CINEMISSES! Sideways

Today on CINEMISSES!, hosts Matt and Tug belly up to the wine tasting bar for the film Sideways. They discuss its characters, themes, and the impact of writer/director Alexander Payne. They share personal anecdotes related to wine, analyze the film's critical reception, and reflect on the complexities of friendship and personal growth. They discuss the evolution of Miles' character, his struggles with relationships, of course, the impact of the infamous Merlot scene. So grab a glass, pour a tall one and drink in the flavor of Chateau Matt & Tug.

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Transcript

Tug McTighe (00:00)
You're listening to Cinemisses, a podcast about movies that one or the other of your two hosts just never got around to seeing. I'm Tug.

Matt Loehrer (00:07)
I'm Matt.

Tug McTighe (00:08)
Reminding you that anybody can make a podcast up about movies that they have seen we are here because we haven't thanks for joining us on cinemases and action so are you good? You're here. You made it

Matt Loehrer (00:20)
Good. I don't know if I told you, I recently got a Blackstone, which if you don't know better, you're like, is that some kind of magical gem that gives you like, it gives you super paranormal supernatural powers, but it corrupts your soul. Which I wish it were but

Tug McTighe (00:27)
if only

In some

ways, your superpowers are you can always be making hash browns. Right.

Matt Loehrer (00:38)
Pretty much. I'm making everything

in this. I'm like, Bananas Foster, how would I do that?

Tug McTighe (00:42)
Just so everyone

knows right Blackstone the gigantic flat top gas-powered grill which I have Copious amounts of envy for every time I see somebody I know right so did you make some dinner?

Matt Loehrer (00:50)
You should get one.

I did. We made hamburgers. They're great. They're better when they like stew in their own grease. You know, you put them on the grill and all the grease drops through. But when you make them on the blackstone, they just get to it's like wallowing in your own crapulence. Yeah, it's filthy and you feel so bad about it, but it tastes so good.

Tug McTighe (01:01)
No, why would-

There's- there's- while we get their own grease, I love it. ⁓ It's... disgusting.

And then I changed the... script outline and you had to get a new one and I- I have fucked the whole thing up, I apologize. Grandly for that. Did you,

Matt Loehrer (01:18)
No, it's okay. I think we're on the same page. Most people

think we're unscripted because we're so natural. But there's a script.

Tug McTighe (01:23)
⁓ this feels so natural.

Did you recently had an anniversary?

Matt Loehrer (01:27)
We did 24 years. went to the Bristol. I ate fish the one time a year that it's not in stick form and it was pretty good.

Tug McTighe (01:30)
Congratulations.

Pretty good. I know this as I just saw you drinking a sip of beer, you're 110 % a beer guy, uh, as am I. Um, one of the things we bonded over early was our love of literally all kinds of beer from yellow yard beer to Brown stouts and, and porters. Um, but do you like wine?

Matt Loehrer (01:43)
Yes.

I do. I do now. I was not traditionally a wine guy and certainly not the time this movie came out in 2004. I was a 20 pack of Natty Light from ⁓ from the from the quick trip. For sure. Like, how cheap can I get it? At which I remember seeing the trailers for this and it's other wine country and they're drinking wine. And I thought this is like grown up stuff, which is ⁓ it's.

Tug McTighe (02:08)
Yeah, you were a 30-wreck and natty light. Bring it. Bring it.

Right, well you were in your 30s.

Matt Loehrer (02:23)
32 at the time.

Tug McTighe (02:25)
And according

to your anniversary day, you were married like 12 years already.

Matt Loehrer (02:29)
But I don't know if I consider myself a grownup then. I'm not sure I do now, but I have come to enjoy it. I have my favorites. I'm a red guy. I'm a cap guy. So yeah, it was fun to dip into this movie now because I don't think I would have I don't think I would have appreciated it in 2004.

Tug McTighe (02:43)
having a different life ⁓ experience.

Sarah loves wine. She has a nice wine rack over there and she doesn't have a sweet wine rack, honey. baby. ⁓ but when she first started, I was, I was a zero wine person when we, she, she and I met and she brought me into wine and we made a couple of trips out to Sonoma, which is unbelievably beautiful and awesome and food and booze and beer and wine. it's great.

Matt Loehrer (02:53)
It's a compliment. I know what you're saying.

Peace.

Tug McTighe (03:11)
But she put these wine racks down here, and she needed a system that told me what to do and what not to do. Like, remember in Sideways, he's like, can we have any of this? And she's pulling out great bottles of wine. And so Sarah put a red dot and a yellow dot and a green dot. Green was, drink it, bro. Open it up and drink it from the bottle if you want. Yellow was, you better ask me. Red was, I'll murder you.

Matt Loehrer (03:18)
you

Hahaha

Tug McTighe (03:33)
So we have, have, we learned our lesson, but again, yeah. So guys, the movie is sideways. hadn't seen it since it came out. I think Sarah and I saw it in the theater, because again, she does love wine and we've, like I said, we've been to Sonoma a couple of times. so that's where this sort of wine discussion comes. I love, I love drinking wine when I'm in a wine drinking place, like a tasting, like.

When we go to Sonoma, even years ago went to Australia and we wanted a wine tour of the wine country there. And they say not Shiraz. They say Shiraz, which I especially like. It's more of a like overall vibe for me. Where a beer is just like, yeah, for sure. Well, I, well, yeah, I've also had to learn. You don't drink wine like you drink beer.

Matt Loehrer (03:59)
yeah, they have great wines.

Mm-hmm. And it affects me differently, Like I'm very much mellow out when I'm drinking wine.

Tug McTighe (04:18)
Cause when you're glug, when you're glug, when you're slugging it back like beer, you know, it's 11 or 12 to 15%. So you got to manage your shit. So I had seen it, Matt, you had not. What did you think you, you knew about this movie seeing as how you had cinemast it?

Matt Loehrer (04:19)
I mean, you drink it.

There's a

Okay, I remember the trailers and the TV commercials back when we watched television and they had commercials really vividly. The scene where he drives the car under the tree, it's like indelibly etched in my brain. Yeah, so I knew it started Paul Giamatti, who I love, and Thomas Hayden Church, who I think is usually underrated. Even in 2004, it may be a little, know, Paul Giamatti's evolved a bit, but not leading men by any.

Tug McTighe (04:44)
Yeah, it's a nice bit.

Matt Loehrer (04:57)
You know, they're not blockbuster guys. At all.

Tug McTighe (04:58)
No, this is that middle

ground right between that guy and leading man. They're definitely both more, they're both more than that guy. They're not just a character guy. Giamatti has led several, several, films. Hayden Church, think probably the biggest, somebody will correct me, maybe the biggest role he had was Sandman in that ill-fated, Spider-Man 3. Yeah. he hadn't done it yet. Okay.

Matt Loehrer (05:02)
⁓ yeah.

Spider-Man 3, but he hadn't done that yet. By the time this came out. So really they

were both pretty much that guy. And I knew it took place in California's one country and that's really a character in the movie. Don't you think? Yeah. And at one point a car gets driven into a tree because I saw it on TV commercials and that's it. That's all I knew. That's all I had.

Tug McTighe (05:26)
fight in their way. Okay.

100%.

Made you laugh, good. All right,

the movie is Sideways. The log line, two men reaching middle age with not much to show for it, but disappointment, embark on a week long road trip through California's wine country. So couple buddies, we have Thomas Hayden Church's character Jack can get married, Miles, Paul Giamatti's character, they're best friends, they met in college, we learned later. They're gonna go on a week long trip, Miles is a complete winophile.

loves wine, it's going to take his buddy out and show him a good time before he gets married. So this is a 2004 American comedy drama directed by Alexander Payne and written by Jim Taylor and Alexander Payne. It was a novel by a guy named Rex Pickett from 2004.

Matt Loehrer (06:18)
Yeah, the movie preceded the book. Like, it was in theaters, which probably worked out pretty well for the, for the offer.

Tug McTighe (06:20)
There you go. Look at you.

I would think, yeah. So again, two men in their 40s, Miles Raymond, Paul Giamatti, a depressed teacher and unsuccessful writer, and Jack Cole, Thomas Hayden Church, a past his prime actor who take a week long trip into the Santa Barbara County wine country to celebrate Jack's wedding. Sandra ⁓ and Virginia Madsen are in this. I think they're great in this, Alexander Payne, once again, Matt, we accidentally keep sort of picking these.

These guys that aren't just journeymen, they're not just moving the camera around. Alexander Payne is a writer. He is a director. He writes his own material. He directs his own material. He was born Constantine Alexander Payne, which I liked. He's a Greek American director, screenwriter, producer. he's from Omaha. So he picks these small...

stories. Several of them have been said in Omaha, including election and anger management with Jack Nicholson and Adam Sandler, think was in Nebraska as well. But

Matt Loehrer (07:19)
My friend Patrick

went to the high school where they filmed election. That was his high school.

Tug McTighe (07:23)
There you go. I adore

election, which we will get into as we talk about this. Pick flick. He was born in Omaha, like I said, to Peggy and George Payne, the restaurant owners, youngest of three sons. His paternal grandfather, Nicholas, this is, if this isn't a Greek name, I don't know what is. Nicholas Payne anglicized the last name from Papadopoulos, of course. So Nicholas Papadopoulos. And again, he's a Omaha guy.

graduated from Creighton Prep. My brother Brad went to Creighton University. He wrote, he's one of these guys. He wrote a humor column for the paper. He was the editor of the high school yearbook. He then went to Stanford and then went to UCLA film school where he became friends with my very good friend and commercial director, Russell Bates. Russell Bates and I have made probably 30 to 40 commercials together since

the mid 90s, I still talk to him and he's a big nerd like us and he's just a great guy. hit it off right away and he and John January and Paul Bynum and I are still the best of friends. made a shit ton of commercials together and they went to school together. ⁓

Matt Loehrer (08:22)
little bear commercial? You do commercial for Little Bear, right? For free. I bet he would not.

Tug McTighe (08:23)
I bet he would if we asked him to. If we asked him to, he would. I bet he would. Well, he wouldn't know he's

So this is one of these stories, a little bit like Spielberg, right? In the 60s, Payne's father received a super eight millimeter projector from Kraft Foods as a loyalty. He was working in the restaurant and he, I guess, bought a lot of cheese.

And so they gave him a camera, which I think is great. Hey, Nick, thanks for buying all this cheese. Here's a camera. And he gave it to Alexander, and there you go, right? The love of filmmaking was born.

Matt Loehrer (08:55)
Yeah, I think he would have been a writer either way. You know, it's just, he got that camera and I think that set him off in a new direction, but definitely a writer, definitely a writer's writer and his partner that he worked with, they were a pair on a number of movies.

Tug McTighe (08:58)
I think so too, for sure.

Matt Loehrer (09:11)
Okay, so what's he made? He made Citizen Ruth in 96. It was his first movie writer, director on that. He made Election in 99 He made about Schmidt. I asked my friend Patrick what was that about? He said Schmidt.

Tug McTighe (09:22)
I said anger management. I didn't mean anger management. I meant about Schmidt. I did. Yes, they are. I meant about Schmidt.

Matt Loehrer (09:25)
You meant about you. Yeah, those are very different movies.

Yeah, so he road directed that he did sideways after that. I think that was kind of a big breakthrough film for him. The Descendants with Clooney after that, Nebraska, that's ⁓ downsizing, which kind of surprises me. That was the one with Matt Damon where they shrunk down and

Tug McTighe (09:41)
That's a good one too, I like that one.

Yeah, that one I saw. I wanted to like it more. I thought the idea was interesting and I knew it was Alexander Payne. That one didn't work as well for me.

Matt Loehrer (09:51)
dinner.

Yeah.

and a departure

from his kind of milieu, I think.

Tug McTighe (10:04)
100 % from his small, character pieces. You get to know these people and live with these people throughout this event that's happening.

Matt Loehrer (10:10)
For sure.

Yeah. And as I think about it, that might've been a failure of marketing too. I got the impression that they didn't know how they wanted to package that movie. So you might've gone into it thinking, hey, this is a crazy comedy or this is about the environment or God knows what else. you know, their marketing campaign went about 15 different directions.

Tug McTighe (10:29)
This is

a fucking great point. And I'll tell you why I know you're right. I was working at DEG at the time that that came out and we had AMC as a client and we were doing all those emails for AMC, if you'll recall. And when downsizing showed up on our, you know, the brief showed up, we're like, oh, this looks, and we, you know, we watched the trailer and we read them and I'm like, okay, Alexander Payne, I love election. love sideways. And then you're like, okay, this is a kind of a weird science fiction-y

thing. Maybe like you said, it's going to be funny because they get small. And no, it's not funny. It's not it's actually very similar to sideways and election. There's a thick undercurrent of sadness in all of these in all these films that I'm sure we'll discuss. Yeah, definitely for sure.

Matt Loehrer (11:11)
Sure, and satire, and that's what he does routinely.

I don't know if people know this. Some people will say, well, duh, and other people will have their minds blown when I say this. The companies that make the trailers that you see on TV or on YouTube or wherever is not the people that made the movie. It's a completely different company.

Tug McTighe (11:28)
That is correct. If you didn't know that your month. Yes,

it's just and they make them. Yeah Yeah That's correct

Matt Loehrer (11:32)
And sometimes you don't know what you're going to get.

⁓ And then there's an untitled Janine Basinger documentary that I know nothing about, nor who that person is. Actually, I do know because I looked it up. ⁓ She's ⁓ a film school legend from UCLA film school. So this sounds like a labor of love. ⁓

Tug McTighe (11:45)
Me neither. TBA.

Okay, there you go. And wait, you

missed the holdovers. After that...

Matt Loehrer (11:59)
jeez, I did. Sorry, that was that.

I haven't seen that. And I think that's going to be in a it's on our list. So ⁓ right, go back to what works. ⁓

Tug McTighe (12:03)
No, it's on our list. That's going to be, yep. Cause again, Giamatti and Payne. So I'm pumped for that. ⁓ I, so yeah,

I liked, so look, I was hooked on this guy. I adored election. One of my favorite parts about election was that Ferris Bueller, who I loved his day off when I was 15 or 16, he's now the teacher. And I thought that

Casting was really inspired and then man what a what a vehicle for Reese Witherspoon That was her big break and she was fantastic in that We also we also for better or for worse Matt got our first dose of Chris Klein who who Had a run right he had quite a run for himself. He was in Election then he was in American Pie. You bet. Yeah, he was in that franchise

Matt Loehrer (12:43)
There's the American Pie movies, right?

Tug McTighe (12:47)
Then they put him in. Yeah, he was a kid in Omaha. yeah.

Matt Loehrer (12:47)
But you know, he wasn't an actor, right? He was a kid. He's a kid at the high school. Yeah.

Tug McTighe (12:52)
And no, I'm 100 % aware he's not an actor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right?

Matt Loehrer (12:55)
He is, right. So he's probably feeling fortunate. And

he showed up in some things since then. He was in, of course, I'm a nerd, so I know this. He was in a season of The Flash. was the bad guy in the WB's Flash show.

Tug McTighe (13:02)
Now he's around!

You may remember this, you're the guy that remembers these things a little better. I feel like he was also in a reboot of Rollerball.

Matt Loehrer (13:15)
He might have been. I know they rebooted Roller.

Tug McTighe (13:17)
Yeah, they should reboot it right out the door again.

Matt Loehrer (13:19)
So what I think is interesting about Alexander Payne is that, satire, always compelling characters, and it seems like a lot of the time flawed characters to the point that you may not like any of his characters. And we're going see that. We're going to talk about that sideways because these guys have some problems.

Tug McTighe (13:30)
Very much so.

Yeah.

Very much so. I mean, just really quickly in election, right? The only cool person in election is Chris Klein. Because he's just a normal doofus kid, right? Because Tracy's no good. McAllister's no good. Mr. McAllister's best friend who has sex with Tracy's no good, right?

Matt Loehrer (13:43)
Yeah, just a nice guy. Yeah.

one thing about the ending of that movie. The original ending had Matthew Broderick's character as a used car salesman working for one of his former students. And Tracy Flick comes by and buys a car from him and they make up and she has him sign her yearbook and audiences hated it. So that's why that's why we got the throwing the milkshake at the limousine scene.

Tug McTighe (14:09)
Yeah, I love that piece of trivia. Throwing the milkshake in, running away.

All right, so, Sideways premiered at Toronto International Film Festival on September 13th, 2004. Released in the US on October 22nd of that year. This was a sort of a critics darling,

It was nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Supporting Actor for Hayden Church, Best Supporting Actress for Madison, and Best Adapted Screenplay, the last of which it run, Best Adapted Screenplay, often Best Screenplay, often a proxy for another award that they weren't gonna give a director, they weren't gonna give a picture, but we liked this movie quite a bit.

Matt Loehrer (14:41)
Right.

And it is, it's kind of a triumph of screenwriting. This was a love letter of the Academy to screenwriting.

Tug McTighe (14:48)
Yeah, he's a great writer, I think. I think that's his best trait. And everything he does is pretty simple in service of that. He's not a flashy director is what I mean by simple. This in service of the characters and in service of the story. ⁓ So tomato meter, 97 % from the critics. ⁓ That's gigantic. Popcorn meter, 79%. You know, again, a nice B. And as we have...

Matt Loehrer (14:52)
and unique.

And a solid choice. Solid track record. I mean, a good list of hoops.

That's crazy.

Sounds about right.

Tug McTighe (15:13)
We have grown to love on this podcast. You and I is talking about budgets. 16 million feels right. Give this guy 15 or 16 million. We'll make a nice looking movie. Raked in 110 million in 2004, which is, mean, this was a hundred million dollar movie in 2004. Um, big success again, especially with this comparatively tiny budget of 15 or 16 million.

Matt Loehrer (15:19)
Yeah.

great.

Yeah,

I wrote my notes once and then actually deleted them. So I had stuff in there the first time that I didn't include this time. And one of those things was talking about the movies that it was... I thought it was Command Q. ⁓ The movies that it was up against, there were a lot of franchises.

Tug McTighe (15:44)
You know, command, command S.

Yes.

Q for quit. Anyway.

Matt Loehrer (15:58)
There was Harry Potter and some minions and... ⁓

Tug McTighe (16:01)
just a

giant franchise. Again, well, they're all giant franchises. And this is a small little movie,

Matt Loehrer (16:04)
Yeah, there were some juggernauts.

It was, but there were also, I think what else? And this is a weird outlier, but Passion of the Christ was the same year and it was made for a very small budget and made a fortune. ⁓ And I never saw it because I was like, I felt like people are trying to guilt trip me in it. Like, do you love Jesus? Better go see it. I'm like, well, then I'm not going to see it. So I've never seen it. Plus I know, I know what happens. Right.

Tug McTighe (16:14)
Is that right? God, Jim Cavie is evil.

Well...

Now you're just making me not want to see it. Me neither. Yeah, we've been in many

churches with the stained glass stations of the cross. Have we not? Yeah. All right, so.

Matt Loehrer (16:36)
I know this. I know the story. So anyway, there

were a lot of movies that were not like this at all, that were just huge spectacles. And I feel like audiences kind of latched onto this as something like, hey, this is this feels like a little more accessible and maybe a little smarter. So I'm going to give it a try.

Tug McTighe (16:53)
attention Hollywood in 2025. Repeat what Matt just said. Maybe there's room for little films that are not just IP and giant, you know, know, sequel number 10 of a franchise. And maybe there aren't. I don't know. I think there are. And I think that people listen to podcasts about movies think there are. ⁓ So yeah, right. We have several ideas today. We just have no follow through is our giant problem. Horse kills.

Matt Loehrer (17:10)
I have several ideas for movies, so if they just...

Right, or money.

Tug McTighe (17:18)
Alright really nice cast Paul Giamatti as Raymond he's in a lot of stuff. He's been in a lot of stuff. He was Pig vomit in the Howard Stern biopic WNBC ⁓ Right ⁓

Matt Loehrer (17:28)
That was his breakthrough. You and BC. That was a

breakthrough breakthrough role for him. And never too good for the role. Yeah, he's never too good. Too good for working. Yeah. I and he said I love all right, so maybe this is. You know me projecting or whatever, but I love this when a schlubby guy succeeds, you know when a five foot nothing guy.

Tug McTighe (17:35)
Yeah. That was a- in the late 90s, I believe.

Yeah, life's working. Right.

Me too.

Matt Loehrer (17:53)
does well, gets out there, just busts his ass and is rewarded and people see his value.

Tug McTighe (17:57)
And as we've discussed at length on this pod.

Those guys and those we'll talk about those ladies that are those working actors that do this job over and over and over again and never carry a picture never Get their name above the title. They're fucking good actors and Giamatti and Hayden Church are no exception They're both really good actors So yeah, Thomas Hayden Church is Jack Cole. He's really funny in this He's kind of a dullard

Matt Loehrer (18:22)
It was great.

Tug McTighe (18:24)
but man, he's got a giant heart and he loves miles. And, you know, like you, you said when we were talking, like this is a little bit of his story where he, right. He was Lowell in wings. That's first time I've ever seen him, the plane mechanic. Very funny in that. That's. Yep. That's exactly right. The dumb guy pops in, makes a funny joke and pops out, ⁓ made a couple films here and there did some work, right. Stayed work, did work.

Matt Loehrer (18:35)
Yeah.

He's kind of like the Woody Harrelson from Cheers character in Wings.

funny though.

Tug McTighe (18:50)
But then he's got that great voice.

Matt Loehrer (18:52)
Yes, he was doing, I remember his voiceover work for Ice. I couldn't remember what it was for, but he'd do a bit, he'd do a voiceover and then he'd say, thanks and enjoy. And that was his, I was like, what was that for? I remember the enjoy part. It was for Ice House. So at some point we were buying enough Ice House beer that they were advertising on television.

Tug McTighe (19:04)
His-

I'm Charles

Well, we

were hooked on anything ice. Bud Ice, Keystone Ice, Ice House. Yeah. OK.

Matt Loehrer (19:19)
yeah, my dad

told me about it once he was amazed. Did you know there's this ice house beer that's like super high alcohol? was like, yeah, did know that. Tell me tell me something I don't know. What are you talking to?

Tug McTighe (19:26)
Yeah, I drank six of them before I started talking to you.

Virginia Madsen, I like her a lot in this as Maya. This was a breakthrough for her. She was a working actress, actor for a long time. She won a bunch of stuff for this. She won a Golden Globe. She got nominated for a lot of stuff. ⁓

Matt Loehrer (19:39)
for decades.

She won a best

supporting for this, didn't she? Or was it a nomination? Either way.

Tug McTighe (19:45)
⁓ She got a nomination for sure.

Yeah, big. Yeah, it's a big deal and

Matt Loehrer (19:50)
She was our

girl, Princess Irulan from Dune. That's first time I ever saw her.

Tug McTighe (19:54)
She sure was, June 84, David Lynch.

And then in sad news, her brother and frequent Tarantino collaborator Michael Madsen died just a couple days ago of an apparent cardiac arrest. RIP Mr. Blonde, the famous ear cutting scene.

Matt Loehrer (20:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, I will always remember him. The

dancing scene, yeah, the stuck in the middle.

Tug McTighe (20:13)
You can't listen to Suck in the Middle with you without picturing that scene.

Matt Loehrer (20:14)
No, Robin is not

my, Robin's not a huge movie person and she still can identify that movie, that song from that movie, from that scene.

Tug McTighe (20:22)
That's exactly,

that's the power of some of what Tarantino does. Sandra Oh before she became a doctor and joined the Grey's Anatomy, she was really good in this, thought. Young, my gosh. Yeah, yeah, Stephanie.

Matt Loehrer (20:26)
All right, P, Michael Maddison.

And she was beautiful. She looked great. Wow.

And she was married to Alexander Payne at the time, though I don't think that marriage lasted much longer.

Tug McTighe (20:40)
Yeah.

Again, yeah, think Sandra ⁓ was terrific in this. Mary Louise Burke is Mrs. Raymond Miles' mom. She has like two or three scenes, and she's great. She has five or six. Yeah. Yeah. She has.

Matt Loehrer (20:50)
I loved her. Just, she's right at the beginning. She's wearing her housecoat. She's just gushing.

She's gushing over Jack. The, ⁓ he's a famous actor's in my house. Why did you let me put my face on? It was just great. It was very Estelkis, very Estelkis dance.

Tug McTighe (20:59)
She loves Jack. I gotta put my face on. Right. So, right. You should have called. And then she of course calls.

She of course calls Miles's sister who Miles doesn't want to see. There's just a lot of, and there's a lot of stuff going on with her and we'll get to talk about when we talk about the story. Okay. And then a sin of Mrs. First. I want to shout out our first that girl.

Matt Loehrer (21:17)
Yeah, we'll get to that.

Tug McTighe (21:24)
I know it's that guy. I don't really want it to be that girl, but we're going to call it that guy and that girl. Jessica Hecht is our first character actor, that woman that we've seen in this. Jessica Hecht is in a ton of stuff. She was Ross's ex-wife's lesbian partner throughout the entire run of Friends. She was in Breaking Bad. She was in The Single Guy with Jonathan Silverman, if you recall that dud.

But she's, Jessica Hecht is in a ton of stuff. you know, five spots here on a popular show. Three appearances, all, and she's still working. So our very first, that guy who's a woman, congratulations, Jessica Hecht. Your reward will be, not Marlo Thomas, that girl, that's right. Your reward, Jessica Hecht, will be keep working. ⁓

Matt Loehrer (21:48)
I'm afraid I do. I remember from-

that girl, but not Marlo Thomas.

It's different that way. Great.

Tug McTighe (22:14)
And then there's a lot more people. I would also like to point out another that girl, Stephanie Farrissey as Miles's, no, as Stephanie's mother, Stephanie Farrissey as Ginny. Miles called her Carol. It's really weird, but she was Stephanie's mother, Sandra Oh's mother. She has a group of smallish parts, including the wife in the great outdoors, which is a McTie family favorite. She was in Hocus Pocus all the way up to a couple of years ago.

for the not very good but kinda funny Mike and Dave need wedding dates with Aubrey Plaza and Anna Kendrick and

Matt Loehrer (22:43)
I did not see that.

I

do like those two, though. That's interesting. You'd think it'd be better.

Tug McTighe (22:48)
Yeah, so that movie's worth watching Mike,

but she's yeah, so we've got a

Matt Loehrer (22:52)
I had

to look her up. And then I saw her face and said, you're right, that's another, that girl, I've seen her in a billion things.

Tug McTighe (22:58)
Back to Alexander Payne and his way of doing things. He doesn't want Harrison Ford. Cause Harrison Ford is Harrison Ford. He wants somebody who is this character who isn't, you know, isn't a face, isn't a name who can inhabit this character that he's created.

Because he doesn't want it to be Harrison Ford playing Miles, he wants it to be Miles. And I think that's a differentiator for him.

Matt Loehrer (23:17)
Right.

Interestingly, other people that were up for the role of Jack were Brad Pitt, who I would not have liked to have seen in this. I don't hate him, Aaron, Aaron, yeah, and Aaron Eckhart, who might have.

Tug McTighe (23:27)
work. Just too much. No, I like, I like Brad Pitt. Fine.

Aaron Eckhart maybe

I have seen that more than Pitt.

Matt Loehrer (23:35)
I don't know since I've seen the Dark Knight, I can't see. I can't see anything else. Okay.

Tug McTighe (23:37)
Yeah, right. Aaron Eckhart,

though, was Aaron Brockovich's off-again, on-again Harley-Ridin' in Aaron Brockovich. A little bit. anyway, but Hayden Church, amazing. So let's get into it. All right, so Miles Raymond picks up his friend Jack Cole at Jack's fiance's house to begin a week together in advance of the wedding. They seem...

Matt Loehrer (23:46)
sounds right.

Tug McTighe (23:59)
to like him, everybody seems to like him, the mom and dad, they all like Miles, but he's just insufferable. He's already been late. So there's a series of scenes that are before this, where a lot of our, you've talked about it before, that where we're just showing what's happening. We're not saying much. There's not a lot of dialogue, but we get a lot of information about who this person is and what his life's like. And it is not pretty. He's late. He's a liar. says, I'm not supposed to be there.

I'm on the way, then you see him taking a shit. He's like, I got to do this. He's running further late. He's doing the God damn New York Times crossword. He's supposed to be picking up his friend for this week. But you get a lot of story and a lot of description of who he is without any exposition, without being told anything, without any lines of dialogue. His superintendent says, you got to move your car. You're blocking the.

Roofing guy, sorry, he moves his car. He's parking illegally all over the place. Just you get to see who he is right away. And then he goes, like I said, he goes and picks up Jack. They all like him all miles. And the fiance is like, come and taste the cake. You've got such a great palette. And, you know, so there's just all this stuff and he's just insufferable. And then, right. So we learned he's a school teacher, an unpublished author. He says, Hey, we got to stop by my mom's house. ostensibly to wish her a happy birthday.

Matt Loehrer (24:51)
Yeah, he's a loser for sure.

Tug McTighe (25:09)
He doesn't know how old she is, but he ends up stealing money before they leave. And then she offers him money, which is heartbreaking. And we're also, importantly, we're introduced to a ticking clock that we don't know yet is a ticking clock. Remember, they got a week in Santa Barbara County, and it says Saturday.

Matt Loehrer (25:10)
Right, some question.

Tug McTighe (25:27)
So then they stay the night with his mom, they wake up, it's a Sunday, and then we're off. So again.

Matt Loehrer (25:32)
Yeah, a little more

about the scene with his mom, because it does tell you a lot. He he wants to stop there and they spend the night. But you realize pretty quickly the only reason was for him to sneak upstairs and steal money out of her dresser. She's got a like. It's got an Ajax can that the bottom unscrews and he peels off, you know, $1,000 with $100 bills and then sneaks out of the house before she gets up.

Tug McTighe (25:45)
out of her what Ajax Ajax cleanser can or whatever.

And she's called her sister and they're coming over to go to brunch and all this, yeah.

Matt Loehrer (25:59)
Right. So, and he's like, no, no, no, just don't wake her up. So it's the kind of thing where it's a character where he is pretending to himself, like he's really not that bad a guy, but he's pretty bad. we get that at the beginning. And another thing is that when he's late to Jack's, Jack says the re I know the reason you're late is because you're hungover. So they don't need to tell us he's drinking a lot, because we already know that he is. So I like that economy. I like

Tug McTighe (26:09)
Yeah, what quite.

Matt Loehrer (26:25)
the way they don't tell you a lot, but you can piece it together and you have pretty good sense of this.

Tug McTighe (26:30)
Yeah, you are not confused about who he is and what's going on with him. And they've never, like, again, they haven't said much. So I thought really nice, really well written. So I think Thomas Hayden Church, his genius and his comedic timing shows up pretty quickly. He really loves Miles. And he's like, look, Miles, you got divorced.

Matt Loehrer (26:35)
Right.

Tug McTighe (26:49)
I know you've been depressed. Are you seeing the shrink? Yes. Are you taking Xanax? Yes. And low for pram. And he's like, well, fuck that Xanax.

Matt Loehrer (26:57)
Yeah, Thomas Hayden Church improvised the phrase, you need to get your bones mooched. And, Payne liked it. So he kept it in. And even though Jack's a cad, right, you know that, you don't, still think he's pretty likable. Like he's funny in a way that Miles is, you've already kind of determined is kind of a, kind of a loser. And you're not sure if he's really somebody you want to root for. So it's conflicting.

Tug McTighe (27:07)
Yep.

Yeah, and I think it

is clear that Jack really loves Miles. He really cares about Miles. ⁓ So yeah, so again, Payne, he delivers these characters that you sort of not want to like, like you said, you can't help yourself. So let's take a break there on stuff you don't like and talk about stuff you do like. And that's gonna be our first.

Matt Loehrer (27:24)
Yeah, I think so. They're genuine friends.

Tug McTighe (27:42)
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they get back on the road. Miles wants to spend the week relaxing, drinking good wine, enjoying good food, playing golf. But Jack says, I'm going to cure your depression over your professional failures.

divorce by you getting a sex partner. And of course for Jack it's easy. He's a good-looking guy, he's a semi-famous actor. Miles is not good-looking, he's not an actor, he has zero confidence. In fact he has a spit bucket full of anxiety at all moments and self-loathing. So it's a tough go for Miles.

Matt Loehrer (28:46)
Yeah, I'm kind of irritating for him too that this good looking actor, know, famous actor who's been on TV and soap operas and commercials is telling him, you just find a woman and she'll have sex with you.

Tug McTighe (28:55)
Yeah, you just

walk up to a girl and talk to her and that's all you gotta do.

Matt Loehrer (28:57)
As though Paul

Jermadi's just got, is like, beaten him off with a stick, so.

Tug McTighe (29:01)
Right.

We learned that through conversation, Jack is scared about getting married. His wife's or fiance's father has a business that He's going to join that company. So he's anxious about this. He's like, I love her, but I'm just worried that I'm not going be able to act anymore, et cetera, et cetera.

So then we cut to these scenes where Miles is in the center in his valley. He's an I don't know how to pronounce onophile, enophile.

Matt Loehrer (29:30)
Sure. A wine lover.

Tug McTighe (29:30)
He's a wine lover.

Yeah, he teaches Jack how to taste wine. Again.

Matt Loehrer (29:36)
So that's one of my favorite scenes. Because Miles is so pretentious. He's like, is there, I'm sensing notes of asparagus. Is there a nutty, eat them cheese? And Jack's like, I don't, I don't smell the cheese.

Tug McTighe (29:45)
Is that a, right, Tastes pretty, tastes

pretty good to me. He says, he says, I don't know, tastes pretty good to me about a hundred times. And then.

Matt Loehrer (29:54)
And then

then Miles says, are you chewing gum? And then they just cut. They just cut away from that.

Tug McTighe (30:00)
Miles has been through this

five minute long spiel about the legs and the color and the tone and the notes because are you chewing gum? God damn.

Matt Loehrer (30:06)
That was amazing.

like he's got dentine in while he's chewing this stuff. Drinking, drinking stuff. Right.

Tug McTighe (30:11)
Yeah, right. This is probably Cinemini or something. ⁓

So they go to the hitching post for dinner. And we see Maya for the first time. And she's like, hey, Miles. He goes, yeah, I know her. I've seen her in here a lot. And he's like, dude, she totally digs. And again, he's like, dude, she totally digs. Yeah, she totally digs you, bro. So she comes after her shift. They're drinking at the bar.

Matt Loehrer (30:25)
The genetics are out from across the room.

Tug McTighe (30:33)
And she sits down and says, she says, Hey guys, having fun. And they go, yeah, why don't you join us? And this almost knocked me off of my couch. She pulls out a cigarette and says, Hey, you mind if I smoke? And they go, Nope, don't care. And I am just like, Jesus, Matt, remember when people just smoked in bars and restaurants and offices, and this was four.

I distinctly remember when bars were filled with smokers. And then it just ended, but it feels like so long ago. It wasn't that long ago.

Matt Loehrer (31:03)
No, it wasn't. I remember here in town, was, you know, we're in Kansas City, so it's all these suburbs that are connected. know, it's Lenexa and Overland Park and Olathe and Leewood, and they're all around each other. And once one went, it was like dominoes. And it was kind of where, like part of me, libertarian me, is like, how dare they do this without asking the people? And the other part of me is like, it's nice that I don't have to wash my clothes every time I

Tug McTighe (31:25)
Yeah,

right for sure yeah, and and it was it was and it was the of course it was the fear You're gonna put all these bars out of it. No, not a single bar went out of business cuts smoking They just smoked outside. They still drank their beers. They still drank their beers

Matt Loehrer (31:28)
So I could see both sides.

No, they smogged outside. But there were a lot

of things about this movie that really grounded me in the time. Miles's car, ⁓ Miles's, all of the wardrobe felt very early 2000s.

Tug McTighe (31:47)
Yeah, the Sabra, yeah.

Yeah,

I mean, anymore, right? When you see anybody with a weirdo flip phone, like that puts it in a timeframe for sure. So Jack, she's sitting there and Jack's like, dude, she likes you. He's like, you're crazy. And of course, Jack is trying to get miles laid. So he says,

Matt Loehrer (31:58)
Yeah, it's reality.

Tug McTighe (32:08)
Hey, did you hear Miles's books getting published? It's not getting published. It's just a consideration. But he tells her, she's like, that's great, et cetera, et He's just trying to help him get her attention.

So then we get the title card Monday. Remember, we have a ticking clock here.

Matt Loehrer (32:21)
Right, so They go drinking during the day and they meet a woman named Stephanie who's pouring wine at one of the vineyards and she's attractive, that's Sandra ⁓ So Jack arranges a double date for himself and Miles because Stephanie knows Maya,

Tug McTighe (32:38)
And Miles is pissed. because he's just a big fat baby, and he's mad at Jack for picking up these chicks. Because he doesn't want to deal with it. Yeah.

Matt Loehrer (32:46)
Right. But it's gonna happen, right? Yeah, and I think

he's afraid of what might happen. So that's the end of Act 1.

Tug McTighe (32:53)
Yep.

Right. Right. So the act one, right. So it's a break into two in act two. So we've got this Jack and Miles is the A story, their partnership. And then the B story is this Miles and Maya and a little bit of Stephanie, but mostly the Miles and Maya relationship. I did check when he goes, he goes, okay, now listen, when we get in there, I just want you to be your normal humorous self.

Matt Loehrer (33:08)
So you had a laugh out loud moment.

Tug McTighe (33:19)
the guy you were before the tailspin. Do you remember that guy? So the fact that his best friend is like, remember the guy you were before the tailspin? I want you to be him because I liked him So I thought that was great. and, then this is also the very, very, very famous scene that we will, discuss here as we go through this.

Matt Loehrer (33:29)
That was pretty good.

Tug McTighe (33:38)
So then he explodes on Merlot here, which again, as we will get into, tanked the Merlot business for over a decade because this movie was so popular and Miles was seen as

Matt Loehrer (33:39)
That's it.

Tug McTighe (33:50)
such as as an authority figure i guess on the wine but we'll talk about that here a little bit

Matt Loehrer (33:53)
That's the only time he says it. He says it on one time. It never comes up again. Crazy. Awesome.

Tug McTighe (33:55)
only says it that one time. Yep. there's, a lot

of great chemistry between Jack and Miles. Again, they're friends. Jack cares about him. Miles cares about him. Right. That's why Miles is pissy. Cause he's like, dude, I thought this was going to be us. And now you're bringing these girls into it, which, which again, I get is a little annoying, but, there's, there's, he wants, right. He wants miles to move on with his life after his divorce. And then they have this funny scene where he's like, he runs out of the, he grabs the ball and runs out of this.

Matt Loehrer (34:08)
I think so.

Tug McTighe (34:20)
winery and chasing him down and he's talked about Pinot noir before and then they stop in the vineyard and he sort of reaches out and caresses this bunch of Pinot noir grapes and so see this, you'll get to this Pinot noir idea here as we go along. But it's really funny. And again, the date is going great for a minute. And Miles is being the person he was before the tailspin.

And tells him, Jack tells him, do not get too drunk.

Matt Loehrer (34:47)
Right? Don't, don't screw me on this. Don't sabotage me So of course, knowing he said that, Miles gets drunk and he leaves to extensively go to the bathroom. But he, he got up, he got on a payphone, didn't he? Another, wow, you don't see that much anymore. So he gets on the, right.

Tug McTighe (34:59)
And then what does he do, Matt?

Payphone!

Miles doesn't have a cell. He borrows

Jack's cell later.

Matt Loehrer (35:08)
Right. So he dials up his ex-wife, Victoria, because Jack has told them that she's remarried and that her new husband, Ken, is coming to the wedding. So he calls her up and I think he says that he thought maybe they could, there was something left, they can get back together. But he's pretty horrible. She's like, don't call me when you're drunk, because I don't enjoy this. And he's just kind of a jerk, in his defense, he's pretty...

Tug McTighe (35:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yep.

You're drunk. my god, again, we talked about this.

Matt Loehrer (35:33)
pretty hammered at that point.

Tug McTighe (35:35)
Yeah,

right. He tells her, I'm not, okay, you come, I'm not going to come. And he's the best man. Right. So you come, I'm not going. You can be with Ken and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And, and you know, That's how my dad was when my dad was drinking was it would be, and that scene cut a little closer to the bone because my dad was awesome. Like Miles was awesome.

Matt Loehrer (35:41)
right.

hangs up on her.

Tug McTighe (35:57)
until a switch flipped and he wasn't. And then he was a dick. I just thought that was a really well played and portrayed that kind of guy who gets drunk is the life of the party until he is not the life of the party. Very much so.

Matt Loehrer (36:09)
That felt genuine to you, I guess.

Or not.

Tug McTighe (36:14)
So they go

over to Stephanie's house. Let's take this party back to my place.

Matt Loehrer (36:18)
Right, the ladies go to the bathroom and they come back, they recommend heading back for little post party.

Tug McTighe (36:21)
That's right. So doesn't take

long before Stephanie and Jack go back to her room for coitus and leaving Miles and Maya alone. But they're really vibing here, Matt. They're connecting over wine. She's very knowledgeable. He's very knowledgeable. They both have been divorced. So they have a lot of genuine chemistry. He says, wow, we can really have this. she goes, mine's not really a collection.

Matt Loehrer (36:30)
right?

Tug McTighe (36:46)
I don't have that many wines, but I have this and it's my favorite. Right. And he talks about this 61 Chevelle or Chablier or whatever. Yeah. And she's like, Holy shit, really? Isn't that peaking? And this is a nice piece of foreshadowing. Isn't that peaking right now? And he goes, yeah, I've been saving it. She's like, for what? And he goes, well, it was going to be my 10th anniversary. But she goes, you got to open that thing now, man, pretty soon or it's going to start degrading. ⁓

Matt Loehrer (36:46)
I like what you're holy grail, right?

Shovel block.

Yeah, I think she says

the special occasion that you're saving it for is when you open it. That's the occasion.

Tug McTighe (37:14)
Right. ⁓

Matt Loehrer (37:16)
I feel like they concentrated some great screenwriting into these monologues

Go ahead, yeah, what does he talk about?

Tug McTighe (37:22)
this is a really, a great moment where they're connecting and they're both talking about wine and they're talking about the, he loves Pinot Noir and she says, why do you love Pinot Noir so much? it's a hard grape to grow. It's thin skinned, it's temperamental, It ripens really like, he's talking about himself. He says, it's not a survivor like Cabernet.

Matt Loehrer (37:42)
Yeah, and she has right after that in response, a great bit about why she loves wine. And it's kind of sexy and it's, and he just blows it. Like he's got this like served up to him on a silver platter and he blows it. It's probably the reason she was Oscar nominated

Tug McTighe (37:49)
Quite.

as Mike Myers did in Wayne's World, the gratuitous Oscar scene. But it's really well done.

Matt Loehrer (38:00)
And now.

The director later said he didn't think, this is inexplicable to me, he didn't think she deserved as much credit for the delivery as she got. Which, why would you say that? Like, just say she, like, she nailed it. So that was a great scene.

Tug McTighe (38:15)
Don't say that, just say wow, she really nailed it.

So again, she's 100 % hitting on him. He is so awkward he can't tell. He kisses her awkwardly. It's not at the right time. He misses moment. I got the dum-dum chills. They go their separate ways, which I think is about the midpoint of the film. This is Miles's false loss. He had a chance to connect in a real way with this woman. And yes, he's a fucking loser. And yes, it was disappointing.

Matt Loehrer (38:31)
Yeah.

He calls himself a loser.

loser.

Tug McTighe (38:43)
of course, Jack and Stephanie are just tearing the plaster off the walls in the other room. he's got it. He's feeling even more like a bonehead. Yeah. And hey, it's important. They're leaving. And she said, want to read your manuscript. And so he gives it to her. It's in two giant boxes. And she goes, no, you remember how to there in the separate cars.

Matt Loehrer (38:51)
Yeah, and he's going out by himself, so.

Tug McTighe (39:04)
She goes, you remember how to get there? And he goes, yeah. She goes two rights and a left. Yep. And then she turns left to go to her house. He goes right. So that'll come back. The turning left and turning right. So, ⁓ yeah.

Matt Loehrer (39:13)
The two boxes was funny. He gave her the box

and she said thanks. Like she thought that was it. And then there's another one. Yeah. Here one second.

Tug McTighe (39:18)
And then it's like a thousand page novel. ⁓

so Tuesday, Jack, what does he do? He blows off their golf game to hang out with Stephanie, pushing Miles a bit deeper into his hole. There's a montage of Miles being by himself and he's fucking clipping his toenails at one point, which is just a really odd depressing choice. He walks in on Jack and Stephanie having sex in the hotel room. He's like, get out, get out, get out.

Matt Loehrer (39:35)
you

I

left out one too. He just walks in and there's Thomas Hayden Church's bare ass just puffed away. ⁓

Tug McTighe (39:51)
Right,

not our last male nudity.

Matt Loehrer (39:54)
No, there was a lot more nudity in this movie than I expected and it was all dudes.

Tug McTighe (39:57)
Yeah. ⁓ so now he comes, he comes down to the bar to meet miles, Stephanie has to leave and he's like, I think I'm falling in love with her. And miles like, are you crazy? Jack's like, want to postpone the wedding. He's like, are you crazy? He goes, let's move up to the, the Sammy and as Valley be closer. He's like, we'll move up here. We'll buy a vineyard. You'll design the wine, et cetera. I can come. And again, it's just this, he's scared of getting married. He's met this woman and now he thinks that is the future.

Matt Loehrer (39:59)
was not excited about.

And really stupid because I've been, a lot of this movie reminded me of situations I've had with people that I've known for a long time and not necessarily recently, but I've been that friend to the person with the stupid idea. Hey, let's just, or the drunk idea, like the non thought, just completely brainless. Let's all, why don't we all move here and we can start a bar and live upstairs and we'll never have to get married, that sort of thing.

Tug McTighe (40:48)
Right,

right.

Matt Loehrer (40:49)
It's just, and you're like, you know you're not gonna do this, or it's just pointless and stupid. But you're making me go, why am I up? I have to go through this with you. ⁓ Irritating.

Tug McTighe (40:52)
No, it's two in the morning, Michael. Stop!

Right. Right.

So Jack is really hanging out with Stephanie. Now we meet Stephanie's daughter and her mom. that's Stephanie Pharisee as Stephanie's mother. That was our first, one of our first That Girls of Cinemas. Miles, after that's over, he heads over to the Hitching Post to see if Maya's working, but she's not working that night. He gets drunk and walks back to hotel. We cut to Wednesday. Now that we're starting to pick up steam, right, we're halfway through.

The boys did that this time they're going golfing and Jack is trying to convince him. He's like, she really likes you. Stephanie says so. Jack still being supportive of Miles, his book. He goes, well, you haven't heard from your agent yet. So don't you think your negativity is a little premature? Right. That's both a Mark Twain and a Seneca quote about worrying is the debt you have to pay twice.

And then there's a really funny bit where they're golfing and they're just talking and not playing and a ball flies through and they're like, Jesus Christ, those guys fucking hit into us. So they look up and the guy's like, hurry up, we're waiting. And Miles like, and he puts down a ball on the tee and he shoots, hits it and it goes right and hits their cart. And it's just this funny golf that you don't do that obviously. But ⁓ again, there's just.

Matt Loehrer (42:02)
Now, apparently,

his form, Paul Giamatti's form was so poor that they couldn't actually get in. Yeah, he was very.

Tug McTighe (42:09)
left a lot to be desired, as it were.

So they're walking through the clubhouse and we get another that guy. Jack says, they're being loud, and he says about Maya, I mean, don't you want to feel that cozy little box grip down on your Johnson? And a man and his son over here, and the guy yells at the two of them. And that guy who got mad is Phil Reeves, who's been in a lot of Alexander Payne movies.

Matt Loehrer (42:23)
You

Tug McTighe (42:31)
including about Schmidt election. was the principal in election. He was in central intelligence 13 going on 30. He just, he was a regular guy. He was just another that guy. He was on parks and rec as the city manager of Pawnee. Just a great that guy. And again, pain brings him back and back and back and back.

Matt Loehrer (42:41)
Yeah, I remember from Parks and Rec. Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

I love that.

Tug McTighe (42:51)
You go.

Matt Loehrer (42:53)
So the four of them spent the day at wineries. had a picnic, know, Jack, Stephanie, Miles and Maya. Miles and Maya go back to her apartment and they eventually get together.

There's a nice call back there. Her car turns left toward her place versus right towards Miles Hotel. Did I say that right?

Tug McTighe (43:10)
Okay,

Matt Loehrer (43:11)
instead of turning right to go back to his place, he turns left to go to her place. They walk up the stairs together at the door. They kind of stop and then I he puts his hand on her shoulder. She turns and she brings him inside. ⁓

Tug McTighe (43:23)
Yeah, he's

sort of not like a little massage, like just does a little massage and then the door closes and the camera pans to house and it's dark and then we see the, slowly get light. So we know they've spent the night together.

Matt Loehrer (43:35)
That's kind of sweet. And it feels natural. It feels like and you feel good about miles. You're like, good. Maybe you turn to quarter. Maybe it won't blow up in the third act, right?

Tug McTighe (43:37)
Yep.

Right, but we know from our deep dive into film structure and plot points that it's probably gonna fall apart. But yeah, it's all gonna work out that Thursday, then the next day, we have a great montage of Miles and Maya at this street fair. They're laughing, they're chasing wine, they're growing closer, then they're sitting under a tree, and she says something like, hey,

Matt Loehrer (44:01)
It's great.

Tug McTighe (44:10)
There's this tasting up at Florgemel Winery on Saturday. It's a little pricey, but if you were interested, I'd be into it. she goes, you could just stay the weekend. And he goes, no, we got to be back on Friday for the rehearsal.

Matt Loehrer (44:23)
He says, what rehearsal? And I laughed out.

Tug McTighe (44:25)
And my God,

I laugh out loud at his just, he, it's right there in the palm of his hand and, and, and his face. ⁓ yeah. And she is so mad. Rightfully so. She's I'm disgusted by you. She plays this scene. Great. She reveals like, look, I'm trying to pull my life back together.

Matt Loehrer (44:33)
He knows he fucked it up. He's like, his eyes go wide. that was great.

Tug McTighe (44:49)
My own divorce man, this is hard, know how hard this is you should know better and he goes well I'm not Jack and she goes no you're you're worse like you know all this like he's trying to yeah She's not buying it. This is

Matt Loehrer (44:54)
Sure.

I thought it was very much

a Richard Pryor from Superman 3 where he's like, I'm not with them Superman. He's like, well, you're a fool of me. ⁓

Tug McTighe (45:07)
I'm not with

them. I love how you tied into Richard Pryor. So that's going to be end of act two where all is lost. Maya hates Miles. Miles spilled the beans. Everything is fucked. again, in Miles's douchebaggery, he hasn't told Jack that he told Maya. So he thinks everything's copacetic with Stephanie.

Matt Loehrer (45:21)
Right. Right.

Yeah, I think

it's great.

Tug McTighe (45:27)
So Jack

and Miles pull in this winery that Miles hates. He's like, Frass Canyon, I'm not gonna go there. ⁓

Matt Loehrer (45:32)
Yes, the word frass

means insect excrement, literally. So, not a good one.

Tug McTighe (45:36)
very good. And they cut around

the winery. The wine is boring. They've got boring t-shirts and hats. It's just that, And it's super crowded, so it's all corporate. Miles just hates it.

Matt Loehrer (45:44)
Yeah, everything's bad.

Tug McTighe (45:48)
So Miles has taken up our cell phone and he goes out and he gives his agent a call and she says, I'm sorry, it was rejected. just don't, they love it, but they don't know. Right. She says all the things they would say. They love it, but they don't know how to sell it. It's great, but it's this, it's that, right? And then she says, I just don't, I've tried everything. I don't know that there's a market for this book. So he comes in, he's depressed. He pesters the wine pourer, for a full glass.

He's like, it's not a bar, but he goes, just give me a glass. And he gives him a taste. goes another right. He slugs a couple down and then he wrestles the wine bottle out of the guy's hand. It spills all over him. And then he picks up the spit bucket. For those of you who aren't wine tasters, You're not supposed to be drinking a, know, 25 small sips of wine all day. You're supposed to swirl around and take then spit it out. So it's filled with people's wine spit and he just

pours it all over and he's drinking it, makes a huge scene. It's disgusting and it's...

Matt Loehrer (46:37)
post.

That was my third

LOL. I laughed out loud and it was hilarious and also disgusting because that thing was full of wine that had been in people's mouths and he drank a bunch.

Tug McTighe (46:46)
Yeah, really good. It's like at

least three gallons of spit wine. ⁓ Yeah, it is all over, right? So after this scene, he and Jack are talking, he says, I'm not a writer, I'm a middle school English teacher. And then Miles goes, he goes, like, I can't even kill myself. Like Hemingway, you know, he goes, you can't kill yourself without being published.

Matt Loehrer (46:54)
No, it's on his head and his shirt and his mouth.

Tug McTighe (47:11)
And then goes, Hey, what about what about that guy who wrote a Confederacy of Dunces? That guy's name is John Kennedy, John Kennedy tool. He goes, Hey, he killed himself and look how famous he got. He's like, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Loehrer (47:16)
J.K. J.K. to all.

That's gonna make him feel better. But that was really good writing. It was a funny exchange, right? He's

like, this will make you feel better. You could kill yourself and people might know who you are after that. Yeah.

Tug McTighe (47:31)
Might get to know who you are.

So then obviously, Maya told Stephanie, she comes up on her motorcycle. She beats the crap out of Jack off screen. You see her just pounding him with the thing. Because he's been saying, I want to move here on a Be With You. want to open. Right. He's saying all this stuff. And so, miles takes Jack.

Matt Loehrer (47:48)
yeah.

Tug McTighe (47:51)
to the ER and leaves Maya an apologetic voice message. He says, look, the book's not gonna be published. heard from my agent. He really comes clean on the phone. This is him trying to grow. ⁓ Mostly comes clean, but he still doesn't tell Jack that he's the that told Maya. then Jack is all beat up with a thing on his face. And there's a moment where they're in the hotel room and they're watching the Grapes of Wrath.

Matt Loehrer (48:01)
Mostly comes clean.

Right?

You

Tug McTighe (48:14)
And it's

Peter Fonda doing the anywhere there's a cop beating a guy scene. The famous scene from Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath, which is not the feel good movie this summer either.

Matt Loehrer (48:25)
It didn't have grapes in it though. Maybe that's

Tug McTighe (48:27)
apparently they watch the end of the Grapes of Wrath and they gotta go get a bite to eat. So they go to this like barbecue rib joint and they're getting ribs and Jack's chatting up the waitress Cammie and she goes, God, you look familiar. And he goes, do you ever watch One Life to Live? And she's like, oh my God, you're Dr. He's like, Dr. Derek Summersby. And so that was, you learned he was on a soap.

And he's just like, I'm gonna get, Miles is like, dude, you're not, we just went through this. And he's like, no, I'm gonna take that waitress home. So he's just.

Matt Loehrer (48:55)
Yeah,

his face is all beat up. And and it's in a this is not to insult the waitress. Objectively, homely, I would say not a lot to it. She's a Waffle House waitress and he's just going to dip his wick wherever possible.

Tug McTighe (48:57)
He's- He's black and blue!

Yeah, yeah.

He does,

yeah, he's full sociopath now.

Matt Loehrer (49:14)
Yeah, absolutely.

Tug McTighe (49:16)
So cut to Friday. Miles is sleeping. Jack's pounding on the door. Miles opens the door. Jack's naked. He's like, man, it's freezing. He's run all the way home from Cammie's. Yeah, yeah. He goes, man, that's at least three clicks. I used clicks. He goes, yeah, I know I ran it. Twisted my ankle, too. And because Cammie's husband came home.

Matt Loehrer (49:17)
You

again.

like miles, right? Four miles or

Right.

Tug McTighe (49:38)
and caught them having sex. He's like, he wasn't supposed to get home till six in the morning, so Miles is disgusted by Jack. So disgusted, he just starts laughing uncontrollably at who Jack is and what he's dealing with in the whole situation.

Matt Loehrer (49:47)
Right?

Because

wasn't it like 545 in the morning? Like you weren't supposed to be up till six.

Tug McTighe (49:53)
Yeah, it's like, right.

It's like four or five in the morning. Yeah. Um, and, and the big problem is he left his clothes there and he left his wallet there and J and miles like, so what we'll call the cards. goes, no, the wedding rings were in the wallet. So what tell her they got stolen. No, they were specially made. She had them made there. have dolphin designs and our names in Sanskrit or some shit. Like he doesn't even know. Um,

Matt Loehrer (50:18)
So I thought

this was amazing to me because, ⁓ I felt like throughout this movie, it felt kind of one way, like Jack's the successful one and Miles doesn't really have anything to offer him, like a sidekick. Like he's just doing a favor by being his friend, but Miles doesn't really contribute much. And here we're in a situation where when they get there,

Tug McTighe (50:20)
He's like, I'll fuck you, I will fuck you. No.

Matt Loehrer (50:37)
Jack can't do it. He's got to go in the house. He's like, I can't do this. And Miles is like, yeah, Miles steps up and he's going to do it.

Tug McTighe (50:42)
I, yeah. And my, was like, I'll do it. I'll, right.

So he sneaks into the house, Cammie and her husband are now having sex because she's such a dirty girl and he caught her with another man and they're sex talking, which is horrifying, and Miles is crawling around trying to find the wallet. He finds the wallet, they notice him, ⁓ he runs out, and then Cammie's husband comes straight out the door. That, for another sin of Mrs. First, at least 20 seconds of full frontal malnutity.

Matt Loehrer (51:03)
This jumps up.

you get him from the front door all the way to the car and the actor who I

Tug McTighe (51:15)
And then as the

car pulls away, we see him out the back window. It's good stuff.

Matt Loehrer (51:19)
yeah,

he's flopping all over the place. It was not attractive. The actor was MC Ganey, who has been in a lot of things. He was Swamp Thing in Con Air, the pilot. ⁓ But I knew him best from If Did You Watch Justified at all, which was awesome. Let's see all of it. Yeah, he's amazing. But he played a Bo Crowder, the patriarch of the kind of crime family from the beginning. So

Tug McTighe (51:28)
Okay?

I've seen some of Justified. I like Timothy Oliphant a lot. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So just great.

Just a funny, funny, funny series of bits here. So they're driving.

Matt Loehrer (51:45)
It was really,

really graphic. You saw everything. Yikes.

Tug McTighe (51:49)
Yes, very much so. So they're

driving back to San Diego and Jack is like, hey, why don't I drive? No, I'm good. You rest. No, I feel like driving. And the reason he wants to drive is because he wants to wreck the car so it can look like he goes, put your seatbelt on. And this is he drives into the tree scene. And then, right, right. And then they.

Matt Loehrer (52:02)
Right.

Not super fast, it just kind of drives into it at maybe 15

miles an hour.

Tug McTighe (52:13)
They

decide, this damage doesn't look like... And then they put a brick on the running and it misses the tree and goes into a ditch. And then that's a great over the shoulder shot. That was really funny. That made me laugh. ⁓ So then he gets home to Christine. He's warmly received by her family. he says, don't leave.

Matt Loehrer (52:23)
Right?

That made me laugh too.

but she needs to see the car.

Yeah, because she needs to see it for proof.

Tug McTighe (52:39)
And then Miles goes, well, how come

I'm not hurt? And he goes, easy. You were wearing your seat belt. So he told him, the seat on. Very sweet. Right. Right. Right.

Matt Loehrer (52:44)
Which was kind of sweet, right? Like he was looking, he didn't want his friend to get hurt. I thought that was great.

And I felt like there was, they could have easily been, especially Miles, could have been mad at Jack. They could have been mad at each other. Well, they both could have. They both had a reason and they just weren't, you know?

Tug McTighe (52:56)
He has a great-

He

had a great moment in the car when he sees them waving at him and he just kind of like that knowing smile. He gave his best buddy. like, guy, well, he may not be much, but he's mine. Yeah, it's nice. Yeah, that's right. So cut to Saturday. It's the wedding. Miles runs into Victoria, meets Ken. And again, Jessica Hecht. We talked about her already.

Matt Loehrer (53:13)
I don't He ain't heavy, but he's my brother.

Yeah.

Tug McTighe (53:24)
Then Miles is sort of, just growing. I'm starting to accept that I'm okay and she's okay. And then she's like, I can't drink, I'm pregnant. Just loses this shit again. ⁓ So he is now making a decision. He's gonna leave, not go to the reception.

Matt Loehrer (53:34)
sure.

Tug McTighe (53:40)
All the cars are turning right to go to the reception. That's going back to his hotel where left was Maya, and it shows him turning left. So that's the third time. Three, as you know, symbolic of completion. And then we see him in like a burger joint, and he's drinking his bottle of wine, his 61 Chateau Cheval Blanc out of like a styrofoam cup because she told him.

Matt Loehrer (53:53)
Mm-hmm.

Tug McTighe (54:07)
the occasion you were saving it for is when you open it. And I believe that is his moment of, I'm going to be a better person. I decided to do something right. And then... ⁓

Matt Loehrer (54:15)
Yeah, and a rite of passage. It's like I'm putting that. Yeah, this was going to be my wedding

wedding anniversary wine. That's not going to be at any. For sure. That was the expensive bottle of wine. That was a four thousand two to four thousand dollars and a mix of Cabernet, Cabernet, grapes, grapes and what? Do you know? No, Merlot.

Tug McTighe (54:22)
Yep. And I'm... This is for me. Yep. ⁓ So... Yes. Yes.

Pino? Nope. ⁓

Merlot! Even better!

Matt Loehrer (54:39)
Yeah, that's

that's the whole shtick. So that's what his famous bottle is. It's a blend of Cabernet Franc and Portlum creams.

Tug McTighe (54:42)
Excellent.

So there he goes.

we see time has passed. We don't know how much he's teaching in school. and then he gets, goes home, gets a voicemail from Maya on his answering machine. one message by the way, not 10, five, one. And she says, I just finished your book. I loved it. I did all that really happened. my God. It was so great. You've got to keep writing and Hey, if you're ever.

Matt Loehrer (54:58)
Hey, who else is gonna call it?

Tug McTighe (55:08)
If you're ever in the neighborhood, come and see me. So we see him driving to wine country and he knocks on my store and then we cut to black. And again, you've got to remember, right? That he described Pinot noir as haunting and brilliant and thrilling and subtle. And he explained that it was a difficult grape to grow. It's thin skinned and temperamental and it needs constant care and attention. It can only grow in specific locations with a nurturing grower.

Right and you were pretty sure in the middle of the movie that we were talking about miles being the grape And and maya being the nurturing grower and now we know for sure it is. Yeah, so really really neat Wrap up here

Matt Loehrer (55:44)
Yeah, and I think based on her message, I think the letter kind of got her attention, but it was reading the book. It was reading his book that she really sympathized. She talked a lot about, didn't know all these things happened to you, this sort of thing. It must have been so hard for you, that sort of thing. So even though his book wasn't published, if he hadn't written it and she hadn't read it, he wouldn't be with her. So it was necessary and useful for that reason alone.

Tug McTighe (55:53)
100%.

Right. Right.

And I like to believe they got together and I really like that they didn't show it. I don't need to button it up. I'm good. can let my own brain sort it out.

Matt Loehrer (56:14)
Yes.

Yeah, if you go on Reddit, which I don't recommend to anybody to ever do, there are people who believe that at the end he killed himself and that him ascending the stairs to go to Maia's was really him ascending to heaven because he was dead, which just tells you that people on Reddit are stupid. Right? No.

Tug McTighe (56:23)
Ever do?

There is zero text or subtext that would suggest any of that. So I

reject it fully. Fucking Reddit. Yeah. So let's talk quickly about how this one scene, I'm not drinking any fucking Merlot, tanked the Merlot business. Upon the film's release,

Matt Loehrer (56:45)
Yeah, I think the internet the internet was a bad

Yeah, break it down.

Tug McTighe (56:58)
Merlot sales dropped 2 % while Pinot Noir sales increased 16%. A 2009 study by Sonoma State University found that sideways slowed the growth in Merlot sales volume and caused its price to fall. But the film's main effect was more interest in wine. A 2022 study in the Journal of Wine Economics found that sideways caused a reduction in demand for Merlot and it increased. I mean, it's incredible, which led

California winemakers to grow more Pinot noir grapes in unsuitable land and blend those grapes With other grapes that were better suited To be Pinot wine. So just a lot of shit, right? It's so funny

Matt Loehrer (57:35)
I would say in the 20 years since this movie came out, I've learned to enjoy wine quite a bit. Maybe too much. One of the best wines I ever had was a California Merlot. It was called Dynamite. Dynamite Merlot. ⁓ And I have seen, to the extent I've been paying attention to last 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, more red blends. Because I think it's not like those Merlot grapes went away.

Tug McTighe (57:45)
Here go.

Matt Loehrer (57:57)
they took those Merlot grapes and instead of making the Merlot, they made a red blend and blended it with some other grapes. So I think it's just other varietals. And it's also funny. There were these anecdotal stories about when this movie came out, people would go to bars and say, I want a Noir. And they'd get it and they'd drink it and say, I don't like this at all. They just didn't like it to the point that vineyards

Tug McTighe (57:59)
That's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, they didn't they didn't know what they were getting

Matt Loehrer (58:23)
reacted by taking Pinot Noir grapes and blending them with Syrah to make something more palatable, a little sweeter, a little fuller. And then people would drink it and be like, hey, this is pretty good. I am. I'm the Miles. I guess you're the Jack and I'm the Miles. I don't know if that's good.

Tug McTighe (58:32)
I'll tell you what, is your- I'm Jack T. or Miles here. I love what you're doing.

That's right. I'm happy

to be Jack. And now they have in Santa Rita, have a sideways fest, which I'd be happy to go to. Now I do want to say, look, we just glossed over it. But if you want to hear the full story of this, one of our favorite podcasts is called Decoder Ring. It's a show about cracking cultural mysteries, right? Each episode takes a cultural question, object, or habit.

Matt Loehrer (58:48)
We should go. I'll go with you.

Tug McTighe (59:03)
Examine its history tries to figure out what it means and why it matters

So just search up Decoder Ring and the sideways effect and check out what else Willa Paskin is doing over there. It's a great podcast. Almost as great as our sponsor, Little Bear Graphics. So look, if one more person tells you to just use the template or suggest a piece of clip art for your logo, if they suggest that Comic Sans or Hobo was the right typeface,

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but in keeping with the theme of our pod. So, all right, what do you think? Any closing thoughts?

Matt Loehrer (59:56)
Lovely.

yeah, I have a few. So this movie was 126 or 127 minutes long, and it felt every bit of it. Not, not saying it was too long. I'm just saying it was long. So my children would not watch this movie. Any, Jen, you know, any younger than a gen Xer would not watch this movie. I thought it changed directions a couple times. The wallet scene, especially. It felt like point break to me. Like,

Tug McTighe (1:00:06)
Definitely slow burn.

Right?

Matt Loehrer (1:00:24)
Point Break was like two movies in one. This was two. I'm like, the movie's done. whoa. No, we're going to break in and steal a wallet now. Now we're going to crash our car. So I thought it was great. It was a slow burn. I don't know if today's younger moviegoers would have the patience for it, but I thought it was clever. It was poignant. And above all, it was well written. And I can always appreciate a well written story.

Tug McTighe (1:00:24)
Yeah, at least two, yeah.

No, no, got an action scene. Yeah, an action sequence.

So I think I know, but I'm gonna ask, sin hit or sinna miss?

Matt Loehrer (1:00:48)
It was a sin a hit for me. I'm glad I watched it. It made me want to drink wine more.

Tug McTighe (1:00:51)
Yeah.

Yeah, perfect. And you don't need a reason.

Matt Loehrer (1:00:54)
No, no, or a Riesling.

Tug McTighe (1:00:57)
On that note,

what is going to be our next movie?

Matt Loehrer (1:01:01)
I think we should do Isle of Dogs, which you have seen.

Tug McTighe (1:01:07)
I've seen most of it almost all the way through. I don't know. OK, well, great. the great, yeah, let's do that. The great Wes Anderson, One of his animated stop motion. I'm sure we'll delve into that. ⁓ Whether it's stop motion, whether it's

Matt Loehrer (1:01:09)
well, I've seen, I've seen none of it any of the way through. Should we talk about what we think we know about it or not?

Okay, so yes, Wes Anderson, I believe it's animated.

Okay, that's all I know actually.

Tug McTighe (1:01:30)
whether it's stop motion, whether it's stop motion plus computer, probably somewhere in the middle. I do know it features his steady repertory theater. Bill Murray's in it. Jason Schwartz is in it. There's a handful of the people that are in it as the voices. And it's apparently about an aisle of dogs.

Matt Loehrer (1:01:40)
great.

I would guess. love bringing back actors. Maybe. Maybe. I love Fantastic Mr. Fox. When my kids were younger, we watched a lot of animated stuff.

Tug McTighe (1:01:48)
Unless that's just a clever title. Unless it's a misdirect. So, no.

So do I.

Matt Loehrer (1:02:00)
Our favorites are Lego movie, Across the Spider-Verse, stuff like that. Just love it. So I love the animated movie genre. I love Fantastic Mr. Fox, so I'm excited to see what he does with this.

Tug McTighe (1:02:10)
Me too.

Me too. All right. Well, that's it. That's a wrap. Thank you for listening. Again, if you like what we're doing here, we're trying to grow our audience, and we need you. So please tell somebody who might like it to listen to it. Go follow us on Instagram and the Facebooks And the Twitters, the Xs, send us an email at cinemassage.gmail.com.

And listen, we've still got our contests going. you share, like a post or send us an email, share it with somebody who might like it, say, hey, dummy, go listen to this, because you like movies. We're going to give away some Little Bear graphic swag. So again, thank you for being here. Share it with a friend. And always please subscribe. And please do leave us a rating wherever you get your podcasts. really does help us grow the show. I will stop plugging it and wrap it up. I'm Tug. Thanks for everything, everyone.

Matt Loehrer (1:02:41)
You'll like it. I promise.

to Matt.

All right, bye bye.