Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where host Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator brings you real stories, hard truths, and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it, or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence, and resilience.
Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
EP #6: Expert Insights on Financial Planning in Divorce with Guest Gregory Gann, CDFA
Navigate the turbulent waters of divorce with our esteemed guest, Gregory Gann, a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and president of Gann Partnership LLC. Gregory brings his deep expertise to the table, shedding light on the distinct role a CDFA plays in carefully balancing financial implications, negotiating equitable settlements, and significantly trimming down court time and costs. Discover how divorce-specific financial planning differs from the traditional approaches and why there's an increasing demand for this specialized knowledge. Together, Gregory and host Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator, explore the emotional toll litigation often takes and advocate for amicable resolutions to prevent escalating tensions.
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And we are in the wealthiest country on the globe and Maryland, where we're based, is one of the wealthiest states within the wealthiest country on the globe and yet, every single week, I see bands of people who are seeking to get divorced and are really living on the edge.
Intro/Close Speaker:Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Cary Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Cary Jacobson:Welcome to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the Trenches, where we share real stories and expert insights to help you navigate the divorce process with less stress and more clarity. I'm your host, Cary Jacobson, and today I'm thrilled to have my guest and friend, Gregory Gann. Greg is the president of Gann Partnership LLC. He is a certified divorce financial analyst, CDFA, and has been operating his own wealth management firm since 1989. He's also certified an active collaborative law practitioner, as well as in mediation, and so he brings a unique combination of skills and experience to the divorce financial analyst world. Thank you so much, Greg, for being here today.
Greg Gann:Thank you.
Cary Jacobson:So, Greg, can you tell our listeners a little bit about what a certified divorce financial analyst does and how your financial background complements that role?
Greg Gann:Sure. So what a certified divorce financial analyst does is he or she looks at the facts in a case, the financial implications in a case, and analyzes those. looks at ways to reach settlement, looks at tax implications, trade-offs, offsets to come up with things that are equitable and help to expedite resolution and minimize court time and costs and minimize court time and costs
Cary Jacobson:Absolutely, and I know that that is something that you spend a lot of your time doing, so tell us a little bit about how you, in that role, can assist a person who may be going through the divorce process of a person who may be going through the divorce process.
Greg Gann:Well, it's integral in what I do because to me, everything other than custody, everything about a divorce is financial. So having an understanding of should we, if we take this asset versus that asset, what's the real growth value of it. Looking at alimony as an example, well, if you get X amount of property and that property can bake for a number of years before you have to start taking distributions from it, maybe you don't need as much alimony. So it's integrated in every aspect of analyzing a situation to determine what is the best outcome for a client. Whether I'm representing just one client or both, as a neutral. It underscores everything we do.
Cary Jacobson:Yeah, yeah, is there a scenario where your financial planning comes into the divorce process?
Greg Gann:You know when you're helping a client through the divorce process and really like planning what post divorce is going to look like. You know that's a good question. I have a background in traditional financial planning but I refer all of that out to other folks. Today I concentrate really on the divorce. But it's sort of like if you're a doctor, you've been ingrained in medical techniques and background. So understanding the full aspect of financial planning is is, I think, part and parcel of who I am and what I bring to the table. But I don't this divorce. Financial planning is a whole different animal from traditional financial or retirement planning. So it's important, I think, have that understanding and that knowledge. But it really is a separate animal and this is my real passion. My real calling is in the divorce side and there aren't that many people who really specialize on the divorce side, so it really is more of a unique niche, if you will.
Cary Jacobson:Right, and that was going to be my next question. When someone is kind of starting that divorce process, how do they find someone who does what you do and is not the traditional financial planner that most of us have heard of, planner that most of us have heard of?
Greg Gann:Well, the good news is is that 15 years ago, no one even heard of what a certified divorce financial analyst was. Today there's more awareness. Today people are looking for it. Today people are looking for you know, like for you, Cary, mediators. They're looking for people of diverse backgrounds and many, many, many people loathe the idea of having to go to court.
Greg Gann:And what I would say to people I know I feel like I'm preaching the choir with you, Cary is that when you go from spouse A and spouse B to plaintiff A and defendant B, it's really downhill. I mean, I've never been served a lawsuit, I've never been served papers. If the first suit I ever received was from a spouse, I mean that would be very jolting, and so it's very hard to recover from that to. I mean people do, but it's why not? If the core of divorce is a financial settlement, why not start with a financial proposal and analyze different financial proposals and I'm not naive, I don't think everybody can settle but at least try there and then go to court, as opposed to the way most people unfortunately approach it is to go to court and then try to settle.
Greg Gann:After all, the money has been spent.
Cary Jacobson:I 100% agree with you and that's the way we try to guide our clients that reach as many or as much of the settlement first. But the four tensions get higher because it is so much more complicated once the documents have been filed in court, because, even though it's not as necessary any longer to make as many you know negative allegations in the pleadings, I think a lot of times that still happens and it's very difficult to recover from um. You know, as that spouse you know, I often see the people who have have been referred to us through court mediation Right and I can't tell you how many times I've had scenarios where one of the first things that comes up is well, they said this in their, their pleading Right, they said this about me in what they filed with the court, about me in what they filed with the court. And it's really difficult emotionally to get past that in order for them to get to the point where they're willing and ready to have, you know, substantive conversations about settlement.
Greg Gann:Right. I mean, and this is the one person you know these people selected in their lives. They didn't select their kids, they didn't select their parents, they selected a spouse. It's fine that it's not working, but how do you move forward in a healthy way? You just made me think of something that I see frequently, and I have a couple of cases like this today, Cary, where it really starts as a divorce.
Greg Gann:There are minor children. As a divorce, there are minor children and all of a sudden, the issues of the minor children, there's a lot of tension between the parents and all of a sudden it becomes a custody battle as well as a divorce battle. And spouse A will say I want to get retribution and I want, you know, I want accountability for what he or she has done. And I say you know, here's the problem. No, it's, there's no accountability. You know you're not going to go too far.
Greg Gann:So and I said, look, let's get you divorced. It's a. You know how do you get an elephant, one bite at a time. If there are custody issues and divorce issues, let's get you divorced and then you're not going to have to deal with this person in the same light. And then let's address the children's issues, Because once you're divorced, you're divorced, but issues around children can always be reopened and you know, if you try to tackle too much at one time, versus bifurcating that those issues, I think you're much better to segregate them and resolve one thing at a time and have freedom from this individual and then only address the kids' issues.
Cary Jacobson:Yeah, the only hesitation I have from that from a legal perspective is you have to deal with the custody issues at least in part. You know, have an agreement on the custody issues before the divorce can be finalized. And so often what I see people do is, you know, kind of resign themselves to. This is what it's going to look like, right, and this is all the best that I can do instead of going further and pushing the custody issues and it's so much more challenging to modify later. So you know, it's a different standard and it's more challenging to modify later. What I hope happens in many scenarios is if they can resolve the financial issues, oftentimes the communication between the parents becomes more effective and they can kind of put the financial issues to the side and deal more effectively with the co-parenting.
Greg Gann:Yeah, there are just some of those cases. I'm sure you see too, where you know that it's going to be until these kids are 18, there's going to be a battle and it'll never end. And if one parent says he's drinking, and you can do a testing or whatever, but there's no guarantee and nothing is foolproof and until there's really a problem. Unfortunately, our law is reactionary rather than proactive, and that's just a problem for our parents when you know actor. a bad actor
Cary Jacobson:In your experience, what would you say one common mistake you've seen people make during the their divorce process that could have been prevented, and how can our listeners avoid that?
Greg Gann:Well, I think there's so many you know probably examples, so it's hard to come up with one, but I think sometimes people are become so exhausted that they throw in the towel and this is going to have a permanent impact on them. So what I always say is is take this off of your shoulders. You know, put this onto our shoulders. Let let your divorce be our problem. Remove yourself as much as possible. But if you, if you're surrendering to things that are not fair for you because you just have been worn out and dragged down, it's going to impact you and you may think that someone's going to help you and you're going to be able to move forward and you're going to be able to be bailed out. But I've seen so many times where it doesn't happen that way. So, know when to stop. That's another thing. It's tied to that. Know when to be satisfied and grateful for the terms that you reached, after going back and forth and a lot of analysis. But if you're not at that point where you're satisfied, don't. Don't cash in.
Cary Jacobson:Yeah, I think that is something that we see often. It's. It's really a difficult balancing point, right of Of Making sure your interests are protected, but not necessarily going overboard and continuing to push for more and push for more. But I agree with you that sometimes people do give in too early just to be done right, because they want to move on to the next chapter, but they really aren't looking 10 years down the road. You know, 15 years down the road, on how they're going to be financially. You know well off and are they going to be able to make it when they could have otherwise been been okay?
Greg Gann:And I guess a corollary to that, though, is is you know, one of the first things I learned in law school and it comes up every single week was you can have a right, but not necessarily a remedy Right, and let's say, you're entitled to something, but you have a violent spouse and you're worried about your. You know your health and you know, maybe, even your life. You know your, your health, and you know maybe even your life. At some point you've got to look at, I think, that whole big picture and say what is what? Is it worth? What you know how? How how far do you want to push? How far do you want to proceed? Can you live with this Um and uh? So I think it's just important to look at all, not just finances, but certain finances, but the whole big picture
Cary Jacobson:Right, yeah, and that's something that we stress to our clients that we can give them the information of what they are legally entitled to, of what they are legally entitled to, but we're never going to tell them what they should necessarily pursue, because what's right for them may not be right for the next client, right? Everybody puts a different value on those intangibles that we're not living the day-to-day experiencing. And so, really, as long as we're informing our clients so that they can make those informed decisions, that's all that we can really ask for. And I think sometimes, unfortunately, attorneys often push their clients, you know, to go further when it's A not beneficial in the long run and b will ultimately be to their detriment
Greg Gann:Yeah, it's the party's divorce, not divorce. lawyer's divorce. And many times lawyers forget whose divorce it really is right?
Cary Jacobson:know that we kind of discussed this prior to the episode starting. So a little bit more about those scenarios where you are working with an individual or a couple who may have limited financial means. It's not that they don't have a job and some resources, but they really are struggling to make it past paycheck to paycheck. What do you do in? Those scenarios and how can you really help them address those issues?
Greg Gann:Well, it really is quite sobering because we are in the everything bubble, you know, as we speak in January 2025. And it's been a big bubble for many, many, many years. I mean real estate is all time high, stock markets all time high, bond market, gold, bitcoin I mean everything is flying on all cylinders. And yet and we are in the wealthiest country on the globe and Maryland, where we're based, is one of the wealthiest states within the wealthiest country on the globe and yet every single week, I see, you know, bands of people who are seeking to get divorced and are really living on the edge. Yeah, some of them only have money in an IRA or 401k which they really don't want to touch Right, and others have even had to tap that.
Greg Gann:I see people where one family the other one side is being supported with fees by a family member where the other does not have that same resource. I've had cases where I, you know, defer my fee until after their settlement because there's not going to be any cash, there's no money to help them in the divorce, and they say I really want your assistance. I just I don't have the cash until the property sells or until I receive my share of the investment or equity in the house or whatever it might be. So that, to me, is a huge issue. And you know, look, people are very thrifty when they buy a car. I mean they, they know it to the red penny what they're they're getting when they, you know they, they know what what. They're not great sales. You know people shoppers they're not great consumers, because that's the word I was looking for because they're just, they just take blindly what you know is is promoted to them and oftentimes it actually it's not just that, it doesn't help the outcome. Oftentimes when you're pushing and fighting and dealing with court, it actually makes it a lot worse and the parties end up with less, not more.
Greg Gann:So I just find it really interesting that not only are we the everything bubble, but we're in the one of the wealthiest states in the entire country. I mean, we border, you know, dc, which is considered recession proof or whatever. And I have to tell you I'm in the DC market all the time and people are struggling and it's very hard. When you go, they're struggling in one household and now they've got to stretch those dollars to two and you put 50 to $100,000 in legal fees into that. They just don't have it. It's not, you know, yeah, and unfortunately again, oftentimes one side has family resources that will pay for that. You know they wouldn't, they wouldn't buy them a car, but they'll spend $40,000 to pay for a lawyer. It's for me kind of strange.
Cary Jacobson:Yeah, and especially when there are alternatives, such as your services, where you can be a neutral and you know, a mediator between the parties to help them resolve those things you know our services that do the same thing or even representing one party and trying to negotiate those terms outside of court, where they could save tens of thousands of dollars and all of the stress related to the court process when ultimately, so often they end up resolving, you know, right before trial anyway.
Greg Gann:Yeah, Well, and if they have limited means, Cary, how much is there to fight over? Right, and if the legal fees I see this so often the amount of money in controversy between the two parties is less than the legal fees. There's with that picture, right?
Cary Jacobson:I see it all the time as well? Um, what strategies do you recommend for individuals to rebuild after divorce to secure their financial future?
Greg Gann:you know budget? I mean nothing, I don't have any. You know miracle or you know magic wand, it's, uh, living within their means. Um, I, I find oftentimes people talk about repurchasing a home as opposed to renting. I don't think that and they think that they're throwing money down the drain by renting. I think, when you're in a transition period, because interest rates have been suppressed for so long, real estate values might not appreciate, they actually might even depreciate. So this notion of I've got to build equity, well, you know, quite frankly, over the next five, next five, six years, there may not be any equity. So, um, uh, you know, but it's, it's I, I can't.
Greg Gann:It's a challenge because if, if a household is having difficulty saving while there's one roof, it's that much more challenging when they're when there are two. And the only thing I can say is you know, they got to think about where they spend their money and they got to think about how they spend on their divorce. Because, you know, if you take to your point, if you take 10, 20, 30, 40, whatever thousand dollars out of retirement savings or out of kids' educational funds, it's very, very difficult to rebuild. That. I mean for all intents and purposes, it's gone forever, because even if you recoup the $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, you lose the earnings and the growth on that money. So you know, they just have to be wise consumers and look at the big picture, yeah.
Cary Jacobson:Well, kind of as I wrap up, how you know, can you tell our listeners how they can learn more about you and the services that you provide?
Greg Gann:Sure. So I have a website Gann Mediation and Litigation Support. Fortunately I have you know, like you, gary Steller five-star reviews. They can look up certified divorce financial analyst and I do complimentary consultations. I always say to people about 35 plus percent of the folks we meet are not candidates for what we do, but I try to make sure. Well, every single person I have dealt with over the last I don't know 15 plus years, every single person has told us that they gain knowledge and wisdom that helped them and that they haven't gotten elsewhere. At least, if I can help them, you know that, that, you know, makes me happy. And then I, you know we engage with people who there is a fit and I at least help the people who, even if there is not a fit, to move forward, because my passion isn't changing the way America divorces. That's my calling.
Cary Jacobson:I 100% agree. And just to let listeners know that oftentimes you and I have teamed up over the years in scenarios where you will handle the negotiation for the parties on the financial side of things, you know, especially when we're dealing with those complex financial situations assets, you know, restricted stock units, compensation, those really complex situations, businesses you know those types of things. And then on the flip side, they come to us and we deal with you know ensuring that those terms of their agreement are included in their marital settlement agreement and address any of the custody related issues that they may have and then ultimately help them with the final divorce proceeding. And I find that that has really been a great model for the clients that we have worked on together.
Greg Gann:We really have embodied the collaborative approach, because you handle the marital settlement agreement and the legal side and I'm doing the financial and the negotiation, and we each stick to our, our area of expertise and our knitting and and the other thing is that the client gets two heads in question instead of one. So it really works out quite well and we can we can set our fee on basically a limited scope to what we each specialize yeah, yeah, and so for any of our listeners that that might be a good fit.
Cary Jacobson:Um, let us know, and we would be happy to assist you in that process. Well, thanks again, Greg, for joining us on this episode of Divorce. Diaries. Thanks for sharing your expertise and for those of you listening. Remember that navigating divorce is not just about ending a chapter. It's about starting a new one on solid financial footing. If you found today's discussion helpful, be sure to subscribe, leave us a review and share this episode with someone who might benefit. Until next time, take care and keep moving forward.
Intro/Close Speaker:Thanks for joining us today on this episode of Divorce Diaries. Remember every journey is unique, but you don't have to navigate it alone. Visit JacobsonFamilyLawcom or call 443-726-4912 for support and guidance.