What To Expect When You Are Expecting... A Liquor License!

Paperwork doesn’t sell your first drink, but it absolutely decides when you can. We take you behind the scenes of Michigan’s liquor licensing process with Sherry Ashton, a supervisor who’s guided thousands of files from first submission to final issuance. Together we unpack the checkpoints that matter most—what “complete application” truly means, why fingerprinting now triggers later by staff request, and how one missing lease clause can stall an entire timeline.

From there, we map the enforcement investigation: the records investigators request, what they look for on site, and how your communication sets the tempo. We get candid about violations—often sitting with the seller—that can freeze a buyer’s file until fines or escrow terms resolve. Then we shift to administration review and show how analysts move files to consent agendas or build detailed syllabi for commissioner decisions. We highlight the small details that protect your timeline: reading commission orders line by line, responding to deficiency notices, understanding added fees when permits change, and notifying staff immediately when financing shifts.

Finally, we demystify denials and appeals. Most denials that reach appeal are remanded for more information or reversed when applicants show clear funding, a practical operating plan, and strong compliance steps. Hearings happen over WebEx, making it easy to present your case. If your goal is a smooth opening, this guide offers the steps to get there: complete documentation, honest disclosures, tight coordination with investigators, and disciplined follow‑through on orders and fees. If this helped you plan your path to a Michigan liquor license, subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

The MLCC On The Road podcast is brought to you by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission (MLCC).  For more information on the MLCC, please visit our website at www.michigan.gov/lcc.  To submit a question or idea for a podcast topic, please email mlccinfo2@michigan.gov.

The mission of the Michigan Liquor Control Commission is to make alcoholic beverages available for consumption while protecting the consumer and the general public through regulation of those involved in the sale and distribution of these alcohol beverage products.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

David Marvin 0:00

You're listening to the MLCC On the Road Podcast, brought to you by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission with hosts Sarah Weber and David Marvin. Welcome back to the MLCC on the Road Podcast. I'm David Marvin, and with me is Sarah Weber. And Sarah, today we have an episode that we are calling What to Expect When You're Expecting. And in this case, what you're expecting is a liquor license. And so uh joining us, Sarah, uh, we have a special guest, and I would like you to introduce our special guest today.

Sara Weber 0:32

Yes, today we have uh Sherry Ashton, who is a supervisor in our licensing division. And I want to take a few minutes to talk about how great Sherry is, and the staff that she oversees is fantastic as well. But why don't you give us a little bit of background on where you were brought up in licensing, Sherry?

Sherry Ashton 0:52

Okay. Um I started um here at MLCC in 2013. I have to really do a real quick, funny story. I missed my first interview. I wrote down the wrong date. Go figure. Um, on my way here, I got pulled over by the state police. He wanted to know why I was in such a hurry. And I told him that I missed my interview on Friday and that they gave me a second chance to show up on Monday. So I left early and I wanted to be sure I wasn't late, and I was driving 70 and a 55 and he let me go. That's how it all started. That's how I got here.

David Marvin 1:25

That is a fantastic story.

Sara Weber 1:27

Was I on your interview panel?

Sherry Ashton 1:29

You were. Did I hear this story? Or did you afterwards I think I did, but oh my gosh. So yeah. So that's that's how I got here. I try not to be late for anything more. It's it's been a wild ride. I started out in unit one. I started doing the first request, which is where we intake all of the applications. I then moved on to working on stock transfers, which you, Sarah, took me off of. And I remember I went home that night and I cried because I thought I was doing such a good job. Again, I remember none of this. I thought I was doing such a good job, and I couldn't imagine why you wanted me off of that. And now I know why. Because with you not taking me off of doing stock transfers and wanting me to do better and improving, moving up and doing other areas, I wouldn't be where I am supervising. So after that, I went over and I started doing consent, which was, I think at the time I was doing outdoor service areas. I then took on conditionals. I think, David, I trained you shortly after that.

David Marvin 2:30

I came on in uh 2014. Yes. And you trained me on the stock transfer. So what I know about stock transfers, uh all thanks to Sherry.

Why The License Process Matters

Sherry Ashton 2:37

Yep. And then I went over to at the time it was the dreaded Unit Four unit, um, which actually was my favorite unit. Um, it's unit four is the area where we do all of the final documents. We receive all the documents and we make sure everything's in the file before we send the file up to renewal so that we can issue the license. Um, that was probably the funnel. I don't know why it was the funnest. Um, I just really enjoyed that area. Then the supervisor position came available and I applied. Um, I kind of feel like I was well well rounded in order to come over to do that. And sometimes you think you know a lot until you actually get into a position and it's just um always a learning experience, which I've thoroughly enjoyed.

Unit 1 Review And Complete Applications

Sara Weber 3:25

I think liquor control as a whole is always a learning experience. It doesn't matter how long you've been here or even a short period of time. There's always something new every day. There's always something that you thought you knew or you thought you had experience with, but there's always just a little twist to it, and it makes it that much more confusing on some days, more so than others. And between the three of us, I think we've seen a lot, but we also continue to see a lot. Um, and that's why I wanted to bring Sherry in today because we want to talk about what getting a license looks like. We've done prior episodes or previous episodes on how to complete an application and the kind of the pitfalls that you see there, but we want to talk about the application process and what that looks like from the standpoint of an employee here and maybe some of the common pitfalls that we run into with that and things that we want you as our listeners to know as you're navigating this process as well, because it is a big deal and we recognize that it is a huge deal to you. And that's why we're calling it what to expect when you're expecting, because we know that at the end of the day, this liquor license is something that you feel is very critical to your business, and we want to do that justice and honor that for you. So why don't we get started with a little bit of some of the things that you see in what we call licensing unit one? That's after a file has been submitted to our office, it's been created in the system, all of the paperwork's been scanned in by our staff, and it goes over to a unit one staff member so they can start looking at the pieces and parts of the application. Sherry, what are some of the things that your staff are going to look at in there? And what are some of the common stopping points for people that prevent the application from being able to move forward from that spot?

Sherry Ashton 5:14

For a first request, we have to have a completed application. A completed application means we have to have all the documents that is included in the checklist on the front page of the application. So we have to have all of the information on each person that is going to be part of the application, the members, the stockholders, purchase agreements, property documents. Once we receive all of those documents, they are deemed acceptable by staff, then that is when it is a completed application and it will move on to the next process. Whether that be if it's a conditional application, it will move on to our administration division. If it's a completed application, then it will move on to our enforcement division.

Fingerprinting Changes And Privacy

David Marvin 5:53

One thing that I know has changed here recently in the last six to eight months is the process for fingerprinting. Prior to the last short period of time, people would submit their fingerprint documentation showing that they had gotten fingerprints. Now that's changed, where they will submit an application and fingerprints are determined later on. Kind of walk us through what is required for that and how we determine who needs fingerprints.

Sherry Ashton 6:19

As David stated, it used to be that the fingerprints were required up front or they could be submitted up front. That has changed now, and staff now will review that as part of the application process review. Staff will now determine who needs to submit those fingerprints. That will go out with a notice of deficiency along with any other documentations that may be required once it is determined who needs to submit their fingerprints.

David Marvin 6:44

And I think the reason, if I recall correctly, it was after we worked with the state police and uh FBI based on their audit procedures, is that with our form that we used to have for fingerprints out on the website, it ultimately, if you Googled fingerprint search or something like that for Michigan, that form popped up and we had teachers and firefighters and police officers and people that were never going to apply for a liquor license that were using our forms to go get fingerprinted. And we were getting responses from MSP and uh FBI on people that we had no right to. And that's this process was revised so that only those who need the fingerprint form get the fingerprint form so that we don't have that situation where we've got people that really should not be giving us their fingerprint information that we don't have right to. And that's it's probably a good thing for privacy purposes, and and then we don't have any uh concerns about having people's uh background information that we shouldn't.

Sara Weber 7:39

And it just it's a little in unfortunate as well because it does create a stoppage in the workflow for both our office and for our applicants, because that is something that we are going to have to ask for and wait for them to submit as a part of the application before it can go out for investigation. So that is something to bear in mind that you're gonna have a little bit of time lapse there before we get that information back and can determine that we are okay to proceed with the rest of the application process.

David Marvin 8:10

But I think from the standpoint of people's uh privacy and and concerns about identity information being out there, that's a good thing. Um, and and also if you are already licensed with us and you're a current licensee and you've already been fingerprinted, you don't need to submit those uh fingerprints again. So that's that's another thing. It for folks that are brand new, there that is, like you said, Sarah, a little bit of an extra uh delay.

Sara Weber 8:34

Or if you were previously licensed but you are not anymore, you are required to resubmit fingerprints. So this requirement of not having to submit only applies if you are an active licensee with the commission or have a license on file with us already. If that license has terminated or lapsed for any reason, you will have to resubmit fingerprints if we ask them.

Conditional Licenses Explained

David Marvin 8:56

So, Sherry, before we move on to talking more about what happens after one has a completed application, let's unpack a little bit about the conditional license process. Conditional licenses are something that are near and dear to my heart because when I first started here at MLCC, that's what I was working on as an analyst. And so uh over the last uh 12 years, they've been a part of the uh licensing process. And I know there are some, there can be some confusion and some misunderstanding as to what a conditional is actually there for. So can you uh give us a little background as to what conditionals are and the process for them?

Sherry Ashton 9:30

A conditional application is an application that you are able to operate sooner, but it doesn't mean that it goes necessarily any faster. You have to have a completed application. And when we say you have to have a completed application to move the file forward, yes, you still have to have a completed application to always move your file forward. However, with the conditional application, we have a little bit stricter guidelines that we have to follow because what we are when we have a file that goes out for investigation, we have our enforcement division that can investigate to look at books and records and investigate the people. When we are issuing a conditional license, we only have what we have on paper. So we're only able to determine what they put on paper for us to be able to license them. So we have to have a completed application. So our staff does have to take a little bit more time to determine that everything is complete in that file. If there's one little thing missed in the application, it's going to have to go back to make sure that it is completed. If there's something missed in a lease, we're going to have to have the information. We cannot ask our investigators to pick up the information when they're out in the field. We have to have the information up front before it can go to the analyst to be reviewed.

Sara Weber 10:47

And I think it's a common misnomer, too, that if you apply for a conditional license along with a permanent license application, that your application will be processed faster simply because with the statutory language contained in a conditional license application, the commission has certain guidelines that we have to meet. That does not start until you have a completed application. So as Sherry alluded to, there is a lot more information that we have to look at and verify. And I just want to remind everybody that if you are applying for a conditional license, we are going under the assumption that you are ready to operate. You're ready to be open and serving the public. If you're looking at this as just a placeholder, I'm going to discourage you from doing that completely. It does not do you any favors because it does create some issues when enforcement goes out to look at your premises and discover that you were issued one, but you're not operating. So it can create additional headaches for you as the licensee. You could look at potential violations. There's all sorts of muddy waters that you could be trying to wade through if you do not do this the right way.

David Marvin 11:54

Yeah, and Sarah, you mentioned the violations, and that's now kind of in my turf over here dealing with things in executive services. And two violations that we see very commonly with conditional licensees are either they didn't place their license into escrow when they were not actively operating for more than 30 days because they were never actively operating. And then the other one that is actually probably the most common, and we get questions on it all the time, is when a conditional license is issued for an on-premises licensee, they fall under the same 180-day requirement to submit server training documentation. And what happens is you get a conditional license that's issued in that scenario, but they may not be open. And the 180 days goes by and they haven't submitted documentation. We don't know they're not open. We are assuming they are open because they were issued that conditional license, and therefore that server training was required. And so we get that a lot of times. People coming in and say, hold it, but I'm not open. I don't have staff to have server train. But the conditional license being issued, there is the assumption that you are open, and so that you do have to comply with that. So that is definitely something that I can see on that back and when you mention uh violations and other problems. That is a real world scenario that we have happen. Probably at least once a week, I have that conversation with somebody and they don't understand why they're getting a violation. It's because you said you were open and you didn't follow what was in the order.

Sherry Ashton 13:25

You mentioned something too that just popped into my mind. Um, as part of the application on the conditional portion, as the seller, there is an area that you are also responsible to fill out. But do know that you also are going to tell us if we are going to administratively put your license into escrow or if your license is going to be submitted when you are ready to have that conditional be issued. Um, that is something that is not always checkmarked. That is kind of on you as the seller to know when you're ready to give up that license.

Common Conditional Pitfalls

David Marvin 13:59

And Sherry and Sarah, another thing that we haven't talked about yet, but also it affects us over here in Executive Services because we handle all the appeals. If you're applying for a conditional license where it transfers the location of a Class C license or an on-premises license along those lines, there is a requirement that we have to see that there isn't a church or a school within 500 feet. Now, as Sherry mentioned, when we send stuff out for investigation, we have our investigators check that out. We have to trust completely on the documents that you send in. So there is an affidavit that you have to sign in that situation that says this location is not within 500 feet of a church or a school. And there's a diagram on the back to kind of show you how you have to measure it based off of the way the law reads. But we have seen situations, and I remember very clearly somebody signing that document, and we always check. We do a quick Google search. And if there's nothing that looks within uh 500 feet, we we generally are okay with that. But if there is, we we do send out an investigator to check that. But I remember somebody clearly checking saying no, signing off saying there was no church or school within 500 feet. And there was literally right next door in a strip mall, a they they shared an interior wall with a church. And then there were two other churches within 50 feet of them on the opposite side of the road. So it is important that you you fill out that document accurately and truthfully. If you have questions, let us know. But also, you can't appeal a denial. We have to deny that conditional license if we have determined that there is a church within uh 500 feet or a school within 500 feet. But that's only the conditional license. They still could get the the permanent permanent, yeah.

Investigation: What Inspectors Ask For

Sara Weber 15:51

It does not do you any good, though, to mislead the commission by checking no if you have or know for a fact that there is a church or school. You are responsible and it is up to you to do your due diligence because if you do it in error or you try to mislead the commission, the conditional will have to be denied no matter what. Or the when the investigator goes out to do to conduct the permanent license application and discovers this, they are going to include in their findings that it appears that you misled the commission. And then you're ultimately going to not only be denied because there is a church or school within the vicinity, but that you failed to properly notify the commission or provided false and fraudulent statements to the commission. And those are a lot harder to come in to an appeal and try to justify to the commission on why you intentionally or appeared to intentionally mislead the commission to try to get them to issue a license. So it is something that you need to take very seriously as a part of the application process. Yes, you may not be able to get a conditional license, you know, because of this, but you don't want to have or put your permanent license application at risk for something that is required by law. Okay, now that I have given my stern mom warning uh for conditionals, I think we need to move on a little bit to the investigation process. So once we have the completed application determined by staff, the next step in the application process is that your application is referred out to an enforcement district for assignment and review and investigation by a commission investigator. And what usually happens here, they release a check sheet to you as the applicant that gives you a pretty comprehensive list of things that they would expect to want to see and review when they conduct an in-person interview with you at the proposed establishment. And things like that may include forms of identification. There might be tax statements, bank statements, property records, loan documents, business plans, safety records, you name it, depending on the type of business that you are proposing to operate. They're gonna want to see all that and they're gonna want to go out and they're gonna wanna visit the establishment too. So it's really incumbent upon you to make sure that you are communicating well with your investigator, meeting with them when that meeting is scheduled, and making sure that you are providing all that documentation so they can complete their investigation because they have to look at how the business is structured, if it's a corporation, who the stockholders are, what your investment was in that property, the condition of the property itself, how you're proposing to operate, if there's permits or permissions that may have not been checked on the application that they think you may need based on what your business plan is. So they take all that information and they compile that into a report. And once that report has been written up, it goes back to a supervisor at that regional office. The supervisor will review what the enforcement investigator put together. And if they are satisfied and they don't have any additional questions or concerns with what has been prepared, that file gets returned back to Lansing. And at that point, a licensing staff person will begin the process of reviewing that investigation report. Sherry, you have a staff person in your area that is responsible for review of that investigation report.

Sherry Ashton 19:27

Do you have anything you want to add there? So, Sarah, yes, when we have a file that does come back from enforcement, it will go to one of my licensing staff. She will review it to make sure that everything that we needed or everything that the investigator stated is in the file is there. Sometimes it does have to stop. It may stop because additional things have been added that licensing staff has to obtain, um, or there may be a violation that was incurred at time of investigation, and then that will come over to David Staff.

David Marvin 20:01

And not all violations cause every application to stop, but in many cases they do. And so what will happen there is oftentimes it is the seller in a transaction that has the violation because the licensee that or the applicant that is applying doesn't have a license yet unless they have a conditional. And so that application will be stopped pending the completion of the violation. Now that may just end up being a fine being paid, but if there was something that will cause the violation to stay open until something is completed. So oftentimes when there is a transfer without approval, the violation says you have to pay the fine, but also the license needs to stay in escrow or can't be the violation can't be closed until that transfer is completed. So ultimately, there will be situations where a violation could hold up your application. I will tell you that we try on the executive services side to make sure all the violations that have pending applications associated with them, we try to make sure we know of those so that when we do get something done on those violations, whether it's an acknowledgement or it comes after a hearing or somebody has a negotiated settlement, we too do try to expedite those so that it's not holding up a violation on the other end. However, if someone does want to actually have a hearing, what could happen is it could be, depending on how old the violation is, a couple months before we get a hearing scheduled, which means your application is going to be stalled at that point in time.

Sherry Ashton 21:33

And on those notes, we do have to remember that not everything falls on us here in licensing because we do have to wait for you to return information to us. Um, I know a lot of times we have people that call and complain say that their application is taking too long. Well, part of that time frame is waiting for you to get the information back to us. Once we get it back, we do typically within two. Days try to business days, try to get back into that mail so that we can keep that application moving forward.

Handling Violations And Delays

Sara Weber 22:08

And I think you raise a good point there. And you know, we're not finger pointing at you as the applicant saying you're not, you're taking too long because we understand that you're busy, you're trying to get a business up and running, we're busy because we've got hundreds of applications going at any moment on a given day, and we have over what, 20,000 licensees that they all want from us, something from us too on different points throughout the year. So this is a partnership between us that we are trying to maintain, and we're gonna do our best to try to get you moving as quickly as possible, but understand that we do have a lot of people that are depending on us on a daily basis. So as long as you're expedient in getting your information back to us, we'll do our best to do the same. And I think we can talk about administration a little bit. Sherry alluded to the review of an application being brought in from enforcement and our staff reviewing it. And once that is determined as being complete again, um, that file would then move over to licensing administration. And in administration, we have what we call department analysts, and those people are responsible for doing a comprehensive review of the application itself and preparing the file to be considered by the commission. There are times, as Sherry has mentioned, that we may have to stop that process and ask you for more information. And it could be related to things regarding your finances, or if something came back up in your background history that we need to make sure that we can clarify to the commission so it gives you a better chance of being considered, or if you have a very different business operation, we may ask you for a little bit more information on what you're trying to do or what you're trying to accomplish and how you're gonna do that safely. So those are questions that the analyst will bring up and may reach out to you on, or we may have to return files back to enforcement for supplemental information. However, once that information is completed, the analyst will then either place your application on what we call a consent agenda, which means that it is going to be considered for approval by the commission, or they will prepare a very comprehensive syllabus that contains all of the concerns that the commission needs to consider before they can approve or deny your application. And those are, if you've ever listened to one of our Tuesday or Thursday commission meetings, those are the files that the analysts are discussing with the commission. And then the commission has to make a determination as to whether or not they want to approve or deny that application. Once that decision has been rendered, the file is released by a staff person and that is posted in our system so you can check the status of the application and then it's returned back to licensing where Sherry's staff will again review these files and start releasing orders. So, Sherry, let's talk about what that process looks like a little bit.

Administration Review And Agendas

Orders, Fees, And Reading The Fine Print

Sherry Ashton 24:56

So once the files are released to what we call Unit 4, they will start releasing the files, usually as soon as they're to us, which typically are on Tuesday, Thursdays. Um, they try to have them out as quickly as possible because, as we know, everybody is anxious to get their license. We don't want to be the people that are holding that back. We want to get them to you so that you can read your commission order, which is kind of our big thing, because anything that you're going to need to provide to us to get your license is going to be on the cover letter of your commission order. It is also going to be listed in your commission order. We just ask that you please do due diligence to yourself and read the commission order because what you're going to need to know is going to be listed in there. If you have questions, please by all means either call or just reply to the email that comes to you. Staff would be more than willing to help you with what is being requested in there because it's best for you to get what you need and it's best for staff to be able to get the information correct the first time so we can get that license to you quicker. But once the information comes out to you, it's just kind of a checklist of the things that you're going to have to provide back to staff so that we can review the documents. If everything is completed, then the file will go on to our renewal division to have the license issued. If for some reason the documents that you submit have things missing, are not acceptable, or we need additional documentation, it will be sent back to you in a notice of deficiency. And they usually are pretty detailed telling you what was missing, what's not correct. A common thing that we also have too is there might be additional fees asked for in a commission order. People always want to know why are there additional fees? Well, sometimes at investigation, you requested to have a permit added. So at that time, because the application was completed when Unit 1 first reviewed it, it was complete at that time. Fees were all there. So with the file moved on. But at investigation, you added a permit that required fees that was then added as part of the commission order for us to obtain those fees. That is Unit Four's responsibility to make sure that those fees are then received. Another time that there might be fees received, and this is specific for our SDD, our specially designated distributor licenses specifically in this time of year. Our license fees on a transfer are based upon the prior year sales. So if you have a license that you are transferring between the first of the year and until we have the prior year sales, which is usually sometime in February, we have to estimate what those fees are going to be. So we use the prior year sales. So I'm just going to use an example. Right now we are in 2026. So our prior year sales would have been 2025. In January, we don't have the prior year sales. So we would still use 2024-year sales. Once those fees come out, we then have to go back and determine what the correct fees would have been for that time frame. So sometimes people have additional fees due because the sales were higher for 2025 than what they were for 2024. However, some people have less sales. Their light, their sales or their license may have been an escrow. They didn't have any sales. They may get a refund. This time of year, people get a special letter that states that their additional fees due because they're for the SDD and for the Sunday sales PM. We do have that that comes up. It's usually the end of February, beginning of March that those go out. So we do have a lot of those questions come out. But again, if you're questioning why something is being sent for fees, we just ask that you call because not sending the fees is just going to get you a notice of deficiency and you're not going to get your license any sooner. So if you're questioning why you have a fee, if you really are unsure of why you're being asked to submit something, whether it's the fees, any type of a documentation, you think that you've submitted something, literally you can just reply back to an email and just ask why specifically something is being requested. Staff is going to be good at getting back to you on those because, again, we don't want to hold your files. We want those files to move forward. We want to get you your license.

Sara Weber 29:22

I want to circle back to because you you made a great point. And I think you tried to make your point very clear, but I want to also reiterate on it because we are talking about what to expect when you're expecting. So here's mom coming back out again. Read your orders. In the commission order, there might be things that you question in why those provisions were added. You do have the ability to appeal some of those provisions if you do not agree with them, but you have to do that within a specific time period. Otherwise, there's not a whole lot we can do for you. The commission can reconsider certain aspects of the order if there were certain conditions placed on you as an applicant, or maybe if your spouse was told that they could have no involvement, or there's different aspects, and I don't want to go too deep into the weeds with this, but that is one of the reasons why it's so important for you to read the commission orders, because there's a lot of information in there. The other thing that some people don't realize is these commission orders do have an expiration date on them. While we are not fanatics about closing out license applications or having the commission reconsider them after this two-year period expires on these applications, it is something that the commission is going to look at. And we completely understand that there may be circumstances where maybe after two years you're still not ready to open. You know, there's a lot of different nuances to opening a business that we can appreciate, but it is very helpful for us to know that you are still planning on opening. So be mindful at the expiration date. If there's things that you want the commission to reconsider, you need to submit that as soon as possible. And in reading the order, you're going to understand that there's certain responsibilities that you also have in becoming a licensee with the commission. That is important. And that is the reason why we harp on you to read these orders from cover to cover.

Sherry Ashton 31:14

Sarah's something I want to talk about too when you say to please read the commission orders, things change from the time that there's an investigation done until we receive documents from you or from your attorney. Sometimes there's a change in financing. If there's a change in financing, we need to have that information. Sometimes they have to have a supplemental done, then we have to send those files back out to investigation. If you know that there is a change in financing, send the information to us. Don't wait until when the order goes out. You can send us the information before you send your closing documents in. If you receive that commission order, something has changed, or you received your commission order and it's going to be a few months. And in that few months, that change has come up and it's going to be a few months longer before you're going to submit your documents to us. You don't have to wait until the very end to submit that change to us. The sooner we have it, the sooner we can get enforcement out there so that you aren't waiting on us. Because sometimes we do have to send those out. Sometimes it's things that we can make a determination here in the office that staff can just determine that they don't have to go out. But in the event that it does have to go back out, then we have to determine that it has to go over to enforcement. Enforcement has to give it back to their people, then they have to meet with you. So if you do see that there are things out there that are going to be changing, let us know. We're we're gonna get those out as soon as possible.

Escrow, Expirations, And Updates

Sara Weber 32:37

I think another important aspect, and again, this comes down to the time of year that we are recording this, but I think it's very important for those of you who are requesting your first extension beyond five years for your escrow. You have reading that order is very important because it gives you a time frame for which you have to submit your renewal fees for the year. And if you fail to do that or fail to provide them within that time frame, your license will lapse and it will not be reinstated. We have several cases of that occurring every year because people will receive their approval order and think they're all set. They didn't read the order and didn't realize that they had a time frame that they had to provide monies back to our office to complete the renewal process. So their license lapsed and they were not able to get it back, and now they're scrambling to find a new license somewhere or buy a license from somebody. So it's another example of why it's so important to do your due diligence and make sure that you're reading the stuff that we send you. We don't just like to send things out just because we put a lot of time and effort into providing you with a lot of information, and I know it can feel like a lot, but it's there for a reason. So I encourage you to use it and read it. Once again, I'm getting off my soapbox. Let's talk about the day, the big day. Your license has been approved. You've completed all your closing documents, the unit is pushing the file forward to our renewal division. So what happens then? Our renewal staff, as Sherry had mentioned, will review the application. They get everything set up in the system and they tie all of your licenses and permits to your business record, and then they send that off to you. Your license and permit documents are emailed to you. We don't send anything by mail anymore. Everything is usually done electronically. Yes, it will come to your email. And once you get that, you need to print that off and put it up on your wall. As Sherry's motioning to me right now, you need to sign that license too. So that is your baby. Make sure you have it displayed. Make sure you've signed it. You are now the proud owner of a liquor license. This is an important day for you, and we understand that. So get that thing up on the wall and be proud to show it off and be ready to go. But as you know, sometimes things don't always go your way. There, again, maybe a pitfall where the commission has chosen to instead deny your application. And you get a denial order in your email box one day, and you're reading through that, and you're like, what? What can I do? Well, there is an appeal process. So, David, let's talk about that a little bit and kind of give them the end is not the end.

Issuance Day And Denials

David Marvin 35:21

Most people who appeal do ultimately either get approved at the appeal or the application is remanded back for more information to get the information that's needed. Rarely do we have what we call uh where we affirm a denial where it's just that's where it stops. For instance, today is a day where we have appeal hearings later on today. And two of the four appeals that we have are for people that did not provide all the documents that were needed. They either did not show that they had adequate funding or they just didn't provide much of anything. They didn't show up for the interview, they didn't talk to the investigator, they didn't provide documents to show what their plan is. So those are ones that the commission typically would hear out the appeal, they would hear what the people had to say, and if they are convinced otherwise to essentially give them a second chance, they would remand that back so that investigate the investigation could be completed and licensing could look at that and and prepare it for another hearing. Sometimes it's because you've got previous violation history, and the commission has concerns about are you the right fit because you've had a couple sales to minors or you've bounced a number of payments for spirits purchases. So the commission may want to hear what you are going to do to reassure us that you're gonna be a good licensee moving forward, that we're not gonna have these problems moving forward. Sometimes it's you just don't qualify for the license you're applying for. That's like a more rare situation. But there are some people that have big plans and they may bite off a little more than they can chew and apply for a license that they don't understand the requirements and the provisions. But the commission will work with folks to try to get them on the right path. And that is one thing that people have to realize is that if you get the denial, please definitely read that order and definitely read the letter that comes with the denial explaining that you have 20 business days to submit an appeal. Even if you're a little bit late, we'll probably still accept your appeal and we'll get a hearing scheduled where you'll be able to come. We do it all digitally, it's all through uh WebEx, where you can see the commissioners, they can see you, they can ask questions, and you can provide other documents to explain why you are a good licensee. Or in the situation of with violations, most people come in and say, Hey, here's our plan moving forward. With people that haven't provided the documentation, they say, Hey, this is what happened. Maybe there was a delay in some financing or something, and we couldn't get the information to the investigator. And the commission will say, Okay, well, we'll we'll rescind that denial and remand it back so you have another chance to get that information. Ultimately, the appeal is your option and your opportunity to come in and explain why you should not have been denied. And that is really the the key for those appeals and being able to come in and express yourself and explain why you are a good licensee and why you should be issued a license. And like I said, the vast majority of people at the end of the day, after an appeal, do ultimately get approved. So if history proves anything, is that you have a pretty good chance if you come in and you're ready to go and you can prove that you're gonna be a good partner with us, making sure that when alcohol is served, it's served safely and we're protecting the the public and we know where your financing has come from because that's what the law requires.

Sara Weber 38:40

Well, I hope everybody learned something from today's episode. We're really glad to have had the opportunity to have Sherry join us today, and I look forward to having her on some future episodes. Well, David and Sarah, thanks for having me.

David Marvin 38:54

Thank you, Sherry, and thank you, Sarah, and we'll look forward to talking to you again soon on the MLCC on the road podcast. The MLCC on the road podcast is brought to you by the Michigan Liquor Control Commission. For more information on the Michigan Liquor Control Commission, please visit our website at www.misigan.gov slash lcc. Thank you for listening.