Tell Me, David
Listen to queer stories — past and present. Produced by journalist David Hunt, a regular contributor to This Way Out: The International LGBTQ Radio Magazine.
Tell Me, David
Beyond Belief: Jennifer Knapp's Musical Journey
Jennifer Knapp burst onto the Christian music scene in the late 1990s with an energy and honesty that resonated with thousands of young people searching for meaning and connection. Knapp’s first three albums sold over 1 million copies and earned the singer/songwriter two Grammy nominations and a Dove Award for New Artist of the Year in 1999.
But success took its toll. Exhausted by the pace and pressures of the industry, Knapp stopped performing in 2002 and left the United States, moving to Australia to clear her head and nourish her heart.
Seven years later, she returned to the U.S. with unexpected news: she was coming out with a new album, “Letting Go,” and coming out of the closet as a proud lesbian in a long-term relationship.
After a firestorm of controversy in the media, Knapp settled down in Nashville and settled into the work of recreating her career — this time outside of contemporary Christian music.
On the eve of her upcoming U.S. tour, Knapp sat down with David Hunt to recall the early days of her career and to discuss her recent work, which still focuses on the human search for love and meaning.
Produced for This Way Out: The International LGBTQ Radio Magazine.
David Hunt is an Emmy-winning journalist and documentary producer who has reported on America's culture wars since the 1970s. Explore his blog, Tell Me, David.
Music: Undo Me
David Hunt:
She came from Kansas, with a sound that shook — or should I say rocked — contemporary Christian music in the late 1990s. Breathtaking in her honesty, at times raucous, hellbent, she said, on pounding her guitar into splinters. At other times, serene, singing with the simple joy and simple faith of a new believer. A fresh, strong female voice in an industry that had fixed ideas about a woman’s place in society.
Jennifer Knapp challenged those conventions and carved out her own space — eventually — outside the insular world of Christian music.
Today, she’s out, proud and sometimes loud, writing and performing for a new generation of fans with songs that speak to the joys and trials of modern life: of love, longing, loss, and a recurring theme for Knapp, freedom.
Music: Remedy
I’m David Hunt. Jennifer Knapp isn’t in Kansas anymore.
At the height of her success as a Christian rocker, she found the pressures and pace too much for her sanity or her soul. In 2002, she packed up her guitars and moved to Oz — Australia —to clear her head and nourish her heart. She found the courage to return to the United States seven years later, still a rocker, still a Christian, but no longer part of the contemporary Christian music scene. In 2010, she released a new studio album, titled Letting Go, and let the world know that she is a proud lesbian.
Music: Dive In
Today, Knapp lives in Nashville, America’s legendary home of country music, with her longtime partner. She’s an author, speaker, and founder of Inside Out Faith, a nonprofit organization dedicated to advocating for LGBTQ+ rights within faith communities.
Knapp is about to begin a three-month tour of 32 cities across the U.S. but took time from a busy schedule to talk with me about her music, her faith and Kansas.
Our conversation got off to a rocky start.
David Hunt:
The nineties was an exciting time for Christian music…
Jennifer Knapp:
Oh, you’re already dating me. Thanks, David. It’s lovely. I didn’t mean to interrupt you but it cracks me up. I love the 90s.
David Hunt:
What I was trying to say, without making it seem like ancient history, is that a lot of new groups emerged in contemporary Christian music in the 1990s; groups that sounded more like Pearl Jam than Debbie Boone. Groups like Jars of Clay, Caedmon’s Call and Third Day.
Then there was Jennifer Knapp with her debut studio album, Kansas. Nobody had heard anything quite like it before on the Christian music scene.
When she first toured in 1998, she opened for two popular all-male groups, Audio Adrenaline and DC Talk.
“Nearly every night for four months,” Knapp recalled in her 2014 book Facing the Music, “I had to walk out onto a huge, dimly lit stage, alone, in front of over a thousand amped-up (mostly teenage) Christian music fans. All of them were there to have their heads blown off.”
And that’s what she did.
Music: Lay It Down (Live)
Jennifer Knapp:
I was definitely hanging out in “bro land.” As the only chick hanging around in that environment, I really got to experience a lot of latitude in, in the sense that as an artist and as a creator and as an understandable different voice inside of that space, I really, I, I did, I did really feel like I got a sense of purchase in when I showed up and I did my thing that people were like, oh, wow, like, this is a, a bit of a fresh breath.
David Hunt:
And Kansas sold more than 500,000 copies.
Jennifer Knapp:
Yeah. It went gold. It was shock of my life, really. <Laugh>.
David Hunt:
So what do you think it was in your music, in you, that people connected with?
Jennifer Knapp:
You know, it's been 25 years, over 25 years. So I've, through that time, so many people have shared with me their experience of this record. And I'm a, on a personal level, I'm bewildered. Like, I am shocked that people like what I do, <laugh>, I'm shocked that people still even listen to what I do, but particularly the impact of that record. I, I think one of the things that, that people tell me are they don't talk when they talk about that record and the songs from that record, most of what people share with me are the stories of their lives, the stories of their experiences with this song. I mean, they're not talking about me. They're not talking about my artistry or my craft or anything like that. They've just, they've managed to own, there's something about those songs that are so deeply personal to them that they've connected to them, that it's, I'm not really in the frame. My person and like my name is not really in the frame when they're talking about it. They're talking about the connection that they've had to their, in their religious experience, in their theological experience, in their like relationship to God and divinity. And, and for whatever ways they've processed that, whether they've kind of stayed church people or not been church people. At the same time, it makes sense because when I was, you know, as a kid writing those songs in my college apartment shared with five other women that's what I was doing. I was just kind of writing these prayers and these anxieties toward God and wasn't, wasn't in any way crafting a record for people to listen to. I was just having a private and personal experience. And somehow it's, it's kind of wild how that translated down the line for people kind of just using those songs in the same way.
David Hunt:
Some of the lyrics are dark, or vulnerable, lyrics maybe. I’m thinking of “There's a place in the darkness that I used to cling to that presses harsh hope against time.” Very poetic, but a very vulnerable place, I think. And maybe that's what people were responding to.
Music: Martyrs and Thieves
Jennifer Knapp:
The writing in that space was a couple of years after I had in air quotes converted to Christianity. You know, in the evangelical context, a lot of people, you know, make a confession, you know, get saved, right. And make Jesus your Savior. So I went through that process in and around a lot of evangelical peers that I had when I was in college. And even though I'd grown up with religion and gone to church like at Christmases and didn't really have an aversion to church and Christianity was part of my life and part of the fabric of everywhere that I grew up, but this new kind of concerted thing was a real contrast in, in a new experience of trying to kind of make sense of what, what all this meant when you get in and around and near a religious environment that says, you know, put away to the old, put on the new, and you are a sinner, so you need to not be a bad person. And you know, you're essentially a bad person before you know Jesus, and you won't be when you become a good person after you find Jesus. And that narrative, while I think it's somewhat makes sense in a very simplistic point of view, you know, life is complex, it's messy, and we're not always good, and we're not always necessarily bad either, like when we're not really focused in on our Christian experience. It, but it was for me as a young adult trying to kind of process that complicated blend of going, wow, I really genuinely do want to have a deep, meaningful spiritual life. There was something inside of the Christian tradition that made sense to me, and it was very beautiful and very poetic to me. I mean, the idea that God saw me and would be caring to me and be a father was an appealing motif to me.
Music: Hold Me Now
David Hunt:
In 2024 Knapp released Kansas 25, a new recording of her seminal debut studio album, Kansas. I asked Knapp what she heard when she listened to her performance on the original album, and how that compared to her interpretation of the songs 25 years later, on Kansas 25. She was in her early 20s when the original album was produced.
I told her that I heard a difference. To me, her performance on the new album is deeper, more layered, perhaps carrying the weight of all the living and learning she’s done since the late 90s.
Music: Kansas 25 Whole Again
Jennifer Knapp:
I deeply appreciate that you, you've, you've had that experience with the project because that was really the, the biggest motivation in going and re-recording that. And I guess maybe in the form of a question, it was like, I know I've been through a lot in, in the 25 years since that kid wrote that record. And in a lot of ways, I recognized, at least in my own person, that I was, I was the same person, but I was also different and not, you know, and not in some, like, wildly different way. I mean, I think my theology has evolved. I think the way that I approach my spiritual life and journey has evolved, but it still hasn't, there hasn't been a gap. There hasn't been like a severance between those two points, right? Between the person that started it and the person I was now. The curiosity was surely that has to sound different. Surely I sound different. The personal curiosity to me was that if I went back and I performed, that would, would that connection prove to still be there? And also would it also prove to sound and feel different the same way that you're describing? And, and I'm, I'm kind of personalizing that, but I was also thinking about that. And this is the real motivation to actually going and recording. It was with, particularly with my coming out. I came out in as gay in 2010, and at that point, part of the argument was like being gay and being a person of faith, particularly inside of evangelical communities, was often equated with by the, some of the gate conservative gatekeepers as a loss of faith.
Like a, an absolute failure. And I'm like, that's wildly not true. We're all out here demonstrating that, right? These audiences of people who've had like these, whether it's coming out and being gay or a divorce, or just some critical moment of, “I don't believe in heaven or hell anymore,” or “I don't believe that the Bible is infallible,” or all these kind of little nuances inside of the religious experiences that sometimes make us feel like we have to be disconnected if we're having those thoughts or those experiences. And with this record, I was meeting so many people who've gone through that experience and saying, weirdly, this music is, it means something different to me now than it did when I was 20. kind of at the end of the day, I'm like, all right, well, we're all a little bit different. We're all a little bit older grayer. I wonder if that will be reflected in the performance of the music and too, for the gift that it was when we were in our youth, wondering if there was a possible reboot that we could see that would demonstrate some kind of vision of that. And like wildly, I, I think the record has done that. I mean, my relationship with these songs is different. You know, I performed them differently than I did when I was 20 years old.
Music: Kansas 25 Visions
Jennifer Knapp:
When I, when I was go, like in the studio, for example, and singing these songs and having to, to, to go back, there were some days where I was in the studio going, talking about the girl who wrote them, like literally in third person. I'm like, oh, she was so young. Oh, she had so much energy. She had so much to say in this anxiety. And part of me laughing at her with good, appreciative joy and grace to be able to go, she was, she was earnest. That was the thing I loved about her, that she was earnest, even though, you know, when we go out with big hair from the eighties or, you know, the opening and me making fun of the nineties and feeling dated and old, to be really joyful of who we are in our journey means being able to look back and appreciating those moments, even though they might be embarrassing to the hairstyle that we chose, or what we were believing or what we were, you know, into at that time. To be genuinely in love with the person of who we are and what they were kind of looking for at the time. And to know that that actually does make a mark in the person that you are today. 'cause that is you, it really still is you. And that, that part of you is really important to appreciate why they were there and how they were having and living that experience at the time. And it's, it's not often as an artist, I think one gets the experience to go back. I don't know too many people who have gone back and rerecorded a record, particularly when it has the kinds of meanings that these these songs had. It was, it was intimidating to do, to have to meet that young girl. But also I think humbling as an, a fully grown adult over 50 now to <laugh> to say, listen, you know, she was a pretty good egg and she led you here to a place that you're pretty happy with. So give her, give her a little bit of slack and love her in some ways, I think sometimes that I didn't always appreciate had I not been through that experience of kind of revisiting that.
David Hunt:
One thing I can tell you about the Jennifer Knapp of the late nineties, early two thousands versus today’s Jennifer Knapp is that she was cranking out these albums like boom, boom, boom three albums in, what, three or four years. Now you’ve at more of a, let’s call it a reasonable schedule. Those early days must have been a whirlwind. I read that you had toured like 250 days in one year or something, plus you were putting out the albums. Did it feel like success or did it feel like the world was just outta control, or what, what was that feeling?
Jennifer Knapp:
Yeah, it certainly didn't feel like success. But you're, you're right. I was on the road a lot. I remember my second record, like, I was kind of actively songwriting kind of throughout just as, as life rolled along. But in particular, I, I remember the, the, the last record I released with Goatee Records was a record called The Way I Am, I think it released in 2001, which was only the next year after I had released my second record, which was in 2000. I believe those are the stamps on the recordings. And that's all to say is that I was in a tour bus and in the bowels of a lot of arena kind of locker rooms trying to write this record because the record company said, you need to get a new record out. And it was miserable and awful, and it hurt. And in one of the, the first experiences in my life where somebody who went from, you know, the quiet, the quiet writing, you know, just writing songs 'cause you had things to say and things that you were feeling and journaling to having to, to create content and build a brand. It, it just, it wasn't a really fun thing to do. So no, it didn't feel like success and it felt really labored. And, and now I think as I get older, I mean, there's always the pressure as an entertainer, honestly, to just stay in the marketplace. I mean, that's just, you know, if you, the, it's the same thing you hear, like for every creator publish, you know, publish or perish. What I learned from that is I actually, at least at this point in my life, I've, I've had a career, and if I am going to say something or share something out in the public sphere, I want it to matter.
Music: Don’t Believe Me
David Hunt:
You’re listening to This Way Out: The International LGBTQ Radio Magazine. I’m David Hunt, continuing my conversation with singer/songwriter Jennifer Knapp.
Jennifer Knapp:
I'm just not interested in writing a song for the sake of getting something out there. I'm just, I want to be able to express something and share things that are meaningful, that are, yeah, land. You know, I, I don't, I'm kind of over any kind of sense of maybe like, when you're a kid and you wanna be an artist, you really love people hearing you, and in an egotistical way, you know, when you sit down and journal, if that's the way that I was writing, it feels, it, it feels good to have people hear you and come alongside you and affirm, right, that think your anxieties or the things that you're worried about, it's always great to have an audience, but the older I get, I think the more I wanna actually serve my community <laugh> I think a lot more now, the songwriting that I do of a gifting outward rather than putting it out there and being seen or heard, if that makes any sense.
Music: Don’t Believe Me
David Hunt:
The newer albums — there’s a lot about personal people-to-people type relationships and the struggles of loving and living with somebody. But let’s just say they less overtly religious.
Jennifer Knapp:
As an artist, it's been really liberating to be able to continue to write without feeling like I have to uphold specifically Christianity. Like I'm servicing Christianity, but rather to have what most of us experience in our daily lives. It's like, what is it like to live? And like, at the end of the day, art to me, at its finest reflects who we are and what we're experiencing. And it's not always about making a commentary or leading you to a particular destination. It's just a, an insight into that day and that moment in time and, you know, the anxieties of the, the day or the joy or the love of the day.
And to be able to kind of, to be outside of contemporary Christian music. Which, you know, it's been over 20 years, ironically, since I've been there. You know, I, I think obviously because there is a spiritual side to me that comes out in my work, and I'm happy to share it. But I'm not interested in necessarily trying to kind of convince anyone that they need to have a religious journey. So that gives me an opportunity to kind of play with the depth of that spirituality in other relationships. So I, I love that. I really enjoy being able to do that. I've got a song about my grandfather; I’ve got a song about my dad. It's a thing that's reflected in my work that I've been really grateful to be able to know that I can still bring the spiritual side of it in that without offending people, and that I've still got people connected to it in a way that's been, I don't know, earnest. And it keeps me kind of coming back to, to exploring that art form and, and being able to participate with it.
David Hunt:
You sort of anticipated one of my questions, which was, if I was writing music, which I don't, I would want to have something figured out and then share it with people, but I get the sense in, in a lot of your songs that you haven't figured out the answer, that you're sort of exploring it and bringing me along for the ride. And I don't know if I like that <laugh> sometimes, you know, some of these I got kind of teary on, on some of these because I'm like, you know, like, oh, that's sad.
Jennifer Knapp:
Oh, I love it. I love it when I can make a grown man, grown man cry. Like that's, that's a pinnacle, really. But yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, I, I think part of it I, there there's a real theme to even the advocacy work that I do when I'm talking and kind of … I do a lot of advocacy in LGBTQ plus faith environments and going into Christian environments and really talking about the hospitality and the, the, the re-gifting of the voice of queer folk inside of their faith communities. I do a lot of that. And, but, so there's like a practical component to what I about to say. And, but there's also one in my art where my experience through contemporary Christian music and as an artist, oftentimes like creating music, right, with, with you write the song and hope that your listener has arrived at a destination or a way of thinking or an experience that you set out for them. To me, borders on propaganda. So I don't like giving people the answers. I have … I've already been here talking, right. I have plenty to say and plenty of my own opinions, but I am curious about what it means when any of us are able to actually talk about our own experience, rather than me trying to influence you and, and what you think. What I would rather be a part of is the opportunity to take the time to experience that depth, to be able to notice, notice the moments when that is happening, and when it is possible for us to be able to say, hey, this moment in time was significant, and I would like to learn, I would like to be able to delve into that more. I'd like a moment to be able to sit with that, or I'd like to have a way of staying connected to the memory of this moment. And that's what music can do. And that's what I really love being able to do.
Music: Better Off
Jennifer Knapp:
Now, I think when I sit down to write, I'm often in my mind is a picture of somebody else or, you know, sometimes myself, but going, man, what's going on here? And just diving into the feeling and the moment of that experience and not thinking about the outcome, but really trying to capture that moment in such a way that allows us a way to appreciate it, to punch back at it, to be disappointed or to be embracing of, you know, whatever event that is in its life. So, and it's wild. 'cause I mean, for those people who've been around and are familiar with my story, and they, there's plenty for me to be critical of my contemporary Christian experience and saying, hey, that's like propaganda that I don't want to be a part of anymore and celebrate this liberation. But there were some real gifts out of that that I think were critical in the development. You know, I was young, I was in my twenties, and I, I wouldn't exchange that experience because now it's, it's shaped the way that I view my art form. And, and yeah, has given me a sense of being able to appreciate what art and music does and what role, you know, saying, listen, I appreciate it giving me the opportunity to actually think about observing the world rather than, than describing it, if that makes any sense.
David Hunt:
Yeah. And I, I think some of, some of what's best about Christian music, especially from the era that we've been talking about, is an honesty that you didn't necessarily hear on Sunday morning from the pulpit, but these young artists were willing to talk about. I mean, there a lot of vulnerable moments in Bebo Norman's music. Derek Webb comes to mind as somebody who sometimes struggles and is not afraid to put that out there.
Jennifer Knapp:
Yeah. And I think of an artist like Rich Mullins too, who is you know, a pioneer really before of this kind of wandering believer, I suppose, a song called Hard to Get. Rich was really good at about being overwhelmed by his spiritual experience, and at the same time completely befuddled and, and lost, you know. God is one day and is is, and that God is extraordinary the next day is like, I don't see it. And to be able to talk about that journey. And I think there were a lot of us, particularly around that time in the nineties, like myself and Derek Webb and Caedmon’s Call, and a lot of artists like Jars of Clay that you'd mentioned at that time. We were in, in a lot of ways really, really young. And I think the beauty sometimes when we were young, right, is we're not afraid to say what we think. We're not really particularly worried about the consequences as much as when you get older. And our careers were young too, so we didn't really have a lot to lose in being earnest about our experience. That's it's not really something I think that you, you see a lot anymore. I think it was an interesting experiment at the time that you had so many of these artists happening in the nineties. And I think one of the reasons why that industry itself has kind of closed the door off to vulnerable artists that tell the real truth is it's been a, it's been a choice, I think the industry seems to have made over the last 20 years to go, well, we'd rather paint a good picture of what Christianity is, and the, the best version of it that with all the lot of worship music and things like that, that rather than let artists actually just tell the whole story of what that is. I don't wanna be too critical of it, but you can't tell that particular story about how messy the faith journey is without having a messy life, right? Not necessarily a rebellious or a dysfunctional life, but to be able to tell the truth of when you believe and when you don't and, and what that looks like on any given day. You have to be an artist that has lived that to have any integrity. I mean, nobody's gonna believe your song if you're just telling a story that you didn't live. Yeah. So if you aren't letting queer people in and you're not letting people release music about their faith, you're not letting young 20-year-olds push back against the pastor, you know, in something that they've said to you on a Sunday morning, then you're not really seeing that journey. I think those artists are out there. I mean even though they're not necessarily at the on Christian bookshelves anymore, like artists like Flamy Grant, I think about if you've not heard of her a drag queen who is like caught in between this pre evangelical life that really did mean something, and also willing to, to, you know, not, not afraid to speak truth to power. Same thing with another artist Semler, a former PDK queer person who's out, you know, writing incredibly effective and, and earnest music about their faith experience and not necessarily concerned about offending God. I mean, I think by all accounts, all three of us would probably sit here and say, we're not worried about God's ability to handle, handle anything that we can throw at, at, at them. So that's, that's one of the things I've appreciated about over the arc of time. And I think is kind of symbolic of what happened in the nineties in some of those. They, they, they opened Pandora's Box, let the young kids do their thing, and they, they went, oh, wow, that's really shows the way Christianity really is, and they shut the box <laugh>. And so there aren't a lot of people doing that anymore. We're doing it elsewhere.
Religion can be incredibly traumatic and a frustrating thing to go through. It may not necessarily be the vehicle or the environment that we wanna live in, but at the same time, however we explain or talk about the amazing joy, it, it is when we see some, we see the happenings in life that's a mystery and is overwhelming and sacred and just beyond the words that we have, right? The things that give you goosebumps and you kind of go, oh, this has been happening in my life all along <laugh>, right? I have those moments where we feel like there's been a presence with us through years and decades, even though we've never spoken a word about it. I mean, that those kinds of mysteries are what I'm talking about.
Music: Fallen
David Hunt:
And certainly, there are songs that you have, where I love the song but I don’t agree at all with the theology. But I can appreciate and experience and love the, the part that I love and just say, yeah, that's where that person was. It's not where I am, but, this song is a banger, or this really touches me, or the guitar work is crazy great. As I think you said earlier, not everything has to be perfect, right?
Jennifer Knapp:
No. And I, I think it's, you know, for that day and time, right? At the end of the day, any songwriter pretty much writes the song on that day. I mean, sure, you might've worked on it six months or a year, I don't know. But at some point in time, like when, I guess if you think about it in a life timeline, like when you write a song, that song is only up to the experiences you've had on that day. And when you put your pen down and said the song is finished, it doesn't, every minute after you put your pen down, life is going on <laugh>. It really is. So you're from that moment on, you're always going to be looking backward on that moment. So it, I just, I, I think it says it's reflective of, of our experiences and, and an ongoing journey. And if I can keep some threads, there's some songs I'm absolutely completely severed with. Like, I don't wanna play it anymore. I feel disconnected from it. I think there are some, you know, there's some of the songs that aren't on my playlist anymore, just because I'm like, man, I am genuinely not there. When I was rerecording Kansas, when I was singing Romans it's this, the chorus goes, I don't have to be condemned. Jesus saved me from the laws of sin. Like I sang the song, but I just cringe singing those words. I would never say or talk about the redemptive loving, compassionate thing in such evangelical terms anymore. I just wouldn't do it. I, in fact, I would work really hard to find another way to say that. So it makes it really difficult for me to wanna play and perform that song and repeat that language. But at the same time, the possibility of like, not trying to black it out, like for Kansas 25, I didn't wanna not put it on there because I didn't want this hole. I didn't wanna delete or edit the young woman who had originally wrote it or edit anyone else's experience. So I'm like, my insecurity, I'm willing to live with that.
I really am still open to the idea of liberation. I really think that there are these windows for every human being to be able to find hope in who they are and who they want to be. To not necessarily be offended by the metaphor in particular. And that's kind of a, a weird lesson I learned, even in my faith tradition. Like, I don't necessarily think that everybody has to ascribe to the path that I've walked and the fact that I persist with, you know, a Christian tradition. But yeah, I mean, we're always making adjustments in there and, and trying to find, I think the story that anyone tells us is really the challenge that any of us have when we're listening, going, hey, how are we alike? How are we, how are we alike? And what are you hearing that I didn't hear? It is always a moment. I think sometimes that any, anyone who's telling a story, whether, you know, we're just having coffee with a friend or listening to somebody else's art or song is, is always an opportunity to do that.
David Hunt:
What does the future hold for Jennifer Knapp?
Jennifer Knapp:
Well, I'm actually pretty much not gonna be home all the of this fall starting in September. I'm out on the road all through the Midwest and the West Coast. So I've got 35 some odd shows. So make sure and stop by jenniferknapp.com to see the fullness of the touring schedule. And I'm also really excited 'cause I just pieced together a little five song EP called Resonant. So I actually haven't at, at the moment that you and I are talking, I actually haven't announced it to the public, but I've got a small recording that's coming out of just some of my favorite songwriters who have been inspiring to me. Tracy Chapman, Patty Griffin, Lucinda Williams, Mary Chapin Carpenter, and an Australian folk artist by the name of Paul Kelly. I did it with a producer, Matt Odmark from Jars of Clay. So we just popped in together and, and did this fun little thing. So I'll be performing those out on the tour. And the last thing I'll say is, seriously, I am hanging out a a lot with a Patreon community. So if you're familiar with Patreon, it's a way to kind of get some intimate contact I do on online shows, a little faith meeting, a little social hour. We even have a thing called dare I say, the Stitch and Bitch. So we do a little knitting crafter circle, so I don't know if you're gonna have to bleep that out or not, but we're doing all kinds of things there. So there's a lovely little community behind the scenes, but make sure and get, see if I'm, see meet me in real life. I love getting to see and meet people out on the road. It’s going to be a good fall.
David Hunt:
I’d like to thank Jennifer Knapp for sharing her time and story for this program.
She is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, author, speaker, and founder of Inside Out Faith, a nonprofit organization dedicated to advocating for LGBTQ+ rights within faith communities. Learn about her music, her writings and her upcoming tour at jenniferknapp.com. For This Way Out, I’m David Hunt.
Music: Forget the Past
