How to Get a Literary Agent with Dani Segelbaum of Arc Literary Management

A book deal is not just about having a great idea. It is about knowing how publishing really works before you step into the room. In this episode of Kind of a Big Book Deal, Meghan Stevenson talks with literary agent Dani Segelbaum about what entrepreneurs, experts, and creators need to understand before chasing traditional publishing.

Dani shares why literary agents matter, from contract negotiations and publisher relationships to helping authors understand what is really happening behind the scenes. She also explains what agents look for in nonfiction authors: strong ideas, real platform, proven audience demand, and the willingness to sell the book hard.

Meghan and Dani also break down the success of Caitlin V’s book and why trusting your audience can challenge old publishing assumptions. This episode is especially useful for entrepreneurs who want their book to become more than a passion project. It shows why platform-building, clear positioning, and the right book team can make the difference between a book that sits on a shelf and one that actually reaches people.

This week’s guest is Dani Segelbaum. Dani has nearly a decade of experience working in the publishing industry. She joined Arc Literary in 2024 after three years at the Carol Mann Agency. She began her publishing career as an editorial assistant at HarperCollins Publishers, focusing primarily on highly designed non-fiction titles. She previously worked as a literary assistant at New Leaf Literary & Media. Dani has worked on bestselling and award-winning books by authors including Justin Timberlake, Iris Apfel, Ann Patchett, and Jacqueline Winspear. 

Born and raised in Minneapolis, Dani is a graduate of Boston University’s College of Communication where she studied journalism and political science. In college, she worked as an intern for Marie Claire Magazine and as a writer for Boston Common Magazine and the Milford Daily News. Dani has been a voracious reader for as long as she can remember. She represents a wide range of both fiction and non-fiction in the adult and children's spaces, working with New York Times bestselling and debut authors, and is passionate about collaborating with authors from diverse backgrounds to tell stories that are meaningful to them.

In nonfiction, she is particularly drawn to books in the areas of women’s issues, popular culture, illustrated/photography, history, politics, self-help, and current events. She also loves narrative non-fiction, biography, business, lifestyle, and cookbooks. Dani collaborates with a diverse range of authors, including illustrators, photographers, academics, psychologists, and journalists.

In fiction, Dani seeks contemporary and upmarket adult fiction, historical fiction, rom-coms, and women’s fiction. She loves compelling narrators and is drawn to writing that is voice-driven, highly transporting, and features unique perspectives and marginalized voices.

Outside of her professional life, Dani enjoys spending time with her Aussiedoodle, trying out new restaurants with her husband, and indulging in her cookbook collection (which has officially reached "too many" status). Her guilty pleasures include reading the newspaper late at night and baking a never-ending array of treats for family and friends—many of which come straight from her extensive collection of cookbooks.

Dani is a member of the AALA.

Find Dani at 
instagram.com/danisegelbaum/ 
x.com/danisegelbaum
querytracker.net/query/danisegelbaum/
manuscriptacademy.com/faculty-members/dani-segelbaum 

Episode Highlights:
(0:00) Intro
(1:19) Meet Literary Agent Dani Segelbaum
(3:27) From HarperCollins Editor to Literary Agent
(5:05) Why Authors Need Literary Agents
(8:28) Putting Authors First in Publishing
(11:11) What Agents Look for in Authors
(13:38) Caitlin V’s Book and Market Resistance
(18:52) Turning Expertise Into a Sellable Book
(23:31) Queries, Referrals, and Proposal Access
(27:10) Dani’s Personal Agenting Approach
(33:21) The Truth About Marketing Your Book
(38:38) Building Platform Before the Book Deal
(42:47) Final Thoughts and Listener Callout

Have a great idea for a book but don't know where to start? MeghanStevenson.com/quiz


Traditional publishing expert Meghan Stevenson blasts open the gates of the “Big 5”—Penguin Random House, Simon & Schuster, HarperCollins, Hachette, and Macmillan—to share what every entrepreneur and expert needs to know about landing a book deal. 

In episodes released every Monday, Meghan shares wisdom and stories from 20+ years in publishing as well as interviews with authors, literary agents, and editors. She also answers questions from listeners like you. 

Whether you are an experienced entrepreneur with an empire, or are just starting out—this podcast will help you understand what you need to do in order to turn your dream of being a bestselling author into real life. 

Transcript

Cold Open On Being Human

Speaker 1 0:00

I think our clients love us is because we treat them like people. We are not just like a client or something on our checklist. We treat each person like their project is special and important and one of the kind because it is.

Meghan 0:19

Welcome

Welcome And Guest Background

Meghan 0:20

to the Kind of a Big Book Deal podcast where entrepreneurs come to learn about traditional publishing. I'm your host, Meghan Stevenson. After working as an editor for two of the biggest traditional publishers, I started my own business helping entrepreneurs to become authors. To date, my clients have earned over $7 million from publishers including Penguin Random House, Simon Schuster, Harper Collins, and Hay House, just to name a few. In these podcast episodes, I will blast open the well-kept gates to traditional publishing. I'm going to explain what every entrepreneur needs to know about landing a book deal without losing your mind. I'm going to share stories, answer your questions, interview the successful authors I've had the pleasure to work with, and probably say platform more than a tech pro. So if you dream of landing on a bestseller list but have no idea how, this is the podcast for you, and I am so, so glad you're here. Alright, y'all, so we are joined by another literary agent and my friend on the pod, Danny Siegelbaum, has nearly a decade's worth of experience working in traditional publishing. She began, like me, as an editorial assistant, except she was at HarperCollins and spent three years at the Carol Mann Literary Agency before joining ARC Literary in 2024. Danny represents a wide range of both fiction and nonfiction in adult and children's, working with New York Times bestselling and debut authors, and Danny is passionate about collaborating with authors from diverse backgrounds, same, to tell stories that are meaningful to them. In nonfiction, Danny is particularly drawn to books in the areas of women's issues, popular culture, illustration, and photography, history, politics, self-help, and current events. She loves narrative nonfiction, biography, business, lifestyle, and cookbooks, and collaborates with a diverse range of authors, including illustrators, photographers, academics, psychologists, and journalists. Outside of her professional life, Danny enjoys spending time with her Aussie Doodle, who may make an appearance today. Definitely. Trying out new restaurants with her husband and indulging in her cookbook collection. Her guilty pleasures include reading the newspaper late at night and baking a never-ending array of treats for family and friends, many of which come from her extensive collection of cookbooks. Danny and I have known each other for a minute, but only recently got to work on a book together by our mutual client and friend of the pod, Caitlin V. Welcome to the kind of a big book deal, Danny.

Speaker 1 2:52

I'm so excited to be here. This is so fun. And I love that we can swear on this podcast, I feel at home.

Meghan 2:58

It's the fucking best. I don't have a filter, so I'm not even trying. Like I was like, they listed it as clean, and I was like, I asked my podcast rooster, I was like, for real. And he's like, oh, he'll just he's like, they'll mark the explicit ones. And I was like, okay. Um all right. So I have to admit you're not the first literary agent on the podcast. So Steve Troja of Folio Lit, who you know and I know, uh beat you to the punch, but that just means he covered the basic shit, and we get to go more into the weeds and more into the depth. So I want to start with you and your story. Can you tell

Leaving HarperCollins For Agenting

Meghan 3:30

us a little bit about how you decided to leave a position in editorial at HarperCollins to become a literary agent in the first place?

Speaker 1 3:38

It was funny, I guess. When I first joined HarperCollins, they asked me if I knew any literary agents, and I was like, I don't even know what a literary agent is. And then as I, you know, started acquiring books and working with the agents that my bosses worked with, I very quickly realized, oh, I actually like their job better than mine. I really loved working with the authors from the start and coming up with ideas and really building that like author relationship, I guess. And I realized agents that was primarily their job. So I just decided, you know, okay, I really want to explore sort of that side of publishing. And I was so glad I did because, you know, I that's the best part of my job is working so closely with the authors on everything from like a little blip of idea to a full book, you know. So that's sort of how I sort of say switch to the dark side, if you will.

Meghan 4:40

I love it. I love it. And it's so funny because everyone's like, why aren't you an agent, Meghan? Because we do so much project development with our authors, but I'm agent stuff without being the agent, essentially.

Speaker 4:50

Yeah, kind of, yeah. I do all the editorial mark of an agent without being an agent, which brings me to something interesting.

Meghan 4:56

So, one of the differences between like the self-hybrid indie space in publishing and traditional publishing is the presence of literary agents. So, why do you think having a literary agent is good for authors and especially the entrepreneurs, experts, and creators who are listening to this podcast who want to work in the prescriptive or how-to

What Agents Do For Authors

Meghan 5:15

space?

Speaker 1 5:16

Yeah, it's something that I talk about with authors all the time is it comes down to what your goals are. Do you just want to write something and get it out and you don't care if you know only a small number of people read it, or do you want it to be in bookstores nationwide? You know, you know, that's usually where I start is like how how long and committed to you are part of this process, right? Finding a literary agent is not a quick thing. So I think it really comes down to like what do you see for yourself for your project? Do you see yourself becoming a career author? You know, what what does that look like? And that's sort of where I start. And then, you know, I get into the reasons of why you need an agent, right? Whether it comes down to everything from contract negotiation, putting you in connection with, you know, publishers at the big five, right? And beyond. Uh, they don't take submissions from people who don't have agents. You hate your cover and you wanna, you know, you need someone to help you negotiate getting a better cover. It could be anything. It comes down to your goals of do you just want this out in the world and you don't care? Or do you want to traditionally publish with a Penguin Random House, a Simon and Schuster, a HarperCollins, and you want someone who is on your team negotiating for you and has your back every step of the way. Everything from how much money you're gonna get to how your royalties look, to what your cover is, to what your title is, and do you have control over even, you know, requesting specifics for your title and subtitle, right? It's everything from the small to the big. And that's sort of our job is to be your fearless leader, I guess, throughout the process. And when it comes to entrepreneurs, you guys, you know, you work with people who are incredible business people, like take Caitlin, for example. She's an amazing businesswoman. But, you know, a lot of times even the best business people don't really understand the nuances of the publishing industry. And that's where we come in to sort of say, here's how this is gonna help your business, here's what you should do, here's how we can, you know, have your cover sort of match your branding and your titles and things like that, where it's only gonna help you as an entrepreneur grow. And part of that is getting your book in as many bookstores as possible and getting the coverage that it deserves. And so that's sort of how we how we help. That's a very long-winded answer, I realized.

Meghan 7:48

I love that though, because that's a really nuanced answer. I remember a conversation I had with my mom of all people when I was working, I think, at Simon and Schuster, and she was like, Wait, do you work for the authors or do they work for you? And I was like, kind of both. Oh, but both in our job and in your job, we I mean, ultimately the editor works for the house, right? But like they work, you know, an editor at Simon Schuster works for the Simon and Schuster. But like in our rules, both me as a professional collaborator or traditional publishing expert, and you as a literary agent, we work directly for the author. So although we have this second constituency of our colleagues at the publishing houses, they are a second constituency. Our authors come first.

Speaker 1 8:28

Yeah, absolutely. My job is to, you know, be bad cop, essentially, and whatever you know, you the author wants, my job is to work with the publisher to make the author happy, right? That's the goal. And they should, it's their project, it's something that they've worked on for so many years, put their heart and soul into. It should be a product that they're happy with, and that they're ready to, you know, scream from the rooftops that they wrote this book. So we we want the authors to be happy.

Meghan 8:59

And there's inherently an imbalance of power because the publisher has multiple books, you know, hundreds of books, thousands of books a year at like a PRH, versus like the author who often has like one book. You know, in our spaces, we have one book often. There's only a couple of authors I've worked with that have had a second or third book, and so it's important to acknowledge that and like having you know a professional collaborator on your side, having a literary agent on your side who has relationships with these people that aren't just limited to one book is a really powerful asset for authors to have.

Speaker 1 9:32

Yeah, and it's an interesting balance, right? Because the publisher does have that institutional knowledge and they do have the understanding of what sales looks like and what marketing and publicity look like. And usually their suggestions are to better help the book. And it's also my job to say to the author, here's where the publisher is coming from, here's why they're saying these things and why they suggest, you know, this should say this or this looks like this. And for a lot of for anyone, not even entrepreneurs, but any type of author, you know, they don't have that understanding. Why would they? So, you know, it's it's my job along with the editor to sort of sit there and help explain, you know, here's why they're saying this, right? Which is sometimes confusing.

Meghan 10:17

Yes. No, it makes sense because you're kind of like an advocate on both sides. It's a lot of translation, right? Because I think a lot of times publishers or editors will say stuff and the author like pops off not understanding the context. And so then it's for us to jump in and and do a little like we do a lot of back channeling, we do a lot of working.

Speaker 1 10:36

We do a lot of therapy, we do a lot of big feelings, discussions. Absolutely. Yes.

Meghan 10:42

Yeah, totally, yeah. Because I think a lot of it is translation, right? And it's like, here's what the publisher's thinking, here's how they're operating, and then here's how that affects you, versus like you know, authors that are on their own but just pop off because it's so emotional for them, it's not a product for them in the way it is for a publisher.

Speaker 1 11:00

Okay, so I want to talk to you that mediator of like here's what you're both feeling. How can we come together in the middle here? So it's fun. It's fun. I love

What Wins Nonfiction Representation

Speaker 1 11:10

it.

Meghan 11:11

So, as an agent, when you're looking for people to represent, what do you look for in clients and projects?

Speaker 1 11:17

It's a great question. I think it depends on whether it's children's fiction, nonfiction. We can start with nonfiction because that's generally what you do. For nonfiction, I'm definitely looking for that person that's a go-getter. That is like the first and foremost thing is are you going to hustle? Are you going to essentially work your ass off to write this book and to sell this book? That's number one. You know, I look at people's platforms. Unfortunately, like that's just the world we're in, is you have to be someone, something to sell the book because the publisher is gonna ask, why you? Why are you the one to write this? And you got to answer it. So that's also what I'm looking for. Someone who is a collaborator, collaborator, someone who I don't feel like I'm gonna have to, you know, babysit or pull teeth to sort of get to the finish line here. You know, this should be this should be a comfortable collaboration for both of us, right? We're gonna be spending a lot of time and a lot of energy together, and we have to get along. Um, so that's sort of like at I guess the baseline of what of what we're what I'm looking for in a author partnership. But really, it comes down to, especially for nonfiction in this environment, is can you sell this book? Who are you to write this book? And are you gonna be a go-getter and hustle and really just promote the shit out of this book? That that's the big thing.

Meghan 12:45

I mean, we harp I harp on that a lot, right? It's this idea of like the platform isn't just you want to write a book and now you have a book deal. It's not how that works, right? You have to show that you're able to sell the book. And usually that comes in the form of selling other things, whether that's online courses, prod digital products, coaching, yeah, you know, consulting, keynotes, etc., etc. So I'm gonna I want to talk about our mutual client. Her books are like that here, Caitlin V. So her book, Harder, Better, Longer, Stronger, I always have to double check that title. Oh yeah. Came out earlier this year, and it it topped a lot of lists, right? It was like, I love to say that it's number one in male impotence. It's like my favorite thing to drop on Amazon. But initially, you know, even though she's got, I think, almost a million subscribers across social media platforms, including YouTube, I had a hard time finding an agent to believe in the project. So, what did you see when uh like I sent you that proposal?

Speaker 1 13:43

I was so excited to see this. I immediately knew it was gonna probably ruffle some feathers for people and still does, even though the book is out. I think

Selling A Book Others Avoid

Speaker 1 13:55

people assumed that like no one was gonna touch that because it was sex and men. Um, sex and women, okay. Lots of books on it, people love it. Sex and men, no one wanted to touch it. And I was like, there's this gap in the marketplace. There's you know, the come as you are for women, where's the men's one? They need a book. And Caitlin was the perfect person to say I've built my entire career on proving people wrong about this, and I have hundreds of clients, thousands of clients who are men who need a book. If they're gonna pay hundreds of dollars for a course, what's stopping them from buying a $30 book? So I saw that as a fun challenge to be like, okay, I'm gonna prove everyone wrong. There was a lot of editors, even who were like, oh, I'm not even gonna bring this to my team because I don't even know where to begin. I'm uncomfortable. And I I knew there was gonna be someone who's who also saw the vision that this deserved to be out in the world.

Meghan 14:59

So and it ended up being an editor in a hay house, which is perfect for this book. And yes, and it was so funny that they I I thought it was I my next question was gonna be what was the reception from the editors when you said that it did it, but that that uncomfortability. So there's like a lot of axioms or or notions in publishing that like kind of are like old wives' tales, yeah. And one of those things is like men don't buy books, I wouldn't it's not true, but it's like the the actual truth, and I don't remember where I learned this, but it's like men don't buy books except when they do, those become massive bestsellers, right? And like I always remembered that, and one of my first successes in publishing was the Brook Code, which uh I acquired in like 2007, and it sold like I don't know, half a million copies, some crazy shit. But like it's that idea of the game by Neil Strauss, uh Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins. Same idea, right? It's like men don't buy books, except when they do, they buy them en masse.

Speaker 1 16:01

Absolutely. And I don't know if it was because it was written by a woman that people were like, oh, this is confusing. Um, editors, some loved it and just couldn't get their team on board, as you and I both know. A lot of sales teams are men, you know, and so I think they were probably the the gap of oh, I don't think any of my friends are gonna buy this or anyone I know that would buy this. And so some were just like, absolutely not, this is not for me, I'm not touching it. And you know, Hayhouse saw that there was a gap in the market and said, This needs to be this needs to be out there, which is awesome. But yes, I hear every day men don't buy books, and I don't know, my brother's a reader, my husband's a reader. I don't believe that. Some men read, you know.

Meghan 16:52

A lot of men read. I think we undercut men a lot in in. I agree, I agree.

Speaker 1 16:57

Yeah, I think we undercut men a lot, and I think that you know, they they do they write, they read, they're entrepreneurs, you know, they might not be, you know, they might be a smaller segment of the reading audience, but in nonfiction, I think they make up a big chunk of there's not exactly like a a men's fiction section in the bookstore, like there is the women's section, but uh I think I think they're buying more books than we assume.

Meghan 17:22

Yeah, my husband, also a reader, he listens to audiobooks. Um, but like it is this idea of like they do buy books, so like we should also serve them too. But it's I love that we brought up the the preconceived notion of the editors and people at publishing houses who work at publishing houses without sales, marketing, and publicity. It's that fallacy of just because I wouldn't do it means that no one would do it, and that is like a classic mental fallacy that like you assume everyone's your experience, especially in this industry, so right, especially in this industry, and I think like what I saw from Caitlin was you have to trust the author.

Speaker 1 18:02

She knows that there's a huge audience out there who are begging for this book, and she was right, she was right, she was absolutely right. So I think it's like you gotta trust the author if they're selling courses and one-on-one therapy for thousands and thousands of dollars. Of course, people are gonna buy a $30 book.

Meghan 18:23

Yeah, of course they are, and she mobilized her audience, she got a ton of pre-orders. She was, you know, in the top 10 of all sexuality books on Amazon. Like she sold a lot of copies in the first couple of months on sale. Yeah, I think that's totally true. Except for Hay House. Hay House believed in her the whole time. Yes, they even moved her book up in the schedule to be the first book out because they bought another book about sexuality that they didn't want to compete with. It's kind of crazy, but I love it. So, what are the lessons I think from working with Caitlin that you would apply to future clients or that you think could be hopeful to the folks listening to this podcast, who, by the way, are entrepreneurs, experts, creators who want to be churchally published.

Speaker 1 19:05

Yeah. And I think what I loved working about Caitlin, working with Caitlin was she was a businesswoman. This was just a really fancy business card. And I loved that. She was like, I know what to put in this book, I know what this book should look like, and I know how to sell it. And that's what worked for her. And I would love to find a million more authors who, you know, are also entrepreneurial and say, this is just an extension of my business. This is just another thing that I can sell. It just happens to be a book. And that's what I loved about working with her is she knew from day one what this book was gonna look like. She knew how to sell it and it worked for her. I think, you know, more authors should trust their gut that they can, you know, just sell an extension of themselves. That's what people want. We don't need to come up with something crazy. Stick to what you know, stick to your gut of like, this is what I've been so successful at selling in courses, in speaking engagements, and other things, that of course people are gonna want to buy this $30 book. And so I think that's what has been incredible about working with Caitlin is she knows her audience really well.

Meghan 20:22

Yeah. And she validated the ideas in other ways. So that's the secret of building platform that people don't think about. They think, oh, I have to be like an Instagram influencer, and that's not it at all. It is actually you're validating your ideas, you're testing your audience, you're talking to them about what they want to know, you're understanding their problem and giving a solution based on your expertise, which then gets distilled into the book. You know, we took one of her courses that wasn't her best performing online course and used that as the backbone for the book. And although we changed editorially slightly, we did look at it and say, hey, like these are the problems that men face, let's write this out and make this, you know, we'll wrap a concept in it, which was, you know, outlined, I think, in chapter one the idea that sex is everywhere, and like how you go to the grocery stores, how you show up in bed, um, but which is the greatest analogy ever. But like the um, but like you know, that idea was like she had already done the course, and the course had made such a difference in our clients' lives, but it was already proven content. We just needed to organize it into book form. So Caitlin is one of many. How many clients do you represent? And how do you manage all of those authors in those books?

Speaker 1 21:31

How does that work? Great question. How many clients do I have? I would say I probably have like 30 some, 30 to 40, maybe, but they're not all active. I'm not fielding emails from 30 people.

Meghan 21:50

Right.

Speaker 1 21:53

You know, like Caitlin, her book just came out. She knows what to do. We're not exactly communicating every day. I have Maybe another author who I am working on their proposal right now and we are communicating all the time. Or someone whose book is about to come out and maybe we're not going back on edits because the book is already done, but now we're talking about publicity and marketing. Or I have fiction writers who are off writing their whole novels right now, and I'm not going to see them for a year until they finish their book. So it sort of depends. Every day for literary agent is different, which is why I love my job so much because one day I'm working on a book about baseball, the next I'm working on a book about sex, the next I'm working on a book for kids. Um and it's it's fun. You're always doing

Managing Many Authors At Once

Speaker 1 22:40

something new. But sometimes it can be hard to balance when you know you've probably had this happen where all of a sudden your authors all deliver on the same day. Yes, yes, yes. Did they talk to each other? Was it let's all email Danny our manuscripts at the same time? Which was, you know, it's great because we have so much to do, but it's also like, oh my God, all of you at once. But a lot of times, you know, my authors are working on different things and are at different stages in their books that I'm not, we're not all on the same path together. So it allows me to take on new clients because you know I can fit them in somewhere along the way in my puzzle of where they are in the process. But there are there are those days where you're like, oh, okay, they all deliver it on the same day.

Meghan 23:30

So you and I have a a different way of working than I would say the typical author would, right? When people work with me, they get the direct. If they're a good fit for you, I'm gonna send the proposal to you because we worked together on Caitlin's book. I I send you some proposals that haven't been a fit. But like, are you in the submission trenches? And what I mean by that, because I don't think I talked about this with Steve in our previous literary agent episode, is that most literary agents accept queries, especially on the fiction side. And that ends up being like, I remember when I was a baby assistant, my roommate was an agent's assistant, and she would come home, and this is like 2005, so like before digital queries, she would come home with a stack like this, and like lay on the couch and toss the ones that she wasn't interested in on the floor, and then leave, like you know, she'd come home with 100 pages and she'd take three, you know. So, like, are you in those trenches as well?

Speaker 1 24:24

Yeah, yeah. My query tracker is a scary place. I I got they give you like your stats at the end of the year, which I thought was really helpful. So last year on my query tracker alone, I got five over 5,000 queries. Wow, and of those, I think I requested 35. And of the 35, I probably like offered rep to a handful, like one, two, three, sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also because I wasn't, I am now requesting a lot more fiction because I want to do more fiction. Last year was not a time for me to be doing a lot more fiction, so I was requesting less. I mean, I'll say query tracker is mainly fiction, yeah.

Meghan 25:13

Usually, because you don't, I mean, nonfiction is a different animal, and that's what I always try to tell people. And that's why I want to talk about it briefly. I just recorded a podcast episode earlier today about why nonfiction, how to self-help prescriptive people shouldn't write whole manuscripts, and it's mainly because of that. You don't need to query and you can do a proposal instead. But I do think it's a good idea.

Speaker 1 25:37

A lot of our nonfiction is referrals.

Meghan 25:39

Yep,

Queries Referrals And Skipping Lines

Meghan 25:40

because entrepreneurs, experts, and creators know each other, and you know, when one starts talking about a book, pretty soon they start talking about the team that put them together with a book. It's not any different than if you, you know, take a mastermind and all of a sudden everybody in that mastermind is talking to each other about stuff. It's it's it's not very dissimilar to that. But it's interesting because I think that's one of the value ads that working with someone like me brings people is that like they don't have to be in those query trackers. Like I'd skip the line in a lot of ways, right?

Speaker 1 26:12

Like if you have relationships with some of the top agents in the industry that you're just sending out the proposal.

Meghan 26:19

I mean, yep, it's direct and it's almost like a submission. It's almost like a submission for you, too, because like when you submit, you your reputation goes with that proposal, right? So, like an editor might love all your shit, and so you're gonna move them to the top of that pile, or like when we used to get when we were editors, uh, when I was an editor, if we got a big agent, you know, from William Morris or one of the bigger agents, we would know. Or on the flip side, if it was a pain in the ass agent, we'd be like, Well, this is wrapped by this person. Well, I don't know. Do we want to deal with that agent for this project? You know what I mean? So it's always that question of like, what's the up and down side of it in terms of like that reputational aspect coming? So yeah, it's super interesting. Okay, so with that, this is kind of a tricky question, but I I want to ask it anyway. What do you think is your magic sauce or your unique approach when it comes to agenting and like traditional publishing in general? Like, what are you bringing to the party that maybe nobody else is?

Speaker 1 27:26

Yeah, I think I'm gonna be real and honest with you. Like, yes, this is a collaboration. The authors that I work with, we are a good, often personality fit. I am not gonna be like some super scary, you know, agent that, you know, you can't email me, you can't call me. You know, I'm a person. I'm a very, I would say, normal individual. And, you know, that is why I think, especially at ARC in general, we we talk about that. Like, I think our clients love us is because we treat them like people. We are not just like a client or something on our checklist. We treat each person like their project is special and important and one of a kind because it is. So I think you know, a lot of agents are probably intimidating and for maybe they deserve that or not, but um, I think you're gonna get a person when you're working with me. You're not getting some assistant, you're not getting AI, you're getting me. And you're getting, you know, the people on my team who work at ARC with me. And I think that's what you know sets us apart, is you're getting a real working personal relationship. Most of my clients, you know, I I know about their lives, I know what's going on, and I think that's helpful in how I can help them best succeed, right? So I think I think that's what we're really good at is that we are just we're hard working, we are committed and dedicated, but we are also really personable. I love that.

Meghan 29:04

Because it is still it's so funny. Publishing is like such a it's a retail business, ultimately, right? But it's it's so personal and so loaded with expectations and emotions and goals and dreams and ambitions. And so it is really important, I think, to have that boutique atmosphere and that very one-to-one kind of relationship with each of your clients.

Speaker 1 29:26

We're not gonna need something different, right? We're not doing your taxes where you come to me once a year and say, here's the papers, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred times a day, we're getting on Zoom calls and phone calls, and I'm reading your work that could be like something that you've spent 20 years working on, right? This is a very personal relationship, and so you know, we really I think pride ourselves on being being personal and kind. And you know, I think I think that's what sets us apart from a lot of agents where they're big and scary, and maybe you aren't getting that one-on-one touch.

Meghan 30:05

That was definitely the case with Caitlin. Because I remember her saying that she wanted to, like, the minute she met you, got off that call, she was like, I feel great about Danny. And she's like, I'll meet with the other people. But I'm really like it was such a vibe fit, and that's so so important when it comes to agents.

Speaker 1 30:24

Because

Vibe Fit And Danny’s Approach

Speaker 1 30:25

you know how how you know, how much time are we spending with these people? If we hate each other, if you're afraid to talk to me, this is probably not gonna work out very well.

Meghan 30:35

Yep, yep. I haven't had any disasters. The only thing I've really had in recent memory is a client where she had the choice between a pretty big name agent that you know everybody knows in the industry that repped one of her colleagues who was a very close colleague, and then another agent who's also super reputable, but she didn't have any like personal connections. And so she went with her personal connection agent, and she told me later she kind of regretted not going with the agent she had the better vibe with. And you know, where I kind of stand apart from that because it some of my clients would be like, What do you think? And I was like, What's most important is what you think. But with that now, with my client expressing that regret, I'm kind of like, Oh yeah, if I think you have a better vibe, I'm gonna say, Hey, go with the better vibe. Like, there's no just because your friend had success with this agent doesn't mean they're the right agent for you, and that's super important.

Speaker 1 31:32

Yeah, absolutely. Just like anything else, it might be a fit for someone, but it's not a fit for you. And again, it comes down to your goals. What are your goals? How do you want this relationship to look like? What do you want the final product to look like? And you know, we're often working with these people on one book for two years. So the it does need to have a vibe fit because you're gonna be working with them for a long time.

Meghan 31:57

Absolutely. I always say it uh good literary agent relationships should be someone you feel like you could have a drink with and that you also trust your money with, like that you can give bank account information to and not worry about it. Like that's like the level, right? It's it's very I like that saying a good lawyer in a lot of ways, but like it's that. So you want to be able to talk frankly but and trust them to advocate for you, um, while also then being able to have like camaraderie and friendship and like a good a good working relationship, ultimately.

Speaker 1 32:28

We should be able to go get a drink or a cup of coffee, and maybe we're not even talking about the book at all. You're also trusting me with you know, this huge, huge, you know, project and business and yes, your bank details. So that is true. I like that.

Meghan 32:44

Because like I should be able to trust you with my bank details, and also like that I could like leave you with a cocktail and not worry about getting roofied in the bathroom, right?

Speaker 1 32:52

Like exactly that that's a low bar, but yeah.

Meghan 32:55

It's not, I mean, yeah, it's a high bar, low bar, I don't know. Okay. So, what do you wish authors would ask you about traditional publishing or the publishing process?

Speaker 1 33:05

I think what authors I always say, you know, comes back to vibe check, right? How is the communication style? I've worked for people who are like, don't you dare email me. And then there's people who are like, yeah, this is, you know, two-way street here. I would love for them. I think a lot of authors have this notion that marketing publicity is a guarantee from the publisher. And then they get to that time, and it's the opposite. As we know, I think, you know, I wish they asked more about that and knew how much of like an uphill battle the selling of the book would be. And um, because I think they they think, you know, we're getting a book launch party and maybe a book tour, and my book is gonna be in this newspaper, in that magazine, on that podcast. And then when the time comes, you know, that's often not the case that it's coming from the publisher all the time. So I think, you know, I wish they asked more about that. That I don't think they know that the marketing publicity oftentimes falls 90% on them.

Meghan 34:14

Yeah, that's a big piece of education that I always want to bring to the table is that publishers don't know how to market your book because they can't market everything. You know, in the last year, I've worked on a diet book, a business book for black entrepreneurs, a business book for educators, and a sex book for men. How are they gonna reach all those people? All those and those are just poor books, you know. Penguin Random House is publishing a thousand books a year, maybe more. And how are they getting to all those audiences? They aren't. They are a distributor, they are a capitalist, they are an investment, they are partnering with you on this, and they're gonna share the profit. That's what they're gonna do. That's how they're set up. They're not very god people, they are venture capitalists, they are sharks on Shark King. And when you think about that that way, then you're like, oh, okay, cool. I'm partnering with these people who are gonna get my book to my bookstores, they're gonna get my books to my event if I happen to have one. They're gonna get my book, you know, on Amazon with the right metadata so it reaches people that look at my YouTube in case of Caitlin and all of that. Like it's it's more that than it is like, oh, because I got this book deal now, all this magic is gonna happen without me. The hard part's dying. Right. You can't sit back. It's the beginning, it's not the yes.

Speaker 1 35:30

If anything, if anything, writing the book was the easy part, you know.

Meghan 35:34

Yeah, writing the book is the that's why I focus on it.

Speaker 1 35:37

Yes, okay, exactly. And I think you know, that's why that marketing and publicity of how how the hell are you gonna sell this book? That is the most important part because the publisher is gonna come back to you during that time and say, okay, go do that, you know. So I think I think that

Marketing Is Not Guaranteed

Speaker 1 35:55

is what I wish authors asked about. And I think they think that's the agent's job too. It's not our job. We're here to help, we're here to advise. Um, but we are not, you know, publicists, we are not marketers at the end of the day. So, you know, that's why I love working with people who are go-getters who are like, Yeah, I have no problem. I'm gonna sell the shit out of this book.

Meghan 36:17

A lot of people, a lot of our clients take that as like a personal challenge of like, yes, here's the book. I think like it fueled Caitlin. Oh, yeah. Like if you tell, like a couple of my clients that I was like, Yeah, here's you know, 20,000 books. I have a client whose book's coming out with Hey Harrison in June. And I was like, Yeah, 20,000 books establishes your book pretty much in the market the first year. New York Times postsellers a little bit of a reach because it's curated and nobody knows how they pick. But USA Today is totally like within most people's realm that we work with, platformed authors, you know, with 100,000 followers or more, the ability to sell 20,000 books in a year. USA Today bestseller is totally within the reach for those folks. And I was like, you know, if you want to do that, and she just was like, fuck it, I'm going for all of it. Like, she's like, USA Today, I got that, but I'm gonna mobilize my people and I'm gonna do everything I can for like three years to set that up. Yeah, and you know, it was a personal challenge for her to do that, and I think I mean she wanted to, you know, cross it off her list, and that is a really powerful incentive. And I I would love for more entrepreneurs, experts, and creators to think of publishing their book that way because it's not ultimately the book that makes you money, it's all that all the money that comes from like your author platform and like growing and selling that book and the book opera opening up more opportunities, you know.

Speaker 1 37:42

Yeah, I wish all my authors sort of thought like that, you know. I think you know, for other nonfiction or fiction or children's, you know, they don't have that business mindset because they're not business people. Where you know, even though it's a women's fiction book, you still have to think of it as like this is a a business thing. You are an entrepreneur and you still need to sell it.

Meghan 38:06

Yep, it's still a product at the end of the day. I think that's you're still buying art in the store. Art is a product, right? Like my husband makes pottery. Now that's a product. He's making, you know, usable pottery. So he's making mugs and bowls and plates and planters and things like that. But it's still a product, ultimately, even though it's art, right? Even though he's creating it with his hands, literally artistry, right? Same thing as me. I'm creating art with my hands on a little keyboard, but still, it's that it's that whole idea. It's still a product at the end of the day. Exactly.

Speaker 1 38:35

Exactly.

Meghan 38:36

I love it. I love it. Okay, so last question. So, based on all the data I have, um, the entrepreneurs, experts, and creators who are listening to this want a book deal, but they need to develop their books potential and author platform before really getting going on it, before writing a proposal or even sending a query to you. So, based on that, what would be your best advice for those folks in terms of making their dreams come true?

Speaker 1 39:01

Yeah, I think you really have to, instead of selling a product, you're selling yourself. You know, you're selling, you know, whether it's talks you give, whether you have like this awesome Substack or millions of followers on Instagram or YouTube or whatever it is, you're selling the book before the book's even here, right? Yeah you're you're selling, you know, you, your brand, which is you, um, your concept, your tagline, whatever it is. You really have to, I like that you're selling three years ahead of time this this concept, this idea before it actually hits print.

Meghan 39:36

Um so you know and you're not calling it your book to be clear, you're validating the concepts, the frameworks. You're saying, like, hey, who the the thing about platform building that I think goes unsaid is that it validates your idea in a way that nothing else can, right? So, like you putting your idea out in the world and then getting feedback on it proves there's an audience, right? Like, was there an audience for entrepreneurs, experts, and creators who had a book deal for a podcast like this? I don't know. Let's see. And then, oh shit, we have 20,000 downloads in the first

Platform Building That Proves Demand

Meghan 40:10

year. Apparently, this is needed. But why don't we let's yeah, let's keep moving. But I wouldn't have known that without trying it. And same idea, right? Like I have, you know, people come to me and they're like, my framework worked for me. And I was like, okay, great. Well, does it work at scale or does it break, right? I wrote a diet book this year and I did the diet because I wanted to see where it would break because in the past where, yeah, it was awesome. Where the in the past, you know, uh about 10 years ago I wrote a diet book and I was like, I love olives, but why are olives in every single recipe in this book? Because my husband doesn't like olives. Yeah. So this isn't gonna work for him. Can we find another source of healthy fat, right? There's like all this idea of like you learn so much by building a platform, and it's it and if you want to make an impact, that is the way to do it, right? Like you that is the way to do it. It's not by writing a book that sits somewhere on a shelf that doesn't get read.

Speaker 1 41:04

Exactly. And what I love about you is you really immerse yourself in every book you write, like doing the diet. By by the end of Caitlin's book, you knew more about men and sex than most people knew. So much stuff.

Speaker 41:18

So much.

Meghan 41:19

And it was like Caitlin calls it out, and she's like, I think she says, like, I'll be a hit on golf courses. Because I was going to my golf league that whole summer, I was writing the book and being like, guess what? I learned this week about men's sexuality. And like they were, they gave us my golf league friends, they gave us like honestly, a handful of lesbians, gave us feedback on the cover.

Speaker 41:39

Because I was like, look at these covers, what do you guys think? I love that. I love that. Yes, that's what we need.

Meghan 41:46

But it does, I mean, it kind of lends to the fact that like you need a book team when you write a book, especially as an expert, a creator, an entrepreneur who is busy running a business, brought a brand.

Speaker 1 41:58

That's where we come in. We're here to make it clear for you.

Meghan 42:02

Yeah, that's where I mean, what we really deliver is leverage. Yes, do we deliver a great proposal that gets you a great agent like Danny and the book deal? Yes, 80% of the time we do that, but we're buying you leverage the whole time, right? Like you can do other things. Like Caitlin didn't have to stop her YouTube, she didn't have to stop. She launched a podcast, I think we're all she was busier than ever. Yeah, because I was helping her, and so that was really the important thing. And you could kind of do your agent thing too, because you knew we were gonna deliver the manuscript on time and we weren't gonna have any problem editorially as well with Hay House. So that was a really good thing. And then, you know, I got the show off for Hay House, so now her editor is one of my favorite people, so very fun things. There you go. There you go. Yeah, yeah. Well, Danny, thank you so so much for joining us on the podcast.

Listener Questions And Closing

Speaker 42:50

We really appreciate you.

Meghan 42:52

And yeah, for all of you listening, let me know what other questions you want from literary agents and editors. We're gonna have more people this year on the Kind of a Big Book Deal podcast from traditional publishing. So hit me up, you know, in the show notes. You can send me fan mail anytime. And until next time, cheers to your success. Thanks for tuning in to the Kind of a Big Book Deal podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you subscribe and also leave a review. Not only is this good for my ego and annoying for my enemies, but it also helps more entrepreneurs like ourselves find this podcast. Also, I'm pretty sure it's good karma. See you next time.