CINEMISSES! The Godfather Part II

In this episode of CINEMISSES!, Matt and Tug dive into the complexities of The Godfather Part II, exploring its themes of family, loyalty, and betrayal. They discuss the film's unique structure that intertwines the stories of Vito and Michael Corleone, the challenges faced by writer-director Francis Ford Coppola, and the amazing performances of Al Pacino, Robert De Niro and Diane Keaton to name a few. Matt and Tug also compare Robert Duvall's Tom Hagen to Superman (!) and consider the film's stature as a sequel that many believe surpasses the original. They also straight hate on Fredo because he is such a putz. 

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Transcript

Tug McTighe (00:00)
Hey Matthew, how are you sir? I'm good. Everyone welcome, including you Matt. Welcome to season two of Cinemisses. Who would have ever thought we'd get this far? Not me, I can tell you that. ⁓ 10 episodes in the can. 10 planned for season two. 10 already planned for season three. That's right, we got together.

Matt (00:03)
I'm great, how are you buddy?

Me neither.

Tug McTighe (00:24)
took a little bit of a break and actually worked ahead of schedule versus behind schedule and did a little bit of planning. I wouldn't say a lot, but a little bit. We've got some new ideas percolating. We're better now than we were 10 episodes ago at making this pod. And I hope that everybody likes it. You being everybody who are resisting. There are so many people that listen to this podcast that I never thought would listen in the hundreds, which is bananas, because we're just doing this.

Matt (00:51)
wow.

Tug McTighe (00:53)
us So when someone else likes it, I really appreciate it. So anyway With all that being said we're gonna jump right in with our first film of season 2 of cinemases so map when you sin amiss the godfather I Assumed rightfully so that you probably sin amiss the godfather part 2 and I was correct So we're gonna do godfather part 2 today

Matt (01:20)
Yes.

Tug McTighe (01:22)
because I think this cinemas is a bit of a tragedy because Rare is the sequel that even lives up to or some people say exceeds the original. And that's what The Godfather 2 is for a lot of people. A lot of people think this is a better film. You and I will talk about whether or not we think that's true. But definitely an interesting movie. Matt's got a little bit of an allergy cold thing here. if you hear a little, just ignore it because that makes this thing more human.

And I still have a shitty voice in my 11th episode. So anyhow, ⁓ we are going to make you an offer you can't refuse today, As we open our second season with an all time classic, The Godfather Part II, if you like mobster films, slow, methodical filmmaking, great acting, and Roman numerals, then you are sure to enjoy our discussion of this classic. I'm Tug, and this is Cinemisses. Okay, as we always do, we start with what the Cinemisser

Matt (02:11)
And Matt?

Tug McTighe (02:19)
I like how we're using cinemist and cinemis in basically any kind of grammatical form possible. So you're the cinemisser in this case. So as we always do, what do you think you know about this movie? Now, again, I would say you knew a lot about The Godfather because it's, one of the most important gangster mobster films and it just permeated the culture. But tell me what you knew about, tell me what you knew about number two.

Matt (02:26)
Absolutely.

Yes.

Okay, this will be quick. I believe it introduces a young, I would say younger than I've ever seen him in films, Robert De Niro playing a young Fido Corleone. It turns out I think he was 31 at the time that he filmed this, was in his early, early 30s.

Tug McTighe (03:00)
Wow. Yeah, when you go back and look

at it, you're like, because we're so used to him now, you go back, you're like, Jesus, this was a long time ago.

Matt (03:05)
Right.

Yeah. Two, it finally gives us the death of Fredo, who sucks. So I'm not exactly sure why or how, but I'm pretty sure he gets his just desserts.

Tug McTighe (03:15)
There's

gonna be a red thread in this podcast and you started it in episode one with the Godfather. You're like, Fredo sucks. Fredo straight sucks and I'm tired of him already. And that was about 42 minutes into the first movie.

Matt (03:24)
Yeah, he's the worst

Right, so I've been waiting for this. I've been waiting for him to get his come up in some oil and third, the third and last, as you already said, it's widely believed to be as good or even better than the original. So to sum up, I didn't know a whole lot about it.

Tug McTighe (03:33)
You

good, that makes it more exciting I would say. So let me hit you with the log line. The continuing saga of the Corleone family tells the story of young Vito Corleone growing up in Sicily in the 1910s New York and follows Michael in the 50s as he attempts to expand the family business into Las Vegas, Hollywood and Cuba. That is a short description of what I believe is about a three and a half hour run time. And as I mentioned in the open,

Matt (03:48)
Mm-hmm.

Tug McTighe (04:12)
They don't make movies like this anymore that are slow. There's quiet and silence, not rock them, them. You know, at one time they called it MTV fast cutting. It's a lot of just letting it play out in a, in a dramatic way. And so it is long and there's a lot, a lot of stuff going on.

I won't go all the way through his filmography, but it is long and storied and really peppered with gigantic successes and abject failures. More so I think than, than a lot of these director auteurs, you know, the Godfather in 72, the conversation in 74 and the Godfather part two in 74. So that was a great year for him. Everybody loves the conversation. That might be something we should watch on this pod at some point really.

famous Scorsese movie that I have not seen, Scorsese Coppola movie that I have not seen, that everybody talks about. yeah, 74 was a big year.

Matt (05:12)
Yes, he, he started a five-year extramarital affair with a PA during the filming of this movie that almost destroyed his marriage. And it ended, yeah, five years later. ⁓ That PA was Melissa Matheson, who was the screenwriter for ET, the extraterrestrial. Right.

Tug McTighe (05:29)
went on to become famous in her own right. Yeah.

So I didn't know that. So again, we're learning something new in season two. Apocalypse Now in 79. I have seen it several times. It's another gigantic mess that has grown in stature over time. I think people liked it, but it was a mess and difficult to watch. Francis Ford Coppola.

Matt (05:39)
Right.

Right.

Tug McTighe (05:49)
Like all these movies just about killing. So like, like the Godfather just about killed him. It's like, I never want to direct again. Then he makes the Godfather two. It's like, it just about killed me. Then he makes Apocalypse Now. It's like, just about killed me. So, you know, it's, it's that sort of, guess it's that sort of, again, that auteur that like I'm driven. I have a vision. I have to see it done.

Matt (05:52)
Right.

But

in the case of ⁓ Godfather Part II, I don't think he wanted to direct it at all. ⁓ And the studio said, no, you have to, we're not going to make it. And he said, OK, I'll do it. Right.

Tug McTighe (06:18)
Right, he's the linchpin, right?

He then ⁓ made Outsiders and Rumblefish in 83, which is Prince Friar Coppola in his S.E. Hinton era. ⁓ S.E. Hinton is a writer who went by S.E. Hinton. Her name is Susan Elouise Hinton. She was a writer who back in the 60s had to use her initials because no one would take her seriously as a writer. ⁓ She kept getting, what am I trying to say, rejected, rejected.

that she makes Esee Hinton and she writes two or three of the most important comic book age books of all time. The Outsiders is a great movie that Coppola made and is also quite possibly the most incredible cast of one movie in the history of filmmaking. That movie has Rob Lowe, Patrick Swayze, Tom Cruise, C. Thomas Howell, Ralph Macchio, Emilio Estevez, it's...

Insane. Matt Dillon, ⁓ Leif Garrett, hot off of his music career and the very young Diane Lane. So I mean, just guys, but a bananas cast. Really worth watching the movie. Made the Cotton Club, think Gregory Hines, our tap dancing friend was in that. And then in 86, he made Peggy Sue Got Married. Again, like a weird, pretty fun time travel film starring Kathleen Turner and Nicolas Cage.

Matt (07:15)
Matt Dylan was in there.

Tug McTighe (07:39)
which doesn't feel like a Coppola movie.

Matt (07:42)
Right, but it kind of makes sense knowing a couple things, because I went down a little rabbit hole for this. ⁓ One, that Nick Cage is his nephew, which I knew, and Talia Shire is Frances Ford Coppola's sister, which I didn't know.

Tug McTighe (07:53)
I can't believe we get that.

We never came to that in Godfather.

Matt (07:57)
So in the early eighties, he was riding high after apocalypse now. he, and I think there was some hubris. I think he thought he was just, he was the shit. And then he made, one from the heart and it just bombed. And like so many of these that we talk about, you know, 40 years later,

Tug McTighe (08:07)
The cat's pajamas.

Matt (08:19)
it's being reevaluated and they're saying, no, this is a work of genius and he was ahead of his time. But at the time, ⁓ he was really hurting for money. So ⁓ I think he was just cranking out movies to try and make money there. Yeah, Nick Cage said he did not want the role, but his uncle just bugged him. Francis Ford Coppola asked him, he said he asked me like five or six times and I said, I would do it if I could play it way over the top. And I thought, when does Nick Cage not play anything?

Tug McTighe (08:30)
Let me make a movie. I need I need to make a hit. Yeah

Yeah, right.

Matt (08:48)
way over the top.

Tug McTighe (08:49)
That's the Nicolas Cage default setting is over the top. It's off. He has two settings, off, over the top.

Matt (08:52)
Exactly.

He said he took inspiration for a line that his character delivered after seeing John Stamos in a commercial for Neat, which was like a Nair type ladies hair removal. I guess men could use it too, but it's like cream you put on your legs and it dissolves your leg hair. ⁓ So John Stamos, who could not have been very old at the time, but old enough to influence Nick Cage and give him a little inspirado. Unbelievable.

Tug McTighe (09:06)
You can get it. I guess it's.

Inspiration is everywhere.

He made Tucker the Man in His Dream with Jeff Bridges, The Godfather Part Three, which we will not cover on this podcast. I'm not gonna subject you to that. Bram Sokors Dracula, which we will not cover on this podcast. To this day, the only film I have ever walked out of the theater on. I hated it so much, I walked out, which makes me kinda wanna go back and revisit it.

Matt (09:37)
Wow.

Tug McTighe (09:45)
Because I bet it's not as bad as I think it was. Yeah, it was giant. It was a big,

Matt (09:47)
It was a huge deal when it came out. remember Gary Oldman playing a,

Oldman's playing a really kind of weird take on the character, Keanu Reeves with his terrible British accent. Poor guy. Yeah, it was, ⁓ it might not be as bad or it might just be exactly as bad as you remember, but he was kind of all over the place.

Tug McTighe (09:57)
with owner writer.

Right. yeah, well, yeah, then he made Jack with Robin Williams.

The Jack that he starts old and no, he's his Robin Williams age, but he's like a five year old. Yeah, right. And then the last one we'll talk about is the Rainmaker with Matt Damon, Matt Arby's Damon and Claire Danes. I like that movie because I hate the insurance industry. And that movie is a young lawyer takes down the

Matt (10:16)
Yeah, he's got progeria or something where he looks much older than I didn't even know if that's a real thing.

you

Tug McTighe (10:33)
the insurance industry, the insurance company that won't pay people's insurance, pay their medical bills.

Matt (10:38)
Right.

So after all these movies, my takeaway is that once he achieved goat status, which was pretty early on, I mean, he was just riding riding high by 1979. He just made whatever movies he wanted to for whatever reason he could. come up with like he made Jack, which I thought was excrucible because he wanted to work with Robin Williams and Robin Williams read the script and said, I will only do this if Francis Ford Coppola directed it. So they did it. Yeah.

Tug McTighe (11:06)
So he did, yeah.

Yeah, that's part of joy of being those guys, right? look like Lucas after Star Wars, he hated the process of making Star Wars so much. And Star Wars was such a giant hit that he financed every other movie he ever made after Star Wars. He wrote the check, which again, causes problems in some ways, because nobody can tell you what to do, but I understand.

Matt (11:25)
Right. Which he could do. Sure.

Tug McTighe (11:34)
Released December 18th, 74. Part two was shot in California, the Dominican Republic, Dublin, Cuba, and various locations in Italy between October 73 and June 74. Running time, three hours, 22 minutes. Written again by Mario Puzo, who wrote The First Godfather with Francis Ford Coppola. They wrote it together and Francis Ford Coppola directed it. ⁓ And again, like you said, ⁓ apparently did not want to do this.

Matt (11:59)
Right, he wanted Scorsese for it. And the studio said, no, but can you imagine? Like that wouldn't have been bad. That would have been pretty good. Right.

Tug McTighe (12:04)
Right? No, that would have been great, right? ⁓

Nominated for 11 Academy Awards, became the first sequel to win Best Picture, which is an interesting, ⁓ if dubious achievement. Six Oscar wins included director for Coppola, supporting actor for De Niro, best adapted screenplay for Coppola and Puzo. Yeah, because the book by Mario Puzo, The Godfather, covers all these events. Covers Young Vito, covers Michael, covers The Dawn.

Matt (12:33)
And this

was the first time, the only time, as far as I know, in Oscar history that an Oscar was awarded for two different actors playing the same character. So De Niro got best of touring and ⁓ Brando obviously got best actor.

Tug McTighe (12:43)
Hmm, I like

This is what a little fucking break does for you. Look at what you're bringing to the table. I'm down. That made me happy. You are bringing it. Shot for, can you imagine, 13 million budget. That is basically a dollar now. 48 million in the US, 93 million worldwide. So again, 100 million was a lot of money in those days. It's considered to be one of the greatest films of all time. and a rare example of a sequel that

Matt (12:52)
Right? That's right. I'm leading with the heat.

Ha ha ha!

Tug McTighe (13:17)
is at least as good as its predecessor, maybe better. And in 97, AFI made it the 32nd greatest film in American history. Matt, what about the tomato meter though? That's the all important tomato meter.

Matt (13:30)
Tomato meter, critics loved it 96%, popcorn meter surprisingly. I say surprisingly because this feels like something critics would love, but ⁓ popcorn meters at 97, with 250,000 plus ratings, which is crazy. So here's a quick question for you. Would you consider ⁓ The Empire Strikes Back a sequel, or is it just a continuation of a story?

Tug McTighe (13:43)
So big movie. Lay it on me.

Well, it's an excellent question. It's both. ⁓ It's definitely a sequel because it's the second Star Wars movie. But yeah, it's a continuation because it picks up.

Matt (14:03)
but this is a continuation too. So I guess it's the same. Okay, so there's a movie I would say outshines its predecessor.

Tug McTighe (14:05)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Empire? Yeah, Empire is

widely regarded as, if not the best Star Wars film. It's up there. And I love it. It's my favorite. You know why? All the good shit happens in it. All the good shit, right? So ⁓ I will buzz through this. This is a gigantic cast, but there's a couple we need to really talk about. ⁓ Pacino is Michael again, Robert Duvall. Everybody reprises their roles. Robert Duvall, Diane Keaton.

Matt (14:19)
was my favorite.

Tug McTighe (14:38)
And then we get De Niro, course, as young Vito. Apparently he did not know Italian and learned Italian for this movie.

Matt (14:47)
He had eight words that were in English in this movie. Everything else was spoken in Sicilian, which he learned over the course of four months. dedication to the craft.

Tug McTighe (14:51)
Is that right?

Wow, that's fantastic. ⁓

Fredo, your favorite, John Casale, Talia Shire, Lee Strasberg as Hyman Roth. Now Lee Strasberg is important because he's the founder of the actor studio, considered to be the father of method acting. And he was teacher to many, many, many method actors, including De Niro, Pacino, Alec Baldwin, Sally Field, and your favorite actress, Lady Gaga. ⁓ There's a lot of that guys in this movie.

Matt (15:19)
I guess.

Tug McTighe (15:24)
are in not only mob films but other films JD sorry GD Sprave Lynn and Senator Pat Geary Bruno Kirby shows up as young Peter Clemenza

Matt (15:35)
I couldn't believe that that baby face, I was like, what is he 12 years old in this movie? I'd never seen it.

Tug McTighe (15:39)
my God, isn't he great when he shows up?

Hey, these, hey, hide these guns for me, ya? Frank Severo as Janko Abandondando. He's another that guy. We're gonna talk about him later. ⁓ Then you've got Dominic Chienese as Johnny Ola, better known as Junior Soprano in The Sopranos. You've got ⁓ Teeny Bopper Troy Donahue as Merle Johnson. You've got Abe Bogota again.

Matt (15:44)
Yeah, you speak Italian? Here's a bunch of guns. Put them in your bathtub.

Yes.

Tug McTighe (16:08)
You've got Harry Dean Stanton as an FBI agent. Harry Dean Stanton looks 65 years old in 72 also.

Matt (16:15)
when he was in grade school, I guarantee he looked like a grown up.

Tug McTighe (16:17)
quest.

⁓ Danny Aiello shows up. Thank God I told you you didn't notice.

Matt (16:24)
No, I didn't. I'm glad you did.

Tug McTighe (16:26)
Yep, he tries to, he's the guy that is garroting, is choking Frankie P out. ⁓ Roger Corman, famous director filmmaker who gave Francis Ford Coppola his start, Cameron his start, gave a lot of people their start. And then famous manager of the LA Dodgers, Tommy Lasorda is a military officer at one point. Yeah, I did too. But that was the Wikipedia taught us that.

Matt (16:51)
I missed that, but I'm sure I would have seen him if I'd... Okay.

Tug McTighe (16:56)
But so I mean, big cast, a lot of, and again, such a giant cast. Some of these people are in what, two scenes, one scene, right.

Matt (16:59)
Mm-hmm.

Right, but

I would say ⁓ ordinarily we'd talk about other people that were considered for the role. mean, in this, it wasn't anybody. mean, everybody was coming back for this one. The only difference is, the only thing I would say is ⁓ De Niro apparently auditioned for the role of Sonny in the first movie and did not get Yeah.

Tug McTighe (17:17)
That's right, that's right.

That is correct, I didn't know that, yeah.

So, all right, so now we've got the nuts and bolts out of the way, let's talk about this movie. There's a lot to talk about. Okay, first of all, this is a unique structure that when we were sort of getting this outline of this show together, we were kind of cutting back and forth like you have to make sure you're managing it in the...

runtime of the movie because it goes back and forth in time so much that it's a little bit hard. So we're going to follow, we're not going to, like, if you go out there look up plot of Godfather 2, you'll see a lot of people have like, here's the Vito story and here's the Michael story. We're not going to do it here because we're going the way that was edited together. Cause I think that's important because there's a lot of transitions and overlaps that are sort of something that happened to Vito.

We're sort of then seeing Michael's reaction to what he's dealing with and we're seeing how they're the same and how they're different. So I think there's a lot of important cutting back and forth. So opens up Vito in 1901 in Corleone, Sicily, Vito Andolini. We learn about his name later. Attends a funeral of his father who was killed for insulting a local mafia boss, Don Ciccio. Then Vito's brother's murdered, Vito's mother pleads with the Don to spare young Vito and she pulls a knife on him. They shoot her dead.

And then Vito escapes with help of the rest of the village smuggling onto a ship to America at Ellis Island. He doesn't know any English. They say, where are you from? Corleone. And then they name him Corleone. I'll say Corleone from now on. Also of interest, he has smallpox at that point and is quarantined for three months. And then there's our first transition where they show young Vito.

And then a crossfade, right? That's where we have two pieces of film that one starts to disappear while the other appears. And now we see Michael in 1958, who is now, as you'll all recall, he's moved all the family business out ⁓ to Las Vegas after Mo Green accidentally fell on that bullet through his eye. And so now he's at his Lake Tahoe estate and he's hosting a giant party.

for his son's first communion. Again, always the juxtaposition of business, crime, respect, meetings with some religion. And I will say that over and over and over again, because it's really important to cope.

Matt (20:02)
I really liked the way they set this up. Cause it directly parallels the open, the wedding scene was a Connie's wedding from the Godfather. Right. So it established us from the start. Now Michael has taken his father's place. He is the Godfather. People are coming to him during this first communion, which I thought was hilarious. You get a Senator.

Tug McTighe (20:11)
Connie's wedding in part one.

Matt (20:26)
It's like, well, I'm glad I could be here today to celebrate this boy's first communion. Here's a check that I got. thought that was like, there's obviously something going on here. So anyway, that's just from the beginning. We're like, we understand that now he is the Godfather. He has taken his father's place.

Tug McTighe (20:26)
Yeah, right.

That's right. That's right.

Right,

And ⁓ Michael meets with that Senator Pat Geary ⁓ and Pat Geary wants a bunch of a bribe to give Michael the gaming license. Michael's like, hey, my offer is nothing. I'm not going to give you anything. You're not going to extort me. And this GD Spradlin is a real that guy of this era. He was in a lot of stuff. He's got a good face, a good Southern accent. He's a total douche.

Just mispronouncing Corleone. Like, I don't like your kind of people. I don't want you out here with your greasy, like all the tropes. He lays it on pretty thick.

Matt (21:16)
Yeah. Yeah, there was a ton that happened in this scene and it was a long scene. We met Frankie P who's drunk. I laughed and laughed when he was trying to get the band to play the Tarantella and he's like, ba-bum, ba-bum, ba-bum and they turned it into a Pop Goes the Weasel and everybody laughed at him. You know, and Michael's shaming Connie for being a bad mother because she's been running around with some new guy, Murl. And basically her mom says the same thing, like, go see your children.

Tug McTighe (21:20)
Yes.

Hop goes the weasel, right?

Right?

Matt (21:45)
you've been gone for weeks and you haven't seen your children. And he says the same thing. He's like, don't, you know, if you marry this man, you'll disappoint me. And she knows, I don't think Murrow gets quite what that means, but she knows what it means. That whole thing is crazy. Fredo's wife.

Tug McTighe (21:52)
Right.

Well, and then

again, your favorite person has a terrible wife. Fredo's bleach blonde, ditzy, you know. She's all...

Matt (22:03)
yeah.

Who also doesn't

respect him? I mean, she humiliates him in front of everyone. That's all he needs.

Tug McTighe (22:11)
No, no, that's right. That's right. So

that night, gunmen tried to assassinate Michael in his bedroom, just riddling the house with machine gun fire. He survives, becomes increasingly paranoid. He figures there's a traitor in the family, begins in quiet investigation. He suspects Frank P, Frankie P, because Frankie P is having trouble back in New York.

that Michael says, look, I've got, I've got, he's, I'm having trouble with the Rosato brothers. And this is Matt where it starts to get a little, I would say busy even here. Frankie Pantanginelli is having trouble with the Rosato brothers who were back to New York by Hyman Roth. Michael has business with Hyman Roth. doesn't want disturbed. So Michael tells Frankie, settle this Rosato brothers business peacefully. Frankie says the old Don would never do it this way. You're

turning against the family. So there's just a lot of moving parts here. There's a lot of pieces on the chessboard, even in this first scene.

Matt (23:14)
Yeah, it was confusing. were a lot of people and lot of agendas going on at once.

Tug McTighe (23:16)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There's another thing. We'll talk about this here probably throughout, but one of my beefs with the modern Superman movies and they're even doing it in the trailer for this new James, this new James gun is it's always like, we have to take Superman down because he's all powerful. And what if he decided to take over? He's never once since 1933.

Matt (23:31)
So here we go.

Yeah.

Tug McTighe (23:45)
He's never once in any storyline, He's never once tried to take over. He is a good, a force for good. So.

Matt (23:57)
Mm-hmm. I have no idea where you're going. I can't wait. I can't wait.

Tug McTighe (23:59)
I know right

So Tom Hagan Has never done anything Against Michael or the family and now Michaels like he says you're a true brother He tells him Fredo has a good heart but Fredo's weak and he's stupid and this is life and death which is Michaels words K asked Michael again about becoming legitimate. He promised to be five years now at seven a lot of Domino's getting set up in a line

And the reason I bring up Superman and Tom is because ⁓ later on he's gonna doubt Tom. And I'm like, has fixed everything for Michael. Anyway, so I digress.

Matt (24:42)
Yeah, at this point you get the sense that Michael doesn't have... When Frankie P says your father wouldn't have handled it this way, he's kind of right. I mean, he's drunk and desperate and a little loony, but he's not wrong. And you can tell Michael doesn't have the ⁓ same kind of gravitas, the same control, the temperament, all that stuff. ⁓

Tug McTighe (24:45)
Yeah, yeah ⁓

But yeah.

Control, temperament, go ahead.

And by the way, you're gonna see that in these flashbacks.

Matt (25:09)
Right, okay, so perfect. I didn't want to, I know we'll get to that, but I didn't understand why, why do we have these flashbacks? And now I do having seen it twice.

Tug McTighe (25:18)
Right,

now I would be remiss if I didn't mention that when he brings Tom in ⁓ to tell him, I love you, you're my brother, I need you to become the acting boss so I can go unwind this mystery, that they're drinking Cavassier and the SNL's The Ladies Man, Cavassier was his favorite drink, Tim Meadows. So I just wanna give a shout out to The Ladies Man drinking some.

Matt (25:40)
Okay, Tim, that is... Yes.

I saw that,

Tug McTighe (25:47)
Come on, see.

Matt (25:48)
Cavafy, I saw that and thought the exact same thing. So we're either both geniuses or we're both idiots, but that was awesome. Right.

Tug McTighe (25:54)
Yep, yep, yep, somewhere in the middle, I'm sure. Two things can be true at the same time.

So then we flash back to Vito growing up in New York's Little Italy. He lives modestly with his wife. Now it's De Niro. ⁓ He has his young kids. We got Sonny and Fredo already, right? Santino and Fredo. ⁓ Then there's again a great scene where he goes to the local performance of the opera.

Again, indicative of the kind of film making we get where for a long time, they're just watching the show and Jankos says, that's my love, she's my girlfriend, she's in the play and then nothing is happening for a while. And then the Don, Don Finucci gets up and someone sits down in front and he turns around and Don Finucci is the neighborhood gangster and they're like, oh, sorry, Don, I didn't know it was you. So he walks out.

⁓ Anyway, now this Genko, who will become ⁓ Vito's conciliary later, is played by a fellow by name of Frank Severo. Matt, would you like to talk about Frank Severo for a moment?

Matt (27:07)
I do it so much. ⁓ He played Frankie Carbon in Goodfellas. He wasn't like Frankie two times or something, was he?

Tug McTighe (27:15)
No, he was, but he's the guy in Goodfellas with the glorious head of hair.

Matt (27:21)
Yes, amazing. So he was also in The Wedding Singer. So I'm watching this and I'm like, why does that guy look familiar? He was his Adam Sandler's character. That's like probably my favorite Adam Sandler movie and I don't love Adam Sandler. ⁓ I liked that a lot. I thought it was sweet. But his sister's husband is this super Italian guy played by Frank Severo and he's got this head of hair that's like a helmet. It's amazing. ⁓ So a little story about him that I thought was funny.

Tug McTighe (27:24)
Yes.

Great movie,

His hair is, it's like a helmet. Yeah.

Matt (27:49)
At one point, the Simpsons introduced a character named Louis, who was Fat Tony's, Fat Tony's the mafia guy in the show, everybody knows that. Louis was like his number two guy, and Severo lived next to some Simpsons writers, and so he sued the Simpsons, saying that this character was based on him, and he lost. The judgment said, this is clearly just kind of a hodgepodge of stock mob characters.

Tug McTighe (28:06)
He's like, it's clearly me. Yeah.

Right.

Love it.

Matt (28:18)
So they're like, that's who you are. Frank Saverio, you're a stock mob character in real life.

Tug McTighe (28:20)
Right. You're a stock monster. So,

⁓ but yeah, was, it was great when I saw him cause I had forgotten it was him and he was again young as well. Holy mackerel. So Vito loses his job at the grocery store. Jenko's dad owns it because Don Finucci needs a job for his nephew. So yeah, Vito gets the right heave ho again shows real class, maybe a bit too much pride when Jenko's father is trying to give him a big box of groceries.

Matt (28:39)
He just bows out.

Tug McTighe (28:49)
Now I'm good. Now Vito begins his slow descent into the world of organized crime. He befriends while he's more befriended by Clemenza when he tells him, Hey, you, you speak Italian? Hi, D. So I'll get them later. This is when Bruno Kirby shows up again. Great, great bit of business. He says, Hey, did you, you still have my bag? And he goes, yeah. Did you look inside? And Vito says, I don't, I don't look at stuff that doesn't concern me. And he goes, Bruno Kirby's like, Hey,

Clemenza, hey, maybe your wife would like a nice rug. He goes, well, of course she would, but who has money for a rug? He goes, well, go to my friends. He said we can have a rug. And then he just breaks in, in the middle of the day.

Matt (29:29)
makes it at somebody's house. They steal the rug and just walk it down the street.

Tug McTighe (29:32)
That's

right. So there's just a lot of business. And again, this juxtaposition idea where it's funny because they're just doing this in broad daylight. And then a cop comes to knock at the door and Clemenza actually has a gun on him and then he leaves. So you're seeing this. This was funny. now it's not so funny. And again, continually reminding us that these people that we're falling in love with are really bad people.

Matt (29:59)
Yeah, they're not good people. ⁓ This was, I think I said this, this is his youngest as I've seen De Niro in a movie and I thought he was really good, ⁓ handsome guy. And ⁓ I thought he was great. ⁓ I know he'd been already working as an actor for like seven or eight years since his early twenties ⁓ and in a lot of comedies, which kind of surprised me, but then I think he's done some, he did some comedies later on. So.

Tug McTighe (30:00)
Right. Right.

Yeah, what's the comedy? What's

the one with, with

Matt (30:29)
Billy Crystal.

Tug McTighe (30:31)
Well, no, he did get a handful of those, the ones about the psych, he was a mob boss and had the drink and then he had the Ben Stiller movies. So yeah, he's done a lot and it's.

Matt (30:35)
Yeah, yeah.

⁓ I

always think of him in this default role as gangster guy, right? Because he does it so well and he's been doing it for so long. But it was neat to see him before he was De Niro being De Niro. Yeah. Exactly.

Tug McTighe (30:45)
Yeah, of course. Right. Of course.

before he was De Niro, the brand, yeah.

So then we're, so that's in New York, we cut, now we're, we cut back to 58 where Michael is now investigating the assassination attempt. He travels to Miami to meet Hyman Roth. He's on a train? Shit, man, that's a long ass train ride. ⁓

Matt (31:14)
Yeah, they

show, I did like how they cut back from the flashback from De Niro, took the train, which is obviously a modern train, it's on the tracks, it's coming at you. thought that was a clever way to come back to the present.

Tug McTighe (31:18)
of the train. Yep. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

⁓ Hyman Roth. I thought this was funny just cause you and I are friends where Michael comes in and Hyman Roth's watching USC football and he's like, do you like sports? And Michael's like, not really. I go, well, that's a little bit like me and Matt. So, it's always, always together in the, always coming together. ⁓ they discuss this lucrative business deal that they're working on in Cuba.

Matt (31:40)
A bit.

Tug McTighe (31:51)
Michael lies, ⁓ took time and and says I'd not hey there was an attempt or Mike Hyman notes right at that point I don't suspect you I think it was Frankie Pantangeli ⁓ Sorry Pantangeli, ⁓ because he Michael refused ⁓ Frank's request to murder the Rosato brothers who are Ross men ⁓ So again, there's a lot of talk here.

He has his shirt off a lot. Again, the method acting, guess he was hot. ⁓ Won't be the last time he has his shirt off.

we sorry I forgot we meet Hyman's wife Who he calls honey bunny and I can't help but think that's where Tarantino lifted honey bunny from Pulp Fiction Has to be yeah has to be so So then while it took Michael approximately 271 hours to get

Matt (32:38)
Oh, I think you're 100 % correct, gotta be.

Tug McTighe (32:48)
from Lake Tahoe to Miami on the train. He's somehow back in New York in the next scene, which a little, there's some nitpicky shit for me about that kind of a transition, but he's back in New York. He's meeting with Frankie P. He blows up on Frank, tells Frank to settle the business with the Rosados. He also then tells Frank he knows Roth ordered the hit. So he told Roth, Frankie ordered the hit. He tells Frank Roth ordered the hit. We're not quite sure who the fuck.

Word of the hit until much later. ⁓ I thought it was interesting. Frankie is living in the Don's old home. Michael's old childhood home. was first was Clemenza and then it was Frankie. Again, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. ⁓ So there's just a lot, again, a lot of.

complex storylines here.

Matt (33:37)
Yeah, and I felt stupid for not knowing what was going on, the more, you know, after a second watch, I thought, man, I don't think I could have figured this out anyway. At this point, I don't know if Michael's lying or if he's playing them against each other or if he's trying to get information or what's going on.

Tug McTighe (33:46)
Right, right.

Yeah, my take on it is, because Michael, I guess Michael is our proxy. He's the character we're supposed to see this story through. And as I'm saying this, I'm going to contradict myself. You want to believe he's doing it. You want to believe that Michael is in charge. But we've already seen that the cracks are beginning to show in his power base.

Frankie is talking to him in a way that no one would ever talk to the Don in the old days, right? And Michael's trying to, and Mo Green even, remember he said, you don't have that kind of muscle anymore. You're getting pushed out of New York. So you're just wondering, maybe Michael knows what the fuck he's doing. Maybe he doesn't know. And I think maybe that's the point. So then right after, I thought this was a great edit.

so he's telling Frank, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. And then we'll be able to find out, ⁓ who the trader in my family is. We cut to Fredo who's in bed. Okay. I think we know, ⁓ he gets that call from phone call from Johnny Ola and says, I don't know you. can't talk to you. Johnny says we need help solving this risotto brothers. Fredo's like, don't call me again. Tells his wife it's a, ⁓ tells his wife it's a wrong number. And then this is when.

Matt (35:08)
Wrong number. But he's still getting

pushed around. I mean, by everybody. He's just the worst.

Tug McTighe (35:11)
Yeah, by everybody. Yeah. And this is when we know

that Fredo has made the bad decisions and he's going against the family. So now Frankie goes to meet the risottos. He reaches out. They're going to make peace. This is when Danny Aiello comes up behind him and then further complicating things, Matt says, Michael Corleone. says, hello.

Matt (35:34)
Right.

Tug McTighe (35:34)
Right? So everybody is double crossing and triple crossing everybody here. and there's a shootout in the suite in the suite shoot out in the street. ⁓ it's a sweet shootout in the street. I can't believe I said it. won't try again. Willie Chi Chi, teach he gets shot. now there's true unrest in the family cause they didn't get to finish the job on Frankie. Cause a cop came into the bar, just, just accidentally came into the bar. Why the lights off?

Matt (36:00)
Right. ⁓

Tug McTighe (36:03)
He says to the guy, then so, So Frankie P is not dead. His murderer attempted murderer says Michael Corleone sent me. Cheech gets shot. So now they think Michael ordered the hits.

Matt (36:04)
Great, I'm

But here's the thing, if he actually, if they'd succeeded and actually killed him, then he, nobody would have been around to tell anybody that Michael orchestrated the hit. So it's probably good for them that he survived to go out and say, Hey, Michael did this, even though he did.

Tug McTighe (36:29)
Correct. Correct.

Correct.

Yes, it did.

That's correct. So again, Young Danny Aiello. How about that?

Matt (36:42)
Yes, if you hadn't mentioned it. And then of course once you see him, you're like, yep, that's him. right.

Tug McTighe (36:46)
Years later,

he'd run a pizza place in Brooklyn. That's exactly right. ⁓ So then, ⁓ boy. So speaking of Tom, sorry, speaking of Superman.

Matt (36:49)
That's right. And they would throw a garbage can through his window.

Tug McTighe (37:01)
So Tom manipulates Senator Geary, who wouldn't give the Corleone's the gaming license, by having him wake up in a brothel with a dead prostitute. A badly bloodied prostitutes body. Geary can't remember. Michael now gains control over the Senator. Tom says, you're very lucky. My brother Fredo operates this place.

We are again reminded that these characters we're rooting for are vile, awful, terrible murdering jerks. He is the best.

Matt (37:33)
and he's still,

I think he gives them a line like, she's a prostitute, she doesn't have any family, she's not even a real person, none of this matters. It's like she never existed.

Tug McTighe (37:41)
It'll be like she never existed, right? Which is

wow. You're like, wow, tough. Jeez. He says all that's left is our friendship. Meanwhile, Kay can't even leave the compound to go get groceries. Kay's pregnant, by the way. She can't even leave. They're like, no, it's a yeah, a while. Yeah. A little shakily.

Matt (37:46)
like, Tom, I thought you were better than that. But he's not.

I have no idea at this point. How long has Michael been gone?

Yeah, the passage of time is,

Tug McTighe (38:09)
told here. ⁓

Matt (38:09)
yeah, it's just hard to tell.

Tug McTighe (38:12)
But yeah, she's miserable. ⁓ Everybody's miserable, frankly. ⁓ Then so Michael goes down to Havana for Hyman Ross birthday and finalize the deal with the Cuban government. There's a big meeting like this is when Cuba was still open. And it was going to be a sort of destination paradise, right? A hospitality vacation.

and all these people wanted a piece of Cuba. they're trying to make these deals. They're concerned about the rebels, which are the Fidel Castro led communist does. They're assured everything's under control. At Hyman's birthday, Ross birthday party, he pledges that when he dies, control of his businesses will go to Michael. He sort of divvies it up. And then he and Michael get a little shaky here. Cause Michael saw out in the street, he saw a suicide bomber who

Rather than being taken, know blew himself up and killed a couple of cops They have a minor argument here And Roth is owed money and Michael's got a so Michael doesn't know what he wants to do here. He's he's torn

Matt (39:15)
Okay, explain to me, I thought Cuba, this whole part of the story was overly complicated. ⁓ Did this need to be in the story? Did he need to go to Cuba? Did he, you know, it's like, I'm gonna find out who tried to kill my family, but I'm also gonna work a little business into it. ⁓ why can't I do both?

Tug McTighe (39:38)
So this is, mean, I think it's a fine question. And I do think, and we're gonna get to it later because there's a question you asked me later on about this being kind of two movies. And by kind of, I mean two movies. We'll talk about that in a minute. But I mean, the answer is no. They could have had.

It could have been a business deal with Hyman Roth or Matt Lohr or Tug or whomever. They're all trying to get on the upper hand of each other. Again, to bring it back to Star Wars, right? Everybody's a Sith Lord here trying to murder their apprentice and bring a new person in. ⁓

Matt (40:10)
Right.

Tug McTighe (40:21)
Aside from it being that time in the century, that 58, 59, it could have been simplified. I agree with you. Because all it really does, right? So again, it makes the movie another hour. So Fredo comes down with the 2 million that was in question that Hyman Ross said, he says, I'm going to take it again. has his shirt off in the scene. I'm going to take a nap.

Matt (40:34)
Makes the movie longer.

Right.

Tug McTighe (40:50)
If when I wake up there's two million dollars on the table, I know I'll have a partner if there isn't I know I don't So then he brings the money ⁓ Fredo's guilt is palpable here

Even from when the moment he sees Michael, Michael says, let's go out tonight, spend some time together, just me and you. And then they go out and they have a couple of drinks and Fredo says something like, God, why didn't we do this before? They're like, before what dummy? We know it was you, you moron. Yeah, right. So he tells, so again, Michael's now Michael is definitely playing Fredo because Fredo is like a fiddle.

that everybody plays. He tells Fredo that Michael will be assassinated the next evening by Roth. He says it was Roth all along. He doesn't yet know it's Fredo, though. Michael yells at Hyman and says,

Did you order the hit on me, on Frankie and all the whole thing? And Rob tells a story about Mo Green. says, hey, I used to know this kid. grew up with him in the streets of New York, toughest guy I ever knew. He had a vision. He went out to the middle of Las Vegas and he built a city for GIs to stop by on their way out of the country. And he goes, that kid's name was Mo Green. The most important city in the West. There's not a statue, there's not a plaque.

And he said, when he turned up dead, I let it go. my interpretation is Hyman knows that Michael killed Mo Green. I believe that a hundred percent. And he's saying, look, I let this, I let it go. didn't ask you, what are the hit? Cause in this business, sometimes you wind up dead. Know what? That's right. He says, this is the business we chosen. So again, the whole thing, whole thing is a little bit like, so now I'm really doing it.

Matt (42:18)
Right. And that was he's saying I right.

This is the business we're in, right?

Tug McTighe (42:39)
Little bit like Dune and the Betty Jesorette. Plans within plans within plans and schemes, right? ⁓ So again, like I love your note to me. Yeah, I still don't know who's behind it, but maybe that's okay. So then, so Pat Geary shows up to Cuba. Apparently, over the murdered prostitute, because now they're at a sex club in Cuba, he's fine.

Matt (42:42)
Of course it is. That's right.

gonna roll with it.

Right, he seems to have gotten over, he's gotten over, his libido is...

He's like, got my eye on a redhead. Dude, just, like, did you forget that you woke up next to a dead prostitute? Apparently not.

Tug McTighe (43:07)
and he's

Right? God bless, it's vile.

And Michael,

when Michael and Fredo were out, Johnny Ola came up and said, Fredo, you, this is Johnny Ola. he goes, no, I don't know him. Good to meet you. Then when they go out, Pat Geary says, Fredo, do you find these places? He goes, Johnny Ola took me here a couple of times. He knows all the stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, and this scene is unbelievable by.

Pacino, because they put the camera on him and he, he maybe suspected Fredo, but now he knows that it was Fredo working with, working with Roth to murder him and his face. It's unbelievable. I mean, really, really beautiful, really powerful. yeah, there's a lot, again, a lot, a lot going on here. Michael, then his bodyguard goes and kills Johnny Ola the next morning.

Matt (43:49)
I timed it.

Yeah, it's 15 seconds of his face. Yeah, it was pretty amazing.

Tug McTighe (44:07)
He tries to murder Roth, but the doctors are there because Roth his health is failing this whole time And so he can't get to Roth to murder him They're taking him to hospital So he falls into the hospital to finish off Roth the nurses and the doctors are all boozing because it's a it's New Year's Eve and As he's putting the pillow on and the policia murder him he shot dead and then that's the famous scene of as the New Year is rung in Michael

grabs Fredo by the head and kisses him on the mouth and says, I know it was you Fredo, you broke my heart. The kiss, the so-called kiss of death.

Matt (44:42)
Kiss of Death, finally.

I waiting for that. You know, as much as I complain about how long this movie was, which it really was, but back to Michael realizing that Fredo was involved in the assassination attempt. Coppola spends 15 seconds of just on his face of him realizing, taking it in, trying to grab his head around it.

Tug McTighe (45:01)
Just here, just.

Yeah.

Matt (45:10)
He doesn't shorten that. We needed to know how profound that was. And I thought that was important.

Tug McTighe (45:14)
That's exactly

right. That's exactly right.

The Cuban revolution erupts at this moment. Amid the chaos, Michael orders Ross' assassination. Again, the attempt fails, he's wounded. Michael returns to the US, distances himself from Fredo. We learned that Fredo's in New York, he got out all right. Ross got out on a private boat, he's in a hospital in Miami, Fredo's in New York. Michael asked Tom to find Fredo and bring him home.

Matt (45:19)
That's bad timing.

Tug McTighe (45:36)
Tom also tells Michael that Kay had a miscarriage and lost the baby.

Matt (45:41)
Yeah, there's a part there where Michael asks about Anthony's birthday, which he missed. And Tom said, I got him this little red electric car he can drive around. It was really great. And that'll come back later, but for a guy that talks about family and for a movie that's all about family, he's really being a terrible, terrible father and husband. Like, yeah.

Tug McTighe (46:01)
100 % and so this

tells us he's he's been gone for at the very least weeks But it might be months You know, it's not I'll be back on Friday Right. It was not that for sure. So yeah, he's letting everything that he purports to care about and is working for

Right? He's really on a revenge tour at this point, which I hadn't really thought about until just this moment. Hey, let's take a break and talk about our sponsor, little bear graphics.

Matt (46:32)
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Tug McTighe (46:38)
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Matt (47:08)
great. I will say that Amy Dement who is one of our listeners said that your commercials for Little Bear are her favorite part of the show. Yes.

Tug McTighe (47:15)
⁓ I'll take it.

Matt (47:20)
We've been in the present for a while. It's been a while since we flashed back to the 1900s.

Tug McTighe (47:24)
Nice setup. Here we go. Vito in 1917. So really important after again, he's laying in Copa's laying in on a little thick after Fredo is, is found out to be the trader. We cut back to 1917 and Fredo has pneumonia symbolizing that he's always been sickly and weak.

Matt (47:47)
It's always damaged goods from the very start.

Tug McTighe (47:48)
God bless,

right? So this is where Vito really starts to rise to his destiny. Faduchi is the boss. He shakes down Vito. He says, I hear about you and Clemenza and Tessio and what you're doing. I just need to wet my beak a little, right? You need to pay me for protection. Hey, do what you want. can all succeed, but I need a couple hundred bucks a week.

We learn a lot about Vito here. He's protective of his friends. He's a good man in his own way. He says, what if we don't pay? And Bruno Kirby's like, are you crazy? He'll, he'll murder all of us. Blah, blah, blah, blah. We just pay him and he stays quiet and we're good. And Vito says, I'll take, I'll take care of it. I'll take care of Fennucci. and he says the Tessio and Clemenza, his best friends. Now, when I take care of it, I want you to remember I did you a favor.

So right, there's always something on the hook. And he says, I'm gonna go talk to him. I'm gonna get him to take less. Tessio says, ⁓ how? And he goes, I'm gonna make him an offer he don't refuse. Right, so that'll come back. But again, I think we learn a lot about Vito here. He's tough and he's noble and he's trying to do the right thing. And again, you're rooting for him to succeed.

Matt (48:56)
I don't come back.

Tug McTighe (49:08)
even as he's about to murder a guy.

Matt (49:11)
Yeah,

but he also kind of establishes that of these three guys sitting at the table together, he's really he's got his own agenda and he's going to run the show and they're just going to be they're going to be number two and number three.

Tug McTighe (49:19)
without question, without question. I think

this is the moment all three of them that set their relationship, even at the table, not even at the murder, at that table, this is their relationship for the next 50 years. Yeah.

Matt (49:33)
Yeah. So

Tessio, the young Tessio is played by a guy, an actor named John Apria. Hopefully I pronounced that right. He was a pretty great eighties TV, that guy. And when you watch this movie, even when you see him, you're like, I've seen him in something for sure. He was, he was like still working into his sixties. He was, think 68 and he got hit by a tour bus in Manhattan and it killed him on the spot.

Tug McTighe (49:48)
Haha.

Matt (49:59)
and the tour bus guy didn't even know he hit him. It was like one of those New York City tours. Very sad. Yeah, but I think it was pretty fast. ⁓ Yeah, the whole scene where Vito takes out Finucci and he's running along the rooftops and then he's got the gun and he shoots him. He goes into his house and he shoots him and then he goes back the way he came and then he takes the gun apart and just takes it various pieces, dumps it out. ⁓

Tug McTighe (50:02)
my gosh, what a terrible way to go.

ROOF TOP

Brexit, yeah.

Matt (50:28)
It just drove home to me. I watched this with my friends, Brian Ruff and Steve Foster, who listened to the show. One of them, I think it was Brian, said, if you wanted to murder someone in 1917, you could probably get away with it.

Tug McTighe (50:42)
significantly

easier. ⁓ yeah. No, no, no. And he takes for new cheese wallet. And he takes the money out of the wallet. He just throws the wallet like down one of those stovepipes. Well, it's Yeah, it's all it's all done in five seconds. And then two minutes later.

Matt (50:44)
Yeah, no cameras, no DNA, no serial numbers on guns.

Yeah, this is gone.

Yeah, and I think the cops

of the cops of the time are like, well, I guess we'll never, never solve that one.

Tug McTighe (51:10)
We'll never, never

saw that one. So again, the juxtaposition of violence and religion, celebration and death. is love and then fear, funny and then scary. The celebrations and violence, right? This is because this is during the street festival and it's the Virgin Mary and they're all putting money and this is all happening. And, and then he murders this guy in cold blood, you know, kicks his body down and then like puts the gun in his mouth and blows it back with his head off. And then.

Five minutes later, he's on the front porch holding the kids, holding young Michael. And they're doing, you know, the families all together. So it really, yeah, being a good dad. cut back to 58 where ⁓ Frankie P and Cheech have been arrested by the FBI and are both agreeing to testify against Michael. So Michael gets home finally to your point earlier. ⁓ big distance between he and Kay.

Matt (51:47)
Yeah, being a great dad.

Tug McTighe (52:09)
And there's been a change of season because the car Anthony got for his birthday is just snow covered. So it's been a long time, visits his mother. he says to her, I'm worried that all I'm doing is working for them and being strong for them. I'm still at the risk of losing them. And she says, you'll never lose your family. But he says times are changing.

Matt (52:11)
snow everywhere.

Yeah, and that that car. OK, so that was the one that Tom referenced it. he's going to love it for his birthday. He's already abandoned it. He just left it in the front yard to get snowed on. He doesn't care. So not a substitute for his dad who's been gone for.

Tug McTighe (52:34)
Correct. Right.

That's right, in the snow. Right, right, right.

Right. So we cut back to Vito in the twenties. So now we've got Vito becoming the Don, helping local residents with their problems. They won't take his money for goods. He always offers to help. He becomes known for his quiet strength and generosity. There's this big scene about the landlord of Senora Colombo, the dog. She's getting kicked out of her apartment. Vito's becoming more and more powerful.

He goes and talks to Senor Roberto and he's like, you don't tell me how much I'm taking for rent. And then like five minutes later, he finds out who Vito was and he comes to his office like she can stay and Vito's like, much is the rent? I promise I get it. I'll lower it by 10. Right. So Vito's like, right. So he's, he's, he's basically shitting himself. ⁓ the landlord is, and there's a great.

There's a great bit where he can't get out the door, like he's pushing the door and it's a pole and he's like, and then he finally gets out. So really funny bit of business.

Matt (53:49)
That was a, so he was a comedic actor and Coppola stuck a nail in, had him stick a nail in the door. So when that guy, cause he wanted to see what he would do when he tried to get in and couldn't get in because he, the actor didn't know that that, he thought he was just gonna walk inside. But he thought, but he knew he was a comedic actor, so he thought he might make it funny and he did.

Tug McTighe (53:59)
Got it.

We just want... Right, that's great.

That's great. And

I think it's these scenes in my mind that really cement the De Niro performance. It's this segment of the movie when he's the Don there. Remember they're putting the sign up for Jenko olive oil. They're going to be olive oil importers and you see this quiet power and generosity, but also this menace all rolled into this.

not a lot of talking, just looks and facial expressions by De Niro. And I don't think he was trying to do a Brando, but it just, they really, the performances really fit together for me.

Matt (54:48)
I agree. Yeah. And I think we need to see that to juxtapose that with what Michael's doing in the present. And one other thing I would say about, thought, why are they making a show of putting up this sign? Right? Because they spent, you know, a little time showing us putting the olive oil sign. They're part of the community. They're not, they don't lord it over people. They're down there with them. People know them. ⁓ So I thought that was...

Tug McTighe (54:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

That's right. That's right. That's right. And hey,

it's interesting to know that in my research, I watched a couple of deleted scenes and one of the guys standing out in the front with them while that signs going up is the young Hyman Roth. There's some deleted scenes of Hyman Roth, this actor playing Hyman Roth. So they all came up together. So I thought that would have been an interesting, again, they shot it.

Matt (55:29)
⁓ wow.

Tug McTighe (55:40)
⁓ They alluded to it in the film. They just never showed it, but that would have been interesting to see. So, okay. So now we're really starting to roll towards the end of this movie and we probably have four hours left, but at a Senate hearing, they're interrogating Michael ⁓ about organized crime. He's testifying Pat Geary really lays it on thick here.

He says I've known this family and I've known Italian Americans are fantastic. And Kay, Diane Keaton doesn't have any dialogue. She's sitting over Michael's right shoulder. It's Tom as his lawyer, Michael at the table. And you can see her a lot. And Michael is just lying perjury himself directly to the U S government without any remorse.

any problem, he's a genius at it and her seeing her face similarly to what you mentioned about Pacino down in Cuba when Fredo when he realized it's Fredo she's just like this guy is beyond even what I thought he was he's truly a monster and it's really a master class in her acting with her eyes pretty amazing

Matt (56:45)
Agree.

Tug McTighe (56:48)
Okay, so how do we finally know that it was Roth the whole time? Exposition alert.

Matt (56:54)
So exposition right?

Tom Hagen tells us, here's what happened.

Tug McTighe (57:00)
Tom Hick,

he just straight tells us. Right, so there's a great scene after this with Michael and Fredo. Fredo, Michael's like, why did, you know, why? And Fredo says, I'm disrespected. Michael said, I always take care of you. I'm the older brother. I don't want to be taken care of. You're my kid brother. I'm just, I want something for me. I want respect. I want, you're right. I want to be a big man.

Matt (57:03)
I might have never known.

Tug McTighe (57:26)
And this is one Michael just says, you're dead to me. and then the one piece of information that Fredo can provide, he provides here when he tells Michael that the Senate chairman is owned by Roth and Michael's never gonna make it. so then here, Michael disowns Fredo.

And then Frank Neary, who is Michael's enforcer, he says, right, this is what he says, he's not to be touched while their mother's alive. And again, this whole movie is filled with ticking clocks all over the place now. There's that ticking clock. There's the Hyman Roth dying ticking clock. And then, oh, by the way, the Senate hearing is tomorrow morning at 10 a.m.

this is where we see Harry Dean Stanton. He lights Frankie's cigar in the, yeah. Yeah, right, right. ⁓ So at the Senate hearing.

Matt (58:13)
Right, just out of nowhere.

Tug McTighe (58:19)
Tom Michael so Frank so Michaels in the gallery now with Tom and Frankie's on the stand and They're asking him the questions reminding him he's under oath and they bring this person. We've never seen in old man sitting with Michael and Tom they're speaking in Italian and Frankie sees him and when Frankie sees him he recants all of his previous testimony, he says no, never

Matt (58:46)
Right.

Tug McTighe (58:48)
Michael never told me anything. I'm not a part of a family. I'm not this and they're like sir You you said under oath all they wanted to mob I gave him the mob. Well, I'm an old man. Sometimes I forget right so there's so he recants this whole story we learn that This was Frank's brother who they went to Sicily to find because he in Sicily is the black hand La Cosa Nostra and

The worst thing you can do is talk. So Frank sees him and.

cannot testify against Michael realizes he's he's made a mistake against the family. So really powerful scene again. After years of having seen this movie and understanding it and talking about it. I understand that scene completely. I feel like it did come a little bit out of nowhere. They could have given us one scene about who this guy was or what it meant. But anyway, they talk about it after the fact and a little bit of an exposition alert as well. ⁓

Matt (59:46)
They do.

Okay, I was wrong. It wasn't John Apria who was hit and killed by a Manhattan tour bus. It was actually Richard Bright who plays Al Neri. That's who it was. I got my actor. I mean, sucks either way, but I wanted to be correct.

Tug McTighe (1:00:01)
Oh, there we go. Okay. Well, either way, either way, it's awful. But thank you. And hey,

hey, ladies and gentlemen, that's what you get on Cinemisses. Real-time fact-checking of ourselves. Our staff of two does it on the fly. So, so anyhow, so Frankie P has recanted his testimony. Michael is with Kay at the hotel.

Matt (1:00:14)
That's right.

Tug McTighe (1:00:29)
She says, Hey, I'm leaving with the kids. I don't love you anymore. I can't do this anymore. And Michael says, look, it's, it's going to be okay. I know you lost the baby. We can have another one. I know Ms. Carrie just can be hard. She goes, Michael, you're so blind. I didn't miss Carrie. had an abortion. This is like a nuclear bomb going off in Catholic town for Michael.

She says it was the sun and I had it killed because all of this must end. So even as I say it, I got the chills and you know, I raised Catholic. I'm certainly not a practicing Catholic. nothing she could do what hurt him more than that.

And she chose to do it. And then, just that line, it was the sun and I had it killed. Because all this must send is just really powerful stuff. ⁓

Matt (1:01:23)
Yeah, he's so he's been lying to her face the whole time ⁓ so when he says right But she saw him do it ⁓ and so she knows that's bullshit, That's rough stuff and I'm not I'm not condoning that he punched her but I'm not surprised like that seemed like a genuine reaction ⁓

Tug McTighe (1:01:26)
And she's known it, now, right, but it's just so evident now.

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. he hasn't been Michael's

right again. I the the difference between veto and Michael the gap is growing.

Matt (1:01:49)
Right, ⁓ that's, you know, back to Vito, like De Niro and Brando carried that role with a calmness, like a calm strength, and Michael doesn't have it. He's like, he's at the edge, end of his rope here. Yeah, for sure.

Tug McTighe (1:01:57)
Yeah. Yeah. No, he's hotter. Yeah. He's always

burning hotter. So again, and I think it's important to note, right? Again, none of this happens by accident. It's all written properly and directed and acted properly. Michael wins at the Senate hearing and then loses in the next scene. He's losing his family. these are really tour de force performances by Keaton Pacino.

we go back to Italy now Vito takes his young family back to Italy. He's making enough money He wants to check on his burgeoning olive oil business and also settle a score Again the juxtapositions. It's a beautiful family trip and he's about to knife a guy to death

Matt (1:02:43)
Yeah. Did you see this bit where they're eating dinner together and his kid is like boxing a guy that's just sitting there trying to eat his dinner? And Vito says, yeah, Vito says something like, Sonny, why are you always fighting? you know what he's like in the first movie.

Tug McTighe (1:02:45)
Yeah.

Right, sunny, and it's the hothead, right? Right.

Matt (1:03:01)
so my mom has told me many times that she thinks kids are born with an inherent temperament. And so this kind of reinforces this idea that these characters were what they were gonna be from the start.

Tug McTighe (1:03:07)
Right.

this idea.

They were a certain way and they were gonna be that way. So he's checking on his olive oil business. And then under the guise of friendship and paying his respects, Vito pays a visit to Don Ciccio. Remember everyone, Ciccio is the mobster who murdered Vito's family and why he had to escape to America. So as he's showing, you know, brings him a big like tin can of olive oil, ⁓ he slits his stomach.

spits on him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt (1:03:41)
Wow, that was brutal. So again,

even though he's De Niro has like this calm temperament, mean, he's, can be really brutal. He stuck that knife in and just ripped it up the guy's stomach.

Tug McTighe (1:03:52)
Yep, right, spits

on it, and then there's a shootout and they have to escape. ⁓ And again, all of this is immediately followed by what, Matt?

Matt (1:04:00)
He's back at church.

Tug McTighe (1:04:02)
Back at church, talking to a priest. About the 75th time Francis Ford Couple puts these two ideas together. quick, hey, all you have to do is confess, say a couple Hail Marys, hey, don't forget to throw some money in the basket, and everything's fine.

Matt (1:04:14)
You know, it's funny to me,

Coppola reportedly was not devout. He said, I went to, you know, I was Catholic as a kid and then it just didn't take. thought the nuns were mean. But having said that, these Catholic themes show up all the time.

Tug McTighe (1:04:28)
Well, without question,

and again, I think that's again why there's, it's not a surprise that he's elapsed Catholic or like me, Catholic and is like rejecting a lot of, but it is ingrained deeply, especially if you went to Catholic schools, which I'm assuming he did. It's just in you, man. And this is his way of taking the piss out of it a little, I think. So back in the present, Mama Corleone dies. Everyone is there to pay their respects, including Connie and her children.

Matt (1:04:50)
Maybe.

Tug McTighe (1:04:56)
Connie feels like she might have listened to Michael little bit. says, let me take care of you. Fredo's inconsolable. Connie asked where Michael is and Tom says she's in the boathouse. And then she says, tell him to come in. And he goes, he's waiting until Fredo leaves. So it's just ice cold between them. Fredo asked Tom to get Michael so they can talk. And Tom says to Fredo, it's not gonna happen.

Connie tries to make peace with my a lot. A lot of people trying to make peace. Fredo trying to make peace. Connie trying to make peace. Michael refuses to make peace. In fact, with more line, he coldly accepts Connie. Okay, I'll talk to Fredo. And then he looks at when he's hugging Fredo, he looks over Fredo's shoulder to Al Neri, who he told not till my mother's dead. And now

Alfredo's got a target on him.

mean really tough stuff, right? everything Michael does is a lie. He's like a machine. Again, that's why I say like I hadn't thought about this. He's just on a revenge tour now. These guys tried to end me. I'm going to end them. And everything else is falling apart, literally falling apart. Connie showed her vulnerability. Fredo shows his. Michael just continues to pretend.

He accepts and just is lying. It's just really tough.

All right, well, now the fall of Roth and Frank P. Hyman Roth has been on the run because Michael got out of everything he tried to do to him. Got out of the Senate, got away from the murder attempt. So Roth has been on the run, but he's been denied asylum. Everybody knows he's a gangster too, by the way. Argentina won't take him. Israel won't take him. Now again, Superman comes in. What is he? Superman is lawful good. Tom is not lawful.

But ⁓ he's trying to, Tom tells Michael, he says, you won. You beat Roth, you beat Fredo, you beat the government. Is all of this worth it? Because Michael wants to murder Roth still. Again, this is where they have some brotherly tension about Tom's rolling things. And Tom got a job offer. And Michael knows Tom got like a sum law firm offer Tom a job. He's turned it down. And Tom's like, when have I fucking?

Matt (1:06:57)
Mm-hmm.

Tug McTighe (1:07:07)
Denied you. I've never denied you. And Michael is still kind of a jerk to him.

Matt (1:07:09)
Right.

His paranoia is out of control here. Cause he's like, you know, were you ever going to tell me about this job? He said, do I have to tell you about every job I turned down? Yeah. I said, no, what do you want?

Tug McTighe (1:07:18)
I talk to a lot of people. I've never once, yeah,

I never once, you know, of all the people that he should trust, it's Tom. Frankly, he might be the only person,

Matt (1:07:28)
For sure. And back to Roth, probably.

Tom's right. To take Roth out is going to be very complicated. And the feds have him anyway. It's like, it's not like he's getting away with it.

Tug McTighe (1:07:39)
No, they said, that's

right, Matt. They said the second he lives in the US, he's going into custody.

Matt (1:07:43)
Yeah, it's not a win for Roth, but Michael doesn't care.

Tug McTighe (1:07:47)
So anyhow, Rocco Lampone meets him at the airport pretending to be a reporter, shoots him dead. He gets killed in process. Frank, not as well as he could have, yeah.

Matt (1:07:56)
He did not plan that very well.

He got shot and killed right away.

Tug McTighe (1:08:01)
But

two seconds later, Frank Tangeli is found dead in his bathtub under government watch. He committed suicide. A great scene where Tom visits him in prison and says, you know, when they, when they, in the Roman empire, when they went up against the emperor and they lost, they just went home and if they killed themselves, we will protect your family. You know, you know, everybody is going to be, we're going to take care of everything. You do the right thing. then.

Frankie comes up with the very plan that Tom wants him to come up with Connie bless her is secretly allowing Kay to see the kids Michael is forbidden Kay from the house and seeing the kids The kids are reticent Anthony's reticent as Kay leaves Michael arrives Kay tries to speak to Michael. He just shuts the door on her face it's again brutal and Really well performed by these two actors

Matt (1:08:50)
Yeah, pride. mean, tremendous pride on Michael's part.

Tug McTighe (1:08:52)
Pride.

Okay, well, Matt, this is what you've been waiting for over the course of now our 11th episode. The end of our 11th episode, you're about to see Fredo get whacked. Michael and the family are at Lake Tahoe. Anthony and Fredo have bonded over fishing. Michael calls Anthony away. They go out in the boat. Fredo tells Anthony, he always catches a fish because he says every time he puts his

Matt (1:08:59)
Finally!

Tug McTighe (1:09:14)
line of the water, says a Hail Mary. So we see this great shot backlit. it's Fredo and Al Neri out of the boat. Fredo wouldn't, why would you ever get in the boat with Al Neri? Right? Right. So he's, he's fishing and saying Hail Mary and what happens? Al Neri shoots him in the head and he, then they cut back to the boat. There's just one guy sitting in it and a nice transition to Michael.

Matt (1:09:23)
because he's an idiot. Why would you turn your back to him?

Tug McTighe (1:09:38)
sitting looking out at the water with real pensive-ness and emotion. Again, the similar parallels that we've talked about the whole time, they intercut these acts of violence together. Fredo being killed, Hyman Roth being killed, Frank committing suicide, religion is there too, Roth says he wants to live in Israel as a Jew, Fredo says that Hail Mary is out there, shoots him, he cut back to Michael. Just alone, a powerful man, quote unquote.

alone.

Matt (1:10:01)
But it's that montage like in the Godfather, in the first one.

Tug McTighe (1:10:04)
Very similar.

Yep, very similar.

And then there's a really nice 1941 flashback. It ends with a flashback to the whole family celebrating Vito's birthday. James Khan's there. Sonny, Tom, Fred are all there. In fact, it's Sonny that introduces Connie to Carlo in a nice bit of business. Oops, bad choice, Sonny. in a continuing list of Sonny's bad choices. Was introducing Carlo to...

Matt (1:10:25)
Yeah.

yeah.

Tug McTighe (1:10:33)
Cut it.

Matt (1:10:34)
Yeah, fun story about James Conn. He agreed to come back for that one scene on the condition he get paid as much money as he got paid for the entire first movie and they said nope.

Tug McTighe (1:10:44)
There you go. ⁓ Michael then tells them he joined the Marines. Shocking the family. There's some overt racism from Sonny about what you're going to do with the Japanese folks. He doesn't use that phrase. But again, this is that young, idealistic Michael before he's drawn into the family business. The others exit the greet veto. Connie comes out and says he's here and Michael's left alone.

Matt (1:10:51)
That's right.

Tug McTighe (1:11:05)
once again in a in a in the most brando-iest of brando moves he agrees to be in the scene he doesn't show up for the one day of filming they needed him for because he was he was mad about his treatment by paramount pictures during the first film and a salary dispute so ultimately francis ford coppola had to rewrite the scene eliminating marlon brando's character of the dawn entirely so marlon brando is

lousy with these kind of decisions and moments. So this is another one to add to the legend, right?

Matt (1:11:35)
I think they almost expect it.

Right, yeah, Coppola had to rewrite it like on the spot, like on the fly when he didn't show up. But we did see A Begoda again. That was pretty cool. It was a good book. And it I like that scene because it reminded us that there was a time when Michael wanted to or said he wanted to make his own way that he didn't want to be part of the family business and everything that goes with it. Yeah, he was hoping. Yeah.

Tug McTighe (1:11:45)
You get Abe Bogota. Yep, he brings the cake in. ⁓

That's right.

And don't forget Vito wanted him out too.

Right? Vito,

you could be a Senator, right? And then we cut into the present. Michael's just sitting there alone, reflective, hollow. He closes his eyes and, you know, guilt and loss and lonely. And again, they did a nice job where they all left the room and he was alone at the table in 1941. And then they cut to him being alone in 58. Really, really introduced.

really interesting way to end this whole thing.

Matt (1:12:33)
Yeah, I wondered if we're supposed to conclude that he was thinking back to that

Tug McTighe (1:12:36)
I think that's a fine interpretation. I they did the cross. That's right. know, one sort like the parallel, right? If I'd have made this decision, it would have all been different. And again, when they crossfade, the dinner fades and then it's alone Michael in 41, alone Michael in 58. Yeah, you realize it didn't really work out for Michael.

Matt (1:12:39)
Yeah, like how things might have been different, right?

Yeah.

Tug McTighe (1:12:59)
Alright!

So what do we think?

Matt (1:13:02)
All right, a few closing thoughts for me. This movie was really, really, really long. After the first viewing, I was reminded, of course, of the 2009 Nora Ephron craptastrophe, Julie and Julia.

Yes, a movie I inexplicably watched at some point. British, I think Robin and I watched it as like a date night movie or something. It was, so you have seen this? Okay.

Tug McTighe (1:13:21)
I have seen it also.

I have. And I agree 100

% with your interpretation. So carry on. And let me pile on.

Matt (1:13:33)
Right. It's 50.

Yeah. This movie is like half Julia Child biopic with Meryl Streep and Stanley Tucci, who are both great. It's very likable and surprising, interesting turns as Julia Child and her husband. And then the other half is this insipid dreck where Amy Adams plays a struggling hipster blogger with a stupid, boring life. And she's trying to work her way through like blogging about making all the food and Julia, all the recipes, Julia Child's.

Tug McTighe (1:13:59)
It's a true story

of a blogger who went and did every recipe in, I think, French cooking, the Julia Child cookbook. Yeah.

Matt (1:14:08)
in a year. ⁓

She was awful. The onion, yes.

Tug McTighe (1:14:11)
And that part, yeah, that

part of the movie sucks. The biopic starring Julia Child and Stanley Tucci and Jane Lynch as Julia Child's sister is fantastic. That part is great. Yeah, I don't want to watch the rest of it.

Matt (1:14:16)
for sure. ⁓

I that. Yeah, it was really good. I was like, make this a whole movie. it was funny. ⁓

The AV club, which used to be the onion AV club, ⁓ gave it a C. They said it's two movies in one, which is one more than it needs to be. And it compared its storytelling structure to guess what? The Godfather Part Two. ⁓ My point being, I like half that movie and hated half and wished I could just see a whole movie about the one and no movie about the other.

Tug McTighe (1:14:34)
Okay.

There you go.

Matt (1:14:53)
In this case, I liked Michael's story and I like Vito's probably more and wondered why they couldn't be two separate movies and then watching it for the second time. I think it needed both parts. It really did. And it needed them side by side. Like you needed to see what made Vito what he was and how his virtues and character and personality made him better. And we also needed to see how Michael got off track.

had some inherent flaws that caused him to lose pretty much everything. If family's everything, by the end of the movie, he's got nothing. So at the end of The Godfather, I thought Michael is his father now, a worthy successor. And at the end of this movie, I saw all the reasons why that was wrong.

Tug McTighe (1:15:20)
Yeah, he's got nothing.

Yeah. I do think you need the back and forth. I don't think if you to run the like, and there's a way to watch this, right? The Godfather saga. It's like a seven hour super cut that does all the

Italy part first, right? It does all the veto stuff and then it leads into the Godfather, right? And that I've seen some of that. The intercutting is really important, especially as we talked about it, because you're seeing veto. They're making, when they're making veto and Michael seems similar sometimes, and then you're seeing how they're different sometimes, which I think is what you're talking about. It's you thought Michael was the Don, he's not. Veto was the Don.

Matt (1:16:12)
Right.

Tug McTighe (1:16:14)
Michael is a sort of copy of a copy at this point. And then again, you can't watch a Godfather movie without the themes of Catholicism and repentance and forgiveness, which are central to the Catholic beliefs. Michael has lost all sight of, I mean, he lost sight of it in the Godfather, he's really lost sight of it here, They ask him in the Godfather, do you renounce Satan? I do.

Matt (1:16:35)
Get hid.

Tug McTighe (1:16:38)
Whack, whack, whack, whack, right? Again, it's so on the nose, can be nothing more than a, it's so on the nose, it has to be him going, do you get it? Yes, we get it, Francis, we get it. ⁓

Matt (1:16:50)
Yeah, I get it.

No, we have operate. He has many opportunities to genuinely forgive people who are honestly repentant like his sister and his brother. And he's not going to do it. He's just too prideful. Okay.

Tug McTighe (1:16:59)
who he should forgive. Correct. He refuses. Yeah. All

right. The big question, a sin hitter or a sin of miss?

Matt (1:17:09)
⁓ it's a Cine hit. just is. It's long as hell. There's ton going on, but the performances are great. And I'm glad I watched it. De Niro got his best supporting actor and I think he deserved it. ⁓ I wrote that I like to think there's a parallel dimension where Francis Ford Coppola wrote a version of this where they never go to Cuba. And I kind of want to see that, but otherwise like Citizen Kane, it's a solid film. I will probably never watch again.

Tug McTighe (1:17:11)
Yeah, of course it is.

Yeah,

we watched it twice. You're seven hours in already. So there you go. Okay, well, I love that, Matt. Yeah, I love it for all the reasons you talk about. I consumed this a little bit like a limited Netflix series where I watched about an hour of it, then an hour, 30 of it, then another hour of it. Cause you know, when I'm taking, when you're taking these notes and stuff, it's like three hours turns into four hours, but

⁓ a little, ⁓ a little complicated for what it ultimately, for the themes, was ultimately communicating. Cuba could have been slimmed down. think we could have knocked off some 20 minutes of fluff's not the right word, but we could have pepped it up a little bit in places.

Matt (1:18:25)
I think we could have knocked this down to 245.

Tug McTighe (1:18:28)
Yeah, yeah, and it'd been tight. But again, masterpiece, difficult film to make, really important film. ⁓ And again, it's like I said, at the jump, I don't know how many times I've seen it. Maybe this one time, really. Or I probably saw it whenever I saw it. And then I've seen pieces of it.

Matt (1:18:31)
Yeah.

Tug McTighe (1:18:51)
for 50 years. And then now I finally saw it all again. Yeah, good movie. Godfather 2. Good way to start season 2. So speaking of season 2, if you're with us and still like what we're doing here, please consider giving us a rating at Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It really does help others discover the show. And we want to hear from you. So please send us a note, comment.

Matt (1:18:57)
Good way to start. Good way to start season two.

Tug McTighe (1:19:16)
thought or movie idea at cinemuses at gmail.com. but before we go, I do want to talk about our, sponsor a little bit of graphics one more time. you know why Hyman Roth lost in the Godfather part two? Wasn't cause of Michael. Wasn't cause of betrayal. It's cause the man had zero branding. No logo, no website, no tagline, just a sweaty guy with his shirt off yelling about Cuba. Meanwhile, Michael Corleone.

Song, family name, iconic presence, timeless aesthetic. Check out Little Bear Graphics today. Matt will give you logos, websites, branding, and more that speaks louder than a Tommy gun in Havana. Don't end up like Hyman Roth. Check out LittleBear.Graphics instead.

Matt (1:19:57)
I like to think if Hyman Roth wore a shirt, would be a little Bear Graphics t-shirt.

Tug McTighe (1:20:00)
It'd be

a little bear. Hey, we should strip that. Hey, why don't you grab a screen grab and we'll put a shirt on him for one of the social posts. All right. Yeah, right. think you can. Yeah, I think you can. All right. So we are doing something new with season two. That rhymed. We are going to wrap it up here. We're going to tell you what our next cinema miss is. And we're going to ask our cinema misser, in this case, Matt.

Matt (1:20:03)
You're right.

shirt on him. He needs it. I'll see if I can find a picture of him with no shirt on. It should not be hard.

Tug McTighe (1:20:29)
what he thinks he knows about our next film. Matt, what is our next film and what do think you know?

Matt (1:20:34)
Our next film is Crazy Stupid Love. This is two in a row that I haven't seen, but I don't care. We do whatever we want, right? ⁓ I am looking forward, after this intense emotional movie, I am looking forward to some lighthearted frivolity, which I think maybe this has. I think it's a comedy. It may have a Gosling in it. It may have a Jill and all. Maybe Steve Carell, or maybe I'm thinking of a different movie. Other than that,

Tug McTighe (1:20:42)
That's hell yes we do.

Right?

Matt (1:21:03)
I don't know anything about this movie.

Tug McTighe (1:21:04)
standing this is one of ceramic ties top top top rom-com picks and I believe this will be our first romantic comedy

Matt (1:21:10)
Ooh, nice.

I think you're right. I'm looking forward to it.

Tug McTighe (1:21:16)
So it

ought to have, hey, if we're gonna do our first one, it's gonna have Steve Carell and Ryan Gosling and my favorite Emma Stone. So I gave you little more than you knew. All right, thank you, Matt. I'm Tug, this has been Cinemisses.

Matt (1:21:29)
Thank you, Tug.

I'm Matt and we'll see you next time.

Tug McTighe (1:21:35)
Thanks everybody.