EP #16: Navigating Divorce Across Cultures with Guest Diana Romanov

Divorce is rarely just a legal matter — and that's especially true when spouses come from different countries, cultures, or legal systems. In this episode, Cary Jacobson is joined by Diana Romanov, a San Francisco family law attorney licensed in both California and Germany, to talk about what makes cross-border divorce so uniquely challenging.

Diana is a Certified Family Law Specialist, mediator, and founder of her own boutique practice, fluent in English, Russian, and German. A former prosecutor in Berlin, she brings a rare combination of international legal training and personal experience — including her own divorce — to the way she counsels clients today.

Cary and Diana cover the blind spots that catch multicultural couples off guard, how cultural attitudes toward marriage, parenting, and money can quietly escalate conflict, what's at stake when international custody or relocation is on the table, and why mediation is often the better-fit path for cross-cultural families. Diana also opens up about how her own divorce changed the way she shows up for clients, and offers her best advice for anyone feeling overwhelmed by a divorce that spans borders.

Connect with Diana Romanov at romanovlaw.com.

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Visit jacobsonfamilylaw.com to learn more.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Culturally speaking, a man who, let's say, makes a million dollars comes to my office, calls me up, and says, what? I have to pay spouse support 35% of my net disposable in child support? Hang up. Whoever is listening and is married and moving to this country, the first thing I would do is to consult a divorce attorney just to understand the law. Because what I tell these types of men or women who make a lot of money, I cannot change the law based on their culture.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome to the Drama Free Divorce Podcast. I'm your host, attorney and mediator Carrie Jacobson. Each week we bring you practical guidance, real conversations, and expert insights to help you navigate divorce with clarity, confidence, and less conflict. If you're ready for a calmer, more empowered path forward, you're in the right place. Welcome back to the Drama Free Divorce Podcast, where we have honest conversations about divorce, family law, and how to move through one of life's most difficult transitions with clarity, dignity, and less conflict. I'm your host, Carrie Jacobson, attorney and mediator with Jacobson Family Law. And today's episode is truly a unique one. Divorce doesn't always fit nicely inside one legal system, one culture, or even one country. And my guest today understands that better than most. I'm joined by Diana Romanoff, a San Francisco-based family law attorney who is licensed in both California and Germany. She is a certified family law specialist and is fluent in English, Russian, and German. Diana brings an extraordinary international and multicultural perspective to divorce and custody, as well as mediation, combined with her personal experience that deeply informs her work. Diana, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Well, you have such a fascinating background. Could you share a little bit about your journey and what led you to open your own practice and work in family law?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

I was born and raised in Ukraine, and my family member, one of my family members was a lawyer, and I thought, gosh, this is such an impressive profession and so respectful. And people look up. I was looking up to my uncle, and I decided between three professions. For some reason, I didn't have any other options in my mind, either being a lawyer, actress, or journalist. And I thought being a lawyer is like being a red wine. The older I get, the better it gets. Actress, not so much. Journalist, maybe if I'm not successful as being a lawyer, at least I will be able to write. And so now I can do all of it in my profession. I can be a lawyer, I write, and in my YouTube channel, I can be somewhat or in court, somewhat an actress. And as my parents have been through divorce, as I have been through my own divorce, I realized that my personal experience will help me. Well, everything I learned up until this point actually was designed to help other people. The way I have experienced divorce as a six-year-old when my parents are in divorce, the way I experienced my own divorce and how I was behaving and how I was feeling and how I was interacting with my lawyer helped me to understand now how clients are interacting with me and why, and have more compassion when they're not the best self. And I know I'm sure you heard the saying that in criminal law the worst clients are the best behavior, and in family law, the best clients are the worst behavior. So I get a lot of emotionally loaded clients, and my personal experience helped me to shape. And now, of course, having had this background, Ukrainian, German, having had the education in Germany that was military style, very strict, only three chances to pass, 70% failure. So that helped me to shape who I am as a lawyer today. How serious I take my cases, how I interact with clients, with compassion. So everything up until this point led me where I am right now. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

And curious, you worked for a period of time in Germany as well, correct? Correct. And you were a prosecutor in Berlin? Correct. And how did that shape how you work with your family law clients now in these, you know, sometimes difficult and immersional cases?

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Part of this prosecution experience that I had in Germany was mandatory. So every lawyer in Germany had to go through it. It's not something I did by choice. Right. And so when I was introduced to the prosecution office, and I remembered the shocking moment when the car with files was rolling in and the face of my prosecutor, so the files were stuck up to higher than I than I was sitting, and I realized how many cases they have to go through and how it shapes. In interacting with my clients also shaped how my another friend Bernie, who is a defense attorney, taught me. He said, every prosecutor at the end of the year would like to close some cases. So when I have domestic violence restraining order case, I don't rush to resolve the case with the prosecution DA's office. So you I I don't do it, but I have, let's say, criminal attorney to work with. And clients are eager to resolve things. And the criminal attorney says, time is on our side. And it helps me to explain to the client that you don't rush a prosecutor. They have that many cases, and at the end of the year, your case will be the least priority to sort of get a deal to resolve it in in in any shape or form. So that's my way of dealing with criminal cases.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

So a lot of your practice has to do with international and multicultural divorce and custody matters. Right. What do many people not understand when it comes to those types of cases? What are some of the common blind spots that you see in those multicultural or international cases?

SPEAKER_01 5:52

I wouldn't necessarily say blind spots, but in let's say in Germany, there are ways to divide pension. It's called Versorgungsausgleich, which is a German pension plan. It's very difficult to explain to a client who is married to a German citizen how to divide that type of plan. We outsource even those types of plans to companies that are specialized in dividing those types of plans. So tell the client not to be shy away by the fact that it's an international divorce or that a pension is involved in Germany. The same principle applies. We evaluate it's called quasi-community property. We evaluate international real estate bank accounts the same way we would evaluate American bank accounts. When it gets really difficult and it applies to international or California type of divorce situation where a spouse is opening different LLCs, corporations, and then transfers money to these corporations, it becomes really tough when they're out overseas. And so in that type of scenario, I hire an attorney who is practicing in that country to register the subpoena or whatever we need to get information from that particular entity. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

So that you could track down those particular assets at any in those LLCs.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Got it. And are there cultural expectations around marriage, parenting, or even money that can complicate the negotiation process when you're trying to settle one of these types of cases?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Oh yes. Ah, so where should I start? Okay, in in in Russia, although I don't practice in Russian, I'm not from Russia, but having Russian-speaking clients, I realize that in Russia, there is sort of automatic presumption that the children will be with the mother. And as far as recent, I have a case where the same principle applies in China and opposite principle applies in Saudi Arabian. So when I have clients with certain expectations when they come from these countries, it's shocking, shocking to hear how what? 50-50? I let's say if it's a mother, I have been raising the child from the from day one. He has been working, not there. How is it possible that I so having these conversations to explain well California promotes continuous constant contact with both parents? And even though the other parents seemed not to have been showing up as much, well, now things change now that you're going through divorce, the other parent culturally speaking, a man who let's say makes a million dollars comes to my office, calls me up, and says, What? I have to pay spousal support 35% of my net disposable and child support? What hang up. Second hang up. Whoever is listening and is married and moving to this country, the first thing I would do is to consult a divorce attorney just to understand the law. Because what I tell these types of men or women who make a lot of money or custody, this is where we are. This is what the I cannot change the law based on their culture. Sometimes they have a prenup that outlines, for example, shocking, shocking, shocking that you would think Europe has a very strong law in terms of prenups, but most prenups from France, from Germany, are not enforceable at all. I had a client who many clients, not just one, who had a prenup because in Germany or in France, it's not mandatory like it would be it is in California to disclose all assets and debts. So what happens is they waive in their prenup community property law, but they don't know what's point A is. They don't know what are the assets at all. So it's a blank prenup that would be against public policy, against California law. And no matter how I twist it and how I do my research, maybe some aspects are enforceable, but if this portion is not enforceable, the whole prenup is not enforceable. So even if I try to enforce one portion, it becomes a point of contention and litigation for people who are thinking to move to California. Have two prenups. Because you know, now that you know what you know, just have a second prenup. Or some parents make mistakes where they allow the other parent to travel and stay for more than six months in another country, another state, another if they're in Europe and the other parents say, Oh, I just want to visit and explore California. And next thing you know, six months and one day, home state of that child is in California and the residence is in California. For example, in Germany, in order to get divorced, the couple needs to live for one year, one whole year separately before they can even file for divorce. In California, it doesn't matter. They can file for legal separation right away and start dividing things and getting spousal support and child support. All these little, not so little things are more explaining to do for me when clients are calling internationally from international background and asking these questions.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Well, I think you pointed out two very important pieces, and I just want to make sure it's clear for our listeners. The first you mentioned was even if you have a prenup in a different country, if you move to the United States, to you know, any of the states, you specifically being in California, but you know, really any state that you plan on moving to, it sounds like the recommendation is get a new pre-or post-nup in that state, basically based on that particular state's laws and reinstating what your intentions were so that they're valid locally.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

And even if your prenup says it is enforceable in California, doesn't help. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

And then the second thing I think it's important to bring up or to just reiterate is you mentioned the six-month and one day rule with regards to custody. So I just want to clarify for our listeners that what you're referring to there is that at least here in the states, custody jurisdiction, so the court who has the authority to make a ruling on custody is based on where the child or children have resided for the prior six months. And this comes up interstate-wise, it comes up internationally all the time. But I just want to make sure our listeners are aware of that because as you mentioned, you could be unintentionally allowing or basically giving permission, whether explicitly or implicitly, to the other parent to travel with that child, relocate with that child, and now realize after that that they are facing a custody dispute in a different location. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Thanks for explaining.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it comes up often, especially, you know, not only internationally, but it does come up interstate as well, because let's face it, the United States is very large. And so we've got people who are moving all over the place for work and family reasons, et cetera. So I think it's important for people to be aware of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Also, Hague Convention. When a parent leaves, going from a Russian background, Russia, it doesn't have a Hague Convention Prevention Act where if one parent leaves to Russia, let's say Moscow, without the other person's per parent consent, there's no way to enforce California court order because of lack of the Hague Convention. So that's it. Right. How do we deal with that? Whenever I have a client who is concerned that the other parent might take the child, we immediately get a passport order where the parent can hold or the court can hold the passport of the child, get custody orders so that the other parent cannot get from the consulate the a new passport, Russian passport, and see what we can do to flag the relocation problem at the border.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Right. And if they have a United States passport, I think you can also contact the State Department to basically notify them that you're concerned that the parent may try to remove the child so that they can flag the child's passport as well.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah. You were just talking about these custody issues, and obviously these are always, you know, stressful situations. But when we were talking about international borders, like just talking about Russia or other countries that are outside the Hague Convention, things can be even more complicated. Are there any other tips that parents should be aware of when they're dealing with a divorce or a custody matter when they're talking about international custody concerns?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

As a general rule, if the other parent, well, first of all, if the trust is already broken, which sometimes happens when parents are going through a divorce, as a general rule, I would say that whenever the other parent travels, it doesn't mean automatically they cannot travel. That is restrictive in at all. However, when giving the travel permission, I would first of all suggest to put it in writing specifically for which country, which city, for how long, and that you do not consent for longer than this period of time. Notarize your signature, see if you can register with the consulate that the parent is going to, or make sure that it's in writing, first of all. And that will be some proof to show there is no intent to for you to allow that the parent to relocate. Okay, that's a good tip for people to be aware of.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

My understanding is you are also a mediator. Yes. And I know that, you know, efficiency and personalization is central to your practice. How does mediation when you're working with a couple help reduce conflict, especially when we're talking about these deep-seated cultural differences that could be at play?

SPEAKER_01 15:23

First of all, when I mediate international couples and actually any couple, even if they say they're amicable and friendly with each other, I do not put them in the same room, Zoom room. I speak to them always separately and establish rapport with each of them separately and find out what is the underlying emotion for the divorce first. Although it seems counterintuitive and not businesslike. However, the underlying currency and emotion shifts the whole conversation. So for example, if one spouse is divorcing the other spouse because they didn't work, then there is this resentment of paying spousal support. So the conversation could be about buying out instead of having monthly payment. If one spouse wasn't faithful, their tendency is going to be to overpay, to overcompensate, and later regret. It's not my job at the end of the day as a mediator to make sure they make decisions that they don't regret. However, I see, especially when they have children, I see it holistically, how will they be later interacting with each other if I push too hard on certain topics to prevent and then it will create resentment. In terms of international aspects, it's a bit easier to mediate international couples compared to being an attorney representing one person because then the judge decides, or then then we have this potential conflict. But as a lawyer, let's say if mother says, I always have been with the child, and the father says, Well, I want 50-50, so I don't pay as much child support, they don't say directly like that, but I can again the currency underneath, I can tell what they're concerned about, and then we can create agreements that on paper or someone is concerned how they look, more than what actual reality is going to be. So if they want to look 50-50 custodial parent, but in reality the visitation is reasonable, which is when they actually are able to see that child or children. So then it's like massaging the actual muscle. So I can see what exactly is going on and work on that. And at the end, the agreement will be more satisfactional to both of them, and they're actually going to follow it compared to going to court and fight for 50-50, but then not show up to overnights or disappoint the children at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Right. And I think that is super important as far as getting the underlying kind of goals and interests. Like what is it that they're really looking for? Is it truly that they want to have 50-50 custody because they want to have that extra time with the children and that sort of thing? Or is the concern the financial side, right? And helping them come to a resolution that addresses both of their needs and their interests is exactly what we as mediators try to do.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

And it's very satisfying to do mediation compared to litigation because I feel in mediation, a lot of divorcing couples, parents, they are in charge to what they agree. For example, in litigation, the judge cannot order a buyout of spousal support. Right. Or cannot order a parent to pay for private school if that parent doesn't want to pay for it in exchange for less child support. And so these agreements that I feel California law is a bit rigid, that shut out to legislation to allow, you know, the judges to also make these types of decisions that what mediation allows, to go outside of the box and agree to things that are not typically something the judge would be able to order. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

And I think it's so helpful for people to realize that they're not bound by what the law is, right? There are some specific things that the court's looking for, making sure that the kids are being protected and that whatever the parents have decided is in their best interest to really craft an agreement that's going to be best for them and their kids. Yeah. For anyone who may be listening right now who's facing divorce that is possibly involving different countries or legal systems, and they're feeling probably completely overwhelmed because one is bad enough, much less two. What's the first step that you would suggest that they take?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Gather all your financial documents, including your spouse's financial documents. The first step is being empowered, educated, and prepared to know what's going on and also think about what type of custody arrangements would you like to have. So coming to an office with narrowly tailored examples of how you as a parent, as what would you like is going to be much more efficient for an attorney to defend and advocate than what I usually hear. What, well, whatever California law, just not having having a conviction is also impossible without having the knowledge. So educating yourself through my book, through your podcast, through my podcast, getting educated about what California law is, what's possible, and then coming to an office saying exactly what you want is going to make the process efficient, less expensive. Same for custody, same for division of assets, same for spousal support, for child support, for all aspects. Easier said than done because a lot of divorcing couples, they don't know what the other spouse financially looks like in what they have. And so a lot of the times I hear, well, I don't even know how much we got. I don't even know. Well, I know he was unfaithful. And when I hear that, or she was unfaithful, when I hear that, it means that the other spouse is also not honest in other areas of life, which could include financial picture. And then it turns out, sure enough, they transfer the money. You know, for example, speaking of international divorce cases, what I find in European clients, they usually have real estate. It's like my brain develops some system of assumption, which is not always correct, but sometimes they have real estate with clients from India, they usually transfer money to their family members. So I don't want to make more assumptions, but basically, in my experience, when that happens, we then go and do accounting. One thing I learned, I'm a lawyer. I gave up financial school and university and first semester. So what I do is I realize what I'm good at and what I need to delegate. And so what I do, I hire a forensic accountant and I tell them here's the list marital standard of living analysis, which means five years prior to the date of separation, create spouse of support analysis, what would be the cap, then division of assets and debt analysis, income available for support analysis, post-separation analysis, and also the tracing. So if we have an issue of another spouse transferring money, then we would like to see how much and then credit it back to those to the other spouse.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah. So basically gathering all of that information so that you have it available if it's needed to provide to those extra experts.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Correct. And if you if you're considering for divorce, going through divorce, then create with your spouse now some sort of platform, quicken, mint, quick books, whatever, where you put all your credit cards, everything into one system so that you actually know what the picture could look like when you are finally deciding to divorce.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, that's super helpful because then everything is in one place. You can get a snapshot of what all the assets are. Correct. Yeah. Well, Diana, thank you so much for sharing your insight and your unique perspective today. Your work is so powerful and a reminder that divorce is never just a legal transaction. It's deeply human, cultural, and even personal. For our listeners, how can they find out more about you if they happen to be in the California-San Francisco area?

SPEAKER_01 23:07

When they type in Google divorce like a boss, they will be able to find my book, my YouTube channel, and from there, there are many links to how to book an appointment with me and how to find me.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Wonderful. Listeners, if you're navigating divorce with international or multicultural elements and you happen to be in California, please feel free to reach out to Diana. And as always, if this episode resonated with you or someone you know that is going through something like this, please feel free to share. Until next time, I'm Carrie Jacobson and a reminder that divorce doesn't define you. It's how you move through it matters. Thanks for listening to the Drama Free Divorce Podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, be sure to follow, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs it. For more resources or to work with us, visit jakobsonfamilylaw.com. Until next time, stay grounded, stay informed, and stay drama free.