The Hidden Brain Changes After Concussion (And How to Measure Them) with Jack Fonderwhite | E66

If concussion left you with brain fog, anxiety, poor sleep, or a lingering sense that something is “off,” an EEG may reveal the brain changes your normal scans missed. Dr. Ayla Wolf talks with acupuncturist and concussion specialist Jack Fonderwhite about using EEG, eye tracking, and electroacupuncture to measure and improve brain function after head injury. 

Jack shares his own unexpected concussion story—how years of martial arts, contact sports, and repeated head impacts left him with subtle neurological symptoms he didn't even recognize until an EEG revealed significant changes in his brain activity. After developing an acupuncture protocol for himself, he experienced improvements not only in his brainwave patterns, but also in anxiety, night vision, sense of smell, and overall mental clarity. 

Inspired by his own recovery, Jack created the Peak Mind program, a comprehensive evaluation and treatment approach that combines objective technology with personalized acupuncture care. Patients undergo advanced assessments including EEG, balance testing, eye movement analysis, cognitive testing, and orthopedic evaluation to create a highly individualized rehabilitation plan designed to improve brain efficiency and support neuroplasticity. 

Together, we discuss:

•  How repeated head impacts can cause concussion without loss of consciousness 
•  Jack's personal journey from martial artist to concussion specialist 
•  What EEG testing can reveal about brain function after concussion 
•  Electroacupuncture and its potential effects on brain activity and neuroplasticity 
•  Why objective measurements help patients better understand their symptoms 
•  The role of balance, eye movements, and cognition in recovery 
•  Anxiety, brain fog, night vision, and smell loss after concussion 
•  Integrating traditional Chinese medicine with modern neuroscience 
•  The future of concussion care and training more acupuncturists to treat brain injury 

One of the most inspiring messages from this conversation is that some concussion symptoms become so familiar that people stop recognizing them as symptoms at all. Sometimes it's only after the brain begins to heal that patients realize how much they had been compensating every single day.

Whether you're recovering from a concussion, you're a healthcare provider looking to expand your understanding of brain rehabilitation, or you're simply fascinated by the intersection of ancient medicine and modern neuroscience, this episode offers an exciting look at what's possible when objective technology and personalized care come together. 

Jack Fonderwhite - Jackupuncture: website

Email: info@jackupuncture.com

Instagram: @Jackupuncturehi

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Medical disclaimer: this video or podcast is for general informational purposes only, and does not constitute the practice of medicine or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor patient relationship is formed. The use of this information and materials included is at the user's own risk. The content of this video or podcast is not intended to be a substitute for medical advice diagnosis or treatment. Consumers of this information should seek the advice of a medical professional for any and all health related issues. 

Transcript

Cold Open On Brain Metrics

Jack Fonderwhite 1:05

They check on your brain's reaction voltage, so how much energy it's producing in response to a stimuli. And then we get your brain reaction time, how quickly does it initially respond versus how long does it take for you to physically respond, right?

Dr. Ayla Wolf 1:19

Welcome to Life After Impact, the Concussion Recovery Podcast. I'm Dr. Ayla Wolf, and I'll be hosting today's episode where we help you navigate the often confusing, frustrating, and overwhelming journey of concussion and brain injury recovery. This podcast is your go-to resource for actionable information. Whether you're dealing with a recent concussion, struggling with post-concussion syndrome, or just feeling stuck in your healing process, know that you are not alone. This podcast can be your guide and partner in recovery, helping you build a better life after impact. Well, aloha Jack Founder White.

Welcome And Mission Of The Show

Dr. Ayla Wolf 1:57

Welcome to Life After Impact.

Jack Fonderwhite 1:59

Aloha, thank you for having me.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 2:01

Yes, you have a Chinese medicine practice in Hawaii and you specialize in concussion recovery. You work with a lot of professional athletes. I would love to hear a little bit about your journey and how you ended up here. And then I would love to dive into your practice because it sounds like you use a lot of really cool tech and you've developed this amazing program that you use with your patients.

Jack Fonderwhite 2:26

Um yeah, so I guess first my background, right? Um so I was introduced to competition

Jack’s Sports Background And Injuries

Jack Fonderwhite 2:34

in martial arts when I was living in Japan, which is also where I was introduced to acupuncture. So I competed in kickboxing there for years. I also did um touch rugby, which even though it's touch, I got kicked in the face a couple of times, broke my nose. Um, so lots of physical contact there in the end, and marathons, which also led to some accidents here and there. So um my path to acupuncture was through sport, and then my path to acupunctur as an acupuncturist led me to specialize in concussion because of my own problems, right? Uh, we were talking before how um I really started concussion work and helping others with their brains because of what a doctor had showed me in my EEG that was going on with my brain. So um that's kind of like the short version of how all this came about was sports leading to my own injuries, and then me realizing that my patients had the same injuries, so figuring out how to help them with that, and it all just came together.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 3:33

Yeah, awesome. Um, do you mind going into what some of your symptoms were and what that EEG showed?

Jack Fonderwhite 3:40

Yeah, um so the EEG had shown basically like eight flat lines. Usually we would want to see something like an EKG where we have those the rises in intensity in lines. People might have seen that on TV. But in mine, there were eight areas where it was just kind of flat. And the doctor said, you know, this is kind of indicative of chronic concussion. You don't have much activity in these areas. And he kind of went down a list of different symptoms that I might be experiencing without him even knowing my history. Um he said, as I was telling you, one of the things that really stood out was

EEG Flat Lines And Hidden Symptoms

Jack Fonderwhite 4:11

um he said you're probably having issues with night vision. And for weeks I had been experiencing issues with night vision. I thought, wow, is this because I'm almost 40? Like it was just crazy bad how I couldn't see anything at night. Um and it was kind of scary. But when he told me that, I said, okay, if this is something having to do with my brain, and this doctor has called me into his office because of other patients' brains I had helped, then clearly I should be able to do something about this for myself. Um so I sat down, uh, thought about where I could needle myself, what I would want to do for this brain if it were my own patient's brain, um, looked at the literature. I even talked to some colleagues and developed a protocol to treat myself. Did that for a couple of weeks, went back to his office, and he said, Whatever you're doing is working, keep doing it. So I did it a little bit longer, came back, and not only was the data really, really good, I felt so much better and different. And some of the symptoms I had had, I didn't even know were symptoms until they were gone. So the thing that stands out to me was anxiety. I didn't know I was a person that had anxiety, was anxious, but usually going into the office, the first thing I'd have like a little bit of like discomfort or concern or just some sort of like like dark cloud or heaviness on me to some degree before working with patients. And then as the day flowed and things went well, I felt okay, but after treating myself, I remember one day stepping into the office and just being like, oh, cool. It there was no concern, nothing. And I realized, wow, I think that's what people call anxiety. And I'd had that for a long time. So not only was the night vision better, uh, but I just I felt clearer. There was no pressure in my head, no heaviness. Um so those were two of the things that really stood out to me, honestly. A lot of other things, uh my sense of smell came back. I would always have to push my face into flowers to smell them. Um, and if my wife and I went on a walk with the dogs, she's like, smell those flowers, and they'd be across the street. I was like, No, I can't smell anything. So we'd walk over and I'd smell them, but I could smell them from across the street now. So, you know, lots of different things happen when your brain's back online.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 6:29

That's so interesting what you say about the anxiety piece because I experienced the exact same thing. Um, I had a series of concussions, and over time I I think I developed a lot of anxiety, but I didn't know to call it that. It was also like you talk about, just this really like vague sense of gosh, I I just feel not comfortable in my own body and a little kind of on edge, and I it's something that I can kind of like work through, but I'm like always working through it. And then when it goes away or when it was gone, that's when I recognize like, oh my gosh, that used to be there all the time. And it was kind of interesting to recognize that for the longest time I'd had it and I didn't know that I'd had it.

Jack Fonderwhite 7:11

Yeah, so exact same thing for me, except for in my case, honestly, um, despite having fought and competed in kickboxing uh for years, I'd never been knocked out and never thought I had a concussion, honestly. So it wasn't until, you know, the doctor showing me something that I started thinking about. It's like, well, that would make sense, because I mean, I got, you know, the crap kicked out of me in mosh pits and and you know, rings. So this probably did impact my brain even if I wasn't knocked out. And then, you know, as I get into the literature and I'm I'm learning all these things and starting to work with uh other professionals in the space, it's like you don't have to be knocked out for it to be a concussion, so it all made sense.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 7:54

Yeah, yeah. And so what did you then do in terms of we start out kind of with the acupuncture, Chinese medicine training, and then all of a sudden we realize, oh my gosh, there's this entire world of neuroscience and and there's this whole way that we can use acupuncture to interface with the brain and the nervous system. So, what was that

Learning Concussion Science As A Clinician

Dr. Ayla Wolf 9:12

journey like for you? Kind of you starting to implement more of this into your practice, and then also like where did you go to kind of learn all this stuff?

Jack Fonderwhite 9:21

Uh, great question. So, you know, it started out initially as me. There was when I was in school getting my master's, I had done a um presentation on concussion. And that was like 2015, 2016, and there was barely any information I could find. It was like as though there's a a deluge of concussion literature. It was tough. So in my professional career, I didn't know where to go. Um, so I bought books um and then finally found Natasha Wilch, who had a patient-facing program. And so I she said, I don't have anything for providers, but you're welcome to like buy this program. So I bought the program and I started learning about concussion from the patient side first, um, and then just started thinking about, okay, within Chinese medicine, within what I've been taught in orthopedics, what would I be doing to help these systems? And then while starting to like cobble together my own approaches, um, Natasha then developed a concussion nerds, right, program uh for providers. So it was perfect. Uh she broke down all the pathophys, uh, all the assessments and things. And so I just started started applying everything to my patients. I started buying more books, started reading more, um, went through that entire curriculum, and that's that was the basis of it was just finding something online and just going that path, honestly.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 10:48

Awesome. And now you've developed a program called Peak Mind. Tell us a little bit about what that is and what that looks like, kind of from say a new patient coming in with a concussion. What what do they go through?

Jack Fonderwhite 11:00

Gotcha. Yeah. Um, so Peak Mind in the Inn is now what we would do for anyone where they have concussion, uh, they have like cognitive issues they want to deal with, PTSD or anxiety, stuff like that, because uh we're trying to get the brain into just a better place before we apply anything else. But what that looks like is we bring them in for a two-day evaluation. So it's two hours per day. The first day is all tech. We're looking at um EEG, balance and posturiography. We are looking at the eyes and what they're doing under uh different tasks. We're looking at the neck. So we have all this tech that we go through the first day to give us um give us data that the patient can see and understand, right? We're able to go over these reports. It's like, well, how did you feel? What did that seem like? And well,

Inside The Peak Mind Evaluation

Jack Fonderwhite 11:43

you know, this report showed that you'd probably be experiencing that, so it's not a big surprise, and help them kind of better understand things for themselves. Second day, we go through like more of a bedside assess assessment. So we go through the seven different systems that might be affected with concussion, um, plus a few others like primitive reflexes and things like that. Um and we just go step by step through each system and provide them a very, very thorough, comprehensive um assessment of their brain and their body and how the two are integrating. So we help them understand all those pieces and if they want to move forward with care, then we put them through a program of care of Peak Mind itself. So we then have scalp electrical acupuncture where we're bringing more blood to the brain, we're improving at their processing speed, we're actually improving their, you know, based on Wavi's findings, we're improving their brain reaction voltage. So we're giving that brain all the things it needs to already start improving itself, to uh be able to actually acknowledge uh errors and then start correcting for them and have the energy for that correction. And once all that foundation is nice and strong, if they want to continue, we then redo those assessments and we build out a program to help them build off of that momentum to further integrate those reflexes and other things they might need help with. So that's the whole plan. It might be a month long, it might be four months long.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 13:02

Yeah, awesome. And so you use the Wavi, and I have another colleague that has a Wavi as well. He has somebody, yes, Clayton, and he has somebody that comes to the clinic to actually administer the Wavi. Are you doing that yourself? Or do you have somebody oh, he's got a guy?

Jack Fonderwhite 13:19

I can do that myself the entire time. That's cool.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 13:21

Yeah, you need a guy, man.

Jack Fonderwhite 13:23

We're I've I've trained my wife. We met in school, she's also an acupuncturist, so she's doing that with me. So I have my lady. Uh, and we're actually we're going to train a tech um probably in a year or two to run people through that tech-based assessment so we can do more of the bedside and the care. Yeah.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 13:40

Got it. And with the Wavi, how often are you doing pre and post?

Jack Fonderwhite 13:46

So every case gets pre and post. So every time. So it it will be before they decide to go with Peak Mind, because I want them to see that data and at least know where they stand, right? Like your baseline is valuable. So that's why it's the initials separate from the actual program of care. But then at the end, uh the re-evaluation is all included as part of the program. So they just receive their Wavi at the end. Then if they want to be members, um, I have a whole program that I'm building out uh with curriculum and all that to continue to collect data over time while patients are you know changing their lifestyle. They're doing some different exercises and uh following basically like the guide that we have to making sure their brain's doing the best as possible. So we will um have biannual EEGs. We were doing quarterly, but patients were missing them. So yeah, to save on that expense, but also provide them that data, we do that. We also do we use Krayos. Um I'm collecting uh a bunch of different cognitive tests and information from them playing games at home basically. And we collect data throughout the entire span of things, but the EEG is just once or twice a year outside of the program itself.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 14:54

And can you talk about some of the changes that you're seeing on those WAVI EEGs when you're doing the pre and the post?

Jack Fonderwhite 15:02

Yeah, so uh if people aren't familiar with what WAVI is or what it does, is it's looking at the electrical activity of the brain, and there's uh several different metrics it's capturing because we understand that these types of tests that people are doing, we understand how the brain is supposed to be functioning. So they have really great reports, it's really easy to read, but they check on your brain's reaction voltage, so how much energy it's producing in response to a stimuli. Um, and then we get your brain reaction time, how quickly does it initially respond versus how long does it take for you to physically respond, right? Um so and then uh we see a coherence map, uh, and then we'll see where the energy is. And a brain that is going through these tests should have the electricity somewhat in the central parietal region. So the energy mostly should be here. What we see for concussion, for example, is oftentimes much of the energy will be produced in the frontal lobe and it's pushing backwards. So there's like this big red warm bloom that pushes to a colder brain in the back. Usually by the time patients are done with us, that warmth is traveling more towards the center or is in the middle, and so their brain is functioning much more efficiently. On top of that, we generally will see uh the brain reaction voltage improve somewhere between like four to eight microvolts, uh, which is significant. Usually it's like one to two uh microvolt difference between day to day. So we get clinically significant data there and results there. We see brain reaction times improve and we will see the physical reaction times improve. So most of those metrics will pretty consistently improve, depending on how many concussions the patients had. So

What WAVI Shows Pre And Post

Jack Fonderwhite 16:36

I have some patients who come to us after, you know, successive concussions, somewhat close in time, and we may see some of those things not come online as quickly as we would might like, um, but we always see some of those metrics consistently improve. It just always depends on the person and their sleep, honestly, to some degree, right?

Dr. Ayla Wolf 16:58

Yeah, yeah. Uh you know, that's one of the areas where I think there needs to be so much more research is in looking at the use of acupuncture to help modulate some of this brainwave activity. And so I think uh there's probably a great opportunity for you to write a case series putting all this uh on paper.

Jack Fonderwhite 17:18

Yeah, with all the data, I definitely I know I should. I have plenty of colleagues who want to help. And there's actually um a nurse here who is also a university professor and um in nursing, sh we worked with her daughter, and she was so impressed and happy with the results because her daughter is in a bad place um that she wants to bring in her students to like run through my data and like help put together things, like basically like speed this whole process up to us expanding and doing more help. She's even um started a nonprofit that's gonna launch in a few months. Then they're going to be collecting grants and donations to get concussed youth to come to us. So we're gonna work together to like make this care more available and more accessible to them. And then from there, I'm assuming she has plans to then you know look at that data and then put together case series and uh other studies like that.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 18:08

Yeah, amazing. That sounds incredible. Okay, well, you live on an island. What are the what are the main sources of concussions in Hawaii?

Jack Fonderwhite 18:18

Yeah, good question. Um, well, uh surfing. We're always gonna see him as surfing. And if people don't know much about uh Hawaii itself, we're sometimes referred to as MMA Island. There's uh just a ton of combat sports gyms here. So whether it be MMA, whether it be Muay Thai, whether it be Taekwondo, jiu-jitsu, um martial arts has a home here, for sure. Um I work with professional fighters, so um a lot of the concussions I see come from that. Um but also uh all the other sports that you would see. Uh soccer. I have, you know, plenty of cases from soccer, some basketball, some volleyball, football, baseball. It's coming from all of the sports, but here in Hawaii, we then have that additional layer of just like uh uh a legacy or history of uh combat sports. We have BJ Penn that came from here. We have Max Holloway, who is still competing at the top of the game, um things like that that really it's a part of the culture where combat is happening either in the streets or in the gyms, and uh I end up seeing them when they are hurt.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 19:24

Yeah. Got it. And then I'm assuming not as much hockey.

Jack Fonderwhite 19:31

No, yeah, no, yeah, it's funny. When I do see colleagues uh talking about uh all the concussions they see in hockey, it's like I've I've been on the ice once or twice in my life. Uh we we have we have we do have a rink here, but I have never met a hockey player, you know. Just haven't hasn't crossed

Research Plans And Youth Access

Jack Fonderwhite 19:50

my my feet or my my path in the clinic at all. It would be all those sports plus uh surfing, but if if I'm honest, even when it comes to surfing, a lot of the surfers overlook it or don't think about the the impact that the sport itself is having on their brain and what the the whiplash can do. Um so I don't see that as much, even though I know it's it's out there. It's it's it's quite prevalent among that um that population. When I do work with them for orthopedics like their shoulder or their neck, I mean all the red flags, all the signs are there, and I'll tell them it's like, hey, there's other things we could and should be doing for you. They they don't care so much.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 20:28

So I I can understand that. And I know what it's like to have a surfboard smack me in the back of the head uh in the ocean. So I can imagine that happens more than more than one might think.

Jack Fonderwhite 20:41

How about you? Where you are? Is are you seeing a lot of like hockey concussions? Where where where is yours coming from? What are your sources?

Dr. Ayla Wolf 20:48

Mm-hmm. For sure. Hockey, volleyball, cheerleading, horseback riding, motor vehicle accidents, and of course slips and falls on the ice are a big one. Um sadly, I've had assaults and and violence. Um so and those are always just really sad to to see.

Jack Fonderwhite 21:07

Yeah, that happens here too. We we reach out them um with us being an island and being small, events like that

Concussion Sources In Hawaii And Beyond

Jack Fonderwhite 21:14

end up on the news, and so we've reached out to individuals who there was um you know, little side topic here. There was a uh lifeguard who saw a boy get beat up by like a a group of like 20 kids. Um he jumped in and tried to help that boy, and he himself got pretty beat up. So we reached out to them to say, hey, you know, we understand there's probably gonna be some need for ongoing care. Reach out to us, we'll we'll help you through that. So um those types of incidents um sometimes also are how we find people. Yeah.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 21:45

Yeah. Yeah. And then talk to me about your style of acupuncture. Uh are you doing mostly electroacupuncture on the scalp initially?

Jack Fonderwhite 21:55

Yeah. Um de I will say I guess I specialize in electroacupuncture. Like that is the path that I found to be most consistent, easy enough to explain to patients to have to understand, like, hey, we're gonna be doing this, these types of changes are seen to happen. Um so most of my care is electro in nature. I'm always applying stems somewhere and somehow, whether it be through my Ito or my pointer plus. Um so I will put patients through an orthopedic uh assessment after going through their intake, um, trying to find and identify what muscles aren't working well. I'll get them going first, assuming that their case in their nervous system is one that is going to respond well to electro. If not, then we're going to go, you know, old school. Um and I probably won't be needling muscles right away. I'm gonna calm the nervous system first, I'm gonna get blood flowing, and I'm gonna make sure that we're feeling safer and doing better before we then needle the muscles directly, with them being sympathetic fibers. So um, I have like this this mind that thinks about things in that way. What am I seeing in the patient and their symptoms? What is the body telling me to understand what the best approach is? But I will uh rely heavily on electroacupuncture when it's when it's best. Um so that is what I do. Um that said, I have a man who um, due to some poorly healed surgeries and probably some bad surgeries, he's had uh numbness and tingling in his legs for years, but he has a pacemaker, so I'm not doing electro. I'm just I'm needling the spine, I'm needling the muscles, I'll piston them at the end, so

Electroacupuncture Choices And Safety

Jack Fonderwhite 23:29

a little bit of dry kneeling type of things, and he's doing much better. He's barely using his cane now, he's walking really fast and just kind of carrying it. Um so the needles work. It it doesn't matter how we do it, it's just making sure that we're applying the right technique to the right case, right? I mean, needles are needles.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 23:48

Yeah. I had a patient once who was hit by lightning, and it was like you put your hands on him and you felt like and so I was like, yeah, no electricity for you. Like really. It was crazy. Yeah, yeah.

Jack Fonderwhite 24:02

Okay.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 24:03

Well, what else do you want to talk about that we haven't haven't touched on?

Jack Fonderwhite 24:08

Well, there you know, there's a lot going on. So um I've been working with a lawyer to get uh Peak Mind trademarked and jackpuncture trademarked because I am gonna be teaching this. Um it's it's simple enough. It is consistent, it is life-changing that I people right now are traveling to Hawaii for me. So I just had a family from Washington. The month before that, I had a family from Utah, I've had people from Tokyo, Costa Rica, New Mexico, um, California, New York, um, Texas, like coming. And while it's great and cool to be sought after, I really think it's unfair to expect everyone to keep coming. Uh that just adds on more cost to their care, which means they might not seek it. So um I'm building out a training program and a certification process for other acupunctures to make like hopefully just a weekend long thing where we can get you through a boot camp of what to be doing, how to adjust and um needle based on the patient's experience with electricity, because not everyone's gonna be used to that, whether on the provider side or the patient's side. Um and the goal is to to train others. So Natasha uh will be coming out in October. I think I might actually uh be spilling some secrets, but I'm gonna be training her. She's gonna be the first person I train on Peak Mind. So we're gonna have a location in Canada and this location here in Hawaii, and from there we'll start growing peak mind so that people, whether they've been concussed or they're just having some cognitive issues or anxiety and depression, we're helping brains, and a lot of brains need this. So that's

Training Other Providers And Brain Longevity

Jack Fonderwhite 25:47

something I've been working on this whole last year to put together. And I'm building out a full program for patients who have gone through it. Um, a curriculum that's actually based on the Lancet's uh 2024 commission on the modifiable factors for dementia, and just taking that as our roadmap to say, hey, every brain needs these things, whether you've been concussed, whether you're concerned about dementia, or whether you just want to experience the best you that you could experience, that brain needs to be on point. And there's a roadmap here. So we're building out a full, like year-long thing to support people uh there too. So lots of things going on, honestly.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 26:23

Yeah, no, that's super exciting. That sounds incredible.

Jack Fonderwhite 26:27

Yeah.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 26:27

And will you be doing the trainings in Hawaii?

Jack Fonderwhite 26:30

Yeah. Yes, yeah. We'll be training here in Hawaii. I I yeah, I think that's like what better excuse for providers to to come and visit the islands, have a little vacation, and leave home with some skills that are gonna, you know, immediately provide a great ROI and for the clinic and for the patients. Like there's just it's a huge win-win, I think, honestly. So yes, the the next step in the year, next year or two is we get all the legal stuff done. It's almost all completed there. Um, and from there we just start advertising and see if people are interested. And um I'm assuming they would be.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 27:05

Yeah, yeah. And I think there'll be a lot of interest. That's awesome. Very cool. Well, why don't you tell people where they can find you now that you just mentioned you do have people that are traveling to work with you?

Jack Fonderwhite 27:17

Yeah. Um, so jacupuncture.com. Uh that's the website. It's being updated right now, so it might look different if you visit last month to next month. Uh on Instagram, Jacupuncture H I for Hawaii, so at Jacupuncture H I. Um, and if anyone wants to work with me, they can email me, jack at jacupuncture.com, or they can text 808-726-9241. Just get a hold of me. Um, we're happy to work with anyone.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 27:44

Love it. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time.

Jack Fonderwhite 27:47

Thanks for having me. I was really happy to have you reach out. Um, I have your book. Uh, I respect your work. I've taken one of your classes in vestibular from Kerrick Institute two years ago, three years ago. Um, so you are part of the whole like, how do I keep learning these things? And to find an acupuncturist who's doing the things I was doing is awesome. As I'm reading your book, I'm like, oh yeah, we do that, we do that. Like, this is this is exactly this is the roadmap, this is the guide for acupuncturists to take these tools that we have um and really do greater work than I think we are taught in school, and uh don't even understand that we could be having such a greater impact if we understood this particular condition, for example, right? So uh good on you for making that book available. Very cool.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 28:30

Oh, well, thank you. And it's always good to just build that community of like-minded people who are you know on the same page with really appreciating and navigating the complexity of concussion recovery. So definitely want to keep in touch with you, and I'm gonna be excited to see about all this other

Where To Find Jack And Closing

Dr. Ayla Wolf 28:49

fun stuff you have in the works.

Jack Fonderwhite 28:52

Excellent. Thank you. Have a good day. Be well. You too.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 28:54

All right.

Jack Fonderwhite 28:55

Bye.

Dr. Ayla Wolf 28:56

Bye. Medical disclaimer. This video or podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor-patient relationship is formed. The use of this information and materials included is at the user's own risk. The content of this video or podcast is not intended to be a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment, and consumers of this information should seek the advice of a medical professional for any and all health related issues. A link to our full medical disclaimer is available in the notes.