EP #17: Protecting Your Privacy During Divorce with Guest Tim Hasser

Your phone can feel like a helpful assistant until the day it becomes a witness. Digital privacy is one of the most overlooked divorce issues we see, and it can change the leverage, safety, and stress level of a case fast.

Attorney Alison Herlihy is joined by Tim Hasser of Hasser Enterprises to map out the real world risks hiding in plain sight: persistent location tracking, shared iCloud and Google accounts, cloud backups, and the “set it and forget it” settings that keep syncing your life in the background. 

If you are starting the divorce process or think you might be headed there, this is a practical checklist for protecting your data, your location, and your peace of mind. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review. What is the first privacy setting you are going to check today?

Visit HerlihyFamilyLaw.com to learn more.

Transcript

Why Privacy Gets Overlooked

Tim Hasser 0:00

Most people are really not aware until it's too late. And that's uh it it really stinks, that's the case. But it's what we take for granted a lot of times when we say, Oh, our phone popped up and knew I was at Panera Bread to order this. But problem is that there that can be used unfortunately sometimes it gets you. And so you can often see surprises when you go into a case with how much location sharing or cloud access is actually going on.

Intro/Close 0:31

Welcome to the Herlihy Family Law Podcast, your trusted source for expert insights on navigating family law matters with clarity and care. Whether you're tackling tough decisions or seeking guidance for your family's future, we are here to help. Let's get started.

Alison Herlihy 0:49

Welcome back to Herlihy Family Law. I'm your host, Allison Herlihy, and today we're talking about something that can have a major impact in your divorce case, but often gets overlooked. Your digital privacy. I'm joined by Tim Hasser of Hasser Enterprises, who specializes in IT and cybersecurity. Tim, thank you so much for being here.

Tim Hasser 1:10

Hey, thanks for having me, Allison. I appreciate it.

Alison Herlihy 1:12

Yeah. So why is digital privacy such an important issue when someone's going through a divorce?

Tim Hasser 1:18

It it really is critical. Phones, accounts, smart devices, they hold basically the most intimate details of your life: text messages, photos, location history, financial records. That can really obviously affect a case if that's out there and in the open as you and starting early to get it done really can help protect yourself down the road to just avoid the accidental creation of a bunch of harmful digital evidence, essentially.

Alison Herlihy 1:44

Yeah, that's a great point. What do you think are some of the biggest risks that people don't realize that they're facing?

Tim Hasser 1:51

Typically, I would say the persistent location tracking is a big one. And when I say that, location tracking just in general, that's always being done that people may forget about. Cloud backups are also a very big thing, backups of phones or other devices, family sharing accounts also, or really any shared type of accounts can also come into play there as well.

Alison Herlihy 2:13

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize that they're sharing like an iCloud with their spouse.

Tim Hasser 2:19

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. The sharing is a big deal, and then of course, physical trackers and whatnot that we can get will probably get into as well, I'm sure.

Alison Herlihy 2:27

Yeah. Do you think that most people are aware that their information could

The Biggest Hidden Digital Risks

Alison Herlihy 2:32

be accessed or monitored? Do people even know about this?

Tim Hasser 2:35

Unfortunately, no. Most people are really not aware until it's too late. And that's uh it really stinks. That's the case, but it's what we take for granted a lot of times when we say, Oh, our phone popped up and knew I was at Panera Bread to order this. But problem is that there that can be used unfortunately sometimes against you. It's it's it can be you can often see surprises when you go into a case with how much location sharing or cloud access is actually going on. Yeah, it's typically much more than people assume or know.

Alison Herlihy 3:12

And I think some people may think I'm not doing anything bad, so I'm not worried about it. But one thing you might forget is for instance, you need to be able to go see your lawyer without your spouse knowing exactly when you're there. Absolutely. Privacy has implications for everybody, not just like a quote unquote guilty party.

Tim Hasser 3:31

Absolutely, a hundred percent. And that's really the main thing here is that you there's but both sides are going to be trying to do the same thing there in terms of consolidating your data and whatnot. And it's not that you necessarily have things to hide, it's just you don't want your entire life out there, and right, you know, and you don't want obviously someone that you're in an active lawsuit against to be able to have tons of personal information on you. That's just not a good thing ever.

Alison Herlihy 3:59

Yeah.

Phones And Unknown Tracker Checks

Alison Herlihy 4:00

Let's start by talking about smartphones. So, what should somebody check first on their phone?

Tim Hasser 4:06

So, for I would say the first thing would be location sharing, location sharing and unknown trackers, as if unknown trackers meaning if you're being tracked and it's a tracker around you or something tracking you that you are unaware of.

Alison Herlihy 4:21

Yeah, so that'd be like a physical device, like an air tag or something.

Tim Hasser 4:25

It can even be your iPhone itself, it can be many things like that. The unknown trackers would certainly include an air tag, items like that on the iPhone. In the actual find my app, there's a little button you can press on there that will actually pull up and search for unknown devices for you throughout the entire day. That's a great tip. You have your Bluetooth turned on. Yeah, and then Android, which is other main item, under their safety and emergency settings, they actually have unknown tracker alerts built into their phone where it will actually pop up and alert you, just like the iPhone will. Same idea. There's also some actual standalone applications that you can purchase, or I believe they're actually mostly free of charge that you can download apps on your phone that will also help help with that as well.

Alison Herlihy 5:12

So it sounds like with those, you can set it and forget it. Like you don't even have to think, I need to go check this. It just checks for you.

Tim Hasser 5:19

It will check for you, yes. And typically, if your notifications are enabled, you'll actually it'll pop up and say, Hey, we found this. And you can actually typically, since they put out a Bluetooth signal, it's a pretty weak signal, meaning that if you walk around and actually have a lock on the signal, it's like the hot and cold game when you're a kid's walking around. Are you hot? Am I cold? Am I hot? Am I cold? And so you can actually physically find where the device is, or at least the general pretty close specific location. Yes.

Alison Herlihy 5:49

Yeah, wow.

Tim Hasser 5:50

Within a few feet.

Location Sharing Turns Into Surveillance

Alison Herlihy 5:51

How common is location sharing between spouses, and why is that a concern?

Tim Hasser 5:56

So it is extremely common. Many couples will use the find my feature in iPhone. They call it FindMe. It used to be Find My Friends, and now they call it FindMite. I like to change the names every few years. But Google Family also has a similar, that would be the Android version of the Apple Find My. And they really have the sharing for convenience sake. And for me and my wife, yeah, it works great where I can see if she's picking up the kids or how close she is to get back home with the kids, something like that. But in the event of a divorce, that is absolutely something you don't want to see, like you mentioned earlier, if you're having to meet with your lawyer or something like that. So obviously, that that is a very big concern with the location sharing.

Alison Herlihy 6:41

Yeah, and when people get divorced, a lot of times it can be a safety issue too. If you've got a situation where people are fleeing domestic violence or something like that, and you're actually in danger from your spouse, you definitely don't want them to know where you are.

Tim Hasser 6:54

Absolutely. And when that's the case, what really comes into concern is your daily routines can start being tracked, and any new living situations or even like new relationships that you may be in, anything could all come up and be shown, and that could affect your case.

Alison Herlihy 7:09

Yeah.

Tim Hasser 7:10

Big time.

Lock Screens Passcodes And Cloud Access

Alison Herlihy 7:11

What what are some simple steps someone can take right away to secure their phone, other than what you already mentioned?

Tim Hasser 7:18

So the there's a few, there's a few things that you can do that are very simple just from the get-go. Uh there are trying to detect trackers in your location sharing is the number one thing that you can just go right into and turn off. The location sharing you can go right into and turn off. The tracker detecting, again, set it and forget it. Something that you can just turn on. It's really not a bad idea for anyone to have it on, really. Yeah, yeah. It's just a good passive, it runs passively on on your iPhone, so it really doesn't, meaning it doesn't take a whole lot of battery. Same for the Android, obviously. And it can just, it's so worth it. It's just to not have it is just is insanity in my eye. And then, and then of course, with with any location sharing, I typically just I recommend to any clients I have who reach out to me in this situation, I tell them to just go ahead and turn off their location sharing completely. Any sort of GPS location trackers that are or apps that have allowed access to your GPS location. I typically go ahead and recommend that all of those are turned off and you start turning them back on a use by use or need-by-need basis.

Alison Herlihy 8:33

I tell my clients too, and this seems like really obvious, but a lot of us don't think of it as just as simple as like your password or your pen on your phone. Like a lot of us, like your spouse probably knows that. And if you're getting divorced, you probably want to change that because you don't want them like looking through your phone every time you're in shower or whatever.

Tim Hasser 8:52

100%. And that's gonna be the face ID. We'll try your face once or twice and then typically ask for a passcode. And that's really moving into physical security. Obviously, yeah, like fingerprints are used sometimes. Correct. And you really don't want your devices ever sitting out, but it's bound to happen. It's just going to. Everyone has their phone on them at all times, and you can't always hold it, or you might not have a pocket. And so it can get put down or put somewhere else. We 100% recommend your iPhone and your Android are fully encrypted by your passcode. So if somebody knows your passcode, then that it's nothing's encrypted. If somebody gets a hold of an old backup of your phone, which could either be through an iCloud backup, or sometimes people can back them up directly to computers. Either way, if you have that passcode, then you now have access to everything that's on that phone. So that is that that is a very big deal being able to change your passwords and your lock screen passcode. For instance, real quick, on before this podcast, I'd go run, grab my iPhone. And in order to log into your iCloud account online, you have to have your username, your password, and then your iPhone will send you a multi-factor code. I don't have my iPhone, and there's a little known trick that you can actually go ahead and find the location with only the username and password. And so having your iCloud password changed is also just as important as changing your lock screen password as well.

Alison Herlihy 10:22

Yeah. Wow, I didn't know that.

Tim Hasser 10:25

Yes, it's a very big deal.

Social Media Silence And Account Control

Alison Herlihy 10:27

So we talked, we touched a little bit on like the risks of sharing accounts like your iCloud or email or subscriptions, or like some people even share social media accounts. What kind of risk can that create during a divorce?

Tim Hasser 10:42

Wow, yeah. So sharing sharing social media accounts, that that that can really be a big one there. So that that actually falls into location tracking as well. So specifically, if we want to get into social media, the number one thing about social media, especially in any sort of really any sort of lawsuit, and not necessarily even a divorce case, but just stay silent, radio silence online. Seriously, you want to, and by that, I don't mean just hey, don't post stuff. I'm sure you would agree as a lawyer, probably not never a good idea to make public statements or post things.

Alison Herlihy 11:22

I don't think there's anything you can post on social media that's gonna help your divorce case.

Tim Hasser 11:32

But yes, 100% I agree. And another big thing about that is we've had social media around for so long now. It is just your history on social media can go back 10 or even 20 years, and having your actual profile pages private is a very big deal as well. That's something that a lot of people just want to keep public, and I get that you want to stay in touch with people, but during a time like a divorce, especially, you really have to keep things very true and close to yourself, and you just it's never really a good idea to have lots of social posts while you're in in like you can easily make yourself look bad because divorce is a highly emotional time, so it can be really tempting to get on there and pop off with what you think is some kind of clever or insightful comment or something, but it that can really come back to bite you.

Alison Herlihy 12:26

But somebody else has your password, they could go on there and post things as if they are you, and then you're gonna be trying to explain, oh, I didn't really do that, and people may or may not believe you.

Tim Hasser 12:38

Yes, and that is very hard sometimes to prove whether or not you did or did not post it. Yeah. So, yes, that's and that that goes with changing passwords as well, changing passwords and always making sure that multi-factor authentication is enabled. If there's one thing we can really beat in with passwords is multi-factor authentication, it is so important.

Alison Herlihy 12:59

Um that's true for everybody, right?

Tim Hasser 13:01

Yes, true for everybody and true for everything. Obviously, here it matters as well. But when you do not have multi-factor authentication, I believe Microsoft released a stat two or three years ago showing that over 99% of emails that have been hacked in, I believe it was 22 or 23, did not have multi-factor authentication enabled.

Alison Herlihy 13:22

Oh wow.

Tim Hasser 13:22

Google has also released similar reports as well as Facebook, who runs Instagram and whatnot. All the different social media companies, they have also almost become their own almost an iCloud account, is like a Snapchat account almost because you can share your location through Snapchat.

Alison Herlihy 13:40

There's so much information on there, yeah.

Tim Hasser 13:42

Yes, you can share it through everywhere else. You can also message people through that. So there's a whole another list of messages and photos and things like that will also need to be private, and that you would need to make sure you're not either sharing with anyone or that you're not you just you want all your social media to be private during a time like this.

Alison Herlihy 14:03

Yeah. What types of information could your spouse potentially access through shared accounts, like shared cloud accounts or email?

Tim Hasser 14:12

Really, they can they can access pretty much everything.

Alison Herlihy 14:15

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize sometimes that you at some point chose to have all your photos and all your text messages synced to your cloud, which means your spouse can see everything you're doing on your phone, even though they're nowhere near your phone.

Tim Hasser 14:29

Yeah, just a quick list off the top of my head of messaging history, all your iMessages, any apps you have, location history, photos, browsing history, any of your saved passwords you have for other sites, any other devices you may have linked to that iCloud account or Google account? Man, it's just literally that that's just off the YouTube search history. Yeah, just all sorts of stuff, pretty much literally everything. Not sure of anything I can think of they could not access.

Alison Herlihy 14:59

So, does somebody need to, if they share accounts with their spouse, like email or cloud accounts, do they need to create entirely new accounts or is there another way, like an easier way to deal with that?

Tim Hasser 15:13

So typically the recommendation is to create a new account, but before you do that, you have to make sure that whatever information you have currently on the account, you either can try and back that up so you can transfer it for yourself, but also being aware of what information is on there. Yes, you can always go in and try to remove information that you do not like being visible to somebody who's on the other side of the courtroom from you. But just as a word of caution, it is very hard to truly delete things in this digital age nowadays. Things just typically are not ever truly deleted. If you ever really want to get scared, you can look at Snapchat's policy of their temporary videos. They actually can hold them indefinitely, and they do, and they do.

Alison Herlihy 16:06

Yeah. Tell people all the time the internet is written in permanent marker, it really is. There's no erasing anything.

Tim Hasser 16:12

There really is not, and that's one of the scariest things about it. And especially with our age group, when we were growing up, everything was so new, and we just posted our entire lives on social media. And some people are becoming more aware of that, but a lot of people still just you know use it, thinking of it more as just a little soapbox to stand on, as opposed to it's on this like about a bank account you're speaking out of.

Alison Herlihy 16:40

Yeah, when you think about the kind of information that's in there, yeah, that's a great, that's a great point.

Tim Hasser 16:45

Yeah, absolutely.

Alison Herlihy 16:47

Yeah. One thing I think is important to note too is like there can be potentially legal risks in accessing your spouse's accounts, even if you know the password. Absolutely depends. I mean, it I don't want to get too

Smart Homes Cameras And Audio Devices

Alison Herlihy 17:00

in the weeds on the on this, but if they gave you their password and they know that you have it, that's one thing. But if you just happen to guess it because it's your kid's birthday or something, you could potentially be running afoul of the law. So that's important to know too. And then on the issue of like physical trackers, if you place a physical tracking device in a vehicle that does not have your name on it, it it you are likely breaking the law and you could be prosecuted for that.

Tim Hasser 17:28

And that that brings up that that just sparked another big deal. So with tracking apps, and I'll see if I'm I can possibly present this real quick here. But with tracking apps, there are some very interesting items when it comes to that. Social media and location sharing, you can kind of see here down at the bottom that we have. When it comes to any tracking apps, though, just specifically looking at the little table I have on top, showing how you can figure out if you're being tracked on an iPhone or an Android. One one very important issue is whenever you get that notification showing you you've been tracked, always document it, always take screenshots, make sure a date and time are included because that is you can tell people all day and sing as loud as you want, saying that it was happening. But unless if you have proof and documented evidence, then it's basically useless besides knowing for your own sanity. And so always document things before you change settings. Take a snapshot of the setting before and after, so you know the date it was changed. So if any anything was accessed after from somebody illegally obtaining a password, that evidence would be thrown out. It's federally illegal to access other people's stored communications and information. It's a very written very clear. I have to know this as an IT guy, I'm not allowed to hack people. Yeah, it's against the law.

Alison Herlihy 18:58

But yeah, but like we were talking about earlier with all the sharing that people do as spouses, like if you can show that your spouse voluntarily gave you their password and they knew that you knew it and they never changed it, then they've put themselves at risk.

Tim Hasser 19:14

Yes. And a lot of these settings are by default with the sharing and stuff as well.

Alison Herlihy 19:19

Yeah, it's a really like fact-specific inquiry that depends on exactly what happened with those people in that case.

Tim Hasser 19:25

It sounds like it would probably be a he said, she said, saying, Oh, I didn't give her the password.

Alison Herlihy 19:30

Oh, I did give her and then the judge has to decide who they believe. Yeah, which no one's so why take the risk is the point. Yeah. Let's talk about smart homes. It seems like everything on earth is like Wi-Fi enabled now. Like I was seeing something about a smart microwave, thinking, what is that even for? But what kind of devices should people be thinking about on the smart home front?

Tim Hasser 19:55

Wow, yeah. So smart home devices are very sneaky. Smart home devices can they can really affect a lot of things. Specifically, just the number one issues that you would want to think about right away. Smart speakers like um Alexa or Google Home, like AI Assistant, they all have drop-in features where by dropping in, you can actually go in and listen, have a two-way conversation, is what it's meant for. But that could also just be a one-way audio recording.

Alison Herlihy 20:28

A listening device, yeah.

Tim Hasser 20:30

And then obviously, with any security doorbells, any security cameras in general, that they could either be smart or non-smart. Typically, there's always remote access with security cameras like ring or nest, which could also fall in to so ring is made by Amazon, and Amazon has family sharing accounts. The Nest is made by Google, Google has family sharing accounts. So there it's very common for all of these accounts to be shared. And the ring doorbells can just if your iPhone somebody had access to your iPhone, they can start seeing your daily routines and stuff like that, which is just very dangerous in general. Smart thermostats, even smart locks, there's many smart devices nowadays, and so really anything connected to the internet can record audio or video and typically takes logs as well.

Alison Herlihy 21:26

Even like a refrigerator, even a refrigerator.

Tim Hasser 21:29

Wow. A refrigerator is gonna take logs of times that you're passing it. It has automatic sensors that see when it needs to light up or when you open it. There's a lot of things that are taken as diagnostic data, so the manufacturer can one day look at it and see if they can improve their code, but obviously that data can be used against you. Typically, that's in some sort of terms of service agreement. That's a packet that's at the bottom of your refrigerator that you never even open up and see whenever you purchase it.

Alison Herlihy 22:00

I know ring like ring and other types of doorbell camera footage has become really common in divorce cases now. It's almost in fact I stay shocked at the number of cameras people have in their houses nowadays. Because it's it won't just be on the doorbell, people will have cameras all in their whole house.

Tim Hasser 22:18

Yes. Interior cameras, exterior cameras, neighbors have ring cameras that record audio as well. Exterior ring cameras that can 100% hear screaming, yelling coming from the house next door, even a few doors down if you're outside. Yeah, there's many smart devices that that can do that. I don't are you able to pull up the smart home devices chart there I had that kind of gives it a quick overview of the so these are main devices. Your ring doorbell, your Alexa, or Amazon Echo, Google Nest, and Google Home devices. Those are all devices that you have to go into individually and make sure that you're not sharing devices, you're not, you don't have any extra cameras that have been added in there that you may not know about, that may not be a good idea.

Alison Herlihy 23:05

Yeah, and so it seems like basically you're recommending going into these devices and either removing users that you don't want to have access to it or doing like a factory reset on it.

Tim Hasser 23:15

Either or factory reset's always gonna be your best bet, but typically if you have any issues, you can always call a company like us to help the actual companies themselves a ring, Amazon, Google, Ring being Amazon essentially, they are willing to help you. But again, when you call into a technician, a lot of times you don't really know which one you're gonna get. And so it's always good to go through and double check on your own and just look at everything.

Alison Herlihy 23:43

A lot of people don't have hours and hours to call 1-800 numbers and talk to somebody in a call center and figure out whatever it is. Exactly.

Tim Hasser 23:51

And that's the case, sometimes it's just easier to go ahead and start fresh.

Alison Herlihy 23:55

I know one thing I think a lot of people don't realize too is we have Google Home speakers in our house and they have a switch where you can turn the microphone off. Yes. And we just we leave the microphone off all the time. Then we turn it on and tell it something, and then we turn the microphone back off.

Tim Hasser 24:13

Yes, there's a button on the Alexa that does that as well, and then the little Alexa's that have cameras on the front of them where you can actually use those as a as a camera as well. They actually have a little slider where you can physically block the camera to where it's not recording or anything because they do sense when you're walking by now as well. They have little infrared scanners that will look for you when you're walking by so they can light up, try to get your attention.

Alison Herlihy 24:38

Creepy.

Tim Hasser 24:39

Yes, I know.

Alison Herlihy 24:40

If someone's just starting the divorce process or they think they might be heading in that direction, what are the top steps you think they should immediately take to protect their privacy?

Tim Hasser 24:50

Oh wow, yeah. So, number one, change your passwords, change all of your passwords, pass keys, anything related to the same. Absolutely. I typically start with my email because you can typically reset passwords to everything else through your email.

Alison Herlihy 25:12

Yeah.

Tim Hasser 25:13

So we usually start with email, but not change your password and and enable two-factor authentication. Always enable two-factor

Immediate Steps And When To Get Help

Tim Hasser 25:22

authentication. Usually that will either be through a text message to your phone, or you can actually have an app on your phone which is a bit more secure that you can use that will generate a new code every 30 seconds. Google has the authenticator app and Microsoft has, I believe they call it Microsoft Authenticator. Very simple to use and can really save your rear end sometimes. That would be the number one thing: passwords. Passwords, passwords, passwords, and multi-factor. Absolutely. And just because everything else, your social media, yeah.

Alison Herlihy 25:56

The email is like the key to everything.

Tim Hasser 25:58

Exactly. You can reset your password through your email for pretty much everything, including financial items. And so if your email is ever compromised, that's a big deal. Scanning for trackers and disabling location sharing, immediate number two. Number three, I would probably say to go ahead and just start creating new accounts that you can go ahead and make sure that you're not part of a shared account and create a just a fresh account that you can start from brand new and not have to worry about any sort of sharing. Hit your social media next and everything that you change or do screenshot, document, screenshot, document.

Alison Herlihy 26:37

If somebody has done all this, but they still think they're like being tracked or monitored somehow, what should they do? Is this when you need to bring in a professional to help?

Tim Hasser 26:49

There are times when yes, you would want to bring in a professional. There are there are private investigators or you can actually call the police as well. I'm sure you have plenty of resources there for that. I've I've actually been employed before privately to help with items like this as well. Because there can be times and devices out there that someone could purchase on the black market that may not pick up somewhere on an iPhone, who knows? It's not typically the case, but I have seen it before. Wow. So there are times when when professional help is absolutely needed, and even I would say just recommended, just especially if you do find any sort of information or documentation that you have been tracked or anything like that at any point, or that any of your information has been compromised, or that someone on the other side of the courtroom has gotten information that you did not know they had. That's probably when you want to bring in a professional to double check and figure out how they got that information, where it could be stored, how it could be accessible, who else can have access to it, everything.

Alison Herlihy 28:00

And it's important to know too, because like we touched on earlier, if you can show that information was acquired by illegal means, then you can you might be able to keep that evidence out of your case.

Tim Hasser 28:12

Correct. And a lot of things it is.

Alison Herlihy 28:15

Tim, this has been incredibly helpful. Thank you so much for your insight. And if someone wants to learn more or get help, professional help securing their data, where can they find you?

Tim Hasser 28:25

They can find us. Our website is hassirlc.com, H A S S-E-R-L-L-C.com, and they can always just call the office as well. Our phone number is 251-444-3773. We're always willing to help and always looking for people along the Gulf Coast that we can help out.

Alison Herlihy 28:44

Great. And for our listeners, if you're going through a divorce, this is your reminder to take your digital privacy seriously from the very beginning. Thanks for listening to Herlihy

Where To Get Support And Closing

Alison Herlihy 28:54

Family Law, and we'll see you next time.

Intro/Close 28:58

Thank you for tuning in to the Herlihy H Family Law Podcast. Remember, you don't have to face family law challenges alone. Visit Herlihy Family Law.com or call two five one four three two seven nine zero nine to learn more.