The Confidence Curve
The Confidence Curve is a podcast that explores the dynamic journeys of successful professionals who have scaled organizations and left lasting legacies. Hosted by Ashley and Rick Bowers, each episode delves into the challenges, victories, and lessons learned. Through engaging conversations with leaders across industries, this podcast offers listeners valuable insights, practical advice, and inspiration to confidently navigate their paths—whether in business, leadership, or personal growth. Join us as we uncover strategies that build successful careers and impactful legacies.
The Confidence Curve
How Ashley & Rick Bowers Turned Setbacks Into a “Confidence Curve”
In this episode of The Confidence Curve, Ashley and Rick Bowers open up about their journey from corporate careers to entrepreneurial success and how their complementary strengths have powered both their business and personal partnership for more than 20 years.
From Rick’s early days duplicating assessment diskettes at TTI Success Insights to Ashley’s childhood passion for organization, their story reveals how curiosity, strategy, and stepping into discomfort built the foundation for Apex GTS. They candidly discuss pivotal career moments, including Ashley’s vulnerable reflection on what she once saw as her biggest professional setback, and how that experience reshaped her outlook on growth and resilience.
Whether you’re leading a team, launching a venture, or simply looking for authentic stories about leadership and perseverance, this episode offers practical wisdom and inspiration to help you grow and succeed.
Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and Rick Bowers, where personal and professional journeys define the art of scaling with confidence. Whether you're a business leader navigating change or someone seeking personal growth, this podcast offers insights and actionable advice to help you thrive. Now let's dive into today's conversation with our incredible guest.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Confidence Curve. My name is Ashley Bowers and I'm here with my co-host and husband, Rick Bowers. Today's episode is going to be a little different. We decided to take a moment and turn the mics on ourselves, talk a little bit about how we got here, why we got here and some of the lessons that we've learned in leadership in life, in working together and being entrepreneurs over, you know, the last 20 plus years that we've been on this journey in one capacity or another. So welcome to today's show and we hope you enjoy so kind of.
Speaker 2:You know, when we think about how we got started. You were working at TTI, Success Insights, and which back then was TTI Performance Systems. I think if we're really dating ourselves. I started at TTI as a receptionist. I think from interview one, you and I could kind of talk about anything and everything and that definitely created an amazing professional relationship which eventually bloomed into, obviously, our personal relationship and, I think, probably keeps us very strong and grounded still to this day and something that people look for in all of their relationships, whether they're business or personal. You know, thinking back to those days and why don't you kind of share a little bit with our audience about how you got started at TTI and what you were doing and kind of what brought you out to Arizona from Iowa and give a little bit of a back story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, when I think about kind of everything that you set up there and in the early days at TTI and and kind of what led to that, it really goes back to being from Iowa and the Iowa roots and how you kind of just do what's necessary kind of a thing, and and from a very early age, like I think I started mowing grass and and that kind of stuff in second or third grade and um, that led to, like delivering newspapers and, um, working on the farm, to all the different jobs that I had back there. That just kind of was like if something needed to be done, you did it, and it was that building of respect for for whoever was the leader at the time, and so that really kind of built, I think, something that isn't there anymore. Um, and I think the other thing that I was thinking about with this question is there wasn't an internet back then. You couldn't go and watch a youtube video, so like if you needed to figure something out, you had to figure something out on your own or go find somebody that knew how to do it or experiment, and so I think that kind of built a lot of the background to kind of what I'm about, what Apex is about.
Speaker 3:Kind of what you and I, because you started a little bit different than I did, but a similar path, I guess. Coming down from Iowa to go to Arizona State and ran into the owner of TTI. He knew my dad. They needed somebody part-time, so I started part-time going to ASU back in 1988. Fast forward 33 years later. It was time for a new transition and six months after that Apex was born.
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because, like when you first started right, it was doing whatever needed to be done and you kind of alluded to that Back then. You know, assessments were delivered on diskettes, like floppy disks and disks and and duplicating those and printing flyers and shipping things out, and then just slowly learn the business, learn the aspects you know through time and then obviously went up that ladder, you know, with Inside TTI. I think back to my upbringing and, although not Midwest, being, you know, born and raised here in Arizona.
Speaker 2:My grandfather my, you know my dad, like all my uncles, you know, born and raised here in Arizona, my grandfather my, you know my dad, like all my uncles, you know all in commercial construction, very hard work, and you know very significant work. Along with that, my grandparents owned beauty supplies. So this was before you had Ulta and Sephora and all these big box you know supply chains for beauty products, long before the internet, obviously, and so we had about 13 beauty supplies around the valley. And you know, growing up I would go to the work with my mom when before I was in school and now I hear the stories my aunt would be doing the books and I was three years old, sitting on the floor and separating out the visa, mastercard and Amex receipts and that was like the old carbon copy thing and my aunt would say Ashley, you know, hand me the visas and I would hand her the pile.
Speaker 2:That started with fours and I was three or four years old, you know, and sitting on the laps of reps that were selling us product and just being in the conversation and I know we've carried that on with our kids, taking them to business trips and just inviting them to the environment. I think and I think that that's so much of what has shaped who you are and who I am is we've always been in and around and trying to maximize what we're bringing to the environment, that we're in um, and what it can teach us and what we can take on to the next thing that we do, which definitely was a secret of success to us while we were at TTI.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and think I'm not sure where it comes from, but it turned into one of our core values the childlike curiosity which is, I guess, my favorite of our core values as well, and it's just that curiosity of how things work.
Speaker 3:I would get in trouble as a little kid for taking things apart but I wanted to see what was inside them and that kind of stuff. And and I it's still today. I think that's something that makes apex special is our abilities to be able to see the things that other people don't see, to pick up on the details, to pick up on the little things and then kind of dig into it, ask the questions, that kind of get it at a different level. And then my favorite thing with with whether it's coaching or working with a group of people, it's listening to what their answer is, because there's so much value in the words that people say and they don't even realize it when they say it. So that curiosity, I think, just plays out over and over, and I'm sure you're tired of it. It's like I'll say something. It's like did you notice that on the commercials or did you notice this in the show? It doesn't connect and it's like it just pick up on things that I don't think a lot of people pick up on.
Speaker 2:I think it's interesting, though, because you come from the place of, like how do I take it apart and see how all of it works and what's ticking? And then you know, instead of playing with paper dolls, I built org charts and built companies in my room as a little kid and like to see, like, how can you structure it back together in the right way to maximize that efficiency? You know, um, which is interesting Our poor children. They listen to us talk and this is what we talk about, but we love it.
Speaker 2:I think each of us can point back to a pivot that was. You know, that happened in our career. That maybe really changed the trajectory of where we went. And when I look at your career within TTI, one of the things that comes to mind was when you were kind of sectioned off to go and lead and build the international division. You know, being an entrepreneurial founder-led company, sometimes, you know, when you're an employee in that, you feel like you can't break a ceiling or move forward or you're never really going to get to that next step, and with that can be lost learning opportunity, because that person is there, and I feel like that was really pivotal for you to go and build something else to later come back and be the president of the whole thing. Can you talk a little bit about, maybe, the fear of like wait, you know, am I being put over here what's happening, why this change and then how it really helped your career in the long run?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was an interesting time because it was a little bit of uncertainty with what's this going to look like dealing with people in other countries. Sometimes there's language barriers, there's all of these things. But as it kind of started to play out and working with the international group and kind of understanding who they are and that things work just about the same internationally as they do in the US, and so that was kind of that comfort piece. And and then there's the confidence, because confidence comes from working through an uncomfortable situation and so I feel like I've gone through a lot of those kind of uncomfortable situations and whether that was intentional by by Bill, the owner of TTI, or if it was just coincidence, it worked out. But I think learning from people that have done certain things has been a key. People that have done certain things has been a key.
Speaker 3:And, uh, dave brought in another person on the team that was a kind of self-proclaimed problem solver rolando. And the thing I think really made a difference for me was the deming stuff, the fourth generation management, and seeing what that can do and putting a name to the processes and the things that were just in in our minds maybe, um, kind of helped to be a little bit more structured and and how you do it and realizing the thing, simple things like uh right things done right the first time, and that kind of stuff made a difference. And being able to then start traveling the world and seeing the different cultures and seeing how businesses worked from all over the world was, I think, a big part of the leadership development for me and and then learning from mistakes and we all made mistakes along the way and didn't really have a clear path of where we were going and kind of built it as we were going. It's, I think, flying or building the airplane as we fly.
Speaker 2:It is something that's pretty natural, I guess, for for me, you know it's funny, you mentioned the thing that builds the confidence. When I was first thinking about the career pivot topic, immediately I went to collectively the switch for me to go from TTI to HomeSmart.
Speaker 2:But as you mentioned the confidence piece, I think that was the first step, you know, after leaving TTI and you know, wanting to start consulting back then and doing things different, and had the opportunity to meet the founder of HomeSmart and join that organization as the chief operating officer. It was really about can I take everything that I've learned through in essence, like in the classroom at TTI, about how companies should operate you know there was some interaction with clients, but most of our work was with consultants and such and can I apply this and implement change and affect change and do the right things? And so that was kind of a confidence building piece. But a few years in I had that feeling of okay, box is checked, I did what I was asked to do, so much so that even at the end of strategic planning I like kind of put a bow on it and handed it to the CEO. I'm like this is what you asked me to do. You have it Like now what?
Speaker 2:And you know and and actually started, you know, working with TTI a little bit again and consulting with HomeSmart. At that time I think that big pivot for me. That really created a calmness. Now We'll probably talk about this as my biggest failure later no promise on no tears. But when I was you know, when we were being sat down and when we were at dinner with the founder of HomeSmart and he was like, come back full time and take it public and I was like I don't know how to do that. Right, I mean, that was my first answer and I was like I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 3:Right, I mean, that was my first answer.
Speaker 2:And I was like I'm really great at hiring, let me build you a team and that knows what they're doing. And he's like no, hire yourself a team and do this. And it was a five to seven year plan. Okay, we've got time. You know, fast forward. Nine months later, we're talking to investors and we're going on the path. And when I say I knew nothing about doing it, I knew less than nothing about doing it. And you know, no, it was not an option and we were going to, you know, figure it out. And I think I share that, because there's so many times in our careers where we're faced with something, whether it's entrepreneurship, whether it's the next step, whether it's a leadership challenge where we have no idea what to do. And that's okay, sitting in, that is not okay, right? So then, like, what are your next steps? Who are your resources? How do you reach out? How can you learn, learn, how can you grow? How can you lean into other people?
Speaker 2:and be okay with making some mistakes, be okay with owning the fact that you don't know what you're doing yeah and so can we go through this together, you know, and not having to be the smartest person in the room, right? Um, and I think that that has now taught me that it doesn't really matter what we're in front of, like, just figure it out, like you. You can, no matter how difficult, you can definitely figure things out. Now. I got a wild education through that two year process and, you know, have some depth in a lot of areas now and have some depth in a lot of areas now, but there's still a lot of areas it's like well, I don't know, but we'll find a way to get to. Yes, let me just figure out what that path looks like.
Speaker 2:I use the example or the analogy sometimes with teammates, right, a lot of places we go on a daily basis. We know how to get there, we know the path that we're supposed to take. I still put in ways just to see is there a detour? Is there this? Is there a faster way? Because there's often so many different ways to get to the goal, and just because we see the path that is the most consistent, the most straight line, doesn't mean that the straight line is actually going to get us there the fastest way, because we could have bigger roadblocks in that and and I think that that's important when we're looking at our careers, when we're looking at things that we're being faced with in organizations, um, and just how we go about life, I mean we talk about it with our life planning, that we do personally, you know I think it's.
Speaker 3:It's interesting because what you're just talking about with putting things into Waze or the Google Maps to figure out, even though we've been there every day, I do the same thing because I go to one client quite often, but it's like should I go to the 101 or the 51? And it's about being there and making sure you're on time and all of those things. But prior to Apex, we lived in a few different places in the Valley. Apex, we lived in a few different places in the valley and tti, for the most part, was in the same location for the entire 30 plus years that I was there.
Speaker 3:In 17 years, you were there within a few miles of different offices and things, and I would figure out new ways to go to the office because I would get bored driving the same way to the office every day, and so I think that's one of the one of the areas when you look at our behavior, behavioral styles and our driving forces that that's one that's a little bit different. You, you focus a little bit more on the structure of things and and the efficiency of things, and that's one where it's like I need something new, I need to do it a different way to get there too, so very interesting from that standpoint.
Speaker 2:So let's talk a little bit about kind of the transition to Apex. So obviously we started Apex in 22. You had transitioned out of TTI at the end of 21. And you know, going into that transition mid-2022, I was going crazy, you know, on a path to try to take an organization public. Lots of hours, lots of things happening and we really kind of figured out, I think holistically for us, what 100% is.
Speaker 2:And you know we get asked that question by friends and colleagues. You know, how do you work together, how do you have two people that are driving these different things and doing all these? You know all these different initiatives and obviously have a very strong personality and like, like, how does it all work? And even just most recently in our last conversation, just on our planning, you know it's not 50-50 all the time on everything right. And I think the difference with us is we look at our life as 100% and that's what we do outside of the home and what we do inside of the home. And on any given week, day, month, year, what split are? We each kind of feel like we have to cover that pie and we're just going to cover it together and I think that that's a lot of the foundation that we brought into. Why Apex and why? To start to do something on our own and to do something different. But why don't you talk a little bit about that creation and your thought process in naming Apex?
Speaker 3:because it was definitely a brainchild that you had, but also like what you wanted it to create for us yeah, I think when that transition happened and I decided it was time to do something different from the TTI standpoint and kind of looking at my accomplishments in life I guess is one way to say it what could I do next? And there was a lot of different ideas in this and that, but really I had been working with consultants, learning from consultants, training consultants on how to use the assessments and the tools in their businesses and things, and that was just kind of turned into a natural transition. And so as I started kind of thinking about, okay, what would a name look like, what would the business have in terms of services or products or those kinds of things and obviously the name is kind of an interesting process that I went through as well. But kind of going through, where does the name come from? And I'm a car guy, for those of you that know me, and so I always kind of like the GTS stamp letters and so Grand Touring Sport from a car standpoint, from an Apex standpoint, it's grow and succeed the things we want to help our clients do. So then it was like, okay, well, I know I want GTS, what's the word that goes in front of it, and so that was kind of all over the place and growing up in the 70s and 80s and like Acme from Roadrunner and Coyote living in Arizona Roadrunner and Coyote it was kind of like well, maybe Acme. So they started looking at that word and acme and apex were very similar and so apex seemed a little more appropriate. It does have a car connection because the apex of a corner the fastest way to get through the corner, um, so there was all of those connections and so it turned into apex, gts advisors from from that standpoint.
Speaker 3:But then transitioning through the business, it was like communication was always an issue, and one of the things that I would see in certain situations is sitting around a conference table in a meeting and there were certain people that talked all the time and certain people that were kind of quiet but you could see on their face that they had something to say and a lot of times they just don't say it. And so how do you put something together to help people communicate? How do you put something together to put comfort there, create that safe zone of communication? Because some of the greatest ideas that ever came out of the TTI boardroom, so to speak, were when we had a knock down, drag out argument over what we wanted to accomplish, because we walked in there with 16 different ideas and we came out with one and then we drove that one forward. But we were really kind of working through the five dysfunctions of a team and kind of having that trust in each other to build the, to have that constructive conflict and then have the buy-in to drive the idea forward, the peer accountability and achieving the results. So some of those things we were actually doing didn't realize the model at the time. Now it's one of my favorite models that I talk about quite often and from there it just kind of my favorite models that I talk about quite often. But um, and from there it just kind of turned into what it is today.
Speaker 3:I didn't think I would ever be excited about being a leadership coach or an executive coach, but it's one of my favorite parts of the, of the whole process and and going back to the, the driving forces, I always kind of played off of the more commanding and resourceful, being in charge and making a lot of money. But what I've found is I'm really driven by the intentional, which is about helping people that want to get better, so the people that have that drive to get better and they don't quite know how to get there. And doing that really is is something that's really fueled my passion for, for the apex business and and things that that I do on a daily basis. Your side of the business is a little bit different. You're not as excited about the people side, but talk a little bit about maybe you started with the, the org charts as a kid and that kind of stuff. So how does that lead into your working the strategy, building the strategies and doing the things that you like to do in Apex?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I just love to see the lights go on I think is probably the most simplistic way to say it and I love to empower people, to see the part that they play in a bigger vision. And I think that people are most successful when they understand what it is, that they're there to contribute, how their performance is going to be measured and kind of what they're going to gain out of that. What are those rewards? And I feel like doing things like stages of growth and strategic planning and execution planning and providing that communication and that forum and that scalability to individuals in an organization just creates a voltage inside a company. That is outrageous. And and then you have your people. We're like, okay, that person needs a little bit of tweaking here and there. Like get them a coach, have them go through assessments, do that. But you really see what people are made of and what they want to do when they have a plan in front of them and they can see themselves, they see themselves as a player in the game, right. And it's like how do you get everybody on the field when they should be on the field in the right spot, going the right direction at the right time? And I feel like that's what strategy does.
Speaker 2:I'm a full believer that people show up to do a great job every single day, that we don't try to go out to work to fail or make mistakes or be miserable. We've got to have them in the right spot and we have to have the right amount of information around them so that they can be successful and they can do the right things and they can ask the right questions. And then for me, it's very easy then to invest in those people, to develop them, because you're seeing what they're putting into it and you know I and potential is weird, right. So you might see someone that has a ton of potential, but maybe it's not what they want, you know. Maybe they don't want to work the 70 hours a week, maybe they want to have a different definition of balance for themselves, and you know that's okay. Maybe they don't want to have a different definition of balance for themselves, and you know that's okay. Maybe they don't want to manage others, you know.
Speaker 2:And so, really understanding, what does this person want? How does that fit into the bigger game that you're playing in business? Right, teach them all the rules, show them the goal line and then get out of their way, remove the obstacles, provide the resources you know and let them go. And I think that that's just really powerful when you can see that all come together and create that alignment, you know.
Speaker 2:And then you go in on quarterly check-ins and you're like, yeah, done, done, done, because everyone knew the game plan, they had a playbook, they knew how to operate and it just really allows you to have healthy, sustainable, scalable growth, which then you can do so much more for your people and you can pay them more and you can do more benefits and you can give back to charity and you can, you know, make a bigger impact. So it just cascades all of that across the organization and ultimately the community, which I think is pretty powerful. When you think about we do a lot of reading in our world. Okay, what is a book that you really think maybe has changed your perspective since you have been leading Apex?
Speaker 3:That's tough because there are so many of them and there are so many bits and pieces. And driving from client to client, I listen to a lot of books. I think I have 48 of them currently on my Audible library a few that I haven't got to yet, a few that I've listened to more than once From a peer leadership standpoint. I think how to Lead when You're Not in Charge by Clay Scroggins was one of the biggest ones that I've taken so much stuff from.
Speaker 3:Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Lindsay Yoni is another one that I quote quite often and, believe it or not, I really got into the Covey stuff and I didn't ever read that. I always say that the two things that if I could go back and tell my teenage self something which I probably wouldn't have listened anyway, knowing teenagers. But, um, I didn't pay attention in typing class because I thought I will never type in the rest of my life, why do I need typing class? And now I type every day and I wish I would have read more, and so, like the 30 plus years at TTI, I didn't read that many books. There was a few, but since leaving TTI and starting Apex, it's like not quite a book a week, but getting close.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so it really makes such a difference because there are so many nuggets in the books that come up in a coaching process or a conversation with a client. And then I love to just kind of take the ideas of this concept, what they're talking about, and it's like how can I build like a one page, one pager that I can share with several people on how to apply the things that we just were talking about? And so that's been fun from that standpoint. So if I had to narrow it down, it'd be those um, I know your answer will probably be something around the the andy andrews stuff so I knew that's what you were gonna think um.
Speaker 3:But just to finish that thought and tie it back to TTI a little bit, we always laughed whenever Bill Bonstead or the owner of TTI would say doing something's better than nothing, and it was like never made sense. But now in a couple of those books, do something? Is the answer yes, and it's like it was in a conversation with a client today. It was like you just have to do something, so act, don't stand still talk about your books okay.
Speaker 2:So yes, I'm a big fan of the traveler's gift by Andy Andrews. Typically, if I have a newer leader that's looking to really understand leadership, that is a recommendation I make because it's more on principles of decision making and leadership versus a structure or a model to follow, and I think that sometimes, especially newer in our careers, we can try to emulate other leaders that we see and then it becomes inauthentic, right, and so it's not genuine of who you are as an individual and I feel like the Andy Andrews work allows you to really be your authentic self and elevate your leadership style. But if I had to pinpoint kind of a life-changing book, I think I would actually go to Breaking the Glass Slipper, and so that was a book that I read summer of 23. And at that point we had, you know, made the decision that we were not going to take the organization that I was working for public and had started to kind of right size it for private capacity again versus for the run, and that, as you know, is monumentally difficult for me. I really saw that as a failure on my own part, that I couldn't get us quite across that finish line. We had approval and all of that, but market did not cooperate and we were on vacation and I read this book and the book really is about kind of being unapologetic for who you are and for making the decisions that are right for you right now and how that impacts your life, your family, your friends, your community, your work. And it was just, it was a book I needed in the moment and so I would say, if you're, you know, it is definitely written towards the female slant, I think it, you know, can definitely go both directions. But if you're kind of at that decision point of, well, what's next and should I or shouldn't I, it just gives a lot of different perspectives.
Speaker 2:And you know, going into that trip, um, I had made the decision that I was reducing to 50% of my time in my role and was going to be doing apex 50% of the time. And during that trip, when I finished my book, I came to you and I said I think I'm going to do 100% and so we had that shock value conversation. And then obviously I needed to have that conversation when I returned home and it just gave me that I can't even say confidence. It was more of a push because the safe decision was one foot in, one foot out, right. And the one foot in, one foot out wasn't going to lead to happiness, it wasn't going to lead to a change in behavior and it definitely kind of pushed me over the edge to say like you need to wake up and do something different. You know, conversations with our youngest son happened as well that were eye-opening and it was like okay, it's time to make a change. But I do credit that book for giving me maybe the courage is the right word to kind of make that jump. So I know we want to talk about failures and so maybe I'll just kind of transition into that because I touched on it.
Speaker 2:You know we all try to go after big things in life and you know some bigger than others, but for any one person it's as big as you feel, it is right, it's big to you and that's what matters, because you're sitting in your seat and you know, obviously, trying to IPO a company was big and I don't think anyone would argue with that and this one was in particularly large with the way in which we were structured and what we were doing and acquisitions and things are all happening at the same time and, as I mentioned earlier, I had no idea what I was doing and so learning and growing through all of that, you know we kind of made the decision mid-2022 that it probably wasn't real, feasible and I mean, if we're being candid I have to say it was probably early 2024 that I could talk about it not happening without being brought to tears. Yeah, and it was that real and that personal for me. And you know, you put in the 90 hours a week for however long, and the grind and the sacrifices and all of that, and I would love to sit here and say, but I did all this work and then what happened? The work led to a great education, great teamwork, major strides, like there's a lot of success in all of that with the work. I don't even care that it was all the work. It there was a goal that wasn't achieved and in my mind and so like by definition, like that was failure and and in hindsight it was good and it was the right decision for the business and all of those kinds of things. But it took a really long time and I would, so I would actually now say my biggest failure wasn't that.
Speaker 2:My biggest failure was how I looked at the situation and for how long it took me to get back to a place where I didn't feel like I needed to like find what my next was or make up for it differently, and that I could just be good with what was and move on in a healthy way. And I mean, it probably took me like 18 months to really get to a good place after all of that. So you know sharing that, because we all have those moments, we have those things we're leading up to. You know, maybe you're thinking about doing an acquisition, maybe you're thinking about selling off a piece of your company or you're working through your exit strategy doing an acquisition, maybe you're thinking about selling off a piece of your company or you're working through your exit strategy.
Speaker 2:You might go through three, six, ten different things that don't work out. You're going to learn in each one. Your company is going to be better after each one, because you're constantly like cleaning things up and right-sizing and doing all of that. But don't forget to enjoy that part of the journey and to look at the journey as that um, just finished gap in the gain Right, and so keeping in that gain mindset and the progress versus what you were originally trying to achieve. Um, but allow yourself to be human too. You know we don't have to have it all together all the time, and when you're going that hard after something and you're putting that much effort into it, you know there is a cycle for getting through that and processing it. And just allow yourself that and don't think you're the only one and don't be shy in leaning in for others, you know, for support.
Speaker 3:That gave me time to think because I knew I was going to have the same question and I think that there wasn't a failure in there. I mean you did everything you needed to do. There were a lot of factors that went into the timing that really were the piece, and that's where you and I had a lot of conversations over that. Next, whether it was six months, 12 months, 18 months, wherever you got to the point where you can have that conversation about it. Thinking to mine, I don't know that I've ever done anything that big, so that I don't have a story that really compares to it. But I've got a couple of things that I've been thinking about, and one is kind of early on, when I started doing more training with TTI and made a couple international trips and got the hard feedback of it wasn't it may be okay to present like that in the United States, but it doesn't have the same level of professionalism for Europe that Europe needs and expects kind of a thing, and so digesting that and just kind of understanding what I needed to do to be a better speaker from that standpoint, which is one of the things I really do enjoy I think that was something that I learned a lot from of kind of saying, ok, where do I go from here, what do I need to do, so that I can in my mind it's what do I need to do so I can prove them wrong, that I am a good speaker, kind of a thing. So it's just a little bit of a thought process from there, but it turned into something that was very, I think, good long-term. The other one is learning to fail fast and accept that it's not working in reverse course, and I don't even remember what it was, but there was something that I was driving hard through TTI, that I wanted to make this change and it was going to be good for the organization and for consultants involved and everybody, and I think it was maybe two weeks in. It was just not going the way I thought it would and so it was like reverse it, let's go, I will, I will take the fall for this and just kind of seeing the positivity of everybody from making that quick change and learning to fail fast versus just keep beating the dead horse, so to speak.
Speaker 3:I think those are a couple things, and now I can utilize those kinds of things in conversations, in coaching conversations, in those kinds of areas to help the light bulbs and things come on. You had mentioned earlier about you like to see the light bulbs come on. And I was actually in a coaching conversation one morning and we were talking about doing it yourself versus involving your team. And it's like he said to me but the team doesn't ever offer any solutions. And I said, because you walk into a room and tell them what to do. Well, yeah, I was like, okay, what if you walked in the room and you asked them what they thought? And he looked at me. He's like I can do that. Well, of course, he's like it's like a 5 000 watt light bulb just went off above my head and it like changed his, changed his life almost in terms of how he dealt with people and that kind of stuff, and so I wouldn't call it it was a failure, but it was just like an aha moment for that coaching person. And it just comes from how do we take the lessons learned and utilize them and apply them forward and that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:And I think a lot of companies don't they either cover it up. And it was funny because the company I was working with yesterday we were talking about accountability, and their word for that is don't be the cat. I was like, what does don't be the cat mean? And I'm thinking well, I'm at ASU, so maybe it's Wildcats, but no, that wasn't it. They're like well, what does a cat do when it goes to the bathroom? It goes in the litter box and it covers it up. It's like don't be the cat. And so that was their yeah that was their way of.
Speaker 2:Of saying uh, be accountable for your actions kind of a thing. So that was pretty cool. It works, yeah, um. So I think kind of the final topic we wanted to discuss with our viewers today is, um, advice, uh, and we kind of framed it up as like the best piece of advice that we had received or your favorite piece of advice. I wanted to start with a piece of advice that probably led me down the wrong direction for a while.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, early in my career I was getting some coaching on from a leader on how I was showing up and too vulnerable, too animated, too this and just too transparent, and so for years I was trying to put on the front and be more poised and you know watching exactly what I would say, and I had a direct report across my desk one day and we were handling a really volatile situation with a customer and I was nervous and and I was like shaking, um, I was basically shutting off this customer's business. Uh, and rightfully so. We had done the documentation, like everything was above board, but it still was not an easy decision to execute. And so after we get off the phone with this individual hang up, you know, I asked, you know, my teammate. I said you know, do you have any questions Like what did you learn from you? Know me demonstrating that for you? And he looked at me and he goes that you're human. I was like what does that even mean? And he goes that's probably the first time I've seen you be really human. I was like what does that even mean? And he goes that's probably the first time I've seen you be really human. And it just hit me. You know, all this advice on advice on how we needed to show up in the room and not being transparent and not being open with our teammates was actually making me come across as not trustworthy and like I was hiding something and that I wasn't authentic.
Speaker 2:And there's balance. Obviously we want to have executive presence and be professional, but how do you do that? Where you are transparent and where you are showing, you know that you're not hiding things and because people will follow that person, they follow people they trust and they follow people that they believe in. You know, know being liked eventually is important. Sure, it's nice, but being trusted and knowing that you know if I follow this person, they're going to be real with me, I'm going to understand the path and they're going to have my back as we go through this process together. And so I do kind of caution right process together. And so I do kind of caution right, making sure that you're aligned in an organization that is aligned with your core values and who you are, where you can be your authentic self. You know later.
Speaker 2:You know, working in an organization where it very much was you are who you are and show up as you are and that that's okay. And it's probably like the other extreme right, still overly transparent at times. It is definitely my a fault of mine, but people know where they stand and so I just, you know caution, some of that advice, because I think that it did lead me down a trail for a little bit that I was probably disenfranchising my team versus connecting with them. And then the other thing kind of goes back to like you don't know what you don't know until you're in front of it.
Speaker 2:And I had a business coach external one time when you know we were leading the organization and talking about the goals over the next couple of years, I'm like, but am I going to know how to run that size company?
Speaker 2:And he just kind of took me back from when I started running the company and he's like did you know how to run this size or this size? So you know, if you're sitting there and you have a five million dollar company, you may not know how to run a 10 million dollar company, you may not know how to run a 15 million dollar company, but when you had a 1 million dollar company, did you know how to run a five? Yeah, right. And so if you're at a 50 and you're going to 150, like, no, you don't, but you didn't know how to do what you're doing right now, before you were doing it too. Like, do we have our textbook? Do we have our models? Sure, but until you're in it, you really don't know the ins and outs and the dynamics and the complexity that people bring to the equation. And, um, you know. So I would just encourage people to kind of fight through that and understand. It's okay to understand that you don't know what's next, but enjoy the journey of figuring it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, those uncomfortable situations build the confidence, and that's what you need. You figured it out, you'll figure out the next one, you'll figure out the next one, and every day we're getting more and more tools at our fingertips to kind of do that. Sometimes you don't even have to type, you can just talk to your computer and it tells you what you need to know too. So that's nice.
Speaker 2:I guess something that's really beautiful about what you do, though, is, you know, yes, like I love the structure and the strategy and those kind of things, but you really sit down with that individual and have them, you know, increase their self-awareness, really understand who they are, what makes them tick, where their faults are, how they're perceived, so that they have that frame of reference for going into the organization and playing that part in the game and being that player in order to execute, which is a pretty amazing seat at the table.
Speaker 3:And I think that kind of ties to the advice question too, and I guess I'll stick with the graphic stuff that I've started today. Um, don't just show up and throw up. I mean you have to be authentic. Um like to take that a little bit more specific. It's you have to have your own stories and so, like those early days of doing training and some of those kinds of things is you would regurgitate what other trainers have said because it's like, well, that made a lot of sense, but it's not your own story, so it's not as authentic as once you've done it yourself. And then you can start to apply that.
Speaker 3:And and I think that authenticity also comes back to the ability to ask questions and then truly listen to what the answers are and then use the words of the other person. And I think that's where the coaching stuff really really thrives is because it's not me telling them what they need to do. It's me asking them questions and then pointing out the things that they've already said and just saying try it this way, what if you did this? What impact is that going to have? I mean, and just those are the types of things that make a difference, and I think I forget what it's called the awe question. And what else? Yes, and so it's like and what else? And so like. Then they start thinking and sometimes it's the most important piece comes from the and what else? Question you know.
Speaker 2:I think the most freeing moment as a leader is that moment when you realize that your job is not to have all the answers. You know, and because we can always have questions. Questions are easy. We can ask questions all day long and be curious, but we don't have to have all the answers, we don't have to have it all figured out. And that is a very freeing moment as a leader when we can rest on that and and build that confidence to be okay with not having all the answers and being in that room.
Speaker 3:And, I think, another. That's a freeing moment. One of the hardest transitions as a leader is understanding that you're not responsible for the work. You're responsible for the people that are doing the work. And it's like we want to jump back in and get our hands dirty and that kind of stuff, but sometimes that's the worst thing you can do as a leader versus.
Speaker 2:I need to see that checklist with everything highlighted at the end of the day, yeah, yes, I am one of those people that writes things down that are done, just so that I can highlight them as done.
Speaker 3:But it just keeps coming up. I had that conversation this morning with the client as well. It's just like no, that's not what you should be doing. But I mean, it's just like no, that's not what you should be doing. But I like to do it, but still, you're not. That's not it.
Speaker 2:Well, this has been great. You know, as always, our goal is to inspire leadership, inspire confidence and help, you know, all of you reach your apex in your organizations and your life and what you're trying to achieve. So I hope you enjoyed getting to know a little bit more about the two of us and kind of what's behind the story of Apex and where we are with our careers today. So thank you for watching.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning in to the Confidence Curve. We hope today's episode left you inspired and ready to embrace your journey confidently. Remember whether you're leading a team, growing your business or pursuing personal growth, each step forward builds your curve. If you enjoyed today's conversation, don't forget to subscribe, share and leave us a review For more insights and resources. Visit us at apexgtscom. Until next time, keep climbing the curve.