Kind Of A Big Book Deal

Episode 20 - How Self-Published Authors Get a Traditional Publisher

• Meghan Stevenson

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What does it really take to land a traditional book deal and is it even worth the leap from self-publishing? In this episode of Kind of a Big Book Deal, host Meghan Stevenson answers a common question from listener DeShanna, an educator with three self-published books who’s eager to break into traditional publishing.

Megan breaks down the 3P Framework: Potential, Platform, and Proposal, to explain what publishers are really looking for and why many authors stumble at the platform stage. She highlights the hidden costs of building an author platform, the importance of aligning your book with your business, and why multiple book ideas can be a red flag for traditional publishing.

Listeners will gain clarity on whether pursuing a book deal is the right next step or if self-publishing (or hybrid publishing) is actually the smarter choice. If you’ve ever wondered how to balance passion, platform, and practicality in your publishing journey, this episode will give you the honest roadmap you need.

Episode Highlights:
(0:00) Intro
(1:19) DeShanna’s background and book history
(2:39) Challenges of transitioning from self to traditional
(4:08) The 3P Framework: Potential, Platform, Proposal
(5:20) Why building a platform is expensive and time-consuming
(7:26) The importance of frameworks and clarity for authors
(10:09) Why multiple book ideas can be a red flag
(12:28) Two paths forward: build a platform or stay indie
(14:47) The sales reality of self vs. traditional publishing
(16:18) Choosing the path aligned with your goals


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Have a great idea for a book but don't know where to start?MeghanStevenson.com/quiz


Traditional publishing expert Meghan Stevenson blasts open the gates of the “Big 5” – Penguin Random House, Simon & Schuster, HarperCollins, Hachette, and Macmillan – to share what every entrepreneur and expert needs to know about landing a book deal.

In episodes released every other Monday, Meghan shares wisdom and stories from 20+ years in publishing as well as interviews with authors, literary agents, and editors. She also answers questions from listeners like you.

Whether you are an experienced entrepreneur with an empire, or are just starting out – this podcast will help you understand what you need to do in order to turn your dream of being a bestselling author into real life.

Speaker 1:

And I think a lot of people blow that off and focus on the Instagram followers or whatever instead, but it's both, because in order to sell a book and to have a best-selling book, you have to have both. I mentioned systems in an earlier episode. You have to have those systems as well, right, you have to be able to sell those books, and so that's really, really important. Welcome to the Kind of a Big Book Deal podcast, where entrepreneurs come to learn about traditional publishing. I'm your host, megan Stevenson. After working as an editor for two of the biggest traditional publishers, I started my own business helping entrepreneurs become authors. To date, my clients have earned over $5 million from publishers like Penguin, random House, simon Schuster and HarperCollins.

Speaker 1:

In these podcast episodes, I blast open the well-kept gates to traditional publishing. I'll explain what every entrepreneur needs to know about landing a book deal without losing your mind. I'm going to share stories, answer your questions, interview the successful authors I've worked with and probably say platform more than a tech bro. So if you dream of landing on a bestseller list but have no idea how, this is the podcast for you, and I am so, so glad you're here. All right, y'all. Today we are jumping into one of the most frequent questions that I personally get and it comes from Deshauna. What do I do based on what you mentioned in terms of being able to flip to the traditional publishing space with the newest book concept that I am working on? Okay, so before I answer this question, I want to give you some background on Deshana this question.

Speaker 1:

I want to give you some background on Dishana. She is an educator who has written three previously self-published books on how to improve teaching methods and pedagogy for special education teachers. Now, in my opinion, that's pretty niche, when making the jump from self-published to traditional niche is a good thing because that lowers the bar on sales to traditional niche is a good thing because that lowers the bar on sales, and by sales I mean previous books, not your next book. Going back to Tashana, my super quick assessment is she's published three super niche books before and two of those self-published books are workbooks. That's good to know. My next question is what's the book she wants? Traditionally published?

Speaker 1:

As it turns out, tashana wants to write a book that's different. I'm not going to give it all away on this podcast episode, but the idea is for a broader audience. That would be in a different category at the bookstore, which leads us to another factor in terms of the way I'm thinking, or the way that a publisher, editor or agent would think about. You know, a previously self-published author. That's another factor.

Speaker 1:

If you're rolling up having sold very few copies of a book about wellness and you want a traditional deal for another book about wellness, that's going to be a really hard sell. That's particularly true if there hasn't been any substantial change in your ability to sell the book. That's because most agents, publishers and even collaborators like me are going to assume that unless something has changed, you're going to get the same results, meaning that you're going to sell very few copies. You're also up against a convention that first books sell the best. Now, this is a convention. It doesn't mean it's always true, but in general, books are like movie sequels. The second, third, fourth don't tend to generate as much interest or as money as the first. Now you are probably already thinking about exceptions to this rule. Lennon Doyle is a great example, just like the Godfather is a good example. Right, there are exceptions to prove every rule.

Speaker 1:

All right back to Dashauna To evaluate her chances at a traditional deal. What we need to apply once again is my 3P framework. If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go back to episode four. You can also learn about that more specifically in episodes five through seven. So let's jump into that three P framework, if you know. You know the first hurdle is potential. Tashana's book idea, in my opinion, has potential. Moving on, the second P is platform, and this is where Tashana and a lot of people start to fall short, because her business is focused on education. This other area that she wants to write a book about doesn't really show up on her public-facing platforms. She's done a TEDx talk about the topic. That's got 19,000 views, which isn't bad, but everywhere else is really small, so that would need work. I want to take another brief stop in Tangent Town, my favorite place to be, because I see the situation a lot.

Speaker 1:

Tashauna wants to write a book about something her business is not focused on. That said, she does have experience in the topic and could be seen as an expert. That does cause a little bit of a disconnect because in order to build a big enough platform to land a book deal, she would need another way to monetize and build an audience around the topic she wants to write a book about, and that's a disconnect because your current business doesn't do that. So you've either got to like create a kind of second business or like a portion of your business that's dedicated to this second topic, or you've got to pivot business that's dedicated to this second topic or you've got to pivot. So it's a lot of work to build a platform big enough for publishers to be interested, and usually that work involves financial investment and involves a lot, a lot of time. So the math doesn't math when you're just building a platform to have a book.

Speaker 1:

The reason I say that is because it's a lot of work to build an author platform big enough for a traditional publisher to be interested. Building that platform often involves financial investment and if it doesn't involve financial investment, it involves a lot of time, so much time that it usually always is your primary business or your primary way of earning money. For you to build an audience just to get a book deal doesn't math out. The math doesn't work Because what a book would pay in exchange in terms of advance, in terms of royalties, just isn't likely to generate enough cash to justify that investment of time and money. Does that make sense? I hope it does.

Speaker 1:

Remember, building a platform takes more than just time. It also requires your money, your energy, a lot of effort. You've really got to want an audience for platform building to work. A book is not enough. You need more than a book to develop an author platform. I'm going to say that again you need more than a book, more than the dream of a book, more than the dream of a book deal, more than a dream of a bestseller list, to develop an author platform. Remember also that your author platform isn't just numbers.

Speaker 1:

So when Dushana left her voicemail, she said that she's going to rely on her own story, as well as stories and expert advice from others, to write. While this totally can work, I often reference or use an author's personal story, case studies from their work and outside expertise and research in the books that I personally work on. What she said in that voicemail also reveals something. It seems like she hasn't developed a framework for the topic she wants to write a whole book about, which would be a red flag if she had a platform, which she doesn't, because she hasn't really monetized the topic she wants to write a book about yet. So that's the platform, right? I'm talking about her audience. I'm talking about what I was able to find when I Googled her, but I'm also able to see what her platform is just based on, how she's talking about it If she hasn't done the work to understand what other people want to know in this, to verify that there's enough demand, all these sorts of things. That is part of platform building too. There is writing in platform building and content development certainly, so that is platform.

Speaker 1:

And it's not just Deshauna who's coming to me at this point or in this stage. I don't mean to throw her under the bus or like make fun of her or any of that. I would say that most of the would-be authors who reach out to me and my team have these two problems they don't have the audience and they don't have the content developed. They don't have the clarity, and that is really the author platform. That's really what an author platform is. Sneakily, it's like not only is it the followers of the audience, but it's also like the frameworks and the methodology and the approach, and I think a lot of people blow that off and focus on the Instagram followers or whatever instead. But it's, it's both, because in order to sell a book and to have a bestselling book, you have to have both. I mentioned systems in an earlier episode. You have to have those systems as well, right? You have to be able to sell those books, and so that's really, really important.

Speaker 1:

So let's go to the last P, which is proposal. This is moot. I actually don't talk about proposals when you don't have a platform. There's no point, like.

Speaker 1:

A lot of people want to talk about proposal, but I feel like that's this attitude I see in publishing. Sometimes that drives me nuts from would-be authors, where they focus on the wrong things. They're focusing on the tax liability of their advance instead of their platform, or they're focused on writing the book or what their table of contents should be, because that's easier than saying, okay, how the fuck am I going to sell this thing? How am I going to grow this platform? Those are hard conversations to have. Those are hard questions to answer. It's a lot easier to play in. That's like how could I write a great proposal, land, but that doesn't really serve you, right, because the 3P framework is there for a reason. Those are the steps you need to work through. So, do you have potential, deshana? Yes, do you have a platform? Well, no, okay, we got to pause there. We can't talk about the last P. We got to hone in on this platform question because that's going to help us know whether traditional publishing is right for us and whether this leap from self to traditional publishing is what's going to happen. So in her voicemail she mentioned both wanting to think through what's next and that she has multiple other book ideas percolating after this book, which actually is a yellow flag in my mind, not the thinking part love some thinking but rather the multiple book part.

Speaker 1:

So a subtle difference that I see between indie or self-published authors and traditionally published authors is the number of books y'all publish. Most of my clients publish one book, maybe two. That's partly because they might only have one book idea, because that's their expertise or their zone of genius. Either that, or everybody involved wants to maximize the sales of book one, and we'll keep promoting that basically in perpetuity, until there aren't any more sales to be had there. Or everybody involved wants to maximize the sales of book number one and we'll keep promoting that in perpetuity until there aren't any more sales to be had. This might be why James Clare has never written a follow-up to Atomic Habits. He's still selling Atomic Habits.

Speaker 1:

Either way, there's usually a lot of time between books for traditional authors, as well as a lot of strategy and thinking and planning around what book and when. Which leads me to another point. When you want to sell books, focus is key, because books need a lot of permission and marketing in order to sell, which is also why self-published authors tend to sell less, because oftentimes they don't have that same focus. So let's get back to our main focus after another trip to tangent town, which is how you jump from self-published to traditional publishing. So let's say Deshauna or, for that matter, you is really committed and passionate about multiple book ideas. Traditional publishing is likely going to frustrate the fuck out of you, partly because traditional publishing moves slowly and partly because you're going to have to wait on all those other ideas. You won't be able to be as multi-passionate as you want to be.

Speaker 1:

So I have two answers really for Deshauna and anybody else trying to make the leap from self-publishing to traditional publishing. So they're not really answers, they're more options. So the first option for someone in Deshauna's position, which more specifically is she has a book idea of potential, she has expertise in this arena, but her business isn't specifically about it and she definitely needs to build a platform. The first answer is kind of obvious. It's like okay, well, now you have to go build an author platform around this book idea, which, for Dashauna and anybody else whose business isn't completely aligned with their book idea, would require either pivoting the existing business and or creating a separate entity where you talk about this issue. If your education business can survive without social media or personal branding, that actually gives you a really easy opportunity to try out this idea on social without you know, writing a whole book about it. You could even use your own current accounts, because your pre-existing business and book idea have some overlap, though you could reach out to your new target audience through your existing business, especially if there's overlap in terms of the audience.

Speaker 1:

Regardless of how you build an audience, though, I would encourage you to take your time. Don't rush the book, don't rush the process. Really focus on finding out what this audience, like the future audience for your book, want and need from you, and starting to deliver that. Taking that approach takes more time, for sure, but also will make a far better book in the end, for sure. However, that's a really long road and I know it seems daunting. It can feel harsh, it can feel hard and there's no guarantees of success. There's no guarantees of success in publishing, you know at all. So I would completely understand if you don't have the time, the interest or the bandwidth to deal with all of that, which leads me to my second answer, or my second option, and that's to continue self-publishing and or look into hybrid publishers. So there's no shame in that game and, like I said before, I'm not judging right.

Speaker 1:

Traditional publishing isn't right for everybody. Based on what Deshauna said about wanting multiple books in the future, remaining an indie author could be the right path. Only you know the answer to this. The big downside, in my mind, is that you will likely reach fewer people and make less of an impact with each book you write. But what a big impact is to me might not be what a big impact is to you, so your results may vary.

Speaker 1:

Self-published authors can sell a lot of books when they're able to market and sell those books to an existing audience. The problem comes in when you don't have an audience. You don't market and therefore don't sell. That happens in traditional publishing as well. Right, we see it a lot with fiction, or when we take a chance on an author when their platform suddenly changes. But that also, that sales requirement, can be a big reason why it's challenging to jump from self to traditional, because you have that sales requirement. So this is all to say, like that leap is challenging and it's more than just hey, like I have this new book idea, like it's different. It's more like, okay, the three Ps still apply. Like you still have that potential, you still have that platform. You still have to have a proposal eventually once you have a platform.

Speaker 1:

But also, then we have to explain this previous history and luckily for Deshauna, it's pretty easy. It's a niche audience. She's self-published. Two of them are workbooks. They're just for those clients. This is a different business. Right, we could make that argument, but in order to do that, she would need to pivot her business or add a different stream of content, different offer, all those kinds of things in order for her to be successful. And that's going to take a lot of time and energy and probably several years to get there, which she might not be interested in, and that's totally cool.

Speaker 1:

So I hope, deshauna, this episode has helped you and really all of you who are in the process of considering your publishing offers. Please, please know there is no right or wrong to publishing your book and that every situation is nuanced. What's going to be best for you, as we discussed in the episode on alignment, is what's aligned for you, what feels good, what feels right. I hope this episode in particular, as well as that one, just helped you see how nuanced books and authorship and publishing can be and how much agency you, the author, have in terms of choosing which way you want to go.

Speaker 1:

If you do want to know where you are individually on the path to a traditional book deal, I've got a quiz for that. Check out the show notes for a link or you can go to meganstevensoncom slash quiz to learn what you need to do to get kind of a big book deal like so many of my clients have. And until next time, cheers to your success. Thanks for tuning into the kind of big book deal podcast. Want to see where you're at on your book journey? Check out my free quiz at meganstevensoncom forward slash quiz. That's M-E-G-H-A-N-S-T-E-V-E-N-S-O-Ncom forward slash quiz. See you next time.