217. Navigating Suicide Loss: How One Mom Turned Losing Her Son into Purpose with Erin Blechman

When grief becomes the very thing that leads you to help others heal, that's when loss truly starts to become a gain.

In this episode, I'm sitting down with Erin Blechman—mom, certified grief educator, and suicide loss survivor—for a conversation that is raw, real, and so deeply needed. Erin shares the story of her son Max, a wildly creative, deeply sensitive, and brilliantly funny young man who lived with medication-resistant depression and epilepsy, and who she lost to suicide in June 2020, right in the thick of COVID.

Here's what we dig into:
✨ The early grief fog: numbness, depression, yearning, and an anger that surprised even her 
✨ How journaling became a lifeline and eventually evolved into a book
✨ The coping tools that helped her survive: creating a memorial garden and finding her people in a suicide loss support group
✨ Her path to becoming a certified grief educator who now leads online grief groups and speaks publicly about suicide loss
✨ The cultural problem of grief illiteracy
✨ Parental guilt, the brutal "what ifs," and how Erin learned to reframe them into "even ifs"
✨ Why healing in community isn't just helpful, it's transformative

If you've ever lost someone to suicide, loved someone who struggled, or just needed a reminder that your grief doesn't have to look a certain way to be valid, this one's for you.

Connect with Erin

• https://www.instagram.com/erin.blechman/
• https://erinblechman.com/
• https://www.facebook.com/erin.blechmanauthor

Click here to get your copy of Love Like Thunder, Grief Like Rain: https://earthgrief.love/

Transcript

Welcoming Erin to the podcast

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Promise that we're gonna keep them safe. And we can't always keep those promises. When something devastating happens, we would rather take the blame than admit that we were powerless. And so that guilt I just think is off the charts for so many parents. And frankly, I think it's what keeps a lot of parents kind of stuck in that cycle of suffering. Yes. Because they can't forgive themselves. Yes. And they can't let go of what they think is their responsibility or culpability or whatever in the death of their child.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Welcome to the Life with Grief podcast. I'm your host, grief and soul purpose coach, and fellow griever, Tara Ocardo.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Erin, welcome to The Life with Grief. I'm so excited for this conversation. I've been so excited for this conversation. I feel like this one is long overdue. Like many of the guests that I have here on the podcast, we have been connected for a little while now through this grief work that we all do. And it's been such a pleasure getting to know you here and there through that. But, you know, I know maybe like someone here listening, or maybe here someone here listening does not know any of your story. Uh, they'll get a little glimpse of it in the episode title. But um I am so excited to dig into this more with you and learn more about you and what this, you know, I'm using this term very loosely, what this journey has been like for you, but also all of the incredible work that you do, the book that you have written in the wake of the loss that you have experienced. And it has been very inspiring for me and for listeners here to understand a little bit more about you and your story. Like there's so many, as I say, principles of grief, I guess, that we can all just see each other in, which I think is, you know, so beautiful amongst a very twisted, sad situation. So yeah, I just know you do such a beautiful job of making people feel very, very seen. So thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Thank you, Tara. It's just my pleasure. I'm I'm thrilled. Anytime I get a chance to talk about my Max, I relish.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So I'm looking forward to talking, letting your listeners know a little bit about him and just kind of the journey that he as a person as well as his passing have put me on. Yeah. Because I feel like a lot of what I'm doing now is to honor him and to help people remember him because he was the most interesting person I've ever known. Yeah. And to this day. And so I want others to get to know a little bit about him as well.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Definitely. Okay, that just gave me a chill. So that was beautiful. Okay. Well, first, let's okay, so definitely let's we we will we will get to his death, certainly, but let's actually start there. Can you t tell us a little bit about Max?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Oh, yeah, he was he was just an amazing, amazing person. So he was my firstborn, and uh when he was born, he was very sensitive. First of all, I need to back up when I was pregnant with him. I had a dream about delivering a baby boy. This was 31 years ago, so it wasn't everybody didn't know the the dream like they do. So I had a dream that I delivered a baby boy with big, beautiful brown eyes and just a chubby face, and that was him. So when you know, when he was born and he started to, you know, just get that that infant chub. I was like, oh, this is the baby from my children.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Manifested him.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

And he was just love as an as an infant, he it was apparent he was very sensitive, and that just continued to manifest itself throughout his life. He was just a quirky, funny little guy. He spoke in full sentences at 15 months. So we would have these, I know.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

My daughter's two, and she's like two or three words is where we're at right now. Like, oh my god, it's impressive.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Yeah, yeah. He was a very intelligent, very bright little boy. He read his first Harry Potter book between kindergarten and first grade. Just really, really an intelligent, creative, quirky, eccentric little guy. And then he grew up to be a sensitive and compassionate teenager and young adult who's very creative. He was a drummer, he was a writer, he did stand-up comedy. Yeah, he was a complexity. Yeah,

Mental Health and Loss

SPEAKER_01 4:27

and all throughout that, he struggled with a mental health issue. He had uh medication-resistant depression, he also had epilepsy, and so he had these two illnesses of the brain that really just impacted his independence, his self-esteem, and all and ultimately it was that tender heart that just kind of got the better of him. This world was just too much for him. And so he ended up leaving us in June of 2020. And he did die by suicide, kind of right in the thick of COVID. He lost his job, his gym closed, he kind of lost his social circle, as as we all did, you know. And as I said, it was just kind of too much. It was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back. And so he had struggled with his depression for, I mean, really, when I look back, it was his whole life, but he was officially diagnosed at 18. And he struggled until he died with that at 25, was hospitalized several times for suicide ideation, also hospitalized for the epilepsy, either for testing or for accidents and injuries that he sustained while having seizures. So, you know, we always feared that we would lose him. Yeah, but when it happened, it just it rocked our world. I don't think you can ever prepare yourself for the death of a loved one. And certainly not the death of a child. It's it's just it's out of order. It's devastating. And you know, I always say, because the grief work I do now with other bereaved parents, it's not all suicide specific, but I consider any child loss dramatic because it's it's out of order. And most of the times when you're losing a child, it's to you know, an accident, an illness, an overdose, suicide, and those are all traumatic ways to lose someone. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Oh my god. Well, I I this is so generic. I'm so sorry, of course, for the loss of Max. He sounds incredible, but I can absolutely I mean, listen, this world is difficult for a lot of people. Add on epilepsy and medication-resistant depression on top of. I mean, you know, it's one of those things like it's you can truly only begin to imagine, right? What coping with that must must have been like and add COVID on top of it too. You know, speaking of feeling very isolated and you know, losing a lot of your like stability and all of that in the midst of I mean, yeah. So my heart just goes out to him, it goes out to you. And it's I've I've said this, you know, I never like to compare losses. Everyone's, you know, worst losses, they're worse for them, and all of that. But I will say, becoming a mother now, as I have, I've said this on the podcast before, and having lost parents, right? That was of course devastating. But we came close to losing our daughter, and there's something about I'm like, that's worst. Like that's like that's worse. You know, I know we're gonna like say that because I don't want to like diminish anyone's loss, but like it really is just so so wrong, so unfair, right? And my my beautiful aunt also lost a son in a car accident, like, and I I lost a friend to an overdose, so I can, you know, my heart is with his mom, and so yeah, there's just something not right about that, even though there's no right about any loss, it feels like, but some just to your point, it's just so out of order. I think of my grandmother losing my mom. My dad's parents were already gone by the time that he died, but yeah, and to yeah, just the the outliving,

How to Keep Living

SPEAKER_04 8:15

and so that's kind of where I want to go with this with you a little bit. And I talk to other bereaved parents about this too, like it's a big question, and answer this however you want, but like, how do you continue living? And like not just existing, right? Because and I think this is so important, especially for any bereaved parent here who is just like, I'm I'm barely scraping by, I'm beyond sad doesn't even cover it, right? Like they might feel depressive as well, and they're just I cannot go on. That's my baby, you know, and we can feel that with anyone, any loss here. So I want to, you know, of course, normalize that. But as a parent yourself, even though the suicidal ideations and things might have happened before, to your point, nothing prepares you for when it actually happened. So when it did actually happen, like again, big question, but like what where did you go from there? How did you even begin to process?

Numbness, Depression, and Anger

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Well, when I look back, uh that you know, I was numb for a long time. And that, you know, that shock and that numbness that you experience in the face of a devastating loss, it it really is a protective mechanism because it's what allowed us to write his obituary and make the calls to family and friends that he had died and plan his visitation and memorial service, you know, things that parents never should have to do. And so, you know, there was that numbness. And then I would say what happened after that was depression and anger. So, you know, he suffered with this medication-resistant depression that I didn't understand when he was alive because I hadn't suffered.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Oh, could you? Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

And then when he died, I fell into a depression myself. So that summer I had a hard time getting out of bed. Yeah. And, you know, it was, it was just, I wasn't sure I could survive it, and I wasn't even sure that I wanted to. And I remember, so I remember that yearning that I had to be with him, even though I have another beautiful son, Sam, and I have a wonderful husband, Bill, and lots of family and friends. But that yearning to be with Max was so strong in those first months. And I remember the first time I verbalized that to, well, first it was to my therapist, and she point blank asked me, Do you have plans to hurt yourself? And I said no. And then I told a friend, and I could just see the fear in her eyes. And I remember thinking, Oh, I can't tell that. I can't say that to people because it scares them.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

And it's you know, it kind of scared me too, to be honest. But anyway, so that depression really kind of settled on me that first summer, that you know, those first few months. And so my therapist encouraged me to journal because I I, you know, she would say to me, How are you feeling? And I would say, I don't know. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

So many clients that do that too. They're like, I don't even, I'm like, you dig a little deeper, you probably could figure out how you're actually feeling. So let's do that. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

So she encouraged me to journal, and I did. And uh those journal entries were incredibly cathartic and therapeutic because I was writing about my feelings and my thoughts and my grief in real time. And that's what eventually evolved into my book, which is just it was it was totally providential. So that was like those first few months. And then I would say, I don't even remember when the anger came in, but I was angry, really angry for a very long time. I was never angry at Max because I don't believe that suicide is a choice. I believe that no one who chooses to do that, who who you know goes through with it is in their right frame of mind. It's not a it's not a well-thought out, rational decision. It's just not. So I don't even consider it a choice. And I was never angry with him because I knew how much pain he was in. And so, but I was angry with everybody else. Yeah, I was angry with other families that were intact. Yeah, you know, I remember running into people and they would tell me these were the two things that like I thought I it's a miracle I didn't it I didn't hit somebody, but either parents that that told me how wonderful all their children were and how well everybody was doing, or parents who complained about their children. Oh my god. And yeah, yeah, and I thought, well, I wish my son were here to complain about, but he's not because he's dead. Yes. And so like that anger just really took hold of me. And uh, and you know, I was angry at people who approached me in the grocery store with that, you know, stricken look on their face and asked me how I was. I was angry with people who cut me off in the, you know, on the highway. Uh yeah, I was really angry at God. I'm a person of faith, and I just really felt abandoned and betrayed. So that anger really, and and looking back, you know, I know anger is a secondary emotion. It was covering up just the intense sorrow that I felt, but anger felt more powerful. It felt more, it was certainly more accessible for me, and it felt like something productive. It felt like I was in control, like channeling it somewhere, and yeah, as opposed to the sorrow just like overtaking me. So, so you know, that's kind of where I was for a long time. And again, all the while, the you know, for the first 18 months I journaled, and that became as I said became my book, and so you know, and I don't even Tara, I never sat down and said, I'm gonna write a book, I think. Yeah, I I think somebody said you you should write a book. I thought, okay, maybe I will. So that you know, just kind of evolved. And and then that book was published in the spring of 2022, so not quite two years after he died. And then I just started to connect with all of these really moms all over the country, some all over the world, frankly, about either their children who struggled with a mental health issue or bereaved moms who had lost their child. And I just thought, I mean, I know my story and I had, you know, my experience, but I felt like I wanted to provide additional support and additional care to these people instead of just being able to empathize. And so I became a certified grief educator, and so in um, I think it was February of 2023, I offered my very first online grief group for brief parents, and I've been doing that ever since. And it is such an honor to walk alongside these other parents, yeah, because I mean, you know, not everybody can handle our grief stories.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

Most people can't in a real deep, meaningful way, in the way that we really need them to.

unknown 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah. Yeah, the way we need. And so when someone shares that with me, it feels like an honor. And I think it's like sacred to be led into that. And for people to trust me enough to share their precious children, who they love every bit as much as I love my Max. And so, yeah, that's what I've been doing. And then I also do speaking at conferences, community groups, churches, uh, colleges, universities, just whoever will let me come and tell them about my Max and let me talk about mental health and suicide loss and grief. So that's kind of where what his loss has propelled me to do. But if you had told me, well, certainly prior to losing him, if you had told me this is what I would be doing, or even shortly after, I don't know if I would have after screamed.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Because this was never anything that I envisioned myself doing. Yeah. And yeah, it's it's just, it all feels like I said, just very providential.

SPEAKER_04 16:14

Yeah. I think that's the case for a lot of us who find our ourselves in this work, right? I think it usually takes like some life-altering loss of some kind to even, you know, get us there to understand what that feels like. But then, you know, there are some of us who are called to take it a step further and then hold that space for people or sort of, you know, be that person that we didn't have, so to speak, you know, hear that a lot. But to take it back, I just want to thank you so much for naming that level of anger and like what, like what you said there. I think that's so, so powerful and so important to name because, first of all, again, I'm thinking of clients that are are or have experienced that right now. I'm sure there could be some people listening to this podcast that is also feeling that. And there's a lot of very complex things that come with that anger. And I you said it beautifully. It was like that secondary, it's covering something, right? Like, I noticed a lot of the anger that I felt, more so around my mom's passing, because I was like, I just felt like there was more that even she could have done, or like just more could have been done to catch the cancer earlier than it was. Like, there was some stuff around that in my situation. And again, it's like for me, I agree. Like, I wasn't angry so much with heart, maybe like a little bit with her, because she was the one who decided not to go to the doctor as early as she maybe could have. But I was like, that doesn't even matter now. She's gone. Like, what I don't want to hold that against her. I'm just so angry this happened. Like, you're just almost angry at God, at the universe, at the cards we were dealt, right? It's almost like misplaced basically. But what you described is so common. And I it's yeah, it's just it's so common. And I see especially the comment about other people in our lives complaining about the loved one that we no longer have or venting or whatever. And it can make us just feel like the world and those people around us who are supp, you would think, quote unquote, supposed to be more sensitive to us and our feelings and our situation. They seem so tone-deaf. And it I feel like a lot of that then makes us feel even more invisible and kind of misunderstood. And it's a journey of realizing like the world does not stop for us and our grief. It does not, it's not kind. People move forward, they maybe you know, don't forget. That's maybe a strong word, but like no one's gonna truly ever understand the pain that we're in, like we are, and we have to continue working and continu, you know, like it's it's easy to mask. So they're never gonna fully understand the depth of it. But I think anyway, it's just again, what you called out is so important, and I just want to like say that for anyone listening because I see that a lot. I've been through it too in my own way, and it's it's scary, it's ugly sometimes, right? We're seeing this version of ourselves that we've maybe never seen, and it's bitter, and we're just us against the world a little bit, and coming out of that is not easy sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Like if I could add to that, yes, please, you know, so we all see the world through our lens. And so, like one of the things that we often talk about as groups of bereaved moms is all of the hurtful and insensitive things people say to us. Yeah, and nobody means to, nobody sits there and thinks, okay, what's the what's the most awkward, kind thing I can say? They just say whatever they say from their own experiences, their own experiences, their own lens, their their own discomfort. And we're the same, you know. Like, like I when when I was in those early dark days of Max's death, that that just deep dark grief, of course I was seeing everything through that lens. So, you know, it's just it kind of speaks to our self-centered nature, is that it's hard to see, it's hard to see from someone else's point of view. Yes, and so as a result, we're just you know, kind of like bumping into each other and saying the wrong thing and maybe doing the wrong thing because that's what we are as humans. So yeah, I I I've been thinking a lot about that lately. So I'm I'm kind of glad you brought that up. Yeah because I was at the beginning, I was like, what's wrong with them? And now, you know, almost six years later, I can say, What yes, what's wrong with them, but you know, also we have to take our little accountability.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

That's what I guide to clients through too. Cause I'm just like, okay, like I understand you feel like the entire world is just a big bucket of insensitive, horrible people, but like maybe not though. Like, I don't know. And it's yeah, it's just funny reflecting that back because you know, a lot of the times they're like, Oh, yeah, okay. Well, and you kind of get there on your own time too. So I feel that. So, so actually walk me through that really quick. Because again, so for anyone here listening who's maybe like, yeah, I'm there, or yeah, I've been there, or yeah, I'm kind of going through that. Like, I feel like I'm coming out of that a little bit, but like, the world is still just, I don't know. I don't love it. It's ugly, it's unfair, all the things.

Coping Garden and Groups

SPEAKER_04 21:39

You mentioned writing and therapy, it sounds like as well. Was there anything else? I'm just in terms of like coping tools, right? Things maybe people here listening could kind of walk away with today. And it sounds like maybe some group work. Although, did you did you go to groups yourself as a participant first and then you say, okay, so yeah, walk me through that. And then if there was anything else that helped you cope. So to speak.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah, that thank you. I'm glad I'm glad you asked that question because there are some things I can share. So obviously the journaling was huge. Sure. You know, that was very thoughts and feelings. And then I I am a very active griever. And so the summer that Max died, we had people give us a variety of items for our yard. We got a bench, we got like a commemorative stone, a plaque, a tree plants. So we installed a memorial garden for him on our property. And it's right kind of at the base of our driveway. So I see it every time I come in and go out of our driveway, which is really lovely. And so that felt really good to get out there first of all to plan, you know, okay, where am I going to put these things so that it's pretty and aren't just thrown together. So there was that kind of creative thought process of planning the garden and then installing it, you know, digging in the ground and getting my hands dirty. That was also really cathartic. And I would say that the journaling and the gardening were the two creative methods I used, not necessarily with the intent of processing my grief, but that was the outcome just kind of happens.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

They both were helpful. Yeah. And so I, you know, I'm a big proponent. I've you know I've talked to people who paint or who color or who you know do even like collages just like rip things out of magazines and put them on a poster or something. So I'm I I do think that that whole creative process can really help us in processing what we're feeling. And then the other thing that we didn't know that we needed was a support group. So I was seeing an individual therapist. My husband and I were seeing a marriage therapist. We had been seeing I had been seeing my therapist and we'd been seeing the marriage therapist even before Max died. That's because to have a child who struggles the way he did was really difficult. Of course. So I was really thankful that we had those relationships established and continued those after his death and we had a very supportive community of family and friends. But then at the year mark all three of us me, my husband Bill and our other son Sam, we all tanked. I think it was because there's this cultural mindset that after a year you'll start start to feel a little bit you for saying this.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

And we didn't as a matter of fact I think in some ways we felt worse because expectation like okay if I can just get to that year mark I'll feel a little bit better and and we didn't and so it was then that we joined a suicide survivor support group and and how we arrived at that and how that all transpired is is a whole story in and of itself. But I remember so Sam and his then girlfriend at the time Julio started to go to it first it was online.

unknown 24:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

And it was he they probably went to it three or four times and Sam said I think you would really like this mom and dad. And at first I thought well if it's yours like I don't want to hone in on your you know your territory your thing and he said no I think it would be really beneficial. So we did we joined my husband and I about four to six weeks later and tar we we instantly felt like we'd found our people there was nothing that we said that we didn't see all the heads nodding there was nothing that we felt we couldn't share with that group of people it was it was so validating that I remember after the first you know Zoom meeting we hung up and I just wept because I thought

Why Groups Are Healing

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I I finally felt seen I finally felt that people understood. And so I yes I I mean I I could shout from the rooftops about support groups because it was honestly the singest big old biggest factor in my healing. Wow and you know in the midst of all these other things I was also a little support yeah it was the thing that just I mean there's just nothing like being with people who understand.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

I just I don't think there's as as as supportive and loving as our other friends and family were as wonderful as my therapist was just being with people who had experienced the same kind of loss was it was just everything.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

Yeah I love that. And you don't have to explain yourself maybe in a way like I think that's what's so beautiful and like a lot of people I've met that have lost one or both parents especially like I have it's just like if you meet the right people there's just this unspoken thing of like I got you you don't even have to say anything. Like we all had our own relationships with them of course you know we can't like project our stuff onto anyone else but like there's just that camaraderie if you will that's just like oh I don't feel the pressure to have to explain myself or my grief or why I am or aren't feeling a certain way five six or whatever years later like it just is right. And I love that you did that on top of these other things that you maybe didn't even know were like helping you process and actually grieve at the time which I think so thank you for calling out like the R and all of that like and mentioning you know these are what worked for me but that's a beautiful invitation to anyone here listening. It's like it is I say this many times on this podcast, you know, finding what works for you. And that's why I love to ask people ask guests you know to share what has worked for them so it can just give people some ideas, a little inspiration and or maybe it just sparks something that you know could could work for them. And I'm I will also just say I'm so happy you found a really profound like helpful support group because I've heard other people both on and off this podcast say like I went to a support group and honestly it was not helpful. I did not find my people or if they were like kind of maybe like a little younger my age or younger even and they were like I went to like a parents law support group and they were all way older than me. And it's like I didn't feel related to those people in that way. So I think it's very much like finding a good therapist you kind of have to like find the right one and that can take a little research sometimes which I know it's just like Tara I'm grieving like I I already don't have a lot of mantle bandwidth right but that's such a beautiful example of like if you put in a little bit of that work and you do find the right one like how much it can quite literally change your life for the better. Yeah absolutely which is so important. Yeah wow I was just curious in the support group of course you know you don't have to go into like a ton of detail about this and keeping an anonymity and at all anonymous and everything but just like in terms of themes or like other what you see in other parents either when you were in those groups as a supporter or now you lead in groups like this you had mentioned like there's some things that come up where everyone's just nodding their head they're like yeah yeah are there any like themes or things that you have seen in those like community spaces like that that are just like these how do I want to word this like themes of grief and like things that you you know you have seen that we could call out of like very common trends if you will that people go through as they're grieving? Is there anything you've seen

Common Grief Themes

SPEAKER_04 29:32

there?

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah I think because we live in a grief illiterate society so people don't we don't talk about grief openly we're so we're so separate from grief now. You know a hundred years ago when somebody died you had their casket in your front room and everybody came to your home to visit most a lot of people lived on farms so they saw death and birth every day. You know so it we're just so removed now. You know we go to the grocery store we buy our food in little plastic packages and anyway we're just really removed from grief or death and so we're grief illiterate. We don't talk about it a lot we don't understand it. And so I think the the number one thing or maybe the the two things I hear from parents is there's something wrong with me because we feel so badly for so long that we think I I know I felt that way. I thought oh like this isn't normal this isn't right. So we feel like there's something wrong with us and then we think oh well then I'm just not grieving right. So I you know there's something I should be doing that I'm not doing there's something I'm doing that I shouldn't be doing so I think those are two big things. And then so you know being part of a group and having everybody else say yeah me too really helps. Then you just feel less alone. And the other thing that I think I see most in parents I think moms and dads although I have way more experience with breed moms is guilt. The guilt that we feel and I think every I think guilt and grief go hand in hand personally because since we lost Max I I also lost my mother and father. They were both elderly and sick but I just think you know every time you lose somebody you have guilt or regrets about you know what you could have done.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Yeah yeah

Guilt and Acceptance

SPEAKER_01 31:24

and so but with with parenting I think that guilt is at a whole different level because responsible for them yeah yeah we're responsible we vow to protect them when they're little we hold them in their arm in our arms when they're babies and promise that we're going to keep them safe and we can't always keep those promises. And so when something devastating happens we would rather take the blame than admit that we were powerless. And so that guilt I just think is off the charts for so many parents and frankly I think it's what keeps a lot of parents kind of stuck in that cycle of suffering. Yes. Because they can't forgive themselves and they can't let go of what they think is their responsibility or culpability or whatever in the death of their child. And you know that I think that breaks my heart because well first of all I was there. I was absolutely there and people who knew me you know those first couple of years I mean I would verbalize on a regular basis I will never accept the death of my son. I said those words multiple times. And you know because I thought what does that even look like I felt like acceptance meant approval and it wasn't until I realized that acceptance was just acknowledgement of reality that I felt something shift kind of in my mind and in my heart. And you know I was able to say I hate this I will always hate that he's gone I will always hate that you know this is this is the way things had to end and it's it's my reality and so what am I going to do now?

unknown 33:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

But that takes it takes a long time I think at least it did for me to get to that point.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

No million percent yeah and and again once again thank you for naming that too and and naming the fact that like this is and a lot of people probably know or maybe assume this it is not an overnight process of course like processing and working through that with yourself and which is again why I am so such a proponent of working with a grief educator a coach a therapist a grief group whatever because it is hard to work through that in our own brain sometimes when we are not in a good head space and we maybe don't even know how to be kind to ourselves in these moments and give ourselves the grace that we need and to be able to get unstuck if you will but I I'm so glad you said that because I I see that too in bereaved parents but then also a lot of other types of grief, right? It is it is the coulda woulda shoulda's but I again I completely agree it it probably is definitely is you know on a whole nother level for parent which like we've been saying in terms of just we that's our like it seems like our one job right is to just love and protect this little thinking and it's like one of those things where you're just like oh my God I can't even do that what even though it's like not our fault right like but we fe we feel that so it my one kind of last question in in that and you can either answer this in terms of like from your experience or other brief parents that you've seen is like and I ask this for anyone here listening where they're like where do I even start making myself feel okay about that again like what does releasing the guilt and the regret and the coulda woulda should is like where can I even start? Again big question but do you have any words of wisdom for anyone who's maybe having that thought right now

Healing in Community

SPEAKER_04 35:06

yeah well I I I don't think you can do it on your own.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

I really don't you know we when we're grieving we tell ourselves a story and a lot of times we're very unkind to ourselves with that story. And there is no person we would ever talk to who would speak to us the way we speak to ourselves. And so you know when we get stuck in that isolation and we tell that story to ourselves over and over and over again I just don't know how you get out of that. I think you need other people to speak into it. And so you know I always say I think we heal best in community. I don't think we can heal in isolation I just you know I don't and and that's like that's the dichotomy of grief is because when we're grieving that's often what we want to do is you know we want to right under the covers. Yeah yeah me too I didn't want to get out of my bed and so you know you just I think you we need other people who are going to give us the grace that we can't give ourselves who can speak to us the way we can't speak to ourselves who can just make us feel seen and validated and heard and help us realize that we can forgive ourselves because they've forgiven themselves. And you know we're all in this this messy journey together. I just I I can't say enough about community. I really can't I just think it's critical for healing. And that's you know that's why I'm doing these groups is because I know how helpful they were for me and that's my hope is to come alongside other parents and help them in their journey. So yeah I I I think that community is really the key yeah uh in processing and you know one of the things that we talk about in my groups is we turn those what ifs into even ifs. Yes. So I could come up with a new what if every day if I tried. I really don't almost six years later I could think and oh yeah what if what if this that would have changed the outcome that would have changed the reality and you know when you look at those what ifs as as even ifs it just kind of changes your lens like we talked about earlier. It changes the way you look at things it changes the way you talk to yourself and I think that's really important. You know like just as an example one of the what ifs I came up with probably I don't know two and a half years after Max died was he died during the night you know during during the hours I was asleep.

unknown 37:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

And at one point this thought came into my head what kind of mother sleeps through the night when her son is in that much pain that he's taking his life and Tara I was not in the habit of calling Max in the middle of the night like that was not why would you be I mean you're sleeping my brain grabbed hold of that and said if you had called him he would still be here and so when I you know when I really looked at that with the help of other people and you know my therapist my support group other other bereaved parents and said even if I had called him in the middle of the night okay maybe I would have delayed it by a couple of hours maybe I would have delayed it by a couple of days or weeks but do I really think that I had the power to keep him alive if that was not what he wanted like I it's just so I just think that helping other people helping you to see that that you know that soundtrack that we play in our head is not always accurate. Yeah it's not always truthful and it's certainly not always kind.

SPEAKER_04 38:55

No it's it's some of the that's what I was mentioning earlier like we just see this version of ourselves that we we've never spoken to ourselves maybe this harshly or in this way and like the self-blame and the loathing and it's like we don't even want to be in our own body anymore because we can feel so disgusted with ourselves that we even had the nerve to be asleep right with and in a perfectly normal time to be asleep. Like it's just yeah we will literally grab onto anything things that we think are logical on paper but then when you really think about it's like what like no and and and it's and I've heard many people that have spoken about mental health I actually just recently had another guest that I recorded with who lost her partner to to suicide as well and she was like I was never gonna stop her from doing it. You you just said it perfectly right might have delayed it but like they also dealt with mental health issues and it she said it quite bluntly she was like it was gonna happen the the person even you know her partner was even like I'm like I'm not long for this world like this is how I'm gonna go like can you imagine you know like having someone saying that to you it's like whoa so but that's that's so yeah that's just so powerful and yeah just thank you for naming those thoughts because they can I'll be blunt they can get very dark right and it's you're just yeah and I I think that is very much how people can end up spiraling and staying stuck to your point. And it is so important to have if not a group at least a therapist a guide someone to be able to like put that mirror up and be like listen you know like kind of have that pep talk that we just can't really have with ourselves but there is such power in community and having a lot of people right be able to maybe put that mirror up to you or put it up to themselves and just everyone's doing it you know together and that's that's shifts something in us and and that's not to be taken lightly because that's that is how we move forward move through it so to speak however you want to word it. So um wow I love that so last sort of question here for you and this is you know it's a broad question so answer this however you want this could be for anyone dealing with or coping with a loved one who has mental health issues or has also lost a loved one to suicide or um maybe not even a child right frame this however you'd like is there just a final again word of wisdom piece of advice coping tool tip for them to keep in mind today that you would leave people with today?

No Timetable for Grief

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Well you know it might sound like a cliche but I would just say there is no timetable for grief. There's no right or wrong way. Constantly need that reminder so you know I just think if you if you keep in mind some people don't like this quote I do you know grief is love with nowhere to go. And so when my Max died I you know I loved him intensely and he was affectionate and and we hugged and we kissed and you know it was it was just there was a lot of affection in our family and so when I know the whole expression of love. Yeah yeah yeah there wasn't when he was no longer here for me to hug and kiss and sit next to you know with my arm around on the couch that that is really hard and so I that's what I felt I felt like I have all this I'll have my love for him until the day I die. And and then what but what do I do with that love? And that I think is what's so hard to figure out is you know how do you how do you process that and so I would just you know anybody who's listening who feels like there's something wrong with them who feels like they're grieving the wrong way you know who just feels like they should be further along than they are all those things that maybe yeah all those cultural messages we get are also all those things that we tell ourselves I would just say you know it it's individual my mentor says grief is as individual as your fingerprints and so you do it isn't the way I'm gonna do it isn't the way somebody else is going to do it. And that again is why I think community is so helpful is you can see all these people that are grieving in different ways and we're all doing it. Yeah we're all processing we're all trying and everybody looks a little bit different and I think that's okay. So I think that's just what I would say there's no there's no prescription. No and there was sometimes like yeah it'd be lovely to have a magical pill to make us you know yep or you know again five simple steps wouldn't that be great yeah but there there are no simple steps and so just recognizing that it's gonna be messy you're gonna have a step forward a step back and all of that is just okay and part of the process.

SPEAKER_04 43:55

Yeah that step forward step back is important to recognize too thank you for saying that too because that's Where again it's like, oh, okay, cool. I'm doing well. I'm doing well. And then, like, we get might get triggered, something happens, another life event comes up, right? And we're kind of thrown back into it a little bit. And it's like, that's okay. That's normal. Like welcoming my daughter that brought up layers of my grief I had never known in the five years prior. Right. So, like, how can I expect myself not to feel those things? I've never been in that iteration of my grief before. So, like, you know, giving space for those things that come up too.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

One other

Let Feelings Be

SPEAKER_01 44:35

the last thing I'll say is when I was in my early grief, I would have a feeling and I would immediately judge that feeling as good or bad. So, you know, going back to the anger. So I would feel this flare of anger and I'd be like, like I would judge my anger. I would judge myself for being angry. And it took me a really long time to learn that feelings aren't good or bad, they just are. Yeah. And so leaving space for whatever comes up, recognizing it and not judging it. Because again, it's when we judge that that can you know keep us in that cycle of suffering that we don't need to stay in. So I just but and I will say it took me a really long time to learn that. Because I just think we tend to we tend to judge this feeling is good, this feeling is bad, and we try to suppress the bad ones and promote the good ones. And we're not built that way. Right. You know, we're just we're built to have all the feels.

SPEAKER_04 45:34

So well said. And yeah, the the labeling that we put on it, it's like, my God, we're like setting ourselves up for failure if we like, you know, it's like, oh my god, just let and I I get it for a lot of us, it's like the the just letting it be, that's hard. Like I get, I've been there, right? And we don't always have the clarity to be like, okay, self, just be with your feelings. It's like, no, we want to like rationalize, we want a solution, we want to feel better. We like what you just said is perfect, right? We try and tamp down the bad ones and promote the good ones and whatever, but then we like miss the processing, we miss the middle that we have to go through, so to speak, to feel the good ones in a real, like meaningful, longer lasting way, I feel like, if that made sense. So I don't know. It yeah, it is it's a process to say the very least. And it's not always a pretty one. But as you have said today, and you so many wonderful, like tangible coping tools, but then also mindset shifts. So thank you for both of those today. Cause I think you've given listeners here a lot to keep in mind. And as I always like to say, keep in the back of our head for later, even if it doesn't hit or resonate right now, it's conversation like these and and tools, if you will, like these that like I can take myself back. And I was like, it was a little tough to hear in the beginning, but net like I'm glad I heard all of these things because it did give me hope, truthfully. It did give me a little spark of like, okay, well, at least at the time I was like, Well, they can do it, I can do it. You know, it's like even even just that, a little taste of that is like, okay, we can do it and do it together. And so the community component definitely. So encouraging anyone here listening today, like whether that is a virtual group, an in-person group, like, and testing more than one out. Like, I think it's it's like I've seen that so often with therapy and like people that have tried therapy. And I'm just like, well, how many therapists did you try? Well, I just did the one, but it was really, it just wasn't for me. I'm like, I think you gotta give it a little more time than that. Like to find a good personality fit, a person who can really run a group in a way that's impactful and isn't just like, so how are you feeling today? You know, like it it got, it's kind of gone a little deeper than that. So yeah, I just thank you. Thank you so much. You gave everyone here so much to to you know sit with today. The last thing I was gonna ask you is number one, where can people find you, but also your book? And if there was any last words you wanted to say about your book as well, I feel like we have a good idea of it, but like again, where can people find it, buy it, and then where can people connect with you as well?

SPEAKER_01 48:11

So probably the easiest way is through my website, which is Aaron Bleckman, and that's B-L-E-C-H-M-A-N.com. And that has information about my book, it has information about the grief groups that I offer for parents and my speaking. So it's kind of a one-stop shop. And then the only other thing I'll say about the book is you know, when Max died, I did read everything I could get my hands on about child loss. And some of the books were helpful, many were not. And so I really wanted to put out in the world a resource that would have been helpful for me. And one of the things, and and Tara, I don't even know where this idea came from, but I wanted my book to be pretty. I wanted it to have visual appeal because Max was so beautiful. He was such a beautiful and so there that my book, I hired a graphic designer and illustrator. She did these six original illustrations of a bird that appear throughout the book because I kept seeing the same bird in the days and weeks following Max's death. And so I will say the way she laid it out is absolutely beautiful, and all of the credit goes to her because I didn't I didn't tell her to do that. She just somehow knew. And so, you know, there's this heavy content about my grief in real time over those 18 months, but I feel like it's balanced so well with the images of our family. There's pictures that appear throughout some of the sketches that Max did while he was alive, you know, these illustrations of a bird. I just feel like it's an accessible book because it's not just, you know, this awful story of the death of my son. Yeah. It I feel like it's balanced with so much beauty, and I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

That's amazing. I've seen the birds. I remember what you're talking about a while back. I was looking at your book and seeing that, and it really is so just touching. And I again, I know you didn't even like go out to like make this book or have even the illustrator like do the birds that way, but like what beautiful synchronicity and like just this download for each of you to do it in the way that you did. Like, I do not feel like that's a coincidence. I feel like this book was like really supposed to be in the world in this way, so that's incredible. So, everyone, please go check it out. That will all be linked in the show notes as well, and where to find you and connect with you and all the good things. But Aaron, this was such a pleasure. I'm so glad we were finally able to get to do this. And just thank you. Thank you for your vulnerability, sharing Max with us. He's incredible. Not was, he is still so incredible. And I know he's seeing everything you're doing and probably just loving it. And I just, yeah, those those continued bonds. I believe in them deeply. And I'd like to think he kind of made his way into this book too. So that's amazing. So thank you so much.