ADHD, Perfectionism & Faith: Why You Feel Exhausted Trying to “Get It Right” with God | 30

If you’ve ever found yourself wondering…

“Why does everything feel so hard—even when I’m trying my best?”
“Why can’t I stay consistent with God, my goals, or my routines?”
“Why do I feel overwhelmed, behind, or like I’m failing?”

This episode is for you.

In today’s conversation on The Redeemed Perfectionist Podcast, we’re diving into the powerful and often misunderstood connection between ADHD, perfectionism, and faith—especially for high-achieving Christian women.

Joined by coach Cassie Miller, we unpack what ADHD actually looks like beyond the stereotypes, and why so many women silently struggle with overwhelm, emotional sensitivity, procrastination, and all-or-nothing thinking.

But more importantly—we talk about God’s heart in the middle of it all.

Because this isn’t just about productivity.
 It’s about identity.
 It’s about grace.
 And it’s about breaking free from the belief that you have to “get it right” to be loved by God.

✨ In this episode, you’ll learn:

•  What ADHD really is (and why it’s not a character flaw) 
•  Why high-achieving women are often overlooked or undiagnosed 
•  How perfectionism can develop as a response to overwhelm 
•  The difference between internal struggle and external appearance 
•  Practical ways to reduce overwhelm and build momentum 
•  How to quiet self-criticism and release shame 
•  What it looks like to walk with God in grace—not performance 

If your faith has started to feel heavy…
 If your mind feels loud…
 If you’ve been striving to stay consistent but keep falling into the same patterns…

this episode will help you feel seen, understood, and equipped with a new way forward.

And friend—this is just the beginning.

This episode is part one of a series where we’re going to go deeper into what this looks like in your daily life, how to navigate overwhelm in real time, and how to step into a rhythm of grace that actually feels sustainable.

If you’re ready to go deeper in breaking free from perfectionism, you can also explore my book, You Will Make Mistakes: Discovering God's Grace in the Midst of Perfectionism, where I share the journey God walked me through to move from striving to freedom.

🎧 Press play and discover what it looks like to move from performance to partnership… and from exhaustion to grace.

🌐 Connect with Lenee' Pezzano and The Redeemed Perfectionist

        👥 Find Your People -- Join The Redeemed Perfectionist Facebook
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        💰Show support:  The Redeemed Perfectionist | Where Grace Meets Grit: Healing the Perfectionist Heart | Patreon

Transcript

ADHD, Perfectionism & Faith: Why You Feel Exhausted Trying to “Get It Right” with God | 30

[00:00:00] There's a pattern I see in a lot of high-achieving women, and you might experience it too. It's when you perform well on the outside, but internally you feel like you're constantly behind and scattered and barely holding it together. Sometimes it looks like chronic overwhelm, where everything feels equally urgent, or you have difficulty prioritizing, and the mental load feels constant and loud.

You may have experienced that nagging voice that asks, "Why does this feel so hard for me when it seems so easy for everybody else?" Or maybe you've noticed another pattern where you're hyper-focused, you're locked in, you're working for hours getting so much done, or you're completely stuck and you can't start at all.

Procrastination, anyone? And the longer you sit there, the harder it feels to move. How about when you experience mental 

[00:01:00] clutter and racing thoughts which show up as constant inner dialogue, never really landing, and difficulty being still? And if you already struggle with perfectionism, you might try to overcompensate by creating rigid systems to stay on track or overpreparing, overthinking, and over-delivering.

If you can relate to any of these real-life expressions, it's easy to conclude that maybe you're lazy or undisciplined or a failure at follow-through, and so you try harder, and then you burn out, and with each repeat of the cycle, shame deepens. But what if I told you that the reason isn't a character issue, but maybe it's actually because your brain is wired differently?

Hey, Sis. Welcome to the Redeemed Perfectionist Podcast. One of the reasons I'm looking forward to today's conversation is because for years I have jokingly said that if I had been tested as a child, 

[00:02:00] I would likely have been diagnosed with ADHD. Full transparency, I did not really know what that meant. It was more of a vague assumption that being scattered must equal ADHD.

But then in the last couple of years, I started hearing more about how common ADHD is in women. And then I met today's guest, Cassy Miller from Soul Spark Consulting. I took a free course of hers on ADHD, and my mind was blown. I started recognizing things I had never had language for before including how perfectionism can be tied to all of this.

Now let me be very clear, neither Cassy or I are medical professionals, and today's conversation is only meant to raise awareness. It is not intended to diagnose anybody. If you walk away resonating with anything in the conversation and you want to pursue medical advice diagnosis, please feel free to do so.

[00:03:00] We can't do that for you here. But by the end of this episode, my hope is that you do walk away with language for something you probably experienced for a long time but never knew how to explain. And that you'll start to see the difference between what actually is happening in your brain and the story you've been telling yourself about it.

And that you gain some really practical ways to work with your brain instead of against it. So you're not just understanding the struggle, you actually have somewhere to go from here. And maybe most importantly, that you leave with a little less shame around the things that have felt the hardest.

If you would be so kind, would you show a little love to this episode by liking it, downloading it, and or sharing it? And remember subscribe so we can spread God's life together to those who really need to hear it.

[00:04:00] Well, Cassy, welcome to the Redeemed Perfectionist Podcast. It's really, a conversation I have so been looking forward to and just for the listeners' sake, I wanna read a little bit of, the About page from your website, just so folks have a little bit of understanding of who we're talking to today.

So we've got Cassy Miller here from Soul Spark Consulting. If you want to go to her website, I'll make sure it's in the notes, but it's soulsparkconsulting.com. And Cassy's a certified professional coach, consultant, and former executive leader, and she says she's proudly neurodivergent, which I can't wait to unpack that even more.

She's got a background as an executive and program director in the nonprofit sector and brings over a decade of leadership experience to her work. So Cassy's 

[00:05:00] somebody that's led teams. She's built programs from the ground up, definitely has supported burned-out executives, and really navigated the complexities of organizational growth and people management.

So Cassy, you're a certified professional coach, and it sounds like you blend evidence-based methods with deep listening, emotional intelligence, and a commitment to ongoing learning. So you've got all kinds of additional certifications, which is really awesome, but it's really personal for you. As a neurodivergence coach, you understand what it means to thrive in systems that weren't built for your brain.

Mm. You've lived the tension between high achievement and hidden struggle, and you bring that lived experience into every session with empathy, curiosity, and zero judgment. And of course, you work with individuals, leaders, and organizations. 

[00:06:00] So welcome today, Cassy. Thank you so much. Ah, it's gonna be- I'm happy to be here.

Well, I think one of the things that, oh, ever since I've met you that's really hit me and I say this in the intro, but I truly used to joke about, "Oh, if I ever was assessed, I would probably be diagnosed ADHD," and I didn't know what that meant. I was really saying that from a stereotype that being scattered meant that I was ADHD.

Mm-hmm. But there's truly, truly so much to this, and the more I learn, the more I can relate to- what people go through who really are neurodivergent and just what that can really mean. So I think for the listeners today, we really wanna dive into this because label or no label, I think it's important to provide information that might help folks finally put language to things they're experiencing- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

[00:07:00] and recognize that there's hopes and there's steps that they can take. So yeah, so welcome. So- Well, thank you so much So Cassy, is there anything you would like to share as we open up? I mean, obviously we're gonna dive into some questions, but is there anything you wanna share before we jump in? I think one of the things that I would like to share is that my certifications in coaching, really is around whole person coaching.

However, I've done a ton of research in order to support working with individuals with ADHD, and I've done most of that actually prior to even getting into the coaching sphere, and that really was born out of my own discovery of what was happening for me, post-diagnosis, which I don't know if we're gonna talk about that at all, but you know, one of the things that happened for me, and I think that it happens for a lot of individuals, is I 

[00:08:00] received that diagnosis, was given the option, you know, to use medications or not use medications, therapeutic responses, things like that.

But that was really it. There wasn't any guidance. Mm. Here's what to expect, here's where you can get these resources. And I found through my research that there is not a ton of resources out... Well, it's growing, I'll say that, but at the time there was really, it didn't seem like a ton of resources out there, where w- for example, a therapist that really specialized in, in working with ADHD and, you know, things like that, at least in my local area.

And so I had to take it upon myself to really get out there, dig into, learning about ADHD, learning some tips and tricks and hacks, and figuring out through that experimental process what worked for me and what didn't work for me. And so I just think that that's really important to share with your listeners, is a lot of times with or without the diagnosis, 

[00:09:00] it's really something you wanna be motivated to go out and seek information on, rely on the resources you have available to you.

There are, you know, for example, like, like myself, there's coaches out there that pay particular, you know, attention to ADHD and symptoms and how to grow, in that process. Yeah, that's really important. So let's talk about how you personally discovered your own neurodivergence, and how did that reshape life for you?

Mm. It was, it was incredibly impactful. So it was in my late 30s, and I had what I describe as really hitting bottom. I was unraveling in so many ways. I had had this lengthy career. I had climbed the ladder. I was doing what everyone would describe as, w- really successful endeavor, and I raised my four kids and I 

[00:10:00] believe that I did that with good results. They turned out to be amazing human beings. And, you know, just managing a home and all of that. Well, I started noticing that I could no longer manage being all the things, not all the time, for sure. If I was to focus my attention and time and energy towards my work, then maybe my home would fall apart, or if I'm focusing on my home and work, maybe relationships suffered.

So I'd reached a point that I described as just complete burnout. I was so done and I really was trying to figure out what's going on for me because it didn't feel like, you know, I wasn't burnt out on my work. I wasn't burnt out on my family. I wasn't... You know, what was this feeling? And I kept pushing medical providers, "Really, I think we need to look at this."

And I remember being told by my, provider, 

[00:11:00] he said, there's no way that you have ADHD. You have held a career this long. You wouldn't be able to keep a job. And it was so frustrating, had you thought you had ADHD or- Yeah, at that point- What, what made you explore that in particular?

At that point, I had started kind of piecing together the symptoms, and I have a lot of loved ones, family members, friends that do have ADHD, and I started looking. Not that it's a comparison, because everyone is different, but I started seeing things in myself that I hadn't seen before, that I had, masked, that I had, done all sorts of things to thrive and that wasn't working anymore.

And so I started seeking that after some research and then I was kind of, you know, getting that response and put in a position where, okay, well maybe I don't have it. Maybe I'm just really depressed. Maybe I'm just really riddled with anxiety. 

[00:12:00] And it wasn't until later that I had a different provider that heard me- Mm, went through assessments, and made that diagnosis of combined ADHD. And there were a lot of emotions that went through me. One part of me was just completely relieved. I could put a name to what I was feeling. Yeah. another part of me felt a lot of shame I would describe it kind of as grief because I have people around me in my life who had ADHD who were not able to function at the level that I was functioning and so I had guilt around that.

Like are we sure that I have this because, you know, this one doctor said this and that and, and so it took a lot of work for me to get to a point where I was like, okay, everybody experiences ADHD differently. Yeah. there's definitely, no, like situation. And so, um, I just started being able to accept that and

[00:13:00] as I did more and more research and started not only looking at the challenges that I had but looking at the gifts that I had- Mm- that I think really were part of my ADHD makeup that- Mm-hmm ... really led me to be able to be incredibly compassionate and empathetic and, thrive in areas where I really loved or had a, a significant interest in, such as the work that I did. Yeah. Oh, I mean, it just feels like God chose you to be somebody who can break through stereotypes and barriers, and really help truly His children overcome.

And, you know, one of the things that has struck me as I have s- started learning more about this is that while I never had the label or the diagnosis, 

[00:14:00] the best practices, the tactics that you teach to help people navigate life who are wired this way- It's like Holy Spirit was teaching me those same things all through the years.

So I never had medical attention from a natural doctor of any kind, but I sure had the doctor guiding me- Mm-hmm. Right. ... guiding me all the way. So I wanna share with you and the listeners just a quick set of common symptoms- ... that I found as I was looking up different things for today's talk, and it seems that a lot of these symptoms are pretty common in high-achieving women, which is typically the folks who I talk with.

So I'm just gonna run through them. There's, like, eight of them. We don't have to get into depth on all of them but would love to see what pops out at you as I read through these. 

[00:15:00] So, uh, chronic overwhelm is a big one, even with simple tasks. So this might look like everything feels equally urgent, or a person may have difficulty prioritizing, and then there's that mental load that feels, like, constant and loud.

Mm-hmm. Oftentimes asking yourself, "Why does this feel so hard for me when it seems easy for everyone else?" Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Another one is called the all-or-nothing productivity. So either a person's hyper-focused, working for hours without stopping, or completely stuck and avoids everything. Mm.

Which that I know has trickled into the perfectionism category big time, and we can talk about that more. The third one is time blindness, and so that's where we underestimate maybe how long things take, or we run late even when we're trying not to be, or we're cramming or rushing last minute despite good intentions.

[00:16:00] So there's that whole category of time blindness. Then there's this hyper-focus, symptom where you can lock in so deeply on things that are interesting or urgent, which- Mm ... I do that very well. Mm. Or you lose track of time, of meals, of surroundings. So it can look like discipline, but it's actually regulation driven by interest or urgency, which, man, I thought, "Oh gosh, I can relate to all of these already."

Mm-hmm. Um, then there's one that was called, this is number five, emotional sensitivity, often misread as too much. So strong reactions to criticism or feeling misunderstood or letting people down, which I guess is often tied to what's called rejection sensitive dysphoria, or RSD. Mm-hmm. Uh, the sixth one was mental clutter plus racing thoughts.

[00:17:00] So there's this constant inner dialogue, jumping between thoughts where you just can't really settle down- Mm-hmm ... and even difficulty being still, which I laugh 'cause I'm like, well, that can deeply impact our prayer time or that whole being still and knowing that God calls us to in Psalm 46. Mm-hmm. Um, number seven, difficulty starting.

So this is not laziness. It's more of an activation struggle where you procrastinate on important tasks, or you wait until the pressure creates urgency. Mm-hmm. And then lastly, it talked about overcompensation through perfectionism, which of course- Absolutely ... we know all about. Maybe, it shows up creating rigid systems to stay on track or overpreparing, overthinking, over-delivering.

Right. So gosh, I, I read these real-life expressions, and I felt seen. I felt seen, Cassy. 

[00:18:00] Absolutely. So what bubbles up for you when I read these? So much bubbles up for me. And if I had the list in front of me, I'd go through each one. But the one that's really jumping out of, out at me is the rejection sensitivity dysphoria.

And, people will say, "Oh, they're so sensitive. Oh," you know, a- and, and it can be really challenging to hear that feedback from people when you're already experiencing shame. Yeah. And it can come in as, you know, "Oh, I shouldn't be so sensitive. I shouldn't react this way or feel this way." But a lot of times it's something that we internalize, and it has significant consequences.

It will hold us back, because the risk might be too great, uh, because- Mm-hmm ... we don't wanna go through the pain. 

[00:19:00] So that could be in a relationship. That could be in, you know, trying to look at a promotion at work. It really is an experience that impacts all areas of our lives. Now, not everybody with ADHD has RSD; however, it, is- often a, a, a co-occurring event. That’s where you hear a lot of times with, you know, folks feeling like, oh, They're so sensitive, they're so emotional, they don't have thick skin. and there's so much more that feeds into that, you know, and it- it's, a lifetime of why can't you just...

And that is something that people with ADHD often hear of frequently throughout their lives. Why can't you just do this? Why can't you just... If you just apply yourself. And that feeds into those feelings even more. 

[00:20:00] Yeah. Well, I think that's a perfect segue into maybe before we keep diving into symptoms, we take a step back and we talk about ADHD because folks may not fully understand ADHD, and it's not really about a lack of attention or a failure in somebody's character or discipline.

It's truly, brain-based difference in people who have it. So help us walk through the realities of ADHD and what that really means. Yeah, and I think one of the things that I wanna start out with is talking a little bit about, the difference that we often see in adult women who are experiencing ADHD versus, the little boy that's getting diagnosed.

There are three types of ADHD, and, while I can't really speak to women are more 

[00:21:00] likely to have this type of, of ADHD, I have found in the folks that I'm working with, most of the time it is an impulsive or inattentive or- a combined, where you get a little bit of both. And you're right, it's not about lack of attention.

In fact, it can be where we're spreading our attention over so many things that we... You know, you talked a little bit about the hyper-focus, which is something we can talk more about. Um, it's an interesting phenomenon and you know, without getting too technical, but it's really about dopamine regulation and so we, we struggle more with some of the things that you talked about - task initiation and time blindness and all of these different things. We have to find where we can get what people call the dopamine hit, right? 

[00:22:00] Yeah. Yeah. So that's where you get into, some of the scrolling or the, things like that that increases that.

So one of the things I think it's important to note is it does often look like having a ton of potential capability, but not accessing it consistently. Mm. Yeah. And with women, most of the time what symptoms we're experiencing are really internal, and so the external world, especially if we're, you know, quote unquote good at masking, the external world is not necessarily seeing what's happening.

So a lot of stuff is going on in there, you know, in our brains, that other people aren't seeing. So you mentioned, in some of those symptoms, just with a lot of, I affectionately and not-so-affectionately refer to it as the chaos in my head. Yeah. Um, all of those thoughts that are flooding in constantly.

[00:23:00] You can't get a break. Yeah. We have such a high capacity. Mm-hmm. Again, high achieving women, right? We have such high capacity. Mm-hmm. And as I have even shared this journey with those closest to me, it's been shocking for most of them to learn- Mm-hmm ... of the struggle that I am starting to verbalize- Right

that I have felt for many, many years, but just figured this must just be the way it is, and I just have to overcome, and I need to fight my way through. Mm. Now, again, thankfully with the gift of the Holy Spirit, I mean, I've been walking with the Lord for 30, nearly 31 years- Mm-hmm. Wonderful ... and He's led me into all truth.

He has allowed me to experience true overcoming so that my new nature aligns with what's possible in the word of God. I mean, I think about, you were talking about the rejection disorder- Mm-hmm ... and I can just, even now, I still struggle with rejection, 

[00:24:00] but I also see how because of His Spirit in me, I've been able to accept the realities of scripture that say, "Woe to you when all men think well of you."

Mm-hmm. You know, eluding to the reality that if you stand for everything, you really stand for nothing. Mm-hmm. But if you're standing for truth, many times there are gonna be people who don't accept you. Right. And those are principles that are biblical, and so as a Christian, it's interesting how this intersects with people of faith because we have these realities in the natural realm, but we also have the realities in the spiritual realm, and it's possible to continue to evolve and grow and have His nature replace our nature.

And so I want to continue to give hope to the listeners that there's going to be tactical, practical things we can do to minimize the impact of ADHD and the symptoms, 

[00:25:00] and also we have the Holy Spirit who can also help us completely be delivered, completely overcome, and have a whole new nature in us.

We can be transformed by the renewing of our mind, and that doesn't involve just new thoughts. Mm-hmm. There are physiological changes that can happen in the brain as it's being rewired. So, so exciting when I think about it.  One of the most important things that I did through my journey was taking time every single morning to sit, to be in scripture, to do Bible study, to be in prayer and worship, because it literally set my day up for me in such a way where I entered it really calmly.

I felt clear-headed, and I know the days that I miss that opportunity are days that 

[00:26:00] I really do seem to struggle more. Yeah, same. And so I would, you know, all of your listeners lean into that time. And if you don't have it, make the time, because it really does transform how your day is gonna be. 

I agree with that. So we talk about ADHD not being a behavior issue, as it's often misunderstood to be- Right ... but it's actually a brain-based difference. Are you able to speak to that in more detail? What does that mean? Well, there is a different, I call it a different wiring of the brain.

We talked a little bit about the difference with, how much dopamine we have, and right now the other two that are incredibly important are escaping me. But What's happening in our frontal lobe and then the transition and the communication to the back of our brain is set up differently than somebody who does not have ADHD, which increases these struggles, 

[00:27:00] in such a way that, folks without ADHD don't experience.

And it's very difficult for them to understand what that feels like, what that looks like for somebody with ADHD. That's amazing. When you spoke of when you first realized the diagnosis for you, there was a sort of that moment of grief. Mm-hmm. again, I don't have an actual diagnosis, but as I have opened my heart to the possibility that my brain is wired differently, I literally experienced that moment of sadness 

I fought the shame because I was like, "You know what? I've been so delivered in perfectionism from shame that all shame- Mm ... is not the Lord." And- Right ... I wasn't going to allow that to attach. I wasn't gonna make agreement with that. But I certainly had a moment of sadness. Like, wow, for all the years of the struggles and not having

[00:28:00] language to put to this or not having- Mm more understanding where I could have been gracious to myself more or kinder to myself because- Right ... I don't know about you, but a lot of times perfectionists will suffer with self-hatred- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... and self-condemnation and self-shaming. Yeah. Because again, we're in that cycle of I should do more, I should do better, I shouldn't have done.

The should shame storm. Right. Yeah. So y- yeah, it's all just so interesting to me how this all- is unfolding. Uh-huh. But I feel such a compassion and a grace and a desire now to be even more kind to myself than I've ever been. Yes. And that is one of the most important things is kindness to yourself, and it sounds so simple- Right

but it is one of the hardest things for us to do because we have that internal dialogue that's been happening. 

[00:29:00] We have environmental inputs that have changed the narrative. And, you said it so beautifully, when I talk about that grief that I went through, it wasn't, "Oh, poor me, I have ADHD."

It was, "I have suffered so long, and this could have been different for me." Right. "This could have been... There could have been an intervention, much earlier," and that's really where that grief is. So yeah, that dialogue that we have with ourselves of, "You're not enough. You can do more. Why can't you just..."

Again, we're getting that from ourselves, and we're getting- Yeah ... it from those environmental inputs, those other folks that have ideas about how we should be managing things. So, giving yourself grace, is so important. Absolutely. So for the listeners, I had sent Cassy some questions in advance, and one of them was, what does ADHD actually look like internally- Mm-hmm

[00:30:00] versus what people see? And I think this is so powerful. Here's what Cassy wrote for what's going on internally. Constant mental noise or multiple thoughts competing at once. Mm. So these symptoms are what I read earlier, right? Knowing exactly what needs to be done but feeling stuck starting.

Time feeling abstract or slipping away without awareness. Strong emotional reactions that rise quickly and feel hard to regulate. Mm-hmm. High effort required for tasks that seem simple to others. Cycling between hyperfocus and complete inability to focus. Persistent self-criticism or feeling behind, and mental fatigue from trying to keep everything organized and remembered.

That's exhausting. And then here's... It's exhausting, right? And then here's what others see. So this is the external presentation. Others see procrastination or delayed task completion, 

[00:31:00] missed deadlines or last-minute work patterns, forgetfulness, disorganization in workspace, schedule, or materials, inconsistent performance- Appearing distracted, disengaged, or not listening, and interrupting or talking impulsively.

Mm-hmm. And then starting multiple things without finishing. So internally, the effort is high, intention is strong. Externally, it can look like lack of effort, care, or reliability. Right. I just thought, wow, that is so powerful. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, and it’s painful. really, when you think about it, when you know you are trying, you are committed, 

You’re trying to do, you want to do the things, and yet your body is not cooperating. It's not getting up. It's not working with you, and that's where it's so important to start, finding those rhythms and 

[00:32:00] how it works with you and not, causing that friction. And procrastination is often one that gets picked up, and a lot of times it's brought up.

And one of the things that I do is I realized that motivation doesn't just come. I literally have to make it come, and the only way to make it come is to physically move. Right. Um, and so that's something I have implemented in my life, where I could be, let's say, sitting there, enjoying my really comfortable chair and thinking, "You've, you've got so much to do.

Just get up and do it. Just get up and do it," and the list is long. You’re thinking about all these things, and I will commit to literally just standing up. It's that simple. I'll take something, and I'll break it down into micro steps. Yes. Um, and you can do that across a lot of different things, not just getting up to, you know, say, do the dishes.

[00:33:00] But you can do it with, work. You can do it in even in your relationships, just taking the most micro step possible, and then it'll be a kind of a chain reaction. Now, we may get a little distracted and start the dishes, water the plant, clean the toilet kind of thing , but, you know-

it's gonna get done. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and what's so interesting is being a career person like I have been- Mm-hmm ... you, of course, see these, assessments, these personality assessments. Mm-hmm. And I... Three times I've taken the- Gallup organizations, one called Strength Finders- Uh-huh ... and Woo is my top one every time, which stands for winning others over.

Oh. But the elements of that one mean that I'm the person you put at the front door of a party to welcome everyone who comes in, and then I work the room. And I don't know a stranger, and I am traveling 

[00:34:00] all over the place, but I always end up back to where I'm supposed to be. And I laugh because if you put me on an assignment, I can be managing five assignments, eventually they all get done.

If I go into a room to do my laundry, and then I... Yeah, and then to your point, I may see something that requires an energy- Yeah ... so I give attention to that thing, which puts me in a different room, and then I see something in that room which makes me do a different task. Mm-hmm. It seems scattered, but it's my rhythm that works for me.

Mm-hmm. Right. And it's cool because again, what I might have labeled as a malfunction, Strengths Finder says, "No, this is a strength of yours. It's just about making sure you learn how to navigate it." So it's been fun, doing that and just accepting that that's how I do it.

Yeah. But to your point, so when I spoke earlier of the Holy Spirit has guided me through life, teaching me how to navigate these symptoms, if you will- 

[00:35:00] Mm-hmm ... that's the same approach He gave me. I started realizing that in order for anything to get done, I have to make a decision, and I have to do just- Mm-hmm the next thing. Just the next thing. 

I used to be a personal trainer, and one of the things I told my clients is, "Listen, you're never... Rarely are you gonna feel like working out." I have more clients than not who don't want to work out, but they want the results of working out, and so they're going to have to work out.

Mm-hmm. And so for some of them, I would say, "Just get out of bed and stand there." And as soon as they would just get out of bed and stand there, then I would say, "Next, just put on the workout clothes, but tell yourself it's okay to not work out." Mm-hmm. Yeah. And they put on their workout clothes, and the brain literally kicked in and said, "We're gonna do this."

And then all of a sudden they had the energy to go do it. 

[00:36:00] S- exactly right, and that's, that's to, you know, exactly what I was describing. It really is interesting how that happens. Yes. I agree. I agree. And the other thing, I learned this in particular when I felt like the Lord called me to write my book- Mm-hmm

and I was learning from people who had gone before me, and they said, you're rarely gonna feel like writing, so if you wait until you feel like doing it, it'll never get done." Right. So, we set a goal of 250 words a day. And I would find myself completely overwhelmed before sitting down to write.

Mm-hmm. The task was just overwhelming. But I finally started saying, "Let me just sit in front of the computer. Let me just sit there in front of the blank page." And when I gave energy to doing the thing instead of thinking about the thing- Mm, that's right ... it took the pain of the overwhelm and completely minimized it.

[00:37:00] Yeah. And I sat in front of the white page, and then I just paused and I listened and I prayed, and I waited for did any kind of thought come present itself or idea, and sure enough, it would, and I would just start typing or writing or whatever. Mm-hmm. And before you know it, I didn't just have 250 words, I had 500 words or 1,000 words.

Went into that focus mode, yeah. It's just amazing. and I tell people a lot if you actually go do the thing, I don't mean do the whole thing- Mm-hmm ... but do just a step toward that thing that you know you need to do and want to do- Right ... you literally will completely abolish the overwhelm that you're feeling in that moment.

Yeah. I just- And that's- I was amazed ... that's absolute sound advice. And one of the things as you were describing that, 

[00:38:00] I thought just one sentence, Lenee’. Don't look at 250 words. Just one sentence. And it becomes so fluid. It just starts pouring out. And what I would also make sure people are doing is giving themselves permission.

If you sit in front of that computer and you are doing that one sentence and you get stuck, get up. Physically move. Walk into another room, get a drink of water, come back, and start the process again. Um- Ah, love that ... it'll make a huge difference. I love that. And I think this also speaks to those who've struggled with perfectionism because- Mm-hmm

for whatever reason, perfectionism wants to know all the answers. I remember when the Lord called me to write my book, I panicked because I didn't know how and I didn't know what it was supposed to look like, and He kept telling me, "Just sit down and write without any expectation of the end product."

[00:39:00] Yeah. That was very hard, but then again- I learned how to navigate that and I let the story unfold. So every day as I put forth just the next sentence, to your point, within 10 months I had a book in hand. It's amazing. and the Lord was allowed to lead me through that process, and I learned I didn't have to have all the answers up front, right?

That wouldn't be faith, just wouldn't be faith. So let's talk a little bit about perfectionism. That certainly is a symptom. How has that, in your experience, intersected with ADHD? What has that looked like? So perfectionism and ADHD often go hand in hand, especially when we're talking about the, the high-achieving women.

And we talked a little bit about the external inputs that we get, the feedback that we get. That really contributes to the sense that, you are trying to compensate 

[00:40:00] or overcompensate for any kind of mistakes that you've made or not showing up in a way that, that you or somebody else, deemed as the right way.

Perfectionism can be an avoidance technique because it starts getting into risk, right? Yeah. Risk being I f- I'm scared I'm gonna fail, or I'm scared I'm gonna be judged, or I'm gonna be seen as unreliable. And when we're talking, about high-achieving women, there's this whole other issue of we can't show up in a particular way out in the corporate world- Yes

because we'll be seen as weak or we'll be... So you add that into it, and it becomes just a recipe for leaning into perfectionism. And of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting to excel and do well and have, good product and service that you're putting out. 

[00:41:00] Where it becomes a problem is when you become overwhelmed with it- Yeah

when you become self-deprecating, in all of these different ways that we become really critical of ourselves. Yeah ... that's when I see perfectionism as a very concerning thing that's happening. Yeah ... and I think that there is... we hear people all the time, "Oh, I'm a perfectionist."

Uh, yes, there, you know, there's a lot of people out there that want things just right who don't have ADHD, hence the work that, that you do. But, when you have ADHD and you have all of those sensitivities and some of those other things that we've talked about coming into play, it really can amplify.

Yeah. So 100%. Yeah, I try to, with the audience at times in different episodes talk about this line between excellence and having a high standard for quality, which is a good thing. Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:00] When the motive, though, is coming from this place of I have to perform to a particular standard in order to be loved or accepted- Yes

and my worth is based on the outcomes and the level at which I can perform, we've now crossed a line into perfectionism, into something that's not healthy or, biblically aligned with- Right ... God's view of us- Yes ... and our worth. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So one of the categories, topics, I'm not sure what to call it, I've learned from you in taking, a free course of yours, you mentioned something called executive functioning.

Yes. What is that? So executive functioning, if you think about it being the, the computer of your brain. It really focuses on areas such as, impulse control. it is, going to support your time management.

[00:43:00] It's going to support, things around procrastination. A lot of the different symptoms that you're, running into come from challenges related to your executive functioning. So it's gonna be, your memory, your organizational skills. Things like that are part of your executive functioning, and in ADHD, those are disrupted.

That's where we have a lot of the struggles. And from the list of executive functioning, areas, that's where the bulk of our, not only our challenges, but our celebrations can come from, which I think, we can talk a little bit more about the celebrations, later on. For sure.

Yeah. So then, one of the questions I had asked you is what are executive functioning challenges and how do they show up in everyday life? 

[00:44:00] Do you wanna talk a little bit about that? Yeah. So, going through them, it's planning and prioritizing. So that is the process of figuring out what needs to be done and in what order it needs to be done 

This is potentially a significant challenge for individuals with ADHD. We have... and we talk a little bit about competing priorities. What do you do? It feels like everything is a competing priority. How do you sort that? And that can be a real struggle. Right. working memory. So it's funny in some ways because, some of us with ADHD can literally remember minute details from the most unimportant thing from years and years and years ago, but we can't remember what somebody told us this morning that we needed to take care of.

So it can be really challenging. we get that, kind of distraction 

[00:45:00] happening. Another one is task initiation, which we've talked a lot about. That's just that getting started. And again, going back to, just getting up and physically moving without commitment, and I say that in, in all of the love that I have, and that is, don't tell yourself you're going to get up and you're gonna go to the gym is a great example.

You're gonna work out for 45 minutes just like- Right ... you described. Just get up. And then once you do that, take the next step, and we'll see how it goes. Right. Staying focused is a challenge, at times. I heard you, bring up, hyperfocus. Hyperfocus is the flip side, of course, of not being able to focus.

I heard a gentleman, an ADHD coach, talking about hyperfocus, and he put it in such a way... you hear a lot of people say, "Oh, it's my superpower" and things like that. While it's good to find those things and celebrate, one of the ways he described it was basically forced focus against your will.

[00:46:00] And- Hmm ... forgetting to eat, to go to the bathroom, to hear what anybody else is saying to you, that's not fun. That's- Wow ... something that can be really difficult. But I know that you had talked about staying focused, especially on non-preferred tasks, and for me, that's huge.

Mm-hmm. I only need to look back and go, "Oh, okay." Yeah. So administrative tasks for me are incredibly overwhelming. Yep. But- If it's boring, we don't wanna do it. And I mean, I know that a lot of people r- that don't have ADHD don't wanna do a boring task- Right, right ... but they can get themselves to do that.

Right. We, really are- It's amplified ... yes, exactly ... like you said, you said. And I realize this is another area of my life where I thank God for how He has navigated me through this 

[00:47:00] because- Mm-hmm ... um, my career, several assignments He's given me through life required, both an administrative piece and then the fun things.

And for me to walk in the integrity that I wanna walk in, I was going to have to do the administrative things. And so that's another area where I had to force myself to do just the next thing, and just the next thing again, and just the next thing again. What I've noticed is the tasks are still not fun for me, and I still have to at times force myself to sit down and do the thing.

Mm-hmm. But I can tell you the overwhelm isn't what it used to be. Because you do a task enough times, you learn- the system. You learn the task. And so it's not nearly as overwhelming- Right ... to your- Kind of go on a- autopilot. Yeah. I mean, everything from I had to 

[00:48:00] build an entire tracking system, computer system inside our tracking platform at work.

Mm-hmm. Uh, anything operational, anything where you create a system for something, all of that used to completely overwhelm me. Mm-hmm. And now I've done it enough that I'm like, "Oh, I, I know where to begin. I can do this. I..." And I've done it enough to see the reality that with God I can do all things. Mm-hmm.

I can do all things through Him. Mm-hmm. Doesn't mean that's gonna be a natural gift of mine. It doesn't mean I'm gonna get all excited about it. It's not what I love, but it is possible to grow through it. And I think that's just, again, so important. Because we can also get ... easily just say, "Well, I'm not wired that way," or "I don't feel like doing that," or, "That doesn't bring me passion."

And so we might avoid an assignment altogether when God might be calling us to something 

[00:49:00] and stretching us and wanting to build our capacity. And so it's really important to maybe think about it from that perspective and not be afraid to face it head-on and just do the next thing. Right. Yeah. And a tactic is depending on your, your personality, something, for example, y- those tasks that you're dreading, gamify it.

Find a way to- Mm ... make it fun or have some sort of reward center that can get that dopamine releasing that'll help you with that. And one of the things that I do, particularly, like I thrive in the morning, I'm doing great in the morning. You start hitting around noon, 1:00, and then it feels like it can just really go downhill from there in terms of my energy, my focus.

And so I started baking in midday. You take a little bit of a lunch break, but instead of spending your time going off to a restaurant or something like that, I choose to eat at home, 

[00:50:00] and then I have time to get back into my spiritual connection- Yep ... get grounded. And that way I can address that, that afternoon challenge, especially if I've got important things that I need to get taken care of that I couldn't do in the morning.

Yeah ... yeah, so it's- That, that is a strategy, isn't it? Like, know yourself well enough to know what fuels you and what doesn't- Right ... what's essential, and then when do... are you at your best? I'm at my best in the morning- Mm-hmm ... so like you I try to make sure I schedule activities when I know I'm gonna be stronger, especially if they're- Right

activities I don't love. And then to your point, maybe midday, okay, let me do something that's gonna re-energize me. What's gonna make me feel really good right now? Yes. And I don't mean- And that's what you're talking about ... I don't mean go eat a pint of ice cream. I'm not saying that.

Something healthy. But for me it... Right. It might be a 20-minute walk, or it might be that I call- Mm ... a friend and I love on her for- Mm-hmm ... 

[00:51:00] a moment, because I love encouraging people. Or it might be that I go pray or get in the Word or whatever those activities are. Find a way to break up the day and midday reset if you have to.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And it really does refresh you in such a way that you can focus on those- bigger tasks. Yeah. but what you're describing is working with your brain. You know that you are, more successful in the morning, more energized, more focused, whatever it is- Right

where you say, "I'm going to design my day to my energy." Right. And then the other thing might be a little controversial, but I've recently been hearing a lot, energy is a choice, it's a choice, it's a choice. And I got to thinking about that, and I thought maybe they're onto something here. Maybe energy is a choice.

And, you talked earlier about having to make a decision, and 

[00:52:00] it might be something like that where we say, "Okay, I feel that's winding down. My decision, my choice is to find that energy through, X means going for that walk or that phone call." Right. Yeah. And I don't think it's a cookie cutter approach, right?

I think that there- Yeah ... could be different reasons why somebody lacks energy. It could be physical, it could be emotional- Sure ... it could be spiritual. So I think that's part of wrestling through life with the Lord- Yeah ... is sometimes I'll ask the Lord, "Is what I'm experiencing, physical, natural?"

Mm-hmm. "Or is this a spiritual thing?" yeah. So back to, we were going through the executive functioning, challenges you had stopped on the sustained attention, staying focused one- Yeah ... 'cause that was a good, little rabbit trail to go down. The next one was emotional regulation.

You wanna keep going with those? Yeah. So emotional regulation, and impulse control really go 

[00:53:00] hand-in-hand. So, there are going to be times that we are going to spike one way or the other. Maybe we have a, a moment of feeling hyper in such a way it doesn't necessarily have to be physical.

It can be, through words, it can be through what's happening in our minds, that we're not necessarily sharing externally. And impulse control can look a lot of different ways. For me, I noticed the strongest area that I had with controlling impulse was around things like spending money.

So impulse control can cause a lot of heartache in your life if you don't have some ways to pause and get yourself back in line. And that's just one example. occasionally those, blurting it out, interrupting, and it's not because somebody is rude, it's because they literally have something that hits their brain, they've gotta get it out, and it all happens really without conscious thought.

[00:54:00] Those two kind of go hand-in-hand. The next one, what I refer to as intentional task switching or shifting, and that is the ability to go from one thing to the other with intention. We oftentimes we do have the we start this and then I call it the choo-choo train of thought, so we go to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing.

That's not necessarily what I mean here. What I'm talking about is I have one thing I need to do, something else comes up that either needs that attention right now for whatever reason, being able to switch to that and then switch back can be really difficult. And then organizing and managing our time, the things around us.

So that could look like clutter in your home, or a messy desk, not that I know that from experience or anything. but it can also be managing, around, calendars, 

[00:55:00] appointments, frequently being, late to things or having the wrong, dates for your doctor's appointments and things like that really comes down to that management.

And all of these go across your professional life. They're happening at home, in your partnerships, in your other relationships. And it can also lead to a lot of questioning of, is there something I'm missing? Oh, I feel like there's something I really need to do, and I can't for the life of me recall what that is.

Mm-hmm. Maybe there is something, maybe there isn't. But that can be really exhausting. And when we have this much cognitive load happening, it does become physically exhausting. You know- Mm-hmm ... you could have a day where you didn't do much, if you will, but your brain has gone nonstop, and at the end of the day you think, "I am so tired.

I'm so worn out." Yeah. And you're thinking, "Well, why? 

[00:56:00] I didn't do anything today." Well, your brain has been in overdrive- Right ... causing all sorts of issues and, uh- Right ... yeah. Yeah. The number of times that I have said to my friends, "You know what? I just don't have any mental real estate left today."

Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's the way that I would describe it. Yeah. recently I learned of a very simple tactic, to calm down my nervous system. So again- Mm-hmm ... I didn't have language for these things. So I didn't really understand that with my brain being on so much, it's really triggered my nervous system to just constantly be in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn mode, right?

and I'm typically more of a fight. Mm-hmm. And so I'm just... I'm a doer, and I go, and I'm responsive and things of that nature. So I learned, and I forget where I heard it, but it was like, oh, if you inhale longer- if you exhale longer than you inhale, your brain will just go, "Oh, okay, I'm safe now," and will calm down.

[00:57:00] Mm-hmm. And I thought, "Ugh, let me try it," right? So, I literally did this little exercise, and Cassy, I could not believe how immediate. I can even feel when the calmness kicked in and the fight or flight, freaking out, hyperactivity of my brain just turned off. It calmed down. I could breathe. I was able to live in the present, and I was like, "Wait a minute.

This is actually real." Matter of fact, I even used it in one of my... The- the last episode or the one before that, I had my listeners do that very thing. Yeah. And now I do it at night. Now I do it when I find myself panicking or getting emotionally stirred up or- Yeah ... 'cause I would wake up every morning, and I would just be in go mode, and my brain would just be running before my body even got out of bed.

And- Mm-hmm ... I got so tired of that. 

[00:58:00] I'm like, "Lord, you've gotta help me calm down," and that was the same time that I learned this technique. So I'm so excited about that. But let's talk about different tactics that you have used with your clientele that have worked for people in different scenarios.

Well, you bring up a really good point, and that is breathwork. I'm a huge fan of breathwork. I do a lot of somatic work with individuals. I went through, um... Because I found it in my own life to be incredibly beneficial, I wanted to go ahead and get a certification in somatic coaching, and so I worked on that this last year.

And so I bring a lot of those techniques into a coaching session, and it... and it doesn't matter if it's an individual or a group coaching session. There are a number of activities that we would, employ, through that process all around getting grounded- 

[00:59:00] Connecting with our bodies, connecting with that breath.

And your technique of breathing in and then exhaling longer is a great example. And there's, you've probably heard of, like, box breathing. You can take box breathing, which is equal parts inhale, hold, exhale, kind of thing, and you can extend that, just like you said.

Breathe in, hold it for a count, or f- you know, a certain number of counts depending on what you've agreed to with yourself, and then really exhale slowly for a longer count. Do that a few times and you're gonna find yourself really settling in and getting more grounded. But there are a variety of techniques that I bring into, coaching sessions.

One of them is my favorites is called pendulation, that I work with clients on, and that really gets them not only grounded, but gets them focused in on, where in my body am I 

[01:00:00] feeling this particular thing that I'm feeling? Whatever it is that's coming up for them, and then how do I connect back with, relieving that.

Yeah, I've got all sorts of tips and tricks that I, use with clients for, Yeah ... managing this. It's really working, like you said, with your nervous system. Absolutely. So it's designing how you approach your tasks based on how your brain actually activates. Mm-hmm. This is what you said in, again, the pre-questions I asked you, rather than how you think you should work.

You said it often looks like lowering the pressure to start, breaking things into very small steps, adding interest or urgency, like a timer or music or working alongside someone, and paying attention to your energy and emotional state. Instead of forcing yourself through resistance, you create conditions that help your brain feel safe, engaged, and able to begin.

So- Mm-hmm ... it might look different for everybody. Absolutely. So you say here, instead of telling yourself to clean the house, you set a 10-minute timer 

[01:01:00] and just start with one surface. Yep. You might play music or a podcast to create momentum and stop when the timer ends rather than pushing to exhaustion.

Yes. And that is key, is recognizing, “how good is good enough?” And I love using that, and people freak out about good enough because that feels like C-level work. It's not. it's going to be B, A, kind of level work- A minus, B minus A... Exactly. Yeah. It's going to be good, but setting some intentions in the beginning of what is complete, what does complete look like, what does good enough look like, and actually working to, to that point, not to the A-plus plus plus that we start getting into- Yeah with perfectionism. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How can somebody build follow through without shame? 

[01:02:00] Oh, this is one of my favorite topics. It often takes, quite frankly, a lot of work, coaching, and other things to get to the point that somebody is able to do that. But again, it sounds so simple, but the two things I say are kindness and grace to yourself, and it takes a lot of work for most people that I am working with to get there because they've had a lifetime of being hard on themselves and other people being hard on them for certain things.

So I always wanna connect with clients and get them to, Or I shouldn't say get them…they're getting themselves there. I'm just simply walking alongside them to reach a point where they can give themselves that grace, love, and kindness. Yeah. And I so appreciate this because if I combine all of this with my faith journey, one of the things you often would hear me say is that I knew God as the Lion, but I didn't know him as the Lamb.

[01:03:00] Mm-hmm. So when he began to show up with his tender, compassionate side that was showing me grace, I thought it was a counterfeit. And my whole life was built on fear of punishment and- Mm ... thinking that the Lord was being so hard on me. So that was mixed into all of this and amplified all this even more.

Yeah. Yeah. And now I just have this incredible, excitement that He is not condemning me. Perfect love, like it says in 1 John 4:18, "Perfect love casts out fear." I mean, there's a healthy fear of the Lord, a healthy respect for His ways, but there's a perfect love that brought and continues to bring me security in Him.

And the more I am secure in my identity in Him, the more that I know His love for me, the more I can get 

[01:04:00] through things and give myself grace and not show myself shame the way that I used to. Yeah. And you have here, instead of asking, "Why can't I do this?" Right, which carries a condemning tone to it, the focus becomes, "What would help my brain do this more easily?"

Right. I still gotta do it. Yep. I still gotta do it. How do I reduce the friction is really- Yeah ... what that boils down to. Right. And sometimes it's a system that you're putting into place. Sometimes it's knocking a system out. Yeah ... because if, for example, I sometimes would go into this, "I've gotta get organized," and I would create a system, and the system was so ridiculously complicated, there was no way I could maintain it.

Got it. You know? So finding what works for you. And it may not look like what everyone else has or what you have had this perception of what should be. 

[01:05:00] My filing system is a perfect example. I don't know that anybody could figure it out, but it's very clear to me and it works. Right. So that's, that's what I've decided to you know, to do.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you talk a little bit about a realistic structure. So structure- Mm-hmm ... is probably a good thing for neurodivergent Believers. I know structure's been a gift to me for recovering from perfectionism. But what does realistic structure look like for a neurodivergent believer?

 So it's gonna vary, of course, person to person. 

One of the things that I think is important to point out is most of us with ADHD do not like structure. We like flexibility. We want to be able to make decisions on the fly about how things are gonna be.

However, while we rail against that structure, we absolutely thrive in it. Once you find a structure that does work for you, you're likely 

[01:06:00] going to start seeing some successes come out of that. For me, structure is what I talked about. I decided I'm gonna rise early in the morning.

I'm gonna spend time in scripture and prayer. I'm gonna take it easy. I'm gonna outline then what my day looks like. I'm gonna compare that to calendars and make sure everything's aligned. I set intention. If I can only do one thing today, what is that thing that must- Right ... be done? I- Really, for me, I cannot function in mess.

My home has to be really clean. Now, if you were to open a drawer, it's not organized. But I like to have clean spaces and know that I can rest when I need to rest, and that I'm not going to be, getting distracted. Just simple little things like that can create some structure.

The other thing I think is really important, particularly if you are 

[01:07:00] married, or have, other people in your home, is to make sure that you're communicating what needs you have, areas that you need them to respect, to recognize. I think it's also really important to not feel like you have to be the one all the time to do the education for your families, because that can put a big burden on you.

And I bring this up in the structure conversation is because these folks that are living with you, if it's your kids or, a parent or your spouse, they can help you make or break structure and make it really challenging. So it's important to have those conversations with them.

And then what I've done in my home is say, "Hey, I need you to understand this, and I don't think it's fair for me to have to be the one to constantly explain. Here are some resources. Please, you know- Yeah ... educate yourself." And it 

[01:08:00] really does make a difference. I agree. I... Again, learning yourself, learning your connection with God, what helps you stay connected.

So for me, I do thrive in structure. Mm-hmm. But if I get too rigid with it, I've now fallen out of grace and back into law, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. So I think a perfectionist needs to remember we can easily fall into the counterfeit gospel- Mm ... which means we're trying to justify ourselves by our works.

Mm-hmm. And we can get so rigid with all of that. So unfortunately, it's not gonna be the same answer for everyone. That's why we all have to have our own individual relationship with the Lord and learn His voice And it's a journey. It's a personal relationship, and it's a personal journey.

And the goal isn't to perform or get it right, like you say, but to create those rhythms that- Mm-hmm ... work for you and keep the relationship steady, Yeah ... as what you said there. 

[01:09:00] We could keep talking about all that, but I do wanna get into, as we start to, to wind down a little bit, celebrations. So- Yeah, mm-hmm

I asked the question, how does understanding ADHD change someone's identity story? What would you say to that? That’s a difficult question, because I think, it's going to be, again, individual for everyone. I can speak to myself, and that was I went from, "Oh, my goodness. What is this?

Oh, how I've suffered," to all of a sudden seeing some of the beauty in how my brain works, and being able to celebrate that.  And one of the things that's, pretty significant with those of us with ADHD is we can be really creative, 

[01:10:00] and that doesn't necessarily mean, in the artistic form.

For me, it's definitely not that. But it's in seeing things in a way that maybe other people can't put together in their brain. So good ... a really good example, years ago I used to work in law enforcement, and I had cases that had a lot of complexity to them, particularly around, like, who is who and how are they connected.

And I remember having a conversation with a detective and saying, "Oh, well, this is so-and-so, and they're married to so-and-so, and they have a relationship here, and this is the kids, and, uncle, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And he was just staring at me, and he said, "I don't know how you just did that so fast, that you put this all together."

I didn't know it at the time, but looking back I think that was the uniqueness of my brain and being able to look- Yeah ... at puzzles and put them together very quickly. 

[01:11:00] It's thinking outside the box. And so that is something that I like to celebrate, is that we often are very creative in, in those ways.

I think another way, because we feel so deeply, we can be ultra-compassionate to others, which I think is just incredibly beautiful. The important part of that, though, is not to internalize it so much that then, you're making yourself sick, Yeah ... over things. It's, having some of those boundaries in place, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that was just... Uh, that was another thing. You, you speak of language. Even just tweaking our language tells our brain to respond differently. So- Yeah ... to say I'm a redeemed perfectionist helps me realize that Perfectionism was the old nature, and I- Yes ... I struggled, and may sometimes still struggle with it- Sure but I'm not defined by it, right? And so, instead of I am ADHD, you can 

[01:12:00] replace it with I have or I struggle with- Yes ... ADHD. So yeah, just in- Exactly ... just in certain language changes, it can matter a lot. 

What would you say to a woman who loves God deeply but feels like she keeps failing Him?

This one is...

It's so, eh, personal for me because there have been times that I have felt like I am just... I'm not measuring up. I'm not doing the right things. What I would say is that's not the way that God sees it and that He loves her, and He just wants you to seek Him, and to come back to Him all the time with these troubles, with these feelings. And you're not failing Him. We obviously, we've talked a lot about the differences in the brain. 

[01:13:00] You were made that way, and it's okay. This is all part of a plan. And that God absolutely meets you where you are. He does not expect perfection. He does not expect performance. He expects relationship.

And so, definitely, I would work with her to understand where these thoughts are coming from and how she might look at those moving forward in a different way. I remember when my best friend and I were praying together and she had a vision over me and she said, "I see a measuring stick." Mm.

And she said, "I see you using the measuring stick to measure all of your imperfections and where you're not getting things perfect." But she said, "I see the Lord measuring your progress." Mm. It was kind of like when a parent or an adult puts their child up against the door frame- Uh-huh ... and measures how much they've grown.

[01:14:00] Yeah. And that was the heart of God. And- I was just under a spirit of condemnation. And so, I mean, I think that's just so important that God does meet, as you've said God meets people in their humanity, not their perfection. Mm-hmm. He's patient, compassionate, and near, not keeping score of how well she performs.

Mm-hmm. Her relationship with him is not built on flawless discipline, but on connection, grace, and returning again and again- Mm-hmm ... just as she is. Right. So, so good. And so what would you say thriving, not just coping, actually looks like? 

Well, we've talked a little bit about that, but that is making sure that you do create those systems that support you and find other supports.

That could be in the form of your faith. That's in the form of friends and family members that can support you. Mm-hmm. again, really taking a moment to 

[01:15:00] invest in yourself and do some of the research, so you can understand different coping mechanisms. Obviously I'm a huge fan of coaching, leaning into coaching, to get that additional support.

And not everything is going to be perfect, but how good is good enough is one of my favorite things to say. Yeah. And that really is a question that I do ask, and it's a hard one to answer. Yeah. especially- You might have to- ... for a perfectionist ... right. I always say in the beginning I had to ask other people's opinions who I loved and trusted and I knew were Spirit-led.

I didn't trust myself yet Mm-hmm. and so I would ask others to help me, and then- Yeah ... follow their advice. What are maybe a couple things you would share with the listener places they can start this week? If any of this has resonated, what are some steps they can take next, Cassy?

Well, I would love to connect with anyone. 

[01:16:00] I... Of course, you're gonna share the website. That's something. And I can be found, of course, on, Facebook, Instagram.

But going beyond that, there are some resources, that folks can look into. There’s different literature. It's pretty easy to get on Google, plug in, it could be, adult- diagnosed with ADHD. That’s something I actually wanna talk just a second about, and that is around- Mm diagnosis because we've talked about, you having an experience where you don't have a diagnosis, but you're calling it into question. 

I do have a diagnosis. That does not matter. If you are going through some of the things that we've talked about, if you're struggling, if you're noticing some of these symptoms, it doesn't matter if you have that diagnosis or not.

You're strong enough to recognize in yourself what these challenges might be and look for ways to navigate them. I work with a number of people 

[01:17:00] who've never been diagnosed as ADHD but self-identify as somebody who likely has it. So that's something I just wanted to share. This is not just for those of us that have received that diagnosis.

Um- Yeah ... other resources out there, one of my favorites is called ADDitude, so A-D-D-itude Magazine. Really phenomenal resource. If you do the online, you can take a number of free classes and webinars. They have amazing articles and checklists. no, I don't work for them. I'm not getting any kickback or anything like that.

I think it's important to mention that. Right. It's just a resource that I personally use and find incredibly valuable. Oh, I love it. 

Folks, I highly recommend Cassy, her group sessions. I know just the couple free classes I took, I learned just so much. And I think what I love is you're learning both theory to understand in a deeper way, but also, 

[01:18:00] practical, tactical steps that can be taken to make progress. And as I continue in a season of finding grace for myself from recovering from perfectionism- Mm-hmm

This has just added a very beautiful layer of understanding for me, and it's increased my ability to be more compassionate to myself. I highly recommend that everybody take a look. If this resonated, definitely take a look and definitely download the episode.

Let us know your feedback. Would love to hear how- Mm ... this episode impacted you. Cassy and I both, I think, thrive probably on feedback. I know I do, so. I do. That's true. I'm always- Yeah ... always wanting to understand if- Yeah ... there was an impact and what that- Yeah ... was and how we can improve, you know- Yeah how we show up always, yeah. 

Any final thoughts, Cassy, before we sign off today? I think my final 

[01:19:00] thought is if you are going through some of the things that we talked about, to please be sure that you're taking care of yourself, that you sit down, you think about, the judgments that you've had about yourself, and release those lovingly and lean into that kindness and grace.

Yeah. Amen. Cassy, many blessings. Thanks for being here. Thanks for doing what God has called you to do and shining your light, and I just love everything that you've done here today. So thanks for being with us. Thank you so much for having me. 

[01:20:00] Well, I officially self-identify as ADHD, but here's what I wanna make really clear. I don't say that as a label that defines me. I say it as language that now helps me understand myself. Because just like perfectionism, this is something that I experience, but it is not who I am. I am still Redeemed, and so are you.

And that means we're not stuck, and we're not disqualified, and we're not behind. It means we're learning how to walk with God in a deeper, more honest way. We're understanding how He created us, how our minds work, and how to partner with Him instead of striving against ourselves. And maybe that's the hope I wanna leave you with today.

[01:21:00] If you f- if you feel overwhelmed, if your mind is so loud, if you've been trying so hard to stay consistent and focused and get it right, and it still feels heavy, it doesn't mean you're failing. You maybe have just been trying to live your life and your faith in a way that doesn't align with how you're designed, and now you're finding out there's another way.

It's a way where you don't have to force yourself into somebody else's rhythm. You get to understand how your brain works while being transformed by the Spirit of God. It's a way where grace doesn't just meet you at salvation but walks with you now every single day. So you're not too much, you're not broken, and you're definitely not a disappointment to God.

[01:22:00] You are somebody who He deeply understands and who He's patient with and who He's walking with right here in the middle of the mess. And just like me, you're not defined by perfectionism or ADHD, but by redemption. And friend, this is just the beginning. This episode is part one of a series, and we're going to go so much deeper from here.

So if this resonated with you, I want to encourage you, stay with me. Because where, because what's coming next is so And if you're sitting there thinking, "This is me. This is exactly what I've been experiencing," I want you to know you're not the only one who's walked this road. It's actually the very journey that led me To write my book, You Will Make Mistakes: Discovering God's [01:23:00] Grace in the Midst of Perfectionism.

I had to learn personally how to break free from striving and self-condemnation and from the belief that I had to get everything right to be loved by God. You can get it on Amazon, or if you want, you can grab the first chapter for free at my website, lanepizzano.com. if you're ready to go deeper in that journey, that's a resource I created with you in mind

i'm going