The House That Wisdom Built - EP 14: Kitchen Design & Appliances

In this House That Wisdom Built installment, Vince and Nathan dive deep into modern kitchen design—where to put the sink when your island doubles as the family table, how sculleries are turning show kitchens into entertaining spaces, and why that big beautiful range comes with real ventilation math (hello, make-up air). They weigh panel-ready vs. stainless, give a reality check on pot fillers, talk outlets, full-height slab backsplashes, hidden wireless charging, built-in coffee stations, and the unsung ergonomics (right-handed dishwasher placement!) that make everyday cooking feel effortless. Plus a quick BBQ detour: ribeyes on a Recteq with Lane’s rubs and a Miller Lite in hand. If your kitchen is on the remodel list (it usually is), this one will save you regrets—and maybe a few bucks.

What we cover

• ROI reality: Kitchen remodels routinely deliver the best bang-for-your-buck.
• Workflow 101: The classic work triangle (fridge–range–sink), when it still applies, and how scullery/working pantries are changing layouts.
• Island vs. peninsula: Where the sink really belongs now that the island is the family table.
• Ranges & ventilation: 36–48” ranges as the showpiece, big CFM hoods, and why make-up air kits matter in remodels.
• Panel-ready vs. stainless: Design vibes, durability trade-offs, and budget gotchas.
• Pot fillers: Useful tool or pricey necklace? (Spoiler: mostly jewelry unless you truly cook.)
• Backsplashes & outlets: Full-height slab looks, plug strips under uppers, sill outlets, and when pop-ups actually help.
• Countertop charging: Hidden wireless charging in stone—cool idea, with social side effects.
• Appliance strategy: Built-in coffee systems, appliance garages, warming drawers (and that closet towel-warming hack), fridge/freezer drawers, and why we’re doing fewer microwaves.
• Floors: Why site-finished, glue-down wood is winning kitchens again.
• Ergonomics that matter: Right-handed? Put the dishwasher on the right; trash on the left—small choices, seamless days.
• BBQ/Brews corner: Ribeyes on a Recteq, Lane’s Barbecue rubs (Pow Pow + Steak Supreme), and a humble nod to Miller Lite.

Pro Tips

• Start your interior design by collecting kitchen reference photos—the kitchen sets the tone for the rest of the home.
• Remodeling with a big range? Plan ventilation + make-up air early (it can change scope and cost).
• Love a tidy main kitchen? Consider a true working scullery with sink, DW, and secondary refrigeration.
• If resale is near-term, design for the next owner; if you’re staying, design for how you live.

Mentioned

• Lane’s Barbecue (Bethlehem, GA) rubs & sauces
• Recteq wood-fired grills (Evans, GA)
• Wolf/Sub-Zero smart appliance innovations
• Plug strips/“plug mold,” sill outlets, wireless counter charging

Building Brews & BBQ
Instagram: @buildingbrewsandbbq
YouTube: YouTube.com/@BuildingBrewsandBBQ

Hosts:
Vince Longo
longocustombuilders.com
Instagram: @longocustombuilders

Nathan Walters:
massarossa.com
Instagram: @massarossa

Produced by:
Michael Newman
michaelnewmanfilm.com
Instagram: @michaelnewmanfilm

Transcript

Vince (00:00)
I'm sure most of the people listening to this, if they're remodeling their home, their kitchen is on the list. That's usually number one. That's the biggest thing that we see, the calls we get to remodel a home is the kitchen.

Nathan (00:11)
they in every study shows it's the number one return on your money. Is the kitchen. You redo the kitchen. It's good. That is that number one returns your money. Biggest bank. Yep.

Vince (00:15)
⁓ yeah.

for your buck.

Nathan (00:30)
Alright, we are switching it up today. Vince does not want to do the intro. He wants me to do the intro because he wants you guys to feel the change up. Look at him. He's living the dream. Living the dream. What are you at? Did you just run the hundred? Yes. Alright. Welcome to Kitchen Design and Appliances and Building Brews and Barbecue. By the way, real quick, when saw us when we barbecued in these?

Vince (00:47)
I feel like it.

Or even had a brew. It's like, don't know, maybe we need to change the name. you talked about... Welcome to building, get your fix on. But no, did, yeah, we started off strong, right? We started off strong, but then we faded a little bit in terms of providing any brews or barbecues.

Nathan (01:03)
Welcome to building.

Yeah,

we, hey, I will tell the audience this though. We did do a barbecue last night of some rib eyes. Yeah. We're dynamite.

Vince (01:28)
Listen, if I could give anybody ⁓ a, I'm not gonna call this a pro tip. This is kind of like a barbecue pro tip. Sure. You know, I would say with the barbecue portion of it, I am a massive fan of Lane's Barbecue out of Bethlehem, Georgia. Yeah. Ryan Lane owns it. He's a spectacular guy. ⁓ They have some of the best rubs, sauces, you name it. So if you can go to lanesbarbecue.com, they're not a supporter.

Nathan (01:33)
Now call to pro tip.

Vince (01:59)
of or sponsor anything like that. just could be, but I absolutely love their, their different marinades and rubs. so last night we got a, we got a couple of rib eyes, thick about an inch and a quarter. We also got a strips in New York strip also about an inch, inch and a quarter. So nice thick ones. And, ⁓ we, we lathered them up. First thing I did is I got Lane's pow pow sauce. Love it.

You can use that stuff on anything. And I use that almost like you would a Worcestershire or what you say? Watch your sister sauce. ⁓ know, where you go the thick stuff, the W is the best for watch your sister sauce. And I just did both sides of them. And then I used Lane's Steak Supreme. And then they're AP, they're all purpose. ⁓

Nathan (02:35)
Watch your sister.

Vince (02:57)
⁓ gosh, I forgot the name of it. can you believe it? But they're all purpose rub, which was incredible. Yeah, it so good. And so we did both sides and the ends with it, and it stuck to that pow pow sauce and let it sit there. And then we put it on, I've got the, which I love, I know a lot of people are Traeger fans, right? In this net, but I love Rectech. They're an unbelievable grill. They also are made here in Georgia. Yeah. Kind of near Augusta. So if you wanna...

What's in Augusta? I don't know. think it's just only Rectech is the only notable.

Nathan (03:33)
Text

the only notable thing? Yeah, guess in a couple weeks we'll find out.

Vince (03:36)
Huh, interesting, especially because what happens in like September, October when this hits the air?

Anyway, we're filled with...

Nathan (03:48)
the

casting.

Vince (03:51)
But in Evans, Georgia, Rectac, and they make all their grills with high quality stainless steel. They'll last forever, parts don't wear out. I have their SmokeStone 600, you've seen that, that I make breakfast on and this and that. It's the first wood-fired pellet grill, but it's not the grill, it's actually the flat top, the SmokeStone. But I used their, the dual fire.

I love that, because on one side you can smoke and on the other side of the barrel, it's an indirect heat, but it'll get over 700 degrees. It got to a thousand. And so we seared those steaks. had the crisp on the outside. were 132 or so and we took them off on the inside. let them sit. It got up to about 140, 145. Perfect medium rare. It was unbelievable. Yeah.

Nathan (04:29)
When we had the lid open it was a thousand.

Unbelievable.

Vince (04:51)
Didn't want any sides, but my wife forced us to have some.

Nathan (04:54)
Yeah,

well we weren't going to have a wife there then the wife showed up so we had green beans. know, had some of that stuff. Tater tots, which we're doing.

Vince (05:01)
Taylor Tots.

They were delicious. ⁓ so anyway, I guess that if you say, hey, where's the barbecue series? That's it. And the two pro tips, go out and get yourself a REC Tech and go onto ⁓ Lane's barbecue website and order you some sauces and rubs and you are off to the races.

Nathan (05:21)
So you use lanes, I use a lot of meat church. good church. Well, yeah, he's out of Texas. So being from Oklahoma closer to me. we use a ton of meat church also just to bring in the bruise portion of it. We did have Miller lights last night. That's why we were.

Vince (05:36)
That's correct. Cooking.

That's correct. That was enjoyable. Very was a beautiful evening. it was. The stars were out. I gazed into your eyes. Pollen was out. Again, odd to have it out this late in the year, but...

Nathan (05:43)
Paulan was out.

Vince (05:52)
Podcasting. Anyway, we're in our series, The House That Wisdom Built. And I think we're past center. We're past the midpoint in the series. So today we're talking about, which a lot of people from the design world think is the most important. it is. It's the center of the home,

Nathan (05:54)
What are we doing?

The house that Ruth built. Yep.

It is we're talking about kitchen design and appliances. It's funny. We have a ⁓ customer that is ⁓ Their floor plans are close to being done We probably have one or two more passes on them I was talking to him yesterday about getting them linked up with the interior designer and they're like, okay What is it you know that we need to bring? What do we need to be prepared for to bring to this to your interior designer? And it's funny because like you said, it's the most important part of the home. I said listen starting with your interior design

I need pictures of kitchens you like. Let's start there. The kitchen as the heart of the home, usually, and you see this too, the kitchen kind of breeds the rest of the design through the home. Now, then you get into the master bath and you can change it, but the kitchen kind of gives how the feel of the home's going to be. So as you said, it's the most important, it's where we start.

Vince (07:07)
Yeah, and I would point out that the kitchen is the number one biggest place that we see design regrets. Yeah. In the way that they didn't take the time to plan it, lay out how they like to entertain, cook, anything that has to do with the day typically starts in the kitchen. Yeah, you get up and you're in your bathroom, but that's the place where everyone wants to hang out.

Nathan (07:17)
In what way?

Vince (07:36)
That's the place where you're hanging, you're talking to your family, you're cooking, you're sharing a meal. That's the, like you said, the heart of the home, but that is where I see the biggest design regrets because things weren't laid out properly. Things, didn't like the appliances they purchased.

Nathan (07:53)
Made

it smaller than they thought they, you know, they're like, we don't need it that big. Reduced a little footage, decided they didn't.

Vince (08:00)
That's right, things that are ergonomics, lighting. I mean, there's so many things that you can do wrong in the kitchen. And since that's the place you spend most of your time, and think about it, anytime someone wants to come visit you, where do they come see you? Or where's, you have a party, where is everybody? You have a dinner, where is everybody? I think the big kitchen is the reason why dining rooms have gone out of style. Yeah. But I think they're coming back. they are coming That's where I see the biggest regrets is a poorly designed kitchen for the way you want to live.

and how you entertain, whether it's your family, friends, loved ones, whatever. Agreed. All right, I mean, if we're gonna jump in and dive into kitchens, Nathan, let's talk about islands and peninsulas. You know, what are you guys doing in your islands or how do you lay out a kitchen?

Nathan (08:46)
man, so we kind of, start in the planning stage with the architect and the architect's definitely working on through how the homeowner says, listen, you asked me, if you do the triangle, you can talk about the triangle. Then we bring our interior designer in and yes, our interior designer usually talks to the, talks our customers through the triangle, through the workflow. Again though,

The way we have really set up our company is man, we are executors. I am an executor. We let the interior designer who yes, knows way more about the workflow triangle than I do. I know about it because we build it. But we let the interior designer usually kind of work that flow with the homeowner more than us.

Vince (09:29)
Gotcha. you know, are you, are you still, you know, back in the day, all the thing was the triangle, the kitchen triangle, are you still seeing that as something that you'd taken to consideration? And you know, the kitchen triangle is that triangular pattern that goes from your, your what? Your refrigerator, your cook up in your sink, right? And that's kind of makes the triangle. Is that still a big thing or is that off the table?

Nathan (09:55)
think it's still pretty natural, right? I think that it's still pretty natural that that, ⁓ that it flows that way, right? And I think, you know, you're looking, we definitely talk about it. I will say, I will say, I think the introduction of the scullery pantry is changing a lot of kitchens. We're seeing so much.

of kitchens almost be show kitchens and the work is actually happening in the big, the big walkthrough pantry in the back. We will have, what we're seeing a ton of is we will have a range. And then if we have a fridge and the dishwasher in the kitchen, it's all wood paneled, right? To look like the cabinets. Like generally speaking in our kitchens right now, the only appliance you can visually see is our range.

Vince (10:44)
Gotcha, yeah, and that's kind of that whole strategy behind the kitchen is kind of make it disappear with what all the people that are coming to visit you. You know, I mean, we see that a lot in the larger homes where we've got the scullery, you know, and it used to just be, hey, maybe a vegetable sink and maybe an old refrigerator, right? And then the rest is basically, what is a scullery? It's your pantry. Yeah, pantry, no.

The scullery is a fancy name saying we threw a couple appliances in That's right. Right. And so it's kind of evolved from, it was just the pantry with cat with tip, used to be wire, wire shelves, right? And then it's evolved to the pantry with some built-ins. Yeah. Now it's full and then it's full bone cabinets. Then it was countertops and at a minimum loaded up with outlets around. So you can take your coffee maker, your blender, things like that. blender.

Nathan (11:27)
Full blown cabinet.

Vince (11:40)
put it in there on the countertop and it's out of the way to now where it's getting bigger. We're seeing kitchens getting a little smaller. Yeah. So they can make more space for the scullery. And now we're seeing full size appliances that match the kitchen. Maybe not a 48 inch, but maybe it's a 30 inch or a 36 inch.

Nathan (11:54)
full size ovens.

I'm seeing, I haven't put many cooktops in, but we're putting in ovens, dishwashers, ovens, dishwashers, refrigerators, full sinks. I mean, everything's back there and as they're calling it, that's our working kitchen, working pantry. The other one's kinda, as you said, it's for show, it's for entertainment.

Vince (12:20)
That's right, yeah. And listen, I love it. it's just, you gotta remember, I always tell my customers, hey, everybody wants a scullery, everybody loves a scullery. It'd be great to be able to do all your cooking and stuff in there and then close the door when you have people over and your kitchen's nice and clean and ready to entertain. know, one of the big things that I also love about a scullery, right, that has a big sink and a dishwasher, putting a dishwasher in there, is the fact that

You you entertain nowadays, people wanna hang around the kitchen, you we talked about that already, or even if you're in the dining room, yeah, you clear the table and for along, you know, up until recently, all your dishes or whatever went into the sink or on the counter and nobody wants to look at that. And the worst thing you could possibly do when you're entertaining is your people are still there and you get, you start cleaning dishes. Yeah. And then it's like, it's over.

You want people to linger, you don't wanna make it. So I have customers that say, I want the scullery just to be able to take all of the dishes, dump them in there on the counter, close the door. And I can still have fun with the people that are over entertained. And it's not in anybody's mind. Cause even if it's not on your mind, if you have somebody over that, that's what they do at home, it's going to bother them that someone is not cleaning the dishes or that they're sitting there. And so that's one of the, it's almost like a drop zone.

Nathan (13:45)
for is it is after party. exactly what it is. What about though, when we're seeing a ton and my wife, my wife had to have it drew into our plan back in 2017 sinks in front of windows.

Vince (13:58)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously we do that when we can. Yeah. You know, if it looks into the backyard or front yard or whatever, absolutely. ⁓ Especially if you have a pool. Yeah. If you're putting in a pool, I 100 % try to urge the cabinet designer or the architect to say, let's make sure we get the sink on the outside because that's, you know, a spot that you'll want it, right? However, we see what we're seeing more and more.

is that the range becomes the feature. you know, our homeowners want a minimum 36 or 48 inch range. They don't want the, they'll opt for instead of a ⁓ cook top, which is just the top and then a separate ovens, you know, they'll do double ovens, which is more comfortable, right? Because you open the oven, it's at chest level or there. you're,

you've got more leverage instead of bending over with your typical big range to pull things out, right? But they want the showpiece. What is the showpiece? The showpiece is get those ovens out of your face. It's the 40 inch range with the two ovens and the vent hood. And they want that against the wall as a center line in the room. And a lot of times you need to put that on the wall because

Nathan (15:07)
the range in the vid.

Vince (15:20)
a lot of people forget that those big ranges require big vent piping. Big CFM's which is the volume of air that turns, that sucks the exhaust out. And so you put that in over that range and you need a 48 inch wide vent hood with net has a 10 inch vent duct. Well, try to run a 10 inch pipe through the joists of your house. You know, go to some other episodes and hear about open web versus TGI's and then you'll learn,

gosh, this does make sense. But you gotta get that giant pipe out of your house, whether it's out the side wall. And that's why most architects wanna make that range wall against an outside wall and the focal, which takes the sink out of play in an outside wall with a window. And second best place to put it is in the island so you can still face your guests, your kids or whatever, man.

Nathan (16:12)
We just have seen it's crazy. We've seen so much people and I actually get it fighting the island sink now because the island is kind of their breakfast table, right? Because like you're saying, Hey, dining rooms are coming back. But do know what is kind of gone is the breakfast room. The breakfast rooms kind of because these islands become oversized. People are there. I'm seeing so many of our customers be like, I really don't want the sink there. Cause this is where we do 90 % of our eating. Yeah.

is at this island and we don't, same as you're saying, we don't want to look at our dirty dishes. So it's a real conundrum because you only have so many walls. Yeah. You only have so many walls to like try to put these things on, but we, and it's funny in our market, we were seeing a lot of people fight the island sink. Yeah. Which was huge.

Vince (16:56)
That's right. And now you finding that, do you ask your customers and, know, ⁓ in for ⁓ our listeners, you need to ask yourself that question if you're designing a home or remodeling, you know, one of the biggest, you know, I'm sure most of the people listening to this, if they're remodeling their home, their kitchen is on the list. that's usually number one. That's the biggest thing that we see the calls we get to remodel a home is the kitchen.

Nathan (17:22)
then in every study shows it's the number one return on your money. that's the kitchen. You redo the kitchen, it's good. That number one returns your money.

Vince (17:27)
Yeah.

bang for your buck. Yep. Yeah. And I believe that. So are you asking your customers, how long you plan to live in this home? We do. Like we ask them that. We do. Because we got to really contemplate aging in place and how appliances work.

Nathan (17:47)
Yeah, it's really big. It's really big for us on a how we design. This is going to be completely different. If you, if you think you're going to be here for seven years and beyond, listen, let's do what you want. If you think you're going to be here for less than that, and this is you're going to be moving on, we need to design this with reselling mind, you know, and things like that. So yes, we're very big on, Hey, let's not.

over-customize something or do something like that. So yes, we're very big on asking that.

Vince (18:18)
Yeah. One thing that I always have to level set a homeowner for renovating for him is, you know, if you do opt for the large range and if you're renovating your home, we've got to ask the air conditioning company, the HVAC company about a, about a re, ⁓ a makeup air kit on and what is a makeup air kit? Well, simple, right?

Nathan (18:43)
makeup hair.

Vince (18:47)
That makeup air kit, so you're remodeling your kitchen. You decide to get a big range, which requires a bigger vent hood, bigger vent. More CFM. More CFM, so it's gotta be more powerful. But what is a CFM? Well, it's taking the air and it's ⁓ sucking the exhaust out. It's a bigger surface area, so it requires a bigger fan to suck more out of that 10 inch pipe. But that's also pulling the air out of that room. And so,

you have to have what's called replacement air. I.e. the makeup air kit. And what that is, it's a device that mounts to, it's like a damper system that mounts to the hood vent up inside the pipe, 10 inch pipe. That when it's in a sensor that says, okay, this turned on, so now this wire then has to go all the way through your house to your HVAC unit. So remember, you're gonna have more demo, more things like that, more cost.

I think those makeup air kits, even on a brand new house are four or $500. But in a Renault, it's more because you got to run that line back down the HVAC and you got to make sure that that HVAC can turn enough to replenish the air in that room quickly. has to balance or else you start to get, know, if you don't have one of these, here's what happens, right? If you don't have a makeup air kit to, and what happens is that fan turns on, it immediately turns on the HVAC system.

Nathan (19:49)
Yep.

Vince (20:14)
that might be off. turns it on and it pumps, it turns on the fan and pumps air back into that room to replace that air, to make up air. It's making up the air that's now being pulled out. Cause if not, the sure sign and sure way to tell if you have a makeup air that's not working is go ahead and turn on that vent over your age, over your range and see if it starts to shut doors in the rest of the house. It's sucking the air. That's one thing I'd say,

Nathan (20:39)
The air which pulls the door shut. Yep, that's right.

Vince (20:43)
Make sure you're taking it into consideration when you're doing that.

Nathan (20:46)
something you put on the list which is always great to talk about soft clothes. There's drawers, doors, all of them.

Vince (20:51)
drawers. Those

that slam. ⁓ So soft close is huge. How about, I know you touched on a little bit early, you got panel ready or stainless steel appliances. What are the pros and cons of each?

Nathan (21:05)
Man, for us, it's really design of the home. We've been doing so much ⁓ European traditional classic and stainless steel doesn't fit that. And so we have been doing so much panel ready and hiding the fridges and hiding the things. ⁓ But again, it's another piece of wood with paint on it, okay, that's gonna wear. It's got a handle that is screwed into it that at some point may get loose over time.

Vince (21:34)
And

you're yanking on those because they suck.

Nathan (21:36)
Cause to where your stainless steel last, you know, it lasts, it lasts, but really, really for us with the kitchens, sometimes pragmatic gets thrown out the window and it's really what fits the design.

Vince (21:49)
Yeah, yeah. And people think that, I can get the panel ready refrigerator for the same price as the stainless steel. Well, those panels get really expensive.

Nathan (21:59)
because it and it's the certain brands don't even make panel ready fridges. So you have to hear your if you're getting into panel ready refrigeration, you're usually stepping up into a more expensive brand of appliance.

Vince (22:12)
Hmm, interesting. I got an interesting question for you.

Nathan (22:17)
for me I probably can't answer it's probably something too hard for me.

Vince (22:20)
Pop fillers, yep, awesome or overrated.

Nathan (22:25)
Generally for looks only.

Vince (22:27)
so overrated.

Nathan (22:28)
I think they're overrated unless I would, ask my customers, do you cook? Do you legitimately cook? If you legitimately cook the pot filler and, and if it is a sink on a window, not an island sink, because usually the islands directly behind the range. Okay. Hey, you really don't. mean, yes, a pot filler is cool. You can also just turn around and fill it up in the sink. But if the sink is opposite and you cook.

A pot filler is good. I usually think it's like a necklace. a piece of jewelry that you put on that rarely gets used.

Vince (23:07)
Yeah, yeah, I ⁓ I'm in the camp of it being overrated. Yeah, you know, it's an expensive you've got the plumbing fee You've got those fillers are expensive

Nathan (23:17)
We tell people you're easily, I think they're shocked. We're like, it's 1500 bucks. Yeah, it is. They're like, what? I'm like, yeah, you're ground plumbing, you're top out plumbing, the fixture itself, installing the fixture. You're going to spend.

Vince (23:28)
The

tile guy or the stone to go behind it. And I honestly think that people are starting to spend more and more money on their backsplash in their kitchen. so You know, we're seeing the trend going away from tile to full slabs. slabs. You know, your countertop looks like it goes up the wall and then we're doing a special detail. we've got it like the range wall, we're doing a special detail on it. And you put a pot filler on there because they're on an arm that pulls out. Yeah. Right? So they never look centered.

because they're always all off kilter because of the way the arm is, right? And so a lot of times it throws off, you're drawing your eye to a filler. And that's what we always tell them, hey, if you're gonna spend all this money to have the really like a beautiful marble backsplash or some kind of solid stone backsplash, you know, if you're not truly, like you said, going to use this pot filler, all it's gonna do is take away from the money you spent and the simplicity and the cleanness of...

⁓ of your backs.

Nathan (24:27)
agreed for me it's it's legitimately are you do you cook because you know we have some people that legitimately cook a lot okay this this may make sense it's it's in the area it's easy to do look if you're not if you're not using your kitchen a bunch to cook and cooking stuff that needs big you know pots full of water

Vince (24:48)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. In my opinion. Are you taking your tile or your backsplashes only up under the cabinets? Are you going around the cabinets now to the ceiling?

Nathan (24:56)
so much of it's to the ceiling.

Vince (24:57)
Gotcha, that's, yeah, we're seeing that more. So much of a budget for tile or stone that goes to the ceiling where possible. Yes. Yeah, and then outlets. You know, it's code to have outlets in the backsplash. Yep. Right, but that looks horrible in a piece of stone.

Nathan (25:13)
We really attempt for us to get the plug strips and they can mount underneath the overhead cabinets there. If we can't do that, we look into pop-ups. But so the customer knows sometimes if you're in a tighter kitchen, life is what it is. the best thing you can do is try to get the sleekest plugs you can get. And like you talked about the circle plugs that you can buy.

different covers for them to where they can blend a little better. Cause we've run into issues to where we have window. Okay. Can't get the plugs in. Then we went to put pop-ups in the dishwasher was in the way. Cause then you were trying to get the pop-up to this big and, and, and we had so much trouble. so sometimes

Vince (26:00)
They're They're big on it.

Nathan (26:07)
Sometimes you're left without a choice if you run out of room, but we really work hard to try to keep as much out.

Vince (26:14)
Yeah, same here. We'll do the plug molds. call it, but it's the plug strips underneath the cabinet. But the key is we have to tell our cabinet maker, if you're new custom, if not, if you're going to order cabinets, make sure you order a light rail, which is a piece of trim that adds to the bottom to get that depth behind it to be thicker up underneath. So hides the side profile of that plug. that's something to think about. And if we can't get it there, we haven't done pop-ups that much. We've done a few.

But if you're gonna do windows, what we do is we make that wall behind the range a two by six where possible. And what we'll do is what does that do for a window? gives you a wider jam, a deeper, I should say, jam. And then we put the sill light, because that's what it was meant for. was for putting, know, those sill lights were originally designed for how homes in the Northeast, where they...

Nathan (27:00)
in the game.

Vince (27:11)
At Christmas time, everybody always liked to have the candle in the window. Okay. You know, that was old rage in New England and stuff back in the early days. And what they switched to over the years is it got dangerous. People were burning their houses down with the candles. had to keep them lit. So they switched to these sill lights, I E sill lights that would go in the window sill. And they made candles that had a plug on the end and it would just plug into the sill light. And so they'd center them up and then they got smart. They made them more GFI.

You know, so they're protected. And so now we've been using them in the side of cabinets or areas where they're sleek. But we use the same idea. We make it a two by six wall, put the sill light in the sill of the window and paint the cap, the cover of the window and it disappears and it meets code next to the range. If we can't do that, like let's say the wall is too long, we can only do a two by four or whatever. We'll then have the cabinet company maybe design into the cabinet a front,

that's wider, cause those sill lights, you have to drill an inch and a three quarter hole. And then the cap around it totals out to two inches in diameter. So they're sleek, but that's still wide. And so we'll have the cabinet company maybe make a pretty detail next to the range where it's like a Pylaster, you know, like, and then we'll put it in there. So we'll sometimes put it in the front of the cabinets, cause you can't get away with Cody with putting them inside a cabinet drawer. That doesn't it. And you can't go too high.

or it doesn't meet it.

Nathan (28:42)
How about this, have you seen, which I find hilarious, have you seen that we used to not have plugs in islands, then it became code to put plugs in islands. Have you seen the new code? Yeah. Again, no plugs in islands.

Vince (28:52)
heard that gone. Isn't

that wild? It's wild. And you know, but now that people have had it, I just spoke with a customer and said, Hey, we no longer need the plug in the island. And they looked at me and said, I want the plug. Yeah, I know.

Nathan (29:05)
Yeah, it's usually where crockpots sit and plug in, yeah, they're taking Yeah, or phones. hey, did you see it ⁓ at the builder show? Did you go into was it? Cosentino? ⁓ think it was to where now the ⁓ you can it's real easy to run power underneath Yeah on the stone. You just set your phone on the sand at charge

Vince (29:08)
Or phones.

⁓

Yeah, my countertop installer fabricator has those. And that's what she does is she takes that section and she just thins out the stone in that one section and stabilize it. And that outlet goes underneath the island. you do, you slide and it lights up in a circle. she said, which is cool, is you don't have to tell if you don't want somebody to charge their phone, don't tell them where it is. Cause when it's off, you don't see it. Yeah. It's no mark.

Nathan (29:43)
In this circle is the craziest thing.

It was wild. think it's awesome. I also find it not awesome. Like we're in the generation now to where you're at your friend's house and you have to have your phone on their island. So it'll charge. I think that's wild. ⁓ But I also, I also think that what an awesome idea.

Vince (30:10)
Yeah, what about warming drawers?

Nathan (30:14)
Man, ⁓ I loved them. Put one in my house and it never got used really. It never really got used. I think we, I'll tell you what we use the most up back in the stories because we have four kids are the refrigerator drawers. ⁓ refrigerator. Yeah, we love using. They are, but we, we enjoy the heck out of refrigerator drawers or freezer drawers back there that we can put all the kids stuff in and all of that stuff. That's super enjoyable. ⁓

Vince (30:30)
They're expensive as can be.

Nathan (30:42)
I always liked the warm and dry, I the idea.

Vince (30:44)
We have to. Well, and it's funny, I had a customer and I don't even, and I looked and they, you know, the manufacturer said that, no, nothing can catch fire. But we actually put it, we put a warming drawer in their closet. Their primary closet. Clothes. They liked warm towels, clothes. So in the winter, you turn on that warming drawer on low and you can warm up.

Nathan (31:03)
It's warmer than that.

Vince (31:14)
Underwear socks. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not kidding with you, dude. It was why Yeah, and they also like, you know warm floors and stuff like that socks man. It's gotta be wet it's enjoyable. Think about it in winter. You kidding me? No, I Towels a nice warm towel you get out of the shower I mean they make towel warmers that mount on the walls. I tell that you got a pre plan for what my towel

Nathan (31:19)
warm socks.

warms.

need freezing cold floors.

cold too. All

you people are cold.

Vince (31:42)
Yeah, people are cold nowadays. It's a different world, it's a changing world. So, all right, so that kills that. What about building coffee systems?

Nathan (31:51)
Yup. ⁓ tons of built-in coffee systems. What's funny is we don't do as much with the water tapped into it because what I have heard from real coffee connoisseurs is that tap water is not the best water to make your coffee with. want filtered water or, know, out of a Berkey or something like that. So a lot of the coffee makers we do, we do not tap in the water. So, which makes it easier because then all we have to do is have electric and

That's right. Put it in, it's no big deal. So a lot of that, but even if it's not a coffee maker, well, we see a bunch of our coffee stations. Even if we're not putting in a Thermador or a Bosch coffee maker, we are making coffee stations to where the drawer, you pull out the drawer that's underneath and it's got the K-cup areas that you can put in and everything can be organized and it's pretty and you keep the coffee pot out or the espresso machine out, those kinds of things. So we do a lot of that design of like dedicated spaces for coffee.

Vince (32:49)
Gotcha. And that makes a lot of sense. love the built-in car. They're expensive. Yeah. You know, three to four grand. Yeah. They're crazy. ⁓ And they take maintenance, like you said. You've to de-scale them. You've got to... Three to four.

Nathan (33:01)
spend three to four grand a lot unless you're spending eight dollars a day on coffee. Well, that's true. Because you're saving that money if you keep this thing at the house.

Vince (33:07)
Yeah, that's true. What about one of the big things I like to install, like if I have a customer that's cost conscious, you know, and they can't get those built-in appliances like that, what we'll do is we'll just put them behind doors. We'll do outlets. We'll do, we call them appliance garages. Appliance garages. Right, where we make the cabinetry deep. Yep. Like 24 inches, that matches the below, and we'll still have shelves in there, but we'll space the shelves accordingly and do thicker cells so they're stronger, and we'll...

add outlets inside and they can do their microwave in there. They can do their coffee maker in there. They might have the Jura, which is my favorite coffee maker in there. And it's out of the way, they close the door. So you still get a nice sleek look, not have to have a ⁓ scullery and still do it in a normal size kitchen.

Nathan (33:54)
Speaking of microwaves, you do a lot of them. Us either. I basically have taken them out in our spec homes. I put a dedicated plug somewhere in the pantry and say, hey, if you need a microwave, know, run to Lowe's or Home Depot or whatever and get yourself a microwave. Man, we do not do a lot. I'll tell you what we do. ⁓ Custom wise, if someone kind of wants a microwave, we'll do a lot of those GE Monogram five speed ovens.

They have the, it can be a conventional oven. can be a, one with a, do a steam oven. You can also do like a microwave. We'll do a lot of those, but we pretty much gotten away from microwaves.

Vince (34:33)
I urge people to really research the appliances. They're changing more and more. I know was just up at Wolf Sub Zero in Wisconsin and it's insane what they're doing with smart. I mean, it basically will run the recipe for you. But they're getting to a point where ⁓ it makes sense to upgrade appliances even in an older home just because they're getting so smart. They're almost becoming foolproof to burn a meal, which is incredible.

Nathan (35:00)
Also fridges with cameras in them that are seeing what's getting taken out of the fridge and can talk directly to, you know, your Instacart, things like that's happening. I don't know how much I love that. I don't need my wife knowing how many Miller lights I get out of the fridge. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Vince (35:18)
Big brother. ⁓

The last thing I would talk about, is pieces and parts in the kitchen are toe kick vacuums. That was pretty big for Lil' I. don't see, nobody's asking for them now.

Nathan (35:30)
I don't think think

about them. Those things are awesome. Put it in the island in your kitchen. Then you can sweep and just.

Vince (35:35)
Zoop, it goes right in and it could either go to a centralized canister or the one I had, we have a couple in my house. have one in the pet room, one in the kitchen and it's nice, but they have their own integrated bag. Yeah. You know, that you have to buy. what are we forgetting? How about flooring? mean, we'll, we'll get into the flooring in the next episode, uh, kitchens, are you doing more tile or wood in kitchens and why? That's what they want. Yep. Well, what I hear is yeah, they want wood.

Nathan (36:00)
That's what everybody want.

Vince (36:05)
because the tile or any other type of flooring is so hard on their knees and you're always moving around and standing in the kitchen more than other rooms. so fatigue on your knees. Because I mean, this is what happens. No, I'm not getting old. I'm just thinking about my customer. ⁓ OK. How dare you.

Nathan (36:15)
Why you so old?

⁓ no, we're seeing, we're seeing on the design side with designers and everything, we're seeing way more wood in kitchens than, especially with, know you use the same product too, cause you use it here due to the humidity, but especially with the fact that we're not using three quarter plywood, nailed down wood anymore. We're using, it's still site finished, but it's glued down. ⁓ so it's way more water resistant, right? It's not waterproof, but it's more water resistant. So people are way more comfortable putting that product in their kitchen.

Vince (36:53)
Gotcha. ⁓ are you left-handed or right-handed? So, okay. So you talk to your customers about...

Nathan (36:53)
A chip.

Right handed. Dishwasher on the right.

I

ask every customer, Mike, are you right or left handed? You want the dishwasher on the right, trash can on the left.

Vince (37:09)
That's right, just because it's comfort. I always call it the unconscious thinking of it. And that's what a good builder, ⁓ that is guiding their homeowner and trying to make them the hero in their story. The way that they become the hero is having a seamless day. That they're not having to even unconsciously remember, think or deal with something. And that's how you make your customer your hero.

in a ordinary home feel great. And that's the goal, right? How do we design this kitchen? How do we make it so seamless that it just feels right? Thank you. You make me feel right. With that being said, why don't you take us out? What do need these folks to do? Yeah, well, I do the intros and the exits and you do the intro. And you're gonna do the next one, dad. No.

Nathan (37:50)
You're my hero.

I gotta take them out? did the intro.

you're the

⁓ like and subscribe please on all the channels, Spotify, YouTube, wherever else you can watch. Apple, guess. ⁓ whatever, whatever you want to do as a customer, wherever you watch or listen, most of your listening, you should watch cause we look good. ⁓ in my opinion, but like and subscribe and, we really appreciate you being along. hope you're getting some pro tips and, we'll see you next time.

Vince (38:11)
Watch Apple Podcasts.

Thank you.