Designed for Learning

The Notre Dame Inclusive Teaching Academy

• Notre Dame Learning • Season 1 • Episode 2

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“Incredibly rich and textured and nuanced.” “Re-energized me to continue working on my teaching.” “Really wonderful and empowering.”

These are some of the phrases past attendees have used to describe the Notre Dame Inclusive Teaching Academy (NDITA). To learn more about what makes it so special, Designed for Learning host Jim Lang talks with Horane Diatta-Holgate, one of its organizers, and 2024 participant Dana Lashley, who is an associate teaching professor of chemistry at Notre Dame.

NDITA combines keynotes, interactive sessions, and structured work time to allow participants to reflect on their teaching practices and learn practical strategies for promoting inclusivity in their courses to the benefit of all students.

Hosted in Chicago by Notre Dame Learning’s Kaneb Center for Teaching Excellence, NDITA is open to educators from both Notre Dame and other institutions, with the Kaneb Center covering much of the cost of attendance. Applications for the 2025 NDITA are due by March 10.

Key Topics Discussed:

  • The history and structure of NDITA, including the financial support available for participants to attend
  • The 2025 NDITA theme of making learning more accessible
  • Dana’s takeaways as a past NDITA participant who came to the academy already possessing a considerable amount of teaching experience 
  • The distinctions between various terminologies in the inclusive teaching space
  • The open nature of NDITA, where everyone is welcome, regardless of their particular pedagogical mindsets and what inclusive teaching means to them
  • Why when he works with instructors on inclusive teaching, Horane starts with what they’re already doing (and doing well)
  • The experiences as students that led to Dana’s and Horane’s interests in inclusive teaching

Guest Bios: Horane Diatta-Holgate is an assistant teaching professor and the program director of inclusive pedagogy in Notre Dame Learning’s Kaneb Center for Teaching Excellence, where he supports and consults with instructors on cultivating inclusive classroom environments for and with their students. He earned his MSEd and Ph.D. in educational psychology and research methodology from Purdue University.

Dana Lashley joined Notre Dame’s Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry as an associate teaching professor in 2024 after 10 years on the faculty at William & Mary. She holds a Ph.D. in synthetic organic chemistry and medicinal chemistry from Auburn University and teaches both semesters of the organic chemistry sequence at Notre Dame, among other courses.

Resources Mentioned:

Designed for Learning is hosted by Jim Lang, a professor of the practice in Notre Dame Learning’s Kaneb Center for Teaching Excellence and the author of several influential books on teaching. The podcast is produced by Notre Dame Learning’s Office of Digital Learning. For more, visit learning.nd.edu. You can also follow Notre Dame Learning on LinkedIn.

(upbeat music)[JIM LANG] Welcome to 'Designed for Learning,' a podcast from'Notre Dame Learning.' I'm your host, Jim Lang.(upbeat music) Today, I'm looking forward to a conversation about the'Notre Dame Inclusive Teaching Academy,' which will take place in the first week of June. I was able to attend the 2024 academy and spent four days with more than two dozen participants and presenters thinking about how we can make our teaching more inclusive, both in our courses and also at our institutions. So to describe this incredible opportunity which is available both for Notre Dame faculty and also participants from other colleges and universities, as well as to discuss inclusion teaching more generally, I'm joined by two guests today who have been part of the program, one as a facilitator and one as a participant. Horane Diatta-Holgate is an assistant teaching professor and the program director of inclusive pedagogy in Notre Dame Learnings, Kaneb Center for Teaching Excellence, where he supports and consults with instructors both faculty and graduate students on cultivating inclusive classroom environments for and with their students. He also provides support to instructors developing their intercultural knowledge and competence through inclusive teaching practices, as well as embed diversity, equity, inclusivity throughout different elements of their courses and curricula. Horane, welcome.[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Thank you. Glad to be here.[JIM LANG] Dana Lashley is an associate teaching professor of chemistry. Dana joined the university this fall after ten years at William & Mary. A refugee who was raised in Germany after her family fled from Iran, she's passionate about global education and study abroad. She has developed various public health related courses that she teaches when directing programs all across the globe from Geneva to Cape Town. Dana, welcome as well.[DANA LASHLEY] Thank you, happy to be here.[JIM LANG] So I didn't mention in my introduction was an amazing fact about the Inclusive Teaching Academy. Notre Dame covers most of the costs for all participants, including registration and lodging for four nights at the Palmer House Hilton in Chicago. So folks just need to get themselves to Chicago and pay for their own dinners. This is an incredible feature for this opportunity. So let me start with you, Horane, and invite you to tell us a little bit about the history, logistics of the Academy.[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Yes, so brief history of the Academy started in June 2022, and it came out of a provost initiative here at Notre Dame called the'Moment to See, Courage to Act.' And this is, we just came out of the pandemic, everything happening with education, healthcare, and equities, and different things. So the university provost office had this initiative where faculty were invited to submit grants. So our directorate center submitted a grant for the academy, which was fully funded. Interestingly, they needed to do it that semester. So the first one was a little bit rush put together, I had the opportunity to be a participant. I started at Notre Dame in July of 2022. So I was invited since I already accepted the job I was going to be at Notre Dame. So they said, "Well, come see what it's gonna be like because you're gonna be responsible for this."(laughing) Yes. And I had a great experience. We had lots of speakers from various backgrounds related to inclusive teaching, various disciplinary backgrounds. And so the structure of the academy is really a mix of interactive lecture keynotes, where we invite experts on inclusive teaching around a specific topic or theme. This year, our theme, the first part of the theme always remains the same, designing for inclusion, equity, and justice. The second part we change each year that's since I've arrived. And this year we're focusing on making learning more accessible. In the past, we did things like taking small steps, since you said I can do small teaching, that's fine. This year, we want to focus on making learning accessible and we're bringing two great speakers for our highlight keynotes. Mays Imad, who is one of the authors of the 'Norton Guide for Equity-Minded Teaching,' and Sarah Silverman, who is an independent faculty developer, who does a lot around disability work, neurodiversity. So we pair the sort of interactive keynotes with sessions on various aspects of inclusive teaching, thinking about the course design process really. So think from your course goals to your daily routines in class. But we do this through the lens of we're gonna sort of give faculty an opportunity to reflect on their practice. Why do they do what they do? How they teach? How did that came about? So kind of giving them some sort of education on the research and pedagogy, how we got there. So that's some general structure of the Academy. In terms of flow, this year's Academy will be June 2 to the 6. Yes. And so we start on Monday, Monday evening with a light reception. People come in, welcome, and then we start first full day on the Tuesday and it runs until the Friday around afternoon, 1130 there. And each day is a mix of, we do three sessions. The first one had a lot of sessions. So since we have learned some things since then, this is the fourth time, so we have sort of pared it down to give people using the feedback that we got from participants each year to say, we want to give people more time to work. So anybody who comes to the academy you will have an opportunity to learn from experts, like-minded people, people within adjacent disciplines. You mentioned that it's for Notre Dame faculty But then we also recruit from other faculty as well through an application process. So each day they're having sessions from starting at about 830 in the morning. We do provide food as Jim said, so lunch. So if you're listening to this, you will be fed and taken care of. And we give people time to work. The afternoon session is structured work time, so it's where everything that you learn in a day, you're trying to apply it to your course in some way. And we learned some lessons there which we'll implement this time around. Does that give you, I hope that makes sense.[JIM LANG] Yeah, that's great. And I remember that as being a real feature of the academy, which is sometimes you go to a conference or something like this and you're just working all day long, session after session, and your brain it gets too full. At the end of the day, you just can't pay attention anymore and so having that opportunity, not only within the sessions, but usually interaction and work time in the session itself, but also at the end of the day, the opportunity to kind of really sit, and reflect, work with other people, and get some feedback. So I remember that as well, that the presenters who facilitated would go around and actually be available to work with people as they're working in a structured work time too.[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Yes, so we really try to be there, be present. So we're not just sending people off on their own. So that's why it's called structured work time, and not just work time. Because we're there to support them. Something I didn't mention, sort of this was four days is a lot for any faculty member. And it's designed that way intentionally simply because we want people to take the time to reflect on their teaching, to think about, just came out of a semester or a whole academic year really, and you a lot of feedback from students. Some may have gone well, some did not. But then you get into summer or other activities, research, travel, and so on. And then you get back And you kind of start the semester again or the academic year sort of then with a rush. So we want to give people space. So the way the director puts it, Kristi Rudenga, when she started the academy, she was like, well, you won't have time to run back if you're on Notre Dame's campus to run back to your lab to run a gel or check on that. You're really present with this group. And it's a group of like-minded people who value inclusive teaching, who want to have conversations about teaching. And that's really valuable.[JIM LANG] Yeah, that's excellent. So, Dana, you can tell us a little bit about your experiences from the academy in terms of what just Horane described for us just now and what your sort of major takeaways were from the experience and maybe give a sense of a participant's view of what the experience is like.[DANA LASHLEY] Sure, I think my biggest takeaway which was really an aha moment was that inclusive teaching does not just benefit the minoritized students but it benefits all students so there's really no reason not to apply those strategies that we learned about at the academy.[JIM LANG] Yeah, so what do you think are sort of as you were going through different sessions, I mean, what was your sort of process like in terms of where you were before coming to the academy in terms of like how the moments of enlightenment or the things that you focused in terms of your teaching or your courses or whatever it might have been?[DANA LASHLEY] Yeah, so after ten years of teaching experience, I thought that I already knew everything. Like what was I gonna learn that was new? And that was completely shattered. That was absolutely not true. And one of the biggest things that I took advantage of is revamping my syllabus. So I was going to teach a course that I had taught before, but for the first time at Notre Dame. And I was able to use some of those strategies about language in the syllabus to make sure that the students understand not just what they're gonna be learning, but why. And I think that's important to take the time.[JIM LANG] Yeah, so I think that's one of the great things about the academy too is you focus on actually your plans and the things you've developed, your documents for the course and assignments. We can focus on all those different things and look at them through that lens of inclusive teaching. So, Horane, you mentioned the fact that the theme this year is accessibility. And so I wanted you to kind of help us educate us a little bit in terms of all the terminologies that we see in this space. So, we have the academy is called the Inclusive Teaching Academy. We hear equity-minded teaching, accessibility, universal design for learning. So, how do you sort of find your way through those, all the terminologies and find your space here to make that focus for the academy?[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] How much time do we got?(laughing) Inclusive teaching comes from sort of multiple discipline, different frameworks are sort of informing the principles. And the structure of the academy really involves structured around principles of inclusive teaching, as well as this developmental approach that we think about different elements of course. So a faculty member coming in, you don't, with inclusive teaching sometimes people think that you have to, we're gonna redo everything and we need to fix everything because everything is bad. You might need to do that, but who has time to really do all of that? So we focus on taking sort of chunks, size chunks, small steps, pick an area, pick an element of the course design process. If you come to the academy, you'll learn a lot, but the only thing that you will focus on is your assignments and assessments. And if that's all you do, that's a step. So we inclusivity sort of, and part of the reason I didn't create that name because it predates me, but I've kept it as opposed to labeling it sort of equity minded. People come from different backgrounds and experiences when they hear anything related to inclusivity. Anything that has to do with diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, and whatever other terms you're adding to it. But so we want to at least communicate to people that you're welcome. We have faculty who have been teaching for 20 years at the academy. People who are at the beginning of their career. And so everyone is welcome. And not everyone is going to agree on everything. At the tables, people have conversations about why they do what they do, why this works in their teaching context versus another one. And inclusive, I think is an accessible term, you said equity-minded universal designed for learning, we're getting into specific frameworks, which we do focus on. There's a whole session where we think about pedagogy, as an instructor, where do you get your pedagogical lens from? How does that inform your teaching? So we do get into specific frameworks and principles that draw from anti-racist, teaching anti-racist pedagogy, decolonial pedagogy, universal design. But equity-minded is the more recent term I think in the literature that really focuses on the mindset and that's what inclusive teaching is about. It starts with, it's not tips and tricks and strategies. If you do get into the practicalities of it, we want faculty to have tools to take back and as they redesign their course. But first we start with first principle, which is critical self-reflection. And we're thinking about the mindset. So what is my orientation towards this? What I found is with the work in inclusive teaching, a lot of faculty, we value equity, we value justice, we value belonging inclusion. We have all these values, but we don't really have tools to implement them in our teaching. So the academy helps to sort of put those values front and center, and put them at the center of your teaching instead of being driven exclusively by content, because that tends to be our default, the content. So we focus on the design and we take it step by step. The model that we use was developed by Thomas Nelson Laird, the academy structured around it, nine elements of course design, of which content is only one. So we focus on all the elements, yes, but not trying to get us out of the mindset of just starting with content.[JIM LANG] Yeah. You can actually see in the presenters that you brought in this year, they're inclusive in different ways. So Mays also is actually a refugee, she's a refugee story as well. And Sarah Silverman focused on neurodiversity. And so you're seeing inclusive is being used in different senses, encompassing different kinds of ways that students come into our courses. And so you see that as well. And so actually I'm kind of curious now about you both bring your experiences and your convictions in this work as well. And so we mentioned in your bio, Dana, that you're coming from this experience of being a refugee as well, and how that maybe has shaped your convictions here in this area and why you have committed to this kind of work. So can you tell us a little bit about that story and how that may go deep into your story, but essentially how that has informed you as a teacher and as someone who has passions in this area?[DANA LASHLEY] Yeah, sure. So growing up in Germany as a Middle Eastern kid definitely shaped the way I am as a teacher today. I think what really changed who I became were teachers that I came across along the way who really believed in me and who really fostered this sense of self-confidence in me despite the fact that I was not German, despite the fact that I was different. They did not treat me differently. They believed in me and they gave me those chances to grow. And these types of teachers and mentors made a difference in my life. I am here where I am today because of them. And so I want to give back. I want to instill that same sense in my students.[JIM LANG] Yeah, and you've seen ways now that you can do that actually in your course design or the way you've been talking about your syllabus, for example, or in the classroom itself. Can you think a little bit about, with this, a little bit in terms of like the actual classroom practice, like how do you enact those values when you're in the classroom with students?[DANA LASHLEY] Absolutely. There's nothing more important to me than having my students have a sense of belonging and welcoming in my classroom. Organic chemistry is difficult enough. I don't need the students to have the sense that the teacher is all up on them or feels that they do not belong. So I want them to feel comfortable and at ease so that they can focus on their learning. And so I try to reiterate that verbally, every class try to just be kind, just be nice. Don't be judgmental. Be understanding of the students' circumstances. They have all kinds of things going on in their life that we don't know. So we have to be understanding of the circumstances. And one thing that was actually born at this academy was the idea to start a new student organization for diverse students in chemistry and actually not just in chemistry, in STEM. And so I wanted us to have a place where we can come together and talk about chemistry or other sciences, but also give back to the community and do outreach and excite children in our community about chemistry and science. And so this idea came about at the academy in one of the later sessions. And then I went back And I was pondering upon it all semester. And then toward the end of the semester, I made an announcement in my class. I teach one of the Galvin sessions. Sorry, I teach one of the Galvin sections of organic chemistry. And after I made this one announcement, I set a date for the meeting, for this initial meeting to start the student organization. And to my surprise, there was 30 or 40 students showed up. I couldn't believe it. And it just showed that there was a need. There was a need for a student organization like this at Notre Dame. And I was super happy that there were so many interested students. And so we're gonna get this organization off the ground this semester. And I'm super excited to work as the mentor with the students and to give back to the community and do outreach.[JIM LANG] That's fantastic. And actually, I remember this coming up in the academy. And I think maybe you said something about it in one of the sharing out sessions.[DANA LASHLEY] Yeah, I did.[JIM LANG] Yeah. So that's really fantastic. And it's great, it shows how the academy is not only about your individual courses, but people can take away from something they can enact their institutions in a more general way. So that's a really great story. Great example of how the academy can make a difference. Horane, you have also your sort of story of why you came into this work. And I remember you told me some examples of things where you felt like a little out of place in terms of when you first came to the United States and the educational system. So can you share that a little bit with us?[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Yeah. So I'm originally from the island of Jamaica. And I specify that largely because when I came to the US, I met people from New York. I was in Charlotte, North Carolina, so I went to a historical black college/university. I did not know that HBCUs existed or that was a thing. I just got a scholarship and an opportunity to study in the US, so I came, this was back in 2010. And I remember meeting people from New York, Jamaica, New York And I was like I don't know. So since then I've learned, to specify the island of Jamaica. Most of them just say they're from New York anyways. But for me, as an immigrant in that sense, coming, going to an HBCU it was an interesting experience. I mean, that majority of the student populations student body looked like me, yes. But then I had experiences, part of my identity being as an immigrant, where a lot of things that you hear about I wouldn't say intentional exclusion, but things that the university did a very good job of integrating all the international students and so on and trying to support us in a lot of ways. But you experience things in the classroom, you hear peers talking about that. So that led me to start thinking about my background is educational psychology and research methods. I was studying psychology at the time, but as I went into graduate school, I picked up this area of intercultural communication, or intercultural development. And that's where I kind of come into the inclusive teaching realm, taking what I've learned from psychology, primarily in motivation research, as well as multicultural education and intercultural development. So I think I fit right into inclusive teaching, which is just bringing lots of different perspectives together. But the understanding that, you can have differences between groups like your HBCUs in the US for historical reasons, but then within those groups, there are all these differences. When I show up to teach a class, students come from all these different backgrounds and it's my job as their instructor to make sure everyone feels a sense of belonging, feel like they can learn whatever I'm passing on to them, whatever the content of the subject matter is. So with my desire or passion, I use the word cultivate And I got that from an article Carl Grant, scholar in multicultural education. He writes about, there's an AERA acceptance speech where he talks about, cultivates, using'Cultivating Flourishing Lives' it's the title of the article'Cultivating Flourishing Lives,' and he defines cultivate as the work we do for and with our students and that's what's in said my bio piece because when I think about inclusive teaching, the highest point of inclusive teaching, thinking of a continuum, faculty are doing good, the academy helps them get better, and we all want to improve. The highest point of inclusive teaching is co-creation. Talk about co-creating the learning experience so the faculty is no longer just the sage on the stage presenting information to students, but students are also involved in that process of creating learning experience. So that's the lens I come from and I bring to it through both my personal experience, the research, the literature, to see how we can cultivate learning experiences. Because it wasn't always my experience where I was given a voice in anything. The instructor just taught and I needed to learn and if I wasn't learned then it was my problem And I needed to figure it out. But when we think about inclusive teaching, we're really being intentional about how we structure the learning environment, bringing students in. It doesn't mean that the student is always going to be right or is gonna take over and drive the conversation, but we develop a trust and a relationship in the context of the course so that we can support similar things to what Dana was saying in terms of getting to know students, understanding their different backgrounds and perspectives, and let that inform sort of how I facilitate the course.[JIM LANG] Yeah, that's great. It's interesting to think about, for example, in your discipline, organic chemistry, Dana, people might say, well, that's not really part of my content. The content of organic chemistry doesn't necessarily relate to inclusion or diversity, that kind of stuff. But the things that you're sharing with us, you're trying to find ways to still make sure everyone feels like they belong, they can learn, they can develop the confidence that you were given and by some teachers in your education. And I think the things you're sharing, for example, a syllabus example, I mean, there's all kinds of opportunities to find these places for inclusive teaching, even if it has nothing to do with your discipline.[DANA LASHLEY] Absolutely. There's so many teachers and professors in chemistry who think that DEI has no place in chemistry because how could you possibly weave that in? But there's, like you said, there's these opportunities that you can seek out, even if it's a little bit of a more kind or a more welcoming language in your syllabus. That can make a difference.[JIM LANG] Absolutely. So, Horane, you work with a lot of faculty not only in the academy but also like on campus as well. So, I'm gonna put you on the spot here.(laughing) So, someone comes to you and looking for help, know they know where they want to make their course more inclusive. Where do you start with them? What's the first thing you're gonna just recommend to them? Are they gonna go to the syllabus first? You can go think about the classroom, the design, what do you, how do you start?[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Yeah, so I start with this assumption, and the academy is structured like this, that no instructor spends time, energy, resources, preparing a class to basically go in and say,"How am I going to mess up these students' lives?"(laughing) Like no instructor does that. It takes a lot of time. Your confidence is affected the first time you go into the class first day. So there are all those things. So I assume that the instructor is already doing some things that are working well in the class. And so we try to identify that from a place of strength and asset. That's an important part, principle of inclusive teaching, and the academy is structured that way. So we assume that the faculty are coming in and they're great faculty. Dana said she was teaching for ten years, and others. So you are doing things that are working well in your class. Depending on the situation, it might be that we just need to optimize a few things. So identify a specific point, so maybe it's the clarity in terms of the assignments where some things are not being explained clearly. Well, let's just focus on that. We can draw from something like transparent assignment design framework that clearly articulates what is the purpose of this assignment, what is it that I'm asking students to do, and how am I going to evaluate this. It's a very simple strategy that gets that something very specific like the assignment and the assessment of course, and connects this using grades, which they care a lot about for better or for worse. So I start from a place of, what are you already doing? And that helps people get relaxed even though they might come in feeling like, nothing is going right. I did all these things and so on. And then my student evaluations were just terrible. But we start, there were some things you did well. A lot of times when instructors do things in their classes, we're not always up front with students about why we're doing what we're doing. And so the student just feels like, this is busy work, but taking time to explain why and sort of the design, the narrative of the course, how this is going to help them so that they can at least begin to identify the value. It's going to be difficult. Organic chemistry is difficult. There are gonna be things that are going to challenge you and that's fine. We have resources to help you. Things in the course, meet us as your instructor, TAs if those things are available. So helping faculty articulate what they're doing and why they're doing it is also just sort of something small.[JIM LANG] So I love two things about it. First of all, so you're assuming goodwill and good intention on the faculty member's part. And I also like the fact sort of it's an asset-based approach. You're essentially saying, you're doing these things, you have some assets already in your toolkit, and I'm trying to help you understand why those are working and enhance them and maybe add a couple of things to your practices. That's a great approach. I think it's a very welcoming approach that can make a difference for a faculty member who's not sure whether they are capable of doing these kinds of work. So that's fantastic. So we work hard in the academy. But at the end of the day, we have some opportunities in the evening to socialize and also opportunities to go to dinner with people. And so, do you remember any good opportunities that you have in Chicago, Dana, when you were there last year?[DANA LASHLEY] Yeah, so we were put in these focus groups. So I was at a table with a few biologists and a couple of chemists. And we really bonded over time and we got the chance to mix and mingle with others at the academy too But I really bonded with the people at my table. And so we did a lot of, we can go to dinner together and we explore Chicago and just exchange. We actually exchanged information, we're in touch with each other because how well we got along and we got to exchange other ideas that we had about our courses with each other. So that was a wonderful opportunity to socialize and mix and mingle with people in the field.[JIM LANG] Yeah, that's excellent. I actually went to a Cubs game one night. So that was my big social opportunity, it was to go to a Cubs game one evening. You were probably working pretty hard at the time, Horane.[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Yeah, I was mostly working on stuff but with the different speakers and so on that we have coming in, so we would go to dinner with them to welcome them to the academy, answer any questions they have. So I did go out. And then I'm not a very social outgoing person.[JIM LANG] But you're a nice guy.[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Dinner is about as much as I could imagine. And then I need to go back to the room and sort of make sure everything is set for the next day. And I will say just the academy is one, costs a lot. Two, it's a lot of planning and I don't do it all by myself. We have a great team in the Kaneb Center different parts of Notre Dame Learning Organization, our office coordinator, Nara, handles all the logistics from beginning to end and everything go smooth. All the rest of our Kaneb staff team, who plan sessions because I couldn't do this all by myself. So there's a great support staff, our communications person comes in, takes pictures, writes things up. So, because if I had to do that, it would just not happen.(laughing) So it's really a team effort. It's an inclusive effort and everyone brings different ideas and so on. I'm in charge of the curriculum and I have to make sure those things go well, but we do have a team that works very hard on it to prepare for people to come, make them feel welcome and engaged with one another.[JIM LANG] Okay, so this has all been great and I'm sure people are excited now about the possibility of applying for the academy. And so that process, people can learn about that process actually in the show notes. There's a link you can click to learn a little bit more about the academy and how you apply, but Horane just tell us a little bit about that process.[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Yeah. So it's a very short application process and that's by design. We're not trying to judge people on whether or not they'd be worthy to come to the academy. It's really based on needs. Something that I also want to make clear, the academy is structured around sort of for instructors who primarily teach sort of four-year residential campus experience. And sure, yes, the title says inclusive, and there are different campuses and different post-secondary education experiences. They vary a lot in terms of student population. The way we have structured the academy, it primarily aligns with the structure of a four-year residential campus experience. So we invite you to apply. It's really short. Yeah, we look forward to seeing you in Chicago.[JIM LANG] All right, excellent. Thank you so much, Horane and Dana. It's been great to hear about this opportunity and I hope that folks will take advantage of it. And thanks for joining us today.[HORANE DIATTA-HOLGATE] Thank you.[DANA LASHLEY] Thank you.[JIM LANG] 'Designed for Learning' is a production of 'Notre Dame Learning,' at the University of Notre Dame. For more, visit our website at learning.nd.edu.