The lowLIFE Interviews: Surrendering to Revelationship w/ Cathy Garland (Audio Only)

In this compelling episode, DL the lowLIFE hosts Cathy Garland, pastor’s kid turned author whose journey reveals how God breaks religious tradition to birth a real, personal revelationship with Jesus. Cathy courageously shares how she escaped spiritual abuse and embraced true freedom in Christ. Tune in for this raw, faith‑building conversation on surrender, healing, identity, and authenticity in your walk with God.

Tune in and come walk with us as we seek Revelationship.

Follow the link below to learn more about Cathy Garland and her book Revelationship.

https://www.revelationship.net/

🎁 GIVEAWAY ALERT!

We’re giving away a free copy of Revelationship: Transformative Intimacy With Christ—winner The Regal Summit award in Christian Nonfiction and Self-Help in 2025.

To enter:

1) Follow The lowLIFE Show on IG @livingthelowlifeshowIG

2) Follow Cathy Garland (@gracefullgarlands on Instagram or Threads)

3) Share your favorite moment from this episode or leave a quick review in the comments

We’ll choose one winner next week!

Chapters

• 0:46 Opening Prayer
• 2:11 Episode and Guest Intro
• 2:56 Chapter 1- Testimony
• 7:33 Chapter 2- Deconstructing Faith
• 12:29 Chapter 3- Walking Through Surrender
• 16:13 Chapter 4- Burnout
• 17:20 Chapter 5- Coming to Jesus Moment
• 19:02 Chapter 6- Absolute Surrender
• 20:24 Pause for The Cause: Weekly Challenge
• 21:24 Chapter 7- Peeling Back The Layers
• 23:57 Chapter 8- ALL Excludes Nothing
• 26:19 Chapter 9- A Word For The Listener
• 30:55 Chapter 10- He Does The Equipping
• 33:25 Chapter 11- Revelationship
• 37:47 Chapter 12- God Doesnt Play Favorites
• 39:15 Chapter 13- Where to Find Cathy
• 40:45 Chapter 14- Advising on Surrender
• 44:55 Closing Thanks and Prayer
• 47:52 Outro

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to The Low Life Show, a space where we have conversations about the struggles of life, where we declare war on pride and walk humbly into renewed living with a surrendered heart, where we take our past failures and turn them into a roadmap for you to live in peace and living the low life. Whether you're working through personal struggles or simply seeking a fresh perspective, this podcast will inspire and equip you to live low and let God lift you up. I'm your host, DL the Lowlife, a reformed professional dirtbag who's here to tell you that I now live a life of peace transformed through humility. Join me. Let's get low.

SPEAKER_02: 0:46

Lord Jesus, we are so grateful that your promises that you will never leave us, you will never forsake us, no matter what we face. And Lord, as you lead us through the journey, whether it's to rescue us from Egypt and by your own power, by your own might, by your own wings, you draw us out of Egypt. You do what you have to do in order to win us. You bring us out into the desert where you meet us and you equip us and then you send us into the promised land, but you go with us into the promised land. And then we can take hold of all the things that you have promised thriving in your presence because it's not about the land. It's not about our goals. It's not about our purpose. purpose here on earth it's about your presence and that is the purpose pouring out your presence on this earth reversing what the fall did so that once again like we see in the story of revelation at the very end when you announce finally the dwelling of God is with man that is what we're after the dwelling of God is with man so Lord we are so grateful that you have orchestrated everything single person's story in order to pour out your presence and reverse the curse thank you for that in jesus name

SPEAKER_00: 2:12

jesus name amen thank you thank you well welcome to the lowlife show i am your host dl the lowlife and today we have a special guest we have miss kathy garland kathy is the author of revelationship she is a prayer warrior a lover of theology a suffering coach a deliverance advocate speaker writer, chief marketing officer, a wife, a mother, and a lover and friend of Jesus. Kathy, welcome.

SPEAKER_02: 2:40

Thank you for having me. I'm excited. This is going to be great.

SPEAKER_00: 2:45

I agree. Well, let's just dive right in. Tell us about yourself, Kathy. Tell us where your journey started and how this came about, where you've become this person that I see before me today.

SPEAKER_02: 2:56

You know, I think what people would love to know mostly is that I grew up in church and I am a pastor's kid, but I'm not one of those pastor's kids. I did not. You laugh. Everybody laughs because we know what I'm talking about. I have been raised by truly authentic pastors. people who love God and love people. And all six of us kids and later three more adopted kids, nine of us in total, love God and love people. And I think that's a testament to my parents' faith. But as I grew up in the church, it was hard. I will admit, there were people who wronged me, wronged my family. Church abuse is a real thing because church attracts people who are broken, and broken people break people. I mean, that's what they do. So when I was about 13 or so, I really began to question whether or not this form of religion, aka Christianity, was what I wanted to pursue. And so I went to my dad and my mom and said, I'm not sure this thing is for me. And instead of panicking, which I think a lot of people would do, they saw it as a healthy form of growing up and maturing. So they, my dad, took me to the library and we checked out a stack of books that was as tall as I was. I mean, it was massive. And I studied all the major religions and quite a few of the non-major religions to assess logically, reasonably, is this a better way? And at the end of my 13th year, I came to the conclusion that this was the best way And that, by far, and that the Jesus who was revealed in Scripture was real, and he wanted a relationship with me particularly. And that's important, because when you're growing up in church, you're singing, Jesus loves me, Jesus loves the whole wide world, everybody in it. You get this sort of like... loosey-goosey sort of love that's just kind of poured out on the earth. But does he actually love me? Does he call me? Does he want me? And so that... personal relationship began the reconstruction journey where I disregarded what I would call traditions made of men sometimes and held and clinged to the things that I could prove were real, what Christ said himself, what he revealed in the Old Testament, etc. So that's kind of my reconstruction journey, mostly looking for the revelation of who God is because My identity is completely based on who He is. And I think in church we used to have a saying, and I think it was stupid really just to go around saying it. We said, know who you are in Christ. I didn't know who God was in order to know who I was. So it became absolutely necessary to know who He is. If He is the God who sees me, El Roy, That's what Elroy means. It's a Hebrew word, the God who sees me. Hagar said it. You are the God who sees me. If he is the God who sees me, then I am seen. That is my identity. And so a lot of people are going around with a clipboard trying to check off all their identity boxes when they've lost the very root of their identity, which is in who God is and who he says he is in that revelation. So that was my reconstruction journey.

SPEAKER_00: 6:41

That's amazing. That's amazing. I think it's very important to note that your parents didn't try to stop you from finding God in the way that you did, right? A lot of times we find in the churches, oh, you can't do that because then that's worshiping other idols. That's seeking idols. That's doing something that is not pleasing to God. But if it's a journey and a path that helps you find him and a relationship with him, then it's like the end justifies the means, right? As you were speaking, I was reminded of that song, Jesus loves me, this I know, right? And I feel like that's exactly what you were talking about. It's for the Bible tells me so, but the relationship you have with him is Jesus loves me, this I know, because he himself told me so.

SPEAKER_01: 7:30

Correct.

SPEAKER_00: 7:30

Right. And that's, that's a beautiful thing. So walking through the, the deconstruction, right. What did that look like? I mean, was there, were there, there would have, I would assume because there's a lot of attractive things in these different religions, right? Ooh, this one allows me to do this. This one allows me to do that. Or was your sole purpose just to find Jesus?

SPEAKER_02: 7:55

I think my sole purpose was to find what was true. So real things, true things match real things. And so I needed to know what was real. And part of the reason that a lot of people kind of fall away from the church is because they've experienced what is not real within the church. So they'll experience hypocrisy or they'll experience keeping the law in order to get holiness. But holiness is not about keeping the law. Holiness is an opportunity to dwell with God. That's what's real. He says, be holy. for I am holy, because I want to dwell with you. Not because He doesn't want you to eat shrimp. He wants you to be with Him, and He can't be with you if you're hiking up your skirts, as the Bible uses the sort of whoring techno words, hiking your skirts chasing after everything the world offers or elbowing your way to every freedom it wasn't about freedom so I did look at all the different religions and consider you know okay this says this and this says this what's true and there were some religions that were really kind of easy to get rid of so and totally disregard for example the Muslim religion as a woman that is pretty out for me because you know I'm going to drive and we're not doing all the things so that's That was a pretty quick elimination. But you're right. Buddhism has some things to it. You're kind of like, oh, okay. But you dig a little surface and you find out, this is not real. It's not actually reality. And so I don't want something that I have to switch what's real and force a non-reality on my reality. That's the problem with Buddhism in most cases. And you said, you know, my parents didn't panic. But the reason they didn't panic is because the Bible says if you ask, seek, and knock, you're going to find him. That's what he guarantees. And deconstruction, I think... think right now people are afraid of it they don't like this word they're not sure how to define it but deconstruction is simply taking things down to the studs the foundation and the the support systems that are real the rest of it is facade and it's it's a time-honored christian tradition martin luther deconstructed Catholicism. And quite frankly, the disciples deconstructed Judaism. So this is a time-honored tradition, and I think people are afraid of it mostly because they haven't answered the deep questions within themselves. So they're... not sure they're going to be able to answer their kids' questions. But I highly recommend that they do it together and train children like I have kids. I'm training them to ask questions because I can't be afraid of questions because what's real can withstand questioning.

SPEAKER_00: 10:53

Amen. Amen. Yeah. And as you were talking and you hit on it right as I was hearing it in my head was train up a child in the way he or she should go. And you found yourself on this path. So it's like you're allowing them the space to discover Christ revealed to them. And I love the authenticity of what you're talking about. It's like, that was easy to just shed that one. This one does sound good, but it's... And at the end of the day, Jesus says he's the truth. So what you find is... is that right so if you look through this this it's an interesting thing i saw this quote the other day and they talked about this guy was talking about you know uh he had studied like you all the religions right and what he found was that though not all of the religions call jesus who we call him they all revere him so there's something to that right Like he is the only thing that every religious group has a respect for. He's the only person that they will revere. They might say, oh, he was just a good person, but they're still calling him good. They might say he was just a prophet, but they're still giving him the office of prophet, right? So I love that you were able to go through all of those things. And what came out at the end was like you said, you were searching for truth and you found the truth. You found Jesus, right? And so that's a, That's a beautiful thing. And it leads me to wonder, surrender is a very important thing in life. We've discussed this a little bit. It's very important. I've seen with what you teach, with how you live, with what your foundation is, and the surrendering, what I'm seeing is like surrendering of identity that we literally have to do, right? Like who we've formed ourselves to be in exchange for who he says we are, right? So let's talk a little bit more about that. What was that surrendering like for you? So you've gone through all of these things and you've basically surrendered the notions that you were taught, right? In lieu of a pursuit of who he is, right? What happened after that? Let's talk through the surrendering in that and then how that felt. There may have been a level of shock. I mean, I know for me, when I, as I started growing into this intimacy with the father, I find that a lot of the things that I was taught were not right. Not to say that they were not well-intended, not to say that they weren't out of love, but they are just, it's not who he is, right? And I feel like it forced me to almost be trapped in a box and feel as though I couldn't be me because of these things. So what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_02: 13:52

I agree. I mean, growing up in a Southern charismatic church, sometimes fads and laws, I'll call them laws, will kind of blow through the church. But, you know, one of them was that women had to wear skirts. And I was like, what? where's that in the Bible, you know? And I am a Bible nerd now. So, I mean, I'm a self-proclaimed Bible nerd. So, I'm asking my dad, where is that in the Bible? Why do I have to do this? This seems to be this thing that everybody's assuming is modest, you know, or something. And like, oh, yeah, you know, it was the time when they were saying things like modest is hottest. And I hate that saying with the loathing that I cannot tell you. So, I asked him, where is this in the Bible? And he said, It's not. Then I said, I'm out. I'm not doing it. So legalism is keeping a set of rules that God does not require from you and assuming it's going to work in you holiness. Holiness is only worked out one way. Holiness is worked out by proximity with the Holy Spirit. So I have the dwelling of the Holy Spirit within me. I spend time with the Holy Spirit. We become intimate like you're talking about. Holiness is brought out from within, out. And so I had to really understand and grab onto that intimacy. What happened for me was as I progressed in leadership in the church, and I found myself married very young. Again, it was the purity culture, and we didn't date, and I married very young, and then I found myself divorced, and I found myself with two miscarriages, and all the things that I was not expecting. Like, you know, when you dot your I's and cross your T's, you assume that you're gonna get something like the American dream with the picket fences and the kids and the chickens, but you don't, not always. And so I was heartbroken and just trying to find my way to what God wanted me to do. And I was driving home in Atlanta when one of those storms, if you have ever been in Atlanta, they just pop up and you're stuck And it's just like downpouring. You can't see in front of you. And I was very... down from what I was experiencing I had a job in the Hollywood industry marketing that was kind of being birthed in Atlanta and I just come from a party and it just was like look you know and I just felt why am I here and I don't like what I'm doing I don't love this I'm I'm still doing my devotions I'm still attending church three times a week at least I'm still participating in ministry okay I'm doing all the things and And I was just driving home with this blah. And I said, Lord, will you just make a tree fall on top of me and just take me home? And he spoke. out of my passenger seat of my car. I had never heard his audible voice before. I'd heard it in my heart. I was pretty sure it was him. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, the whole thing. But it was so startling, I almost crashed into a tree. Okay, so that's how audible it was. And I pulled over on the side of the road. And I had a come-to-Jesus moment, as we call it, in the South. And I said, we're going to have a conversation because I've been serving you all these years, and you've never once spoken like this to me before. And after that, he didn't speak out loud, but I didn't need to hear him out loud because now I knew which voice in my head was his. And he said the words. Here's the words he said to me. He said, if you don't want your life, I do. I've been serving him. I assumed my life was his. What? So I said, okay, we're going to have a conversation. And he said, I want you to surrender to me. And he put in the word, the name of my boyfriend. And so I said, done. He said, I want you to surrender me your job. I said, done. And so he would ask me for these things. I grew up in church where people would say, yield. which is a traffic term, and I have no idea what that means. I am a great driver, but I still don't know what yield means other than in traffic. So people would say, oh, I yielded that to the Lord, but then I took it back. I'm like, well, That's not very efficient. So I said, all right, I surrender. I'm going to exchange. And I understand as a Southern woman that I'm going to get the best of any deal offered to me because that is what Southern women do. So I said, if I give you my life, what are you going to give me for it? And so we did this exchange thing. And that was the beginning of what I would consider absolute surrender. And he led me to this slim little book in my grandmother's hippie resources. You know, my parents were hippies. So they were hippies. basically redeemed and saved during the whole jesus movement and so it's like pea soup green book called absolute surrender by andrew murray and it was life-changing and it was talking about this is the power source that you're missing if you go up and down up and down up and down and as a christian at camps in the summer that's what happened i would go on the high and then i would come on the low and then i would come on high and low high and low so this was the thing that gave me consistent revival in my life.

SPEAKER_00: 19:34

Yeah, that's a real thing, the church camp thing, right? Mountain top moments, when you come back down to the valley and you're back doing all the things that you were doing that you thought you gave up, right? That you would probably, I guess we can use a term that we had yielded, but not surrendered, right? Not completely given up. Wow, I'm taken back a little bit. I'm just like, So I wonder that this is a symptom that we probably see in church. I'm probably guilty of it myself, where we're doing all the things, right? God, I serve on Sundays. I'm in our prayer rooms. God, I lead a Bible study. I'm doing all of these things, and I'm checking every single box. God, my life is not yours yet. So we do this thing here in the Low Life Show, and I think you've probably heard it. It's a pause for the cause, right? This is going to be our pause for the cause. You've just inspired that. So for our listeners out there, if you're listening to this, for those who might be watching this, this is your pause for the cause, your weekly, daily, monthly, moment-to-moment challenge. And it's this. Search within your life, within your areas of service, and seek... an answer to truly, is your life really given to God? Or are you just checking a box? Are you trying to get something as an exchange from him, trying to manipulate the Lord into doing something that you want? Or are you just doing what he wants? Ask yourself this question and be brave enough, bold enough to accept whatever it is he tells you and to surrender it completely. That's your challenge for the week. Okay, Kathy, so you've found this this moment with god he spoke to you he said surrender you began to surrender now i i'm sure our listeners are going to be wondering this question so i'm going to ask was that a one and done or do you still find yourself surrendering things

SPEAKER_02: 21:43

So that's a very good question. It was like a layer, like onions sort of peeling layer, layer, layer. And then all of a sudden, when I found that book by Andrew Murray, it was an absolute. So absolute surrender is white flag. I'm all in. So the only wholehearted response to God revealing himself in our need is surrender absolutely. absolute surrender. We think of surrender as giving up, throwing in the towel, and it is in a way, but in the context of the creation, us, and our need for our all-powerful God, surrender is the only option. So our best strivings, our check marks come to nothing in comparison with His holiness. There's no partially saved. There's no partially surrendered. Surrender is the all-in choice. So that is a one and done. I'm all in. So the holy God we serve calls us to surrender our all because he's worthy of it all. And grace, grace himself, Christ, ensures that his purpose, his all, becomes my all in all. And that's the plan. And it was the plan from the beginning. So at that point, it was no longer a consistent day to day thing. It was all in. So now it's my posture. So if I could use that term. So my posture is when he comes to me and points out something in my life that maybe I overlooked in surrender, or I have new things in my life, like a book that I've written, or a place to speak, or my children. He puts his finger on it, but my posture and my immediate response is, oh, yes, that's surrendered. It's yours. It's no longer, oh, I've got to struggle to give it to you, and we're going to have to kind of wrestle a little bit. No, no, no. No, no, no. I'm all in. It's yours.

SPEAKER_00: 23:57

Wow. Wow. You know, the beauty of that is my grandfather, he was a minister. And there's one thing, if you ask any of my cousins, my siblings, any of his grandkids, anyone that knew him, right? He was big on the word all, right? Big on making sure people knew what it meant. He said, all means including everything and excluding nothing. So when you talk about surrendering our all because he's worthy of it all, it's like how many things do we withhold? When we think we're giving him our all, but then we go home because we want to watch football. That's not giving him our all then because we want to reserve that time that we could be spending with him. Not to say that we shouldn't enjoy our leisure times, but if we have football as a priority on a Sunday, for example. Again, not to say that the battle is only done in church on Sundays. But Sunday, for example, that's football season, right? If we're in a hurry to get out of the sanctuary, as soon as the pastor says amen, because we're missing a football game, we're not giving him our all. Our attention is already diverted before we walked into the sanctuary, right? I want to circle back because I think this is very important. And it just dawned on me that, okay, so you're in the car when you heard God's voice. You asked him to have a tree fall on you. So you were, by all intents and purposes, defeated in that moment, right? Here's what's funny. It was during a storm, right? And so this, I would say, I want to speak up to this for those of our listeners who might be going through storms or, as David found, right, might find themselves in a wilderness where it's like, oh my gosh, God, this sucks. Everything is terrible. How would you advise our listeners to respond to that? Now, Obviously I wouldn't, I don't know me, I wouldn't advise them to say, to pray for God to have a tree fall on their car when they're in their wilderness moments. But I'm sure there are some who have done that. I know in my, in the beginning when I caught fire most recently, right? I had a gun to my head and I was gonna kill myself and I found myself in a prayer room instead the next day. So prayer obviously has something to do with this wilderness time. In your wilderness and in your experience with that, how would you advise our listeners who may be sitting there saying, wow, I'm in that car right now and I want that tree?

SPEAKER_02: 27:21

Yes, and you're right. That's exactly where I was, in suffering or wilderness. You can use the same word, suffering and wilderness. And the interesting thing is that everybody you meet is either coming out of suffering and wilderness or going into a suffering and wilderness or right in smack in the middle of one. Everyone you meet. Okay, so there's only one instruction that we have for when we're in a wilderness season, and that is to look for the mountain of God.

SPEAKER_01: 27:50

Look

SPEAKER_02: 27:50

for the mountain of God, go there and meet him. The presence of God is the purpose of the wilderness. So when we go through suffering, when we are in a place of wilderness and struggling, suffering, it's to reveal what is real. When I am suffering, when I lost my child or a miscarriage and my second child and my first husband and I'm struggling and I have car accident and I break my neck. Okay, so I'm just listing some things. I've been through it. Okay. When I'm going through those things, I don't care about my hair. I don't care about my makeup. I don't care about my neighbors. I don't care about anything except what is real and what is true. And that's the purpose of the wilderness. Christ spent a lot of time in the wilderness. And I was raised in what I would call sort of prosperity gospel adjacent. It wasn't prosperity gospel, but it was kind of adjacent to that. And so what would happen is people would say, if you're going through suffering or wilderness, God must have done something to you. He wants you to learn a lesson or something. Maybe you have done something wrong. And that can't be true. I mean, our own stupid mistakes can send us into a wilderness season. I'm not saying that it's not possible. Evaluate that. It's possible. Your own dumb decisions can lead you to a bad place. Okay, granted. But for the vast majority of people, they're in the wilderness to find God, to lay hold of God. That's what he wants. And Christ went out in the wilderness. He did not make dumb decisions. He went out there for a reason because he could lay hold of God. The quiet, the sounds, the bings, the dings, the city life, the pulls and the tugs, the disciples arguing, whatever it is. He had silence out there so he could reconnect with God. That's important. King David spent an enormous amount of his life in the wilderness. And we know God said he's a man after my own heart. So there's a reason for you to spend time. in the wilderness, and it's not necessary to learn a lesson. I don't agree with that. Sometimes you're going to learn lessons. That's sort of a byproduct of it. You're going to get hardened and ready for war for what you have to do next. That's fine. But that's not why you're there. You're there to connect with God. And there is a test. The test is connect with me at the mountain of God, dwell with me, And then obey me. Obedience is the test. It's not some trick question test. It's an open book test. God wants us to give him our all. And that's why you're there.

SPEAKER_00: 30:43

Wow. Wow. Yeah. I love the language that you put to that, right? And it's not, I love how there's no, There's no doubt in that. You know, a lot of times people will say, when they're speaking about something, it sounds more like they're asking a question, right? It's like, God wants you to connect with him? And no, God wants you to connect with him. He wants a relationship with you. He wants to shape you and mold you, right? We find that the wilderness is that equipping place, right? And we can only become equipped by him in his presence, right? We can't make it through a wilderness. We can't make it through a season of challenge, a storm in life, whatever language a person wants to put to it. We can't make it through any of it without him. And what's funny, and this is something that's been highlighted to me lately, is I'll use a term. Someone said they're going through something, right? And it's like, when we're going through something, our human nature causes us to fixate on the thing. Right. Right. But where God's at is in the going through.

SPEAKER_01: 31:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 32:00

Like he's taking us through those things. And so I would, yeah, I just appreciate the language you put to that, the way that you go about that. It's just incredible. And I love that it's a total, absolute surrender in that season. Yeah. right and so that's the advice for anyone listening under the sound of my voice at the sound of our voices is that you would find the courage to be weak before god to know that apart from him that you're nothing and to surrender all don't withhold anything you know he's a big god um i know in my experience he's big enough to handle my cursing and yelling and screaming Just as much as he's big enough to receive all of my praise and my worship. So I would advise anyone listening to find yourself within that and to look for your posture of surrender. I often tell people there's no half-stepping in the kingdom of heaven. You're either in or you're out. So find your posture to surrender all. Now, Kathy, you've got an incredible book out there. It's called Revelationship. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_02: 33:23

Yeah, we've been talking all around it, basically God revealing himself for the purpose of relationship. It's the whole reason he reveals himself. He doesn't just reveal himself because he wants to, you know, show the wizard behind the curtains or something like that. He does it because he wants a relationship with us, an intimate relationship with us. And the humility that we're talking about is putting us in the place to receive that. So I come to him with a love. lack, and then I put it before Him, and then He always is the antidote to that lack. His nature, His character, His attributes are the antidote to that lack. Unfortunately, as Christians, we've been trained to really only look for God within the church four walls, maybe, and in the Bible. And even that, we're kind of in training for our whole lives, right? So, there's not room for people who don't experience god inside the four walls of a church and quite frankly the scriptures weren't meant to be read just inside of a synagogue they were meant to be read outside and so going outside in nature to experience god is vital and it's a sacred pathway to experiencing the revelation of god we're talking about suffering suffering is definitely one of the ways that god reveals himself now when we suffer because we haven't been trained, okay? We lean away from God. And we're like, oh, how dare you? I'm bitter. I'm upset. I don't like the fact that I'm here. Grumble mumble. Okay. Just like the Israelites did. Okay. There's a natural human response, but the supernatural response is to lean into God. And then when we lean into God, he reveals himself more. Wrestling with God is a wonderful sacred pathway, AKA Jacob, right? So he wrestles with God. And we often have to wrestle something to the ground, uh, a deep question or something we have to relinquish to him. You're talking about surrender. It sometimes takes a bit of wrestling, and it should. Like, that is wonderful that he would wrestle with us. I mean, most gods, little g gods, are at the top of some hill, and you've got to do all this stuff to ascend to him. He comes down sometimes. to dwell with us and to shape us and change us and just by being close to him we're changed by him and so wrestling with him is legit okay and there's other ways that god reveals us we had to stop i mean because we just kept going like there's there's several there's like 15 chapters so god revealing himself in about 15 different ways but he also reveals himself in art and in music and you name it so there are many ways that god reveals himself we just have not been trained to see them so the book is meant for people who need to experience expand a bit of how they see God moving in their life and in their story so that once their eyes are trained, it's almost like glasses that you put on, they begin to see Him moving in their story and they recognize God is really here. He is present. He is moving. He is shaping. He is changing. And because we're not trained to see it and we only see the people on some platform as called, you know, those are the people who are called, then it's a travesty that we don't realize that we are called. We're called to do what I said in the prayer. We're called to reverse the curse. That's what we're supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_00: 37:16

Well, that's powerful. That is powerful. I mean, you think about the reality of that in today's church, right? where it's the person at the pulpit, right? It's the person that's at the front of the room, not the person in the back. It's not the person in the middle of the queue, right? It's always someone that's in the spotlight. And it's almost like in answering our calling, right? We're able to shed whatever notion that those who came before us may have created by tradition or religiosity or legalism, right? We're able to shed those things because at the end of the day, God doesn't play favorites. Each one of us individually and collectively is his favorite, right? It's not because, you know, we're all called, it's like we're all called to different things, right? It's the body of Christ. The church is the body and it's many parts, right? many functions, right? Like I can't take my left arm and use it as my right leg, right? So I think that's very good. You dispel something that's kind of prevalent, right? Where people might say, there might be someone out there who's saying, well, I can't speak like that. I don't have that kind of language. Or I've heard people oftentimes say, oh, I don't want to pray because I don't know that much scripture and my words, they get all mumbled up or whatever the case may be, right? We tend to listen to the lies of the enemy and stifle ourselves with this idea or this misconception that we can't be just as called as the next person because we're too busy, I guess, looking to the right and to the left instead of focusing and fixing our gaze on him.

SPEAKER_02: 39:09

That's

SPEAKER_00: 39:09

right. That's beautiful, Kathy. If our listeners would like to pick up a copy of that book, where can they find it?

SPEAKER_02: 39:16

The best place to get it is either at revelationship.net, so it's revelationship, just like it sounds,.net. The book is there. There's a free devotional that they can download if they get the book. But there's also a not-free devotional. It's 250-plus pages, beautiful photography, immersive QR codes with worship songs, the whole thing. It's meant to be an immersive experience. I have other resources there, including a blog I've been writing for the past, I think, 10 years or something like that. And a lot of people, they will send me questions, hard questions, and even share with me their prayer needs. And they can do so. They can connect with me at revelationship.net. They can also get it on Amazon, but it's hard to find because Amazon thinks revelationship isn't a word. So that's always fun. You have to type in revelationship and Kathy Garland, and then you'll find it.

SPEAKER_00: 40:14

Got it. That's awesome. You heard that folks, revelationship.net, where you can connect, get all the resources you need, want, and possibly would want in surrender and finding that relationship, that intimate relationship in the way that Kathy found it. She's laid out a path for every one of you to make it a little bit easier. So maybe you don't have to pray for that tree to fall on your car. Kathy, I want to end with one last thing. If there's a bit of advice that you could give our listeners, that might make surrender easier for them. I know we all struggle with, I mean, identity is a hot topic in the world today. So we struggle with that. We struggle with receiving who we are, our identities in Christ, knowing who he is, because we get to a flip of a coin, decide whether we're one or the other these days, which that's a whole different conversation. But if you could give a bit of advice to our listeners today, on maybe a step, a practical step, or something that might make it easier, a perspective even, to make it easier for them to surrender and begin that walk, what would you give them?

SPEAKER_02: 41:25

Well, I think I would definitely say I'm happy to share. I'll give you the notes, the link to some notes on it. But I have a devotional. It's called Known. It's coming out soon, but there's a free link. I'll give you that. I would share that with them because being known... This is what we're talking about. The intimacy is knowing and being known. And the free resource I can give you goes through 32 names of God, such as El Roy, which you heard me use earlier, or Abba, which is father, which you referred to, or Hashepet, the Lord, our just judge. You know, these are things that are. important for us to know about God because they define who we are. And I'm happy to share that with people. That would be maybe one advice as a resource that I could share with people. The advice also, other than looking for the mountain of God, is I would say that you are not disqualified. That's almost like a word of knowledge for your listeners. There are people who are listening to your show, to our conversation, and they have made some not-so-wise decisions. And I've been there. I've done that too. I have a couple of t-shirts for that. But the point is that what you've done does not disqualify you from being called.

UNKNOWN: 42:50

Right?

SPEAKER_02: 42:50

There are sins that are particularly heinous that pastors lately have been committing, and they're falling from grace, and they shouldn't be pastors again. They're still called, and when they repent and they surrender and they return to Christ, they will have a place in the body of Christ. You were just talking about that. Every one of us has a calling, and it's not just a calling on the stage or a calling within the church. It's multiple callings. Fuchsia Pickett taught that we're called to fellowship. We're called to be brothers and sisters in Christ. And there's something like, I don't know, she said something like 60 different callings in the Bible. We're all called. And what we've done does not disqualify us from that calling. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance is what the old King James Version says, which means it can't be taken back. There's no take backs. So he gives us those callings. He calls us. He knits us together. in a mother's womb, and these gifts and callings are knitted together with who we are. And if you've made some bad decisions, it's very easy to return to Christ. Simply say, I'm sorry I made those decisions, and then turn back and do the things that you did at the beginning. That's what Christ gives us. He says, return to your first love. Do those things that you did in the beginning. Read the Bible as a love letter to you, and to understand the a God who's revealed in those words. Pray, sit in silence. If you don't know what to say, Sit in silence. There's a whole lot of presence of God in silence, more than even just rattling off the soap method or the prayer to-do list. He's there. He promises He's already there. You just haven't sensed Him in a while. That's okay. He'll return. The sense of His presence will return. He's always been there. He's never left. He promises never to leave. So that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_00: 44:50

Amen. Well, his promises are yes and amen, and he is faithful to complete. Kathy, I want to thank you. You've shared a lot of wisdom, a lot of knowledge. I want to thank you for being unfiltered and unhindered. Honestly, those are the two words that come to mind immediately, because you're not going to be restrained from letting people know exactly what it is. You know this to be true because you've experienced these things. So it's not like anybody can come and say, ah, that didn't happen. You know it to be true. You lived it, right? So I want to thank you for that. As we close, I want to do you an honor now. Since you set the table for us in prayer, I would love to pray with you. And then we will close. Heavenly Father, God, you are so good to us. You long to be known and made known. You long for us to know that you're there, that you're with us, that you won't forsake us. God, what a privilege and a pleasure it is to serve you, to know you, to have a relationship with you, Father, that you would cause us to see you in the ways that we need to see you, that would get us to where you want us to go. We thank you for that, Father. Right now, I thank you for Kathy. I thank you for her life. God, I thank you that instead of a tree falling on her car, you spoke and asked her to surrender. And as a result of that, God, you've given her such a gift and a word of knowledge, God, and experience that she's able to share right now with myself and with those who are listening. Father, I ask right now for those who are listening, God, the listener, would you show them who you are today? Would you help them fix their eyes on, as Kathy called it, the mountaintop of God, where they would find you? God, would you help them to realize the grace that you so freely give, that you are a God who comes down to our level in compassion, not out of pity. God, that we don't have to strive in the kingdom. We just have to relax, surrender, and receive. Father, so I ask you today that you would do that, that you would bless our listener, that you would bless Kathy in all that she does, bless her family. God, bless everyone and everything that comes from book as a result of the work that you've done in her life and your imminent and prevalent hand, that intimacy that you have with her, Lord. Bless each and every person under the sound of my voice right now, God. I ask that you would help them, that this conversation would draw them just one step closer to you, and that the end result would be the fulfillment of your prayer, Jesus, that we would all be one, knitted together in love, one, just as you and the Father are one. We praise you today. We give you all glory in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_01: 47:45

Amen.

SPEAKER_00: 47:46

Well, that has been another episode of The Low Life Show. Stay tuned. We've got another guest coming on the next episode. So until then, stay low, stay blessed, and stay ready for the next episode of The Low Life Show. Peace.

SPEAKER_01: 48:06

Thank you.