From Inspiration to Impact: A Physician’s Journey to Scalable Solutions with Dr. Manju Dawkins

In this episode on Startup Physicians, I had the privilege of speaking with Dr. Manju Dawkins, founder of Thimble Health, a company transforming how we manage the physical and emotional stress of needle procedures. Manju shares her journey as a physician entrepreneur, and we dig into the story behind her idea, how she took it from concept to product, and the challenges that come with building something from scratch.

What stood out most to me is her clarity around the problem she’s solving, not just clinical pain, but the emotional toll these procedures take on patients, especially children. We talk through how she validated the need, navigated the early hurdles of design and manufacturing, and how she’s thinking about the future of Thimble Health.

We also explore what it means to be a physician founder, the role of community, and why connection and shared experience matter so much on this journey. If you’ve ever had an idea that kept tugging at you, or wondered what it really takes to bring a solution to life, this conversation will resonate.

Episode Highlights:

[00:00] - The Journey Begins: From Motherhood to Innovation
[03:02] - Understanding Thimble Health: A Comprehensive Solution
[05:49] - From Idea to Product: The Development Process
[08:35] - Creating the Prepare Patch: Design and Safety
[11:24] - Navigating Challenges: Self-Funding and Market Research
[14:00] - Lessons Learned: Networking and Asking for Help
[17:07] - Future Aspirations: Changing the Standard of Care

Transcript

Alison Curfman (00:00.93)
Hi everyone. Welcome back to Startup Physicians. This is your host, Dr. Alison Curfman, and I'm here today with Dr. Dawkins, a dermatologist and founder of Thimble Health. Hey Manju, thank you so much for joining me today.

Manju Dawkins (00:15.451)
Hello, I'm so happy to be here.

Alison Curfman (00:17.942)
So Manju has a very interesting story and we've interviewed a couple other physician founders on this show, but I would love for you to share with us kind of your journey and how you started Thimble Health, what gave you the idea, what gave you the real like actual impetus to go do it instead of think about it and then what that looked like along the way.

Manju Dawkins (00:40.495)
absolutely. So the impetus, I'll tell you, there was a lag between the impetus and the action, but where it started for me was when I had my first kid, I was a third year in dermatology and like motherhood was a little bit of a shock and disaster. And I thought, health is the only thing I got. So when I took her in for her first pediatrician visit, you know, they're about a month old, kind of a blob.

But when she got stuck, it was like, she just turned up at me with this very sharp look of like, how could you let that happen to me? And I felt like, oh boy, I failed. I failed as a mother, I failed as a physician, this was bad. Because you know, I didn't protect her and I had lost her trust in that moment. And honestly, the pediatrician had lost her trust in that moment, which sounds like very melodramatic, but I actually think there's a lot of truth to it when you kind of expand like how many times we all get these injections these days and like, what does it do to our psyche? Anywho.

So that was the beginning of it, but I was a dermatology resident. And so we prescribe Emla a lot. So Emla is a prescription numbing cream and it works miraculously. It's hard to use, right? It has all these issues. It's messy, it melts, can cause methamyglomaniac, which can be fatal in infants, but I knew how to use it. And so I ended up trying it out on my daughter and I was like, this is a total game changer. Why isn't everybody else doing it? Well, even we physicians, a lot of us don't even know about it. And

and it requires a prescription. So there are all these barriers to access. And so ultimately, many years later, it was like actually the end of 2016 when I was talking to a friend who's an anesthesiologist and we were both feeling kind of burnt out in our positions. And I was like, you know what? You need to invent something. And then I basically said the whole idea for Thimble. And so it began.

Alison Curfman (02:22.904)
So what, if you had to say it in a nutshell, what exactly is thimble and what do do?

Manju Dawkins (02:28.943)
It's basically a comprehensive platform of products to alleviate the pain and stress of needle procedures. And so we treat the pain before, during, after, we treat it really comprehensively, meaning we treat the physical pain and the emotional and psychological aspects of pain. So really trying to solve the problem of needle aversion.

Alison Curfman (02:48.342)
as a pediatric ER doctor, I definitely deal with that a lot. So I think that a lot of kids have pretty significant needle anxiety. It can cause a lot of issues with getting them the appropriate care that they need. But I've seen quite a few adults that really hate needles too. it sounds like it's beyond just pediatrics.

Manju Dawkins (03:10.755)
Exactly. Like those kids who grow up to be the people who just don't show up to the doctor, they're probably still showing up to the ER because that's, you have to at that point, right? But that's exactly the point is that it's a real reason that people don't get care, right? Like they don't get the vaccines, blood draws, medications they need, and then they end up basically in an acute situation and it isn't good.

Alison Curfman (03:32.206)
So you had this idea, you told someone in your network or your friend that you were kind of blah about your current career position and then had this other idea. Well, what happened? Did you just say, you know what? This is a great idea. I'm going to do it. Or what happened?

Manju Dawkins (03:48.862)
I did not jump immediately. asked like 50,000 people around me. was like, what do think about this idea? And the moment when I was like, wait a minute, I think this is really something is when I asked my parents, who will tell you the truth, you know, and also my husband. you know, he's like, that is potentially the first great idea you've ever had. And I was like, haha, funny. Yes, let's do this together. And so he's co-founder with me actually, but yeah, I mean.

that really was it. Like I really did talk to a lot of people because you know, like as physicians, we look for all the reasons to say no, you know what I mean? And so that was my behavior. so, so I really looked at like, wait, why isn't anyone does this is so obvious, right? And so literally that, and at the time I just thought I was like, you know, I don't know, just being in my head, but what it was, was actually customer, not customer research, but really research.

Alison Curfman (04:23.949)
Yeah.

Alison Curfman (04:44.098)
Market research.

Manju Dawkins (04:44.949)
Market research. Thank you. Exactly. Like what are all the solutions that are out there? Why have they not succeeded? Why have they succeeded? What has done well what hasn't and it was you know We're so lucky to live in the time of Google and all now AI. It's even easier to understand what else is out there and Then it kind of really became clear like actually a the reason why people have done this before is it's really really hard but really the biggest issue is that people didn't realize how enormous the problem was because the research

was really kind of like over here in a corner. you know, we, I don't know about you, but I never got taught anything about needle aversion or needle fear, or let alone ways to make it easier for patients. And, you know, I've talked to a lot of nurses and MAs and phlebotomists over the years and like, no, nobody's getting education about this. So, we just realized like, wow, this is actually a really big opportunity. But then it was like, okay, great. It's an opportunity. How do we actually do it?

Alison Curfman (05:40.45)
Yeah, because you didn't know how to go make a thing. I was joking with you about this before we got on, but it's like people talk about like, I invented a device or created a product. with my company, it was creating a clinical model. was literally like a really big spreadsheet, but you made a thing made out of something. So it's like, how did you go from like, I have an idea to I'm holding like a thing in my hand.

Manju Dawkins (05:44.093)
I

Manju Dawkins (06:06.137)
Yes, and yet I did not know how to make anything. just to, you know, some people, you know, they'll be like, yeah, I was always a tinkerer and I used to make, that's not me. I was never that person who was like, I'm gonna own a business one day. Like I had no aspirations. I just knew I wanted to be a doctor. So this was all really, really new, which I think is actually, you know, it can be a blessing, you know, that whole beginner's mindset thing I think is real. And so I could be really transparent and honest about it just say like, I don't know what I'm doing. Can you help me?

Alison Curfman (06:16.162)
haha

Manju Dawkins (06:35.663)
And so it was a lot of that and it was a lot of, you had to get out of my own way and ask people for help. And that feels very uncomfortable. I think again, as doctors, we're like, we're supposed to know the answers to everything, which I actually don't believe is true anymore either. But, yeah, so it was literally, let's see, I'm trying to think of the first step.

Alison Curfman (06:35.821)
Yeah.

Manju Dawkins (06:58.817)
drawing it out. That's the first step. so, and I'm not an artist either, or I was not, but, but we, that's the thing is what this whole process has made realize is like, actually have potential in all of these areas if we just like opened ourselves to it. So anyways, I literally drew a picture of what is now the Prepare Patch. And, it's crazy because the way it turned out is remarkably similar to that original drawing how many years ago. It's super cool.

Alison Curfman (07:21.244)
that's so cool. It's like I drew, have a picture of like this whole like wall of whiteboards that I filled in our very first weeks at the PE firm. And it was like this idea of like what this model could look like. And it's crazy how much of it has been preserved.

Manju Dawkins (07:27.751)
Yes.

Manju Dawkins (07:39.715)
Yes! And so it just shows you, wow, there's so much power in just writing things down. Like, I just thought was real.

Alison Curfman (07:43.852)
Yes. Get a blank piece of paper. I tell people all the time, get a blank piece of paper, start writing stuff down. Like, it wasn't the first time I had thought of this. I had written on a blank piece of paper about the concept, like, multiple times and thrown them all away, but, like, it's still, like, percolating up here, you know?

Manju Dawkins (07:52.284)
Yes.

Manju Dawkins (08:00.889)
Exactly. I'm curious what you think. Do you think that writing it out with your hand has a different power than typing it out on a Google?

Alison Curfman (08:07.158)
Yes, I keep, well, if anyone was, if I had it out, I would show you, but I keep these like really big, almost like Post-it notes in my office. And then I frequently will take everything off this desk and the whole desk is like these giant papers. And I will start, it's like a beautiful mind, like mapping all these things out. So everywhere I've ever worked, it's like an actual organization had a bunch of whiteboards on the walls. And I always was like writing all

Manju Dawkins (08:29.552)
Yes!

Alison Curfman (08:37.314)
I think that it's funny, it helps me process things. I never look at it again. I map it all out and then I stick it somewhere and then I find it a few months later. I'm like, wow, that's old, but it's now iterated or whatever. But I feel like it unlocks something in your brain to write it out.

Manju Dawkins (08:44.444)
Yeah.

Manju Dawkins (08:58.589)
Totally agree. Totally agree. It's a good And so what is the patch? So for the Prepare Patch, basically, it's a drug and adhesive patch that contains lidocaine. And the whole idea is like it's specifically designed and formulated for needle procedures. And so I will say, I'm gonna just stick one on my hand. And I didn't figure out how to do all this beautiful design. I had a product designer who's brilliant.

Alison Curfman (09:00.814)
So you drew this patch, and what is it?

Alison Curfman (09:25.901)
Yes!

Manju Dawkins (09:27.217)
you know, iterates and iterates and iterates and comes up with a thing. But basically what I knew what I wanted it to be was a patch that had basically we knew exactly how much lidocaine was going to be able to go through the skin. The R &D was all around like, how do we get lidocaine to go through the skin? Which sounds like, duh, that's easy, right? Actually, no, it's not easy. It's easy on the oral mucosa because it's like a sponge. That's part of the digestive tract. It absorbs, but the skin is like an umbrella trying to keep everything out.

Alison Curfman (09:49.838)
Yeah.

Manju Dawkins (09:55.302)
So we had to figure out how do we get drug to go in, this drug specifically, while maintaining safety. So, and that's another thing, like even when we started to do the research, we wrote out like, here's what we want. You know, this is for needle procedures. This is the time we want it to do. And it's really cool how close you get to that thing. anyways, and part of it was, you know, when I use Emla, I still use it in practice. And you know, when I was using it with my kids,

You know, part of the issue is you lose the intended site. you, know, why people wipe it off. You're like, okay, I'm ready. So one of the aspects is this like ring structure, which is like it outlines. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just, it's simple, but it's very, very helpful for the proceduralist and also for the patient. Cause then you didn't kind of waste a patch. And also another thing is like, you know, this is one of the advantages I think that we have as physicians or any, anyone who's in the clinic or in the, in the office, in the hospital.

Alison Curfman (10:27.054)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Alison Curfman (10:35.608)
Cool?

Manju Dawkins (10:53.073)
Like we see what actually happens. And I know what it's like. Like if someone just showed up to something and they were like, inject through this, I'd be like, no, I don't want to get sued. You know what I mean? So we can't really change everything for the doctor or the nurse. And so I didn't want anyone injecting through the patch. It's like nothing changes for the proceduralist. You still wipe with alcohol or chlorhexidine and do the procedure as you always did. yeah, drawing it with...

Alison Curfman (11:16.043)
Yeah.

Alison Curfman (11:21.262)
So while it may have taken someone additional on your team to knows how to find materials and put them together and make them beautiful. You still really needed to know the system of like, no, no one's going to inject through someone else's, you know, membrane. Even if you said it was sterile or something like you still knew what some of the systemic issues would be and how you had to design around that.

Manju Dawkins (11:28.091)
Yeah.

Manju Dawkins (11:45.284)
Exactly, exactly. we get like, think whoever's, if you're building something like use all of your own expertise to inform what you want and then ask for what you want. And those people who know how to do that thing, they come. That's exactly how it happened. Because I, was exactly what I thought. was like, okay, I know what we want, but how do we make this happen? And I'm not saying it was easy to find the people. Like when we had to find, you know, the right,

Alison Curfman (11:59.907)
Mm-hmm.

Manju Dawkins (12:14.405)
research organization to help us with the formulating. It's work, right? You just have to do the research on you. And I think it is going to be a lot easier with AI these days, but we just searched for who in the country or out of the country even could do this, made a spreadsheet, compared them, and honestly trusted a lot of our own gut. We just had conversations with everyone. And I did write down what was my instinct about this. And if I had a bad feeling, I just skipped it.

Alison Curfman (12:38.99)
Did you self fund the R &D phase? Okay.

Manju Dawkins (12:42.075)
Yes, self-funding, which I don't, I'm not a, yes, it was, it was big. it, was a lot. but I just, I just, yeah, you know, you, if you don't believe in yourself, then who's going to believe in you, I guess. I don't know. I mean,

Alison Curfman (12:46.862)
That's a leap of faith. That's a huge leap of faith.

Alison Curfman (13:01.014)
Yeah, my God, absolutely. How did you feel? Were you scared? Or just excited?

Manju Dawkins (13:07.165)
There was definitely, I had a lot of excitement and a lot of, when I look back at that time, I just knew it was gonna be, I was like, this is gonna be so easy. Like I remember feeling and saying that out loud to my parents, especially who were very, very scared and still are. I was like, this is so obvious. It's gonna be, this is gonna be easy. Once we get this made, it's gonna be easy, which, you know.

TBD, but I just thought it was so obvious that maybe that kind of helped the blind faith. You know what I mean? Kind of like, you know, I didn't know all of the hurdles that were gonna be there, but that's okay, because there are always gonna be hurdles, but like, if you let the hurdles just block you, then what's the point? We're not moving anywhere, are we? So.

Alison Curfman (13:41.646)
Mm-hmm.

Alison Curfman (13:52.374)
Right. Well, you started with a really good problem, too. I think that sometimes I see physicians that want to, OK, one of two things becomes a mistake. Either one, they think of something that would help their patient, and they're so passionately wanting to make that specific thing better. But the problem that they're trying to solve doesn't actually target one.

financial mechanism. like it's, one thing if like patients would really, really like something, but if it doesn't affect payers, like the overall cost of care, if it doesn't affect hospitals, and if it's not quite a big enough problem for patients to want to self pay for it, then it's kind of like, you have this like very nice idea of a thing, but like literally who will pay for it. And I've had, I've had, and I could think of like 10 options off the

Manju Dawkins (14:26.898)
Mm-hmm.

Manju Dawkins (14:45.469)
We will pay for it.

Alison Curfman (14:49.998)
top of my head for you right now. I'm like, heck, my ER would pay for it. And you could absolutely get larger hospital clients because anyone that does needle procedures and you can sell it direct to consumer. I think that that's the first thing is you have to start with a problem that someone will actually pay for. And then you have to start with the problem, not the solution, because you have to be

solving a real problem because I sometimes see people that are like, wouldn't it be cool if we had something that could do this? And maybe they even make that thing or design that software. And if it's not like really addressing a core problem, it's going to kind of fizzle out. So I think that you have to start with the right problem and one that like you can sell.

Manju Dawkins (15:43.108)
Yes, it's so interesting you say that because I've done all these accelerators to try to learn because I didn't know anything about business. So needed an education. And that was one of the first things they said was like, solve a problem, don't have a solution, then hack a problem or like find the problem. But I see what actually comes down the road. Sometimes it's a little bit different. So it's interesting that you say that because sometimes I do see kind of solutions and then they go find the problem.

to fit and I do kind of wonder what happens in the long road. But we shall see, we shall see.

Alison Curfman (16:20.462)
So you made this patch. So it sounds like you drew it on paper. You had a vision. You self-funded the R &D. You at some point got product designers involved. Did you have other lines of products? You said you were a sweet platform of products. So what's been your process for developing new things? Have you put them on the market? What's been your approach?

Manju Dawkins (16:37.755)
Yes.

Manju Dawkins (16:43.535)
Yeah. So, you know, when we were kind of ideating and dreaming really about like, okay, what would we want this to be? You know, and we dug into the research, like what would really solve the problem? Because, and it's true that yes, the pain of the stick is kind of the biggest either trigger for people's aversion or it's pain, nobody likes pain. So that is kind of the right place to start according to the research. But there are all these other aspects. We knew there was an emotional and psychological part that had to be.

Alison Curfman (17:11.464)
Anxiety.

Manju Dawkins (17:12.687)
Exactly. And they're commingled. And I even feel like sometimes in healthcare, we don't have a really good understanding of that emotional and psychological part and the importance of treating that aspect. So that was really important to me. And that's why I felt like, okay, we need to get that information out to people. It either needs to be on our website, in an app, in some way that this information has to be a part of it to really solve the problem completely. So I knew I wanted to build the app, but

didn't want to allot resources to that yet. So that was kind of on the back burner. Then I also thought we got to treat the pain afterwards, because all pain is the teacher that tells us to move away from that stimulus. And this is something that we still don't even talk about in the research very much, but like the pain after a flu shot, know, or a COVID vaccine or whatever it is, is going to, you know, trigger something in the brain to say, I'm not doing that again, you know, like that's why we hear people say like, I got sick from that, so I'm not doing.

Anyway, so I think it's important to treat that. But I have also, you know, more, you know, it's funny how life works because like, I think the longer you come along in medicine, you start to realize kind of like how much we don't know in medicine too. it really, know, pharmaceuticals are wonderful and surgery is wonderful, but there's all these other modalities of treating.

that we kind of really dismiss in medicine, like in Western medicine, like the way we go to school and we're trained in residency, we really dismiss a lot of it. So I've always wondered about the value. And one thing that stuck out to me was, now I'm a dermatologist and we talked about arnica. So arnica is a flowering plant that grows in Western Europe. It's been used for many, many hundreds of years in kind of traditional medicine.

And it really helps with bruising. So in dermatology, we're very comfortable with talking about arnica. And so I'd always wanted to make this post-procedure patch. you know, my family grew up in India and turmeric is also another, it's like this ubiquitous ingredient that was, that's anti-inflammatory. It's, it's, it's this incredible, it's this incredible plant. And it's funny because when I was in between residency and

Manju Dawkins (19:29.841)
my intern year, I did a year of research and one of the other scientists was studying turmeric. And anyway, so it's been in the back of my mind for over a decade and then thought like, how do we put these together? And it's funny because a roadblock in the manufacturing of prepare gave me the space to work on recover, which is the plant-based patch that you put on after that has turmeric and arnica.

And so that's another lesson that I feel that I've learned is just like, Hey, sometimes the thing that's like, feel like, no, it's all over. what is it? But you know, it's a blessing that you just can't see yet. And so there was a lot more ease in developing the recovery patch and it ended up being ready sooner than the prepare patch. So that came out first actually.

Alison Curfman (20:13.826)
Wow. so how did you know how to make sure this would be safe? Because we're actually talking about, I mean, the lidocaine itself can cause arrhythmias and dose dependent based on age or weight. How did you approach that?

Manju Dawkins (20:38.397)
That is such a great point. And so a lot of times now that we are telling people about the Prepare Patch, they're like, oh, there are lidocaine creams out there and there are lidocaine patches out there. And I'm like, yes. Nobody knows that they can use them for needle pain yet. But the issue is, does anyone know how to use them and how much to use? And when you're putting a cream on, if I tell you, two grams of that lidocaine cream on your hand,

What is that? I'm a dermatologist and I still don't know what that is exactly. and, and that's, that's part of why I think the prepare patch is important. know exactly how much lidocaine is in this, you know, based on the surface area of the patch and how much goes into it. And so we were very, very conscientious about like, is this dose safe in case someone misused this patch? And it was, yeah.

Alison Curfman (21:30.252)
Yeah, put an adult patch on a kid. Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

Manju Dawkins (21:34.885)
Yes. And so the quantity that is in this patch is still safe. I don't even want to say it out loud, but if, someone misses it, really.

Alison Curfman (21:41.216)
No, this is quality, this is safety planning, but clearly, so you have adult and pediatric sizes, I'm assuming, do have.

Manju Dawkins (21:49.82)
actually we created it so that it would be safe in children. So the way we've dosed it was based on the size of an infant. But the amount and size is still effective and obviously safe for an adult. Because when you think about it, it makes sense, right? A needle procedure, it's just this tiny poke in the center of this thing theoretically. You don't need to numb this whole area, right? So actually the size was very intentional. We wanted it to be kind of.

Big enough for an adult so that it would cover two veins in the antecubital fossa, for example, but small enough so that an infant could use it. And the other thing that is interesting to think about that people don't realize is like all these other lidocaine products out there were developed for a completely different purpose, right? They're all for musculoskeletal pain. And so even when you look at the pharmacokinetics of EMLA, it's meant to be left on the skin for eight to 12 hours too. And so it reaches steady state at two to three hours and then holds at that.

Alison Curfman (22:35.694)
Mm-hmm.

Manju Dawkins (22:45.341)
And ours, don't want, that's not our goal. Our goal was like, dump lidocaine in, remove the patch, and then there's no more lidocaine going in. So you get kind of less lidocaine overall. Know what mean? 30 to 90 minutes. So we want people to have success. So we usually tell people, you know, leave it on for an hour. And then when it's go time, you peel out the center portion and you're ready to go.

Alison Curfman (22:55.8)
How long does it take to work?

Alison Curfman (23:07.778)
Awesome. Well, what do you think are some of the biggest lessons you learned? mean, it sounds like you've had a really interesting and pivoting path along the way, and you had to do a lot of things that you frankly just literally did not know how to do. I know every founder, every successful founder that I've ever met has a very robust network of people to call on for help.

But what tips would you have for physicians out there who maybe have some sort of an idea that they think could be something important?

Manju Dawkins (23:46.354)
Yeah, I think the best part is like, we're really good at learning. We humans are good at learning things. And so know that if you could get through medical school, can do this. And then, I said this before, but like being able to ask for help is sometimes a challenge for us, but that is imperative. Like we don't know everything. And in this case, we don't know anything. You know what I mean? And so, but what surprised me was like how willing people are to help. Like people are excited to be a part of something new and they wanna...

They want to help and they want to feel useful. so that was, that was, I think a good lesson for me. and it's okay to not know. And it's okay to sound dumb. I think that was actually a really, if I don't know something now, I'm just like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you just spell that out for me real slowly?

Alison Curfman (24:33.472)
And you don't sound dumb. sound like very much like you absolutely know what you do know and you know your product and know your vision. but yeah, like there's a whole big world out there. We can't know everything. And I think what you said about people being willing and excited to help is true. Like I, I think about people I talk to in my network about all sorts of different questions or problems. And I always have someone to call or text about like, there's this weird thing. I wonder who would know about this.

And that's what this world is like. Like people are constantly, you know, connecting with each other and trying to solve problems and sharing the problems that they're trying. And I think, you know, growing your network is the number one thing that physicians can do right now today, whether they're going to found a company or not, whether they're going to become an advisor or not. it's, it's something that literally anyone can do is to start reaching out and connecting with people.

Manju Dawkins (25:33.5)
Yes, the introvert here. So that was really, really big challenge for me. And it's everything. think that's like a bit of a lie that we were fed, or at least I was, along the way that like, okay, if you're gonna be a doctor, all you need to do is put your head down and study and pass all the tests and do all the things. Networking doesn't matter in medicine. That is a bold-faced lie. I'm not talking about the startup world. I'm talking about even in medicine. Your network is your power.

I agree with you, like we all need to just get out of our shell. We're doing so much better now, I feel like. I think physicians are really waking up to this fact. And transparency is important. Like it's okay to talk about salary. It's fact important to talk about salary. Like that's how we're all gonna get what we all deserve and all of that. So I totally agree. I totally agree. And then also you just, we were talking before about practicing the things that are uncomfortable.

And yes, I feel a little bit lucky because a lot of this started happening during the pandemic. And so a lot of the kind of networking was online, which was a lot easier for me as an introvert, because I have the safety of a blanket underneath. You know what I mean? But then, you know, every conversation, you're like, oh, that wasn't so bad. Oh, that was. And then you can just keep going further and further out and realize like, wow, there are all these people around me that have this incredible knowledge that I didn't even know existed. Like I didn't know anything about.

Alison Curfman (26:43.235)
Yeah.

Manju Dawkins (27:00.219)
like the process of copywriting or like how design gets done or like how you design a supply chain. Like it's all these crazy things that people know how to do this already and we can ask for the help.

Alison Curfman (27:13.582)
And honestly, when it comes to networking, I like to like share my story, hear someone's story and see if there's anything I can do for them. Like that is the core of it is like, are there people that you can provide value to? Cause if you just do that, cause even if you don't have any sort of agenda or anything to sell or you're not looking for a job or anything and you're just constantly looking to provide value to other people, it will come back to you 10 times over because

Manju Dawkins (27:20.977)
Yes.

Alison Curfman (27:41.55)
then when you need something, you will have found more and more and more people that have that expertise. So what would you say is in the future for thimble health?

Manju Dawkins (27:58.376)
Yes, so there are other products in the pipeline. we want to, you know, got to do one thing at a time. So I'm trying to stay focused here, but there are other products that we'd like to help for infants and devices and things like that. But one step at a time, I mean, really what our focus is now is, you know, our intention is to change the standard of care for needle procedures. You know, I always say, like, I feel like we have this kind of Stockholm syndrome in a certain way. Like it's always been done like this and we've accepted it. And we just think like, well, this is normal.

But it doesn't have to be, you know what I mean? We can do better. just always say, it's just like anesthesia. Anesthesia's kind of new. It wasn't here until the 1840s, and now we offer it to everyone. It's not just the people who are afraid.

Alison Curfman (28:40.27)
It would be weird if we didn't.

Manju Dawkins (28:42.977)
It would be weird. So the same way, because people are always like, yeah, you can give it to the people who are really afraid of needles. I'm like, actually, I think it would be helpful for anyone. Like, human beings don't enjoy pain. And if we want them to repeat a behavior, then we need to start addressing the pain. You know, it's a public health issue. And so what I really hope is that it just becomes more ubiquitous and not such a strange, like luxury type of thing and just normal. I mean, we're sold.

to the consumer with sole direct to consumer, but also to businesses. And I hope over time that shifts, like instead of being more to the consumer, we hear all the time like, well, why isn't my doctor giving this to me? And we know now that the doctor doesn't have as much control over what gets given to you. And so that's why we have to go for the systems and hopefully ultimately something insurance covers or the insurance company sending to you in the mail, so we'll see.

Alison Curfman (29:34.69)
Yeah. Well, I love your vision. I love how much, you know, dedication you've put towards this for people that want to reach out. Her name is Manju Dawkins. She is on LinkedIn and we will put her LinkedIn in the show notes as well as her website. So look up Thimble Health and we'll put your website in the comments too. So thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your story.

Manju Dawkins (29:58.856)
Thank you so much. This has been so much fun.