🎙️ Drag, Disruption & Dangerous Laws: Trans Joy in a Bathroom Ban State 🏳️‍⚧️🔥 Guest: Tacoma / Rachel Lee Motivated

🎙️ Drag, Disruption & Dangerous Laws: Trans Joy in a Bathroom Ban State 🏳️‍⚧️🔥

Guest: Tacoma / Rachel Lee Motivated

What happens when your drag becomes your protest? When joy is defiance—and survival? And what does it feel like to live, perform, and pee in a state like Idaho under escalating anti-trans laws?

This week on Trans Joy Boise, hosts Bonnie Violet (trans femme, genderqueer, spiritual drag artist & digital chaplain) and Pacey (transmasc, non-binary, mental health & recovery advocate) are joined by the radiant and rebellious Tacoma (aka drag star Rachel Lee Motivated) for a conversation about:

💄 Drag as a tool for protest and community building
 📣 The power—and risk—of pushing the envelope on stage
 🚻 Living through Idaho’s newest bathroom ban law
 🧠 Coping with fear, safety, and survival in hostile states
 🏳️‍🌈 Turning performance into purpose—and joy into resistance

This episode is a raw and heartfelt look at how queer artists are navigating joy, fear, and visibility in dangerous times—and how every stage can become a soapbox.

🧼 Because in Idaho, simply being seen can be revolutionary.

📺 Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/YOUR-LINK
🎧 Listen wherever you get your podcasts: https://www.buzzsprout.com/YOUR-LINK

Transcript

Bonnie Violet: 0:00

Hey everyone. How's it going? I'm Bonnie Violet, transgender, queer, spiritual drag artist, digital chaplain. I'm Pacey Trans Mask non-binary Mental Health and recovery Advocate, and welcome to Transy Boise, where every story, laugh and act of joy is a stand for our community. We uplift bold voices, share real experiences, and celebrate trans lives thriving. Tune in, connect and spread the joy because trans joy is unstoppable. Yes. I started to lose my voice there in a minute for a minute. No worries. It's all good. We'll get there eventually, and we, obviously you can folks who are watching us, you can see that we do have a guest. Uh, would you like to go ahead and introduce yourself?

Tacoma: 0:41

Hi, yes. I'm Tacoma Local Artist, performer. Um, you might also know me as Rachel Lee motivated. Um, I'm really happy to be here. Thank you for

Bonnie Violet: 0:54

having me. Awesome. We're really stoked to have you. You were like first on our list, uh, to be a guest when we first started and got, got going with the podcast, so it's, we're excited to, to get you here. Woo. Yes. Yes.

Pacey: 1:08

And I love working with you and stuff in like the advocacy setting. You know, getting to do the you event with the A CLU was really nice just to see you like in a different setting than I'm used to seeing you, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tacoma: 1:22

Because I'm usually like fake boobs, big heels. Mm-hmm. You know, so definitely a change. Yeah. This is also great, but

Bonnie Violet: 1:29

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I definitely got introduced to you through your drag. Um, which is just, I think it's very unique. I think to, like you, you're, you're your own drag queen. You know? I wouldn't say, you can't say like, oh, you're like this drag queen or that drag queen, which a lot of people unfortunately say like, oh, you're kind of, remind me of this, or kind of remind me of that. And, um, I'm always, uh, I I would say almost surprised in some ways'cause you have such a range of what you do.

Tacoma: 1:56

Yeah. Um, I think it's also, it's a blessing and a curse because like sometimes. When I'm looking for inspiration, there's not an easy way for me to look at like, oh, let's see what this artist does. Mm-hmm. Because that's very similar to my style. I feel like, you know, humble brag. I have a very diverse range of expression artistically.

Bonnie Violet: 2:18

Mm-hmm. And how long have you been doing drag? I know you, it seems like you're newer on the scene here, so to speak, but I know.

Tacoma: 2:25

I've only, not even two years. It's gonna be two years in August. Damn. But yeah, I know it's been really fun. Like probably the best years of my life, honestly.'cause I had to overcome a lot and there were moments where like it's always been a dream of mine to like have that stage, to have that spotlight.

Bonnie Violet: 2:50

Mm-hmm.

Tacoma: 2:51

But. There were definitely some rough times where I didn't feel deserving or I didn't feel like I loved myself enough.

Bonnie Violet: 2:59

Mm.

Tacoma: 2:59

But being able to do drag and being welcomed into such a cool community has really helped. Um. Like my own flame, I guess. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Bonnie Violet: 3:11

Yeah. I'm, I'm curious, and I know that you're, are you, uh, from Idaho originally?

Tacoma: 3:17

Um, I was born in Washington. Mm-hmm. Um, but I've been here pretty much my whole life. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I moved when I was

Bonnie Violet: 3:26

a year old. Okay. If that. Mm-hmm. But, so this is what, you know, have you always been in like the Boise area or,

Tacoma: 3:32

yeah, yeah. I've always been in Boise, but, um. I used to live over closer to Kuna, like out by the

Bonnie Violet: 3:40

waterfall. I can't remember the name of it anyway. Hmm. I don't know Kuna very well.

Pacey: 3:46

Yeah. Yeah. My favorite thing when you perform was like in the McCall show that when the straight men. They love you. Oh my gosh. It's, it's hilarious to me because like, they get rowdy about it. They kind of just like, like flustered by you and it just, that is my favorite

Tacoma: 4:04

part. 100%. Yes. I, I really love being able to meet an audience halfway with my art. I feel like that's always one of the biggest goals of mine that I strive for because I have a lot of really crazy ideas in my head and I know. Sometimes people have other similar crazier ideas. Mm. And so I feel like there's a lot of magic in reading the room and like matching that energy with

Bonnie Violet: 4:34

like every performance. Yeah. Well also pushing it a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, I think that's a hard balance sometimes that I don't think all artists, and not that all artists need to do that, but I think one things that you do well is that you're able to kind of though meet them where they're at, but then push them a little further, but not in a way that like alienates. Than from what you're doing, because there's some things that can be done and you'll be like, okay, that's kind of crazy. Yeah. It might even be cool, but, but you kind of like, I don't know, you can kind of distance yourself from it. Whereas I feel like your drag is a lot more app appro, approachable. I don't know if it's approachable is the right word, but I'll take it. I'll take it.

Pacey: 5:10

Yes. I think that art is, and always has been a really great way to spread awareness. Mm-hmm. And to, I guess even just like. A form of rebellion. Right. And I think that the way that you are able to kind of push the envelope, it's in a way that is, you know, in settings like at the balcony, it's kind of like an acceptable way, but also like, you know, like you're, you're getting this message out there that otherwise. Wouldn't be out there right now. And I think that's so important. Yeah. And I think it's great that you're able to use the platform that you have with being this performer to help spread this awareness and to help educate people and get people fired up about the things that we need them to be really fucking fired up about. And that's like something that only performers can do. I think so. It's so cool to see such like a prominent local performer really digging their heels in and trying. To get people fired up.

Bonnie Violet: 6:14

Yes. I love that. And I know you mentioned you had a lot of range in like your performance and, but do you, do you yourself kind of have an idea of like, like how would you describe your art? Maybe your drag and, or maybe like if there's some sort of message you kind of have that's kind of,

Tacoma: 6:30

you

Bonnie Violet: 6:30

know what I mean?

Tacoma: 6:31

Yeah. Um, honestly, I really hope that my art and the range of it just reflects how nuanced and varied life can be. Awesome. Because. I definitely have a lot of really stupid numbers where I'm just trying to get people to laugh. I'm just trying to like, you know, spread joy. But then there are other moments, um, where I'm really trying to like scream at the audience to get them to like, get a message. And there are times where it's like almost spiteful, I feel like, and I don't know. Um. I really just hope that my art helps express my emotions clearly. Mm-hmm. To more people.

Bonnie Violet: 7:10

When you say spiteful, could you share specific, I'm curious about when you said spiteful, I'm like, Ooh, I'm curious.

Tacoma: 7:17

Well, I mean like, um, it's been very tone down just because I know there's a couple of, um. Names I shouldn't name, or necessarily stances. I shouldn't oppose, uh, especially performing at somewhere like the balcony.

Bonnie Violet: 7:35

Mm-hmm.

Tacoma: 7:36

Um, and I really, I. This is a little sneak peek of like what I have cooking, but, um, just this year I produced a January 6th show. Mm-hmm. And I had everyone wear like MAGA caps and Yeah. Dressed as like fishermen. And then recently I had the what about Straight Pride show, and there were actually a lot of straight people there. Mm-hmm. Which was very funny to see like a new audience. Kind of engage with somewhere, somewhere they wouldn't go normally.

Bonnie Violet: 8:07

Mm-hmm.

Tacoma: 8:07

Um, but my newest little project I got cooking up is shaping up to be very divisive and I'm excited to see what type of art it helps produce.

Bonnie Violet: 8:17

Oh, nice. I'm intrigued and curious. I'm excited to see what that, see what that is. Yes. Yeah, I think we've talked

Pacey: 8:24

about it and I'm excited. That's so important though, to. Kind of make people uncomfortable in a comfortable setting. Yeah. To just kind of like,'cause we need more people to be educated on these things and fired up and willing to go out and support these causes. So I fucking love it.

Bonnie Violet: 8:46

Thank you.

Pacey: 8:47

So yesterday was kind of a rough day and I kind of wanted to talk about that a little bit, um, just because I feel like some of the people that are watching this are listening this. We will be affected by it. There was yesterday was the first day that, or no, that was, yeah, yesterday, July 1st. It was the first day that HB 2 64 went into effect, and that was Idaho's bathroom ban basically, where it's for universities, community colleges, prisons, correctional facilities, and even domestic violence shelters. You have to use the restroom that. Aligns with the sexier assigned at birth. Yeah. And people can sue the establishment of a restroom if they see someone that's using like the incorrect restroom. Right. And I think that, you know, from what I've shared and seen from responses all over the country is people are just like. Mainly saying, don't go to Idaho, or I'm so glad I got outta Idaho. Mm-hmm. And people here are really afraid. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, yeah, it's terrible. But I feel like everyone in the community just is starting to get even more of this weight on their shoulders of all these things that are consistently coming out in the news. Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 10:01

And I think bathrooms have always been kind of a challenge for us as it is anyway. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And so I think also with this like. It. I, I think there's a lot of confusion or like, I think it's really easy to kind of blanket that, that means all restrooms everywhere in public. Mm-hmm. I know that initially that was some confusion and though it isn't, that isn't true. Yeah. I think it yet, right, exactly. I think there's the yet, but I think it also still, I think for me, it does add an additional layer again of like, okay, maybe it's not. At a university or at a correctional facility. But even just using the restroom in public mm-hmm. I think makes me think even more about it. Again. I mean, I've already like, I mean I've already moved around my life. Like we, we just drove to Seattle. Mm-hmm. And that was where some of the first times that I use restrooms, um. Not like, not at places. I know. And that's partially'cause I can't go, I can't go eight or nine hours without peeing. Right, right. Yeah, I was, that was my goal. But you know, luckily, but, but you know, it was like every time we stopped it was like, okay, I need to pee. But, um, what's the situation? You know? And some of'em have one use, it's not that big of a deal, but there were a couple times when I had to go Oh, yeah. Into the women's room. And especially being in like, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, like some of the stories that you've heard of, like. Vigilante, if you will. Kind of like people who decide to take it into their own. Yeah. About, you know, somebody being in the bathroom, they don't think they need to is in those areas. And so I was definitely like a little anxious about it. We used the buddy system. We

Pacey: 11:38

did. Yeah. Partner went with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's

Tacoma: 11:44

yeah's your experience with that. I think it sets a very dangerous precedent. Mm-hmm. Because, just because it's not codified for all public restrooms, it gives businesses a legal shield to discriminate against trans people. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like that's only gonna drive the fervor even more, uh, especially with the pushback and the bigoted response to a stronger queer presence in Boise.

Pacey: 12:16

Mm-hmm.

Tacoma: 12:16

Yeah. Yeah.

Pacey: 12:17

Just the beginning. It also makes it like hard for businesses that are allies to continue to support the community because if they're facing a lawsuit of what, five,$10,000? Just for, you know, giving someone the option to use the bathroom that they choose. You know, how are they going to continue to do that?

Bonnie Violet: 12:38

Yeah, yeah. Well, and then I think there's the whole issue too, of just like, how is a, how is a university gonna enforce that? Like, are they gonna have security at the entrance of all the bathrooms? Like, are they gonna like stop somebody before they get in there? Like Yeah. You know, it's, it's, I think that's gonna be interesting I think to see how universities and that are going to, and to some degree, well, all it takes is one person. In a fac. You know what I mean? Because to me, I think most universities might be like, whatever, we're not gonna, you know what I mean? Like, there's not gonna be any issue'cause nobody's gonna complain. Right. And you know, that sort of thing. But that's not true. Like it will happen at some point. For sure. Definitely.

Pacey: 13:20

Yeah. Well, in the hearings for it, uh, everyone was saying like in their testimonies, like. How are you going to enforce this? Mm-hmm. You know, who's going to police this? Because it is impossible, right? Unless like you're either going to have guards that are doing these invasive searches, like invasive genital searches of the people that you're claiming to protect with this bill, or you're going to leave it up to the public, and we're already seeing the consequences of that nationwide, where people are. Taking it into their own hands and they're beating people that aren't even like that one woman wasn't even trans. Yeah. And they beat her unconscious just for being in the women's restroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 13:59

That she was told she had to be in. Mm-hmm. I mean, it was where she wanted to be, but you know.

Tacoma: 14:03

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. There's a lot of, um, I'm feeling a lot of fear. Definitely just with, um. The enforcement aspect of it, because like you could have,'cause I notice even allies and even other queer people, we have our own biases. We have our own blind spots. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so like, I can't imagine just how blind and like I bigoted straight people or like guards or whatever type of enforcement is gonna be, especially somewhere like Idaho.

Bonnie Violet: 14:36

Yeah, it definitely, it definitely puts the power, if you will. And tells people they have the power. Mm-hmm. To kind of reinforce it as just like a normal citizen, right? Yeah. To at least it, at least report it. But I still think there's some power in that that will probably lead to other things as well. Yeah. Yeah. Not thrilled. Yeah. It's, I dunno. Well, and there, and I think right now, you know that a lot of the universities and stuff aren't necessarily like. Deep in class, you know, like they're not maximum with students and stuff. So I think probably come fall is gonna become maybe more of a, oh yeah, I don't know. Like something's gonna go down, if you will. Something. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, and there was a whole lot of other, um, kind of, you know, like. This facility bill is one that's like specifically for trans people. But there's a lot of other recent laws in Idaho that came into effect yesterday as well. You know, now they have the shooting, the firing squad for, um, death penalties or I. What do they call the Yeah. Death penalty capital. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then I also know that they, um, removed access to like state funded programs for people who are undocumented for immigrants or undocumented. Yeah. Yeah. And there was a bunch of others. I, I told myself I was gonna remember them all. Mm-hmm. And. I don't remember them all at the moment. There's too many. There is. There's too many to remember. I saw a person like list like 10 uhhuh and, and it didn't even include the facilities one, you know, like, I mean it was like, and she was like, oh, there's so many more. Like, and so, um, yeah, it's cur I'm curious to see. They also made like, you know, yeah. I don't know. It was just a lot of different, um, laws that came, came

Pacey: 17:04

into effect for sure. And the big beautiful bill passed and like 14 million people are gonna lose their health insurance. Yeah.'cause they're like gutting Medicare or Yeah. Medicaid. I'm on Medicaid. Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 17:15

I'm, I, I anticipate that I'm gonna lose. Access to Medicaid. Yeah, yeah. Um, and which will then also then I'm also a person living with HIV. Um, and so I think that would put me on an AIDS drug assistance program through Ryan White that would make me eligible because now I'm not eligible through Medicaid. Um, and, and as it is, I, at Texas Gender affirming care, I do it through self-pay. Right now it's like a sliding fee where it's. Somewhat affordable, but it's, it's a stretch for me to, to have my gender affirming care. But it's like super important. And so like, but with my HIV care, it's like$5,000 a month for one medication. Jesus Christ for one medication. So I can't do that self pay. I'm not in a position to like buy my own insurance. I don't have a job in which I get insurance that would cover that. Yeah. And so then I have to rely on the AIDS drug assistance program, which I believe'cause they also cut that recently. On a federal level that we're gonna start having waiting lists where people living with HIV are gonna have to wait months, maybe even longer, um, to get access to their medica, their life saving medication. So, and then there's that lawsuit right now with the A CLU around access to prep. Um, there's a doctor in Idaho, I wanna look into it a little bit more. Um, but there is a doctor in Idaho along with the A CLU that are suing. The federal government for, uh, some sort of cuts or denials of access to prep in particular for, um, I think it actually might be for undocumented folks, but I think it's more of a broader stroke of, um, removing access to that as well.

Tacoma: 18:56

Definitely. Um, with all the news, like it's feels like overflow. Mm-hmm. But the more that I read about stuff that comes out, it feels like. Very malicious synergy. Yeah. And like not only have is like HRT and Trans healthcare in Idaho already at risk, but now like with Medicaid being gutted, the after effects of the withdrawals from people who just can't afford it anymore mm-hmm. Are gonna go untreated because like queer people. I don't really have a lot of health insurance. A lot of us don't have health insurance. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I don't have health insurance and it's gonna make it very scary, um, because it places a lot of power into like employers. Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 19:42

Um, yeah, it's, yeah. I think there's, you know, employers are, I mean, I don't think, and I think part of the challenge is why some of us. Don't get the jobs that we get or get to, you know, works in the fields that we want to is partially because I think being in Idaho in particular, it's not an asset to be a trans or queer person. Yeah. In those sorts of settings.'cause in some ways we just create, um. Um, I think perception of burden or more problem.'cause maybe they need to have a different bathroom now or they have to Yeah. Use pronouns or not, which is now even like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, I think it's just complicated for some folks and they're just choosing not to. To fuck with it.

Tacoma: 20:22

Yeah. Instead of like educating mm-hmm. Or seeking to understand more. They just like shut themselves off and Yeah. Stick their heads in the sand.

Bonnie Violet: 20:31

Yeah. And not to say all,'cause I do think there's a lot of other, like smaller businesses and different groups that are actually, I think even making an effort to hire more people, um, from marginalized communities. Yeah. Um, I think for that reason.

Pacey: 20:46

But

Bonnie Violet: 20:47

yeah.

Pacey: 20:47

One thing that we've talked about on here a lot is. Because I wanna get your perspective on this is the, the lines that we have for what feels like the moment where you're like, okay, I need to leave. Um, so for me it was two of the three have already been crossed, so it's like. And the first one hit and I was like, oh, okay, well maybe I'll just wait. And then the second one hit and I'm like, okay. So I don't know if I ever actually will leave.

Bonnie Violet: 21:18

Mm-hmm.

Pacey: 21:18

But what is the thing for you that will be the moment that you're like, okay, I, I think I, I actually have to, to flee now.

Tacoma: 21:28

I think it, I don't think I really have any, I mean, like, I. Being a black trans person anywhere in America is unsafe. Um, and I already kind of know some of the community here. I've already kind of built up something that feels like it can grow. Mm-hmm. Um, and I have a lot of friends like. Thankfully they're able to like get to more safe environments, but I'm just like, personally, I don't feel safe anywhere in America, no matter where I go. Right. Just because I'm kind of this intersection of like Right. All the marginalization in the world. Yeah. But, um, yeah, I don't know. Um, it might be nice to be paid more in like a different city and stuff, but. With how much I've seen in Idaho, it feels like a fight that I can't ignore.

Bonnie Violet: 22:25

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think then maybe this is what I was sensing, but maybe not what you said, but for me too, a big part of, I think the reason, the thing that keeps me here is the people who are still here, um, who I am connected with and feel. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like, yes, we're in this hard spot, but I have like these bubbles and I have these places and this community that I feel really tight to. Yeah. That I know in my experience living in other cities, I didn't have that like I have here. Right. Um, and so I think, and that's a huge thing, especially when you're talking about, no matter where I go, I'm still gonna be a black trans person. And so whether I'm in San Francisco or I'm in New York, or I'm like, whatever, I'm still gonna deal with those issues'cause. You know, just because you live in a larger city doesn't mean you're not gonna be impacted in those ways. We hear about it all the time. Yeah. So it, and I think for me too, that's just kind of the aspect of like, well, at least I know, I think some people, what's that saying? Like, um, it's better to, like, the evil, you know, is better than, what's that? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Then

Tacoma: 23:26

like the evil you don't,

Bonnie Violet: 23:27

yeah. So it's kind of like, I know the gross here. Like I know how it is. I've been in it, I've survived in it. In some ways it's not. Probably impacting me in the ways that it used to,'cause I've learned to kind of like manage that. Yeah, I was kind of hearing that a little bit in what you were saying.

Tacoma: 23:40

Yeah, definitely. Um, like I grew up here my whole life, um, basically, so I've definitely learned to cope with the unique way that Idaho is bigoted. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I've seen, um, I've taken a lot of trips over to Seattle. Um, and that definitely seems like somewhere I want to build up. Mm-hmm. And maybe connect to, but I still think, I don't think I would, I would leave. Yeah. Idaho. Just'cause I feel like, you know, if all the, if all the fight leaves and moves away, then. They're able to just run free and create whatever monstrosities they're getting. Yeah,

Bonnie Violet: 24:27

I agree. And I think part of it for me is being able to look at, like we, we did get to go to Seattle recently. There was this idea of like. It is cool to see what's happening there. That's so different than here, but for me, oftentimes it's just like a place to get ideas. Yeah, yeah. Inspir of like, how can we do this here? Because even like doing the trans march was not a big like brand new idea that I had. It was like I had went to the ones in San Francisco for years and I'd gotten so much. From that that I was like, we need that here. Yeah. Like I need that here. And I know so many more people would benefit from it happening here. And so I think even part of us going to Seattle this weekend was to begin to really dream and see what Idaho, I think could become potentially even amongst all the. The extra barriers and challenges that we have here. Yeah. I mean, in some ways I feel like we have more of an urgency, and I think sometimes urgency is a powerful ingredient in really getting shit done. Definitely. Yeah. Because we have no choice. Yeah. But to respond, we can't be complacent. We can't be apathetic like we have to do something. Because our lives do depend on it.

Tacoma: 25:37

Yeah. Yeah. I think what I've seen a lot, especially during pride month, is this growing number of people who are sick of being silent. Mm-hmm. They're tired of looking the other way and ignoring the problems that are happening. Um, there's a very strong. Vocal, majority of bigots, but they're all cowards. Hiding away online working a regular ass job like, yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 26:06

Yeah,

Tacoma: 26:07

I know. It's really cool to see that there is a growing resistance and there are a number of people who. Are becoming and want to become better allies. Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Violet: 26:17

Yeah. So, so one of the things that I feel like, I feel like, um, like in particular, we started this podcast back at the beginning, or, well, it was actually at the end of last year, but I think in the beginning of this, um, I. It. I, I don't know. I feel like personally I've been struggling a lot more now with kind of like having the strength and the power to kind of move through. Yeah. It's probably more about stamina or endurance if you'll, right. But I'm curious, what is it that you do or how do you, um, find your strength, um, to kind of continue to show up in community in the way that you do?

Tacoma: 26:50

I think a lot of that strength, um. It comes from a very personal journey I've had. Um, especially just being in Idaho. Um, when I was in high school, I didn't plan to make it to 18. Hmm. I didn't plan to make it I 21 even. Um, and so like every day that I'm alive gives me that strength. Mm-hmm. Um,'cause it proves that I'm stronger than I ever thought I would be. Right. Um, and I hope that I can help spread that joy and share that hope with other people.

Bonnie Violet: 27:28

Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I think that you do. Yeah. And I think you just saying that is, I mean, there's so many of us that can relate to that. Yeah. Those thoughts, those feelings, those fears, the lack of expectation, if you will. Yeah. Disappointment. Yeah. How did that, how did you shift that? I'm sure you probably still have days. Definitely. Definitely. But how did you begin to shift that? Or how would you suggest others? I.

Tacoma: 27:52

Um, what really helped me was stepping out of my comfort zone and being willing to educate myself beyond the beliefs I had previously held.

Bonnie Violet: 28:04

Mm-hmm.

Tacoma: 28:04

I think my willingness to challenge what I know and what I believe in helped shift my mentality into something that's productive, into something that's breathing.

Bonnie Violet: 28:16

Mm-hmm.

Tacoma: 28:18

Because like I was fully down the alt-right pipeline in high school. I was ingesting a lot of self-hatred. I was ingesting a lot of hatred externally. Mm-hmm. Towards others. Um, and I think once I was willing to sit back and question, okay, who's posting this stuff? Why are they posting this stuff? Um, and just kind of. Dis disassembled the, uh, propaganda. Mm-hmm. In a way, I think being willing to challenge authorities or, you know, intellectuals, um, regardless of, you know, identity or politics, um, definitely helped me. Flip that switch. Mm-hmm. Um, and start kind of living for myself and not trying to meet expectations of like what a man should be or what a woman should be, or what a trans person should be. Yeah. Yeah. Or like what a black person should be. Mm-hmm. So,

Pacey: 29:18

yeah, so powerful. I think if everyone needs to be able to have that level of. Self-awareness. And I know that it's really common for people in the L-G-B-T-Q community to have come from sort of a sense of phobia ourselves, you know, um, just from not understanding what we, or maybe not wanting to accept like the truth about ourselves. And I think it's a journey like I know I did, but I'm. Older. So like when I was a kid in high school, it was, it was different than it is now. We had two gay kids in a large school. Um, but I think that maybe some of the reason that like maggots can't do that is'cause maybe they're afraid that if they're open about those things, they'll realize like. Oh, I am kind of gay.

Bonnie Violet: 30:12

Mm.

Pacey: 30:12

And then what are they gonna do with like, their church, their friends, their family. Mm-hmm. And I think that if we were able to get rid of this notion of like this toxic masculinity, of this hyper fixation on Christianity, I think that everyone would be so much happier.

Bonnie Violet: 30:27

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that's why a lot of people have a problem with queer people and trans people is because we're, we're, we, we're not buying into the lies that they've bought into. So even if it's not that they're gay. But maybe they wanna express themselves so they're more comfortable in an expression that isn't so hyper-masculine or hyper-feminine. Mm-hmm. That they can have permission and be allowed to do that without being gay or without being trans. Right. Because I think even like as a trans person, I had, it took me a long time to transition because. I was like, well, I'm not, I don't wanna be a woman. Like, I don't see myself as becoming a cisgender woman or my understanding of a woman. Yeah. And so, for a long time I never transitioned because I didn't think I was trans enough, or I wasn't trans even. Mm-hmm. Um, I just was a. Bearded lady or like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, like, it was like, it took me a long time to get there because I, to some degree, even though I was in a gay box or even a, my understanding of a queer box, it didn't allow enough space for me to become more of who I was because it felt like I either had to be a fag or I had to like be a woman and I didn't feel like I was. Either like faggot was closer, right? So I think I landed in that box for so long, even if I became flamboyant as fuck and in every way was kind of a girl, but not, you know, like, um, to then be able to just own that, okay, I'm trans and my transness is, is what is it for me? Which is I think sometimes really hard as a trans person is like, is my expression today about how I feel best? Or is it about how I feel best given the situation that I'm going into. Mm-hmm. Right. You know,'cause I know I've had moments where I was like, I just wish I looked like a, a real girl so that I didn't get fucked with. Mm-hmm. So I could go to the bathroom, so I could go to the grocery store so that my transness was not a thing that I carried with me everywhere. Mm-hmm. Um, but. I don't think that's what I really want. Like I always feel like I'll always identify as a trans person, uh, even if I ever pass, if you will. Right. Like, I still don't think I would wanna get rid of the transness.'cause I feel like being trans really speaks to a, a larger narrative and a big part of my narrative of what's taken me to get there.

Tacoma: 32:49

Yeah, absolutely. I found that, um, as I explored my identity a lot of. What might be considered like transition goals were very like misogynistic. Mm-hmm. Or like, um, were very selective in what I deemed as correct, or what I was taught was correct for like a man or a woman. Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 33:14

Yeah. Well, and I think having the head of a queer that I did too, I think in some ways I wasn't allowing myself to be go femin off because I didn't want to like. Not be queer anymore because my identity, my thought of what a woman is, is so varied. Mm-hmm. That even if my womanhood looked like getting tits and like, you know, like look like makeup and like glammed up and like kind of got to that level that somehow like that's not a queer woman or that's not, you know what I mean? Like you can't have queerness within that. Yeah. And so I think for me, that's something that I've kind of. I've been challenged by, and I think I had to become more comfortable in my quote unquote womanhood in order to fuck with the gender a little bit more, if that makes sense. Like I feel like I'm only finally getting into a place where I feel like I can, that's one thing I loved about Seattle. I was like, I can go be around queer people. Yeah. So like even though I'm a trans woman, I can like. I don't know, try to present myself more clearly. Like so like, you know, even just putting my hair back this way, like I feel like it looks maybe kind of, sort of shaved or, but it's still femme, but it kind of fucks with it a little bit. Yeah. And that's something I haven't felt comfortable with in a long time because I feel like I have to read more woman, if you will, in like Yeah. You have to like fit into a box. Exactly. Which doesn't feel authentic.

Tacoma: 34:35

Yeah. There's a lot of. Who a person is that's lost when you try to fit into a box. Yeah. That society frames. Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 34:43

Yep, yep. Yeah. And in some ways I think we just have more boxes to fit ourselves into. And I think it's just trying to not stay in a box. Yeah. You know? And I feel like that's, I. Yeah. I feel like that's what queer, queer people in general do, is that we don't stay in those boxes. You know? For me, being queer, it's my, it's my gender, it's my sexuality. It's my politics. It's my spirituality. Yeah. It's like how I see myself in the world. It's how I want the world to see me in it, you know? I don't ever wanna be the status quo. Right. Yeah. And I almost feel like that's a calling. Even not to get too

Pacey: 35:20

woo. Whoa. No, I love it. I think that, like for me personally, I would never wanna be a cis man. Right. You know? And I think I can speak for at least some like other trans men, trans masks. Like the point for me was never to be a cis man. Mm-hmm. Because why the fuck would I want that? Yeah. You know, like, yeah. I think, and I feel like genuinely, and this is like a difficult thing that I've had to come to terms with, it's like if I had been born. A cis man, like I would not be who I am. Yeah. Like I would not be as empathetic. I would be probably misogynistic. I would be, and I don't wanna admit that because I'm like, oh well I'm still the same person. Yes. But I would be socialized so different.

Bonnie Violet: 36:05

Yeah.

Pacey: 36:06

And I don't like, I think there's so much value in being raised a fab and having that experience of what it's like to be. You know, a girl in this world and all of the injustices and the danger that is just inherent in that life. Mm-hmm. And then having the opportunity to see life from the other end and eventually Right. Be able to be a voice that people will listen to. Unfortunately more in a lot of settings about those injustices. Mm-hmm. And I just. So when people say like, you'll never be a real man, I'm like, fucking, thank God. Yeah. I don't wanna be a real man. That's not my goal. Yeah. No. And like, speaking on the, the fear that a lot of people have about like their queerness. I think we're giving these men too much grace really, because I'm thinking like, oh, they should be able to like wear pink shirt if they want. That's not where they're at. Where they're at is a lot of these. Really far right. Men won't even wipe their ass because they think it's gay. Right? And like, or they won't wash their ass because they think it's fucking gay. And people, I've told people that they're like, uh, like Google it. Google it. You will see these poor girlfriends of these men just being like, he won't, and, and he says that it's, it's too gay for him to do that. I'm like, okay. So if we're trying to get people to see us as humans and see that they can also, you know, just be a well-rounded version of themselves. They can have femininity, but they're not even willing to do like the bare minimum of like basic hygiene. Yeah, it's gonna be a struggle. To just get them to see us as humans at all. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I mean, it's ridiculous. Seems so extreme. It's funny, but it's just like, what a sad way to live. It seems sad. Yeah. It's so sad to like be so afraid to come off as gay that you will go to such extremes that are just like harmful for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 38:06

It's, yeah. And it's also, yeah. I don't know. It's so, it's a, it just makes me think about like what created that in in people that you know,'cause I get it.'cause there's a lot of fear. We lose a lot, we lose a lot to live the lives that we live. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We've had to give up a lot. We've had a lot of things taken from us. We've had to forfeit a lot of things that are pretty important. To us mm-hmm. In order to like live the way that we live. And I think some people might not be able to do that, or maybe they're so caught up in that fear that they can't Yeah. Yeah. Paralyzed.

Tacoma: 38:53

It breaks my heart a little, I've noticed, um, just in conversations I've had with like older people who start to ask those questions. Um. There's so much fear in that I've seen with older people, they realize like they could have lived their whole lives how they wanted to.

Bonnie Violet: 39:14

Mm-hmm.

Tacoma: 39:15

And being educated in their later years kind of gives'em this fear that maybe they wasted Yeah. However much of their life, um, trying to fit into a box and trying to be acceptable when. We accept a lot more than society tells us to.

Bonnie Violet: 39:36

Like, yeah.

Tacoma: 39:37

Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 39:38

I mean, I, I feel that way. I, yeah. I came out as a queer, at least in my twenties, and I would still feel that there was so much in my life that I still Oh yeah. Kind of like, in some ways I wished I. Could have seen the world then as I do now. Yeah. Um, and I'd be blown away at the thought of the person that I would be today if I could have started sooner. But I think the thing that, but I, I know that it's like, it's a journey for all of us, and I think it's just our part. In the le like I think in our legacy and I believe our ultimate of like becoming better people for all of us. Yeah. And it's just like my journey though. Maybe it did take me a while to get here, um, will hopefully allow others to not have to in the same way. And so in general evolution yeah. Will continue to evolve even though I might have took a little longer, but I took a little less longer than. I don't know the people before me or never, you

Tacoma: 40:37

know, some people live and die without being willing to ask themselves those questions.

Bonnie Violet: 40:43

Yeah. Well, and I think there's probably a certain level of delusion or whatever that has to be created in yourself, I think to really allow, like, at least for me, like, like I've had to be completely oblivious to shit, to like not wanna change, you know what I mean? Right. Yeah. Um, so, and maybe that's a gift of us being queer, but like, I. I don't know. It's just like I can't, not for very long, at least. Right. Yeah. So you do some work with a local group? Yeah. Talk about that a little bit.

Tacoma: 41:14

Yeah. Um, I only really helped with, um, vending, but um, it was a Treasure Valley Trans Defense Fund. Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Violet: 41:22

Um,

Tacoma: 41:23

started by Ren Carpenter. Okay. But, um, she's putting together little self-defense kids mm-hmm. To mail out to. Any trans person that wants it, um, I believe free of charge.

Bonnie Violet: 41:36

Oh, that's cool.

Tacoma: 41:37

Yeah, I don't really know what's in the boxes, but, um. I know they're a really cool group. They kind of got inspired from other, uh, career chapters, like along the West Coast. Along the West Coast. Yeah. That's so

Bonnie Violet: 41:48

cool. Is there a way for people to connect with that yet, or is it still kind of in the

Tacoma: 41:52

beginnings? I know they have an Instagram page and they've already started sending out kits. Okay. Um, I don't know where else they're at, but you know, hopefully she can correct me later and ask for more

Bonnie Violet: 42:02

details. Okay. Yeah, maybe we can have her on sometime too. Yeah. Um, have her talk about it a little bit more, but in the meantime we will go ahead and put it like in the. In the chart. In the chart notes, but I'm like a doctor. I've been reading too many like yeah. Medical stuff, but yeah, like in the, um, description of the video or in the podcast or whatever so people can get connected. Yeah.

Tacoma: 42:23

Yeah. Um, I've also been part of like a smaller group. Um, we don't really even like have a name, but it's just me and like four other people. We kind of meet. Once a month-ish. Mm-hmm. We read a lot of zines, um, and do a lot of grounding, like grief exercises, uhhuh, um, just to kind of build more like community mm-hmm. Into build a support system that's going to help us transition into whatever the future, the next step. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds

Bonnie Violet: 42:58

really cool. That's really important. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, how does a girl get into that? Yeah. I mean, I don't even really know how I got into

Tacoma: 43:05

it. Yeah. It was like a signal group chat or something. Mm-hmm. But, um, yeah, I definitely want to get in contact and let them, like, because we've been trying to organize just like a group event, just to like a open invite to everybody. Mm-hmm. But, um, hopefully soon, um, have some more details. Um, I just wanna like, have a bunch of zines and have a bunch of different organizations just kind of. You know, educate people who are interested in that kind of stuff.

Bonnie Violet: 43:30

Mm-hmm.

Tacoma: 43:32

It's

Pacey: 43:32

more important now than ever. Yeah. Every day. I say that.

Tacoma: 43:37

Every day. Yeah. Yeah. It's

Pacey: 43:39

fucking worse.

Tacoma: 43:40

Yeah. Yeah. I'm also, I'm hoping to get more involved with bigger groups than just kind of, you know, any group. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, we all need each other at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I really wanna get in touch with A CLU and like you guys like Yeah. Yeah. Been wanting to be on here forever, so. Oh, that's cool. We've been wanting to

Bonnie Violet: 44:02

work with you and connect with you, so we're excited that it's, yeah. That it's happening and getting to see you speak. I didn't think I've, you know, I've mostly seen you in drag, so, or you know, in between drag. Right, right, right. And so it was really cool to get a chance to like, see you on a panel Yeah. And sharing your experience. Um. As you know, as the person you are Yeah. In the place that we're at, you know, and, uh, it was just really powerful and I'm excited to get to hear more and see more and for more people to see and hear. Yeah. Um, what you have to say and what you have to share.

Tacoma: 44:40

Um, yeah, because, and for the longest time, I didn't think my story was worth sharing all that much, just because I didn't see a lot of me. In the community representing like who I am. But the more that you know, the more that I share, um, the more people come up and talk to me and appreciate my perspective, um, it helps keep pushing me forward, I guess. Yeah. Like I'm really excited to speak more. Yeah,

Bonnie Violet: 45:10

definitely. I'd love to see that. Yeah, definitely. We need more people like you, um, that are willing to just get out in front of people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't do it. Who is Right. Right. I know that's been kind of a little bit of, I think my mentality too.'cause in some ways I'm like, no, not me too. But it is like, but nobody's doing, you know, like I sat around for a while and it just felt like things weren't coming together. And so a lot of the reason why I started doing what I do and I still, the things that I do are things that I need myself. You know? Like I wish I wasn't so selfish, but a lot of the things that I am a part of creating or putting together. Are things that I need myself. Yeah. Like I need to get with people on a regular basis to get outta myself and to get outta my situation. I need to see, you know, hundreds of people celebrating trans and non-binary people in Idaho. Yeah. In order to feel better in the world. You know what I mean? And so, I don't know,

Tacoma: 46:08

I feel like there's like definitely a really big like feedback loop of that positivity of that want. To help yourself and to heal yourself. Um, kind of amplifies that need in other people mm-hmm. To want to heal themselves and help others heal.

Bonnie Violet: 46:25

Yeah. So, and definitely it's very

Tacoma: 46:26

important.

Bonnie Violet: 46:27

Yeah. And it's very reciprocal. Reciprocal, yeah. In the sense of like, we put ourselves out in what kind of might feel difficult ways or. Like, but in the, in what kind of comes back at you and what people share with you or what you learn about other people, or see how little things can impact people. It really just, it really feeds back into you in a way too. At least for me, that makes me feel a little bit better about doing it again, or even stretching a little bit further. Yeah. Into my discomfort. Um, yeah. Hmm. I'm excited to. It is like I got, it was like, we get you here. And I'm just like, so many things to talk about and it's like, yes. It's always interesting to see like where the conversation's gonna go. And I'm hoping that we can have you on here like as often as you want. My feeling is you have an open invitation. I think president's probably on board too. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, definitely.'cause I think there's, I think we've really only just hit the tip of the iceberg. Uh, yeah, yeah, in a lot of ways I, I haven't had a lot of conversations with you and so I'm really eager to get an opportunity to just have more conversations with you and be in Thank you. Be in spaces with you more. Me too. Definitely.

Pacey: 47:40

Yeah. Your perspective is very valuable. I know it's so different, like your experience is so different from mine, and I wanna be able to continue to learn and grow and learn how to be a better advocate. Um. And Ally and I'm sure like vice versa for all of us. Right? Yeah. Um, especially with this coming legislative session. Mm-hmm. I think it's gonna be, I know it's gonna be the worst one we've ever seen. It's gonna be really aggressive, like more than last year for sure. And I think that, yeah, really being able to get people together and to learn from each other's experiences and just support each other is gonna be the only way that we get through it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 48:24

And I, I think we're probably gonna be like rounding up the episode, but I wanted to give you an opportunity that if there's something you'd like to say either to folks, maybe other trans and non-binary folks that are feeling challenged. Or if you wanna, like, I mean, I don't know, there's something you'd like to say, uh, to folks who might come across this.

Tacoma: 48:44

Yeah. Um, to any and all trans queer youth, um, keep fighting, keep waking up. Keep showing up for yourself every day. Um, I said it before in the panel, but like, it's easy to do it happy. It's easy to do it when you're inspired, but do it angry, do it furious, do it sad, do it depressed. Just show up for yourself and do the work. Keep on living.

Bonnie Violet: 49:13

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I really liked when you said that it's almost like do it all wrong. Yes. As long as you do it. Yes. To some extent.

Tacoma: 49:20

Yeah. Because if you're willing to do it, then you know you're willing to grow. Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie Violet: 49:25

And we all get better with it in time. Yeah. Yeah.

Pacey: 49:30

Awesome. So much for being here. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah. I feel like that was a good episode. I feel like I learned some, so, and we'll have you back. Yes, definitely. I look forward to it. Well, that feels good. Yeah. All right. Is there anything coming up? I don't think so. Um.

Bonnie Violet: 49:49

It's a holiday and like yeah, 24th of July. I mean, we are gonna start planning the trans march. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's something to keep an eye out for. Like it's something we really have to hit the ground running with. Yep. Starting like now, um, being, it's just done September 5th and then, um. I know a lot of us are in talks and I kind of wanna put it out there, but like for next June? Next June, yeah. For us to have a festival, a trans festival. Yes. In Boise. Especially since all the gay shit is pushed to September. Mm-hmm. I think, I think a lot of folks will be craving, you know, and I think there's a lot of folks that kind of feel a little like left out, if you will. Right? Mm-hmm. Because there's everything happening everywhere else, which is great to go to other places, but mm-hmm I think it's a really great opportunity, probably for us to do. Yeah. A trans. Festival.

Pacey: 50:35

Yeah. Oh, a trans festival in Boise next June. It's gonna be amazing. Yeah, it's awesome. Restarting to planet and getting connections and I think it's gonna be really, really, you know, important and beneficial for

Bonnie Violet: 50:47

everyone here. I think even better than,'cause I know originally we were gonna try to do it this year with the march, but I think this is gonna be like an even better Yeah. Way of

Pacey: 50:55

doing it. And the link to sign up is in our link tree to sign up to volunteer for the march.'cause we're gonna need y'all. A lot of y'all. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Bonnie Violet: 51:02

definitely. Especially trans and non-binary people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We want this to be by and for us. Yeah. So yes, we love you allies and we're gonna need you, but we really need our folks to show up. Yeah, yeah. Alright. Cool. Alright. See you next week. Take care. Love you. Bye-Bye. Five bitches. Alright. Thanks for doing that. Yeah, of course. It's always. A journey, we should put together a panel.