Beyond the Box

Silent Choices, Loud Lessons

• Monica Kelsey

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SPEAKER_00:

This is Monica Kelsey from Beyond the Box. We are in the studio today with a guest that I have been wanting to interview for quite some time. It is a story like no other. Welcome to Beyond the Box. Thank you for coming. I am so excited to have you. Thank you for having me. Have been wanting to interview you for so long because I, you know, we hear all the stories of, you know, the good stories. Um, but not a lot of people are willing to come and talk about the not so good stories that that some moms find themselves in. And so thank you for being brave enough to come here and allow me to interview you and also for telling your story to hopefully help someone else.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So for those who don't know who you are, um, if you want to give a brief description of who you are and why you're so important to Monica Kelsey.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, my name is Michaela. I went to prison in 2016. Um, I gave birth to my son, and unfortunately, he did not bake it. So I went to prison for neglect of a dependent. Ended up going to prison for about six years and was released about three years ago. Um, and ever since I've been working trying to make sure that other people hear the message and other people know that they're not alone, but also to understand it's okay to ask for help and not to be ashamed for it.

SPEAKER_00:

I uh that makes me smile, you know, knowing that you're willing to put yourself out there because not not a lot of people do, you know. And uh so so let's go back. So let's go back um so that people can kind of understand uh why your perspective matters so much. And so take me back to the day in question where um you gave birth to your son. So kind of what led up to that. Um, you know, when you found out you were pregnant, um, just kind of give us a background.

SPEAKER_01:

So I was a pretty good student. I was the captain of my volleyball team all the way through college. I seemingly looked from the outside having it all together. And unfortunately, that was not the case. Um, I didn't know how to ask for help. I was struggling a lot, had a lot of pressures. I was, you know, doing things that, you know, normal college people do, um, and making those mistakes. And along the way, I started getting bigger and I just it didn't occur to me. It didn't register. Um, once it started registering that I was possibly pregnant, it was a little too late. Um, I was in the dorm room by myself. Um, my mom called me like a few times, but I didn't answer. And I just remember my body was like, you you have to push. And that's when everything just flooded. Um, I remember bits and pieces after that. It gets really hazy. I was in and out, but I made a decision. And it ultimately led to my son dying and me going to prison. And that decision changed everything, not only just for me, but for my family, the people that knew me, the officers, everyone. It it changed. So um, did anyone know you were pregnant? I think everybody had assumptions, but you know, nobody really likes to ask. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

So were you because we all see the stories of these, these, these women that are like, I didn't know I was pregnant, and we're looking at these women thinking, I don't know that she's pregnant either. And they're like days away from giving birth. Is that what it was like for you? I mean, was it like no one really knew, but possibly maybe?

SPEAKER_01:

I think everybody had their assumptions at some point, and just nobody said anything. Not to me. Um, and I think that's hindsight is 2020, especially when you're when you look back, you're like, I I was like, there's no doubt you could you could tell pictures, you could tell. But in the moment, I wasn't thinking of that. I was thinking of, oh, where am I gonna, what am I gonna do? What job am I gonna take? Where am I gonna go? How am I gonna pay for my bills? All this, all the stuff of being a senior in college and your senior year is about to be done.

SPEAKER_00:

So you were playing volleyball pregnant? Yes. And um, and a straight A student. Almost, yeah. Almost, and and so you literally were living the college life as in um, like just kind of going with life, you know, um, a senior year, and then you've you kind of ignore the fact that you're pregnant, um, and give birth. Yes. And so take, let's go back to that moment. Um when did you know you were in trouble? Well, I'm not not trouble as in legally trouble, but when you were at home and you knew that you were in trouble, like, like baby was in trouble. I'm in trouble. I need to reach out for help. I need to call someone.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, as soon as I saw, like I was able to move a little bit and I was able to see between my legs the sack at the time I didn't know what it was called, um, coming out. And I was like, oh, I'm in, I'm in trouble. And I don't remember, I must I did, but I don't remember calling 911. The last thing I knew, somebody was in the dorm room pounding my chest to make sure that I was still alive. Um, I lost a significant amount of blood. Um, but the um umbelical cord was um I don't remember doing it, but I guess I did. The umbilical cord was tied off. And that's when my son um passed away.

SPEAKER_00:

So um you were in the bathtub. Yes. You were in the bathtub. And so when they got there, what what do you remember from what the first responders were doing? I mean, were they like in a rush with your son? Like, did they know that they were behind the eight ball? I mean, what what exactly was going on and what was going through your mind?

SPEAKER_01:

I remember hearing a first responder say, Oh my God. And I don't know what that was. And I was in and out. Um, I couldn't keep my eyes open. Um, I had somebody, this person had a cast on. She was pounding my chest to make sure that I was gonna stay awake. Um, and then I remember they they took him out and he was in I don't know if you've ever been in the back of an ambulance, but obviously it's white, but there's a pile of towels and no one had to tell me anything. I figured it out. And I think in my mind at that point, it was like, I don't know, how did I get here? Like, why how did I get to this spot? Why didn't I say something? And you start thinking of all the possibilities and everything. And the next thing I remember is they were like, you need to call your parents. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't memorize phone numbers.

SPEAKER_00:

Where's my phone?

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And so I was like, Well, my dad's working midnights, I don't even know what his number is, but I could tell them where he was working. And as they're stitching me up, they're calling my dad. And I I couldn't even get the words out. I was in tears. How do you tell somebody who you respect and you love that I I've made this huge, awful mistake? And I've never seen my parents hurt like that. And as a parent, you want to protect your kids, you want to take that pain away. And I just there was nothing they could do. I made the choice. It has nothing to do with how they raised me. I love my parents. I love my sister too. It has nothing to do with that. But I made this choice.

SPEAKER_00:

So do you have a pretty close family? Oh, yes. So your mom and dad. So if you would have reached out to your mom looking back now, would she have been like, I'm here?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. All of my family would have been. But at that point, you're you're married, you're like, I can't I can't speak for anybody else, but I can only speak for me. Like you just you're stuck. Um I don't know if anybody else has felt like that. Like you're just stuck. I I want to numb. I wanna I don't want to feel this. But unfortunately, feeling it makes it real. And so the the best way to deal with it is to numb it, right? Which is not the the best way to deal with it, it makes it worse. But at the point, you you don't you don't think that, right? You're you're 21, you're 18, you're feel like you're invincible.

SPEAKER_00:

Invincible.

SPEAKER_01:

And this just kind of lets you know like you're not as invincible as you think you are.

SPEAKER_00:

So let's go back to the hospital now. So you're um you're getting care, yes, um, which you desperately needed. And and you've learned that your son has has not made it. You've called your mom and dad. What's next? What what happens next? I mean, are the police in there? Well, what happens next?

SPEAKER_01:

So my sister stayed. They did question me. My sister stayed um with me throughout the night, which I was very grateful for. So they admitted you into the hospital. Okay. Yeah. Um, just so that way to make sure everything was as good as it got. Um, they allowed me to go home to heal. Uh, but I told my mom, I was like, I I gotta get help. I don't want to make, I don't want to delay this. I need I need something. Um, so they enrolled me in um behavioral health services and I started talking what little bits and pieces that I knew. Um, going through therapy, you learn that your brain tends to ice out things to protect you, no matter how much you want to try to remember. And my brain at that point was just on autopilot. Like it just didn't want to tap into what trauma I just went through. My body knew it though. Like you could, my body could feel it. And so um, they let me go home, they let me heal, they did the investigation. And a couple months later, there was a knock at the door, and that's when I got arrested.

SPEAKER_00:

So for two months you had no idea what was going on. No. So where was your son during this time?

SPEAKER_01:

To my understanding, they did an autopsy on him, and we were going to take get him buried. Um the funeral had home had him, and they even told me, like, you do not want to see your son. You do not want to see him. Um autopsy on a little one is dramatic. And I'm really glad that I I opted I wanted to see him, but I listened to the funeral director and was like, No, you you you can't Michaela, you you can't handle that. To hear somebody who's been around death a long time to tell me that I respected their decision. Um and so after we had the initial meeting, not too long after I was arrested. Um, I was housed in Elkar County for to me, it felt like eons, but it was probably only like maybe a week until I was transferred to Wabash, which is where my son, where I committed the murder.

SPEAKER_00:

Where because you were in college and in Wabash. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So um, so did then did they just hold on to your son then while the case was going on?

SPEAKER_01:

I honestly I don't know that part.

SPEAKER_00:

You don't know that part? Okay. Um, and so they transfer you from Elkhart back to Wabash. Yeah. What do they charge you with?

SPEAKER_01:

Um at first it was murder, and then I pled guilty to a level three felony, neglect of a dependent, resulting in bodily injury or death.

SPEAKER_00:

And you you pled guilty, you didn't fight it. No. You didn't fight it.

SPEAKER_01:

And you were sentenced to uh 12 years suspend three due nine um in prison. Um when I was sent, well, I was in county, um, I should say I was in county for about two years before I even set foot in the trial. Um, county was rough. Oh my bad. Rough county, county time is hard, hard time uh because you're idle. You can't really do much. You're sitting on your unit, that's about as great as it got. Any class that was available to women, I was happy to sign up and go, but it's idle time. Um, and during those times they were trying to get my meds figured out. Because I was on an antipsychotic med at that point, they put me in what was called the padded cell, which is the suicide cell. So for months, I was in this nasty green dress with velcro and a green blanket because they had to watch me. Um, because I did try after my son passed away. I did attempt. Um and I think that was what really hurt me. Um sorry. That's okay. As we call it. Just broke it. Seeing my grandmother. I felt not only embarrassed, but I felt ashamed. And I felt like, oh my goodness, Michaela, what did you do? How did you let it get this far? Um, but I remember I had plenty of time to think by myself and I didn't ever want this again. So what can I do to fix moving forward? What can I do to not come back to this place? And if I can come back to this place, it's so I can go out the front doors and not the side doors with handcuffs. Um, so having meetings with my attorney and going back and forth and after I pled guilty, um and not knowing when I was actually gonna go to prison because they only did prison runs on certain times. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna go to prison by myself. I'm not gonna know anybody. Um, luckily, two people, two other people were gonna go. So we ended up all going together.

SPEAKER_00:

That were in county, they went to the same prison.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Okay. Um, they they call it black box, which is literally a black box, and they're chaining you. So they chain your feet, your ankles, and then they chain your hands, and so your hands are like this. So you can't really move them anywhere else. Um, they black boxed us out and drove us to Rockville Correctional Facility, which was the intake at the time.

SPEAKER_00:

Is that down in Indy?

SPEAKER_01:

It's on the other side of it. I'm not very good with geography, sorry. On the other side of Indy, um, and it's the southernmost point, and it has like the one of the highest elevations. It's in the middle of cornfields, is basically. I haven't been outside in years. The only time I would go outside was to court, and that was it.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, so that was so you spent your whole time in Rockwell?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh no. Um, so you did intake and then they would figure out your levels, and depending on what level you were you were at, you would be either there or go to Indiana Women's Prison, or you would go um to the other Madison. I had a high level, um, not only because of my charge, but because of the my suicide attempt. Um, so I was shipped to, I say shipped, but moved, sorry, is the right term, moved to Indiana women's prison. And then we were housed in what was called the intake unit at the time, which was unit five. Um I quickly realized that my parents sheltered me a lot, which is a great thing. I'm very blessed that they had, but I learned a lot um going to prison. I learned by watching, I've learned, but I also saw some very great transformations happening too while I was there. But it it definitely was an eye-opener for sure. Um we had to do if you weren't assigned to a job, you had to figure out stuff. Um at the time, we had to figure out like laundry schedules. It was it was a mess. Um, but once you figured, once they assigned you a job, it was doable. It was hard.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, which prison were you at the longest? IWP, which is Indiana women's prison. And that is where? Um, that is in Indy. It in Indy. Okay. And that's where you spend pretty much all of the time after you were released from Rockwell. Yeah. Once they did their intake. Okay. And then um, so let's let's go to prison. So you get there, you are this family-oriented, you know, girl. I mean, you're what, 21 years old at the time? Yeah. And you kind of are probably shocked when you walk in there. I mean, you you can't imagine, I'm sure, or we can't imagine some of the things that happen in there. But you get there. Do you do you have anybody that's got your back? I mean, how long was it before you made friends? What what was it like in prison?

SPEAKER_01:

I am very reserved and I'm very um, I say not social, but I'm more of an introvert. Uh I like my me time. I can turn on the extrovert stuff, but then I get drained. Um, so for me, it was just watching. And I know that sounds really weird, but I just wanted to do my time. I didn't, it wasn't about anything else. It was just keeping my head down, keeping my mouth shut, and just doing my time. But then you you get to build relationships with people. Um, I ended up doing a program called Into Work. So that was a program in the kitchen. I don't know if anybody has worked in a kitchen, but 700 women to feed, it's not a fun task to do, but it did teach me a lot. Um, it taught me about my work ethic and it taught me about um how to balance things and how to move up in the industry. I started off in as a cook and then eventually made my way to like what would be equivalent of a manager and overseeing X amount of employees. So it was nice to have that experience. And then you also build the relationships with the people that you work with. You get really close with them, you see them every day. Sometimes you're you're in the kitchen 12 hours a day for very little pay. And so you have to make the time go by. You have to get along. Um, I didn't always get along with every single one, and they didn't always get along with me. But at the end of the day, we we were a very dysfunctional family.

SPEAKER_00:

So, you know, as you're talking, it's it's I don't know if you know this, but I was in the United States military for eight years, and so I had to do kitchen duty. So when you're sitting here talking about kitchen duty, I'm like sitting there thinking, yeah, no one has any idea. I was stationed aboard a ship. Oh, yeah, and so and so yeah, yeah, we're talking, you know, thousands of people eating, you know, lunch, dinner, breakfast. I re all I remember is I had to be there first thing in the morning, which was like 4 a.m. That's like craziness. You know, right out of high school, you know, I mean, I didn't really like getting up at all in the morning or somebody telling me to get up. And so, yeah, you you learn a lot in the kitchen and you you learn a lot of what you don't want to do for the rest of your life in a kitchen. Like I am not good cooking around hot stuff. Like, get me away from the oven. Like that is not me, you know. Um, but it does, you're right. It does it does teach you respect and it does show you um uh what's the word I'm looking for? Um, You know, the same thing every day, like routine, routine, routine, yeah. And so, you know, that was definitely a plus for me because I needed that right out of high school. Um, which you were pretty much right out of high school. I mean, just in college for a couple of years. But um what's the craziest thing that happened in prison, whether it was good or bad, the craziest thing that you remember? I mean, could it have been a con, you know, somebody that giving their life to Christ, you know, or some fight or, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

I think for for me, the good, we'll we'll focus on that one. Um, we had a great chaplain, Chaplain Blackburn. Chaplain Blackburn has also done time.

SPEAKER_00:

Ah yes.

SPEAKER_01:

And is this a man or woman? Man.

SPEAKER_00:

Man, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and he definitely helped tremendously in many aspects. So thank you, Chaplin Blackburn.

SPEAKER_00:

Um if you're watching, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh and he had this great idea to do um, it's called worship and flow. People, it's not hustle and flow, it's worship and flow. Where one Saturday, and DOC approved it, so that's even more amazing. One Saturday, we would bring like a bunch of different women. They would have like a ticket, they have to bring the ticket in in order to get in. And they would have like painting, they would have art, like artists, they would have um dancing. Some of it was put on by people residents at the facility. Um, and he decided to make a mime group. Yeah. Um, and I was in it, and it was called I Am because it's all mimes, and he thought he was so funny for the meme. I can't tell you that shifted for me. Um, I was not really a Christian growing up. I knew of God, but I only knew him through my grandparents. Um, I knew he existed, but I don't, I would highly encourage if you've never been to a service inside of a facility to go. God has moved so many mountains, and I'm getting goosebumps talking about it.

SPEAKER_00:

So many mountains in that apple for for people that are in prison.

SPEAKER_01:

So many. Um, I felt somebody get healed. I've seen it. I've seen so many people turn their lives to Christ. And some people think, oh, yeah, you went to prison, you got the the prison um prison uh faith. It may have started that way, but it it transformed as I got deeper into my word with God. Um, he would help us, he would help us read the Bible and understand it. He would do a lot of worship services and he would say, If you if I can get you at the chapel, you're coming to the chapel. Um, so that was great to have that opportunity. And it helped. It kept me out of trouble. I was spending time with with God every morning. I was doing Bible studies. I was really trying to understand what this word was because I was like, I don't know half these words. This is the King James Version. Die, that I don't speak like this. So he would help us like digest it and to apply it. And that changed for me. Um doing that and reading all the stories, reading some of the most horrific events and seeing what God can do and change those horrific events into into great triumphs. And I was like, huh. Looking at the parallels in my life. I was like, I haven't done that, but I've done something similar. And trying to work through those emotions and making sure, like, I didn't I didn't want to come back here. So if if this works, I'm gonna give you a shot.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

I had um an interesting enlightenment, I guess is what I call it when I was in county. I was by myself in that padded cell, and I was like praying to him. And I said, if you are as real as everyone in my life says you are, can you just help me? Can you just tell me what I need to do? And that light never goes off in a padded cell because you're on 24-hour abs observation. And there was an outline of a cross in the light, and I was like, Well, guess it's real. I guess you're yeah. I was like, here's my sign, I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and you could feel it. Um, I wasn't always a hundred percent Christian. I don't think everybody is.

SPEAKER_00:

No, there's always a time when somebody gets there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. And I was trying, I was, I was learning, I was moving stuff around and trying to understand. And then um, my time in the kitchen was coming to an end because my time was up. Like I was, I, as you may have known, I was burnt out. I was there for two years. I was there through COVID. Oh, on top of that, I was I was just done. Um, and so there was another uh program coming in to the facility at that time. They just started it not too long ago, and it was a computer coding program called The Last Mile. And uh I was skeptical to get into it because I was like, yeah, computer coding, what am I gonna do with that? Right. When am I gonna do that? I didn't even graduate college. But for me, there wasn't a whole lot of things that I could do to keep myself busy. I didn't have enough time left on my sentence to do like the longer terms, not longer programs. Yeah. Or I already passed my high school equivalency, so I can't get my GED and I don't have enough time for college. So I was trying to figure out like what can I do? Because I don't want to sit on the unit all the time. I want to do something. And when I applied for the last mile, I was in the middle of COVID and we we had we didn't have COVID yet on the in the facility, but lo and behold, like two weeks after we signed up, we got COVID. So um, I didn't know what I was signing up for, but my classroom facilitator would go by all of our units and give us like these thick packets of stuff to read. You didn't have anything to do when you were on the unit lockdown besides play with your tablet. And I was reading this and I was like, I have no idea what any of this means. And he was like, trust the process. And I used to not like that saying. I was like, what process? This is madness. Like, I don't understand. He goes, just trust the process, Michaela. So I would read and take notes and read and keep taking notes. And then eventually, when classes back open back up and we got to the computer and we started learning how HTML and CSS and how to design these websites and how to take a picture and actually make it look into a website and doing all these things, I was like, Oh, I can do this. This is kind of neat. I was like, oh, I can I can do this. And the nice thing about the last mile is about 60% of TLM is uh just as impacted. They've sat in the same seats that I was sitting in. We at the time there was somebody who was actually from our facility. She was she was employed by the last mile. And so she came in to visit and she sat in the exact same spot that I sat in. And she was like, if I can do it, anybody can. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna try this thing, we're gonna figure this out. And I that program taught me a lot too. Um there was definitely roadblocks, there's definitely times when I was like, I want to quit. I'm done. This is not for me. But it taught me to persevere and it taught me to think outside my box. And um, I was always taught when you get too comfortable, you stop growing. And coding for me was like a puzzle. And I'm not very good at puzzles. Um because I want to get done fast and not take the time to actually find all the pieces. I'll be the one that's jamming the wrong piece into the wrong part. Um, but it taught me to be patient. Because if you want change to happen, you're gonna have to make a few mistakes, make a few trip-ups, but lasting change can continue. Just be patient with yourself. We got um like this this bag. I know it seems pretty funny, but there was this bag that we got um and it said girls who code. And I was like, what's that for? So I asked my classroom facilitator, he goes, There's actually a company out there called Girls Who Code that teaches coding to to girls all over the world um online. And I was like, Nuh-uh. They do. He was like, Yeah, they do. And he pulled up, he he saw, saw the website and he told us about it. I was like, I'm gonna work for them one day. Well, and here you are. I did. I ended up working for Girls Who Code for a few summers.

SPEAKER_00:

But now you work for the company that actually was in the prison. Yes, prior to you leaving. Um I think it's amazing because clearly you believed in them then, you know, so much that you now work for them out. Um, so you know, and we were talking about this before we went uh live here. Um, the uh people who have been in prison for a very long time come out not knowing a whole lot about technology. And so being able to learn that in in um prison, I think is an advantage to them so that they can keep up, you know, when they get out. Okay, did your did your parents come and visit you in in prison? Were they there a lot? You know, that's one of the things with JJ when he went to prison, you know, we were there every weekend, every weekend, because we didn't want him to not have anybody and not think that he was alone, you know. And so I think that's really important. Um, so you get out. So um now let me ask this question because I think this is this is something that I ask all over America to everybody that I meet, and you'd be surprised at how many people don't know about the safe haven law. Did you know about the safe haven law in March of 2016?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I didn't I didn't know anything of it. I didn't know anything of it until I was in prison. Um, someone wrote me and actually mentioned Linda Sinako. And I was like, who's that? And they they were like, Linda did your your son's funeral, which I I knew nothing about. Um my parents did share it with me, but I think they were just more concerned about me and they didn't want to were like, yeah, the your your son was buried. Um, and I didn't know anything about Linda. Uh so my friend sent me a book, um, and it was Linda's story. And lo and behold, uh Linda and I started writing corresponding. Yeah, writing, and I got to learn more of her story, and um, she got to learn a lot more about mine. And I wasn't anticipating I'm being released. Um, I was called back to court around my birthday, and I was like, okay, this could be one of two things. Yes, you get to go home, which I'm not anticipating, or sorry, you're denied. Um, my lawyer decided to um ask for early release. I hadn't gotten in trouble. I got maybe like one short form, um, which for that there was no time taken. I just had to do extra duty, which was fine because I slept through count one time. Um, but I was like, it's a long shot, but I'm I'm willing to try. Um, and we were really close to finishing our final projects and they told me to pack up. And so I'm packing up and I'm getting ready to go to court. And I was super nervous. Um, because I he everybody else went first and they got to bye-bye, they left. I was like, oh I'm all by myself in the courtroom. Okay. And the judge does ask a couple of questions, and I just remember sitting there and I'm like, okay. Yes, sir, no, sir. I was real nervous. And the next thing you know, he told the bailiff to to uncuff me. She's going home. That was my birthday. That was the obviously the Was your mom and dad in the courtroom? Oh, I turned around and hugged my mom. I was so excited. Hugged my dad too, and everybody else in the courtroom that I that I met.

SPEAKER_00:

So why did he let you out early? Do you know?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh I I don't know. Um, I never got really in trouble. I buckled down and I really liked coding. I was I'm really good at it. And it was six months early, but six months is still six months.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and I just remember they had to book me out and I had um, we call them good sports bras, don't judge me. Um, but the state ones that you get are not very good. And I just uh as soon as I got back to the the the cell that I was in, I was separated from everybody else. There was only one other person in my cell. Um, and she had to go back to prison. I had good socks, I had good, a good bra. I remember I was like, take it. I'm I'm going home. Like I can care less what I walk out of here with.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

You can take it. Um, I got sent home with my state coat, all of that fun stuff. Um, and I remember walking out finally. I had like 30 minutes to go up the stairs to to probation. I hadn't ran in a very long time, but I got it and I got up there in time. Um, and I just remember like I'm I'm I'm almost done. You're free. I'm almost I'm almost free. Uh probation was a was another beast to get through, but um, I was lucky. Um, I had family who s supported me that forgave me, that never really questioned. And all my family was there. Plus some of the women that I met while I was in prison that helped me with my faith. So and Linda was there. And that was the first time I ever met Linda. So it was really nice to to put two and two together and to have that friendship with her. She never judged me. None of them did. So to have those kind of friends and those relationships, I was like, you know what? I want to make it easier for other people like me when they come home. People that don't have a family to go home to, they might not have a place to stay or close or any of that. So what can I do? To start to start helping. And in the position that I'm in, I get to help. Um I'm blessed that I'm able to help. But my family was there, yeah. And they did visit me every week. We played card games um well every other week because that's just how it planned out.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

My grandparents would visit me on the off weeks that my parents and my other grandma couldn't come visit me. And we would play card games and um have a bunch of fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, you know, it it shows you how Christ takes your weakest moment and turns it into something good for others. You know, it's almost like a launching pad. Like, like he he takes something that was done to you or you did, and he puts something in front of you and allows you to just run with it. And so you get out of prison and you want to do what you can for others. And I I love that. I love that because I think that just shows one, it shows your heart. And two, I think that's what Christ wants us to do. You know, it's like we he wants us to take um those experiences and turn them into something good. And so going back to the safe haven law, though, so you did not know until you got into prison about the safe haven law.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

Had you ever heard of the baby boxes?

SPEAKER_01:

Not until one came up on TV.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

So I don't know if you know this, but uh we launched baby boxes in Indiana in April of 2016, exactly one month after um your son had passed. And so um if the safe haven law, if you would have known about the safe haven law back then, would you have used it?

SPEAKER_01:

I would like to say yes, but honestly, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

You don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know. My mind frame back then just wasn't okay. It wasn't it wasn't healthy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and I think I hear about it on the news all the time. You you find uh another girl put her her baby's corpse in her closet. I am no place to judge anybody. I don't know what's going through their mind when they're they're going through that. I remember um because my nickname was BK baby killer when I was in for those that didn't la like me, that's what they called me. And most of the the women were they're pretty harsh about it. That's okay. You weren't there, you don't know the story, you don't have to explain. And I remember a few of the the women that I was getting really close to was just like, don't talk to me about her if you're just going to say what she did, what you think she you know. You don't know the whole story, you know what was said on the TV and you know what's in the court papers, but that only tells you a fraction of what was really going on.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And it just it's hard. Um because when I was in uh county for two years, you kept seeing the same women go in and out of those bars all the time. Like, what the heck are you guys doing? Right. But that's the power of addiction. Sometimes they don't really have a choice because they they have to get high because they don't want to feel what the come downs, they don't want to be withdraws, they don't want to deal with all that. But then they've had something traumatic that has happened to them that causes them to go that way. And you hear the worst of the worst stories while behind bars. But you've also see what what God can do when you're at your worst. I mean, most of the women that I was incarcerated with, I I don't talk to, but I watch. Like we're on Facebook. I see them, I'm really excited to see them, and they're doing great. But that was a lot of struggle to get them there. Like they are not the same women that first went through those doors of IWP or Indiana Women's World.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the same goes for you though. Yeah, you're not the same person either. And so I I think that that's one of the things that that Christ uses, you know, He He changes you, especially when you come to Christ, you know. Um, the the great thing about coming to Christ is you don't know what's in store because kind of like Isaiah, what is it, seven, nine? You know, here am I, Lord, use me. What what do you want me to do? You know, and it's like you can ask that question, but don't be surprised when it's not what you want him to do for you, you know? And so I think for, you know, for when Christ comes into the lives of those who are broken, amazing things come out of it if you will just allow him to use you for the good of what he has called you to do. You know, I mean, I look at my own story, you know, and of of being abandoned as an infant. And I, you know, I wish I could change my beginnings. I wish my birth mom did not have to go through everything that she went through. But I look back now and my life was planned from the very beginning. You know, um, I graduated high school, joined the United States military. I needed that to get where I am today, you know, and that's where I got my love for firefighting. And so I became a firefighter mnemetic when I got out, and now I'm in fire stations every week. And so Christ knew exactly where I needed to be and when I needed to be there. And so he kind of laid it for me. But when I asked, here I am, you know, use me. What do you want me to do? I had no idea that I was going to be building baby boxes and traveling the country. You know, it just, it's, it's, it's a blessing. Um, but sometimes you look at it as a curse, you know. And so I appreciate you being so open and so honest and just allowing your heart to show because there's so many people that don't allow that to happen. And we're missing out. We really are missing out on their story, on Christ's story that he once told. And for you, I'm sure it's not easy coming in here and talking about this day, this day that has probably been seared in your mind that you see over and over and over again. Um, but for us who are looking from the outside, we see redemption. We see somebody that's been transformed, that that has taken a bad situation and turned it into something good. Because now you are working to change the lives that are incarcerated because you've seen a problem, you know, and then advocating for the safe haven law. I mean, you were at one of our blessings. Yep. You know, it's like, it's like this, this is one of those times where you can shine, you know, you really can. And even though this happened in your life, it doesn't define who you are. It just basically says, I'm human and I made a bad choice. And I wish I could take it back. But now I'm going to use what Christ wants me to use this for. And, you know, it's like I often get on a stage and I say, you know, my biological father's a rapist and I don't even know my ethnicity. And, you know, it's like me getting on a stage and talking about my beginnings and my birth mother's story. It's like, I don't want this to be my life. I don't want to be the person standing up there saying this, but this is what Christ has called me to do. And so uh I see him working in you. I do. I see um I can't wait to see. I can't wait in five years to to bring you back for another interview to see where you're at then because I think you're gonna just bloom, you know. And and, you know, you know, we were talking before, you know, a lot of people that watch the podcast know about my son. You know, they know he went to prison. They know that his best friend was killed at the hands of of our son. And and uh it doesn't define who he is, it makes him human and it makes him understand that he made a very bad decision on a day that he wishes he could take back every day, you know? And so we understand you, we get you. Um, and I appreciate you, and I really appreciate you coming on beyond the box. If someone is listening to you today, though, if you could just talk to someone that is ignoring the fact that their belly is getting bigger, what can you say to them that could possibly bring them some hope?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I would say you're not alone, first of all. Because most people tend to think, well, it's only happened to me. Not true. You're not, it's okay, it's going to be okay. But I would also advocate if you're not comfortable keeping your baby, use the safe haven line. Um to use the safe haven baby boxes if there's one around. Hospitals, fire stations, all of them are safe. Please use them. And if you're scared, parenthood is scary. I know I'm not biologically a parent. I mean my son passed away, but I see parents go, I don't know if I'm making the right decision. It's okay. It's okay to be human. It's okay not to be superwoman or superman. Your kids will still love you anyway. Don't make the same mistakes that I did. Don't think you have to do it all on your own. God didn't give us a community for no reason. He gave us a community so when the load gets too heavy for us, we can we can help somebody else. He's the one that will carry everything. The shame, the guilt. It does not matter how the baby came. You're gonna it's gonna be loved. But God has a plan. I remember he used to tell me, he goes, Everyone's got a chapter in their book that they don't like anybody else to read. But I didn't make your chapter for nobody else to read. I made it so I could shine. And I used to be like, I don't want that to shine, like that's the worst part of my history. But you have to think of all the greats. They've had a pretty bad history too. But that in those moments, that's what defined them as being great. And I didn't choose you by accident. You're going to be a great parent. This was not a mistake. It may have came by accident or by surprise by us. But that baby's no mistake, and you're going to love that baby. What?

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you, Michaela.

SPEAKER_01:

You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00:

It is an honor to know you. It really is. Thank you for making the trek to Woodburn, Indiana to be on Beyond the Box.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, this is Monica Kelsey from Beyond the Box, and there you heard it. Uh, one of our guests that wishes every day she would have made a different choice. God bless you guys. Thank you guys so much for joining us. If you guys would like to support Safe Haven Baby Box's ministry, go to shbb.org and make a donation today. God bless you guys, and we'll see you guys next time.