Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where host Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator brings you real stories, hard truths, and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law. Whether you're going through it, considering it, or just curious, this is your place for clarity, confidence, and resilience.
Divorce Diaries: Lessons From the Trenches
EP # 25: Documenting Abuse: Tools for High-Conflict Divorce with Guest Tiffany Colburn
Documenting the invisible battles of divorce can be your strongest defense against ongoing manipulation and control. Join host, Cary Jacobson, attorney and mediator with Jacobson Family Law, as she sits down with divorce coach, Tiffany Colburn. Tiffany reveals how proper documentation becomes not just preparation for potential court appearances, but a crucial tool for recognizing harmful patterns in high-conflict co-parenting relationships.
Remember that with proper documentation, clear boundaries, and strategic communication, you can protect your peace even when things feel chaotic. Connect with resources like myhiddenscars.com to develop the tools needed to navigate high-conflict co-parenting while keeping your children's wellbeing at the center.
Visit jacobsonfamilylaw.com to learn more.
Visit jacobsonworkshop.com to learn more.
Visit jacobsonfamilylaw.com to learn more.
Visit jacobsonworkshop.com to learn more.
The documentation is probably one of the biggest things, and I know that when I left my ex-husband, people kept telling me to document it, but nobody told me what that looked like or what it meant. I have discovered over the years how important it is preparing for court and also even just watching for certain things, even just watching for certain things.
Intro/Close:Welcome to Divorce Diaries, where attorney Cary Jacobson brings you real stories, hard truths and practical advice on navigating divorce and family law, whether you're going through it, considering it or just curious. This is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience. This is your place for clarity, confidence and resilience.
Cary Jacobson:Welcome back to Divorce Diaries Lessons from the Trenches. I'm your host. Cary Jacobson attorney, mediatorbe ex-spouse is determined to drag you back in. That's where today's conversation becomes important and survivor. Who helps people navigate the emotional abuse and post-separation control that often goes along unseen in the legal system? Tiffany helps clients document strategically, co-parent with difficult exes and move forward with clarity even when the odds seem stacked against them. Tiffany, thank you so much for being here. I am glad to get your perspective today.
Tiffany Colburn:Good morning. Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to talk to you.
Cary Jacobson:Awesome. I always like to start with our guests, their story. What led them to the place where they are now and working in this divorce space. So what inspired you to do this work so?
Tiffany Colburn:I spent 20 years with my ex-husband and it took me almost 20 years to discover that I was being abused. I wasn't being abused in a way that we see on TV or in the movies, and I was lucky enough to come across an amazing therapist that taught me and opened my eyes to what some of the hidden signs of abuse are and what hidden abuse is. Course of control things like that, and that's as I was leaving my marriage. I didn't have anybody to lean on. I spent a lot of time and a lot of money reaching out to my lawyer, and while I love my lawyer and I think that lawyers are a great asset you don't have all the answers either, and as well being charged every quarter of an hour for an email going oh my gosh, I don't know how to handle this. I it wasn't working for me and my therapist was great, but she couldn't always meet me where I was at either, so I try and be a bridge between the two situations.
Cary Jacobson:Right, and so we've had a couple of other coaches on the podcast before, but for those who may not have heard those previous episodes, can you explain and I think this is something that is very common for people to not necessarily understand what the difference is between a coach and a therapist?
Tiffany Colburn:Sure. So a therapist really wants to work on your past, dealing with your trauma and your past and your healing. I'm going to I work with you hand in hand, right where you're at now, and move forward as far as building a new life, how to work with that other person, because a lot of times we're stuck. While we want to leave the abusive situation, we're still stuck with that person in our life, having to work with them, talking about boundaries. And while you talk about that with your therapist, sometimes it's more understanding why we need that boundary in place rather than how a boundary is going to help you.
Cary Jacobson:That's a great explanation, Not the kind of the behind the scenes, the why. But what are we going to do with it now going forward?
Tiffany Colburn:Exactly.
Cary Jacobson:Yeah, what we do with plans is very similar, especially in the mediation space. It's not necessarily what led you here, while sometimes that can come up and be important. It's now that you're here, what are you going to do going forward? So I always like to kind of equate those.
Tiffany Colburn:Exactly because you do have to continue to quote unquote, work together a little bit to raise your kids. Yep, especially when there are kids involved.
Cary Jacobson:Exactly kids, yep, especially when there are kids involved Exactly Now. As most people in the show know, or listeners to the show know, our practice of Jacobson family law is very focused on avoiding litigation whenever possible. But we also recognize that that is not always possible and sometimes, even if they're not in court, they're they may be facing high conflict situations. Can you share why documentation is such a powerful tool, maybe not just for court, but also either after court or kind of in preparation for separate Um.
Tiffany Colburn:So documentation is probably one of the biggest things, and I know that when I left my ex-husband, people kept telling me to document it, but nobody told me what that looked like or what it meant. Just preparing for court and also even just watching for certain things, Because in my 10 years since I've divorced, I've been in and out of litigation I guess, so to speak, several times trying to come to new agreements because my ex has moved, kids have aged out and what have you, and so it's just super important to one be able to bring things back to light. Sometimes you'll forget things. The other thing is looking for patterns.
Tiffany Colburn:One of the big things in my situation right now, as a matter of fact, is the pattern of my ex-husband doesn't take my my son to his activities that he's scheduled to take him to, and so finding the pattern of how often that happens is it once a month, Is it twice a month, type of thing. It's also patterns of when parents the high conflict person is taking their visitation or making their FaceTime calls, or how many messages are they sending you every day. I have a couple of clients currently that is preparing for court, coming up, mediation actually at the end of the month and we were going through some stuff during a session last week. She told me how many messages he sent her in a month and I'm like let's break that down even farther. How many messages is he sending you per week? And the number was staggering and a lot of them were non-needed messages, just trying to engage with her and cause conflict between the two of them.
Cary Jacobson:What type of documentation do you generally recommend for people to be thinking about?
Tiffany Colburn:So the biggest thing I recommend to my clients honestly is using a planner, just an old school planner. I write down every day. If I recommend that they write down every day what activities the kids have going on that day school activities, after school activities, doctor's appointments, anything like that. I also recommend on that writing down did the other parents show up If it was a school play? Did the other parents show up? If it was a doctor's appointment, did they show up to that? If you have a court-ordered FaceTime call, write that down. Did they show up on time? How long did the call last? Was the child engaged in the call? Anything like that.
Tiffany Colburn:I find that that's the best way to find patterns, keep track of everything that's going on. If something happens during a phone call between the kids and the other parents, I might write a small note like child was upset. Afterwards I'll even I even encourage some of my parents of, or my clients of younger kids to write down the kids like their behaviors before and after visits with the other parent, looking for patterns If the kid's coming back very upset or crying not to go with the parent or whatever. So I use it for all kinds of different things crying not to go with the parent or whatever. So I use it for all kinds of different things and I think that's then they can take it to their lawyer and be like look at, these are all the things that I'm seeing and able to take it in the courtroom with you to so that you can answer questions really quickly.
Cary Jacobson:I think that's great advice because one of the biggest things as an attorney that comes up is do you remember the things that happened? And if you have something that you've written simultaneous to when it happened, then that can potentially, if ever necessary, be used as evidence If it gets to the point where you're actually in court and litigating those issues.
Tiffany Colburn:I personally was in court a few years ago. My ex-husband had filed contempt and one of the things was oh no, yeah, he had filed contempt. And one of the things that came up was the judge had asked me directly if I knew how many times a month my son went to speech therapy, or how many times a month each of the kids had a therapy appointment.
Cary Jacobson:Really quickly and I had the answer in two seconds because I not only had documented it in my planner, but you seen it also helpful for situations such as clients going to mediation or also trying to settle cases, so that it doesn't actually get to the point where a judge is making those decisions.
Tiffany Colburn:It absolutely does. Like I said I had, I have a client that's going to mediation next week and being able to see how many emails he had sent her in one month in a week we broke it down to a week and her being able to. We discuss the fact that this is something to bring up in mediation, that he's engaging in things that were unnecessary in mediation, that he's engaging in things that were unnecessary. It's also helpful in mediation as far as maybe even drop off time and pick up time. I have personally have moved over the years from dropping off and picking up on Friday night and Sunday night to dropping off after school and picking up after school and dropping off at school on Monday morning, so that there's no engagement because someone was always late to drop off and pick up, and so being able to document that and show it in mediation and be like, hey, this would work better for us, it's definitely helped absolutely.
Cary Jacobson:Now I know that you specialize in helping people recognize some of those more subtle and you know what can be deeply damaging forms of emotional abuse and control. You mentioned that kind of in your story, not noticing that for a period of time. What are some of the signs that often go unnoticed, especially in those co-parenting dynamics?
Tiffany Colburn:That's a great question. It really is some of the littlest nuances, sometimes the gaslighting and making you question your own reality. There was a lot of times where I was told that I just was making things up, that I was imagining it, that it didn't happen, some course of control. There was control. We actually had a situation recently where my son was trying to leave an activity and his dad stood in front of the door and wouldn't let him leave. And while a lot of people are like, oh, I'm trying to watch my kid, there's no reason to trap anybody into a space. I'm trying to think of some other good examples. Let's see Even control over money.
Tiffany Colburn:When I was married, I didn't have access to any of the financial information.
Tiffany Colburn:I didn't have credit cards in my name, I didn't have car loans in my name, I didn't have the home loan in my name, and we have all of these things.
Tiffany Colburn:He gave me X amount of dollars a month to get groceries, buy clothes for the kids, stuff like that, so not having any idea about any financial type things, and when I left him, I literally had no credit to be able to rent a place or get a car loan or anything like that. And then telling you how to dress, how to wear your hair. I was often told oh, you don't have to get dressed to go to this place, you don't need makeup, you don't need that. Why are you spending so much time getting dressed up to go to a baseball game or whatever, trying to think of some other things, and then always watching for where I'm at. If I didn't respond to an email or a text message right away, he would keep going and keep going, keep on harassing me, and after a while he would call me and be like where are you? Why aren't you answering? Like he was concerned, but really it wasn't about concern. So those are just a few things that I can think of off the top of my head this morning.
Cary Jacobson:Now, in situations where people are trying to work on things outside of court, where people are trying to work on things outside of court, we often see clients who just want to get along. They want to make things amicable, but sometimes that's at the cost of their own peace. They may say they're trying to just get this over with. How do you help people balance being cooperative we're hopefully resolving things outside of court but also being protected in the process.
Tiffany Colburn:That is interesting that you brought that question up. I actually had a client reach out to me about that this morning. That question up I actually had a client reach out to me about that this morning. They recently came to an agreement outside of court for a temporary agreement for custody. And I will say the daughter is three and she had requested a FaceTime once a week or twice a week, something like that in the temporary order, and he adamantly said no and took it out Okay, but the last two weekends that the daughter had been with dad he has requested FaceTime from mom.
Tiffany Colburn:And this last weekend she said I have a bunch like my parents are visiting. We have a ton of stuff planned. Do I have to let him do that? And I was like no, it's not in the agreement. Would it help you a little bit when you come to your final order? Possibly, but you have the right to say no. And so this morning when she messaged me she goes, I feel really guilty and I was like I can understand that and she goes. But I don't understand why I feel guilty and I'm like because you actually had a boundary and you want to do the right thing for your daughter and I go. It's just one of those things that as a good person, as a, I like to say, normal person, you want to do the best for your kids, but when you have someone that's just using it to control and manipulate and make them look good in court, it's really hard to have those boundaries. So it's a hard balance for some people.
Cary Jacobson:Yeah, it is a hard balance. Some people yeah, and it is a hard balance. Um, and I do think, being in the litigation, process also makes it more complicated because it does everything that's going on is being, or could be, yeah yeah, exactly that's it.
Tiffany Colburn:And she had let him FaceTime the previous visit, but this time she's. I could, but I know she's not, she's going to be tired, she's not going to want to sit and FaceTime with him. No, every once in a while, right now. But you have a little more power when you have a final order but it's still, especially since he took it out Right.
Cary Jacobson:Are there any go-to technology apps or templates that you recommend to your clients to use when they are documenting? You mentioned the planner before, but whether it's communicating with their ex or their co-parent, that may assist in minimizing the drama between them.
Tiffany Colburn:I'm sure you've heard this one a million times before, but our family wizard is amazing. I think 90% of the people that I work with, including myself, uses it. It's a great tool. You have a journal in there, you can pay shared expenses out of there, you can make phone calls in there now. You can set up your visitation calendar in there, you can share pictures and, of course, it also allows the court and your lawyers and everybody else access to it to go over different messages that are going back and forth. And I personally haven't experienced that, but I've had several clients where their lawyer will watch the communication between the two parents closely because one parent is excessively aggressive and she'll pop in every once and take a peek and the other great thing about it is it does have a tone thing, have a tone thing. I can't remember how it's worded, but it has a tone moderator and it'll tell you if you're being aggressive in your tone type of thing. So it's helpful in that area too.
Cary Jacobson:And, if I remember correctly because I don't see it from the same side that clients see it from, but it gives suggestions on how to revise the communication and tone it down.
Tiffany Colburn:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I think that's. Of all of them that I've seen and heard about with all my clients, I think that's my favorite one. To be honest with you, I don't know what you recommend, but I have a couple others that use Close app and a couple others and I know that our Family Wizard there's a cost for it and some of them. The others there are not.
Tiffany Colburn:But, like the Close app one that one or two of my clients use, it's really hard to. In my opinion, from what I've seen, it looks more like a text message thing, and for me I think it's hard to follow along and be able to print it out for court or even to take to someone like yourself or where I live, we have guardian ad litems and it's hard to print it out so that other people can see it. Or sometimes my clients will share messages that are going on between between the two of them, so I can help them with their communication a little bit, and so the close app is way harder for me to understand, maybe because I use our family wizard, but it just seems the harder one to use. But I do love our family wizards.
Cary Jacobson:Yes, that is the one that we recommend the most as well, and I know that generally courts prefer to use as well.
Tiffany Colburn:Yeah, I think, because everybody can see into it.
Cary Jacobson:Yeah, I know co-parenting is probably one of the biggest sources of ongoing stress after a couple gets divorced, especially when the ex is high conflict. What are some of the core strategies that you teach to keep communication clean, documentation like along the lines that we were talking about before, and really keeping the kids out of the middle of the situation and really keeping the kids out of?
Tiffany Colburn:the middle of the situation. Keeping the kids out of the middle of the situation is probably one of the hardest things, especially when you're dealing with an abusive high conflict ex. Honestly, because they love to use the kids as a messenger or a pawn, whatever I definitely. When it comes to communicating with them, though, one of my biggest things is using more yellow rock. I know a lot of people talk about gray rock communication where you're not engaging hardly at all. There's no emotion involved, no, anything. But I know how much judges hate it and I know that it looks like I'm trying to think of the right word this morning.
Tiffany Colburn:It looks like you're not really trying to co-parent a whole lot with them. When you're using yellow rock, there's a little more emotion involved. You're looking as if you're attempting to co-parent with that person, and I hate to say it in that way, but when you're dealing with a high conflict person, it's really hard to co-parent with that person. I know in most of my clients' cases, if you tell them the sky is blue, they will argue with you until they're red in the face and you're like on the floor that the sky is red today. So it's really hard to co-parent in any way, shape or form. So trying to do whatever's in the kid's best interest is difficult, and so trying to appear as if you're co-parenting and, being polite, being keeping it child focused, is probably the most important thing you can do yeah, and it is challenging when so oftentimes there is a barrage of negativity that comes in the communications and at least some of the communications we see from our clients.
Cary Jacobson:and it's not all about the kids, it's sometimes just demeaning things towards the parent that you have to then comb through to get to the meat of the issue and having time for that.
Tiffany Colburn:Yes, and I think that's probably one of offer or whatever is. I spend a lot of time teaching them how to communicate, not just in gray rock, but like picking apart a message and being like this is what the issue really is and this is how we need to respond to it. And, like I said before, a lot of times my clients will send me two or three messages, you know a day or a week or whatever, so that they can see that, oh, just because dad says that so-and-so was great at school today, but then attacks you about not being willing to change the whole summer schedule because they didn't like the weeks that you picked, who cares about if so-and-so had a great day at school? You need to stay focused on. It's not your summer to choose the weeks for your visitation. It's my summer and we're not changing that. Because you were nice to me for two sentences.
Cary Jacobson:Tiffany, I so appreciate your insights today For people who are listening, who are trying to stay calm, hopefully trying to stay out of court, and still feel like they're being pulled into the chaos. What's one thing that you would like them to remember?
Tiffany Colburn:That it's not forever and that it's. It really is about your kids and what you think is in the kids best interest and I know we hear that all the time, but, as the I like to refer to as the protective parent, we really do know what's in our kid's best interest, and if that means going through mediation multiple times, that's really what it means, right, and that there's plenty of people out there to help you. There's great lawyers like yourself, coaches like myself that are here to really help you get through this time, because eventually it does get better.
Cary Jacobson:Thank you so much. Where can our listeners connect with you if they would like to use your services?
Tiffany Colburn:So I have a great website it is wwwmyhiddenscarscom, and I'm on social media, at myhiddenscarscoach, on Instagram, so either one perfect place to find me, and I'm always sharing certain great insight and stuff like that.
Cary Jacobson:Wonderful. Thank you so much, Tiffany. And for our listeners, remember you can protect your peace even when things feel out of control. If you're looking for ways to navigate divorce without courtroom battles, we are here to help. Please subscribe to this episode, share it with anyone who may find it helpful and stay tuned for more real stories and practical tools right here on Divorce Diaries Lessons from the Trenches.
Intro/Close:Thanks for joining us today on this episode of Divorce Diaries. Remember every journey is unique, but you don't have to navigate it alone. Visit JacobsonFamilyLawcom or call 443-726-4912 for support and guidance.