Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where host Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator brings you real stories, hard truths, and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it, or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence, and resilience.
Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
EP #14: Divorce Strategies from a Coach's Perspective with Guest Chris Stuart
Divorce can blindside you with emotional turmoil that makes rational decision-making nearly impossible. Join host, Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator, as she sits down with Chris Stuart, a divorce coach and entrepreneur as he discusses his own high-conflict divorce. He found himself $100,000 in legal fees before even seeing a judge, uncertain how to navigate the process, and struggling to maintain his relationship with his child. This transformative experience led him to create a new approach to divorce support.
Whether you're contemplating divorce, currently navigating one, or supporting someone who is, this episode provides essential strategies for maintaining clarity during life's most challenging transitions. Connect with Chris at cstuart@divorcetom.com or look for his upcoming nationwide Divorce Support Network launching soon.
Visit jacobsonfamilylaw.com to learn more.
Visit jacobsonworkshop.com to learn more.
OK, a divorce coach. We work with therapists because we understand that our clients do need some of that. You know that mental health clarity. We, on the other hand, we don't go back, we go forward. So my understanding is to you know, to create the awareness for you so you understand exactly the position you're in today. We're not going my time and your time together. We're going to understand why we're here today and what we need to do to move forward the right way.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Keri Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to divorce diaries lessons from the trenches. I'm your host, Carrie Jacobson, and today we are going to be welcoming Chris Stewart. He is a seasoned expert guiding individuals through the divorce process. We'll talk about some key aspects of divorce, including the business side of the process, shifting perspectives and managing conflict. Thank you so much for being here today, Chris.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Keri. I'm happy to be here today.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. Well, before we dive in, can you tell our listeners, share a little bit about your journey and what led you to working in this divorce space?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I've been an entrepreneur for about 17 or 18 years of my adult life, many different injuries that I've been a part of. I experienced my divorce in 2018, which was a very traumatic divorce very high conflict, very just, so to speak, about a seven figure divorce and just the turn. So you know, I had a child involved and so it really flipped my life upside down and I had to really understand how to navigate this new chapter and and really I had to do it on my own. So when I got to the point where I could sell my companies in 2022, 2023, I said that this is really what I want to do is I want to get in back into the space and help individuals like myself and everyone else that just really didn't know what to do, and do things the right way.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I'm sure going through that experience of such a high conflict divorce changed your perspective on how things could be improved.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I had no idea what I was in for and I did what everybody else did, right, you know you understanding a separation and you just go and hire the, you know whoever recommends an attorney. So I had to go get a high profile attorney before I knew it. I'm, you know it's a fifty thousand dollar retainer at eight hundred an hour, and I'm I haven't even seen a judge yet and I'm already in one hundred thousand dollars and I'm going on. You know my child's being weaponized to me and like I'm not being able to see my child like I'm supposed to, and so I just I had no idea like going into this. It was just, you know this, this, I guess, just such a struggle, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you had to do it over again, would you have hired the same type of attorney at the outset, or would you have taken a different approach?
Speaker 1:I would hire a coach. I would hire a coach and I had no idea what coaching was, and most people today in 2025, don't understand what divorce coaching actually do. Today, in 2025, don't understand what divorce coaching actually do. So I actually went in and got educated for nine months to actually be able to help everybody in the divorce space. So I would have gone back and I would have hired a coach.
Speaker 1:I would have mentally been able to compartmentalize exactly what I needed to do without all the emotional trauma trying to make the right decision. And so having a coach would have that support where you can kind of create options of going into what type of you know attorney do I need that fits my financial budget and what this picture is going to look like. And then, how do you want to structure the rest of your weeks and months and years going through this process and also collectively. Like I didn't know what parenting plans were about, I didn't know you know what alimony, child support, spousal support and then all these questions and subpoenas just didn't have all the you know understanding and every time I'd sit with my attorney it would be this is what we're doing. This is what we're doing. I didn't really have a plan. So I was kind of mercy of my, my attorney. So I would have hired a coach, so I would have had you know, I would have been organized and prepared for my attorney meets and for the rest of my divorce.
Speaker 3:I think that is definitely a good approach. By hiring that coach, they can kind of help guide you through the different pieces that the divorce is going to entail and give you information so that you can make those decisions instead of kind of flying by the seat of your pants, so to speak, in making those decisions kind of ad hoc, those decisions kind of ad hoc Right.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's the biggest thing that most everyone that I've ever been in contact with you know they show up for a divorce highly emotional, and you know what that's. That's understandable You're supposed to be. You know, this is a life changing event and most people don't make the right decisions when they're emotional. You know, especially. You know I've seen so many people. It's like they just do this because they're angry or they do this because they're upset. And I'm like, okay, and you're understanding, you just spent $50,000 in attorney's fees and you're upset at your attorney. It's not your attorney's fault, you're the one doing this, but you need someone there to kind of baseline you out and have a professional outlook on this so you can create the best options for you, absolutely.
Speaker 3:What do you tell potential clients when because I always get asked this what is the difference, from your perspective, of a divorce coach versus a therapist?
Speaker 1:Great question and I have to educate that you know pretty much every day. Right, there's two sides of this. You have therapy, you have coaching.
Speaker 3:Ok are they the same?
Speaker 1:No, they're not the same but they coincide in the same manner. You know they are licensed professionals, mental health professionals. Some have the ability to actually prescribe medication if, if they have that, you know that licensure OK. Normally you're going all the way back to the root of the problem to get an understanding of why you're actually standing here today. What actually led up to this? What could I have done differently? Okay, a divorce coach.
Speaker 1:We work with therapists because we understand that our clients do need some of that mental health clarity. We, on the other hand, we don't go back, we go forward. So my understanding is to you know, to create the awareness for you. So you understand exactly the position you're in today. We're not going my time and your time together. We're going to understand why we're here today and what we need to do to move forward the right way. So I love working with therapists.
Speaker 1:I share all my clients that, hey, at least get a consult. You never know, especially men. Men are tough to crack. I don't need a therapist, I have you. No, if I'm recommending someone, that's me telling you you pretty much need to, at least to try it out. We are professionals in the process of divorce, so we understand exactly expected obstacles and unexpected obstacles that can show up in a divorce. So we create options, so you're ready for anything and it's thrown at your way, so that you are prepared and we understand the paperwork. We understand what you're possibly going to be, how we need to prepare you for mediation and preparing you for your attorney meets. Because you're an attorney, you love your clients to show up prepared and ready to go. You don't have to pull out information. Yes, you're getting paid by the hour, but it makes better sense of your time and your client's time if they're prepared on the front end of your time and your client's time if they're prepared on the front end.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent agree. The one thing that I would say is that most attorneys do charge by the hour, and so clients have an incentive to be prepared. Our office actually takes a different approach and we actually charge a flat fees basis.
Speaker 1:So because so much better so much better.
Speaker 3:it's better for the client in knowing that they know exactly what to expect. I find that it helps our clients also be encouraged to communicate with us, because they don't have to worry about the fact that they're going to be charged for every email or phone call or meeting with us, so we get the information necessary to help them get to their goals.
Speaker 1:I commend you guys for doing that because I think most law firms need to really circle back and look at that structure. I just you know and I get it. You know you go to school and this is what. But you know you make an oath to do what's best for your client. It's not good for you if you make your client makes $80,000 a year to have an $80,000 attorney bill because it's five years to recoup their life, not to assets and savings and everything else are losing. So I really you know, I can appreciate, you know that method of how you take care of your clients and that's very beneficial.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. The other thing that I would equate the divorce coach to and like the therapy analysis is very much what I think of as like mediation versus litigation. Mediation is kind of like that divorce coach we're looking at what the problem is now and how are we going to solve it for the future. How can we put in place structure so that you have a framework to work for towards the future, versus litigation, where the court's looking at or the judge is looking at, well, what were all the things that happened previously and how did you get here? And that's how we're going to make the determination. So I don't think most people kind of think of it that way, but I think that when you said that you know the looking back versus where we are now reminded me of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I still have therapists that I can really appreciate them working together, actually moving forward with me, because I'm on the process development side, the attorneys handling the legalities and helping them mentally, you know, get over certain traumatic issues. You know I can walk people through and help shift some perspective. But I'm a professional knowing if someone's better to meet these needs. I'm putting you in the game Like let's go, you know, because as a team we can all help our clients.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent, and I do think it does take that divorce team to fully support the client. Correct support the client Correct. So I know you know obviously divorce is a very emotional process, as you kind of alluded to before, but there's also a significant business aspect to it. How do you work with your clients to approach divorce with that business mindset, to protect their interest?
Speaker 1:So normally in the first few meets, you know that I meet with my clients. You know I understand that I meet everybody and really they're they're really panic state, right, it's the fear of the unknown. I have no idea what I need to do next. And this is really the fears. As adults, you know, if we have children, we fear for a lot of things, but now the uncertainty facts you have no idea. The next step you make is very important. So it's very critical for you to look at this a different way Now. If you're going into a divorce alone and you just hire an attorney, that attorney does not understand exactly how you're feeling and what you really, what you really want today for this divorce you may want, tomorrow it may be different, because you have no idea and you're, you have 10,000 thoughts. So what I do is I sit my clients down and we start forecasting out. You know, in a perfect world, this is where we would like to be. How are we going to and taking the proper steps to get there.
Speaker 1:So you know most of the people as a business, if you're a successful business owner and the reason why you are successful business owners because you make the right business decisions. Most people, especially in larger corporations. There's no emotions in business. So I have to sit here and talk to my clients and kind of get them to understand how to think differently, that say, hey look, disagreement just of marriage doesn't work out. Ok, now we have to go into the divorce phase. How are you going to show up? How are we going to do this where you can think clearly? Because, yes, I know your spouses, you think they're evil and nasty to you and they may be doing bad things to you currently, but the ball is in your court and you can only can control what you can control. So, processing different things.
Speaker 1:So, strategies you know most people have no strategy going into a divorce. Okay, we're going to eliminate and we're going to, you know, put perspective issues that could be up on the table. You know what, if they come at you with this for a parenting plan, here's other options to kind of counter, and this is where we need to be, so really getting them to focus on. Hey, I understand, I'm really in a tough spot, but I need to think about all you know aspects of this divorce. I don't want to act this way, because if I act this way, what's the reaction. And then so we start going through kind of all the options and the kind of the steps through the divorce process so it allows them to be in control of their divorce.
Speaker 1:I'm not telling my clients what to do, you know, and attorneys don't tell them what to do. They just say, hey, is this what you want to do? And if you say yes, then they're going to roll with it. That might not be what. So getting them to where they are in full control of what they want to do and if it doesn't go their way for this option, create another option that they can work with and that they can believe in and they can work through. So business decisions really come. It's keeping your emotions in check and looking down the road of what's going to benefit me and, if I have children, what's going to benefit my children down the road.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely having that. Looking at the divorce in the perspective of a business deal, understanding that it is difficult to sometimes control those emotions, but knowing that doing so often will reduce the you know the stress around the divorce process. It often will reduce the how long the divorce process takes and then therefore typically will reduce the financial impact the divorce process takes and then therefore typically will reduce the financial impact the divorce is often going to have. If you can kind of keep those emotions in check.
Speaker 1:It's so bad too, right, because think about it going to the gym.
Speaker 1:You know, body has. You know December or December, january the 1st, I'm going to, I'm going to look good again, right, you go to the gym for two months and then it kind of tapers off because life happens. You have a trainer or you're in a group or somebody that is waiting on you to arrive and you'll work out together. There's a sense of accountability there too. So it's also and it's hard, because we're in this, we're emotional, we have to, and that's there's nothing wrong with it. You just have to acknowledge it and have to say all right, I'm glad I have some support here. I need some help because I'm struggling. What do we need to do? So that also helps too.
Speaker 3:I absolutely agree, Chris. What would you say? In your experience is one common mistake you've seen clients people make during their divorce process, and how can our listeners avoid that?
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, the most common mistake. Well, typically the most common mistake, I think the first way is people don't understand that there's other resources out there. First way is people don't understand that there's other resources out there. So first common mistake is they went and they hired an attorney and they haven't seen a judge and they don't understand what's going on. And then they find a coach. They're like I've been with this attorney for three months and this is the direction, and there's really no direction. They're just waiting. So I see that as a common mistake. So by three months you would already have a plan in place, you'd already have X, y, z and be ready to kind of kind of seize this divorce. So that is a common problem.
Speaker 1:I also see people really manipulating the divorce for power. I think power is really a really big issue in divorce because you know especially. You know and I'm not saying men or women, because I've seen both sides, but power is. So I feel like you have all this power and you're making all these decisions, but neither one of them are going to be beneficial for you or your spouse, especially if you have children. So I think the concept of power is really something that people need to understand about. It's okay. If they want to make these decisions in a divorce, that's fine, we can let them. If it's certain topics that we can just let go, because I mean, right, there's people that fight over dogs. They spend $20 over dogs or a boat or whatever. They just do not want to give up. That literally costs them $25,000 to fight and the outcome may be the same.
Speaker 1:Right, you see a lot of common trends on all those so common mistakes. I feel like there's so many that people just are not prepared, you know to to show up and say look, you know, my ex or my spouse is dropping my child off 30 minutes every day and you're sitting there wearing your attorney out over the weekend, every weekend, and, like you said earlier, you're most charged by the hour $75 email and text per text. You just spent $900 every weekend just because he's late. Right, can we not talk about how we can communicate with your spouse to say, hey, if you're having trouble getting here, I can meet you.
Speaker 1:Another, you know, meet you down the road. I can try to come to you, but people don't look at. Nope, I'm staying right here because this is what the parenting plan says, right? So there's a lot of. There's so many common mistakes and I think, basically, if you have the right team in place, that's going to help you create healthier decisions. You're going to spend a lot less money, especially if you have children. It's going to be better on your children because you're going to be a better person and a better, a better parent.
Speaker 3:And that's so important, especially when you have children is making sure that you are protecting them from the conflict that's happening between you and their other parent. Correct, correct. So I know that you do some work with businesses as well. Employers. Can you share a little bit more about what your involvement is with that in the divorce space?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Being a business owner, I've actually employed quite a few people in my life and I've experienced divorce with employees a long time ago, a lot, of, a lot of issues along the way. You know, in my, in my issue, it was like they had trouble working, they had trouble performing, they had trouble, you know, with other issues as far as financial issues. So I saw that firsthand. So when I got my first client it was a big hospital organization I helped the administrator get through the divorce and she was the one that really put it on the table. She was like Chris, what you're doing with me's phenomenal and I think you could help institutions all over, you know, and that this is a service that's out there and I was like, well, absolutely, I mean, I would love to look at that and I always researched it. It was like an insurance EAP based, right, but I found a way around it. I created some PowerPoints. I got with wellness, but I found a way around it. I created some PowerPoints. I got with wellness. There's an EAP and a wellness side, but working together with both created a certain type of contract to where I can go in and employees have you know, they have support immediately. I'll give you a short example.
Speaker 1:I with this actual hospital the second weekend after the marketing material came out, I had a neurosurgeon. He emailed me at 830 on a Thursday evening so I got the notification and it was urgent. So I called him back and he was, I mean, in a state of panic. I've never heard Like he was going 2000 miles an hour, talked to him for about two hours. So he was a neurosurgeon, he just got served divorce papers and he had a 6 am 8 year old cancer mass and a brain mass that he had to do a resection for. The success rate of this kid is going to pass away or live and or qualify for trials or radiation chemo. He would not been able to perform, if this you know. So we talked for two hours.
Speaker 1:My focus was for him to focus on his job. Number one, you and I will sit down. I promise we can do this because he had 2000 questions. So my focus was on his work. So I said look, how long is this surgery? Because it's anywhere from 10 hours to 14 hours, all me after you're done. Number one, I want to know how you did, how it worked out, you know, within the HIPAA guidelines, just knowing if it's successful or not. And then let's talk about what we're going to do with this. So, and I sent him a long email about kind of how to process this and you know, so called me success rate.
Speaker 1:And then I met him on a Saturday and he just basically said, chris, I wouldn't have been able to do this if I didn't talk to you. And that to me, what kind of validated what I do. Right, that for me, getting someone who's literally on the ledge and freaked out to max capacity, who wouldn't have been able to perform that surgery, because I was like, what are you gonna? What would you have done? He goes I really do not know what I would have done if I would have done it, gone through doing it or tried to get another professional to fly in and do it.
Speaker 1:So it's very with the institutions understanding, especially hospitals, right, we need, we need our, our health care providers to be on point. Right, our loved ones, you know, we know, with divorce becomes lack of sleep. You have multiple court dates, so you have absenteeism. You know you have low performance. You could have substance abuse issues, all of which lead to an institution, especially hospitals. You're going to get sued. Yeah, action rate which that's where your money comes from is going to go down.
Speaker 1:So just not just institutions. It's the same way in corporate 500 companies. It's the same way with government municipalities. Everybody is performing at a high level. Everybody is performing at a high level.
Speaker 1:So why is an institution? Would you not want to give a lifeline out to your employees so they know kind of what they need to do to start the process and to keep them on working at that high level? You're not funding their divorce. Very small piece of the puzzle is they're just getting us started for us to do what we can do to help them provide with resources and a direction, and then after that it's on them if they want to hire us to fulfill the rest of their divorce. And it's the end. You know, right now I'm within nine institutions across the country. I have three municipalities and I have two corporate 500 companies and I have two corporate 500 companies and I've also created that I'll be launching in 30 days is the only divorce support network nationwide that will provide resources for professionals and for everyday people in these cities looking for, and it's going to be a big platform, so it will be accessible for everyone to use, so I'm really excited about that too.
Speaker 3:That sounds amazing and I agree that having that you know support there will help these employees be better at their jobs and be able to continue to focus and hopefully get through the process with less stress.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean, and we you know, as employees, you're paid to do a job, right? We never. When we got hired on, there wasn't a question that said is there a possibility you're going to be divorced one day? That's not there, so it's. One of those things is, as an institution, institution need to be prepared for when your employees are struggling and there's a way for them to provide that help, because all it's going to do is reinvest money back into your institution, no matter what trade it is.
Speaker 3:Right, yes, well, thank you so much, chris. How can our listeners connect with you and learn more about your work, as well as this network that you are putting together?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So you can reach me. Cstuart, that's S-T-U-A-R-T at divorcetomcom. You can reach me. That's my universal email. You can reach me. That's my universal email. Will be the divorce support network should be launched, hopefully within the next 30 days, and that will be. You could just go under and Google divorce support and it's going to be a very universal platform. So everyone in the country will have access in these certain cities to if you are the divorcee or your post divorce, even looking for help, if you are the divorcee or you're post-divorce even looking for help, whether that's just someone to talk to or if you need a professional to go back or to move forward in your divorce. So that's the best way to reach me. I'm on LinkedIn. You can reach me on LinkedIn, just you know. Go into Chris Stewart, divorce Coach, and I'm happy to work with you know anybody that needs my help.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for sharing your insights today. Of course, it can absolutely be overwhelming, and having the right strategies and support can make all the difference To our listeners. If you found today's episode valuable, please subscribe and share with anyone who may benefit. Until next time, remember knowledge is power and you're not alone in this process.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us today on this episode of Divorce Diaries. Remember every journey is unique, but you don't have to navigate it alone. Visit jacobsonfamilylawcom or call 443-726-4912 for support and guidance.