Spiraling Up — Marketing For Professional Services

LIVE from the 2025 AAM Summit: Pivotal Stories in Accounting Marketing

• Hinge • Season 1 • Episode 8

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Download the 2025 Marketing Budget Benchmark Study Executive Summary: https://accountingmarketing.org/category/surveys-studies-research-and-more/

In this special in-person episode of Spiraling Up, the team attended the 2025 AAM Summit in Phoenix, Arizona. During the event, marketing leaders, practitioners, and industry experts joined the show to share their ‘pivotal stories’ from the event—key learnings, takeaways, and overall impressions. Many common themes bubbled up, like how to build marketing budgets, fostering trust among teams, SEO strategies, and of course, artificial intelligence (AI). Recorded live on the showroom floor, this episode offers a window into one of the accounting industry’s key events.

Joe Pope:

And

Austin McNair:

in

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

today's

Austin McNair:

episode

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

of Spiraling Up,

Austin McNair:

Hey, we are

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

in person together, guys. What's going on?

Joe Pope:

You met me inside on that intro by the way. You, you, you by the

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

way Hundred percent

Austin McNair:

Joe told me to give the best, the best, deepest in. yeah. we had to

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

we're

Austin McNair:

person Guys, what's going on? It's great

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

See you.

Austin McNair:

guys.

Joe Pope:

I'm. amazed that we were able to pull this off. Honestly. Shout out to producer John,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

John

Joe Pope:

Uh, but yeah, no, we've got our backdrop set up. We uh, uh we're here at the Main Summit in Phoenix, Arizona. It's awesome to be here. It's awesome to see you. Yep Coming from a different kind to join us.

Austin McNair:

Yep. Yep. So, main summit, for those that don't know, it's the Association for County Marketing Every year they do a summit somewhere within the United States. Uh, it brings together all the world's leading, uh accounting marketers, accounting business development, sales leaders. They all gather here at this conference Um and Hinge has had a longstanding partnership with the Association for Accounting Marketing um, for over a decade now, as everybody knows Hinge, we do research, um, quite a bit. it's, it's it's it's, within our, It's within DNA and years ago we set up a research partnership with the association. to understand, Um, how are these different companies budgeting for marketing Um, and in our, you know, own special way, we always apply that high growth methodology to the study. So not only are we seeing what other people are doing in their marketing budgets we're also seeing what the fastest growing companies are doing with their marketing budgets And so this year we've been great. Um, we had one of our team members will casserly give a keynote speech um here on on the results Um and it super well received So Deep. Great marketing partnership with, with aim and yeah, I mean I mean all that is great, but like we said, even better, be we're together in person. Mayor Blanc, how are you? This is your first summit.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

It is as well as mine.

Austin McNair:

But I'm interested, what have you, uh how have you enjoyed the conference so far? Has there, you know, what has been a highlight for you so far

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Sure, yeah. I mean, the energy here, I just, the comradery uh you can tell that everyone here that they come every year that this is a a time for a genuine connection Um and, uh, I mean, for me too, I, we were talking earlier about some of the other partnerships that Hinge is involved with and uh some of those organizations and conferences that I I go to outside of uh the ames Summit but um The speakers this year I have been so impressed Um and I'm I'm really excited about some of the the takeaways from from some of those sessions and being able to take that back to the team at Hinge

Austin McNair:

We'll come back to that Yeah because that that will be kind of what this episode is about

Joe Pope:

For shadow

Austin McNair:

we're gonna be bringing in a hashtag for shadow people and attendees um, who are here at the conference with us These are marketing leaders um CMOs and we're gonna be asking em what is their biblical story from the conference So stick around and watch that with us Joe, I'm curious, so you've been to this conference a few times. How have you seen the conference change over the years? What, what's standing out to you this year?

Joe Pope:

Yeah. Aim has gone through a a revolution in a sense on how they structure this conference to best fit the needs of those that attended. I mean, they have a significant commitment to accomplishing the goal of listening to people's feedback. I mean, after, this is my for thing show here. you I've listened to Build Mentioned earlier he he's gotten Talk Few, few of these. Another one of our partners. Liz Har was able to speak last year on the fiscal expert revolution available on on Amazon and anywhere else I, think I Amazon, right? yeah. Uh, but yeah, no, I mean, AIM has really also put effort into how they treat their partners as well. So we're sitting in the main hall directly across from where everybody's actually attending most of these sessions. So many great conversations. Uh Uh, so many great moments for you. Yeah man, Because how many people have walked up to you and made the connection knowing how long you've been spending time going through Um through these webinars, aim, these Different partnerships, initiatives, and now, hey, look man, you're here in person.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Low key and aim Celebrity Like celebrity status

Austin McNair:

Stop Guys Stop Say more Say more say more No Um guys this is probably one of my number one takeaways so just You know we're all marketing people here talking to to marketing folks on the call Um, think about this from the perspective of us as a market marketing agency marketing our own business right We've made this longstanding convention into this relationship with an association Um, we have done this research report which we we do for them for them right and And in return we receive some visibility with the association So that means we You know webinars um Webinar, You know, uh access to the member directory a whole bunch of little benefits Right right The the summit is the big one right Yeah. But I've never been to the summit but I've been a part of a lot of the webinars I've been a lot of part of the you know digital marketing I'm the one that is bothering people every two years to fill out the budget survey which is pretty much the hardest survey ever to fill out if we're being honest Um so shout out to anyone who took the survey We really deeply appreciate you Um

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

but yeah, so people have seen my name and

Austin McNair:

and.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Being here in person.

Austin McNair:

It's just, it's been so great to meet all these people. I I recognize all their names, I see their LinkedIn pictures, but now, you know, seeing the, the actual people in person, I've had a lot of people come up to me they recognize me for similar reasons and it's just like a nice payoff So if you are a marketing person who is investing in partnerships with associations, organizations, make sure you added that layer of some sort of face-to-face time because it really for me has been like a huge payoff To you know all the digital marketing stuff that we've done but like being able to be here go to the hotel bar and strike up like conversations that aren't just about business, not just about marketing. I mean, it's been, it's been really wonderful So it's been great and it's been great for our team. I mean, Mary Branch I don't think I've seen in person like two years.

Joe Pope:

years. I'd be longer than that.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

I don't think so.

Austin McNair:

years.

Joe Pope:

What was, I mean, when the last time Austin, how

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

specifically remember a happy hour

Austin McNair:

Yes I do too

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

In Reston Yes Oh yeah. That was the last time cause the last time you were in the States you saw Joe Joe

Joe Pope:

was

Austin McNair:

That was before I moved So that was three years ago.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

No you came back for a wedding You came back for wedding

Austin McNair:

Did we see each other

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Are you sure Are you sure were

Austin McNair:

there I know what you're talking about Yeah Yes Okay You did say yes Okay. Two years Two years. So two years. let the

Joe Pope:

memorable.

Austin McNair:

no it was, it's just

Joe Pope:

Up,

Austin McNair:

mixing up times I'm losing track Um, it Um

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

two years is still a long time Yeah

Joe Pope:

up times.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

uh,

Austin McNair:

yeah. There's no, getting around that travel kind of is tough right? Yeah. You had some You you had, had a hard time Joe

Joe Pope:

I think I I've learned less what? It's to be in your upper thirties and thinking that it's a good idea to, uh, uh, fly the same day across the country and then try to be on the be on the floor. For Full day for 10 hours. Yeah And it's survive. I My body's pretty much given up on me at definitely

Austin McNair:

I texted my wife you know, it's one of those things you hear about jet lag right You know when I'm in my twenties or you know I'm like JI show up a new place I'm excited I'm energized man The adrenaline's going like it's all good What is jet lag It doesn't matter It I'm at 35 years old now I can firmly say

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Holy smokes I've never I had I think going to bed last night I never, been as tired

Austin McNair:

I

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

as I had

Austin McNair:

mb How have you have been you know, we were talking earlier about the. kind of we're gonna talk to people about their. Takeaways, like their pivotal stories from the conference What has been like one of the big pivotal stories for you, coming outta the conference sessions and all that

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah so when we were talking earlier I was telling you you know I've really been trying to make sure I attended as many sessions as I could, more on them The client uh experience and more the operational, um data driven sessions Um, and there was this one session that was very focused towards client experience and uh, and focused on that data. Mm-hmm. And um, you know we at h talk a lot about leading indicators versus lagging indicators And uh the way she kind of chose to frame it, um, in, in her session was, uh. Looking at KPIs, key performance indicators, and also being very intentional about pairing each of your KPIs with a kbi which stands for Key Behavioral Indicators And I just thought it was just such an interesting. Just an interesting way to take kind of that uh something that we talk about at Hinge very often the leading versus the lagging indicators and kind of reframe it in a way that you can, you can really look at what those company KPIs are and really say, okay, well what behaviors are we doing to drive ultimately what the goals of each of those those KPIs are And I just I just, love the way that she framed that up and the way. Um, that she kind of just did that section in general You know, she was also very intentional about um getting time with people at your table to kind of understand what some of their pain points are and some of what their common KPIs are and being able to really tick and tie those KPIs to the KPIs So anyways, I I'm going on and on, but I just, I'm really excited to, to bring that back and how we can infuse that into, to some of the things that we're doing at Hinge.

Austin McNair:

I love that. So for me it was the kind of payoff of being in person. Um, kind of fulfilling that um you know those Those marketing partnerships and digital marketing campaigns For you, it was the KBI presentation, everything you just laid out. Joe, how about you? What, what's one kind of pivotal story takeaway that you have in the conference so far

Joe Pope:

I, I think seeing the results of our research. in action.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Uh, and that's not just the

Joe Pope:

budget benchmarking study which we you know, talked about, and. The The cornerstone. if you will, of our partnership with aim. But I mean, you talk about partnerships, you talk about live We talk about creating content and we're doing obviously right now. Yeah And seeing all of these pieces come together as part of our cohesive strategy because the type of investment it takes to even just that list out Yeah And what we're doing right now and plan it through and talk it and so forth. And then also see the all the other ways that when. You know not not recording content, but actually meeting people and making connections, letting off be the celebrity that he's I all of these different pieces. It's checking the boxes of all of the highest growth tech, uh, tactics that mm-hmm Professional services organizations used to be successful and then you know, I mean, what's validator what some of these speakers are talking about, the importance of metrics and. insights, then gathering database decision making, like, I mean, that's, that's. Right now Right Right. think I think I think I think, I think my takeaway is kind of this compilation of all these things coming together, seeing it inact participating. Yeah Uh, and then know, the best part is gonna be C list and exhaust that come out this. We've Yeah got so many great conversations. Maybe you got a website lead within five minutes of what the,

Austin McNair:

Yeah And

Joe Pope:

got. it's just so wild to see all these things come It just, uh, justifies. Putting the time and focus into a partnership. Yeah And an event strategy.

Austin McNair:

Yeah no absolutely I love it So I think ours were very similar Joe And um, now I'm really excited We're gonna turn to the rest

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

of the episode where we're gonna be talking to some of the attendees here

Austin McNair:

Um

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Some of who are gonna sit down with the three of us others we're kind of one-on-one interviews

Austin McNair:

Um

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

but we're gonna mix that all together because we know that you wanna hear from some of the leaders in the accounting marketing space

Austin McNair:

and

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

what they're taking away from this really important event one of a kind event So

Austin McNair:

let's

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

turn now and talk to some of these wonderful people who are have brilliant things to say and let's hear what is their pivotal story from the conference

Austin McNair:

All right. So who am I here with?

Julia Thompson:

I'm Julia Thompson from Sorin.

Austin McNair:

All right, Julia. So what is your pivotal story from the conference so far?

Julia Thompson:

I just came from an amazing session about conflict resolution with Ace, and it was so incredible, but I think the biggest takeaway was that everyone wants a good solution and it should be mutually beneficial. It should be easy to kind of agree that you want to find a good solution. You might disagree on how to get there. You might have different perspectives even. Different facts, different information, but remembering you're on the same team and that you want to be successful and you want to grow and you want to push things forward is just so crucial. Just grounds you and helps kind of take a little bit of the emotion and the heightened craziness out of it if you just remember you're on the same team.

Austin McNair:

Wow, brilliant. Thank you so much Julia. Have a great rest of the conference. Thank you.

Joe Pope:

Hey everyone. Joe Pope here with the Spiraling Up Podcast, and we are at the AIMS Summit this year. This is the 2025 edition, and I am joined by Becca Johns, a friend of the pod. Yeah. Becca, how's your summit going?

Becca Johns:

It's awesome. Um, I really enjoy seeing everybody every year. Um, this year is a little different for me. I'm out on my own now and it's a little lonely sometimes, so I feel like my cup is just so full. Spending time networking with everybody and seeing what everyone's been up to, it's been really awesome

Joe Pope:

making friends out here with the rest of us in the hallway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Playing hooky kind of fun. Okay, so here's the question. We're just asking, what is the pivotal story of AIM Summit this year?

Becca Johns:

I think it's the togetherness. Um, you know, it's nice to talk with people on the phone, on teams, but seeing them in person I think is really what the, what the value is for me. Um, you know, of course you, the sessions are awesome. We have some great speakers and presenters, but to me it's the time to connect one-on-one with people, um, is really like why I keep coming every year.

Joe Pope:

And this is such an, a good group right there. There's, I don't think there's another professional services association that puts together a conference like aim. This is a much must attend for all of us and that's why we're here. And, uh, you know, Becca, thank you so much for doing this. Yeah,

Becca Johns:

thanks. Nice talking with you.

Joe Pope:

Yep.

Sarah GHJ:

All right. So who am I here with now? Hi, my name is Sarah Avila. I work at GHJ. We're an accounting and advisory firm. Sarah, what is your pivotal story from the conference so far? I realize the importance of taking a step back and realizing the why of what your company does, what, why they do what they do, and using that to really focus on. Quality over quantity. When focusing your marketing efforts, have you done anything already, like maybe this year or like fairly recently in like kind of your marketing team to really drive home that message of like quality over quantity? Have you guys produced anything or have you kind of steered, how have you steered towards that direction a little bit? Well, as this was brand new. You know, thought bubble or, uh, light bulb from this conference, I'm gonna be taking it back and really looking at what we can do to make some changes. But it is a concept that had been floating around, especially when looking at our social media. Um, you know. You kind of get dinged a little bit by if you post too much. Yeah. So, you know, really refocusing that. And then also looking at what we're creating content-wise and making sure it's hitting the right audiences with the right message. So I think all of that is gonna be huge, and especially as we're looking at redoing some items on our website and, um, really hitting the correct target, uh, with activities and other things I. I'm gonna keep that mantra in my head. I love that. Thank you so much for talking with me, Sarah. Enjoy the rest of the conference. Thank you. It was great meeting you. Great meeting you too. All right.

Melissa Taylor:

Alright, so who am I here with? Hey, Melissa Taylor with Melton and Melton down in Houston. Alright, so what is your main pivotal story from the conference this year? Uh, trust is your North Star with everything that we're doing in, in marketing, business development, communications, anything under that role. If we don't have trust within the firm, then there's nothing that we do that matters. We can have all the knowledge with the tech stack, we can have all the skill sets in the world, but if we don't have our partner's trust. There's no reason for us to have any of that skills. So what's one thing you learned about building that trust? I know there's been a lot of like great presentations that have touched on that topic. Have you taken away anything a little practical and building trust across your, your company? Oh, man. Consistency. Integrity is just key. Do what you say, say what you do. Um, and then the, the old phrase matters. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So. Uh, just think, um, you know, your core values, just letting those shine through is, is really what's just gonna, uh, it's gonna let yourself shine who you are and then just, we'll, we'll perpetuate that trust even further. Excellent. Well, thank you for talking with us. Enjoy the rest of the conference. Thank you. Thank you.

Gabe:

All right, so who am I here with? Uh, my name is Gabe Tevrizian. I'm director of Growth with CBM in the Washington DC area. Great to talk to you, Gabe. We're definitely neighbors here, uh, in the DC area. So Gabe, what has been the pivotal story for you being here at the AIM Conference this year? You know, from the, uh, the get go. Um, I think the level of authenticity, I've been noticing that a lot. Um, you know, whether in the sessions, um, the brand story and the brand, um, workshops have been really meaningful and, and, and is really helping firms understand the value of authenticity. So that's kind of one of the key takeaways. What is one way that in your day to day kind of. Life as a, as a marketing leader, how do you try to demonstrate authenticity? Gosh, you know, there's a long list of things that I can think of, you know, but clearly the way we articulate our value propositions and the way we connect with the market, um, and then really, uh, following through with the content that we produce really is like. It's a game changer when you think about engaging the right audience at the right time. It was such just in that session a minute ago, so it's fresh in my mind. I love that. I love it Gabe. So thanks for talking with us. Enjoy the rest of the conference. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Alright.

Mary-Blanche:

welcome up to the Spiraling Up Podcast. Thank you so much for taking a couple minutes to be with us today. Tell us what is your name and who are you with?

Rhonda Clark:

I'm Rhonda Clark and I am the Executive Director for the Association for County Marketing.

Joe Pope:

In

Austin McNair:

other words, you're the one to thank for putting on this wonderful event. Uh, Rhonda, how's it all going for you?

Rhonda Clark:

the conference has been amazing. I would say not. I'm not, I can't take all the credit. I can't take all the credit. You have a great team. We do. We have an amazing conference team that works so hard, and they do from the time this one ends. They immediately start working on the next one. And we also have, I have to thank Samantha Bowerman, our meeting manager, who is fantastic. You know, she's been with us so many years and, and she's just such a great asset to have on our team. I,

Austin McNair:

I, that Samantha, it's amazing, it's so detail oriented. She gets everything that way ahead of time. She makes it easy for partners, she makes it easy for speakers. I, she's doing great, but. Run it. This event has changed so much over the years. I wanted, and I wanna know, kind of like this year, what has been kind of the main takeaway? What's been the pivotal story for you? Whatcha walking away with this year?

Rhonda Clark:

Oh gosh, Austin, So much. I mean, again, like we really work hard every year. You know, we take the feedback that we receive, you know, each year at the end of the conference, and we really take that into consideration on how we can improve for the next year. And, you know, so I mean it's, and it's just so many different things. Uh, I think, you know, one of the main things that we focus on. Is, you know, the content, which is incredibly important. You know, that's what drives people well, I'd say the content and the networking is what drives people to the conference for sure. Uh, but we do, we really wanna understand what our members wanna learn about, so, and, and who they wanna learn from. And we try to find the best people. To talk on those, those particular subjects. So I feel like every year we continue to elevate the content for the conference. And then also just, again, our members love to come together and be with one another. They love to share and learn, and they just love to connect. So we do, we try to find lots of different networking opportunities for them to come together. Even just like as you see across the way, we've got our bookmark table where they're creating bookmarks and they can come together and sit. And talk while they're, you know, coloring these bookmarks. So just all kinds of different opportunities for them to come together and help grow their networks.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. Right next to the socks.

Rhonda Clark:

Yes.

Joe Pope:

Yes. Some wonderful conversations, folks just, uh, coming by. Socks, donate. It's awesome. These, this. You did say something, this keep my mind back, which was praying already starting for next year.

Rhonda Clark:

Yes.

Joe Pope:

Any chance has a sneak peek? Might

Rhonda Clark:

be, yes. I'm happy to share. It's gonna be in, uh, Palm Springs.

Joe Pope:

Oh, okay. Awesome. So we'll be more than that. We'll be in the sun again.

Austin McNair:

Yes.

Rhonda Clark:

Back in the desert.

Austin McNair:

I think I was spreading this information. I think I may have told somebody at Palm Beach. So I'll have to go and find that person. Can we edit that? I can't edit that conversation. I wasn't on camera. Yeah, no. Uh, okay. So Palm Springs, that's great.

Rhonda Clark:

Yes, Palm Springs. Well,

Austin McNair:

Rona, one thing that um, we've already told people on the podcast, but I'll reinforce it again, is that this partnership that we do with the marketing and budget benchmark study, it's an excellent resource. If anyone's listening, you in the account industry have website and buy that report. It is the best data in the. Create one of a kind survey that captures what the fastest growing account doing. We're gonna pushing it hard. It's a wonderful project and the research that you guys provide to your members. Um, and you know, again, Rhonda, you're crushing it. Oh, thank you, Austin. And

Rhonda Clark:

again, we are so grateful and enjoy our partnership with Hinge. Thank you all for, again, partnering this year, uh, on the, on the survey with us. Um, we couldn't, obviously we couldn't do it without you.

Austin McNair:

Yeah. And this has. Go enjoy the rest of the conference and, uh, we'll talk again soon. My

Rhonda Clark:

pleasure. Thank you all so much. Thank you.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Alright, well welcome to the Spiraling Up podcast. Thanks for taking a few minutes to be with us today. Tell us what's your name and who are you with?

Brenda Sleeper:

Uh, my name is Brenda Sleeper and I am a director, relationship director with the BDO Alliance. We have 258 CPA firms that are part of our program, and we have 186, uh, business resource network firms as well. And, um, the alliance program has been in effect for 30 over 30 years. Fantastic. Well, today we're asking people what is your pivotal story for this weekend, the summit. Now that could be a key session, uh, maybe an overarching theme, uh, but what has been your pivotal story this week? Well, I think that, um, the 35th anniversary of aim, the fact that AIM started and started here in Arizona. Oh, wow. And so last night there was a special, um. Cocktail reception, um, here, and it was for the Hall of Famers. So, you know, there's a lot of history, nostalgia, the stuff that they brought and had out on the tables of things that were like, you know, like cassette discs, you know, like, I mean, it was really funny. It's really funny now that we look back at it, but that, you know, we were state of the art back then. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it was fun and it was really great to see everybody so.

Austin:

So you've seen the full evolution of, of AIM Um, well, my, one of my questions my is what does it take to be to become an AIM Hall of Famer? Can Tell us little bit about that program.

Brenda Sleeper:

Be old. No, um, you know, AIM was my passion. I started out as a marketing director at a firm in Massachusetts and not really understanding that my journey through the accounting industry would be this long. That was 1999 and a year into it, somebody introduced me to aim. And when you're a marketing director in a CPA firm. You need support, you need services, you need mentors, mentors, you, you know what I mean? So for me, AIM was just so pivotal, pivotal in my career. And even though I wasn't with a firm for, I've been working like you, I was a vendor and now I'm in this role. Um, I still, my passion and my heart was still with AIM and helping them grow. So, yeah, it's been, it's been a great journey.

Joe Pope:

since.

Austin:

Well, thank you so much for sitting down with us. Thanks for all that you do for aim. I mean, I know none of this comes together without, you know, the the, participation of lots of people coming together and participation, so it's been great meeting you. Thanks for sitting down and talking with us.

Brenda Sleeper:

Thank you. It's the best thing that's ever happened, I really think, to the industry. So thanks. Thank you. Thank you.

Austin McNair:

All right. So who are we here with and what's the name of your company

Brunella Reid:

I work for Moore Olson.

Austin McNair:

and your name?

Brunella Reid:

My name is Ella Reed Brunel and I am a partner and CMO at that firm.

Austin McNair:

Awesome. Well, uh, Brunel and I just, Brunel is the President-elect of aim, so congratulations. We're excited to see the direction that you take aim. It's already. The positive directions are already, it's already going and I know you're gonna continue it. Um, so, but we've been connected in the past and we met here in person for the first time, just established that we have a connection. The Brazilian connection, I'm living there right now. You grew up in Brazil? Yeah.

Brunella Reid:

that's right. That's right. I, I mean, I was born there. I lived there until I was 16 I came here as an exchange student. Um, and I didn't know I was gonna end up staying. I ended up going to college and everything and then got my first job and then I blinked my eye. Here I am. lived here way longer than I lived in Brazil, but you know, I. I go there whenever I can and I miss it a lot. Um, but yeah, that's where I'm from. A lot of people are like, I didn't know you're from there. Like, I know. I didn't know either. I mean, that's one of the best things about like coming in person and actually meeting people. You find out these cool things about them. It was just awesome. I know whenever we wore the meetup, um, for the first timers and you said that, I was like, no way. We gotta talk. I know. Yeah.

Austin McNair:

we did and, and it, and it was great. Brune, we are, uh, just asking everybody what is the pivotal story for you from the conference? What has been like a, a session that stood out to you or kind of a primary takeaway? What, what would be.

Brunella Reid:

I think the main thing for me is that how we are really the drivers of growth for our firms, and we cannot forget that. I think that is what I'm walking away with. You know, like for my role, I am the CMO, but I am looking at the firm overall. What is our strategy? How are we growing? How can I bring these ideas into play at the firm that I'm at? I loved Alex's. Presentation on just strategy. And I think with that's the role we really need to be playing. We need to be stepping back and looking at our firms and seeing what are the gaps? What are we not doing right? Because the majority of departs of the firms that we're at, they're really busy. I mean, they're, they're trying their best to, you know, run the farm and run it efficiently and do all of that. The, the role that we need to step into is. Helping with strategy and driving that growth. So looking at that, looking at what roles you can play and explaining why that matters and how it fits into your firm in particular, that's when you have to navigate it a little bit. So not everything that you hear may work for your firm. How you digest that down to your market, to your firm, and how you can make an impact for growth for, for your particular firm. I, I love that. Bru.

Austin McNair:

Brune, Thank you so much for sitting down with us and sharing your ful story. It was great to make the connection in person and good luck in, uh, the upcoming year being president elect.

Brunella Reid:

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate your support. Yeah, absolutely. All right, thanks. Thank you. Take care.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

All right. Well, welcome to the Spiraling Up Podcast. Tell us what's your name and who are you with?

Caren Rodriguez:

My name is Karen Rodriguez and I'm with D-M-J-P-S CPAs and Advisors space in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Austin McNair:

Karen. We've been asking everybody that we've talked to today, like what is your pivotal story or like main takeaway from the conference this year.

Caren Rodriguez:

I really like the keep start, stop philosophy. And I think when you're on day three of a conference, there's a lot to absorb. So if I think about it through that lens, um, it's very reaffirm, reaffirming. There are some things that we can keep doing. There are some, some things that we just need to stop doing. For example, we love data, we love numbers, but we need to stop with the vanity metric. we need to look at numbers and the meaning and behaviors behind those numbers. So when I get back and we look at our reporting and what that means to our initiatives moving forward, I wanna make sure that we're not just doing it through a lens of vanity, but what makes real impact and our marketing initiatives and our strategic growth.

Joe Pope:

Is there a number. that really stands out to you, like a metric, for example, that kind of falls into that mindset that you're. You're thinking, I'm pulling that piece Summit and I'm gonna bring that forward, uh, uh, for my firm.

Caren Rodriguez:

You know, I mean, I guess in the most traditional sense, if you just look at your website'cause we're on the eve of potentially making some changes there. Okay. You know, it's the old school way of, we got, you know, 14 million visitors this year. But we really need to know about the behaviors of those visitors and what their journey is through our website and our thought leadership. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Austin McNair:

Well, Karen, thanks so much for sitting down with us. Have a great rest of the conference and uh, yeah, it's been great learning about your pivotal story.

Caren Rodriguez:

great. Thank you guys day.

Joe Pope:

Alright, guys. Welcome back. I am joined directly next to me by my conference. Bessie Paul, why don't you introduce yourself, buddy.

Paul Boechler:

Hey, I'm Paul Beckler. I'm the BD and marketing manager at Virtus Group in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada.

Austin McNair:

We already gave a, a shout out to Saskatoon

Joe Pope:

out.

Austin McNair:

Joe. Joe said that your, your session stood out to him. Um, so That's that's

Joe Pope:

Yeah, Paul, the, uh, the thing really was when you brought up those metrics, showing your efforts and this how you're taking on content marketing, how you play it across your SEO efforts, and also the thing that really I think resonates, and we're hearing it across a lot of sessions, is developing the trust with your partners to put their efforts towards these types of things as well, right? That you're getting buy-in from these folks to contribute.

Paul Boechler:

Rome wasn't built in a day, but uh, brick by brick we're slowly laying the foundation. So, no, it's been good. It's been good.

Austin McNair:

Right on. Yeah. Question. we're asking people in the hot seat

Joe Pope:

of

Austin McNair:

you currently occupy, what is your

Joe Pope:

pivotal story, your key

Austin McNair:

today from?

Joe Pope:

Summit 2025?

Paul Boechler:

Okay, so for the last probably three years, everybody's been talking about AI this and AI that. Um, the session that I sat in yesterday was so pivotal, uh, for my, my. Kind of like my understanding of kind of where things are going from an SEO perspective and optimizing for generative search is by far gonna be the most important, uh, avenue for us in terms of our SEO efforts and, and content generation Thinking about it in a different way than, you know, traditional SEO would be.

Austin McNair:

I'm a bit of an SEO wonk myself. I was in the same session. I'm curious, like, you know, was there like technical details that he called out that you were like, dude, yeah, we, we haven't done that yet, or we need to accelerate on this project?

Paul Boechler:

I think it was a simple thing, like it was, it was just one little detail that he added that I was like, that we're gonna do that. And I think it's taking the questions that people are asking and using those as your headings and the, the driving force behind your content, that's such a little tweak that I think is gonna have a big impact on the content that we create going forward.

Austin McNair:

Yeah. I love that. Yeah, I, I took a lot of similar things away. Um, it's just, it's changing so quickly. I, I like how he was honest about the things that we know and the things that we dunno yet.

Joe Pope:

Mm-hmm.

Austin McNair:

Um, so it's great. I mean, it's a topic we continue to come back to.

Joe Pope:

Yep.

Austin McNair:

Anything else you took away?

Paul Boechler:

I mean, there's been a lot of good sessions, right? Uh, even just taking a little bit of time to reflect on kind of what are the, what are the things that we can do at our firm to get 10% better and move in, you know, a more quantified. Direction where we can provide actual quantifiable data to our, our partner group going this works or this does not work and we need to fix this. Um, so all the sessions have been valuable. Um, I, I personally like the, those digital marketing sessions where I can kind of get the creative juices flowing, that tends to be the most fruitful for me.

Austin McNair:

I love that. Absolutely. Well, Paul, I'm

Joe Pope:

glad uh,

Austin McNair:

I'm glad Joe become conference besties. and

Joe Pope:

and, uh, thanks for sitting

Austin McNair:

thanks down.

Joe Pope:

us. Yeah, absolutely. Anytime guys. Hey,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Alright, well welcome up to the Spiraling Up Podcast. Tell us what is your name and who are you with?

Joe Kovacs:

Sure. My name is Joe Kovac. I am founder and managing director of Covax Communications, relatively new marketing consultancy, serving the accounting industry. I recently left my in-house role. I'd been working in-house for more than 15 years, so this is a big change for me.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Fantastic. Well listen, thanks for taking the time. Uh, take a couple minutes with us. Uh, today we are asking folks, you know, what has been your pivotal story from the conference this week? That could be a key session, maybe an overarching theme. Um, but what is the pivotal story this week for you?

Joe Kovacs:

Yeah, so I'll break that into two parts. Uh, first we'll start with the sessions. I was in a great session yesterday, I think it was yesterday, that looked at not only the value of KPIs and key performance indicator, but also vrs, Mm-hmm. Which which are keeping behavior. indicators. what behaviors. lead to those KPIs. and I'm sure the concepts been around for while? but I'd never seen it broken down like that. So I thought that was really cool. the Part of my answer is just going be the networking, because, I've been coming to the summit for 15 years now. so I. usually tend to have a plan coming here, but then I run into someone or sitting at a table to do something and then someone drops by. And organic aspect of it is very, a very positive thing. You know, the interruptions are great. They're part of the experience.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Well, I love that you brought up the session with the the KPIs and KBIs. Uh, I was also in that session and I went on and on about it earlier. I just loved the way, that she took kind of a common like leading and lagging computers and I kind of reframed that for the group. And then I also loved the way that that we really had a. chance to interact with other people at our table and kind of understand what are some of their KPIs and,

riverside_guest_cam _ mb audio_raw-synced-video-cfr_spiraling_up studio_0133-1:

you know, how, how they see tying Those KPIs to some of those things going forward.

Joe Kovacs:

Yeah, no, you put that really Well. I do like the idea of the lead lead on the LA indicators. I mean, because what you do now, the ultimate goal the ultimate outcome, it might not happen. right away. That's to happen, right? That's why you you have what you do today and what you hope for in the future. If you're doing the right thing, now you know your chance. of achieving what you wanna achieve. That big goal that never gets done at one time. You're more than to go. to get there. Right.

Austin:

Joe, thanks so much for sitting down and, uh, telling us about your pivotal story. Good luck with, uh, the new venture.

Joe Pope:

Thanks so much. Thanks for having. Appreciate you, Joe.

Austin McNair:

All right, so who are we here with? What firm do you work

Apoorv Dwivedi:

for? Uh, my name ti I'm with Fixer Marketing

Austin McNair:

And I gotta give you a quick shout out. I mentioned earlier we did the marketing budget, benchmark study. Apor was critical in helping us to, uh, make the study even better this year. So thank you for your,

Apoorv Dwivedi:

Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah. I

Austin McNair:

wanted to ask, so what is the pivotal story for you from the conference? What is something you, you took away this year?

Apoorv Dwivedi:

So from the 2025 AIM Summit, I'd say probably the, the key, uh, takeaway for me, the key theme that I've been hearing over and over is the integration of different aspects around growth, right? So everything from marketing to BD to, you know, even the, uh, the keynote speaker day one kicked it off Keith Razzi, right. You know, and, and he, he shared some really good insights around, um. Uh, growth strategies that even smaller firms can use, right? So it's not just like, here's a kind of single approach or, you know, kind of getting into like tactical marketing stuff about, um, one specific thing. You have to do this one thing or that one thing, but it's kinda like that overarching theme. And I think people are starting to look. A lot more strategically at growth for their accounting practices, for their advisory practices, and they're looking, okay, how do we integrate all these different components, right? Customer experience, marketing, right. Bd, all this type of stuff. Right. So just to kind of put all that together. Mm-hmm. This, yeah. Yeah. I think this is my fifth one in a row, right? So in Curious. Come out, you see this, you guys like, right? Yeah. So, um, uh, I mean, five years ago, it wasn't even that long when you really think about it, right? But what happened in that time period, right? So we're coming at COVID, right? Um, there's been a lot of changes in, uh, the market with governments and policies. There's, um, you're seeing a lot of. Uh, outside pressure from like private equity firms and folks like that as well. That's all kind of being, uh, on top of the state of the industry with. Um, staffing shortages with a lot of people, uh, looking at potentially exiting the business. So there's just like a whole bunch of catalysts of change and stuff coming together, right. It's, it, it, like in the last four or five years, it's, it's been, it's been time brewin for like 10, 12 years or so. Yeah, more, but like particularly in the last few years, it's coming together more and more and it used to be more of kind of like an outside thing. Now it's like, it's, it's a discussion we're having all the time, right. In a lot of the different sessions. So you really kind of see the, you know, um, the marketers are more kind of in tune with helping firms to adapt and stay ahead of everything that's going on externally. Yeah. That, yeah. Yes. Awesome. There's a lot of, we're trying to coach the marketers. Yeah. And now naturally How Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, thanks for sitting down with us. It's, uh, great to hear. Enjoy the rest of the conference. Always. My pleasure. Um, just to shout out to the folks at Hinge and the. Um, for those of you that are out there, uh, there is really no other place in the industry where you can get that information, so, um, we, we really love the work that you guys do. Appreciate it. Yeah, that means a lot. Okay, thanks.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

All right, producer John, uh, tell us what is your name and who are you with?

John Tyreman:

I am producer John. Awesome. John Tieman. And, um, I am with Red Cedar Marketing, which is the, uh, marketing company that I, I run and, uh, yeah. And I'm happy to be here with you guys and producing the, uh, the Spiraling Up podcast. It's a lot of fun.

Austin McNair:

John is also a former hinge, so all of us, Joe, mayor Blanche, myself, we've been at Hinge a while. We all worked together, John, back in the day, back in the office in Reston. Um, this is such a throwback man, dude. I mean, we've been working on the podcast now for over a year, but here we are, like in person again. It's been great catching up with you. How have you, uh, been enjoying the conference? Uh, AIM Summit and, um, I gotta say, I, I love everything about it because the, I, like you said, I worked at HI was my first job outta college. The very first day I walked into h um, I sat down and Lee Frederick and said, alright John, here's your first assignment. And it was the aim, budget, benchmark study, full circle. Yeah. So I've. Um, and that's been just a kind, like core part of my career. And so finally I was in a position to where I could become an A member and attend a conference. And it's just been great. It's been a fantastic event. Anybody who is involved in accounting, marketing should definitely consider a Yeah, agree. So, John, listen, one thing we're asking people this week is what has been their pivotal story for the week, for the summit? And for some people that has been a key session or maybe a key insight. Uh, for some people it's more of an overarching thing. But, but tell us what, what I think honestly, how approachable, how friendly people I, uh, I don't. There's always somebody who's, Hey, can I join you for lunch if I sit down? You're very welcome. People are so willing to strike a conversation here, and it's honestly, it's different than other conferences that I've been to where people can be a little bit more standoffish. Um. I also like the, the amount of people that are here. It's not big, not small. You see new faces, but also the same faces again and again. A great recipe for friendships. So, John, you are clearly here helping, representing yourself. I know you've been helping us out, John Renee, obviously, but in terms of what you've been able to see on, on your side of being able to have some great conversations, what, anything real key takeaways there? Well, you know, we talked about this a little bit, but uh, I'm. And I didn't realize how big of a hit that was. I was, I just thought, you know, hey, I could get a little bit of brand visibility for one of my podcasts breaking, but I. I was gonna say, I, I, I thought when we asked what's your pivotal story, you were gonna jump straight into the hat because Yeah. I was with you earlier when someone came by and said, dude, that's a great hat. And you know, we're here in Arizona and you've got like the breaking bad vibes with the hat and the branding. I mean, dude, this couldn't have worked out better for you. I, I, people come up to me and they said, you stand out. They're different. That's awesome. Well, John, uh, you've made it happen for us here at the AIM event. You've helped us record this. Um, we really appreciate all the work you've put into helping make spiraling up successful, and it's been great spending time with you. Thank you. Thank you. You're listening to this right now. Like the YouTube channel. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. Spiraling Up podcasts coming at you episodes every other week. Awesome show. Atta boy. Thanks John.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

All right. So guys, um, smart people here Yeah, good stuff

Joe Pope:

Un

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Un unbelievably smart people here. Um, I'm hearing a lot of themes about building trust across the organization, right? That was the.

Joe Pope:

Yeah.

Austin McNair:

Tru

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Trust over and over and over. Uh I'm hearing a lot about you know kind of technology and like taking strides forward this year and not kind of sit you know, not just sitting in your CRM system that's got all these big problems but actually taking action Um, but yeah, I don't know I think that the trust one was like the one that kept coming back up

Joe Pope:

over

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

and over again Um especially for the accounting industry Um that you know these they're working with all the distributed partners and experts across the organization How do they get more involvement right And how do they get more buy-in from those experts Um that really stood out to me in some of these conversations Um but yeah, really brilliant people. Great event. Um you guys had a good time. Yeah,

Joe Pope:

I

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

mean, good time

Joe Pope:

met her

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

conference bestie. I did you guys yeah Yeah We have a conference I do have a conference vest Yeah Side of the country too. Yeah 100 Yeah And I think that that's just a really good um it just shows like what the the kind of people that are here and the kind of connections that you can make A lot of the things that you were just saying But yeah

Austin McNair:

yeah

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Well we hope you

Austin McNair:

a lot from this

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

episode

Austin McNair:

Um if you

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

um if you haven't heard about

Austin McNair:

Aim

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

before you can go and visit their website at uh

Austin McNair:

I

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

I think it's accounting marketing.org Uh we'll get you the we'll put the link on the screen Reach around

Austin McNair:

the put the link on the

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Good job Um but yeah. Uh great episode great event It was so great to see you guys in person You know we've already, we've already hit the hotel bar a couple times We still have got one more night together so

Austin McNair:

uh

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

making making the most out of our time together as a team making cool

Joe Pope:

memories.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Making new memories, meeting your friends Um so thank you guys on behalf of Joe Mary Blanc myself and producer John who's here with us John good job man This has been great Um thank you guys for watching Spiraling Up We'll see you on the next episode