Kind Of A Big Book Deal

Episode 8 - The Basics: Choosing Your Publishing Path: Self, Hybrid, Traditional

• Meghan Stevenson

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Thinking about publishing your book? There’s no one-size-fits-all approach, so it’s important to find the best fit for your goals. In this episode, we break down the three main options: self-publishing, hybrid publishing, and traditional publishing. Each path has its pros and cons, so knowing what to expect is key. Tune in for real-world insights to help you make the best choice! Have questions? Send us an email or leave a voicemail—we’d love to hear from you!

Find the 3Ps freebie here: https://meghanstevenson.kit.com/50230df9e1  

Writer Beware website: https://writerbeware.blog/

Hybrid publishers:
Fast Company Press, https://fastcompanypress.com/
Forbes Advantage, https://advantagemedia.com/
Greenleaf Publishing, https://greenleafbookgroup.com/
Authors Equity, https://authorsequity.com/

Episode 6: The Basics: Platform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awmSlWBZJ9A
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-6-the-basics-platform/id1793922838?i=1000697302735

Maddie: https://bit.ly/4cdHXAi

Ask Meghan a Question, https://sayhi.chat/KOBBD

Reddit PubTips subreddit, https://www.reddit.com/r/PubTips/
Reddit Publishing subreddit, https://www.reddit.com/r/publishing/
Reddit Nonfiction subreddit, https://www.reddit.com/r/nonfiction/

A larger list of writing subreddits, https://www.writersdigest.com/by-writing-goal/reddit-for-writers-writing-subreddits-to-explore 

Episode Highlights:
(0:00) Intro
(1:54) The three main publishing options explained
(2:17) Pros and cons of self-publishing: Full control but heavy workload
(6:31) Success story: A niche author thriving in self-publishing
(12:35) Avoiding scams in the hybrid publishing space
(14:03) Traditional publishing: The benefits, challenges, and who it’s best for
(16:06) The reality of bestseller lists and why traditional publishing helps
(21:09) Myths about traditional publishing: Separating fact from fiction
(23:07) Final thoughts: Making the best choice for your book
(25:04) Outro


Follow Meghan:

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  • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/megstevenson
  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meghanstevenson/
  • TikTok: @meghan.stevenson.books
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Have a great idea for a book but don't know where to start?MeghanStevenson.com/quiz


Traditional publishing expert Meghan Stevenson blasts open the gates of the “Big 5” – Penguin Random House, Simon & Schuster, HarperCollins, Hachette, and Macmillan – to share what every entrepreneur and expert needs to know about landing a book deal.

In episodes released every other Monday, Meghan shares wisdom and stories from 20+ years in publishing as well as interviews with authors, literary agents, and editors. She also answers questions from listeners like you.

Whether you are an experienced entrepreneur with an empire, or are just starting out – this podcast will help you understand what you need to do in order to turn your dream of being a bestselling author into real life.

Speaker 1:

The real decision between which way you want to publish your book, which way is right for you to publish your book, is really up to you. I love traditional for entrepreneurs, I love traditional for experts, and I'm going to get into why in a future episode. But you know, if you don't want to grow an audience, then self-publishing and hybrid publishing can be really great options. Right, you're here for your dreams. You're listening to this podcast for your dreams. So I want to be truthful. I want to tell you that this is the truth. I've had authors be very successful. Welcome to the kind of a big book deal podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn about traditional publishing. I'm your host, Meghan Stevenson. After working as an editor for two of the biggest traditional publishers, I started my own business helping entrepreneurs become authors. To date, my clients have earned over $5 million from publishers like Penguin, random House, simon Schuster and HarperCollins. In these podcast episodes, I blast open the well-kept gates to traditional publishing. I'll explain what every entrepreneur needs to know about landing a book deal without losing your mind. I'm going to share stories, answer your questions, interview the successful authors I've worked with and probably say platform more than a tech bro. So if you dream of landing on a bestseller list, but have no idea how. This is the podcast for you and I am so, so glad you're here.

Speaker 1:

Despite what you may have heard or seen in a Facebook ad, there is absolutely no right way to publish. That's because your right way to publish your book depends on your goals. Today, I'm going to share the three most common ways that entrepreneurs and experts become authors. I'm going to share a ton of stories and, as usual, offer some unsolicited advice so that you can decide for yourself how you want to publish your book. So there are three primary ways to publish your book. The first is self-publishing, the second is hybrid publishing and the third, which I work in and love, is traditional publishing. So let's start with self-publishing. This is also sometimes called independent publishing, or the authors that choose to do it call themselves indie authors. I've seen that a lot.

Speaker 1:

So the pro to self-publishing is pretty obvious. There's a really low barrier to entry. There's absolutely almost no barrier entry. Sometimes right, um, right now, if I wanted to publish myself as an author, I could take a word document, go to kindle direct publishing on amazon and publish that right, like I could. I don't want to, um, I have a lot of reasons why I wouldn't do that, but I could. Um, the other big thing that you'll see lot of reasons why I wouldn't do that, but I could.

Speaker 1:

The other big thing that you'll see on the internet about self-publishing is that you, as the author, get to retain all the rights and profits. People make this out to be a way bigger deal than it is in reality, and that most books sell less than 500 copies, particularly self-published books. So this isn't such a big deal, unless you tend to hit you big deal, unless you become an exception, which I'm going to tackle in a future episode. But really, unless you become Colleen Hoover or EL James or someone like that, it's very unlikely that this is going to matter as much.

Speaker 1:

The big con to self-publishing is that what I find most often is that people don't understand they need to do everything themselves. That people don't understand they need to do everything themselves. So they don't understand that they need to do all the editing or hire someone to help. They don't understand they need to do the cover and interior design Basically. In short, people don't understand how much work putting together a book really is. They also underestimate the amount of promotion that needs to happen and marketing that needs to happen both before the book is available and well after it. And they also really, really, really underestimate how self-publishing affects the rest of your career.

Speaker 1:

So what I want to say right off the bat is that self-published authors cannot usually again, most of you are not the exception leverage that into a traditional book deal. So it used to be the case that you could as late as like 2017, 2018, 2019, you could. I have famously helped a couple of entrepreneurs to do this, namely Denise Duffield Thomas. I don't think Denise would mind me dropping her name here, thomas, I don't think Denise would bother. You know, mind me dropping her name here. But Denise had two previous self-published books that did really, really well and you know we leveraged that into a book deal with Hay House, like that's awesome, but that doesn't happen as much anymore, and she had sold a lot of copies. You know tens of thousands of copies.

Speaker 1:

So what happens more often is that you know an author self-publishes with the idea that they might get a book deal later on or that a traditional publisher might pick up that book, but that's not going to happen, particularly if there were low sales. So if there's less than you know, 10, 20,000 copies sold, which is the, you know, the case for most self-published books. Like there's not really a future for you to have another, uh path to getting your book published. It's just sort of the unfortunate thing. It can kind of kill your whole career.

Speaker 1:

Another big con in my mind, uh to book, to self-publishing your book, is that there's really limited distribution. So you're not going to see your book in independent bookstores, for the most part Outside your local area. Certainly a local bookstore might be like hey, yeah, we'll stock a local self-published author, but for the most part independent bookstores are not going to stock your book. You're certainly not going to be in airport stores or anthropology or any of those kind of places where you occasionally see books. It's very, very unlikely with self-publishing. So those are our pros and cons. So in my mind, self-publishing still does work for some people. It is really great for memoirs, because memoirs have an uphill climb in terms of getting a traditional book deal and a lot of people want to write them and so if that's your case, or you're writing like a family history, something like that could be great for self-publishing. Niche markets and expertise also do great in this world, as do what I call kind of odd formats, meaning that your book is short or long or a journal or something like that. Right, the Shadow Work Journal did really really well because it's sort of a unique book in the self-publishing space.

Speaker 1:

So a positive example of someone who self-published very successfully is my client, daryl Kirkpatrick. Daryl is an expert in the FIRE community. So financial independence, retire early. And he did exactly that. He retired early and he wrote a book about how to save for retirement, how to master that, how to get early retirement, and he had us. When he came to me, he had a plan. He had a series, I think, of three to five books and they were all topic based, so individual topics. His first one was Can I retire yet, which is a great title for a book, and it was literally like five little short, 20, 30, 40,000 word books on these individual finance topics. He was talking to a niche market that he had direct access to this online FIRO community. His book was a little short, his audience was small but niche and engaged and he really wanted to self publish and so he did so very successfully. I think his book sold thousands of copies because he used a lot of great promotional tactics and he gave the manuscript early to people in the community that were influential. He did a really great job and so it really worked for him, got you know big stars in her eyes about writing a how-to book about what she had learned on her own personal growth journey.

Speaker 1:

And when she put it out it was crickets. No one really paid attention. It didn't get reviewed anywhere, it didn't get profiled anywhere. Kind of nothing changed for her. And she wished. She told me later that she wished she had talked to me about it or that she wished she had slowed her role a little bit in terms of when she published and who she published with, and I hear that a lot from my audience of like I really regret this, or I wish I had known more, or I wish I'd done my homework, or I wish I'd met you before I did this.

Speaker 1:

The other thing, too, is that I hear pretty often about authors that were scammed, meaning that you know, a publisher promised them the world and was essentially a self-publisher or what we used to call a vanity press. I don't know if y'all remember this, but when I was a kid you used to be able to like pay to have your poetry published in a book and it was basically a vanity project where you would pay them like $50 or a hundred dollars and they'd put your poem along all these other uncurated pay-to-play stuff. A lot of publishers now operate that way, that are like independent publishers. So just you know beware and there's a great website for this, Writer Beware that will help you with this if you are going the self-publishing market.

Speaker 1:

So the next option is hybrid publishing. So hybrid publishing is kind of a pay-to-play model, but in a very legit way. So the the pro side of this is that hybrid publishers, which include fast company press forbes, forbes advantage, green leaf, trying to think of some other ones authors, equity is technically a hybrid publishing place, although they tend to work with traditional publishers more in that model because they're all traditional publishing vets. These places offer professional quality books and without the barriers to entry of a traditional publisher, so it can be a really great way to publish your book in a legit way that looks the same as a traditional publisher, just doesn't require the proposal and so the rigor of getting an agent, all of that. The con is that can be just as expensive as other options. Hybrids often still have limited distribution so they still might not be able to get into bookstores. They still might not be able to get into bookstores, they still might not be able to get you into an airport and you're still really responsible for all the marketing, the promotion, the sales right. That's sort of a through line to all three of these options.

Speaker 1:

To be fair, but with hybrid, sometimes I've heard anywhere from you know, $ 25,000 to a hundred thousand dollar packages, which isn't outrageous in terms of like, you know, helping you publish a book, especially if you get a hundred percent of the royalty and earnings on the back end, but it is, you know, a big cost for a lot of people and so you want to take that into consideration. So hybrid, honestly, is best for people who don't want a traditional deal, right For people who do want that total creative control but who don't want to self-publish, who don't want to project, manage the whole thing, and those certainly who are willing to pay to get a high quality book. It also works really, really well for a niche market in terms of like. I have a client who's an executive coach. She works with a specific type of tech founder in a specific time of their companies. So that's niche of a niche of a niche. It's great for her to sign up with Forbes books, which is what she did right. So it's a great option and so it's really, really helpful. So I have a positive example and a negative example for this, of course, too. So my positive example is a book called Choose FI, which is one of the best finance books I've ever worked on, and it is by the guys behind the brand Choose FI. You know, fi is financial independence.

Speaker 1:

I got really into this FIRE community for a little while. I was like the editor for all the Firebooks, which was fun. They're too frugal for me personally, but they're really, really smart. So they did a great job right, they hired me, they hired a cover designer, they hired a proofreader, copy editor, interior designer everything they possibly could and they went with a hybrid press and they sold a lot of copies everything they possibly could, and they went with a hybrid press and they sold a lot of copies. A negative example is, honestly, someone who gets ripped off by a less than legit publisher.

Speaker 1:

There are publishers out there I think one of the biggest ones that is no longer in business the same way it used to be is Scribe Media. I've heard great things about Scribe. I've heard terrible things about Scribe from both people that are customers and people that work there. But you just want to be wary of people that publish like promise you the world, right. One year we had a hundred percent success rate and my assistant at the time was like we should put that on our website and I was like fuck, no, because I don't. Even if we have it this year, we probably won't have it next year, right?

Speaker 1:

So you want to make sure that you're watching out for that kind of too good to be true marketing, because most often than not in book publishing it is too good to be true, you know. You just want to make sure that's not the case, and that's especially true with hybrid publishers, because really it's the wild wild west out there of hybrid and self-publishing, and so you kind of never know what you're going to get. So just be careful and do your due diligence and look on. You know author beware. You know writer beware. The scammy. Writer sites in those communities can be really, really helpful, and we'll put some of those in our show notes for you today to help you in case you do decide to go the hybrid route. Also, the risk with hybrid is that you spend all that money and, like, you still don't sell a lot of books so you don't get an ROI on it, and that most often is then you and your platform.

Speaker 1:

We had a client once who really wanted a traditional deal. We told her she needed to grow her platform. She kind of didn't, and then she ended up at a hybrid press and she didn't sell very many copies, you know, and that's directly related to her audience building and so if you haven't listened to the episode on platform yet, you should, because that's like, so important to the success of your book overall. Okay, so the third option, in terms of how you publish your book, is my favorite, obviously because I work in it traditional publishing. Publish your book is my favorite, obviously because I work in it traditional publishing.

Speaker 1:

So there's a few pros here. The number one thing is they pay you right. It's essentially a, you know, profit share where the advance is given to you as an advance on earnings, so on future earnings, almost like a check into cash, a little bit of like here's some money for you to go write your book and then, when we all make money, we'll split the royalties, we'll split the profits. I'll do a whole episode on how to advance this work, because people get it all kinds of twisted, but essentially outside of hiring someone like me which we got a great question from Becky on this I'm going to answer in an upcoming episode. Thank you, becky.

Speaker 1:

Other than investing in a proposal with someone like me, your agent's going to work on commission, the publisher's going to pay you, and so you know you kind of have a limited investment going in. You also get professional help with editing, production, distribution, and because of that, traditionally published books tend to sell more. So you end up in those independent bookstores, you end up in the airports, you end up in everywhere books are sold is literally something we say, but it's true and so you end up everywhere you could possibly be. So it's a little bit chicken and egg, though, because in order to get a book deal, you obviously need to have the three Ps, you need to have that potential, you need to have that platform and you need to have a proposal, and the biggest piece there often is that substantial audience. Right, that's the biggest piece, that is the heaviest lift, that takes the most time and that is the most investment for you as the author in terms of your time and money. And you know the publisher needs that because they need to know that you're going to sell enough copies to recoup their investment. And they invest a lot of money. If they're paying you, you know, let's say $100,000, they're investing at least $150,000. So they're already in the red on day one with you at $250,000, right? So it's a big investment.

Speaker 1:

You want to make sure that you can sell at least 20,000 copies, if not more like 30. And you copies, if not more like 30, and sometimes more, in that first year. So the big con, so those are all the pros, right, they pay you, you get all this professional help. You get to say that you have a six-figure book deal. You get to say you're published by Penguin Random House, you get to be fancy, like that. The con is that there's a super high barrier to entry. The gatekeeping is real, right, and even in traditional publishing, you are still responsible for promotion, for marketing, for sales. You still have to build that platform and leverage it, right? So this is why traditional publishing is best for entrepreneurs and experts with large audiences, as well as, like corporate consultants and experts that do a lot of facilitation, speaking and travel, and essentially everyone who wants to be the go-to expert in their niche or expand into press, film or TV. So, like, if you want to go big and that is your goal, then traditional publishing is the way to go, because you are going to sell more books and you can leverage your proposal or not leverage your proposal. You can leverage your platform into book sales. It's very simple to do that. Also, if you want to be a bestseller, this is really your best bet.

Speaker 1:

We're going to talk more about bestsellers in the next episode, episode nine. But traditionally published books tend to be bestsellers way more often than self-published books. It really has to be that exception in the self and hybrid publishing world in order to hit a bestseller list. Right, and I'm not talking about Amazon bestsellers here, because that is bullshit. I'll get into that more on episode nine.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk about so many positive examples on traditional publishing. So someone that comes to mind because she's promoting her second book actually is my client and friend, melody Wilding. So Melody got a book deal with Chronicle for her first book, trust Yourself, which is an amazing book Go check it out. And she's publishing her second book, managing Up. So Melody had a unique expertise. She had coaching, she wanted to build her platform, she wanted to expand it and you know she's perfect for it. It's perfect book. It was a needed niche audience but it was big enough of a niche to matter and it was just really a great, great book, very positive experience. You know her first book sold well enough. It wasn't like a big bestseller or anything, but it has sold well enough over the last few years for her to get a second book deal and so that's really awesome.

Speaker 1:

Now a negative example, and I will say that majority of my clients have that positive experience. Okay, so I'm pausing here, guys, because if you're on YouTube, you will see my dog wants to get in my lap. She's not going to say no for an answer. So Madison is on the YouTube putting her little nose on the microphone. So if you hear a little weirdness, that's what that is. We'll see if my podcast producer cuts this out for the audio version, but if you don't, that's a good reason to like throw on YouTube. If you want to see a cute dog, maybe we'll put a picture in the in the show notes if this ends up in the audio version.

Speaker 1:

So the majority of my clients have had a positive experience with traditional publishers. That being said, if you've heard horror stories, you're not wrong. Those people are not wrong. Usually they are edge cases, usually they are anomalies, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So I had a client and she's lovely and she did not deserve this treatment at all, but what happened with her is that her literary agent got fired from a literary agency that she was at which is un-fucking-heard of. It's the time it's ever happened.

Speaker 1:

Um, to one of my clients in. You know, I've been a freelancer now for, or I've been independent for 13 years almost. And then you know I was in book publishing for eight, eight years before that yes, eight years before that, like working in-house, and it's the first time I had ever heard of that. Okay, so like it's really really rare. So that happened. She stuck around with the agency because the agency was awesome and she loved her editor, but then her editor left too and she got handed off to someone junior, which is unfortunate, but it does happen. So like that's what happened is that she lost her agent, she lost her editor, which is pretty upsetting, and then the publisher she was at didn't really see her journey through in the way they could have. And that was disappointing to her too, right, because she had all these high hopes and expectations that didn't come true. So that's really unfortunate. Her book still did well. Last time I checked it it sold over 40,000 copies, but ultimately the experience wasn't the experience she wanted, and that, to me, is a negative outcome. So that's the exception, but it can happen. That being said, you know it's really rare to lose your agent and your editor. That's like a double whammy. That very does not happen very often.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so I want to take a minute and just. Okay. So I want to take a minute and just knock out a couple of the big rumors that I hear a lot and the big misconceptions I hear all the time. So if you're anything like my clients, you may have heard that traditional publishers will steal your ideas, restrict your business somehow or take all of your money, and none of that is true. Publishers are in the business of intellectual property, so actually they operate completely the opposite. A traditional book deal will help you promote and leverage your ideas, grow your business, and they'll pay you up front, right, so it's all good that way.

Speaker 1:

You know the big thing about restricting your business they are going to do stuff that they're going to ask you not to, like create a product or a service that directly conflicts with book sales. Duh, they're going to protect their investment, right, they're not going to want you to give away a bunch of shit for free. That's not what they're going to do. So there's a few restrictions there, but for the most part, they don't wanna restrict your business. They certainly don't wanna steal your money. They got enough of their own and they don't wanna take your ideas. It's like not how they operate. And they're being so fierce right now around AI and copyright protection, because that's what they sell is people's copyrights, right? So, like, that's what I sell for my business. Technically, I am, you know, creating copyrighted material that my authors will then use as their own. That's what I sell.

Speaker 1:

So for me, the real decision between which way you want to publish your book, which way is right for you to publish your book, is really up to you. I love traditional for entrepreneurs, I love traditional for experts, and I'm going to get into why in a future episode. But you know, if you don't want to grow an audience, then self-publishing and hybrid publishing can be really great options. Right, you're here for your dreams. You're listening to this podcast for your dreams. So I want to be truthful. I want to tell you that because it is the truth. I've had authors be very successful through all three avenues of traditional publishing, self-publishing and hybrid publishing, and I've had people be really fucking unhappy with their decisions in each of those realms as well.

Speaker 1:

My goal is to help you make the best choice for you, and one of the reasons I actually started this podcast was to help educate folks on the process. I'm going to be honest and say that I used to try to convince folks to not self-publish, but then I went to therapy and, seriously, though, everybody's path is different, you're going to be the most successful when you follow what your intuition and what your dreams tell you to follow right. So just make sure that you're really thinking through all your options and make sure you know sort of what the lay of the land is right. So, to conclude, all of this rambly randliness, it's super rare that you can get a traditional deal after self-publishing, which is the biggest downside to self-publishing, in my opinion. Hybrid publishing can often be an awesome option for those who wanna publish professionally, but on their own timeline and with full creative control. But for many, a traditional book deal is a business decision and a lifelong dream, which makes building a platform and hiring somebody like me worth it. So think about all those options.

Speaker 1:

Let me know what you think. Leave me a voicemail. What are your questions? What are your thoughts? What are your concerns? Why do you think you're the exception to all everything I've said so far in this podcast? Love to hear it. Love to hear from you. If you want some better karma, go ahead and write a review. Leave me a note, send me an email. Everything you need for all of that is in the show notes. And until next time, cheers to your success. Thanks for tuning into the Kind of Big Book Deal podcast. Want to see where you're at on your book journey? Check out my free quiz at forward slash quiz. That's M-E-G-H-A-N-S-T-E-V-E-N-S-O-Ncom forward slash quiz. See you next time.