Drama-Free Divorce Podcast

EP #12: Domestic Violence Among High-Achieving Professionals with guest Amanda Lee

• Cary Jacobson, Esq. • Season 2 • Episode 12

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0:00 | 21:16

Domestic violence does not discriminate by title, income, or education—yet silence often thrives in professional circles. In this episode, Cary Jacobson sits down with Amanda Lee, founder of The Lee Consultants, to discuss the hidden reality of abuse among high-achieving professionals.

Amanda brings a unique perspective as a former litigator and survivor. Together, they shatter the false narrative that someone can be "too successful" to be abused.

We discuss:

  • Why abuse often hides behind polished resumes.
  • The specific barriers professionals face, including reputation concerns and complex assets.
  • How to strategically plan a safe exit when your career is on the line.
  • When out-of-court resolutions are appropriate—and when they are not.

Connect with our Guest: Learn more about Amanda Lee: www.theleeconsultants.com

Resources from Jacobson Family Law:

Visit jacobsonworkshop.com to learn more.

SPEAKER_00

I provide direct one-on-one coaching. It's very tailored to the individual needs of that person, but it's also specific to the needs of any victim of domestic violence who's trying to get out. So we actually work together to develop a strategic safety plan while also working together to build their goals and figure out what it is they want when they leave. I help them get whoever else they need, other service providers. Maybe they need a counselor, maybe they need a financial planner. I provide all of that support. We work together to really develop this plan while also remembering that they have all of these other demands in their life. Welcome to the Drama Free Divorce Podcast.

SPEAKER_01

I'm your host, attorney and mediator Carrie Kingson. Each week we bring you practical guidance, real conversations, and expert insights to help you navigate divorce with clarity, confidence, and less conflict. If you're ready for a calmer, more empowered path forward, you're in the right place. Welcome back to the Drama Free Divorce Podcast, where we have honest conversations about divorce, conflict, and pathways to clarity and safety. I'm your host, Carrie Jacobson, attorney and mediator at Jacobson Family Law. And today's episode addresses a topic that is deeply important and often misunderstood, especially within professional communities. I'm joined today by Amanda Lee. She's the founder of the Lee Consultants, and Amanda provides services to support high-achieving professionals navigating domestic violence. She brings a rare and powerful combination of experience as a seasoned litigator, an advocate for women and children, a certified professional coach, as well as a survivor of domestic violence herself. Amanda, thank you so much for being here today and for all the work that you do.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate being here and just being able to talk to you and your audience.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Well, we know that there are lots and lots of misconceptions about domestic violence. So let's start there. What are some of the most false, common false narratives that you see?

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's actually a really easy one because it's the biggest false narrative that's out there. And that's who a victim is. There's this narrative out there, this picture of what society says a victim looks like, you know, the certain demographic. And what that is is typically a woman. It's someone who's uneducated or lower education, someone who doesn't have financial means, somebody who doesn't have some type of status in the community, and someone who has experienced physical violence against them. And that is what people think a victim looks like. And that is completely not the entire story. So that right there is the biggest misconception.

SPEAKER_01

When you say that's not the entire story, what are the other common scenarios that where there are survivors and victims of domestic violence?

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's the thing, is that it can happen to anyone. There are men that are victims. There are obviously women that are victims. It doesn't matter what your education is or financial status or position in the community. Anyone could experience this. And as you said from the beginning, I personally have experienced domestic violence the first 13 years of building my legal career. And I've spoken to many other attorneys who were in the same situation. And these are people who are partners at law firms, people who represent big companies or are in-house at large organizations. So that's the real reality, is that it can happen to any of us. And it does. It's not just a one-off. You know, I used to think I was this one-off. I was the anomaly. And that's why I didn't talk about it. That's why I didn't tell anyone until I started to realize no, this is happening all throughout our community.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And unfortunately, we often see that abuse can hide behind those polished resumes and successful careers because it is so taboo. Like you mentioned, you didn't open up because you were afraid that, you know, that you were an anomaly. And I think that happens for so many others as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It does. It's something that has the stigma associated with it, especially when you get to the point where you are someone who has this outward persona of someone who's respected and you're powerful and you're a leader. People look up to you. So you don't fit that picture. You know, you don't fit what a stereotypical victim looks like. And there's also not those resources out there for you. Now, all the resources are wonderful, you know, places. You know, a lot of these nonprofits and what's out there that's available, they don't necessarily provide the needs that someone in that position has. You know, they might help with something like housing or basic needs. But when you're in this position, when you might own the house yourself or you have the financial means, that's not what you need. And so it's just another layer and another thing that's making you stay silent and feel like, okay, maybe I'm alone in this.

SPEAKER_01

And you just talked about some of those gaps in knowledge and resources, specifically for high-achieving professionals. Why do you think that is? Like, why do you think that there aren't those resources for individuals like yourself that may have the money, may have the knowledge, but can't get out themselves?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think it's because we've all just accepted that narrative that society as a whole has accepted that it doesn't happen to people like us. And so it doesn't happen to us. So we as a community, a legal community or any kind of professional community, stay silent on it. So that's one thing that keeps people quiet, keeps them not even looking for help. But then there's the resources that are there to meet the needs of people who fit that stereotype. And that's actually why I created the League Consultants or TLC, because I said there's this need that nobody is addressing, not only the need for awareness, but also this need for services that are specifically for this demographic. You know, that's where I come in with TLC.

SPEAKER_01

And what types of resources and support do you provide individuals that may find themselves in this scenario?

SPEAKER_00

I provide direct one-on-one coaching. It's very tailored to the individual needs of that person, but it's also specific to the needs of any victim of domestic violence who's trying to get out. So we actually work together to develop a strategic safety plan while also working together to build, you know, their goals and figure out what it is they want when they leave. So we work together. I call it this triage period because I help them get with whoever else they need, other service providers. Maybe they need a counselor, maybe they need a financial planner to figure out their money situation. And I provide all of that support. We work together to really develop this plan while also remembering that they have all of these other demands in their life. Because that's one thing that a lot of other service providers really just can't address. They they have very specific resources that they're trying to provide clients. So they can't look at the person as a whole. So that's what I do while coaching them. I look at them as a whole and address everything while trying to help them get out, but also as little disruption in their life as possible. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And are there scenarios where you are with individuals who are making the decision to leave this relationship and now they're taking on maybe a legal component, whether it's a divorce or custody or, you know, some sort of aspect that is going to dissolve this relationship?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's definitely not something that I personally would handle, but part of the coaching is helping them find the professional service providers they need. So a lawyer could be one of them that wherever they are, because I handle clients nationally, I can find referrals and I can say, okay, here's somebody that's in your area, somebody that specializes in this. Because part of what I do also is make sure when I'm referring them, I've vetted the people to determine have they dealt with domestic violence before? Is this like someone who knows how to handle a client that has experienced this? So that is definitely something that we do. But a lot of the clients aren't necessarily even ready for that step of the divorce yet because right now they're just trying to figure out how do I leave. So I think talking to a lawyer is always a great start. And it's definitely something that I recommend them doing. But at this point, they're still at home and trying to figure out what do I do to get out. And that process can take, it can be quick, or it can take, you know, maybe a couple of weeks, a couple of months to go through.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And, you know, we see that regularly that it takes time for that person to come to the conclusion that that's how they want to move forward and then kind of take the next steps, you know, once they are in that safe space to take the next steps of, you know, whatever that legal action is. But if you find yourself working with someone who's ready to take those next steps, what are the some of the things that you would recommend that they be thinking about before they start that legal action of divorce, you know, custody, that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_00

That's what we really talk about is figuring out how do we get all of your ducks in a row first? You know, what what do you want your life to look like on the other side of this? So it's looking at finances, it's looking at schedules. Okay, well, what's gonna be the ideal situation for your kids? How are you going to continue with your job and your household, including where you're gonna live? You know, do you need some type of assistance? Do you need to figure out, you know, all of these things that come into play in your life? What do you need to make that still be able to work, but in a different situation? So we go through all of that. Everyone's needs are unique, everyone has different support in their community. Some people might have more of that, some people might have less. So we might have to go and look into okay, well, how will you figure out how to get rides for your kids or whatever it may be? But we do, we look at all of that to really figure out, okay, when you leave, first off, it has to be safe. Right. How are we gonna ensure that for the the best of our ability that you are doing this safely and strategically? How can we get you in that position that when you do leave, you feel like you're ready to take that step? It's never gonna be easy. It's not absolutely try to get them there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, as you know, we talk a lot on this podcast and when in our firm about helping our clients through those out-of-court resolutions, whether that's mediation, negotiating settlement agreements or parenting agreements. And obviously, safety is of utmost importance. But when have got those safety precautions in place, how can survivors benefit from those structured, trauma-informed out-of-court resolutions?

SPEAKER_00

It's really a great thing if they can go forward without having to go through the litigation, obviously. There are some people that just can't avoid it because their abuse is just going to take them through all of this. And that can be used sometimes as a weapon to continue the abuse, you know, taking them through litigation. But there's actually some, in fact, I didn't go through that. I went through a very easy, for lack of a better term, divorce, despite it being a very abusive relationship. And so it's really beneficial to have that available because some people, even if the abuse continues, maybe the verbal abuse, the emotional, they still can figure out all of the, you know, the divorce part in some type of you know amicable way. So having that available is really important, but also keeping in mind that someone who is a victim might still be seeking that. You know, not every victim is coming in saying, I am in this abusive situation, this is going to be tough litigation. So that's something that I think is really important for people, especially family law attorneys, to be aware of. Because if you have someone that's a client that maybe is one of these high-achieving professionals, they might still be hiding that fact. They might still not even fully admitting it. So being aware that your client, maybe even the one who presents as altogether and respected and powerful, that they might actually be experiencing this. So I think it's really important for family law attorneys to be on the lookout for because not anyone's gonna disclose it right away.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So for us, you know, family law attorneys and those who may be listening, would you recommend including a question when we're kind of going through a consult about domestic violence? And how would you recommend phrasing that so that people are more likely to make that disclosure?

SPEAKER_00

I think that would be a really important thing. And I think it could really add to just even your case evaluation and the strategies that you're going to use for your cases. I would not use that frame or that that phrase domestic violence, because a lot of people automatically think physical violence and they're no, it's not me, and they just shut down. But when you start asking things like, is there ever any control issues? Does your partner assert control over any areas? What are, you know, asking questions like that, asking about who controls what. So maybe they won't ever say to you, yes, they are controlling, but you start to get the sense when they start to say, well, they don't let me do this. Or, you know, you can even ask questions like, how do things work in your life? How does it work when you have social events or your calendar and or your scheduling? And then you can start to listen to that. And if you really listen with this open mind that this person could be a victim, you might be able to get a little bit more out of them without ever making them say, Yes, I'm a victim, or yes, this is abuse. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And that would also inform the way family law attorneys or mediators kind of approach how they're going to negotiate or handle maybe the mediation so that they're more sensitive to those issues.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think that's so true. Because a victim will often have different what we call trauma responses, because domestic violence is trauma. And so there's things that they just do that if you don't know that they're a victim, you won't realize that this is a response. You know, they might shut down to certain questions and you might just think, oh, well, that's just they don't have a lot to talk about there. If you know that they are a victim, you might realize, oh, they're shutting down because that means that this is something that's very sensitive or something that has had a big impact on them. And without being open-minded to that or asking the right questions, you're not going to know. So you might just pass it off as, oh, that's not a big deal because they shut down.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. That's such a great point. Now, as you were talking about like working with those high-achieving professionals, one of the main things that so many of us are concerned about is protecting our reputation as well as, you know, privacy and minimizing public exposure. One of the things that I would imagine is going through one of these out-of-court resolutions would be so beneficial if it's possible to mise those issues.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, 100%. Because the fear of losing all that you've built, you know, your reputation, your respect in the community, whether it's as an attorney or any other kind of community member, that really does keep a lot of people quiet. You know, add on top of that that there is this shame, the stigma. People automatically think being a victim means you're weak. You know, that's kind of that what people think. And so that's why I'm really big on this awareness aspect. So hopefully, you know, people who do have to go to court, they feel like they can because they don't think they're gonna be shamed in the community. Because, like you said, some people just can't avoid it, but there are people who still won't admit this in court because they're just so afraid of what people are gonna think. So that there's this twofold, you know, really response here is that if we start talking about it more as a community and accepting that, yes, it happens to professionals like us. And it doesn't mean we're weak. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with us. It just means that we went through this, but we can still be very productive and efficient and great lawyers or whatever profession we're in, you know, that right there would help. But then also just having the availability of these out-of-court settlements and options is wonderful as well.

SPEAKER_01

So, what changes would you like to see in how the legal profession or other professional communities address some of the domestic violence that's among the high-achieving professionals?

SPEAKER_00

The first thing is just acceptance that it happens. You know, we need to stop making it feel like it's this thing that it happens to them and not us. And if it happens to us, well, then something's wrong with you. Right. Because that's not true. You know, if we can just start raising awareness, just like we have about many other things that affect individuals. Yeah, it's become a thing lately where we've really been talking about wellness. We've been talking about chronic stress and burnout and mental illness and mental health and substance opposition. All of those things recently it's been talked about. Like, oh, these are this is something that people in our profession experience and we've been supportive, but we haven't done that with domestic violence. That's still just this topic that is not talked about. And so again, it keeps people silent. That silence really just encourages the victim to stay silent. So awareness, talking about it, having resources available, you know, even just policies and practices in organizations and firms, that would be something that can help somebody. Having something like the coaching that I provide, you know, having that as a benefit, part of their benefits package, something where they can go and get the help they need instead of feeling like they have nowhere. You know, when the firm or the organization is actually making a resource available that could help them, that right there is just one step to say, oh, okay, you know, we validate this, we understand that this happens.

SPEAKER_01

If there's someone listening today and they recognize themselves in this conversation, what would be the first step that you recommend that they take to provide clarity and safety?

SPEAKER_00

If they feel like they might be experiencing abuse, the first thing I want to say is that you're not alone. You know, try to just understand that this is not a reflection of you, that this is something that's happened to you. And then the next step is to really seek some type of help. And what I mean by that is some type of action that you can start finding out how to reach your safety, how to become free from this abuse, whether it is through someone like contacting me or going to a therapist. They can't necessarily help with a safety plan, but they can at least help with just dealing with the emotions and dealing with what you're going through. So seeking some type of assistance, you know, no one's meant to carry this alone. It is very difficult. And that's why I'm here. That's why therapists are there. And if you do feel like you can go to one of the nonprofits, maybe you do need immediate help. Those are wonderful as well. They can at least give some guidance. They can provide questions that you should start thinking about on your own to at least setting up a safety plan.

SPEAKER_01

Wonderful. Thank you for those resources. Thank you for sharing your insight and your heart with us today. Domestic violence does not discriminate, as you've mentioned, by title, income, education, profession, and silence often unfortunately protects the system and not the people who are victims. If you or someone you know needs support, please seek confidential professional guidance and know that you're not alone. Amanda, how can people find you and your services to help them through this difficult time?

SPEAKER_00

They can go to my website, theleeconsultants.com. They can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Amanda Lee, parentheses costly, C-O-S-T-L-E-Y. They can call me, text me. My number's 410-375-2754. So anyway, they can reach out. Everything is confidential. I make sure that everything is always very discreet as well. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01

And we'll be sure to include all of that contact information in the show notes. You can find more episodes of our podcast, the Drama Free Divorce Podcast, at our website, jakobsonfamilylaw.com backslash podcast. And until next time, I'm Carrie Jacobson reminding you that clarity, safety, and dignity should always be part of the divorce conversation. Thanks for listening to the Drama Free Divorce Podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, be sure to follow, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs it. For more resources or to work with us, visit JacobsonfamilyLaw.com. Until next time, stay grounded, stay informed, and stay drama free.