Herlihy Family Law

EP #6: The Hidden Role of Parenting Coordinators in High-Conflict Divorces with Guest Caroline Taylor

• Alison Herlihy • Episode 6

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Most divorced parents want to communicate effectively for their children's sake, but intense emotions and past conflicts often make this seemingly simple goal nearly impossible. When traditional co-parenting breaks down, a parenting coordinator can be the difference between endless court battles and functional solutions. Caroline Taylor, an experienced parenting coordinator with backgrounds in child development and counseling, joins us to demystify this crucial yet often misunderstood role. 

Whether you're considering requesting a parenting coordinator for your case, have been court-ordered to work with one, or simply want to understand alternative approaches to family law matters, this episode provides valuable insights into how these professionals can transform family dynamics after divorce. Visit hurleyfamilylaw.com to learn more about family law resources or to connect with experienced professionals who can guide you through your options.

You can contact Caroline here by visiting her website www.carolinetaylorlpc.com or sending her an email at caroline@carolinetaylorlpc.com

Visit HerlihyFamilyLaw.com to learn more.

Caroline Taylor:

The parenting coordination is very similar to a mediator and there are times that I would say that mediation is part of being a parenting coordinator. You have to utilize those skills as a parenting coordinator. So I've done mediation training to help with parenting coordination. But as far as the guardian ad litem goes again similar. A guardian ad litem goes, again similar. But the guardian ad litem I see is more of an advocate for the child's needs overall.

Intro/Close:

Welcome to the Herlihy Family Law Podcast, your trusted source for expert insights on navigating family law matters with clarity and care. Whether you're tackling tough decisions or seeking guidance for your family's future, we're here to help. Let's get started.

Alison Herlihy:

Hi, today we're diving into a really important topic for anyone who's going through a divorce or custody case the role of a parenting coordinator. I'm thrilled to be joined by Caroline Taylor, an experienced parenting coordinator who works closely with families to help manage and resolve conflict during these challenging times. We'll talk about what a parenting coordinator does, how they can help and why they can make such a difference for parents and children alike. Caroline, welcome to the podcast.

Caroline Taylor:

Thank you Glad to be here.

Alison Herlihy:

Thanks. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you ended up working as a parenting coordinator?

Caroline Taylor:

Sure. So I have a undergrad degree in child development from Florida State University and then a master's degree in counseling from Auburn a master's degree in counseling from Auburn and I've worked with kids in a bunch of different capacities throughout my career and really kind of drilled down on family dynamics and working with families in divorce situations. After graduate school, as I began working as a therapist and I had a really great mentor that was a psychologist and she paved the way for us the two of us went and became certified in parenting coordination and she really helped me understand and we learned together how to be parenting coordinators and how to help families that are kind of in intractable dynamics or in high conflict cases family law cases. So that's how I got here and really the role over time has changed. There's been some the AFCC, the Association of Family and Conciliatory Courts, has issued a few different guidelines throughout the years of parenting coordinators and so the role in and of itself has changed some, but it's the same general kind of principles.

Alison Herlihy:

Well, that's so interesting. I mean, I know from the kind of situations we see dealing with our clients who are going through divorce and custody cases. Intractable is a great word and high conflict is a really apt word, because I mean we just see that time and time again, especially when people are going through really intense litigation.

Caroline Taylor:

Yes.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, for those who aren't familiar, what exactly does a parenting coordinator do?

Caroline Taylor:

So in Alabama we don't have a statute that outlines necessarily what exactly the role is to entail, so it depends on what the order is appointing the parenting coordinator. But in general a parenting coordinator works with parents, kind of as the, with the, with the children in mind and the and the overall family system in mind, to make recommendations to the court in the event of impasse between the parents on parenting, general parenting duties. So that could be anywhere from extracurriculars to, you know, for the children to communication between the parents and things like that. So that's the general, I would say the general definition. There are other things that you can do as a parenting coordinator, but that is it in a nutshell.

Alison Herlihy:

In what types of cases is a parenting coordinator typically appointed or recommended?

Caroline Taylor:

cases are what we would term high conflict, which would be the families that have been in court on several occasions on modifications, or a family that has higher need for one reason or another. There's also families that a parenting coordinator can be appointed when they want to have more of a agreement-based approach to their divorce. So I'm seeing that a lot also is that you know two parents might go into their attorney's office and say, hey, we really want to work out our divorce situation you know our settlement together. And those people might not. They're the opposite of high conflict. They want to work with the family coordinator to come up with their general parenting plan.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, we might call that like a collaborative type approach, right? Yes, somewhat.

Caroline Taylor:

Yes, so so those would be the type families that parenting coordinators work with.

Alison Herlihy:

I know I personally have been seeing more and more clients who understand that maybe litigation isn't the best path and they're looking for alternative ways to try to do what's best for their kids, and I think a parenting coordinator can really help with that for their kids, and I think a parenting coordinator can really help with that. Yeah, explain a little bit about how your role is different from that of a mediator or a guardian ad litem.

Caroline Taylor:

So you know, I've obviously I've never served in the role of a guardian ad litem, so I can just say from what?

Alison Herlihy:

I'm not a lawyer, that's one thing.

Caroline Taylor:

That's right. So I can just say from what I have seen is that you know it is somewhat similar. The parenting coordination is very similar to a mediator and there are times that I would say that mediation is part of being a parenting coordinator. You have to utilize those skills as a parenting coordinator. So I've done mediation training to help with parenting coordination. But as far as the guardian ad litem goes, again similar, but the guardian ad litem, I see, is more of an advocate for the child's needs overall, and that is not as a parenting coordinator. While you're taking into account the child's needs overall, you're also incorporating what is helpful for the whole family dynamic, and so that's something to keep in mind that I think would be different than maybe a guardian ad litem.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, for sure. What kinds of issues do you typically help families resolve?

Caroline Taylor:

Gosh, there's so many. I just, you know, I would say probably the most um One that I work on a lot, I would say, is communication between the parents. So that's something as a parenting coordinator that I really like to work on is help the parents establish a new foundation for communicating with each other and working better together, so giving them skills, rebuilding their relationship in a more business-like format. So it's not, you know, taking the emotion out of it. So in that way, you know, parenting coordination is so much different than therapy. It's not process oriented, we're really looking at it's like results oriented.

Caroline Taylor:

Yeah, we're really looking at solutions.

Intro/Close:

Yeah that's what I was saying.

Caroline Taylor:

Yeah, so I you know, as far as issues that I've worked with families on, I would like I said communication, but also, you know, a lot of times it'll be more specific issues like substance abuse or um and how to navigate uh, substance abuse of a parent in the um, access to the child and monitoring um the substance abuse or it could be, you know, working with parents who have some kind of supervised visit issue or mental health issue and collaborating with the other professionals in the family system, so other therapists or the attorneys to work together to help the family have the best possible solution without having to constantly go in front of the judge for answers.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, it's interesting to me too that you would bring up communication, first and foremost because you know, I think a lot of times the reason people are getting divorced is because they've had such a major communication breakdown. But when, when children are involved, you know you've got to still find a way to work together and communicate for what's best for your children. Yeah, I mean, and I think that's what most parents want, even though it's kind of hard for them to see that.

Caroline Taylor:

Yeah, and it's a series of proposals rather than, you know, the deny, deflect, defend route. That is typical in families where there's, you know, divorce going on.

Alison Herlihy:

So an example of that would be like parent A says do you think Susie should play softball? And then parent B is like if you weren't such a blah blah, blah, blah blah, we wouldn't be in this position, right?

Caroline Taylor:

Exactly yes, and so what I would want parent B to say is I don't think Susie, you know, would be best fit for softball, and she played basketball last year. Can we focus on basketball instead? Or, if you, if she wants to play softball, could we work on a you know special lesson or something you know? So coming up with other solutions and ways to to compromise, to reach a um, to reach an outcome that both parents can buy into to a certain extent. Now, I think that this is a piece of the parenting coordination role. That is important to consider is that in the event of impasse between the parents, I always want them to exhaust all efforts to try to make solutions together, because they are the expert on their family. But in the event of impasse, that's when the parenting coordinator can make a recommendation directly to the attorneys in the court and, depending on the jurisdiction, the judge will either incorporate that into an order or sometimes has a hearing, but it just depends on where the parenting coordinator is in the state.

Alison Herlihy:

So that's the interplay with the court process there.

Caroline Taylor:

Yes.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, yeah, how do you typically work with both parents to help keep things fair and focused on the children, like what I was thinking when you were talking earlier? I mean, it's really important to keep it child-centered versus centered on the interpersonal conflict between the parents.

Caroline Taylor:

Yeah, so that's difficult, I mean obviously. But I will often let them communicate their positions and then we'll bring it back to OK. Well, what does your child think about this? And often in these higher conflict situations, the parents have differing ideas of what the child, what's best for the child. So in that, in that case and in the majority of the time in a high conflict situation, the child also has a therapist, and so I will often or a guardian and light him, or both, and so I will often confer with other professionals and try to keep it focused on what's most important to the child. So in that way, by bringing the child's therapist thoughts and ideas into whatever the impasse might be, you know when we're talking what are some of the biggest benefits you see when parents use a parenting coordinator?

Alison Herlihy:

How can that really help people that are in tough situations?

Caroline Taylor:

Well, I think there's a number of ways that it can help.

Caroline Taylor:

I mean just with a timing perspective on some of the more complicated family dynamics where, like I said, there might be a substance abuse issue or maybe you know, a supervised visit that needs to progress in a certain way. You know it would be difficult to get in front of the judge on a regular basis and have an updated plan of moving forward. So, from the simple fact of timing, it's helpful because we can get together, we can evaluate the progress. The attorneys can be looped in and there can be, you know, progress made on moving forward, whatever that may mean for the family. It's also helpful for other families to, like I said, kind of create that different foundation or structure for moving forward where you're going to have some, you know, a new standard operating procedure for the family that everybody's living by this new set of rules. So it gives you a new foundation. On the other side of the modification or the divorce and I think you know worst case scenario, the parenting coordinator can be an objective witness if it comes to that at the end of the case.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, kind of that barometer of who's being reasonable and who's being unreasonable. Right, yeah, and I tell you what I think is one of the biggest benefits of it. Right, yeah, and I tell you what I think is one of the biggest benefits of it. Well, it will. If a parenting coordinator is not involved, then a like Susie's birthday party that's on Saturday and it's not really a legal question, you know, and a lawyer is not the best person to handle that problem.

Caroline Taylor:

Yeah.

Alison Herlihy:

But that's who ends up doing it, and sometimes that's a good thing. Sometimes that's not a good thing.

Caroline Taylor:

And I think to your point with that is that if you are your client's advocate, then you, you know, are not necessarily thinking about how the advice or you may not be, you know, some lawyers do think about this but how your advice might impact the family system overall, kind of in the long run. And so when you're talking about the birthday party situation, your advice to your client might be something different than what would be beneficial to the long-term health and prosperity of the family.

Alison Herlihy:

So yeah, and I mean it's important to note that I mean lawyers are are duty bound to advocate for their clients, and so sometimes that might be in line with what's best for the family unit as a whole, but with some people, in some situations that might be adverse to what's best for the family unit as a whole. That's a great point, caroline. Yeah, what are some common challenges or misconceptions about what you?

Caroline Taylor:

do. I think some misconceptions might be. You know, you said how do you do it where? How do you do parenting coordination where it's fair? And I think maybe a misconception is it's not always fair, but it is always objective, or at least it should be. And so I think that that is something that I always talk to my clients about.

Caroline Taylor:

When it comes down to wait a minute, you're on his side or you're on her side, or you know that I'm trying to look at this. My job, my role, is to remain objective and to hear what both of you are saying and to help you reach a resolution that hopefully you both like, but or maybe that you both don't like, you know, or that we can compromise on, and so that is somewhat of a challenge to neutral and objective and help the client see that that's what's going on, that there might be issues that you know. On one issue, it might seem like the parenting coordinator could be on one side, you know, maybe the father's side or the. You know. On the next issue, maybe the mother's side or maybe has a mind of the parenting coordinator, has a solution of their own, and so it's important to just kind of, you know, maintain that objectiveness, and that's often a challenge you know.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, how is the parenting coordinator selected in a case? Do parents get to choose? Does the court choose or does it depend on the situation?

Caroline Taylor:

I think it depends on the situation. Often the court chooses, often the attorneys choose and it's just an agreement by the attorneys. There have been times where people have reached out to me just directly and said, hey, we want parenting coordination. That is more rare, but maybe a case that has our family that has had litigation in another state will generally reach out directly to me to try to get parenting coordination started. You know if they move or here or whatever, but it's mostly appointed, you know, I'd say, by a judge or by agreement of the attorneys.

Alison Herlihy:

What is there any advice that you would offer to people parents who are considering maybe asking for a parenting coordinator in their case?

Caroline Taylor:

One thing that I can't stress enough is that, you know, given that we don't have a statute in Alabama that directs parenting coordinators and the education that a parenting coordinator and training that a parenting coordinator has, I think it's important to fully vet their education, background, experience and, most importantly, training, so that you can know that the parenting coordinator that you've selected is, you know, upholding appropriate guidelines or has the training required to perform the role. So I think that that is I would say that that is the main thing, and also, I think to a lesser extent, it's good for the attorneys to have somewhat of a professional relationship with the parenting coordinator. So, as you're looking for a parenting coordinator, to run it by your lawyer and make sure that your lawyer is familiar with the process and feels comfortable with the parenting coordinator overall. But I would say the most important thing is the training.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, great, great point. What can parents do to best prepare to work successfully with a parenting coordinator?

Caroline Taylor:

I would say the first thing is understanding that it's not parenting coordination, it's not therapy. So you know there's lawyers that perform the role of parenting coordinator also, and so to consider that when you come into these meetings with a parenting coordinator, to conceptualize it somewhat like maybe in mediation, in that you are going to present some ideas or issues and then hopefully work out a solution, it's important not to, you know, have an idea of your position, maybe when you're coming into the meetings, but also understand that you're going to be asked to compromise and work with your co-parent for the betterment of your family. So I would say those two, those two things understand that it's not a process oriented, you know process that that you're not going through your emotional issues from your marriage or your relationship.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, Whereas therapy is much more about processing your emotions and this process is much more like problem solution. Problem solution, right. That's right, that's right, um, is there anything else that you want to add that we haven't talked about? That you wish people knew or understood more about the role of a parenting coordinator?

Caroline Taylor:

I think that it would be great if Alabama would have a statute. I think that that would go a long way in uniforming kind of the way that all parenting coordinators act and operate. And, like I said, you know, there's not just therapists that act as a parenting coordinator. Attorneys can also act as a parenting coordinator. So it's important to know that. Parenting coordination another difference in therapy is that there's not any kind of diagnosis that is given to either one of the parents or a child, and so insurance is not appropriate to bill. In parenting coordination. This is an alternate dispute resolution process and custody issue in most cases, so it's not appropriate to take insurance. So I think that that is important to know about the process distinction when can listeners learn more about you and the services you provide?

Caroline Taylor:

I have a website so you can just Google my name, caroline Taylor LPC, in Birmingham and also have an office in Mobile, and so you can just Google me and or you know my email address. I'm sure you can give it to them if they reach out to you directly.

Alison Herlihy:

I'd be happy to.

Caroline Taylor:

You can find me online pretty easy. You can also go to the AFCC website. There's a lot of information for professionals and for parents about parenting coordination and about the other roles that are held in in legal type relationships with professionals, and they have some great resources. So I would say check them out also.

Alison Herlihy:

Yeah, that's a great suggestion. I've been to a few of the AFCC conferences in years past and they're fantastic.

Caroline Taylor:

Yeah, and the professionals that are involved with the AFCC are always very well trained and knowledgeable and you know up on all of the research, and so it's a good organization to be a part of Definitely been my experience too.

Alison Herlihy:

Well, Caroline, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your expertise about parenting coordination For those of you listening. I hope today's conversation gave you a better understanding of how a parenting coordinator can support families in divorce and custody cases. If you want to learn more about parenting coordination or you have questions about whether it might be right for your situation, feel free to reach out. We're always here to help, and thanks again for listening to the Hurley Family Law Podcast. We'll see you next time.

Intro/Close:

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