Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where host Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator brings you real stories, hard truths, and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it, or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence, and resilience.
Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
EP #13: Navigating Divorce with Empowerment with Guest Beverly Price
Are you or someone you know navigating the complex landscape of divorce? In this episode, host, Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator with Jacobson Family Law and guest, Beverly Price, delve into the critical elements of empowerment, resilience, and self-discovery in the face of marital dissolution. With expert insights from Beverly Price, a renowned divorce and empowerment coach, they explore the often-overlooked emotional and practical challenges women encounter when going through a divorce. Beverly’s work focuses on helping women reclaim their self-worth and independence during this difficult transition while also raising awareness about the various forms of domestic abuse that may exist in relationships.
Visit jacobsonfamilylaw.com to learn more.
Visit jacobsonworkshop.com to learn more.
And actually what I found is it's the women that are successful in businessasculate them, only to find out that this person has done terrible things with their funds.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience welcome back to divorce diaries lessons from the trenches.
Speaker 3:I'm your host, carrie jacobson, and today we have an incredible guest joining us Beverly Price. Beverly is a nationally recognized divorce and empowerment coach who specializes in helping women navigate the emotional and the practical challenges of divorce. As the founder of Her Empowered Divorce, beverly empowered countless women to reclaim their strength, self-worth and independence during one of life's most challenging transitions. Beyond her commitment to individual empowerment and divorce, beverly is also driven by the profound mission to transform the landscape of domestic violence and domestic abuse. She is the visionary behind the Divorce Coalition, which is a coalition leading podcast host, divorce experts and domestic violence advocates united to illuminate the path of understanding, healing and resilience. By educating professionals within the realms of family law, family and criminal court and the legislative community, beverly aims to reduce the re-traumatization of abuse survivors in divorce. We are thrilled to have you on the show today, beverly. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for caring. You know I'm one of your biggest fans.
Speaker 3:Well, I appreciate it. I know it's been a while since we've had it, but I would love for you to share with our listeners a little bit about your background and what inspired you to focus on helping women and empowering them through the divorce process absolutely well.
Speaker 1:I've been a divorce coach for 30 years, before there is even such a thing. I started out helping women in transition, and divorce became a major part of that, and because I had been divorced more than once, I felt this connection to these women and I wanted to share with them what I had learned in my journey to come out the other side to have a fulfilling life. I also am a domestic abuse survivor myself, so I have a passion to help women going through domestic abuse, particularly those that are going through abuse and the divorce process, because that can be re-traumatizing.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and would you say that many of the clients and the women that you work with have had some experience with domestic abuse?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Now I will preface that by saying most people, or many people, think of domestic abuse as being hit right, being strangled, those kinds of things. But there's so many more forms. Most of the women that I see have experienced mental, emotional abuse where they have become so small and have lost themselves so much that the divorce process becomes unbearable to them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm sure also overwhelming in a lot of respects.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also I will also add in there there's quite a bit with financial abuse.
Speaker 3:I was going to bring that up as well. That's something that we often see with some of our clients, where financial abuse is definitely a component and can be very difficult because the women in that scenario may not necessarily have access to the financial resources to proceed through the divorce process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and actually what I found is it's the women that are successful in business maybe have advanced degrees, high up positions that are the most harmed by financial abuse, because in many cases, what they will have done is turn over all their finances to the spouse, thinking that that will help, not emasculate them, only to find out that this person has done terrible things with their funds.
Speaker 3:Right yeah. So how do you work with women in that scenario if they have limited access to funds to help them through the financial or the divorce process?
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. First we start picking their brain, finding out where things are where they might. Finding out where things are where they might when their spouse is gone, can they access and find information? Can they get documents from the IRS or documents from an investment person? Along with that is very, very strong effort on their emotional growth and how they feel about themselves. The lack of confidence, because in many cases they're also very frazzled. They are not believing in themselves, those kinds of things, so it also can make them paralyzed.
Speaker 3:Right, and so you help them kind of take one step at a time through that process Absolutely.
Speaker 1:We may have to do some work before then. The other thing that's very critical if a client is involved in any domestic abuse is if they make, and when they make, the decision to leave. It is critical that they have a safety plan, and they have a safety plan that they've worked on with an expert. And here's the sad statistic Over 70% of women who leave an abuser are murdered.
Speaker 3:That is shocking and so that you absolutely have to be safe Absolutely, and it does take, you know, working with an expert to create that safety plan so that they can, you know, protect themselves as well as their kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they can talk to their local shelter. They can call the domestic violence hotline, those types of things that can help them with that expertise Great.
Speaker 3:What role does self-empowerment play in the healing journey, both during the divorce process as well as after the divorce, and how can women you know begin to rediscover their sense of self-worth?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's absolutely critical, because most people that come to me are not empowered, are feeling small, lack confidence, don't believe in themselves, and they also may have been put down over the years through emotional abuse, so that they're not starting at ground zero, they're starting at minus 10. And so you have to do work with them to help them rise up, to help them see what is inside of themselves and to also help them heal and see that someone's doing it to them and it's not necessarily their fault.
Speaker 3:Great Now for our listeners who are not as familiar with divorce coaches. Can you briefly explain a little bit about how what you do as a coach is different than what they may experience with a therapist?
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. A very simple distinction is a therapist focuses backward in time in their life. A divorce coach focuses forward. So if someone has historical trauma, whether it be from childhood or an event later in life, that work needs to be done to help them be able to be empowered and to grow and to handle divorce. It's very important, for example, in negotiation in a divorce. It's very important when first interviewing an attorney. It is very important if they do go to court to move through that court process successfully. So there's so many aspects that that strength can help them if they grow. If they don't, in many cases what you see is people that throw their hands up and say you can have everything, or accept a really low ball offer that is going to be very troublesome for the rest of their life them for the rest of their life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we see that, unfortunately, sometimes where you know the process of the negotiations or the mediation is just so overwhelming that they're willing to put their potential financial future at risk and just give up, you know, just to get out of the situation. And you know, I know, that that is up to every person to make that decision and there are some times where that can be appropriate and necessary. But we want to make sure that those individuals are really feel like they can stand up for themselves and ask for what they need individuals are really feel like they can stand up for themselves and ask for what they need.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and part of that is showing them the tangible effect, right, what will their financial life look like from that point on? How is a, what does a budget look like if they give all that up? Can they survive without being married and particularly if they have children, how will they support their children in that? But I see that as well, just hoping to get it out. Or if the divorce has gone on so long and they're tired and worn out, that's another time you see that happening and that's where a divorce coach is so critical.
Speaker 1:Many people think that a divorce coach is a nice to have. I can't tell you. I've probably met hundreds of women that said, I wish I had known you before my divorce and I think you have to understand that a coach can help you. I liken it. I liken it to think of an operating room. You think of the surgeon who is the attorney, possibly the anesthesiologist, which is the coach and the financial perspective can be the operating room nurse, and it doesn't mean that those are at different levels, but it means that is absolutely the best combination you can have for a successful divorce. The other thing that yeah, the other thing a divorce coach does is, while an attorney focuses on the slice that's the legal and the financial focuses on the slice that's financial, a coach takes you through from beginning to end.
Speaker 3:Right and a coach. In many scenarios I think people are worried about the extra added cost, but I've found that in many scenarios a coach actually reduces cost because you know you're saving some of the higher billing time right with a coach versus handling it with your attorney or a financial professional.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what is one of the most common mistakes you see women make who are going through divorce process, and how can our listeners avoid that?
Speaker 1:Wow, there's's several. One is what we just talked about throwing up your hands and giving in the second. The second is that that consumes their thought process and they can't think clearly, and another is not listening to the experts and not having a well-rounded divorce team to help them.
Speaker 3:I would agree with all of the above. What are some steps that you advise? You know the clients that you're working with to better prepare before the divorce process and during the divorce process process and during the divorce process.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of things and that's what I coach women on. First, we talked about earlier, is gathering documents. Some of those may be easy to find, some of them may not. The second is protecting themselves technologically themselves technologically protecting emails, computers, shared access with computers, that kind of thing. I always encourage a woman to set up a separate email address that no one knows and even, in certain cases, go to the library and use a computer rather than using your one at home if the spouse is still in the house.
Speaker 3:That's a good point, Absolutely Having that security of the extra email where all of the divorce related information goes right so she can talk freely with whomever is on her team, but also that added layer of accessing that email outside the home. Absolutely Whether it's a library or wherever that might be.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I'm sure that communication with a soon-to-be ex-spouse in some situations, especially where there is that abuse you know within the relationship, is going to be fraught with tension. Are there any tips that you give your clients in having more constructive conversations?
Speaker 1:Well, the first part is are they afraid of their spouse? What's the degree of anger Kind of assessing their current emotional state If they're overwhelmed emotionally? There are different exercises. I believe that you want to teach a client, in terms of communication, that we want to communicate for results, not to communicate what we want to. Many clients and I'm sure you've seen it come in and write a 10 page dissertation about how the ex did her wrong. That's not going to matter to an attorney, to a judge, et cetera. So what we need to look at is focusing on only facts and focusing on documentation, and so when we do that, that's important.
Speaker 1:The other technique I use is some exercises to separate emotionally the woman from the ex so that when you're talking to them you're not feeling that fear. Others involve, let's say, in mediation, doing separate Zoom rooms I'm sure you're familiar with that and do communication only through attorneys, all of those types of things. But I think looking at the emotional state and working on that is critical. I tell many clients to envision a box with a lid and a lock on it and as they're moving into a room to negotiate, they open that box and they put all of their emotions in it. They close it and lock it. They go into the room and treat it like a business event If they want to. When they come out, they can take their emotions out can take their emotions out.
Speaker 3:That's a good visualization for people, yeah, so that they can think about it. In that respect, and I do agree that you know every situation is different as to whether or not the communication directly is going to be effective. And you know we always say the more direct communication in that is safe and that is healthy, the faster you can typically get to a resolution.
Speaker 3:Absolutely the faster you can typically get to a resolution. Absolutely, but there are scenarios where that's not going to be effective and it's going to make things more complicated, and so the third party, whether it's a mediator or using attorneys, can be a better result in bridging that communication gap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a couple of things on that, particularly if there's co-parenting involved is there are apps that you can use to communicate that are also documented if you need it. That's important. Another thing is not feeling like you have to respond instantly to text messages. Leave your phone, take a few minutes and then respond. That does a lot, because sometimes the text message you know sends you over the edge right and it puts your emotions in a heightened state 100%.
Speaker 3:It's setting boundaries both with yourself and with the other. Yeah, some of the apps that you know we recommend to clients probably one of the more well-known ones is Our Family Wizard yeah, there's Co-Parently, I believe and then you know there's various ones depending on what the needs are. Some have more you know features than others, and so you kind of have to play around to see which ones would fit your situation the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one I just learned about is called Best Interesting Co-Parenting. Oh, that's a new one.
Speaker 3:I'm not familiar with that one. So what are some of the most surprising and counterintuitive lessons you've learned from your work with women going through divorce?
Speaker 1:That's a tough question and a good question and a good question, I think, that people that think that their spouse will negotiate calmly and in both people's favor is one, because you know, if you think about it, divorce is a traumatic experience and you hear a lot of people say, well, my husband's a narcissist. Well, divorce can bring out some of the behaviors of narcissism, while they may not be a narcissistic person, and some of those behaviors, such as the spouse getting real sweet to you and talking nice to you and saying, oh, we can negotiate ourselves, we don't need an attorney, we don't need a mediator, we don't need an attorney, we don't need a mediator, and that's a.
Speaker 3:many people want to save cost and do things themselves. You know, the cautionary tale is you don't know what you don't know. And if you've not conversation with an attorney or someone else. You don't know. What you may be giving up Doesn't mean that you wouldn't otherwise give that up, even if you knew. But you have to have the information first in order to make that informed decision.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think that's so important because if something's hidden, you might not know about it. Particularly side businesses, business tax situations, those kinds of things can be tricky, right.
Speaker 3:And so at least having an attorney that you can talk to or review the agreement before you sign it, because once you sign it, you may not be able to undo some of those scenarios.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you are done.
Speaker 3:Right. Tell us about some of the resources and programs you offer through Her Empowered Divorce, and how can our listeners access that support?
Speaker 1:Sure, Well, I offer two things. I offer a assessment that's a brief let's talk about if your situation can be helped by coaching or a consultation. That's 90 minutes long, where we dig in a lot more to their costs. I work with them on major categories preparation, education, emotional work, negotiation and communication. So I'm more than your typical divorce coach that is just working on the emotions of the situation, because I believe every part of those is critical. The other thing that I two things I concentrate on when we we mentioned communication for results, that's, that's a biggie. And then I work a lot with preparation and a lot of people think they can just rush into it and there's a lot of work that has to be done in that regard.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think the more prepared people are, the more smoothly the negotiations, the mediations will go, and even if those people end up having to unfortunately go through litigation, the more prepared you are, the better outcome there typically is.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. They need a lawyer like you, carrie. Thank you, even though we do not do litigation.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. They need a lawyer like you. Carrie, thank you, even though we do not do litigation, so I know you have a podcast. Can you share with our listeners what they can expect with your podcast and?
Speaker 1:how they can tune in. It's called Her Empowered Divorce and I bring together people that touch on all the various areas of divorce, of preparing for divorce and of dealing with divorce, so it could be, for example, a lending professional, it could be a divorce financial analyst, attorneys, mediators financial analysts, attorneys, mediators, therapists that touch every one of the major areas involved in divorce to help educate women.
Speaker 3:Wonderful If you could offer one piece of advice to women who are currently going through divorce. What would that be?
Speaker 1:Oh wow. Don't rush into it without extensive preparation. Don't tell your spouse you want a divorce without planning to work with a divorce coach. I believe the conversation with the spouse is the most important conversation in the entire divorce, because the tone, the setting, all of those things are critical and if it's not done right, it sets the tone and can create a lot of hostility.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent agree with that. Well, Beverly, thank you so much for being here. How can our listeners connect with you and learn more about your work?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. They can go to her empowered divorcecom. That's my website. They can find everything out about me, about my services and about how I help women. If the Divorce Coalition really focuses on working with divorce professionals to change the divorce process to help abuse victims, it doesn't serve the individual survivor, it's serving the divorce professional to help change that. Because we found that most people think that divorce with abuse re-traumatizes the victim Right and that's divorcecoalitioncom.
Speaker 3:Yes, for any of our divorce professionals who may be listening. Beverly, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your insights today. Your work is truly making a difference in the lives of so many women and we're grateful for the opportunity to learn from you.
Speaker 2:For our listeners. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Yes, for our listeners. Please be sure to check out Beverly's website and her podcast for more valuable resources and stay tuned for our next episode of Divorce Diaries Lessons from the Trenches where we will continue to explore how to navigate the divorce process with grace and confidence. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thanks.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us today on this episode of divorce diaries. Remember every journey is unique, but you don't have to navigate it alone. Visit jacobsonfamilylawcom or call 443-726-4912 for support and guidance.