Get Aligned To Your Book Deal with Aiko Bethea

This week’s guest is Aiko Bethea. Aiko is a nationally recognized thought leader, educator, and facilitator who advances transformational and accountable leadership through executive coaching, practice-based learning, and systems-level change. She is the founder of RARE Coaching & Consulting, where she supports leaders and teams at Fortune 100 companies and global nonprofit organizations. Her work is grounded in a powerful leadership framework that helps individuals anchor in values, align intentions and actions, and lead with accountability—tools she uses to help leaders build cultures of trust, clarity, and impact.

Aiko has served in executive roles with the City of Atlanta, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. She also led the Daring Way™ and Dare to Lead™ facilitator communities at the Brené Brown Education and Research Group, where she designed the global belonging strategy for a network of more than 1,500 facilitators.

A sought-after speaker and trusted advisor, Aiko has been recognized by Forbes as one of the top seven anti-racism educators for companies and named by CultureAmp as a leading voice in inclusive and equitable leadership. Her writing has been featured in Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and The New York Times bestselling anthology You Are Your Best Thing, edited by Tarana Burke and Brené Brown.

She holds a law degree from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a bachelor’s degree from Smith College. Her upcoming book, Anchored, Aligned, Accountable: How to Transcend the Bullsh*t to Live a Transformational Life at Home and at Work, will be published by Penguin Random House in April 2026.

Find Aiko on social
facebook.com/RARECoach
instagram.com/rare_coach
twitter.com/rare_coach
linkedin.com/in/aikobethea/
linkedin.com/company/rare-coaching-consulting

Find Rare Coaching at www.rarecoaching.net, and the RARE resources page at www.rarecoaching.net/media-resources/. Preorder Aiko’s book at https://rep.club/products/anchored-aligned-accountable. 

Episode Highlights:
(0:00) Intro
(1:32) Guest introduction: leadership coach Aiko Bethea
(4:11) Defining the “bullshit” that blocks growth
(7:26) Why leadership begins with inner self-awareness
(9:14) Why most people misunderstand their values
(12:08) Turning values into behaviors and boundaries
(15:28) The Anchored, Aligned, Accountable framework
(17:02) How values guide decisions and prevent regret
(22:20) Why leadership requires acknowledging power and identity
(25:44) Why people struggle with accountability
(28:04) Accountability through curiosity instead of blame
(31:27) Why the book uses real-life scenarios for learning
(36:32) Channel one, two, and three listening explained
(39:36) Lessons from writing a book over several years
(50:36) How authors can use values to guide their book
(57:21) Advice for entrepreneurs pursuing a book deal
(1:05

Have a great idea for a book but don't know where to start? MeghanStevenson.com/quiz


Traditional publishing expert Meghan Stevenson blasts open the gates of the “Big 5”—Penguin Random House, Simon & Schuster, HarperCollins, Hachette, and Macmillan—to share what every entrepreneur and expert needs to know about landing a book deal. 

In episodes released every Monday, Meghan shares wisdom and stories from 20+ years in publishing as well as interviews with authors, literary agents, and editors. She also answers questions from listeners like you. 

Whether you are an experienced entrepreneur with an empire, or are just starting out—this podcast will help you understand what you need to do in order to turn your dream of being a bestselling author into real life. 

Transcript

Values As A Boundary Compass

Speaker 0:00

And then the other aspect is it tells you easily what your own boundaries are. So that anchor into values is so much more than just this true north. It's a measurement for, you know, are you living your life in accordance to how you want to? It tells you how you can engage with people up front and let them know what you expect. You make decisions with intentionality. It allows you to not live this life of regret.

Meet EICO Bathia And Her Book

Meghan 0:25

Welcome to the Kind of a Big Book Deal podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn about traditional publishing. I'm your host, Meghan Stevenson. After working as an editor for two of the biggest traditional publishers, I started my own business helping entrepreneurs to become authors. To date, my clients have earned over $7 million from publishers including Penguin Random House, Simon Schuster, Harper Collins, and Hay House, just to name a few. In these podcast episodes, I will blast open the well-kept gates to traditional publishing. I'm going to explain what every entrepreneur needs to know about landing a book deal without losing your mind. I'm going to share stories, answer your questions, interview the successful authors I've had the pleasure to work with, and probably say platform more than a tech bro. So if you dream of landing on a bestseller list but have no idea how, this is the podcast for you. And I am so, so glad you're here. Y'all, I am thrilled to bring you another fantastic client interview guest appearance today. So welcome to the pod Aiko Bethea. So Aiko is a nationally recognized thought leader, speaker, and facilitator. She actually leads thoughts, y'all, not just sit one of those people who says, I'm a thought leader and then does says the same shit, who advances transformational and accountable leadership through executive coaching, practice-based learning, and systems level change. She is the founder of RARE Coaching Consulting, where she and her team of executive coaches support leaders and teams at Fortune 100 companies and global nonprofit organizations. Her work is grounded in a powerful leadership framework, which we're going to talk about a little bit today, that helps individuals anchor in values, align intentions and actions, and lead with accountability, an approach she uses to help leaders build cultures of trust, clarity, and impact. Aiko has served all over the freaking place. She's been an executive or in executive roles with the city of Atlanta, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. I hear that all the time because that is based here in Seattle, where I live and where Aiko used to live, but I can't, I have never said it out loud. So the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, also everyone here calls it Fred Hutch. She also led the development of the Daring Way and Dare to Lead facilitator communities at the Brene Brown Education and Research Group, where she designed the global belonging strategy for a network of more than 1,500 facilitators. And she continues to support the leadership development program at the Brene Brown Education and Research Group. Yes, I dropped that name. So let's recognize the impact of that. As a sought-out after leader and trusted advisor, EAiko has been recognized by Forbes as one of the top seven anti-racism educators for companies and was named by CultureAMP as a leading voice in inclusive and equitable leadership. Her writing has been featured in the Harvest Business Review, Forbes, and the New York Times bestselling anthology, You Are Your Best Thing, edited by Tirana Burke and Brene Brown. So Aiko is also a recovering lawyer with a law degree from the University of Carolina at Chop, North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and a bachelor's degree from Smith. I should have known he graduated from Smith. Her upcoming book, Aligned Uh or Anchored, Aligned, and Accountable, How to Transcend the Bullshit to Live a Transformational Life at Home and Work will be published by Penguin Random House right now, like when this book comes out in April, or when this podcast comes out in April of 2026. Iko, welcome to the pod.

Speaker 4:04

Glad to be here, Meghan. Thanks for having me.

Defining Bullshit And The Hamster Wheel

Meghan 4:06

Okay, so I have to start. I'm really fucking excited to talk about this book today, you guys. I feel like this book has been in the making for like eight years. Because it has, it literally kind of has. So I want to start by talking about the subtitle because we work on a lot of leadership books and business books, leadership books, they're kind of dry, they're sort of boring, they're very vanilla, right? And that's kind of intentional. But your book comes in hot with a framework for transcending bullshit and transforming our lives and work. Can you share how you define personally and professionally the bullshit so that everybody's on the same page in the context of your work and this book in particular?

Speaker 4:48

Oh man, there's so much bullshit. But I think about it the things that uh are present themselves as barriers or obstacles to us being connected, for us having rest, for us making decisions that we feel proud of, for us showing up as closely to our aspirational selves as possible. And some of the examples which I go through in the book just include things like um community and family of origin. So the stories and things that come out of that in terms of the narration, like Meghan is the oldest child and the oldest daughter, and therefore she should X, Y, and Z. Or in our community, our family, we never do X, Y, and Z. Our people like us, we uh uh we always X, Y, and Z. And it's so ingrained in your DNA and your belief and your story about the world and yourself that it can be a hindrance because you never question it, it's just there. Um, there's so there's just so many uh levels of it, even in terms of our ego. So ego in itself isn't bad, it's like a net neutral, but it's when ego is also doing other things as well. Like I want to be in the front, I want to be the right person, I want to X, Y, and Z. Perfectionism. So there's just a slew of things, but many of them are so internal to us that we don't ever notice it. But yet they dictate our um acts and omissions quickly. Like we don't even weigh it into pros and cons, or as that third rel that's acting on us, we just are making decisions, acting as if they're net neutral or objective, or that we wrote everything down in a concrete way of our pros lists and our cons list, and they're actually buried. And unless we excavate them, look at them, and name them, they're always going to be acting on us. And we're always reacting. And so, therefore, you can't live the life you want. You can't really uh take the actions of the person you aspire to be. You stay on a hamster wheel.

Meghan 6:44

Yeah, I I see that a lot. I see that a lot with like the people that want a book deal but like don't want to do the work. They they'll throw all sorts of excuses at me, women especially, right? It's always the kids or the family or the job or whatever. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, it is what it is in that regard. I mean, I think this book in many ways is about leadership, but I also noticed a lot of concepts throughout that are really about ourselves and our awareness of how we're showing up and these beliefs that sort of unconscious, implicit sort of run underneath as like our operating system almost. So, did you intend when you wrote this book to also write a kind of sneaky self-help book? Guys, disguise as a leadership book? Because when I was reading it, I was like, you could go to coaching or therapy, or you could read Igo's book.

Speaker 7:40

Well, I think um people think about leadership as if it's just these, uh, this skill set and these tools that you do in a vacuum. But your ability to do them and the way that you do them has so much to do with your inner landscape. And because the vantage point in which I'm coming from isn't as an attorney per se, but more of an executive coach, I'm thinking about the whole person. Like the barriers in why somebody does something isn't usually because they don't know how to do the thing. Because they can Google anything, or AI will tell you right away what, oh, if you want to give feedback, these are the steps you take. But in terms of the inner landscape and understanding what the barriers are for your for you to execute, are to execute in a way that aligns with who you want to be and the impact you want, that's the internal work. So you can read as many Forbes magazines, articles, and HBR articles, but the way and the how in which you do something and even your intrinsic motivation to do it and take it on has a lot to do with your inner landscape. And if you don't do that work, it's gonna be misses all over the place, or the impact that you have is not gonna be the one that you want.

Finding Two True Core Values

Meghan 8:52

That's awesome. Okay. So when we talk about, there's a lot of books about becoming your highest self, right? And acting in alignment with your beliefs. Where do you think folks get that wrong? Where do you think people get stuck on the hamster wheel despite all their best efforts and the goals they set?

Speaker 9:10

Okay, so I completely agree. Just like everybody and their mother is a coach, everybody has done the values exercise, right? Some of the values exercises are like they're top five values, your top, etc. Uh, what I've learned with coaching and working with folks is that uh people haven't even done that work about really what are my top true blue values in terms of dictating who I am at my core and want to be. So folks will say, um, oh, my top two values are faith and family. Because they sound great. That's what I kind of want them to be. And because I'm adhering to the bullshit of this is how we are, our community, our family, all these other things. People say that without really thinking about the things that weigh down on them, how they would want to make a decision, how they want to feel later, the impact they want to have. So they haven't actually threaded the needle on really what are your values that you would want to dictate who you are and the impact you have. And that idea of being um wise enough to not say faith just because that's what everybody wants you to say or what you wish you would say versus what they truly are. When I um really nailed down what my top two values are, they were things that I would have, well, one was was one that I would have never guessed, and it was loyalty. And I never would have said loyalty until I did the work, and this was over a several month span. So it's not that you just get down here in 30 minutes, what's your top two values? You're actually threading a needle, and when you got the 15 and the 20, et cetera, you're looking at why. Why did I say those? What's the common thread? What's the commonality? So it's not even about the word, like the word loyalty, because I know what the behaviors are around it. Oh, I want people to tell me the truth no matter what. And I want people to invite me to tell the truth no matter what. And to me, that's what loyalty is. Whereas somebody else will say, Oh, then your value really is trust. Not even matter the word. It is the behavior because now that's what I'm gonna hold myself accountable to, and that's what I'm gonna be seeking and realizing. Wow, this is why I'm not in alignment with these people, this person, or this organization. And that's why the behavior part is most important. When people see that, they're like, oh, the behavior is what allows you to increase accountability, to measure your fidelity, and also sometimes to measure things like your own somatic ease. Like, oh, what's going on in my gut or what's happening for me right now that doesn't feel right? And you realize, oh, it's because I have to keep covering all the time, and I can't tell this person what the hell I really think, or they're not allowing me to, or this person, I they went over here and said this, but they're not telling me to my face. They're not telling me, or later they say, Oh man, yeah, I knew that back when. Well, why didn't you tell me? And for me to understand that is what the highest value is, or for me, I can now also create those boundaries with people in terms of saying, like, if I'm leading a team, you know what, this is really critical to me, is that you never hide the truth from me. If I'm messing up, whatever, you're gonna tell me no matter what. My commitment to you is gonna be something that's not gonna get in the way of that, right? Is going to be that I'm gonna try my best not to punish you or be reactive about it. If I do, call me on it, because sometimes I might be activated. But I am asking you and giving you permission, tell me your truth no matter what. Like otherwise, we're not gonna, the trust isn't gonna be there, the connection is not going to be there. But many people don't do that level of the work. So it's not just oh, faith and family, it's what makes me tick, what creates connection for me, not not just fitting in, but connection with people. What makes me feel separate from folks? What is it that is going to make me keep investing in relationship or things or activities or my time? And I can get these threads together. What's the impact that I want? And that's gonna tell me, oh, this is what no relationship with me can do without in terms of a healthy whole one. Loyalty. That's for me. For somebody else, of course, it could be something completely different.

Meghan 13:24

Thank you. Because I did that exercise just very briefly yesterday, and one of the values surfaced immediately, which was integrity. Um, because something that makes me want to tear my hair out is when people say something and then they're not backing it up, basically, right? Um, or they act out of integrity.

Speaker 13:43

So the behavior for you for integrity is you do what you say you're gonna do.

Meghan 13:48

Fuck yeah, I do.

Speaker 13:50

Somebody else it would be like, oh, it's that's reliability or something. But for you, that to me, and for you, the behavior is integrity, you say what you're gonna, you do what you're gonna what you say you're gonna do. So now somebody knows that's Meghan's value, not the word integrity, because for a lot of people that can mean, oh, I hear a lot of people saying for integrity, um, what do you do when nobody's looking? Bullshit. I want you to do it when people are looking, not looking, whatever. But for you, it is do what you said you were going to do. And now, if I know that, I know that I'm not gonna be cutting corners. I'm gonna say, you know what, I'd love to be able to, but I can't because of X, Y, and Z. Or, hey, you know what? I'd love to do that, but I'm probably not the best person to do it. Because it may have to do with competence too, like, oh, I can totally nail this for you. So maybe the person you want to do. And that's going to be important to you, right? Instead of me not showing up, me doing a shit job and acting as if I could do it really well. So now, because you simply know that, not that your value is integrity, um, but the behaviors that you expect, you can set a boundary and expectations for people across the board.

Meghan 14:59

Yeah, isn't that so helpful? But that made me think of the second one, which is I think reciprocity and like proactivity, proactivity, like people taking the initiative as well, because it's like I can't do everything, I don't want to do everything. And so that's part of it as well. Is me as a leader is like almost like personal responsibility. I don't I'll have to work on that a little more. That's very draft one, but I think it's it's just what you said and put words around in terms of this. And this is actually like the beginning of your framework. So the book is called Anchored, Aligned, Accountable. And so these values that you're bringing up are really the anchored. I would be curious why you limit the values to two, because like you said, most exercises at least have three to five, if not more, like way too many.

Speaker 15:46

Yeah, I think you'll uh in executive coaching or what have you, when we try to support people, we want like these big things to come all the way into focus for somebody. Um, when you have more and you're saying three, four, five, et cetera, then it's a dilution point, right? But if you're doing the work to understand why this one, why that one, you're gonna find core threads for your compass, like your true north. And I would say most coaches know this exercise backwards and forwards in terms of naming the top two values. They don't always go to behaviors, they don't always go to accountability, they don't always go to boundaries, which is where I try to take the granularity down to. Um, one of the things you mentioned in my bio is that I uh had led for quite a while the Dare to Lead communities and daring away communities for Brene's organization. Even in her work, her her exercise includes top two values and behaviors. And in the book, what people notice is that I actually go to the idea of, well, this is what leads to allowing you to measure accountability. This is what should dictate what your actions are. This should actually tell you what is the impact and alignment, what you'd want from your values. And then the other aspect is it tells you easily what your own boundaries are. So that anchor into values is so much more than just this true north. It's a measurement for, you know, are you living your life in accordance to how you want to? It tells you how you can engage with people up front and let them know what you expect. It can help you to make decisions really quickly when you feel like something's off or the vibe is weird here. And you go to those top two values, oftentimes with my clients and with me as well. They're like, oh shoot, this is because this is in breach of my values, it's not how I want to be. And now they can either get back into alignment or reconcile. This is why in this moment I'm choosing to do something that feels out of alignment. And so they have this degree of intentionality around it. And when you make decisions with intentionality, it allows you to not live this life of regret. Because you know exactly why you did something that was not in alignment and you're making this decision. But when you don't have that at all, you're just out here doing shit. You're just out here adhering to bullshit, not knowing why you made that decision, feeling like crap later that you did X, Y, and Z. But in this way, if I start off with these are this is my do or die truth here. I know why I'm cutting off relationships or creating different boundaries with people. I know why I'm not gonna take that job, or when I take that job, I'm gonna have some real val, real um distance in certain ways. You know, we say um high um investment, low in terms of, hey, I'm going to be here present, high engagement, low investment. I'm gonna be present on a job doing what I need to do in my role, but low investment, you're not gonna get my emotional investment in this because it's not alignment with my values, and I'm probably making a plan to exit at the same time.

Meghan 18:51

That makes so much sense. So initially, like I'm gonna circle back around did the issue of alignment or the c the conflict in your values come up in the process of writing and publishing this book?

Speaker 19:10

Uh I know it came up many times during writing the book, but in terms of in relationship with the book, um yeah, I would say it came up in a few ways. One is even asking people what they think. So I um, you all, your team collaborated with me on it, the book, and even when I had a thought and I couldn't fully um maybe articulate it, and when I got it out there, I'd want, you know, Blair to be at a like, does that make sense to you? And I'd be like, she's not really telling me the truth. Like things like that would happen where I'd second guess, like, you know, it's not that I'm going to change something because you did or didn't think it made sense, but I need you to tell me the truth. Like, that's some shit writing. I go, that like and you're the only one who's gonna get that, and no one else is gonna get that. We need to find another way to say it. So there'd be moments like that, or if I had somebody else doing a third read on it, I'd be like, are they telling me the truth? So are they, can I trust them? Like this loyalty thing would come up. The other part is my second value is justice. And in justice, what it looks like in terms of behavior is that people are um historical um context is always acknowledged. And the impact on people, especially folks whose voices and well-being has not been centered, is also elevated. That to me is what justice looks like. And when I was writing this book, it was really important for me that um one, the reason why I pushed myself to write it was because I'm like, one, there's not a lot of books published by black women or women of color. And I was like, I want to be a part of changing that stat. Um, two, I didn't want to put something else out there where somebody who looks like me or has lived experiences like me are like, what the hell is this? This shit does not relate to me. She does not get it because she doesn't understand, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I was like, I want to make sure it's expansive in my perspective, lived experience, and other people's. And so that is where that um value of justice was coming up. And as you know, like you said, this book has been in the making for a long time. Um, and not the idea of it, but also the process of it. And when the administration in the US changed, there's a lot about the language I used or what have you. And oh man, this idea of you know, the book having a degree of appeal towards reader versus not, and what that would look like is taking out certain components that were clearly about identity and power. And identity and power are net neutral and are important to speak about whenever you're talking about one leadership, I believe.

Speaker 1 22:08

Yeah.

Speaker 22:09

But it was like, oh, but when it's gonna be a banned book because you're talking about X, Y, and Z and all these things. And the decision was all of the narrative or anecdotes in the book we kept the same. The identities of the people are the same. Um, I don't think you can talk about decision making and leadership without understanding what experiences are in the room and your impact on people. And as you know, in the book, one of the things I talk about is I anchored aligned accountable is not just a framework, it's a description of space. Spaces where people are anchored in their values, aligned in terms of their impact and action, but they are accountable. And there are very few accountable spaces, I think, in organizations. And of course, what we're seeing now in these global levels as well. So I'm talking about anchored, aligned, accountable spaces, which are different from safe spaces. And I have a commentary about why safe spaces don't work. I talk about the evolution towards brave spaces, which was a great improvement, you know, where um uh two professors that I name in the book, Brian Auroro and um he also has a partner, Kristen, I can't remember her name last name right now, where they coined that because they were doing social justice work, and they needed people to be able to say things that didn't adhere to this as a safe space because you're gonna feel unsafe when you're saying things that are countering um a majority in the room. And then we have psychological safe spaces, which you know really well, it's a buzzword. Everyone talks about it now based on um Amy Edmondson's work, but none of those have a requisite that you acknowledge power and identity and you name them. Because you can't talk about a space where people can show up and we're accountable without thinking about the impact we have on people, whether it's intentional or not, based on just walking in the room. When I come into many rooms, I'm already at a deficit, I'm already seen as being behind the ball. And if somebody is a leader there in the room who is um who I report to doesn't recognize that, how do they create a space for me to have voice? If they don't name it. You're the only woman in the room, but I'm not gonna acknowledge it at all. But I'm gonna ask you to say things that are daring, brave, and counter to. Or I'm gonna ask you to describe an experience or to share your perspective, your lived experience when nobody else in this room may even have ever had that experience, but I'm inviting you to do that. So I need to speak to what some of the barriers could be already and mitigate their impact. But those spaces of safe spaces, brave spaces, and psychologically safe spaces, none of those have that as a requisite. But if you be anchored into your values, accountable for your impact, I need to know that, hey, people have to say that wasn't my intention. Great, that wasn't your intention, but you need to be accountable for what the impact was, whether it's intentional or not. That means that if you use a word, yeah, you didn't know that's what that word meant, but it has this impact of silencing people or sending the message of these people don't belong here or they're less than be accountable for it.

Meghan 25:18

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Speaker 25:19

And the same in terms of I can't even be accountable for it unless I am committed to ensuring that my actions are aligned with these values. And guess what? I can't even do that when I don't even know what my values are, or what's even important, or what I'm willing to be held responsible for, or what's I named to be my true north.

Meghan 25:41

That leads me right into my next question, which was around accountability and like, why do you think people struggle so much to admit they fucked up?

Speaker 25:50

Yeah, um, the coach of me wants to be that wants to say, Meghan, why do you think that is?

Meghan 25:56

I think it's because it it involves humility, which is something you bring up. I think it challenges our ego that wants to believe we're right about everything. It I think psychologically it's really fucking scary. And most people have never been taught to truly do it, they don't have the skills.

Speaker 26:13

Yeah, so I think yes to all of those, and I think also people like to be liked. People want to be liked and they want to be in connection with people, and we're wired that way. So if I'm gonna say something that's hard and maybe it's even hurtful to Meghan, and then Meghan may think I'm the villain, she may not like me, she's gonna avoid me, she's gonna ask Yan Z, I'd rather not. I want to maintain that relationship and that connection more than I want her to be held accountable. And if it's something that is harming or hurting me, many of us will say, I'd rather take a blow than to rock the boat. Or if I'm the one in the team meeting who says the thing that everybody knows that Bob is the weak link here and he's always coming late, turning in stuff late, etc., and nobody else on the team is saying anything. If I say I know that I might be the villain in the room now.

Speaker 2 27:07

So not you're gonna get your head shot off. You're gonna get your head chopped off, yeah.

Speaker 27:11

Right. She's a snitch, or she's the one, I can't believe you sold them out like that. Or I don't want to work with Aiko because she's gonna be the one who says or does. So we don't want to be ostracized and excommunicated. We don't like that feeling of being the bad guy. There's nothing that feels good about it. We want to be in connection and in community. But the thing about accountability is that um it's stigmatized, just like the word feedback. When people hear, oh, I'm gonna give you feedback, what comes up? What do you feel when I say I need to give you some feedback, Meghan?

Meghan 27:42

It's I assume it's gonna be criticism.

Speaker 27:44

Right. And like, oh no, let me brace myself. Oh my gosh. No matter how much all the writings are about feedback, you should embrace it. It's opportunity, it's gonna make you blah blah blah better no matter what, it's still a stigma associated with it. And the same has happened with accountability. But what I try to present in the book is that accountability looks like a lot of different things, and you can hold people accountable with generosity. Many folks don't really get that, and that accountability doesn't mean, Meghan, you said you were gonna do this and you didn't. Like it doesn't, it's not blaming, shaming, kicking somebody, beating them down, demoralizing them, humiliating them. It can be curiosity. And in the book, I talk about how curiosity is care. This idea of me then saying, hey, well, um, Meghan, when I heard you say this, you said it in this way, or this is what I heard you say. I just want to know more about it. So I'm not even saying when you use that word, or you, I'm really curious, because one, it takes humility for me to also be curious because I'm owning that I don't really know what you meant by that. So I'm willing to suspend whatever conclusion I've jumped to or whatever story I'm telling myself in order to hear you out and to be there and to even understand that I'm probably gonna learn something here. And also it gives you the opportunity to share, and I guess explaining too, but you're sharing. And so now that I've heard that, I'm like, oh, okay, I understand where she was coming from. Now I may still not agree, but I was like, oh, I understand where she's coming from, or whoa, that's a whole different take. I didn't even know. Doesn't mean that I'm gonna exonerate you and pass on the impact. I still will say, you know what? And when I heard that, this is what happened for me. I have better context now, but I do want to share with you this is what happened, or this is how it landed in the room. So now you're not being just beat down, you're understanding, oh, the context. You're not saying she didn't even hear my part, blah, blah, blah. And I came in knowing that there was a chance that there's something about you I don't understand, or that might not be right, or that I should give myself take a beat to listen to. And that's showing care. Being curious enough to actually ask somebody and inquire and to hear is an act of care. And curiosity takes um in that way, open curiosity takes emotional labor, it takes time and it takes mental capacity on all things that in a society we feel really short of.

Scenario-Based Learning And Channel Three

Meghan 30:15

Yeah, because we don't take care of ourselves first, right? We don't shore up our own reserves first before showing up. So then you have all these like thin energy, low emotional capacity, low mental capacity, burned out people at each other. For listeners, I just went, I just waved my arms at each other, like you know, like when people fight, like when little kids fight with each other, or like that very wavy, hand clappy thing. But like that is very like it's it's a recipe for a lot of disaster. Speaking of disaster, I'm gonna spill the beans and share that your book has a really cool format. And we've kept this format since proposal stage, where readers can actually like play out real life situations. I'm guessing these are based in your experience as an executive coach and as a woman out in the world, right? So, why did you want to structure your book that way? And I'm purposely not saying how most people would describe this because those folks are very litigious, but like in terms of this, like being able to go into an example and say, I would do A and then follow A all the way to the end, and same thing with B or C. Like, why did you want to structure your book that way?

Speaker 31:26

Um, one, I wanted to have the anecdotal evidence of uh scenarios that people could relate to. The other part is I wanted people to actively make choices and think about why I would have made that choice or not. So they're increasing their self-awareness and understanding why would I do that? And then they're also playing out, well, these are some of the possible outcomes that could happen. And oftentimes when we are one, you're also somatically going through it. So I can understand when I'm reading the scenario, many people have said, Oh my gosh, my heart was beating when I was reading that scenario because I could relate to it and I felt myself getting angry and I could felt myself up a ladder. Um, and so one, just somatically feeling what it feels like in your body when the scenario is happening. Then the part of the hard thing of making a choice, because many of us are avoidant and we won't even make a choice. But for the P us to make a choice and then to think about it, because then when we do make a choice, we sometimes just leave it to go wherever it may fall, the chips fall or they may, versus debriefing ourselves and thinking about why did I do that? And what led me to X, Y, and Z. And even how did it feel when I did that? And is there another option? Because again, we're on the rat, you know, the hamster wheel. We're just doing whatever, especially when something feels hard and uncomfortable, we just rip the band-aid off, do it, and not look back, versus building up our threshold for vulnerability and to be present in those moments so that we can be intentional and then to even stay in the moment all the way through and carry it to the accountability to understand the impact. I wanted people to somatically feel what it feels like to be in those situations, to be able to take a beat and think through why I would have done that, to see a different perspective of how it could land on the other end and to see what the options are of other ways to do things. So it really is the self-awareness, the somatic experience, and then the learning, learning about themselves and even thinking about other people on the um multiple uh points of a scenario. And many of us we don't have the threshold of vulnerability to do that. And it's a skill that we have to build and a capacity, and I think the book invites that. And I think the framework of how we coach, when I think about the value of having executive coach and somebody holding a non-judgmental space for you and helping you to play things out and hear yourself is like priceless growth and feeling empathy at the same moment somebody holding that space.

unknown 34:08

Yeah.

Meghan 34:09

I love that. I actually had an Aiko moment based in one of the examples. I had this will be a reference for you, but I had a Kelsey and Brie moment with a friend. Um, or I was definitely Kelsey. And because Kelsey, spoiler alert in the book, Kelsey is white and Brie is black. And although I I feel very proud of like being able to like manage the situations better than the average white woman, I still fuck up. And so I was able to like be like, ooh, and I did feel it in my body. And I did, I literally sat down, I was traveling, and I literally sat down in my hotel room and I thought, what would I go do in this situation? What would I go tell me to do? And I I made the repair. I I was hum, you know, I'm humble, and I was like, Look, I really fucked up. I'm really sorry. I didn't, that wasn't the kind of person I mean to be, and like that's not cool, and like I'm very sorry. And my friend was just like, she she's been through it. So she was just like, I get it, I know that's not who you are, it's fine. But like I was just like, uh so yeah, definitely. I I completely understand. And I love this framework, and I'm very excited to like work my way through the book more thoroughly as well. Because I think you're one of the smartest people I know.

Speaker 35:26

Oh, thank you. I I hope that when people read it too, like when they say, Oh, what did I say I would do in the book? Does that work or not? Why did I was I compelled to do that and how would I have wanted it to be? Like, so it's not because in the book, I don't think I necessarily tell people what to do, but I want them to understand the impacts and why they may make different choices. Um, and I want them to walk away with that, like, oh, sh, you know what? I'm hearing I'm adhering to this bullshit that I've heard since I was two years old and I'm not doing it anymore. Or I want them to say, Oh, I'm being defensive, and why? What am I being defended and what is it going to get me? And is it gonna help this relationship? So, one of the things we talk about, I talk about the channel one, channel two listening that many people are very familiar with if you're in comms or anything, but I talk about introduce this concept about a channel three listening. And I'm hoping that when people read the book and they're introduced to this concept, that they start engaging their relationships in a channel three way. But it takes skill to do that, and they have to be self-aware. And I think that will change relationships at work and at home.

Meghan 36:31

Because to recap, channel one is listening to respond. Channel two is remind me, listening to learn.

Speaker 36:40

Uh listening to understand.

Meghan 36:42

Listening to understand. And then channel three is listening for connection.

Speaker 36:47

I love it. Like connection to the person. And we know that when you're at channel three, what I've noted in my practice is that everything changes. The words that somebody chooses to use, uh they won't use a certain word that they would have used at channel one or channel two. They actually pause longer in conversation because they're taking in the person's thematics, expression, body language, and energy as they pause longer. Eye contact looks different. And they're considering and thinking in different ways that may be more heart-centered versus just head, knower, wanting to be right, etc.

Speaker 1 37:28

Yeah.

Speaker 37:28

And it changes the whole outcome of a conversation and how you engage.

Endurance Through A Long Publishing Process

Meghan 37:37

I just know what everybody wants is like actual connection and reciprocity in their relationships, and like that fidelity that you talked about earlier. I think that's what everybody's sort of craving in this like quick take pundit environment. Um okay. So this book changed a lot over the course of our work together. We started the proposal process. So I I have an archive, I go to the OG contract most of the time. We started it, okay, in December. We're recording this for context in December 2025. We started this December 2021. I'm yeah, we're wonderful.

Speaker 38:23

Oh my god.

Meghan 38:23

Yeah, yeah, that's just you were on our client spreadsheet for a very, very long time. Um you got your deal in 2022. Okay, so let's just that actually is pretty normal, right? Like we would have started it in late 21, we would have finished the proposal probably like early springish or summerish 2022. And then you, you know, the book's coming out in 2026, which actually isn't that long of a trajectory? It's it's a bit long. That's a long time. And it not all of that delay or that placement or that decision on when your book would come out was entirely in your control, because with traditional publishing books, that they never your pub date is never entirely in your control as an author is one of those differences. But I'm curious, what did you learn about yourself by having to work that long on a project?

Speaker 39:14

Um when it takes endurance, but the way that I work is kind of ADHD-ish, um, is that I usually have to have a lot of irons in the fire or I get bored really fast. Um, and so just like when somebody is running um a marathon or during something, an endurance sport, it's great to have somebody who's a pacer or pacing with you or what have you to make sure that you don't just, you know, lose it. Um or you're still saying focused um and present. So for me, partnering with you all was really so important because it would be on um a shelf somewhere collecting dust. Uh, not only running the business, being a mom of two teenage boys, all these other things that are happening in my life, it may have like just gone and been on the shelf. So it was great to have the discipline of every other week I'm meeting and going through refining, etc. Um, and even going through edits like stopping me from having from almost rewriting something over and over again and being able to have this person as a metronome who's like, good enough, you know, instead of going back into the rabbit hole. So for me, um, already always knew that I have to be doing multiple things to just keep myself um enjoy life the way I want to. So the discipline of going back to something over and over again was just, it was like killing me.

Meghan 40:42

It kills everybody. This isn't just your ADHD brain. I literally recorded a podcast yesterday, and my client was like, I could not fucking believe how many times we looked at this thing.

Speaker 40:52

Oh my god. Today, I'm like, gosh, I would want to change this, I'd want to change that. And of course, since 2021, I've had more learnings, more insights that would take the work even to a different level. But I was like, you know what? At a point, you just gotta call it. And I was like, you know what, this is what the evolution iteration of life is. So you just gotta call it and keep it moving. But I did learn just that endurance of doing something for that long, like writing uh, you know, a thesis or something, dissertation, or working on a lawsuit that is drag dragging forever is hard. And I like um working in connection with people. So that was um another added uh benefit that really I love that support, getting that support from your org.

Meghan 41:43

Yes. You work with my colleague Blair both on proposal and on manuscript. And so that was that was like a great match for you all, too. Like I think it was just a good match of energy, it's a good match of uh collaborative thinking. I'm trying to think of um so in the in the process, you know, you came up with this framework of Anchor and Aligned Accountable in the process of writing the book. How did that come up for you as an author where you had to be? We touched upon this a little bit before, but like were there elements where you had to get you had to tell, you know, the the people you worked with that, hey, loyalty and justice are my ultimate values, here's how we're gonna operate. Like a lot of authors feel like the relationship with their editor or their publishing house is awkward or not equal partnership. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you treated that as an author? Because usually you're in like the coach role and now you're kind of in the client role.

Speaker 42:46

Um, and you mean the client role in engagement with the publisher?

Meghan 42:51

Yes.

Speaker 42:53

Huh. I think you know, I think there are a lot of dynamics that came into play. So one was um, and I think that for a lot of women, for black women, for people who have any kind of identity where you're not usually perceived as a subject matter expert or the knower or whatever, um, you often are constantly reframing yourself for people so that they understand like what your boundaries are, what's okay, what's not okay. Um, I feel like even us working together, like one of the reasons I chose you all to partner with is because I already knew that you recognized power dynamics, that part of what you all focus on and target is working with authors, um, recognizing one, there's an identity cap in the publishing industry and in authorship, and you all wanting to take that on and be a part of that. So I already knew that. So I was like, okay, bet. So now I have to explain to her how the whole wheel works.

Meghan 43:51

I don't have to ex You don't have to explain my privilege to me. I'm very steeped in it.

Speaker 44:00

Way, like to me, which is baseline, and it's exhausting to have to do that and to trust your work or intellectual property with somebody. I was like, I'm not even doing that. Um, there's not a lot of um I think black folks who do what you all do either. Um, in resetting and working with um Blair too, like knowing like what is that dynamic gonna be like, and then even with the publishers, etc. So it was one that came to bear a lot for me, or I won't say a lot, but was always front of mind and always is, I think for people like me. The other part like, am I gonna be respected? Is my work gonna be respected? Is my voice gonna be heard? And how much am I gonna have to like get crunk and be at 100? So waiting.

Meghan 44:43

I don't want anyone to have to take their earrest off. If anyone's taking their earrings off, it's me.

Speaker 44:49

Waiting at all times. And I felt like also from the get-go when I spoke with you, I was like, oh man, this woman, she's gonna, you know, go to the mat and she's gonna fight for me and be present and be like, you know, I'm not, you know, your book's not going out to some bullshit people. And I was like, yes, like I felt like you were there, you're there for me, you believe in the work, and wow, okay, we can move forward. Um, so the other part that was very similar or parallel was that it was I was working in a space that I was not familiar with. And so I had to be able to rely on not being the knower or having subject matter expertise and have deference in that way, which is really hard when you're used to always trying to have your own back and be grounded or and be like, I'm gonna trust these people and then trust people who don't look like me. I don't know. And similarly with publishing, like, are they gonna be fair to me? Are they gonna, you know, have my back? Are they gonna try to get over what are they gonna try to change the word so that so all these things are happening? Um, and that I have to wait and keep myself self-regulated, awareness about okay, I go this story you're telling yourself versus this. You need to know what you need so that you can ask for what you need. You need to be clear about your boundaries so that these things. So basically, um I had to practice the things that you know I'm supporting my clients with. And I was, you know, totally struck gold because I have an amazing editor who looks like me, and she is so dope and amazing and similar to with you off, like she has my back. This woman is going to be like to the mat for me. And for me, with the loyalty part, that's so important. Like, are you gonna tell me like it is? And you're gonna tell them like it is. Can I tell you when this is not jiving with me? Yes. Are you going to hear my voice and value it? So, really, those values of loyalty and justice playing out the whole time through all the relationships. So, never, I don't think, in any of the rel the those interactions that I say, look, you need to know these are my top two values. But I know that throughout the interaction, I was adhering to those. They kept coming up. The things that I felt activated by was because, oh man, are they really telling me the truth or not? Oh man, are they downplaying my voice? And then would they be like this with other people? Oh man, the deal that they're giving me is this a fair deal or not? You know, it was great, it was a major deal at the end of the day. Um, and I was excited about that. And it, but it was even through that, it was like, okay, is this what it's worth or are they playing with me? So I was always weighing just because the one virtue of you know, experiencing the world, um it's uh very vulnerable to be in a space that you're not familiar with, you're not an expert in, that you have to have humility um around, and it's your own creative work and it's your lived experience in there. I have stories that are my own personal stories in there. Um and is it true to what I really experienced and is it honest? So it was all those things I felt were on the line, and I had to just practice what I preached in terms of being centered, being grounded, and being clear about okay, this is okay, this is not, I'm being able to ask for what I need.

Meghan 47:57

I love that so much. And I think it's really useful because I think there is uh the reason that so many people of color self-publish is because they assume, sometimes rightly, sometimes not, that the traditional publishing world won't be kind to them or inclusive to them. And I think just like everybody sort of predicted, the diversity initiatives of 2020 have totally dropped off in our industry. Um, unfortunately, there's still some inroads happening, but it's definitely still happening. But that's kind of like how I see how I can leverage my privilege as a white cis het seeming person that I can go in and kind of take my earrings off, right? And go in and kind of be like, no, you don't get to talk to my client this way. Also, do you realize what you're saying? Most of the time I come into like, do you realize what you're saying right now? Do you do you hear yourself?

Speaker 48:50

Yeah, yeah. Well, how can you have that lens and they're gonna call it before you have to? It's like a relief. Because a lot of us are in the rooms where no one sees it and we have to make a choice every moment of, okay, how crunk do I have to get from zero to a hundred? And sometimes if we if we are not activated where we can make that intentional choice, and we don't just go all the way out or we shut down.

Meghan 49:13

Or to go all the way back to like our colleague Lane's book, who I interviewed on the pod in an earlier episode. Like, do we choose silence in that moment? Because we can't be bothered to explain, you know, centuries of disenchant, uh disenfranchisement. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Speaker 49:29

Yeah. Yeah. So it's great to have um people there who have your back, and just like every relationship, you have to learn is that the truth and trust it.

Using The Framework To Get Published

Meghan 49:40

Yeah. And that's what like the integrity comes in, right? Of like, if I say what if I do what I say, and if I can't do what I promise, then I'm gonna come in with an explanation for it and a justification for it, and be honest with you about it, then hopefully that will build trust and then our your loyalty and justice can sit with my integrity and reciprocity and create a really great relationship for yours to come, which is the goal, right? Um okay. So our listeners are entrepreneurs and experts who, when I get a book deal, they have a book idea on their heart. Um, many uh, based on the data we have are still in the process of building out their thought leadership, their frameworks, their content, their businesses and their audiences. How can you recommend using your book and specifically the Anchored Aligned and Accountable Framework to advance these goals and maybe help listeners get out of their own way?

Speaker 50:40

Oh, I think number one, the part about why are you writing the book and why is it important to you, more than likely is going to be steeped in something that pertains to your values. And I think just doing that initial part uh that we talked about earlier in terms of your values and the behavior is going to help you kept keep yourself in check. And the way that I was just um talking about how these two values played out the whole way, but from selecting you and your company and working with you all, from uh how I work with the publisher and the editor, uh, the words I decided to put on the page where I was like, should I write this or should I not? I went back to my values to figure out, you know what, some people are gonna like this and they're gonna be like, Why are you naming people's gender and why are you saying this? It's just everyone's human and we all have these scenarios. I was like, well, to me, I understand it is important, these are dynamics that play out in the choices that we make and how we engage in people. And that went back to my values of loyalty and justice and understanding the impact I want to have on the book. So I think that for aspiring art um authors, that would be so important for them to understand who do you want to be um in writing this book? Not just what do you want to gain in terms of a lot of folks use um the book just to get more business, but it's the idea of who do you want to be and how do you want to show up in this book in a way that's honest to who you are. So that understanding your values and having that play out throughout, and when you don't, why not? Why not? Because that same shift or decision you're making, more than likely you're making that same decision in your personal life and your work life. So why do you not do the thing that's in alignment with your values? What is going on? And probably some of that bullshit that I name in the book is coming out to bear. So if you're able to go through the bullshit um that I list out in the book and to name it when you're making decisions and they're not in alignment, you can understand, oh shit, this is what's playing out on me. And is that how I want this to go?

Meghan 52:40

That's so smart. I love that. I love that accountability. Like, because you can, I think you know, the accountability starts with you. Everything starts with you, right? That's like a self-help maxim. I literally have a book on my shelf over there about relationships called It Starts With You. It's a great book, but like it is very much that. Um sorry, because I think a lot of people think what I see a lot is people want the traditional book deal, but they don't want the life that requ comes with it, right? They don't want everything you have to do before you get that book deal. All the development you have to do, all the growth, all of the you have to be out there in a big way. You have to be willing to do this, right? Put yourself on YouTube for whatever comments are out there, all that kind of stuff. It's it's a lot. It's people have different, people are different, right? Everybody's different, everybody has different comfortability levels, everybody has different, you know, preferences, all of that is different. And so just because, you know, I don't ever say like self-publishing is wrong, uh, because for some people it's the right move, but like I just don't want people to take themselves out of the game because the bullshit has told them that they can't play it.

Speaker 53:48

Yeah, that absolutely. Um I will say the other part about because I thought about self-publishing too, and I had to ask myself the reasons why I would do that. And it was one that you named as just like recognizing the publishing industry isn't always friendly to people like me. Um, but the other one was that wow, I could still fly under the radar. Like I'm an introvert. I don't like necessarily, you know, having to be responsive to shit that people might say, do, or what have you. Um, I'm an introvert, but I'm one that has like a real edge. And I like to try to stay um, you know, self-aware, et cetera. But I was like, I don't want to hear any shit about what anybody has to say about what I have to say. And we know that that doesn't fly and doesn't work, but I did think about and I think a lot about the comfort of being under the radar a lot, and I just had to hold myself accountable for that in many ways. Um, even with public speaking, I love uh keynotes and things like that. And after I do it, I love it, but I always have to do my own little inner work and grounding before I do, and the cost of doing uh uh self-publishing the um the cost rather than pitching to traditional publishers, it didn't make sense to me in terms of the cost of what I would be paying and forfeiting and opportunity cost and what is it in coaching myself? Like if you're coaching yourself, what would you be saying? And I was like, you know, deeper threshold for vulnerability, girl. You know, yeah that you're forfeiting, yeah. And I was like, okay, hold yourself accountable because this is what you're doing, you're uh why you're selling yourself short and your beliefs and your smarts and your experience. And I had to get myself together on that.

Meghan 55:41

I love it. Also, if you're afraid of what people are saying, I won't send you any five-star reviews when you get them.

Speaker 55:50

But the other thing is, it's like it's weird because it's not like this afraid of, it's like I don't want to come out of character, like of who I want to be. And I know that I can just get enraged.

Speaker 1 56:03

Yeah.

Speaker 56:04

You know, other aspects too, but of course, also you want people to like the book and you want people to get stuff out of it and um to feel not, it's like, oh, those are um it's hard to not take it personally when it's your own intellectual property, right?

Practical Advice Plus Retreat And Quiz

Meghan 56:19

Right, yeah. It is. I mean, I think it's hard to not take anything personally that's related to your business, your ideas. Your ideas how you're showing up in the world. That's super, I mean, it's hard to not take anything in the world ever personally. Like someone, you know, cuts me off in traffic. Uh, I could take that personally if I really wanted to, right? Like that's totally a thing. Um, here in Seattle, you know, the culture here, nobody speaks to you, no one looks at you. You could take that real personal if you wanted to. Yeah. Um okay. So given that you're this is honestly the last question. So given that you've achieved what everybody listening to this wants, which is a book deal, a published book out in the world, what would be your best advice? Like if I was sitting down with you at a cafe or at over a cocktail, like what would you say friend to friend about your experience?

Speaker 57:19

I don't know. I think people understanding why do they want to do it, like what do they want to get out of it? Yeah, you know, why do you want to do it? Um, and also that it's not simple. You know, it's not like just writing that term paper or that thesis or what have you, it's not that simple. Um, I think the other thing is to reach out to people who have a subject matter expertise. That's really important. I mean, um, I have a dear friend who has published many books that are have done really well, and it was so great for me to be able to say, hey, this is what's going on. What do you think? Um, the pitching, it was so great having your outfit with me. Like, there are all these rules around what your book proposal needs to have in it, what it shouldn't, all these other things. And many people feel like, hey, I just have to have the first draft done. Actually, no, you don't have to have the first draft done. And you need to have, and so going to people who are subject matter experts really helped me and shortcut it and not sending it and emailing it to everybody in the industry, which they tell you, but like people who are reputable, who are already gonna let you know. And I think that that being willing to honor what I don't know and to be able to seek the help that I did need and the support is the reason why this book is out there. And I would have taken so many other turns and detours that are out there about guidance about getting published that would have just been time saps. And I don't know if I would have had the endurance to do all of it while I am running this business and doing all the other things that make my life full.

Meghan 58:53

Yeah, that's the point. I mean, I I brought this up in uh the other interview I did this week, which was an episode that ran probably a couple months before. This one's gonna air about leverage and how like the thing you're buying back is your time when you hire us to help you with your book or your proposal or even give you, we do one-on-one consults now for people that need to grow their audience. Like you're buying time, you're buying your time back, and time is the only non-renewable resource we've got. So yeah, you can buy more money, you can find you can make more money, right? Yeah, you can't make more time.

Speaker 59:28

That's right. And and I think it's not only just time, it's ease. Like that chasing down rabbit holes, not really knowing, not being clear, but have you, and people who've been there done that. It's yeah, you're getting time, but also that ease and not that constant hesitation. Am I doing this right? Am I doing that right? But people who already have a subject matter expertise and relationships, it makes a difference.

Meghan 59:52

Yeah, and we're able to say, Oh, this is right, or oh, that's weird, or what's going on there. And then, you know, I had a client recently, they were also leadership consultants, and we were back channeling with their agent. I was back, uh we, I was back channeling their aid with their agent about something, and they were like, Oh, we really want to be included. And I was like, actually, no, you don't, because if you guys get involved, the back channeling would not be as effective. So can you just let me do my thing? I'm not I'm gonna rope you in whenever it's necessary, but otherwise, babe, what you don't hear is but what's best for you.

Speaker 1:00:28

Take a beat over there, and I was very happy to, you know, release the reins on that part. Um, there was something else I wanted to add that was about uh value of working with you. Oh, the other thing that was really a value of working with you all was that um, I mean, at no point were you all ever trying to make a call for me. You were always one I felt really prepped going into all the conversations with um lit agents, uh, in terms of you all like, you know, making sure I knew what was going on, why this was important, etc. The other thing in working with Blair, like they they were always my call and my ideas and my edits and things. And I think sometimes if you're hiring support or collaboration, you think that, oh man, they're gonna run me over, I'm gonna get lost in the saucer and me telling me what to do, et cetera. And that was never, I never felt that way, and that was never the case. So the I didn't feel like I was losing any agency or ownership, but that's one of the things that I was fearful of in, you know, getting collaborators and working like that. So I did want to highlight that. Um, and you all never abandon me. Like there was the book proposal, it was the prepping with the lit agents, um, it was look how long it took for this book to happen. And you all were never like, look, girl, deuces.

Meghan 1:01:46

Um we do have we do have the Aiko rule. So I name additions to our contracts after people. So like we started charging royalty kickbacks with Elaine.

Speaker 1:02:01

Wow, wait a minute, what is happening here?

Meghan 1:02:04

But the Aiko rule is if it goes over 18 months, we have to charge you at an hourly rate.

Speaker 1:02:10

Totally fair. But just the fact that I never thought you all were like trying to like just leave and be like, you know, F you and that you all were invested in my idea, the book, and me. And so I did want to, I wanted to name those factors.

Meghan 1:02:27

I love that. Yeah, that's the thing. Like it's it's we don't. I mean, I had a client who hired a different collaborator for her manuscript, and then she had a question that came up in the manuscript process that her collaborator could not answer. And she said, Hey, you know, would you answer this for me? And I said, Yeah, I will. I'll hop on the phone with you for five minutes to tell you what's normal or what's not. Um, that's about as far as I'm gonna go without charging you some more, but like that's you know, that's the value. I mean, I see this as a high-end service, and so a high-end service should respond at a high-end level, right? And it's I mean, it's just the to me, I want to be treated like that. And I've gotten very harsh with other providers just because I'm like, oh, you market yourself as a luxury service. This is not a luxury experience, though.

Speaker 1:03:14

Right, right, right.

Meghan 1:03:16

Because I hold myself to that high, high like level, right? I want to be like the Bergdorf Goodman of Yeah, it was collaboration.

Speaker 1:03:26

Meghan Stevenson uh for the win. Yeah, but yeah, it really was.

Meghan 1:03:29

Yeah, that's like I want to be like my husband's like, there's no VIP experience you don't want. And I was like, you say that like it's a bad thing. Yeah, it's a great thing.

Speaker 1:03:39

Right, that's right. That's right.

Meghan 1:03:42

So thank you, Aiko. I know this uh episode's gonna be super, super helpful for everybody out there. Um, I know that you wanted to share a way for people to continue working with you. So it is the retreat you're gonna host here.

Speaker 1:03:58

Oh, I'm so excited about in October 2026. So tell me a little bit about that before we oh, I'm so excited about the retreat. It's the first in the um series of Anchored Align and Countable Retreats. And this one's called Sounds, Systems, and Silence, and it's very much about being able to identify bullshit in your system um to be able to critique the systems that you're navigating so that you can create the one you want and engage that the way that you want to. And it's in the jungle of Costa Rica, so talk about being in a different and having different sounds and being in silence, that will be it. But I'm super excited. It's a luxury retreat, and I'm just um excited to work with a small cohort of people in a different system.

Meghan 1:04:41

Yeah, I love that. I'm very excited. We'll include a link to that in the show notes for sure, and all your socials will be there as well. I go, thank you so so much, everyone who's listening. Go get Anchored, Aligned, and Accountable. It is a great book. It will help you with your business, they'll help you with your book, and it'll help you be less of an asshole to everyone around you. Because you won't be steeped in the bullshit. Yeah. And everyone, cheers to your success. We'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in to the Kind of Big Book Deal podcast. Want to see where you're at on your book journey? Check out my free quiz at MeghanStevenson.com forward slash quiz. That's M-E-G-H-A-N-S-T-E-V-E-N-S-O-N.com forward slash quiz. See you next time.