom. I'm like, what would we be doing if she were here? Like that sort of thing. But I'll be so honest, Liz. I'm kind of with your husband. I've got like ever since my mom died, especially, I'm like, I could care less about this stupid holiday. Who came up with this? And I also, we were actually chatting with a group yesterday, and I think a lot of a lot of women sometimes feel like I I just want a break also on Mother's Day. I dunno it's yet another day where I'm still having to mom and plan things and pack things, and like this year we're going to a San Francisco Giants game. That was not my choice. That would not have been my choice. It was like something that we were just doing as a group. I'm like, okay, I guess what that's what we're doing on the day that's supposed to celebrate me. Fine. Um, it's fine. It'll be fun. And we've done things the last few years that have been a beautiful distraction. And so it's fine. But I've honestly come to just a more of like a quick holiday just thing because I feel this was Father's Day. I also kind of feel this with Valentine's Day a little bit because me and my husband both are like, any day is a great day to celebrate our love. So why not? I I truthfully I feel the same way about our moms and our dads. I'm just like, I don't need a holiday to tell me that I need to go celebrate my mom. Like, especially as a mom now, I'm like, man, we should be celebrated every freaking day. Okay. Like, so sure, thanks for giving us our own day. But I think, you know, in the in the initial years, especially after my mom died, I was like, I could care less about this day. I don't really want to do anything. Like, okay, I'll celebrate my mother-in-law, I guess. But like, you know, it just didn't, it didn't do much for me. So, and the anticipation, too, I think is some of the worst parts of it. And I see that in clients, like, even leading up to Christmas in the hall, which makes a lot of sense. There's a lot around Christmas, Thanksgiving, things like that. But it's I what I've learned is it's all of in what you make of it. It's it's as big of a deal as you want it to be, I think. And so, in sort of inadvertently not making it a big deal, I've kind of just I'm like, okay, it's it's a little bit of any other day now. And I kind of was just very go with the flow with it. And I just try because any day we could have mothers stuff thrown at us, like, yeah, it's especially bad if you go and Target or the grocery store or whatever, you see all the cards, like it's it's amplified for sure. And yes, that can be painful, but I I kind of just try and block out the noise a little bit, I I guess. And yeah, so it it's varied by year. It it was a little bit different before coming a mom. It's a little more about me now that I am a mom, but uh yeah, I I think that's my biggest takeaway in these last six years. I'm just like, it's it's gonna be as bad as I choose to make it. So just like any other day of the year now, I just try and maintain that connection with my mom however I can. I'm like, hey, send me a little sign or symbol. Like coins are a big thing with my mom. I'll like find coins everywhere, like little things like that. I've gotten in touch with my woo-woo, kind of more spirituality side, also since since losing her. And so those are the kind of things I I ask for. I just try and feel her energy, like you know, things like that.

unknown 39:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Doesn't make up for her not being here, but it's it's that. So I think I've just tried to frankly downplay it a little bit, and that sounds kind of sad, but it has helped because amplifying it only kind of made that grief a little bit louder.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

So I think you said it really well though, that like what you kind of like put into the holiday is what you're gonna get out of it. You know what I mean? If you're gonna put all this effort in, you're more than likely gonna feel a little bit better about it. If you're gonna feel sad and depressed, that's probably what it's gonna be, you know. And so you just have to like decide what you want, what exactly what energy you want to put into any holiday, you know, Mother's Day or anything else. Sarah, do you have anything to add?

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Yeah, I mean it it's yeah, I Mother's Day is just it's weird because I'm like, oh, I think I'm one of those now. I mean, I don't think I definitely watched like babies exit my body, but like I'm like, oh, okay, this is it's

Sarah Honors Her Mom

SPEAKER_03 40:16

it still doesn't yeah, I'm like, oh, okay. It still doesn't quite feel real because this was like my mom's day and my grandma's day. So, you know, I lost my grandma who was a matriarch on, you know, my father's side, and my mom died, you know, two years less than two years later. So we kind of lost like all holidays, right? Everything fell, and we still haven't regrouped, none of that has come back, right? So I celebrate with my in-laws and with my husband and my kids, but you know, every every holiday collapse. I don't like Christmas. I'm very and I'm very Grinch, uh very anti-Christmas person. So like I like New Year's, whatever. Mother's Day, you know, it's a little Hallmark holiday-ish, but I did love celebrating my mom. We didn't do brunches, we didn't do anything fancy, but I loved being with her on Mother's Day, and I love being with, you know, seeing my grandma on Mother's Day, and I they just no, we never see this, they never get enough celebration, right? And I was just like, this is it, right? Like, I love just every day should be a celebration for them. But of course, it was like it was weird to shift to like we lost that, and then now like I'm one, and it just, yeah, it just, you know, we hang out this year, and I know I'll see Chelsea right before, but I get to do like grief events, and I'm like connecting in this community, and I love that we are just kind of embracing like that. There's so many like sucky parts of this on top of celebrating, you know, uh the moms and still celebrating our moms, like just because they're dead does not mean like I still don't want to like honor mine and celebrate her. I just went to the store and I found a Mother's Day card while looking for others, and it was like perfect for her. And I was like, again, if someone wants to come like commit me to a unit of some sort, I'm buying her a card right now. Like, I don't even care, I don't even know what I'm gonna do with it. But it just like looked like it was for her. It was like with the card I would have given her, and I'm just like, I don't really know. You know, we go through the motions we eat, I get to snuggle my babies, and like yeah, I cry a lot. Like, I'm definitely not like I'm a like I'm a sap. If anyone's read my stuff, like I lean into the dark, I lean into the sad, I will tell people like this sucks, right? Like very much so. So, like, yeah, I'll hold her urn and I will probably cry that Sunday. And there's no, yeah, like my husband one day I'll be one moment I'll be smiling, holding my girls, and they did make Mother's Day, you know, bearable again, and they made it a beautiful day for me again. But yeah, he'll come in, I'll probably be crying, holding an urn like a total, you know, weirdo, and like we're just gonna roll with it because I miss her, and that day like we used to, that was hers. It doesn't feel like my day, and maybe that'll shift over time. But I'm like, I still don't even think I've grasped that I'm a mom, right? She's mom, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

So yeah, yeah, okay I one, I love that you bought the card because I think we need to normalize that. We need to normalize that it's okay to, you know, buy the griefy card, buy a card that's not griefy for your dead mom. That's okay, you know, absolutely. And I love that what you mentioned because it like, you know, she was mom. Like the even celebrating Mother's Day feels really weird to be like, oh yeah, we were celebrating me. Even when my mom was here, it felt weird, you know, because I had kids and I was being like, but I'm not like I'm calling my mom on Mother's Day. Why are you a kid? Like on me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I 100% relate to that. Even with her being here, it still felt really weird. Because you're right, that is that's our mom's day. Like it's not my day, it's her day. So Chelsea, what about you? What does Mother's Day look like for you and how has it changed, or just anything with after losing your mom?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yeah, I think the First thing for me was just realizing that I can do whatever I need to do on that day and it can look different each year. So for me, it does look different each year.

Chelsea Finds New Rituals

SPEAKER_00 44:11

There are, you know, this is my ninth Mother's Day, I think, without my mom. And so there were times in there where I didn't do anything. I sat on the couch and my pajamas and we would watch movies and I would cry and it would be fine, you know. And I think each year just allows me to either open up in new ways, or sometimes I'm just not ready for anything. Like Sarah said, this year I get to be up in Wisconsin. We're gonna do an event up there. And so this year I actually was like, let's make a weekend of this. So we're going to go to Sheboygan to one of my kids' favorite hotels that has a water park. And I was like, you know, let's make it about them. And then, you know, when they're happy, it's their joyful place. And so I can't ever not be happy when they're there. Obviously, it's stressful watching your kids at a water park, but it's also fun. So, you know, that's gonna look different this year, but really just allowing myself to say, okay, I'm not gonna make plans, so we're not gonna do anything with anybody else, and because I don't know what today's gonna look like. And at the beginning, when we would make plans with, you know, my mother-in-law or even sister-in-law's, you know, it was too much. And so I realized that it was just causing way too much stress and anxiety, and now we just we we show up that day however I am, and some days we do things and some days we don't, and that's okay. And then the other thing we'd started doing with my children is, you know, like Sarah said, you want to buy your mom a card and you do, and I love that you did, because for a while I realized I can't buy my mom anything and I want to appreciate her. And so what we started doing as a family is celebrating either it could happen on Mother's Day or Mother's Day weekend, but we'll find a woman or someone that needs to be blessed, and we'll anonymously either maybe give them a huge tip that day at a restaurant, or if we don't go to a restaurant, maybe we buy flowers and drop them off at a neighbor's house, or try to find some mom or some person that, you know, we're gonna use the money we would have for my mom and we're gonna bless somebody anonymously and just say it's it's because of my mom, you know, and then that way it helps us feel a little bit better. So it is a little bit selfish because it does help us feel better, and then it also helps me feel like her heart is still continuing the way she taught us to. So those things have helped, but still it's a hard day. It just is, you know.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

I absolutely love what you do, like when you bless another's person. I think that's beautiful. It's oh it's beautiful. I may just copy that. Yeah, too.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

I'm like, Telsa, I love that. I want to do that. Let's do it. Less crying on an urn, more blessing somebody, please. Like, come on. You're right. Let's do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

And I think the other thing that you bring up, Chelsea, that's really great is that it's okay to have no expectation. It's ex it's okay to go into the day with no expectation to just be. And if you decide to do something, great. If you decide to do something and in the middle of doing that something, it's not working, aboard ship is okay. You know, like I think we put these expectations, which I think in the very beginning is very common that we're like, well, we should we should be doing this, we should be doing this, because that's kind of what you know the world tells us is like we should be honoring our mom by doing this. And in reality, that's probably what's making it worse, is that that you're putting that, you know, you're shooting all over yourself instead of being like, Hey, I just want to do this. Because, you know, and if that is holding an urn and crying, that's okay. Yeah, you know, if that is, you know, making a really big celebration and going out for brunch, that's okay. If it's this and if it is buying a plane ticket and going to Wisconsin to a you know, dead, you know, mom club brunch, go. You know, just a shout out. Um I would be there in a heartbeat if I still lived in Wisconsin. Still I would be there in a heartbeat if I lived there. So, anyway, for those listening that have just lost their mom, what is something you want them to hear? What is something that you would want to share with them in this moment right now?

Advice for New Loss

SPEAKER_04 48:23

Tara, we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

Okay, this is like the most amazing question, but wow, okay. There's so much I want to say, but I think I'm I'm just going with my gut and my first reaction to things today. I think just knowing and acknowledging that it can and will change I'm not gonna maybe say your entire identity, but it will shift some very big parts of your identity. Not all at once. I think, and whether you become a mom yourself or not, like it totally does not matter. Like, I think just losing someone that we literally came from who is our I saw a post and I cannot remember who this was, but there was something about like there are first kind of like exposure to like nervous system regulation or something like that. Sarah, you might be able to speak to that, but like there's there's so much of our mom that we are tied to that's so beyond just like, oh, I love my mom, she's so great, she's so fun, whatever. Like, no, it's we are so their DNA and they are ours. And it is for me, it was such a lesson in like continued bonds and like what that actually means and what that actually looks like, and not just physically, but like our brain chemistry and just like just grieving in general, like you know, changes our brain, it rewires some things. But I think especially with a mom, there is so much there to unpack, which is a separate conversation. But um, I think you know, sounds so cliche, but just giving ourselves so much grace and knowing it's gonna be a process, and yes, it can and it will hurt along the way. But I think we've all touched on aspects of this today, like yes, it can change us, and yes, it's going to amplify some things, and yes, there can definitely be some pain and some darkness and some things to work through there. But if we're open to it, like it can also, our moms teach us a lot about life anyway, but those lessons do continue on throughout our life, and more comes to the surface, like you said, Chelsea, as we just naturally get older too, just with age comes wisdom, right? And so just being open to that and how our identity is going to shift and just not not being surprised by that. I think I was like surprised at some of the things that happened in this process or some of the ways that I've changed for the better, for the worse, whatever. You know, you you really are, I've kind of touched on this, but you are getting to know yourself again. And it is without, I would say, like with my parents, like they were my North stars, and you you lost a big North Star. It is a person, I'm not gonna speak for everybody, but like for those of us who had a really lovely, loving relationship with our our moms, like they there's no putting words to how they impacted our life, and to have that taken away from us, and I think in all of our cases, what feels very prematurely like that messes with you. I'll just there, I have no eloquent way of putting that, but it just does. And so just giving so much grace for that, and I'll have clients like exp express certain things, and I'm like, of course you feel that way. Like, yeah, think about the layers in which this loss affects us. It's not just their lack of presence. There's there's so so so much that comes after, and more of that is revealed with time. And so that's just I think the big thing I would just say is like you can be surprised by that, but like don't be surprised by that. It's okay, right? Like that these things continue to reveal themselves and just be open to it, learn from it. Like all we can, I think, do I'll just speak for myself, is like just try and be a better person from it, you know. Like, I never want my mom's memory or things that she taught me here in the physical world or continues to teach me from wherever she is now to like be in vain. And so that's where I've really lean into, you know, her absence and like my purpose here and and helping people and giving back like you do, Chelsea. Like, there's all these little, I hate to call them gifts, because I never want to be like, oh yeah, keep grief gives us gifts. But like it kind of does in a really twisted way. And we unfortunately are part of a club we didn't ask to be in, but it is very much what you make of it in a lot of ways. And but again, for someone who's like really early on and you're like not there in the like, oh, I'm so grateful for this. Yeah, like that's okay. Like, don't don't rush yourself to get there. A lot of it comes with time, with processing, with the right uh tools and things to to heal, which is very much a continuous journey. But yeah, I think just just letting it flow and letting the emotions and everything out too, because it's it's very heavy when you lose such a pivotal person in your life like that.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

Yeah, yeah. Well said. Chelsea, what would you add? What is something you'd want to hear?

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Yeah, I think I don't know what I would have wanted to hear, but I think what most helpful for me is that two different things. One is that the expectations you have for grief and the expectations the world has for the way that you grieve are not going to be met, and they're not gonna look like you know, you've envisioned or the world tells you they should. And so really you need to design what this looks like and how to move forward. And the best thing that anyone ever told me was about six months in to, and I don't know if it's the best, but it made the most sense to me, and it's still true to this day, is that when someone you love dies, grief is like riding a really scary roller coaster in the fog. So you know that there are ups and downs, and you know that there are lots of them, but you have no idea because of the fog, you know, when they're gonna hit and when there's highs and when there's lows. And it was actually somebody in the hospice that had told me that. And it made the most sense for me because, you know, we anticipate days like Christmas or Mother's Day to be a hard day. We can anticipate that. We know it's coming. What we may not know is that sitting at our daughter's choir concert and they end up playing my mom's favorite song is gonna send me into a puddle, you know, or seeing my kid ride his bike for the first time is gonna trigger an emotion in me. And so we don't always know when our highs and our lows are gonna be. I always tell people the one that surprised me most was like aisle nine, the baking aisle of Kroger, and I saw my mom's almond, you know, extract that she used every time, and it was on a random day, and it got me good. So, you know, just whatever your expectations are, just know that they're probably gonna be so different for how you actually grieve your mom, and just more than anything, know that this is yours. It's as unique as a fingerprint, even if you have siblings or other, you know, cousins or whoever, you know, this is your relationship. So your grief is gonna be very unique and and defined that way. And find your people, I think that's a really important thing. And, you know, all of us are also, you know, here for you from afar, but it's it's really hard that there's nothing that can prepare you or soothe you in the way that you need.

SPEAKER_04 56:15

Yeah, yeah. And I think you're right that like grief is as unique as a fingerprint. One thing that I have a quote that someone told me is that you're the expert in your own grief. There's no one else gonna be an expert in any else is else anyone else's grief but your own. You know, you're your own expert in yourself, and that comes to your own grief too. So yeah. Sarah, what about you? What would you add?

SPEAKER_03 56:42

I was kind of thinking like what I would say to someone who's like early grief and approaching Mother's Day, but it doesn't have to be like that. But just you know, I think Tara mentioned like not everyone who's listening who's just lost their mom, like loved their mom in the same way that we have. And just everything about what you're feeling is valid, and that might mean that you did not have a good relationship, or if your mom died when you were a baby, right? Or just you know, is your mom alive? Like you can still be greedy. This might not even be related to death loss, but just to know like there's nothing broken about you, and everything you're feeling is valid. And if it feels weird, even just to be listening to us and hear us talk about how wonderful these women were and how much we love our mom, like it is okay to navigate around the lost community or the grief community and find the people that do resonate. Like, my story might not resonate with a lot of people because I really adored my mom, right? My mom was abandoned by her mom at four years old, like left, right? She had like a mother wound. We grew up watching Mother's Day be painful for her, right? While also mothering us, and we know how complicated it can be, and what these wounds are not just right, grief from death. And so just just anyone listening, like it's okay if this does not resonate and still whatever you're feeling on this day or whatever, like it's all real, it's all valid. It's and just giving permission for it to be what it is. And it's okay if your mom was not an angel, it's okay if your relationship was not beautiful and all of that, and you still have permission to grieve and permission to do on that day whatever you want. So, yeah, just you know what everyone else is saying too, but also just I I know that this day, it's not always celebrating, like it could just be a day of grieving, and it might have been a day of grieving even before your mom died. So just to kind of yeah, bring that into the room. It's okay if these stories and this love that we're speaking about or these relationships like don't fit your narrative, and that's okay. I'm very big on community. Like Chelsea said, I I would not have survived if it wasn't for a writing, B, community. So find your, you know, find your people and find the stories that you know that make the most sense or people who might be earlier in loss. Like it's okay if me being eight years out, if my stuff does not, you know, if that doesn't feel comforting, that's okay, right? Yeah, there's there's there's stories out there that will connect, and I really, really recommend to you know find those people.

SPEAKER_04 59:14

Yeah, I one thank you for bringing awareness to how you know we're grieving more than just people that have passed, you know. We are grieving relationships, we are grieving things like that as well, and how that can be difficult. And again, there's no right or wrong way with that, and you're whatever you're feeling is valid exactly. And I'm just gonna resonate that like find your people is a really strong message because you know, like we can all say once we found the right people, it you know, things went into place for us, and we were able to, you know, move through our grief a little differently. And like you said, Sarah, if I'm not your people, that's okay. There are other stories out there that will find your people. That is one of the reasons I love doing the podcast because I bring more stories to people. It's one of my favorite things about doing panel podcasts because I bring three stories to one episode, and I think it's huge. I love them. So thank you so much for being here and sharing your stories and your moms with us. Uh greatly appreciate every single one of you and Sarah and Chelsea have an amazing time in Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

We're here having FOMO next year. We're all going. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

Or we can even create our own. Maybe like we put it even more centrally located, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:49

Yes, something.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:51

So that's it. Thank you so much, ladies.