222. Divorce, Disenfranchised Grief, and Finding Yourself Again with Jess Prudhomme

Have you ever grieved someone who's still alive? Or lost yourself so completely inside a relationship that when it ended, you didn't even know who you were anymore?

In this episode, I'm sitting down with the incredible Jess Prudhomme—podcaster and host of The Great Detour—to talk about one of the most misunderstood forms of grief out there: divorce grief and identity loss.

Jess married her high school sweetheart at 17. By 35, her marriage was over—and so was the version of herself she'd built around it. What followed was a deeply honest reckoning with grief, self-worth, and what it actually means to come home to yourself.

In this episode, we get into:
✨ What disenfranchised grief is and why divorce grief is so often dismissed
✨ Grieving a living person , and the unique pain of losing someone who's still here
✨ Losing your identity, your future plans, and the life you thought you'd have
✨ How therapy, journaling, and solitude became part of Jess's healing
✨ Leaving a 10-year career to take a sabbatical and rebuild from the inside out
✨ Solo travel as a tool for healing
✨ How a trip abroad sparked the creation of The Great Detour podcast
✨ Finding alignment in friendships, career, and self after major loss
✨ Why the losses that break us open can also bring us home to ourselves

Whether you're navigating a divorce, the end of a relationship, a career loss, or any kind of identity shift, this episode is going to make you feel deeply seen.

🔗 www.thegreatdetour.com
🔗 https://www.instagram.com/thegreatdetour/

Learn more about Letters of Light 💌✨ https://lossesbecomegains.com/letters

Transcript

Ambiguous grief

SPEAKER_03 0:00

When you go through a divorce or when you go through an identity shift, it's like you don't get time off for that. People don't know what to say to that. And it's just it's a very tricky type of grief to navigate. So I really appreciate you like creating space for that because at the end of the day, loss is loss and grief is grief. And grief does not discriminate by circumstance or anything like that. So I think it's so important to honor it and hold space for all different types of grief.

Welcoming Jess to Life With Grief

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Welcome to the Life with Grief podcast. I'm your host, grief and soul purpose coach and fellow griever Tara Accardo.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Jess, welcome to the Life with Grief podcast. I'm so looking forward to this conversation today. Really just to have a conversation with you because I had the absolute pleasure of meeting you in New York. What was that? Maybe like as of the time of this recording, like maybe a month or so ago-ish. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Um, you know, had known parts of your stories familiar with you, thanks to social media, but meeting you in person was such a joy. There were aspects of your story that I didn't know, and that's why I was like, girl, gotta have you on. Like, we need to talk about this. We gotta dig in. But you also have a podcast, fellow podcaster, The Great Detour, which I definitely want to get to and how that all came about, as I'm sure stemmed from a lot of what you've been through. So I won't give uh give it all away. But first, welcome. Glad to have you.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Thank you so much. That was such a warm welcome and introduction. And I agree, it was so wonderful meeting you. It was kind of serendipitous. And I don't believe in accidents. Yeah. And I believe that people come through your life for a reason. So it was just so nice to like celebrate you and your chapter in Resilient AF. And it was just such a great evening and just great energy with kindred spirits. So I loved it. And thank you so much too for creating the opportunity to talk about this on your show. And first of all, after that event, I posted a picture on Instagram and one of my and I tagged you, and one of my friends was like, oh my gosh, I listened to her podcast. And I was like, it's such a small world. It's such a small world, but you, you know, you're having an impact on people's lives because she recently lost her husband like six months ago and is just navigating life as a widow now. And she really like listens to your podcast, and it has an impact on her life. So just so you know how far reaching your impact is, like you are not being about to cry. You are absolutely touching people's lives. You're doing amazing things. And I just want to say thank you too for creating space for these types of conversations because I don't always think that there is a space to honor this type of grief, this ambiguous, disenfranchised grief. A lot of times it's very easy to acknowledge when somebody has passed away and there's space for that, and there's time off and bereavement uh time for that. And people kind of know how to navigate that a little bit and what to say. But then when you go through a divorce or when you go through an identity shift, it's like you don't get time off for that. People don't know what to say to that. And it's just it's a very tricky type of grief to navigate. So I really appreciate you like creating space for that because at the end of the day, loss is loss and grief is grief, and grief does not discriminate by circumstance or anything like that. So I think it's so important to honor it and hold space for all different types of grief. So I appreciate that so much.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

A million percent. Oh my god, you said that beautifully. That is, I mean, that's why this podcast is called Life with Grief, right? Because there are so many types of grief and loss. And I just want to mention, I mean, the title of this episode will give it away. Hi, divorce, been through divorce, which I'm gonna let you explain in a second. But also, I mean, again, whether this is maybe like where I want people to also think of this today, even if you because right, I haven't been through a divorce, but like friendship losses, breakups, maybe it is a divorce, maybe it's a divorce that stemmed from the loss of a loved one or a child or something, you know. I see and hear that a lot where like some relationships don't survive those things, right? Like the the why behind it and why it happened might come from wherever, but to your point, loss is loss. And and I do want to acknowledge that. And you also made a great point. And it's like, yes, we're a bit of a grief illiterate society. We still have a long way to go to acknowledge like really any type of loss, but I agree with you, right? There's a little bit more of some guardrails, I guess, put in place for the loss of a loved one, right? Like that's the loss. But like to to navigate the ending and that you had a very long relationship, which again, I want to let you get to in a second, but like that completely and utterly changes the direction of your life, just like the loss of a loved one was, right? On on paper. So it is worth talking about. It's very important to talk about. And that's just ultimately what this podcast is about, right? How do we navigate that? Where do what do we do? So that all being said, take us through it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

So

Divorce as Identity Loss

SPEAKER_03 4:56

yeah, I never pictured myself hosting a podcast about life not going according to plan and detours because I was always the girl that had the plan. I was your quintessential type A, overachieving, had a lot of like liked to have control in my life, liked structure, and just knew what to expect. And I think that came from I had a pretty chaotic childhood. And a lot of times when that happens, you develop coping mechanisms and compens compensatory measures. And for me, that was overachieving. It was perfectionism, it was people pleasing, it was control. And that made me feel good and it made me feel safe. So I just spent a life achieving and I was really good at it. You know, I got straight A's in school, I ended up being salutatorial in my class in high school, went to a good college, got the corporate gig, and married my high school sweetheart. So we started dating when I was 17, and it was like this fairy tale romance, and that's what everybody thought on the outside. And I really thought I had my life all mapped out and just like check, check, check, had the plan, was going according to plan. And then all of a sudden, when I was 35, my marriage came undone. And a 17-year relationship, something that I had invested my whole life into and planned my whole future around, was suddenly gone. And I was just left feeling completely untethered and just left with the question of, oh my God, who am I? Because when you're with somebody from the time you're 17 to 35, those are really formative years, you know, and you're not you're not an I at that point. You're just a we. So that's all I knew like growing up. Half it was actually half of my life up until that point. I'd say. So all of a sudden, I'm alone and I'm like, oh my God, like what do I do and how do I navigate this? And there is a lot of grief. It's a very unique grief that comes with it because you're mourning, you know, you're mourning somebody who's still alive. So that's that's a whole weird thing. But then you're also mourning this identity. Like, I loved being a wife. It was something I always like like longed for, even when we were dating, like I couldn't wait to get married, and I couldn't wait to be a wife and build a home and start a family, and all of a sudden, all those things are gone. And you have to sit with that. And it's a reckoning of sorts, and it was incredibly disorienting. But it's odd to say this, but I also view my divorce as my greatest gift because it brought me home to myself in a way that I never knew I needed. Because I was such a we for all those years, I was so detached from myself. And as I mentioned, I didn't know who I was. I remember asking myself that question, like, who am I now? And I didn't know what the answer was. But it was also a beautiful thing because it set me off on this journey of self-reclamation to really discover, okay, who am I? Who am I without a husband? Who am I when I'm alone? And it was hard and messy and beautiful, but it really did bring me home to myself and helped me create a home within myself and not with somebody else. And that was the first time I've ever really done that. And so now I think when I choose or when I enter partnership again, I'm gonna be entering it from such a more grounded place where I'm choosing someone out of love, but also I'm so firm and good in myself. It's not gonna be because I'm lonely, it's not gonna be because I just want to get married, it's gonna be because I choose you, not because I necessarily need you, but because you enhance my life, you make my life better. But my life is really good and rich as it is on its own. So I just said a whole mouthful there. So I'll pause for a second.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

I love this. I love this whole like, I don't need you, I want you energy.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Like because it was, you know why? I was so different back then. It was like, I think, you know, coming from the childhood I did, I really just wanted to be loved. And so what did I do? I married the first guy I dated. And I remember over the years, like a certain family members saying to me, like, you're sure you don't want to date a little bit more? And just like see what else is up. Not that they didn't like him, but it was like, you know, you've only had this one experience. You don't know what you like. There might be something else or somebody else. And I was so adamant, like I couldn't, the idea of being alone at that point felt like death. I just didn't know how to be by myself. And it was very daunting in the beginning. I remember I called one of my best friends from college, and I said to her, because she was single, and I was like, How the hell do you be single? It's like you do I don't know how to do this. This is crazy. And she said, just you know, start by making a list. Make a list of all the things that you've ever wanted to try or were curious about and just start doing them and see what lights you up. And see, and yeah, it was great advice. So I did that, and I I took some solo trips abroad to Europe and I joined a kickball team and I just like expanded my friend network. I dated also for the first time ever at 35, which is like a whole episode on its own. But I kind of just have to dig into it. Right. Yeah, we totally will. But yeah, I just went out and explored. And, you know, looking back on, and I still am in that chapter in in so many ways of like, I think we're all constantly growing and evolving and discovering ourselves. But I look back on that version of myself who was just like like a baby deer on like wobbly legs and didn't know what she was doing, but like it was such a beautiful time of growth and self-discovery. And I just feel so grateful that I got to have that because I never really got that in my 20s. I never got that time of exploration and really like I don't know, coming into my own, my own becoming. And it really allowed that to happen. So out of that horrible thing that I never would have chosen and would never want to live through again, beauty came from it. And so I think that's really what inspired me to create my podcast because I realized, you know, the more I talked about my story, everybody has a detour. Like there is somebody, like everybody's lives has some part of it that didn't go according to plan. And I just met so many people who made purpose from that and used like created power from that. And I just found it so inspiring. And I just think it's so important for us to talk about that because when you're going through loss, when you're going through grief, whatever type of grief that might be, it can be really isolating. And you can feel like you're the only. I remember feeling that way because at the time, you know, I was on the younger side, 35. None of my friends had gone through this. I didn't know anybody else, like in my age bracket who was going through divorce, and I just felt very alone. So I actually like turned to podcasts and like I would hear other people's stories of heartbreak and divorce, and it just made me feel seen and held. And I just, yeah, I wanted to do that for other people and not just with divorce, too. Just like any type of a griefer life, uh piece of their life not going according to plan. And I just think the more that we talk about it and the more that we normalize it, it just makes it okay for others to live in their truth as well and not feel ashamed about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah. Oh my god, I can so tell you're a podcaster. Like, uh, you just to take all the words from my mouth, please. Like, I was like in my head, I was like, girl, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. God, this is exactly why I was so excited to have this conversation with you. Because yeah, like, sure, we could we can focus on the divorce itself all day long, but like this is the life with grief part that I like to get into because and it is the purpose and the what's next. Like, we we can't change our circumstances, right? Loved one died, but can't bring them back. Divorce is is final, right? Okay, I'm not I'm not gonna sit here and try and convince someone to love me, right? Like I, you know, as so many of us sometimes want to do. And it's like okay, these are my circumstances. I am right, wouldn't have chosen this for myself. I'm not particularly happy about it at the time, right? Perhaps, but but I'm here, I'm still here, I still have a white a life that could be vibrant and worth living, and I ain't dead yet. So, like, let me make something of this and and and how do we do that? And that's exactly why I'm so excited to talk to you, and like, because I know you're gonna, you're already inspiring us, obviously, with this conversation. But like, the more we dig in,

Early Days Survival Tools After Divorce

SPEAKER_01 13:10

let me ask you though, just to take it back to not to make you relive this, but in the early days, right after the divorce, because I don't we don't need to get into the weights of the divorce itself, but for anyone here who who is going through a divorce, who is going through a separation, whatever, right? And or just a loss of some kind, and they're like, I'm in the midst of it right now, I'm in the messy middle. What do I do? What could help me? Right. Like, I I always want to give people a little some coping tools, right? If you can like take yourself back to that time and again, whether this is like a literal, like a tangible thing that you did or just like a mindset shift or something, it sounds like your friend had some great advice for you. That's a big question, but like, what did you find helpful during that time? Like, for lack of a better term, what sort of got you through that, so to speak?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

You know?

SPEAKER_03 14:04

It's so weird to reflect on it, and I'm sure you feel the same way about your losses. Isn't it just like such a different version of yourself? Yes, yeah, right. You look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, I never want to feel that way again. And it's weird. Grief, as you know, it comes up and you get hit by weaves even years later, but it's never as acute as it is in those early days where you just feel like a shell of yourself. And I'm just remembering the moment where you just feel bereft. It almost felt like I lost a limb. I'd never experienced heartbreak before. So I was 35. All my friends had gone through it, I'd seen it on movies and TV, heard about it in love songs, but I never actually felt it. And then all of a sudden, it washed over me, and I was like, oh, this is what they're crying about, and all those love songs and those RB songs. And oh my God, I get it now. But I remember like right after it happened, I was trying to be normal and like live a normal life. So I went out, it was like a Saturday afternoon, it was a beautiful day. I went out with my best friend and her brother and sister, sister-in-law to a brewery, and we were just sitting outside. And normally I would love this type of thing. Um, but I just remember like having to force small talk, and it just felt like I wanted to crawl out of my skin. And I'm just like, all right, I'm out and I'm just around people, I need to take care of myself. And then towards the end, when we were like leaving to go into my friend's car, I like barely made it inside the passenger side door, and I just like put my head and my hands on her dashboard and I just wept. But one of those like guttural cries, you know those, where it's like you're a full-body cry. And I remember just, I'll never forget that moment because I don't think ever think I cried like that. And she was great. She just held my hand and she looked at me and she was like, I know you're not gonna believe me right now, but you're not gonna feel like this forever. And I did not believe her because I was like, I'm dying. This is it was physical. Like you can feel, you can feel it in your body. Um, but she was right. And I just remember holding on to that whenever I was in those moments. I was like, okay, I'm not gonna feel like this forever. And I still do that today. Whenever I'm going through a hard time, I remind myself that everything's temporary. Life is ephemeral, nothing lasts forever. So the hard times, you know, just remember that that they're not gonna last. But also the good times, they're not gonna last either. So enjoy those, savor those because those are fleeting as well. Yeah. But in those early days, you know, it's interesting because with divorce, you know, there's all different types of divorce. Some are sudden, some are like a long time coming. Mine was more of a long time coming. And so I had a lot of anticipatory grief. So I actually did a lot of the grieving while I was still in the marriage. So by the time I got out of it, those first few months were definitely rough and it was very disorienting. I felt untethered. Who am I? But after a few months, I think my soul just kind of wanted to breathe again and to live and laugh. So I ended up just really going for joy like that summer. So I got uh we we left, we broke up in March. And that summer probably you would think it would be the worst summer of my life, but it actually ended up being one of the best summers. I remember I took two trips with my girlfriend. Yeah, I just like I just relaxed and I just let go of the heaviness. And it was finally like I could just, yeah, I just put down the weight. No more couples therapy, no more trying to make it work, no more fights, no more reading all the self-help books. I was finally just like, okay. And it was an exhale. Yeah, there was a relief and like grief, but also relief. And I just did anything that made me feel good. I definitely went to a lot of therapy. I'm a huge therapy gal. I've been going to my therapist for over five years now, and I credit her for so much of my transformation. It's just a beautiful thing to have somebody on a consistent basis be able to hold space for you and just make you feel seen, heard, held, and just holds up a mirror for you to explore your own complicated inner world. And she was just this stabilizing force throughout that. And so that was a huge thing for me. And also, it's just so important with any type of loss or grief to feel it all. And I think that's how I moved through it as quickly as I did. I really felt it all, and it's ugly and a brave thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

That's what people push away and push down because they don't want I get it. It's freaking uncomfortable. Guess what? It hurts.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

That's the point. Yeah, but the only it's so cliche, but it's so true.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

Yeah, the only way out is through. And so I really did feel it all. So by the time I was out, I was like, okay, now I'm ready to feel something different and I want to feel joy. So yeah, I did a lot of therapy. I'm a big journaler, so I was always journaling. And then it ended up going to, and I think this is how I ended up in podcasting, but I ended up doing audio journaling. I don't know if you ever did that, but instead of writing, yeah, and it's kind of easier when you're feeling tired and stuff too. Yeah. So sometimes I just wouldn't have the energy to write. So I would just record myself. And that was very cathartic too, because I remember in the beginning when we first broke up, it was like I really was tempted to call him just out of habit, just out of sourcing comfort. And I knew I couldn't do that. And one of my girlfriends told me, she was like, Well, why don't you record yourself as if you're talking to him, but don't actually call him, you know? And so that's how it started. And it was very cathartic. So I would pick up my phone and put my voice recorder on and say all the things I wanted to say to him and cry and be messy and ugly, and then it was out, you know. I and it was like a way of verbal processing. So that was kind of a form of journaling and catharsis for me as well. And I tell clients to do that.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I'm just like, if journaling feels too painful or it's too much, you just don't feel like writing, whatever. Like I love that because it's again, it's visceral. You hear or hearing your own voice if you listen back, right? Or just listen to the words coming out of your mouth. And you might surprise yourself too. Like, where are there any times where you were just like, Whoa, where did that come from? Or like, oh, interesting, you know, like either whether you listen to it back or just heard it come out of your mouth. Was there any moments where you were like, huh?

SPEAKER_03 20:01

No, 100%. Sometimes I mean, I believe we all have like more wisdom than we give ourselves credit for. Like deep down, like we have so many answers and so much like divine wisdom. And yeah, every once in a while it's almost like I'm channeling and it comes out, and I'm like, where did that come from? And that happens sometimes. And I do this thing too, where if I'm in a moment of clarity or things are going really well, I'll I'll send myself a message to listen to when I'm going through a hard time. Or on the opposite side of that, when I'm going through a hard time, I make a message for myself and I say, Hey, future you, like you're gonna be on the other side of this. And I talk to a future version of myself, and it's so cool to listen to when you're in a different mindset and a different chapter. But it just reminds you that life is always changing and you're never you're never gonna be in that same mindset, in that same emotional space all the time. It's ever changing. So it's a good reminder when you make those recordings and you listen back. It's it's fun. That is so cool.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

I love that. Again, I've kind of like gently suggested that on the podcast and like just to clients and stuff before, but the way that you just framed that and like kind of took it a step further, I and like the future self to yes, like I kind of want to try that myself. Like that's so it's like those Instagram reels.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

Have you seen where it's like the future talking to your future you? Have you seen those? Yeah, those are all I wanted to do one, but I'm like, I don't know how to do it. It's like you gotta script that whole thing out. I'm like, this is too much work. But I love that technically speaking, this is a lot concept. Yeah, because like uh a lot of my podcast is really just about the journey and our journey in our detours, and like we didn't expect these things, but they catalyze such incredible growth, and it's just all these different versions of ourselves. And I love every version of me that existed, but then you have to like outgrow those versions so that you can have the greater capacity to hold the new version of yourself, and there's grief in letting go of those old versions of you too. But like I think like that's that's what life is about. I was in my past, I was so focused on. The destination on getting the promotion or like buying the house, the marriage, all of those things. And now I think I was like missing the point. I think the point is like where we are right now, like the present, like the growth, like being mindful and just being completely tapped into the moment that we're actually in. Like, I think that's what it's all about. I was missing the plot the whole time. So that's kind of where where I am in my life now. And it's such a change from the way I used to function, but it's also just so liberating at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah. Oh my god, I can feel it. Like as you're talking. And then like I've been through that transformation myself too. So it's like cool to reflect on. And okay, so one thing I definitely want to get into this is actually a perfect segue that I definitely want to tap into is the years that followed, you you made a decision to take a pause on your career. Like, we let's let's talk about the career stuff for a second. And also, I I know you mentioned kind of like this overachiever like identity and like that sort of thing that you had. So can you like just talk to us about that? I kind of want to just open it up to you first or whatever you want to touch on there in terms of you don't have to go into detail about like what the career was unless you want to, more just because I think there's a lot of people too, actually, and I think this is a good time to identify this, like that with this loss, whatever loss A, loss B is, that you know, our our career, our job, what we do for fun, like all those things, right, come into play and into our, you know, mirrors being held up. And it's like, okay, what what really lights me up? What really makes me happy? And then I think we change a lot after loss and we realize things might feel a bit misaligned. Career could be one of those things. So for anyone here who's maybe going through that or feeling a little pulled towards something different or whatever, and also just feeling just like a very different version of themselves than they've maybe been conditioned to be, or how they quote unquote always were. Yeah, talk to us about that. And like, what would you say to that person right now, too?

unknown 24:07

Yeah.

Pain as Portal to Alignment

SPEAKER_03 24:08

You know, I think pain is such, and I you totally get it. I like I was watching you as you were talking. I'm like, oh, she she gets it. Cause when you have tremendous loss, that pain becomes a portal. And I do it changes you dramatically. And for me, you know, my divorce, I feel like it was like the gateway drug to alignment. It was like the first step. But it's just once you go through a big loss like that, yeah, it's like sometimes it's just the first step in coming home to yourself. And this is what I talk about a lot on my show is just these things that we hate, these detours that we try to avoid, they happen, but they kind of shake us awake and hold up a mirror to the ways that we've been living and maybe not living in our own truth, but living in a way that we thought we were supposed to live, that we were brought up believing or socialized into. And it shakes you to your core so much that you have to stop and truly look at yourself and say, is this actually who I am? And is this actually what I want? Because it, I don't know, it just brings you to such a rock bottom. But I believe that that rock bottom is a firm foundation to build a new life upon, and you can build whatever you want on that. So that's what it was for me. My divorce was first, and that really brought me to my knees. And it was a reckoning and it was humbling, but it really just shook me awake and started, as I mentioned, bringing me home to myself. But it was the beginning. And then I just started getting little glimmers of like, who am I and what do I like and what do I not like, and what do I want to do with my life? And it's it manifested in many different ways. You know, uh part of my journey is, you know, as I mentioned before, like sourcing love and safety externally. So I did that with my marriage, but I also did it with friendships too. And when you grow up that way and you grow up as a people pleaser, I one thing that became um clear to me, you know, through my journey after divorce is like a lot of my friendships were very one-sided. And I was just keeping people around to feel like I had people and to make myself feel safe. And I was one of those people where I just like to have a lot of people around me a lot of the time. And now actually, like I have a much smaller circle. And it's not that there's anything wrong with that the people who were in my life, but I just realized like my energy is precious. Um, and like I think when you're being really truthful and true to who you are, like you're not gonna appeal to everybody, you're gonna appeal to people who are aligned with you. So I saw friendships fall away, relationships fall away, and that was hard. But now I look back on it and I'm like, oh, that was just alignment. That was me stepping into my truth and my authenticity and the relationships and the world around me adjusting to that. But it was that was uncomfortable at first.

Navigating a Career Break and Worthiness

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

And then the job thing, oh girl, that was a whole I did not expect that, but it was kind of it reminds me a lot of my divorce. It was, I was in my career, I worked in financial services, and I was in my job for 10 years. And for a long time it was, it was great and it was very much aligned for me. But over the past few years, you know, you just start to get that nudge like, I don't really like this anymore. And this doesn't bring me joy anymore. And like, oh, what am I doing here? And then you wake up in the mornings and you're kind of dreading going into work. And so that was starting to happen.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

And I'm like, all right, well, maybe I can just suck it up. But then layoffs happened and I wasn't laid off, and some people I knew got laid off, and I was envious, and I was like, okay, like I need to take a hard look to myself. Yeah, I need to take a hard look at myself and think, is this what I want for the rest of my life to be in a job that is unfulfilling for me? And there's nothing wrong with the job, it just no longer fit who I'd become.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

And so I did a crazy thing and I quit with nothing lined up, which is bananas. And I do not recommend it. I'm not like out here advocating just to like quit your job with nothing lined up.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

It's like no parachute.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

But I will say, I'm big on intuition, I'm big on following your gut. This is something I've been feeling for some time, not just to like quit this job, but to take a break, to almost take a sabbatical. And, you know, this is the one time in my life I think where I could do this. I've saved up and worked my ass off my whole life. I don't have a husband, I don't have children. If I were to ever take this risk and gamble on myself, now's the time. And I just kept feeling this pull to just stop. Take yourself out of the game. You've been grinding your whole life, you've been through a lot of hard things the last few years. Like, just stop. And it didn't really make sense to me, but that's to me, that's the way intuition works. It doesn't always make sense.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

It's just like do this and you just not explain herself always. It just like is, and it's this gnawing that you just cannot ignore. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

And I think it knocks and knocks and knocks, and then it just smacks you over the head at a certain point if you don't listen to it. So I actually decided to listen to it. Or I feel like if I didn't, maybe I would have gotten laid off down the road, but I did, so I quit. And it's been a wild ride. I'd love to tell you that in the beginning that I handled it really gracefully and was like, oh, this is I chose this and it's great. No, I fought it with all my might. I like continued to force myself to be productive and just like throwing myself into anything and everything because I didn't know how to just sit still. That was part of the problem. And there was a tremendous amount of grief along with that. And I don't think I really honored it enough in the beginning. And finally, like a few months in, I just allowed myself to really feel it because this is another pillar of our identities. Marriage was one, but people, myself included, oftentimes attach their identity to their identity to their career so much. So all of a sudden, I'm stripped of my relationship, then I'm stripped of my career, and it's just it's sobering. And it really forces you to like be like, am I okay with myself when I don't have these external pillars to attach myself to? Am I okay with my essence? Do I still feel worthy, valuable, lovable without these things? And initially I didn't, and I think a lot of us don't, and that was really, really hard to work through. But I think it was something I needed to, and I think it was almost like the universe's way of being like, you need to sit with yourself. And during that time, it was interesting. A lot of other grief came up, like old grief, maybe from my marriage, maybe from childhood, like different things that I thought I dealt with, but I think they were waiting to be felt. And I wasn't still enough to feel them before. There is like a lot of power in stillness and the quiet. And I know it's hard. Like people have families, and like not everybody has like the luxury of being able to pause their career. Um, but I think it's so important when you can to find that stillness because in it, there's not just space to feel, but I feel like there's answers. It's where you can hear your your intuition, it's where you can tap in. And it's interesting because even though on the outside right now it looks like not much has changed in my life. I'm still single, I'm still unemployed, but I feel like a completely different person than I was last year. I feel like the way I move through the world, uh, the way I, I don't know, the way I approach things, the way I view myself is just more honest, more truthful, more grounded, less anxious. I feel like my nervous system just chilled the hell out.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Like sure.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

And I know it's not gonna be this calm forever, but I look at it now and I think, okay, I kind of understand why I needed that. And this was like a beautiful chapter. I think I'll always, yeah, I'll always hold in reverence because it's just, it was a gift. It really, it was hard, it was messy, but it was also a lot of beauty in it as well, a lot of alone time as well. But as someone who spent 17 years tethered to somebody else, I needed it. It was like medicine for me.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

God, yeah. Wow. To be at that point in your life and like have this moment of reflection. And you're like, I've never really gotten to explore this. Like, what a gift. And that's like the this is I'm so happy you mentioned all of this because this is truly the message I want to like, one of the messages I want to leave people with today is like getting curious about that. And no, you don't have to make as big of a leap as maybe, you know, quitting your job or changing careers or whatever. And I actually want to come back to what you just mentioned about, you know, the like the stillness and and the solitude and like those things and maybe the solo trips that you went on and things like that. And again, you know, not we we can't all just go hop on a plane and go on a solo trip. Although I wish I very much wish I could. New York was like the closest thing to a solo trip I've had in like a very long time without my husband. I used to be terrified to do that. Now I'm like, I actually prefer to travel by myself. Not gonna lie. Love my family to death. But no, it was great. Uh Tara needed Tara time and genuine. Actually, yeah, we need to touch on the solo trips because I totally have like a whole travel part of myself that I Oh yeah, I forgot about that. You yes, you have the whole travel time. Yes, I love I love travel.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

So yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Yeah, I want to get to that in a second. But what you just said is so powerful and just taking that moment of stillness, whatever you can like get in there and and how imperative that is. So can you just touch on that just like a little bit more? Because I the reason I bring this up is, you know, in addition to the journaling you mentioned, going to therapy, like all these beautiful things that you've done to help you move through that. That's just you know, the deep breaths, like the breath work, whether it's meditation or literally just sitting with yourself, to be able to like hear your thoughts and your opinions on things. And you're like, what do I think about this? What decision would I make here? Huh? Whoa. Like, you know, and I I bring this up because I talk to a lot of grievers. I have clients that that deal with this too. And they're like, it's one of the many, many nuances and aspects of like having to re-get to know ourselves and like that relearning of ourselves, trusting our intuition, trust that we can make a decision for ourselves that is not based on whether it was a partner or anyone else around us. And I think that sitting with ourselves is very underrated. And it's something we definitely need to do. So yeah, is there anything else there? I was just curious that you wanted to touch on in terms of like how that has been impactful for you or ways in which you have done that, like more intentionally, other than leaving a career or, you know, anything that somebody here listening, maybe that's like I still got my stupid nine to five, can maybe do on like a daily basis to, you know, give themselves that time.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

I feel like it's you can do it however you want to do it. It's just finding time and space to be alone with yourself. It could be a coffee walk on a Saturday morning, it could be taking yourself out on a date. That was something I was always afraid to do in the beginning. Cause I'm like, oh, like what if somebody I know sees me?

SPEAKER_01 34:59

I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

I'm in restaurants by myself. I'm like, what do I do with myself? It's so funny. I have no problem doing it abroad, but locally I do because I'm like, somebody I know is gonna see me. But I just bring a book. And honestly, I feel like people look at you and they're like, oh, she's a badass. Like, she's just like and I always get free stuff. I think I don't know if they feel sorry for me or they think I'm cool, but I always get like free dessert or things. Like they're nice to you when you did the weed stuff, is always nice to you. But for me, like the result of taking more intentional time alone is like, I feel like my intuition has gotten so much stronger.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Because before it's just like when you have all this static around you, or when you're constantly outsourcing to other people, what do you think? And asking for other people's opinions. Not that that's bad, but at the end of the day, only you know what's right for you. Everybody's yourself, yeah. Everybody's coming from their own frameworks, their own family backgrounds, their own experiences. You have to be true to yourself. And that was something in my alone time that I started like you were talking about, getting better at where I was like, what do I want? Even just simple things like what do I feel like eating for dinner? Like, what do I crave? Because I there were times in my life where I could not answer simple questions like that. I was so detached. And I think this is common for women. We're so we're socialized to take care of others, we're nurturers, but especially for wives, like what does our husband need? What do our children want? But we become so disconnected from ourselves and our truth. And it shows up in simple ways like you don't know what to eat and things like that. But it has a ripple effect in your life and a huge, a larger impact and like bigger decisions in your decision-making process. So it was just, yeah, just feeling into like, what do I feel like doing today? And then it's like, oh, maybe I want to go to a farmer's market and I'll go to a freedom to do whatever I want. Yeah. And just also taking away, it was kind of like recreating the narrative in my head. I think years ago, I would have thought it was pathetic and I would have thought, oh, I'm a loser, or like there's something wrong with me because I'm not surrounded by people all the time. But now there's been this mindset shift where I'm like, this is empowering as hell. And like somebody who can spend a weekend alone, a trip alone, like that's incredible. And I hope to like when I do like meet somebody and enter partnership again, I hope that the partner I meet is secure enough in himself that he can do that too. And I think it's sexy as hell, but it was just it was a big mindset shift, you know? And because before it was like this fear, but I think that's the thing with fear. You just have to push past it, and then eventually you get to a place where you're like, oh, that actually isn't that scary after all. And then this the shift happens, and that's what happened to me. And now I'm just much more selective about where I expend energy, who I spend my time with. And the time is so beautiful when I spend it, but it's because I I genuinely want to connect with those people. It's intentional. Yeah, I think before it was like I would just spend time with anyone and everyone because I just couldn't spend time with myself. That's really sad when you talk about it, when you think about it, but it's just where I was at that point. It is, it really is. But there's nothing wrong with being alone. There's nothing wrong with being single and spending time to your with yourself. It's a beautiful opportunity to get to know yourself. And I realize that because I I view this time as a gift because I know it's I don't know, I just have intuitively, I know, like I'm gonna find somebody, like it's not gonna be this chapter forever. And so I'm like, how beautiful is this that I get this. Relish in it. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna have a man around in this house at some point. So I'm like, let me enjoy this. I know. Like, I don't know how I can ever live with a man again after this. This is wonderful. But I'm like, you know, I'm gonna treasure this time. I think one day I'm gonna look back and be like, oh my god, those single years, like those were beautiful. So I'm trying just to savor it. I don't know when they'll end, I don't know how long I'll have them, but I'm just trying to make the most of it because it is a really beautiful time.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Yeah. Okay,

Releasing Control in Grief

SPEAKER_01 38:52

before we I have to touch on the solo travel. I just have to. Oh, yes. But you just said something so powerful there or like alluded to something so powerful, and just this essence of like releasing. And can we just touch on that for a second? Because what a beautiful mindset you have around all of this, first of all. But again, message number two for everyone today is that because I I talk about this as well. And you know, I want to be cautious with like kind of how I'm saying this in terms of like who is listening, what type of loss they've been through, where they are in their grief journey, okay, earlier earlier on people. This may or may not be for you right now. But like, let's say we're we're talking to somebody here who's maybe a little bit further along or is in a place where they're like, okay, grief is like kind of managed, kind of being handled, but I feel like there's still some things that I need to just however you want to say it, kind of chalk up to the universe and be like, I I just I gotta release this. I I need to unburden myself. Kind of what you were talking about earlier in terms of like the those earlier days, and you were just like, it felt like relief to me, right? Because I think whether or not you were doing it at the time, I feel like you you you released, right? And you just were like, like, let go and let live, you know, so to speak. And what a gift to give yourself. Like, first of all, how compassionate like what grace you are giving yourself in that moment, what relief, well-deserved relief to let yourself just be like, just what you said was so powerful. I I know it's gonna happen. I don't know when, I don't know who, I don't know what it's gonna look like, I don't know the time frame. And I bring that up because like I know so many people get stuck there. And that that freaks people out. And they because I don't, as humans, we kind of want some closure, right? We want to know what's gonna happen next. And like for some of us, some some of us like surprises, some of us not so much, right? So, like, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on that or just any word of wisdom for someone here who's maybe listening that's struggling with that release? Cause I I I see that a lot, and it rightfully so. I get it. It's it's uncomfy. And especially when there is a lack of control with loss and what has happened, and you know, like what you were saying, right? You're like there's a sense of safety with that. But any thoughts on that? Because like it's it's I it's so important, and I don't think that part is talked enough about sometimes too.

Finding Joy After Rock Bottom

SPEAKER_03 41:16

It is really important, and it looks like you said, it looks different for everybody. But I do believe joy and grief can coexist, and they should coexist. You cannot sit in the sock all the time. If you do that, you're just gonna be consumed with depression. And there's a time and a place for those days where you just can't get out of bed or those days that you can't just show up. So I don't want to diminish that. I've certainly had those days, and I still have them from time to time. But allow yourself the grace to put that to the side and compartmentalize it and still be a human. Being a human is complex, there's so many aspects to it, but you can be grieving and still go out and explore and have moments of joy. And I don't know if you you've felt this, you probably have, but the joy I have experienced since loss has been like nothing I've ever experienced before. It's just, I think when you know what it's like to lose something or like go to your rock bottom, when you experience joy again, it's just like a light, like nothing else. It's just all consuming.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

It hits different.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

It's different. And allow yourself that. And you know, it'll come in time. But I feel like maybe people feel guilty to experience joy or to have fun when something tragic happens or they had experience some type of great loss. But I think it's just part of the journey. It's just getting up and moving forward and allowing yourself. And I think the more you give yourself that grace and the more that you allow yourself to have those types of experiences, it's it's healing. It's like medicine. It really, really is. And I think, I think it's so, so critical.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Yeah, it is definitely. You know, it's so this is like the dumbest example I've probably ever used in my life. Okay. And people are gonna laugh at me about this. But like when you were just saying the joy, it's like it, it just it hits different, right? It's like there's something extra to it. It almost reminds me of like, you know, in Twilight when Edward is like comes out into the light and he's like super sparkly and whatever, and she and like, or when Bella is like whatever, changes to a vampire, and she like sees all the like little microscopic things and is like, you know, hyper aware of things now. I almost feel like, again, such a silly example, but I almost like that's almost how it feels for me sometimes, where I'm so much more hyper aware of things because when you hit rock bottom, when you know loss, when you know like things have been like can be and have been taken away from you, you you treasure those things so much more. And it it like life perhaps isn't as like muted as it used to be. Those little things come out, it does feel a little more sparkly, you know. But it's It's a process to get there. I'm definitely not, you know, again, for those who are a little bit earlier on and like, Tara, what is this nonsense you were spewing right now? Like, it took me a while to get to that point of seeing life in a in that lens. But I feel like once you do, you kind of can't go back. And that's what I love about this conversation because I feel like that's where you've gotten yourself to. And it's like you've allowed yourself to be open and have these experiences and travel and do all these incredible things where it's like, I don't even want to go back to that version of myself now. Like, yes, okay, if it's the loss of a loved one, sure, we're always gonna wish they were here. It'd be so nice to have this version of ourselves with maybe with those people, right? But then maybe there's also some people in our life that it's just like we have to just lovingly release them because maybe they were meant to be here for a reason or a season or you know, what's that expression? But but maybe not not permanently, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

But I love what you just said about like I think you said it life being more in color. I notice that now I'm more present and I notice things more. And maybe it's just from meditation or mindfulness, but like I'll stop and if I hear birds singing, I'll like I'll stop and listen. Yeah. Whereas years ago, I think I would just walk right by and not hear it. The other day I heard church bells and I just stopped and I was like, oh, that's beautiful. And just noticing sounds and sights and nature, and I've just slowed down in a way that allows me to appreciate the life I'm in now more than I ever have before. And I actually I catch myself doing that. I'm like, oh my god, this is I never used to do this. This is interesting. And I think it's a product of going through hard things. You just see beauty in the everyday life more than you used to. And I think that that's a great thing. But for anybody who's going through major loss right now, I just like, oh, my heart goes out to you. It really, it really does because I know what it's like. I think back to that moment in the car where I was just, I just felt like I lost part of me. And I thought I would never climb out of that. I just remember that feeling, like, oh my God, I'm never gonna feel any other way, but the way I'm feeling right now. But I just want to tell you that you will, you will feel differently. And it's not always the grief will come up throughout your life. You, it never really goes away. You integrate it, it becomes part of you, but it becomes part of you in a different way. And you will smile again, you will laugh again, you will build again. So just hold on to hope. And even if you're like just this is bullshit, that's fine. That's what I thought when my friend said that to me. Anyway, but just hold on to it like you are not gonna be where you are right now forever.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Yeah, you said that earlier, right? Like it's just you're telling yourself, like, this is temporary. This is temporary. The joy is temporary, but guess what? This anguish is temporary too. And I know it doesn't always feel that way, but yeah, but it is okay.

Solo Travel as Healing

SPEAKER_01 46:50

You have to humor me. As we start to wrap up, where did you go on your solo trips? I must know. Yeah. First of all, again, for anyone here listening who does not know, uh, I have a second podcast called Taste Toast Travel with my husband, and that's the whole point. We love food and drink and travel. And my my adoration of travel and and how that has changed my life came from solo trips. Genuinely, my first time ever out of the US was when I was 19 and I studied abroad. That was also wild to think about. Like, okay, you've never been out of the country, but you went abroad for three months. Like, what were you thinking? Anyway, not even just testing it out, like, let me just go. But it absolutely changed my life. And there were experiences in that trip and subsequent trips as well, where it just shows you what you're made of. And so, message also for everyone here today, before I let you uh explain to us your amazing trips, you don't have to go like on some crazy trip to Europe or wherever, right? It can be, we talk about this on the podcast with other guests, like it can be a town or two away, right? You don't have to throw hundreds or thousands of dollars at a trip. But the point is like what you've said multiple times today, that I every time you say it, it makes me smile and it lights me up. It's just that coming home to ourselves because it's so true. And it I think for me, that's also opened up something that like home for me. This is talk about cliche, is where my loved ones are. It's where my family is. And I'm just, I feel actually a little less tethered to certain places that I used to. I don't know, or I actually feel more drawn to the East Coast where I was like born and raised. I think because my family's there, my parents were that right. That's where I have happy, healthy memories, certain parts of Europe for sure. But it has just personally expanded my life in so many ways. And I know that to be the truth for many people. So talk to us really quickly about that. Where did you go? What did you do? What did you learn?

unknown 48:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:45

I want to hear travel is so healing too. You asked me like what I use for like healing modalities. Travel. If you can travel, travel. There's always such, I don't know, it just like clears my head and it's always such a great reset. And whenever I come back, that's when I like I'm my most creative and do amazing. Like I started the podcast when I came back from a trip to Italy. So it's just like motivated, inspired. But travel for me has been huge. So my first, you know, and you I love that you studied abroad. This is something I wish I did. I never did because I was so codependent and I was in a relationship. I was dating my ex-husband. We went to two different colleges, but I the thought of leaving him and going off and doing my own thing, inconceivable. Inconceivable. So that's because I just wasn't connected to myself. And now I look and I'm like, oh girl, you should have gone to Europe. But I did it later. I lived, I got my period of my life later. So yeah, I did it. I got divorced in 2021. So my first ever solo trip was 2022. I went to Croatia, and I went on one of those group travel trips. So I went by myself, but you go, you meet the group and you tour. That's a nice balance to like oh, it's perfect. It's not and yeah, it's called the company too, it's called For the Love of Travel. They're amazing. It's for people ages 25 to 39. So it's all in your age bracket, young professionals. And that trip, I actually kind of credit to getting me into podcasting. It's so funny how the universe works. I met one of my best friends. We we talk every day. She's like one of to this day, one of my best friends. But I go on that trip, and prior to that trip, I kept getting, I don't know if this happened to you, but I kept getting the nudge like you could be a podcaster because I would listen to a million, do my voice memos and like this intuitive nudge that you can do. And I just would short circuit it. I'm like, no way. I don't know the first thing about sound production or any of this shit. So I can't do this. And I just didn't even give it any air time, which is what I do. So now I'm getting better at that. But so then I go on, I was supposed to go to uh Barcelona in the south of France, actually. So I had that trip booked, and then my dad got like talking about another detour, almost a year of the day after my divorce. My dad got really, really sick, and he was hospitalized for like four months, and it was probably one of the darkest periods of my life. He went into delirium, so I had to take on his whole life, all his responsibilities, bills, all it was bananas. He's he's home now, stable, but navigating life on dialysis. So that's a whole other part of grief. So anyway, I had to, I had this trip booked, and it meant so much to me because I'm like, oh, this is my first trip after my divorce. And I, you know, it represented going off on my own, and then I had to cancel it. And I was like, oh my god, does anything work out for me? However, I was just like, I was so done. I was like, I'm not coming. I told the universe, I'm like, I'm not coming back next time. This is my last round, I'm out after this. But then, you know, he stabilized, he came home, and it was in a place where I was like, okay, I can take this trip again.

unknown 51:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

And for some reason, something in my head was like, go somewhere else. And I was like, that's weird. But I listened to it. So I look on their their website and I saw Croatia, and I was like, Oh, that looks beautiful. All right, cool. Croatia, it is. So I go, it was probably one of the best trips of my life. Like an amazing group of people. We all got along with the food, the sights. It was just amazing. Like thinking back now, I can kind of feel it. And I'm like, oh my God, it was amazing. But on that trip, I met one of my best friends, and she was starting a podcast. Her name's Beatrice Rosu. She has a podcast called Let's Talk Relationships. And at the time she was just getting it started. And when I got home, she asked me, she was like, Would you come on and talk about your divorce story? And that time I actually listened. I was like, hell yeah, I'll do that. So I came on, and as soon as I did it, I was like, Oh, like that was cathartic. I was like, Yeah, I think I'm meant to do this. Like, I think there's something here. And so she had me on a couple more times. Then I was like, no, no, no. There's like, I think I need to do this. And so that kind of inspired me. But it's so funny how things work. You know, like first I got the knock, I ignored it. Then, you know, it just like, I really believe that if you're tapped in and listening to yourself, you can't miss what's meant for you. Like you'll always find it. So, and that's it's been I've had evidence throughout my life of that. So that's why I think I just don't worry as much anymore because I just know if I'm tuning into myself, listening to my heart, listening to my intuition, I'm gonna be a okay. Yeah. So Croatia was my first one. And then after that, uh, I went to Crete. Same, I use this company too. So I went to Crete, then I went to Amalfi Coast in Puglia, which was amazing. Yeah, that one, yeah. It's just like it was it's the speaking by language. Oh, and now I struggle. Like, I don't get me wrong, I love uh traveling with people, but I got kind of spoiled, like traveling by myself. You don't have to ask when anybody else wants to be able to do it. What's the answer to anybody? Do whatever the hell you want. Yeah, and I had like romances on those trips to it was just like the full package. I had little like flings and I'm obsessed. It was great. Yeah, I got kissed and capri. It was like basics. So, and then my lat my latest one this past June, I went completely by myself, not with a tour to Mexico to this like kind of like wellness resort, and they had yoga and like sound baths, and it was just very restorative and beautiful. And again, I just I really enjoyed being by myself, and it was one of those moments where you ever stop and look at yourself and you're like, Man, I've come really far, really far. And I just had that moment in Mexico. I was like, I would have never done this five years ago, or just even thought of it, and now it's one of my favorite things, something that I would have been afraid of is one of my favorite things, and it's just so funny how life works.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Think about that for a second, like oh the the power, if you just allow yourself to dig into it, to have these experiences, be open, just openness, curiosity, right? Like, yeah, it's scary as hell. Maybe the first time that you do something like that alone, even if it's not solo travel, right? Just anything in life. But like, what if what if you had been closed off, right? What if you didn't listen to those nudges? Like, where might you be? I don't know, right? Like rhetorical, obviously, but uh and it's like such a great example of like being so proud of ourselves too. And thank you also for for acknowledging that too. And like, let's all take a second to realize like how far we've come and allow ourselves to get excited about like where we want to go too. I well uh one thing you mentioned earlier, you know, I'm I'm like you're like I'm so much more present, and like because that's so true, that's all we really have. So, like, you know, but I I know us grievers, right? We dwell, we get stuck in the past, we the guilt and the regret and the what ifs and the coulda, woulda, shoulda's, and all the things. I I get that, right? But I think you are such a beautiful example of making room for the present for sure, daring yourself to be excited for the future and what that could look like, even if you have absolutely no idea at the time, like we were saying earlier, you're like, I don't know what this looks like, but I'm manifesting it, I'm gonna make it happen one way or another. And that's I mean, it's just and and it's gonna ebb and flow. And that and it does, right? As you mentioned, like the little grief waves come up, the little like traumatic moments that we've been through. Like, yeah, we're gonna have our little flashbacks, they're they're gonna come up, but what a journey you have been on. Oh my god, I can talk to you about like this for you.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Well, you get it. We're we're kindred spirits, and I just love when I meet

Turning Pain to Purpose

SPEAKER_03 56:03

other people because I think it can be easy to fall into like victim consciousness and why me. And it's easy to get stuck there, but I love meeting people, and this is what the podcast world has opened me up to is just meeting amazing people who've taken their pain and turned it into something beautiful. Like it's inevitable pain in this life. We're all gonna experience it, we're all gonna go through it, but it doesn't have to define us and it doesn't have to keep us stuck. There's so much more life to live. So I just love, I just love what you're doing because I know that even though what I went through was hard and I've kind of come out on the other side, so to speak, I'm still there's still grief awaiting me later on. Yeah, it's a lifelong thing. And so you're just doing something so amazing in that like it's just a reminder that we're gonna be okay and you're not alone in your grief. So just thank you for creating this space. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing everything that you have. I just yeah, I knew people were gonna leave inspired today, and I have no doubt that they were because I feel inspired. So I'm like, how can I get more in alignment? That's like what you know I'm all about these days. But you've given everyone here not only just inspiration, but so much to think about, and also ways that they can practically apply some of these things in their life too, right? Be it the voice notes or or journaling, or maybe maybe it is time to get in therapy, you know, whatever it is that might resonate with someone today. But just again, I think more moreover, just instilling that hope. And I know like what we were talking about, like sometimes you are so in the grief and so in it, like you just don't even like hope's nowhere to be found days like that.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

I I have those days. So I people say to me, How are you so positive all the time? I'm like, I'm not. I just like you're just happening. I'm just like the all the time part. Like it's yeah, exactly. Like right now, I'm just jazzed because I'm with you and I'm excited. But I'm I'm not like this every day. I have my days where I'm like, I'm over those, but it's always just like coming out of that and just finding the light again. And it's just like an ebb and flow, like you said.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Yeah, absolutely. Beautifully said. Last

Where to Find Jess

SPEAKER_01 58:04

thing, where can people find you? Where can they find the podcast? And if there's anything else you wanted to mention too about the podcast, we talked about the podcast a little bit today, but anything else you want to mention about that or anything else in terms of how people can connect with you, work with you, all the things, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_03 58:17

Yeah, uh, you can find me at thegreatdetour.com, and I'm pretty active on Instagram at thegreatour. And yeah, check out the podcast. It's we're on all streaming platforms. I'll be launching a new season coming soon. And then yeah, I would love to have you on the next season and tell your story. You just tell me listeners. I'm there. My listeners will love it, so I can't wait.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

It's amazing. Jess, thank you so much. This was an incredible conversation. I'm so grateful for you. Oh my gosh, I'm so grateful for you too. Thank you, Tara. I am sending you a huge thank you for tuning in to today's episode, my friend. Visit lossesbecome gains.com for my blog, more coping tools, ways to work with me, and so much more. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already, and share this episode or this podcast with someone who could use it too. I'll catch you in the next episode.