Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where host Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator brings you real stories, hard truths, and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it, or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence, and resilience.
Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
EP #12: Supporting Parents of Special Needs Children During Divorce with Guest Mary Ann Hughes
Divorce is a complex journey for any family, but it becomes even more challenging when special needs children are added to the mix. In this episode, host, Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator at Jacobson Family Law, delves into the nuances of divorce involving children with disabilities, drawing on expert insights from certified special needs divorce coach Mary Ann Hughes. Their conversation covers the unique difficulties these families face, from emotional turmoil to logistical hurdles in co-parenting.
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Generally I would not advise about a schedule that has too many transitions back and forth in one week because it takes a while to adjust, to get ready, mentally prepared to go to the next house and then settle down once you're in that house and get accustomed to it, and then there's a whole transition back to the other parent's house.
Speaker 1:So you don't want to have like a 2-3-2 schedule or whatever it might be called in your area where you're back and forth, back and forth schedule, or whatever it might be called in your area, where you're back and forth, back and forth.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the Trenches. I'm your host, keri Jacobson, and today we have a truly special guest, mary Ann Hughes. Mary Ann is a certified special needs divorce coach and the founder of Special Family Transitions. She's dedicated to supporting parents of children with disabilities as they navigate the overwhelming and complex process of special needs divorce. Her work empowers parents to advocate for their children's short and long-term needs, while ensuring that the best possible outcomes for their families. Marianne, thank you so much for coming to the show and welcome. Thank you, keri. My pleasure to be here. Thanks for their families. Marianne, thank you so much for coming to the show and welcome. Thank you, keri, my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me Absolutely. Can you share with our listeners what inspired you to kind of get into this specialized world of special needs divorce and how your own experience may have shaped that work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for asking that.
Speaker 1:So I'm here because I myself am a parent of two children with special needs, so my children, now young adults, are on the autism spectrum.
Speaker 1:I call them my kids, but they're in their early 20s now and they'll always be my babies. And so several years ago, when I faced divorce, I couldn't find resources to help me, and so I was able to do a lot of research and find a lot of experts and eventually did get a good result for my family. But I decided it was a lot of work for something that happens so often to families, for them to have to recreate the wheel and go through everything that I just did from scratch to try to figure out what to do during the process and advocate for my kids. So that's why I decided to become a divorce coach special needs focused and started my company Special Family Transitions and I'm honored to be one of the thought leaders in the field and support people as they're facing challenges, thinking about divorce or going through it or even afterwards. To support them, to help their kids navigate that and life afterwards. To support them. To help their kids navigate that and life afterwards.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Is there anything different about the divorce process when a family has children with disabilities? What are some of those unique challenges that those parents may be facing?
Speaker 1:Yes, the most important thing is that a child's needs are not going to end at age 18, which is typically when most divorce discussions really center around about. When they're 18, that's it, and then you're off and don't have to communicate with your ex spouse and not deal with the children's needs, maybe financially, afterwards. But that's different in the case where I call special needs divorce, because even though they may make a lot of progress, it's probably likely that the child, when they become an adult, is still going to need support. So it may look different depending on your situation, depending on the child and how they've developed, but most likely they're going to need continued support from one or both parents and hopefully both will contribute and be involved in that child's life.
Speaker 3:Yes, you know, even you know, 18 in many states is the cutoff for financial required support, Though there are some states that are, you know, into the early adulthood, depending on whether or not children go to college. But obviously, depending on those specific needs of a adult disabled child, they may or may not be able to be self-supporting and so sometimes that financial assistance is going to be required from parents.
Speaker 1:Right, right. In addition to that, it's important to work with people who understand what it takes to advocate for that child's needs, even as a minor, in terms of what to include, how to phrase things, so that in the future either now or in the future that child will be eligible for government benefits and other supports that they may lose if things aren't done the correct way. Yes, there's that added component of the programs and possibilities of outside resources that are out there financial divorce coaches, mental health professionals that can help support you and your family as you're going through this process.
Speaker 3:Are there any other legal or financial considerations that parents sometimes overlook when they're navigating a special needs divorce?
Speaker 1:Sure. So I like for clients to look at the long term. So sometimes people want to get done with a divorce and then deal with it later. I encourage people to think about what that may look like. As part of the divorce, maybe have discussions about who's going to be involved in the education, involved in the medical decision making, involved in planning and paying for that child in the future, whether or not they're still considered disabled because they're going to need some kind of support.
Speaker 1:One parent may have been the primary caregiver, may have been involved in those decisions or taken them to therapy, things like that, and so we want to make sure that both parents are comfortable with taking care of that child when it's their possession time. So, for instance, if one parent has been the primary financial provider, one parent's been the primary caregiver, then we want to make sure that both are valued in the process and in the discussion so that both are able to contribute in their own way. That makes sense. So maybe both parents are working, but maybe one parent has been taking more of the active role in terms of medicines or therapies or things like that. So we want to get the other parent up to speed and comfortable so that the child also feels safe and comfortable in both homes 100%.
Speaker 3:Obviously, divorce is overwhelming for any person going through it, any parent. But if you have a child with special needs, I'm sure that that stress can be even more overwhelming. How do you support parents that are going through that process?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So first of all, you have to know they're not alone.
Speaker 1:So, sadly, families with a child with some kind of disability or special need face a greater likelihood of their marriage ending than, say, a typical divorce. And so with that, we have to understand the reasons why, so that we can either prevent that from happening. Prevent that from happening or, if it's happening already, try to do it in a positive fashion as much as we can, so that it's done where the child's needs are taken to account and where both parties everybody's respected and heard, because the co-parenting relationship is not going to end when they turn 18. You're gonna have to communicate, even more so than if you had a typically developing child, because you're going to have to update the parent as to needs or situations that may be occurring, ways to address certain issues or behavior challenges, challenges or medical challenges day to day, as well as planning for the future. So you want to, as much as you can, have a good relationship with your soon tobe ex-spouse or ex-spouse so that you can effectively co-parent and that the child then is not in the middle and feeling that conflict.
Speaker 3:Are there any particular strategies that parents can use to minimize the emotional impact of divorce on their special needs children, you know, especially those who I'm thinking younger kids, but it could be older that struggle with changes in their routine or their environment?
Speaker 1:Right? That's a great question, because kids on the autism spectrum, no matter what age they are, have a hard time dealing with change in their routine and who they're around and their surroundings, and so I had a hard time finding people to help me, to help my kids, in the process. So what I ended up doing was creating what they call a social story, with some people who have autistic kids may be familiar with, but it's basically a narrative that's done at the child's level, whether or not they can read. You can use pictures, you can use words or combination to explain in a supporting, loving fashion what is happening to that family and what they can expect, cause they really want to know, you know, end of the day, kind of what's what happens to me and where will I be and when will I be at each parent and what's going to change in my life. So we want to do things slowly, transition slowly, if we can, into the changes that are going to be happening and and then expose them, introduce them to what they can expect.
Speaker 1:So, for instance, in my social story, I did it in a very loving way. I had pictures of me with the kids, with the whole family, and then I explained that my dad and I are going to live in different homes and you're going to visit them in different homes. So I had a picture. Dad sent me a picture of what his new home was going to look like, what the room would look like, so they could mentally prepare for that, and so they were able to take that and read it, have it read to them, and even one child when appropriate. They took it to school for his teacher in his special education class to go over with him.
Speaker 1:So I would definitely involve the community. So, for instance, teachers or therapists or whoever helps is in that village, support that child, let them be aware of what's happening so they can understand, maybe changes that the child is experiencing in terms of maybe they're not themselves or they're showing aggression or regression or some academic challenges they can understand maybe why things are happening. So if they have an insight of what's happening at home of course you don't want to share everything, but just enough so that they're aware of what's happening and can support that child as well.
Speaker 3:I like the idea of that social story, so that it can be something that that child can understand on his or her level and can prepare for what's going to come next. How about custody access schedules? Are there certain schedules that you, you know, think are more appropriate for children of special needs, or things that parents should consider when they are creating their custody schedule?
Speaker 1:Sure. So I would say depends on the child and the situation, how far apart maybe the parents live and how well they're getting along. But generally I would not advise about a schedule that has too many transitions back and forth in one week, because it takes a while to adjust, to get ready, mentally prepared to go to the next house and then settle down once you're in that house and get accustomed to it and then there's a whole transition back to the other parent's house. So you don't want to have like a two, three, two schedule or whatever it might be called in your area where you're back and forth, back and forth, because imagine if you're going from place to place a hotel to hotel on business, that's hard and it's it's hard for the child.
Speaker 1:So to have as much consistency as we can, you know, maybe have, depending on your situation, some people do one week on, one week off, some people might work better to maybe the school days, or most of the school days, stay with maybe one parent and maybe have weekends or extended weekends with the other parent, and a schedule that maybe doesn't interfere and is less of a concern for the kids going back and forth, so they feel comfortable. You know in one home where their belongings are and they don't have to worry about. You know where am I going to do homework today? Things like that, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm sure that it depends on. You know each individual child, even when we're talking about neurotypical children. You know their mannerisms, how they handle transitions. You know it varies from one child to the next. Also depends on their age, so there's lots of factors that will play a part in what the custody, you know the most appropriate access schedule should be.
Speaker 1:Right. I would say, though, make it a positive experience when you're having the transitions to the other parent. We want to give them time and also, when they come back, to let them decompress, maybe to get back to their old routine. So, even though you want to try to have as consistent routines as possible between homes, if you can Granted, each parent is going to parent a little bit differently, but it's great to have like visual schedules and have things as consistent as we can so that the transitions become not as impactful to the kids.
Speaker 3:Are there any key elements for a strong parenting plan in a special needs divorce? You know we've already talked a little bit about the custody schedules, but are there other things that parents should be kind of thinking about when they're putting together that parenting plan?
Speaker 1:Sure. So I'd say as much as you can allow for flexibility, so say you know you've got therapies or trips or so on. We don't want to be so focused on this is my time versus your time or I can't be involved. So where you can, if it makes sense, be flexible in that and the way you write that and the way you adhere to your plan. Cases I've seen that have the more conflict are the ones where people are not willing to be flexible and negotiable in terms of that. So it's going to look different once again for every family, but definitely leave the line of communications open. Have it where each child can communicate with each parent, even during the other parenting time and vice versa. So, whether you're speaking in person or having parenting apps or whatever system you're using for your family so that the child knows that they can reach out to both parents for support. But yet you know they know that this is mom's time and this is dad's time and respect it that way as well.
Speaker 3:I agree that, you know. I think it's just setting up boundaries and expectations for everyone, so that everyone's on the same page with how that's going to be accomplished whether it's going to be, you know, through FaceTime videos or some sort of video call, whether it's going to be, you know, text messaging or whatever the case may be, but just making sure everybody's on the same page with what that's going to look like.
Speaker 1:Right. One thing I would add also is that for children that can, that are verbal or different ways of expressing themselves, this is a great opportunity to teach them to advocate for themselves and to share with the other parent what works for them, what doesn't work for them, so that way there's less conflict there too, because that's the biggest lesson I think that our children can take away from this is the example that we set as role models and things that they're able to do within their control that maybe, like you said, because of boundaries, maybe the other parent can't necessarily do For that child. If they're not verbal and not able to, then that's based on different flavor. For those that can express themselves, then I think that's a very great skill to learn and be able to apply, not just with the other parent but also in life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good point, yeah, good point. Switching gears slightly, what role does the financial planning play in these special needs divorce cases Particularly? We've talked about future expenses, whether that's medical care, therapies and maybe even guardianship arrangements. How do the finances come into play in this scenario?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they play a big part, because that's what keeps parents up at night is what's going to happen to my child and how am I going to pay for these things that they're going to need now and throughout their lifetime? And so that's. We want to get a special needs focused financial planner, one who understands that. There's ones of certain designations, there's charter special needs consultants that have gone through training, and a lot of them have family connections with people who have disabilities, special needs, and so you want to look at it kind of like a life care plan, where you're thinking about what does a child need now, but what do they need in the future? So that way you can come up with numbers and come to agreements on what's an appropriate amount for child support, what's an appropriate amount for property division, different things like that.
Speaker 1:And also looking at life insurance. How do we, you know, pass our lifetime? Or something happens to one parent who can no longer either physically take care of the child or pay for the additional supports and financial obligations? How is that going to be covered in the future, when they're older and you have other needs as well? So we want to look at life insurance. We want to also consider and this is part financial part the legal side in terms of, maybe, estate planning attorneys. How do we set things up, like you said, for guardianship, for trust, so that they do maintain eligibility. They're not penalized for having money in their name? So in the US currently the cap is $2,000 for what a child can have in their name and still be eligible for a lot of programs and benefits, and so we make sure that child support is paid correctly, especially when they're over 18, and inheritance and life support, life insurance, things like that that go into the right kind of trust so that the child does maintain the eligibility for things like that in the future.
Speaker 3:Lots of different pieces to consider. Are there particular resources or professionals that you would recommend parents consult with to help them through that creation of a comprehensive plan?
Speaker 1:Sure so. So first step, I would say definitely go out and find a special needs certified divorce coach. There are several of us out there who want to help inspire the program and also teach that, so there are more and more that are going to be available and have that knowledge. But also make sure that you're working with a team of people, whatever they are, that has this experience. But what I've done with a colleague of mine, susan Bernstein, who's also a certified special needs divorce coach, is we just put together a new website called Divorce for Special Needs Children and with that we're trying to share resources there.
Speaker 1:Who are the people who have experience who can help you in these situations? Because I knew that was my hardest thing. For me was trying to find people who understood this, who could create those reports, create, share information, share about next steps and so now honored to now be able to share that with others. So we have people there from mediators to financial planners, mental health professionals and other areas that people will need either before, during or even after divorce for support with the family and future planning issues.
Speaker 3:That sounds like a great resource, kind of like a directory of sorts for people who may touch on all of those various aspects that parents may need.
Speaker 1:Exactly Like you said. You don't know what you need until you actually start the process, and so as a divorce coach, we can help you kind of through that. But yeah, definitely want to work with people who are experts in their field to make sure that you've dialed your I's and crossed your T's so that later you're not taken by surprise or having to go back and make modifications when maybe it wasn't considered in the first place, and not to say that you can't do that later. For instance, if a child is diagnosed later or if you didn't have the ongoing child support or other things that you didn't know you needed or were aware that you could do, then definitely you can go back and work with somebody to make that happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in your experience, what would you say is one common mistake you've seen people that you are working with make during the divorce process, and what can our listeners do to avoid that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one is we don't want to rush into anything, so take your time first of all. Kind of deal with the emotional side of divorce before you're going to it and make business decisions that are going to impact you and your kids, uh, for a long time. But I would say, uh, always put the child's needs first. Granted, that's what we all want to do and that's the intent, but sometimes along the way you may get into a process, depending on the type of law we have or the type of the way the divorce may be started off maybe on the wrong foot, where who are focused on negative things and not focusing on the child and their future. So we want to look at this as how can we work together as parents, even though we disagree on some things? We may not get along, for whatever reason, things have happened to cause a relationship, but what can we do together to plan for the kids? And that's the approach that I would promote.
Speaker 1:Is that how can we plan together?
Speaker 1:Because, as we talked about, there's a lot of things that go into play to plan for a child's future, and we can't do it alone, and or it's better if we, both parents, are involved.
Speaker 1:Sadly, sometimes one parent is totally out of the picture and that's sad but it does happen. But the hope is that both parents will continue to be involved in some form or fashion and depending on your situation, that may look different, but depending on what your child needs and how can we work together to make sure that that child can grow to the best of their ability. So I say, hope for the best for your child, but also plan for the worst. So sometimes people don't think about disability, they don't want to acknowledge that, they don't want to see that as a really issue in their divorce or really it needs to be, because if you're going to go back and modify and it hasn't been discussed or even in this your initial paperwork, that may be harder to go back and fix later. So we want to at least have some mention of it in the great documentations and petitions and whatnot, um, so that later, um, it becomes a similar process for everybody.
Speaker 3:Great advice For those of our listeners who may be divorce professionals. What can they you know, whether they're attorneys, financial planners or therapists what can they do to better support those families with special needs who are going through divorce process?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so every family is different, the situation is different. Every, as they say, every child with autism is different, and so take time to understand that family's needs, what's important to them, what is their child, that child or young adult, whoever it may be, what are their needs and what do we need to address what's important to them? Kind of get your client maybe to share a life in the day so you can get a better understanding of what those challenges really are. Maybe when, when they can't maybe articulate it top of their head when they're first asked about it as a client, maybe if they think about okay, well, these are all the things I have to do for my child, all the things I have to pay for, then it puts maybe a different perspective on it for everybody to understand. Really, what are we looking for, what are the supports out there and how can, as a professional, can I help this family so that after divorce, everyone's in a good place?
Speaker 3:That's great advice. I appreciate that. Marianne. It's been so nice to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for your insightful information and conversation. I know our listeners will gain so much from your expertise. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you and so that they can access your resources?
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, so my social media and my website are all called Special Family Transitions and on my website website there's a link to a form to send me an email happy to do a complimentary consultation. And yeah, I do all kinds of podcasts and presentations and seminars to get the information out there so people can get uh, it's a head start and kind of know what to think about. But definitely we're here to help all of us in the community and even to help and support the professionals that maybe haven't had as much experience in this area. So definitely, as a co-director of the National Association of Divorce Professionals, we bring in speakers all the time to educate professionals in divorce in this area and so definitely, as a professional, you're always welcome to attend our meetings as well.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for that. Thank you again for joining us and to our listeners if you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, leave us a review and share it with someone that you, that who may need your support. Until next time, take care and be kind to yourself. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us today on this episode of Divorce Diaries. Remember every journey is unique, but you don't have to navigate it alone. Visit jacobsonfamilylawcom or call 443-726-4912 for support and guidance.