Why Bestselling Authors Invest in Book Deals with Dr. Erica Jordan-Thomas

What if the book deal you want depends less on your idea and more on the business you build around it?

In this episode of Kind of a Big Book Deal, Meghan Stevenson sits down with Dr. Erica Jordan-Thomas, founder of 7-Figure Educator™ and forthcoming author of 7-Figure Educator™. Erica shares the real journey behind preparing for a traditional publishing deal, from hearing the hard truth about audience size to spending two years growing her platform with strategy, consistency, and data.

She explains why social media growth is not about vanity metrics, but about learning what your audience needs and proving you can sell your message. Erica also opens up about building the team, systems, and support needed to write a book while running a multiple seven-figure business. This episode is a grounded look at authorship, entrepreneurship, visibility, and why expert support can make the publishing process smoother, stronger, and more strategic.

Dr. Erica Jordan-Thomas is the CEO and Founder of 7-Figure Educator™, a business development company shifting power in education and closing the racial wealth gap by equipping high-performing educators to build 7-figure consulting businesses. Through her programs, she’s worked with over 20,000 educators nationwide. Her clients earn an average of $92,000 in annual business revenue outside their 9-to-5s, 42% more than the average teacher’s salary.

A former math teacher and school principal, Dr. Erica holds degrees from The Ohio State University, Relay Graduate School of Education, and Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she earned her doctorate. She’s also a real estate investor and CEO of Emma & Easter Realty Group, and the forthcoming Hay House author of 7-Figure Educator: Turn Your Experience as an Educator Into Income, Impact, and Freedom, available everywhere books are sold on June 16, 2026.

Find Dr. Jordan-Thomas on social 
https://www.instagram.com/e_jordanthomas/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drericajordanthomas/ 

Episode Highlights:
(0:00) Intro
(1:34) Meet Dr. Erica Jordan-Thomas
(3:00) Starting the publishing journey in 2022
(4:21) Getting direct feedback on audience growth
(6:24) Why platform size matters to publishers
(9:25) Building a strategic social media presence
(11:25) Hiring support without losing your voice
(14:41) Preparing the business to write a book
(20:06) Using time, joy, and revenue as filters
(25:45) Balancing manuscript deadlines and live events
(35:47) Finding the right literary agent
(39:14) Why New York Times bestseller matters
(42:39) Investing in a serious book launch
(48:20) The best advice for growing an audience
(51:26) Outro

Have a great idea for a book but don't know where to start? MeghanStevenson.com/quiz


Traditional publishing expert Meghan Stevenson blasts open the gates of the “Big 5”—Penguin Random House, Simon & Schuster, HarperCollins, Hachette, and Macmillan—to share what every entrepreneur and expert needs to know about landing a book deal. 

In episodes released every Monday, Meghan shares wisdom and stories from 20+ years in publishing as well as interviews with authors, literary agents, and editors. She also answers questions from listeners like you. 

Whether you are an experienced entrepreneur with an empire, or are just starting out—this podcast will help you understand what you need to do in order to turn your dream of being a bestselling author into real life. 

Transcript

When Deadlines Collide With Life

Speaker 0:00

I had the reverse thinking when I decided that. And it was the opposite experience to where I'm actually incredibly grateful that I had Meghan's team during that time because what that meant is for anybody who's ever hosted any type of event, whether it's personal or in your business, whether it was a wedding, whether it was a baby shower, whether it was a birthday party, whether it was a retreat, whatever, you know that 90 days prior to the event, all the things are going on.

Meet The Host And Guest

Meghan 0:29

Welcome to the Kind of a Big Book Deal podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn about traditional publishing. I'm your host, Meghan Stevenson. After working as an editor for two of the biggest traditional publishers, I started my own business helping entrepreneurs to become authors. To date, my clients have earned over $7 million from publishers including Penguin Random House, Simon Schuster, Harper Collins, and Hay House, just to name a few. In these podcast episodes, I will blast open the well-kept gates to traditional publishing. I'm going to explain what every entrepreneur needs to know about landing a book deal without losing your mind. I'm going to share stories, answer your questions, interview the successful authors I've had the pleasure to work with, and probably say platform more than a tech bro. So if you dream of landing on a bestseller list but have no idea how, this is the podcast for you. And I am so, so glad you're here. All right, y'all. I am so, so excited to have yet another client on the kind of a big book deal podcast. So Dr. Erica Jordan Thomas is the CEO and founder of Seven Figure Educator, a business development company shifting power in education and closing the racial wealth gap by equipping high-performing educators to build seven-figure consulting businesses. Through her programs, she's worked with over 20,000 educators nationwide, and her clients earn an average of $92,000 in annual business revenue outside of their nine to fives, which is 42% higher than the average teacher salary. A former math teacher and school principal, Dr. Erica, or EJT for short, holds degrees from the Ohio State University, Relay Graduate School of Education, and Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she earned her doctorate. She's also a real estate investor and CEO of Emma and Easter Realty Group and the forthcoming Hay House author of Seven Figure Educator: Turn Your Experience as an Educator into Income, Impact, and Freedom. Can I say that subtitle? Anywhere books are sold available June 16th, 2026, which by the way is two days before my birthday. So I'm calling this my birthday present for the year. Period. Dr. EJT, welcome.

Speaker 2:48

Super excited to be here. Thank you for having me. I mean, first off, thank you, but also thank you for having me. So I'm excited to be here.

The Platform Numbers Reality Check

Meghan 2:55

Of course, of course. So we have been working together for a very long time. I went back into, I had to go back to my old version of my website. So different Squarespace account to find your original first payment to working with me. It was way back in 2022. And that's when I was running a membership, educating people on the traditional publishing industry and how to align your business with what book people want. We also worked on your book proposal together. We worked on the manuscript together and the creation of your book editorially. So back when we met, and I'm going way back in your business, I helped you to understand what you, as an entrepreneur in your field, so you specialize. You are working with educators who want to create consulting businesses. What you specifically in that niche would need to do in order to land a book deal. How did that learning influence your strategy for your business?

Speaker 3:49

Yeah. So first off, I love the fact that you're taking us back to the beginning because I was, you know, as I was thinking about our time together, I was like, I can't remember what year it was. I know it was a long time ago, but I was like, I can't remember, like, and I mean it's 2026 now. I was like, I know it wasn't last year. I don't even think it was two years ago. And so long time 2022. I'm like, oh my goodness, that was four years ago. And I, one of my core memories is one of our first calls that we had together, where there was like a series of questions that you asked me to get really clear, you know, on my business and where I was. And I remember telling you, I'm like, listen, Meghan, I will run the play. Like, just tell me what to do. Like, like I, you, you ain't gotta convince me. I'm not gonna argue with you. Like, just tell me what the play is. And in so many words, what you said is like, you know, one of the things that is uh an absolute like, you know, positive that you have going for you is you have a business model. So like on the back end of after a book, like you have an ecosystem that can carry a reader through and to another experience, but you this audience, like let's talk about these audience numbers, your audience is not big enough. And I remember in the moment being like, oh, like my audience big enough. And you were like, you need to grow your audience, like point blank, period. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, and I mean it was such such clear feedback, but in the moment, I was like, okay, so I have to, as someone who was like, you know, head down, doing the work, client delivery, focusing on the thing. Like I had a framework, so I had the content to write a book that wasn't like my gap, but you were like, Erica, you need an audience. If this is the type of deal that you want for your book, you need to have the audience numbers to show it. And I remember asking the follow-up questions, and you know, this is like my very nerdy like data analytical brain. I was like, okay, so what's the number? And like, what's like the percentage of growth that I need? And we talked through that and it gave me a very clear goal. And what I appreciated around the clarity, because I believe directness is kindness, and you said, Erica, when you get to this point, we'll be ready to talk about a proposal. But if you are not here yet, this is your focus. You need to build your audience. And so I remember clear as day that, and that was 2022. And then when did we get to the proposal step? Was that 2024?

Meghan 6:18

I want to say that's 2024. Let me, I actually, so Erica has a great YouTube video, actually, series from her podcast, Seven Figure Educator, about how she leveled up. So I have your data, which is awesome. So when we talked, you said 2023. So this is probably a little bit beyond after that conversation. You only you had less than 10,000 followers across platforms, right? So this is too small. And it was so funny. I this is just a tangent town, I have a tangent town focus on my podcast where I like something reminds me of something else. So I like go on in this tangent. I was at Vivian 2's event earlier this year, and she was like, oh, that person has like 11,000 followers, haha. And I was like, I have 11,000 followers. And I was like, I get that's small to someone with six million followers, right? But like for me, I was like, that's a lot for me. Um so it's all relative. It's my tangent 10 for there. But 10,000 is way too small for a traditional publisher, including Hay House, which is a subsidiary of Penguin Random House, which is the number one worldwide publisher, biggest publisher in the world. So too small for them, right? So we worked on your proposal in 2024. So it did take you two years. And what was funny about that conversation, you were talking to me at because I remember it very distinctly. You had all the spreadsheets, you were ready to run the play, like you said. And I said 5% growth, and I was literally ballparking that. I was just throwing it out, being like, I don't know, 5% sounds good. And what I've realized over the years working with people and you being the leader in this and sort of the benchmark for everybody else behind you, is that 5% quarter over quarter, and especially what you did month over month, is actually huge. It is a lot, it goes really fast. And that snowball effect kind of magically happens right now around 10k, at least on Instagram, where like you will then see right the snowball of it. But the hardest part is that initial push from you know your friends and family that you know, some usually people have like 500 to a thousand to that 10,000. That takes a lot of work.

Speaker 8:24

Yeah. And so I'm I'm glad we're naming this and having this conversation because like I know, you know, and knowing you and working together, you know, with with you for for so long, like I know this is one of the things that you preach. And I also think it's probably one of the hardest things for people to hear, particularly when people have, you know, mindsets around visibility or they're just like, but the content is so good, like, you know, yeah, I should be able to write my book. And it's like, okay, but if you can't sell that thing, like why would I want to give you a book deal if the numbers simply don't show that you'll be able to sell books? And so I think two things are important to be able to underscore here because you preach this time and time again is that the first time I heard it, it was hard to hear. Like it was, but it was so necessary. And that's why I appreciate you know the expertise that you had because you were able to directly tell me this is what you need to do and to be able to name for people. It took me two years to be able to get to a point where I had the numbers to then be able to go. And it wasn't just like two years of like, you know, oh, well, let me just post on social media. Like it was two years of getting very, very, very strategic with my social media presence. And so I was testing, I was posting three to six times per day. I was on camera, I was doing the reels, I was doing the carousel posts, and it growed my audience, it grew my audience, but also it allowed me to see what resonates with my audience and not just do more of that, but then it helped support the marketing positioning of the book. And so I think that's just a really, really important point. You preach this all the time, and this is you know, me like underscoring, be like, Meghan A Lion. Like right, she's right. Of like, you have to have the numbers, but also naming for people who want the book tomorrow. I took two years to take your advice and implement that advice of growing my audience.

Growing Fast With Strategic Content

Meghan 10:28

Yep. And I think the other thing people think is like they think it's about the idea, like the rejection of the publishing industry is about the idea. It's not, it's just sheer economics, right? Like, same thing as like Shark Tank, right? They're not saying no to the business owner. Sometimes they are because their money's faulty or it's not profitable or whatever. Most of the time they're just like, it's not my kind of investment. And so that's like not personal, right? So don't make it personal. I think that's what people do, and then they get all caught up in their feelings. And I think what you brought up is really important. There's a couple of different little subset questions in there. You invested in your social media, right? You probably hired help. It wasn't just you trying to figure out the algorithms on your own. And the second thing is that it worked for your business model so that it wasn't just growing a following to grow a following. You were trying to make money that whole time.

Speaker 11:20

Right, right, right, for sure. And so just to name, because I think this type of thing is really specific for folks in terms of the type of help that I hired. Like I hired, I wouldn't call them like a social media manager per se. I hired a social media like expert or strategist where we had a content day once a quarter, and we would just bang out content for the quarter. They would come prepared with topics, I would come prepared for with topics, and then one day a quarter, we're literally recording 90 pieces of short form content. But then those 90 pieces of content are allowing us to test what's working, the type of messaging, and you know, what are the hooks that work? And so, you know, just to name for folks, because I think, I think in, you know, now this is Dr. EJT, like the business strategist that is like coming forth, right? Like, like some people think, oh, well, I'll just hire a social media manager, and then they can go and do it. When it's like, no, actually, like I had put in the reps before I hired that help to have an opinion around what my social media content needed to look like. I wasn't outsourcing it completely and then losing the vision or losing my opinion in the process. I had an opinion around what it needed to be. And I think that's so important as an author, is you've got to know your audience well enough to be able to articulate their pain points, be able to articulate the transformation that they're looking for, be able to articulate their desires. And really the first part of that is being able to actually grow an audience because that's actually you exercising your marketing message, which is the same thing that you're gonna need as an author when you're writing a proposal and you get to the section where you're naming how this book is different or why this book is needed in the marketplace. It's coming from the same skill as a business owner of really being able to market uh what you do.

Meghan 13:19

And this book, y'all, talks about these things. Like I had my ops manager read Erica's book. She's a copy editor, so she reads a lot of our books when they go to what we call proof pages. This is the last stage before it goes to the printer. She reads it for editor uh edit errors because I usually have become copyblind and also I'm not that picky about that kind of shit. And I was like, you need to read this not only for us to make sure we're not sending EJT's manuscript out into the world with errors in it, but also because we need to optimize this shit in our business. So if you all are like, I don't know how to do this, you should go get seven-figure educator, even if you're not an educator, because it's just a great, great book on how to get your business from zero to $250,000 in revenue. And it's just such a good, good book. The okay, so in addition to the social media strategist, which I also have a social media strategist on my team, and she's been with me since 2020. And it's been great because we've evolved together. And she knows, you know, she's not a publishing expert, but she knows enough to like handle the DMs and all that kind of stuff. But like, what other investments did you make in yourself and in your business in order to become ready to work with me and my team on your book proposal? Because there was definitely more than just social media that you put in from 2022 to 2024.

Building A Business That Can Pause

Speaker 14:36

Yeah. So this is a great question. I love this because I'm like, we get to have the conversation that like lots of people don't get to have. They're just like, oh, I want to write a book, and like they're not thinking about all the things that come along with it. So one of the big pieces was I had to get my business ready to write a book. Like, yes. But to be very, very clear and to put this in perspective, I am an entrepreneur who is running a multiple seven-figure business. I don't do a lot of things that don't make me money. Like, yep. But I just out of the pure logic of like, I can't waste my time. And obviously, a book is not a waste of time at all. But the the monetary like reward of a book is not on the front end and low-key, like, even if we were to talk about royalties, it really ain't, you know, on a back end per se. But I say that to say is that this was really a value for me and my business and the impact that I wanted to have in the world. But I was not going, and granted, I got an advance. Happy to talk about that. But like that advance, it the intention of that advance advance is not to pay me necessarily, right? So it's like I'm not actually making money while I am actually producing the book. And so, because of that, I had to get my business ready for me to have the capacity to step away and dedicate to the book. And honestly, I stepped away, but because of your help, I was able to minimize how much I had to step away, right? So, like that was also one of the other things is I got to the point where I needed help. And I needed help because of a, I had a knowledge gap, right? And I don't believe that I need to go and read books and watch YouTube. Like, I'm gonna pay someone who's done it before to help and support me. And two, I'm gonna spend time, but transparently, and you know, we can get there when we get there. It is not the best, it's important. Let me be real clear because particularly my English and language arts teachers, they're gonna be like, but wait a minute, wait a minute. Let me be clear what I'm getting ready to say. This book is so important, it means so much to me. It means so much to me. It is the result of years and years and years of building my own business and years of working with thousands, not just a couple of hundred or you know, 500 or a thousand, two tens of thousands of educators across the country. This is the result of that work. So it means very much to me. And this book is possible because of the work that I did with Meghan and her team and how they've supported me. And after the manuscript is written, I don't believe it's the best use of my time to read it three more times.

Meghan 17:47

Yeah, it is not. It is definitely not.

Speaker 17:49

I don't believe it's the best use of my. I love my book. I love my book. And I don't believe it's the best use of my time to read it again in literally a 60 days time period, like four times, right? Yes. So I'd say that to say is to answer your question of what other investments that I had to make to get ready to work with you and your team. I knew that there was going to be a significant investment of time to dedicate towards the proposal, to dedicate towards the manuscript. And hiring your team was able to reduce, you know, the what could have been all the time. But I still had to put in time, right? I still had to, you know, chapters and exhibits and all the things. It was still a significant time investment, which meant that I had to ensure the infrastructure of my business could handle me being able to step away during days and we I had writing days, I had days where I had to go back through and do the first pass, and I'm like, Meghan, I need you to do the second pass because this first pass, I'm good. And I need you to do the other pass. But but I had to dedicate time to step away to my business, which meant I had to invest in the infrastructure as well as team so that my business didn't suffer at the sake of being able to produce a book.

Meghan 19:09

Yep, yep, because it does. I mean, I had a client recently tell me this person submitted a proposal on his own. He wrote a proposal on his own that got rejected, and he was like, look, I had to turn down clients. And as a solopreneur, he probably lost thousands of dollars working on that versus being able to hire us and leverage that time and then not lose that and also come out with a higher quality product. So I think what's really interesting is that there's like this disconnect. So a lot of entrepreneurs, experts, thought leaders, creators talk to me and say, Hey, I'm hesitating at hiring a collaborator or a ghostwriter because they're fearing the end result won't be theirs or won't sound like them. So what was your experience of that like? Because we're different. We have different backgrounds, we have different experiences. What how did you feel about that? And maybe how did you know you that shift throughout the process?

Turning Years Of Content Into Chapters

Speaker 20:06

Yeah. So I think I think it's important for me to start with my mindsets in terms of how I approach time, right? So I approach time as is it revenue generating and does it bring me joy?

Meghan 20:20

Yep.

Speaker 20:21

Those are the things that I prioritize spending my time around. And that is what I I the filter that I use personal, business-wise, is is it revenue generating and does it bring me joy? There are aspects of the book that check off both, and then there are aspects of the book that check off one or the other. And so when I think about the relationship that we've had, it's really been able to step in and fill in the gaps in those aspects of the book that don't check off both. They check off one or the other, meaning it brings me joy, but doesn't necessarily generate revenue right now, or it'll long-term generate revenue for the book, but this does not bring me joy at all. So I think the first step, if we were to go back to the proposal process, I think, I think one of the biggest values that you and your team supported me with is simply, so I'm coming to my book knowing that I wanted to write a book. I knew the vision that I had for the book in terms of content and who it was for and the problem it was going to solve. But I am coming to the proposal with at that point, we were we're talking 2024. So I am coming to that process with eight years of content. And so one of my biggest things was like, how do I even put structure to this in a way that actually creates a experience for the reader that makes sense? And so, like, the first step to the point of the value of this relationship is you and your Team did a complete deep dive through my content to be able to say, okay, here's what this could look like in chapters. So there was a dialogue and a conversation around, okay, what do you want the outcome of this book to be? What is the problem that you want to solve? Who's the reader? Okay, now let us get underneath the hood of your content and let's actually start to create some organization around the journey that a reader could go through in order to get there. And for as someone who created all the content who's been doing it for years, it was hard for me to be able to see that pathway that would then pull down into 300 pages because I'm like, oh my God. Like we could go so many directions. And I want to talk about this, but what about this? And what about this? That you all really were able to give me the structure to be able to take the reader through an experience that achieved the goal that I wanted to. And I think this is, you know, for those of us that are experts, sometimes we have a hard time filtering and we have a hard time identifying where to focus, right? So I think that was really the key role that you all played in supporting me. And I gave one example at the front end of the process from a proposal standpoint. But then when we get into the manuscript standpoint, you all are really a support and being able to be the reader's eyes and ears around what's the journey that they need to go through to really be able to reach the destination that I have in mind as an author. But you're like, we're it's like we're in a forest together, and you guys got the machete where you're like, no, cut that out, cut that out. Like, I'll keep this here. So we're in the forest side by side. And I created the forest, right? It's my forest. But you all are there with me, with the hat of the reader, with the machete to be able to say, okay, if this is chapter one and these are all the things, cut these things out, put these things together, group these things here. Oh, you had this story over here that you told in 2023 at your event. Let's take that story and allow that to be the entry point. Like you're really the guide and the machete in a forest, as someone who created the forest to help us, you know, me as the author, get the reader to the destination that I intend to.

Meghan 24:18

Yeah, I love that example and that analogy because that really is that. It's so funny. I always bring up this story from COVID where my husband got really into jigsaw puzzles. And he, I came out into our living room at the time and he was doing it, and he's like, come do this with me. And I took maybe 10 seconds and I picked up one piece and I was like, This is what I do all day for work. I'm not doing this. Like, I'll do anything else. And so that's really what it is, whether it's machete or a puzzle piece. We're we're really trying to hold all that. And for someone like you who you do want this book to serve people, but you also want it to be a jumping off point for higher cost offers, and you want more room to write uh, you know, multiple books. A lot of people want that. Like, we need to leave some room for you to have another book, right? If this book becomes a bestseller, we want to be able to say, like, okay, this book, seven figure educators from zero to 250. Well, what's the 250 to 500 book? What's the 500 to a million book? Right. So we want to have all those things. So I love that. And I know that you are friendly with a lot of fellow entrepreneurs who are authors. How do you think your experience having us on board throughout your publishing journey helped your experience be different?

Surviving Copyedits And Cover Feedback

Speaker 25:37

Great question. So let me give context to my experience. So got my offer for the book. It was right before we went off to winter break. So in December. So offer was finalized at the top of the year in January. And my publisher was very, very, was very much so was like, here's what we're thinking in terms of deadline. Um, we will, what do you think? Right? It wasn't like a decide and announce. It was like, oh, here's a proposal and we want you to react to the proposal. And the date that they picked was October 1st. And in my head, I'm like, oh, that's plenty of time. We're talking January till October, you know, from a timeline standpoint, we got about nine months to be able to get through the book. And I host a three-day annual live event called Seven Figure Educator Live. And last year, when the book manuscript was due, Seven Figure Educator Live, the first day of the event was October 3rd.

Speaker 1 26:41

Yes.

Speaker 26:42

Manuscript was October 1st. And in my head, I'm like, that's perfect. I'll get it out of the way before the big event. And it'll be, you know, behind me before I go into the event. I don't know in what world I thought that hosting, and we're not talking a baby event of like 20 people. Like that year at SFE, we welcomed 400 people to Atlanta for the event. I don't know in what world. Let's let's just say it's a wedding. Okay, maybe some people can relate to that. You're hosting a wedding of 400 people two days after your manuscript is due. Like, who does that? Who does that? I did it. I did it. Don't ask me why. I do not take pride in those types of decisions. I had the reverse thinking when I decided that. And it was the opposite experience to where I'm actually incredibly grateful that I had Meghan's team during that time because what that meant is for anybody who's ever hosted any type of event, whether it's personal or in your business, whether it was a wedding, whether it was a baby shower, whether it was a birthday party, whether it was a retreat, whatever, you know that 90 days prior to the event, all the things are going on. You are finalizing, you know, attendees. You are getting the schedule, agenda, run of show, whatever you call it together, getting all the food together. 90 days prior to the event, it's when all the things are happening. So that was my reality at the same time of 90 days before a manuscript is due. What's the reality 90 days before a manuscript is due? It's all the passes at all the chapters, it's all the nitty-gritty work that has to happen to get it to the finish line. And I actually think we got it sent in a couple of days early.

Meghan 28:29

We did, yeah.

Speaker 28:30

And so uh to have the the peak moments of my event as well as that manuscript happening at the same time, there were moments where I was like, Meghan, I cannot read this entire book again. Like I, because at this point, like I've already read it for voice, I've already read it for for content, I've read it for like I've done all the things that I could do. The point that we are now at is we are now looking for grammar. That ain't my role. Like, I need someone else to do this. I need someone to cross T's and dot I's and then post the event. Post the event, all the things are still happening in our business because we're closing out. We now have new people we're we're welcoming into the program. And now we're getting feedback from the editor during that time. And most of the feedback is not uh content specific, it's grammar specific and voice. And there's some things I'm very specific about when it comes to you're not about to change my voice. Like this is this is this is who I am, this is how I talk, this is who I'm talking to. You're not about to water me down, whitewash me down. So I there are I'm a lookover, but Meghan, you do the first pass and you flag because this is this is my very clear sandbox. You flag anything that needs to be flagged for me. Yeah, because Meghan already knew my value system, she could literally go through, and you have a better idea than I do. In in one chapter, how many comments would there be from an editor? Just to give the people an idea of like, because the when you get the red lines back, it's all in like comments. And I mean, just to get in one chapter, how many comments would you say?

Meghan 30:21

I just did one. So just I did one recently, and it was for an author of color, which I always think is funny because the majority of people that work in traditional publishing are white. And when I say they're white, I mean they're white as fuck. They're really white. And I have to be like, you know, you don't know anything about culture at all. Uh, you don't know anything about my author. Like, I gotta correct this. And I'm running a lot of inference on that. So I just did a copy edit. It took me reviewing the copy edit, and I've seen these, right? I've done hundreds of these at this point. Um, it took me two full days, two full working days. So that's probably about nine hours for me. Um, so I would say in any given chapter, it's probably 120, 150, 200. A lot, a lot. It's the whole page is red because I'm not a grammar expert. My team, we have a copy editor, but she just does a cursory look later because we know there's copy editors at the publisher, and this is something they're going to do. Now, we might disagree with them. My favorite thing to cite there is that I had a copy editor on a book by um Hidden Prophet by Jamie Troll, that copy editor that was assigned to that book thought every phrase that said super. So, for example, superpower should be a compound word. Now, super power, yeah, everybody thinks of that as one word. It's a compound word, right? You take two words, you put them into one word, but like super smart, most people would use that as two words. So I have to correct that the whole way through. Now, most authors that would want them, make them want to shoot themselves in the head. Not everyone, but a lot of people would be like, I can't, right? And so our team and I, we do that kind of leverage. We also handle the editors' comments. Hay House uses a system that most publishers don't, where they have different acquisitions and developmental editors, meaning they have someone who buys the rights to publish your book who is like, Yes, Erica should have a book. And then there's someone that gets into the nitty-gritty structure and editorial of the book. A lot of times, especially with Hay House, just because they have that structure, um, the edits tend to be really light developmentally, meaning like the structure and the um, you know, the organization, because we're editors. Um, you know, Blair, my other collaborator, and I are editors ourselves, so we understand what they're gonna do, and often we don't need that kind of developmental lift. Um, and so yeah, those we're seeing all of that throughout the stages and we're helping you because I do want to bring you a punch list. The the shorter a punch list I can bring you of things that I need your opinion on, the better for everybody.

Speaker 32:54

Yes, and I think I I think that's so helpful of a snapshot to give people because in a very direct way, going back to my list, it doesn't make me money and doesn't bring me joy. Reading 120 comments and a just a chapter, and I had 10 chapters, yeah, that is gonna bring me joy. I'm not doing that. Now it's important, it's important, but that's why having uh Meghan and her team to be the one that will do the first pass, and like she said, to have a punch list to where these are my rules, this is what is really important to me. And at the end of the day, like I'll do a final review of everything afterwards, just so that way, you know, I'm good, I'm clear, like there is nothing that is in the book that, you know, I haven't seen clearly, right? But like from the perspective of where do I spend my time, I do not consider the best youth my time to be going through and confirming if there's an apostrophe that's supposed to be there or not, or if there should be a space or not. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. And it's important to get to the finish line. So that was a huge, huge uh value add. Uh, and I think the the last thing I'll say here is you know, I think it is it is an immense value that you have a background in the publishing industry. So there were times where it was hitting Meghan on the side. I'm like, this thing just happened. I'm just asking for a little advice. This is advice, not like you need to tell me what to do, but like, because this is not my world, this is the world that you came from. What do I need to know? What are some things that I should just be aware of? Like, does this typically happen this way? Does this typically happen that way? I got my cover back, I hated it, but I was scared to tell my publisher what I hated it. So I'm like, is this typical? Is this not typical? I don't want to like just, you know, say this way. Do I say, well, what how have you seen people navigate in this past? So Meghan's experience actually working in the publish industry, there's a technical experience, but then there's also the sector and market experience that I think is of value as well.

Meghan 35:14

Definitely. I mean, because we've seen it all, right? Between Blair and I, we have like, I don't even know, 30, 35 years of experience, something crazy. So we've seen it all. So, like, you hate your cover, like, yeah, everybody does. Here's how you're gonna be productive. Oh, this thing's happening. Here's your contacts that's happening behind the scenes. This is why it's not personal, or maybe this is why it is, and you need to go talk to your agent because your agent's gonna be the best advocate for you in this situation, right? Yes, that's definitely a value

Finding The Right Literary Agent

Meghan 35:41

add. I want to go back to the value add, maybe in the proposal process of like, how did you experience the literary agent process compared to some entrepreneurs you know that wanted to get book deals?

Speaker 35:56

So, this is a great question. I love this question because I know of other people's experience, and I'm like, I don't know how you could do that in an like, I don't know how anybody could go into it. I'm like, I'm not picking any other way, right? So I think that goes back to the value add of the experience that you have in the industry. Like these agents are people you know, and not just people you know, the, you know, what is an e seray that has the quote that like everybody, you know, is is looking to network up, but there's value in being able to network across. And because those are the people that as you all continue to grow in your career and your profession, they are going to be in formal positions of authority. And so the fact that you are your background is in the publishing industry, there are agents who y'all were editors together and like, you know, you were back in the day, like you've connected with people. And so these are not, you know, strangers that it it created the opportunity for you to do some warm handshakes, which I'm super, super grateful for. Is the moment we got to the finalization of the proposal, you were able to do warm handshakes. And it wasn't just a, oh, I'm just gonna send it to these agents. It's thinking through, okay, given who I am, given my values, given what's important to me, who is an agent that would be able to be my best partner through this? Yep. Because the role of an agent, which now I can speak very clearly to, is the agent is the one that's pitching your book, not you.

Meghan 37:30

Yep. Yep.

Speaker 37:32

Which means the agent has to be as invested, as passionate around your book and your topic to sound like you when they are going to the publisher, because by the time you get to the publisher, they've already been told what it is, right? And so, like, you're not the face that is actually or the voice that's introducing the book. So it's really, really important to me that the agent that I worked with deeply understood what was at stake for educators and it felt a personal level of responsibility when it came to education, that they could speak about it just as passionately as I could. And so that process, I honestly don't know how anybody can find an agent without a warm handshake, just given the landscape of it. And so incredibly grateful that that was something you were able to do for me.

Meghan 38:24

The other thing that I think people don't realize is that the agent's reputation also walks with your proposal, right? So if you have an agent that is well respected and has a track history of best-selling books and has a good reputation. I remember when we would get projects and we would be like, Who's the agent? would be a question that we would have at the meeting when we were considering what books to acquire and what books to reject. And some people would be like, Oh, that agent's such a pain to work with. Like, we're not dealing with that, or that's a negative in the side of this project. I don't personally put my bothers with anybody who has that reputation because I know how important it is in terms of getting a deal and actually having that be a good relationship and a good outcome for everyone involved. Okay, great. That's such a good question. All right, I want to talk

New York Times Goal And Launch Plan

Meghan 39:16

about something else. So you have been public in having the goal of making your book, Seven Figure Educator, a New York Times bestseller. Why is that goal important to you?

Speaker 39:27

Yeah, it's important to me, not for the reasons I think most people would probably assume. I think most people would probably assume because I want to be a New York Times bestseller, and that is not it. To me, it's really around what this book stands for. First off, what other and what other places, spaces have we heard the term seven figure and educator together?

Speaker 1 39:51

Right?

Speaker 39:51

Like in this country, that would be considered an oxymoron to be able to actually pair a term that means millions with the term educator, that just does not exist in this country because of how profusely undervalued and underpaid educators are in this country. And so for me, as a former teacher, as a former principal who has done the work and knows many, many of people who've done the work and not just friends and colleagues, but I literally think about as a principal, every single teacher that would wake up at the crack of dawn, get out of their bed, get themselves ready, get in a car, drive to a building, and be the first one in the building to prepare. Welcome kids with the warmest of energy, close the door and teach their butts off, stay late after school, grading papers, getting ready for the next day, making parent phone calls, driving home where now the sun has set and they're going back home to spend time with their families that has been cut short because they stayed late after school and they're doing all of that for $40,000, $50,000, $60,000, right? To me, that is such an incredible injustice. And to know that it does not have to be that way, but we also can't wait on the system to change it, that educators are the best position profession to become entrepreneurs because they are already entrepreneurial and running classrooms, schools, and districts. And so when we talk about why New York Times and why that's the goal, it's because I do not want this to be the best kept secret. Because I believe every single educator deserves to be a millionaire. And so that's for me, is why that's the goal. It's not about me, it's not about Erica Jordan Thomas. It is literally about the message, the rallying cry that if anybody deserves to be a millionaire, it's an educator. That's what deserves to be on the New York Times list.

Meghan 42:15

I love that so much. And I think that also gets lost in the brouhaha about author platform building and all that, too. It's like you're not building this following to feel good about your follower account, right? You're building a following so you can make an impact. What investments have you made to pursue your goal of becoming a New York bestseller?

Speaker 42:35

Oh, yes. So I have made the investments in a few different ways. So I named before, so I'm a planner, which I learned in the book, that love me a good uh plan and strategy. And so part of laying down the foundation of this, I mentioned was team and being able to get my team together to be able to actually have a book launch. And so part of that, it was interesting to think that uh prior to for the longest part of uh my business, um, I didn't have a full-time marketing person because I was doing the marketing. And so uh part of that was starting to lay down the foundations of our marketing department. And so I've hired marketing manager who's now our director of marketing. Uh, they have a marketing coordinator to be able to support with the admin task. And so, really being able to build internal infrastructure in the in the form of human capacity related to marketing, because a book is not a 90-day campaign. Like we're talking 12 to 24 months of being able to run the play with this book. So that was thing number one is being able to invest on the people side. Of course, obviously, you and your team, uh, being able to invest on the support of a the proposal, support on the manuscript. And I think it's important. We started to touch on this, but just to name it, the work still happens. After you submit the manuscript. Like there's still lots of things that have to happen after that. So it's not just like get to submitting the manuscript. There's all the backend editing that has to happen. So you all were huge, huge, immense support in that. I got a book coach. So someone who has done book launches before and has had multiple bestsellers. So shout out to Levia Jahi, who's been an immense support in being able to help put language to a book support or to a book launch. I've gotten PR support just to be able to increase top of funnel visibility, whether that's on podcast, I have a uh radio interview on Sirius XM tomorrow. I'm on the West Coast today, so it's at 5:30 a.m. in the morning. Sun uh speaking engagement. So, and then there's you know some like marketing things that I'm thinking about. It's like, how do we make so a part of like seven-figure educator means that there's a level of experience that we are are thoughtful about? So, how do we make the book an experience where I want to do a book box, right? And it may not actually be a box, right? And so, like, how do we we create an experience behind the book? This week happens to be Teacher Appreciation Week and partnering with our PR folks to come up with ideas for how to actually maximize teacher appreciation week and really connect with folks in the social media space uh who can continue to elevate and spread the word. So those are just at a high level, a number of the investments that I've made to be able to support the book.

Rapid Growth Advice And Closing

Meghan 45:38

Because I know you, I know that as an entrepreneur and just as a grown woman, you invest a lot in yourself and in specifically your business development. How do you think that mindset of always investing in help has shaped your success as an entrepreneur and an author?

Speaker 45:56

Yeah. So the average business grows 10 to 15% per year. We grow at least 30% or more every year, year to year. And uh and that status from Harvard Business Review. If somebody wants to wheel it, because I'm gonna cite my source, okay? Uh giving you. I love it. I'm here for it. And we grow faster because I learn faster, right? And so that's a whole word. So that is as my philosophy. And I mean, I don't think it's a coincidence I'm an educator, right? And I have a bias towards learning, but I think I think I think it's important to name because I think this happens, I know this happens for educators. Is is oftentimes because we've been socialized to value learning, we actually use studying as a passive form of procrastination where we would just study, study, study, pay for more and more information, but we don't actually execute. So there's there's step one of like paying for the access and paying for the knowledge. And then there's step two of you got to run the play, you've got to execute. And so, you know, I've I've learned this over time, and and it's not a coincidence on strength finders for anybody who's familiar with that assessment. One of my top five strengths is Activator, where if I have an idea, the moment I get clarity, I will start executing within 24 hours. Whether that's a project brief, whether that's an email, whether that's a social media post, whatever, I will start executing. And so I think um, you know, if anything, I find, I find uh solace in the fact that even though in this country, you know, I have a lot of identity markers that are historically oppressed, and the way that I think, you know, I find my way of evening the playing field is I'll just pay for access. Like I'll just pay for the answer. Like I'm because money's green. Okay, so all my green. So I'll just pay to be able to speed up. Um, and that is is really important to me.

Meghan 47:53

I love that so much. Okay. Last question that I ask everybody. So, like a lot of entrepreneurs and listeners of this podcast, you had to grow your audience and your business in order to get a book deal. What would be your best advice for the experts, entrepreneurs, thought leaders, and creators listening to this podcast who need to do the same?

Speaker 48:16

The advice I would give for entrepreneurs who need to grow their audience, I would say somebody's not gonna like this. I would say to post three to six times a day. All right. And the reason why someone's not gonna like it, and the reason why I'm saying three to six times a day is if you're only posting once a day, you have to go a whole 24 hours until you get a new data point.

Meghan 48:49

Okay, this is new.

Speaker 48:52

Posting three to six times a day, it's three to six experiments where now you're three Xing, six Xing the data you're getting back where you get to test three to six times a day of what potentially works for your audience. And if you post three to six times a day, you'll be able to get feedback in a day that if you're only posting once a day, it's gonna take you one to two months to be able to get that same level of feedback. So, of course, there's strategies of you know how to be able to have that level of output in production. It does not have to be that hard because content is not hard. Your process is so if it feels hard, that means your process is not what it needs to be. But I would say post three to six times a day, specifically for you just need to get as much data back as possible to be able to figure out what's resonating with your audience so that way you can double down on that.

Meghan 49:45

I love that, and I, you know, when I taught platform building, I used to teach, like, yes, you throw spaghetti at the wall, but then you run up with a cup and you measure what's stuck, right? Because a lot of people content out there and they don't know, like you have to say, like, what actually moves my audience, and like surveying your audience is really helpful, but like understanding like what actually is their problem, what actually is there diversity in that problem? Are there are you targeting the people you need to target? All of those questions only come with data, and the faster you can Iiterate and get data, the better off you are. So I completely agree with you. Fantastic, y'all. If you want more gems like that, and I I promise that Seven Figure Educator, you know, Erica and I worked on this book for literally two years. It is full of gems, it is full of great information like that. If you know that you need to grow your business, if you want to beat the odds of that 10 to 15% growth year over year in your business, Seven Figure Educator is the book to help you do that, especially if you are trying to grow your business from up to $250,000 or more in revenue. So, Erica, thank you so much for coming on the kind of a big book deal podcast. I know that all the listeners and viewers will really enjoy hearing your experience. So thank you so, so much. And everybody else.

unknown 51:05

Thank you.

Meghan 51:06

Cheers to your success.

Speaker 51:08

W7thenumbook.com and grab your copy of the book.

Meghan 51:14

Grab your copy of the book, and I'm sure there's some Bennies as well, especially for those of you buying in the first week on sale when this episode drops. So thank you, Erica, and everyone else. Until next time, cheers to your success. Thanks for tuning in to the kind of a big book deal podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you subscribe and also leave a review. Not only is this good for my ego and annoying for my enemies, but it also helps more entrepreneurs like ourselves find this podcast. Also, I'm pretty sure it's good for a month. See you next time.