Spiraling Up — Marketing For Professional Services

Date, Marry, Dump: Making Good Marketing (And Design) Choices with Thiel & Team

• Hinge • Season 1 • Episode 19

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The Spiraling Up crew takes the show on the road to Southlake, Texas, for a special live recording with Paige Byrd and Elyssa Stephenson, co-presidents of the award-winning interior design and procurement firm Thiel & Team.

Together, they dig into what it takes to grow a thriving professional services business—balancing creativity, client management, and operational excellence. Then, things take a fun turn as they play Date, Marry, Dump: Business Edition—debating which marketing strategies and workplace trends they’d keep, test, or toss in today's marketplace.

From thought leadership and speaking gigs to LinkedIn trends, company retreats, and even questionable office décor choices (yes, fake fig trees make an appearance), this episode blends laughter with serious insights about running a high-performing firm that still knows how to have fun.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
01:03 Why Hinge is in Texas
02:21 Meet the Co-Presidents of Teal and Team
06:18 The Evolution of THIELCON
07:24 Canyon Creek Renovation
09:25 The Year of the Travel Maximizer
11:01 Experience in Business and Leisure
17:32 Game Time: Date, Marry, Dump
19:35 Thought Leadership Vehicles
25:55 Aesthetic Annoyances
30:16 Website and Digital Experience
35:19 Unfortunate Workplace Communications
36:50 Company Culture Initiatives
42:22 Remote/Hybrid Work Quirks
45:13 Branding Strategies
52:19 Conclusion and Contact Information

Visit Thiel & Team's website: https://thielandteam.com/
Connect witih Paige: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paige-byrd-a0a44210/
Connect with Elyssa: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elyssa-stephenson/

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

In today's episode of Spiraling Up, we are live in the great state of Texas to talk all things events and play a special business growth edition of Date Mary Dump with Paige Byrd and Issa Stevenson, co-presidents of Teal and team, alongside hinges managing director Katie Po. Welcome friends. This is spiraling up with Hinge. Welcome to Spiraling Up the podcast for professional services marketers and business leaders. My name is Mary Blanche, and I will be doing my best Austen impression today alongside the faithfully reliable color commentary of none other than Mr. Joop. F

Joe Pope:

reliable is a strong word to use there.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

So reliable. And as we get started, as always, we wanna say thank you to our listeners and those watching on YouTube. And if you haven't yet, we'd love it if you could support the podcast by giving us a, like, leaving a comment or review and of course subscribing to our show.

Joe Pope:

So why is Hinge in Texas? Uh, well in short Teal Con, uh, it's a premier architectural and design product and professional services showcase. Created by our clients, teal and team, to serve vendors and partners across the commercial real estate, multifamily and hospitality industries. So this year, the event was held at a recently renovated Canyon Creek Country Club in Richardson, Texas, and played host to more than 200 professionals, Austin included. hinge was honored to participate this year and be a sponsor of the nine in Wine Golf Tournament at Te Ocon to support a fantastic charity. Uh, entryway and I actually had the opportunity to play golf with their CEO and president. Uh, we did not win.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

We had fun though,

Joe Pope:

right? That's what's most important. Uh, so Entryway is a, a nonprofit that is successfully partnered with multifamily housing providers across the United States for more than a decade to help individuals experiencing situational homelessness find a path to stability and success, which brings us to today's podcast Coming to You Live from TE and Teams HQ in South Lake, Texas. And we will be joined by their co-presidents, Paige Bird and Alyssa Stevenson. Thank you for having us, guys.

Paige Byrd:

Welcome to Texas. We're glad you guys are here to be here.

Joe Pope:

So, as I mentioned, co-presidents, that's an interesting title for obvious reasons, but tell us how that all came about.

Elyssa Stephenson:

it kind of like morphed. Um, we've been work wives for 18 years now. Mm-hmm. Uh, and it's actually our partnership. Uh, I think it's one of the means most to us in this world that we live in. Mm-hmm. Um, but we started, uh. Basically she was a designer. I was a procurement agent at Teal and team, and we were given the opportunity by the co-founders, Beth and Kurt Teal to buy into the company. Um, and yeah, so that's how kind of our co-presidents name was born. And the cool thing about it is she is great at many things. I'm good at a few things I think, but we, we divide and conquer so well. She's got her swim lanes and I have mine. And then when I step over into hers, we fight and then we, yeah, we do. Yeah. And then we work it out. Uh, and we, and we keep moving, but at the center of this partnership is a deep love, deep abiding love for our people and our faith. And that's what keeps us together.

Paige Byrd:

And we have an understanding of what our strengths are, and we really, really feed off of that. Like we're elissa's really strong. I am weak, and vice versa. We've figured that out along the way. Respect each other and like definitely try to stay in our swim lanes most days. Most days.

Joe Pope:

I mean that, that was, that was much more powerful than what I was thinking was coming, which was that LinkedIn doesn't accept work wives as a title.

Paige Byrd:

We'll work on that.

Joe Pope:

We think he could stick it in the headline. You can pretty much put whatever you

Paige Byrd:

want. Yeah, that's true.

Joe Pope:

And as your marketing agency, I would recommend you don't stick to that now.

Katy Pultz:

True.

Joe Pope:

Uh, we're also joined by our friend and hinge colleague, Katie Ltz.

Katy Pultz:

Hello.

Joe Pope:

Katie is a managing director at Hinge and is the lead on y'all's account. Mm. So we thought it would be nice, uh, recognizing that we just finished wrapping up a case story, video testimonial, those types of things. Great piece of content. Recommend you do those types of things as a marketer. Yeah. As a marketing asset. Uh, but we just finished wrapping that up and, uh, three of you guys did awesome. Really appreciate you giving us some time to do that. Um, Tell us a little bit though about the partnership that we all have together. If you all don't mind.

Elyssa Stephenson:

basically hinge, uh, we've been working with them for coming up on two years. Uh, we resigned for another engagement and we have had the honor and privilege to really go through their entire process from the beginning of the research study. And there was so much value in that, that which, you know, informed the strategy that they then put together for us. And then fast forward, uh, we have a brand new website. That launched in December of last year, and we, it's our major sales tool. We're converting top of funnel leads. We're on a lot of different channels. They're helping us with social, they help us with blog and education based content. Um, they're an extension of our team. And it blows my mind some days all that we're able to accomplish and all that we actually are doing with you guys. It's, it's crazy. It's a lot.

Katy Pultz:

What she said pretty much settle it up. Yeah. But, uh, essentially I love this relationship because it's, we're just, one of the things I think I said from the beginning is, you know how I think you asked me how will this work best? How do you work best? And I said, you know, we just, we're gonna be honest with each other, is, I'm gonna be honest with you and let you know what you need to do. You know why something's not working.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Mm-hmm.

Katy Pultz:

You know, that sort of thing. And I think we've held true to

Elyssa Stephenson:

that. Absolutely. Uh, Katie has busted me on several of occasions at this point, and I love it when you do. I love it. She helps keep us in check, and I love that.

Joe Pope:

Well, we appreciate you guys also giving us the opportunity to crash in your now make, uh, now make your podcast studio your conference room, uh, as, as part of the intro read I referenced your amazing event, teal K. How did the idea of throwing an event like that even come about?

Paige Byrd:

This has morphed into, like last year it was completely different than what it was just this year, but at the heart of it, you know, we had after COVID and having kind of a hybrid remote work situation. We had a list of two years long for our vendors to come see our team. And that's way too long for us and for them. So we were like, let's get together, let's get a venue, get everybody in one space, and essentially throw a party. And they're like, and if you throw a party, then you gotta invite a lot of people. Yeah, that's right. So then we ended up inviting industry partners and our clients and it was just a great way to have FaceTime and actually see new product alongside of them. Um, so that's how it started last year. And then this year we asked how could we make this more complicated? And we decided to do a golf tournament. Yes. Because we were like, we designed golf clubs. Yes. Like we need to be having a golf event. So, and it was amazing. We had a great turnout. Um, a lot of existing clients, leads and prospects, industry partners, and just new friends. It was, it was an amazing turnout. It was

Katy Pultz:

super fun.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah. But the whole purpose is fellowship and seeing new things, becoming inspired and just doing something great for our industry.

Yeah.

Joe Pope:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about Canyon Creek, the venue that it was at.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah, so Canyon Creek, we, um, finished up the renovation there as the architect of record. Interior designer and procurement agent last year. Um, and it was a pretty big renovation. We added a fitness and wellness wellness component and a bar that we designed like 10 to 12 years ago. Like we were ripping out what we did a decade ago, turning that bar and grill into their new fitness and wellness center and then. Pre-function and event space that became their new bar and member dining space. Um, so it was cool, like, you know, you've been doing this a while when you're like coming in and demoing your old work and then like redo, like starting fresh and you're kind of like, oh, I didn't make that choice 10 years ago. But you know.

Joe Pope:

Well, we'll ask, uh, we'll ask our friend, producer, Adrian to come bring some of the B-roll and other, uh, content that was recorded yesterday at that event. Uh, so we can show the viewers of this podcast, some of that. Uh, but you all did such an amazing job. That place is stunning, especially working with the size that was available to you. Like it's not the largest country club. At all. But the fact that they're so open and area and feeling and so forth, uh, it looked amazing.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Katie was saying something really cool. Uh, and thinking back, it's like we don't really get to experience, you know, once we complete a space, you know, we get to capture it. We add it to our portfolio, but. To be able to have, you know, all of our, you know, close clients and friends and like thinking back to yesterday and that bar was full of people.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Uh, you know, enjoying eating, drinking, laughing. Uh, it was really special. It's super fun to see it like in action live and experiencing that with people you care about.

Paige Byrd:

And as a design professional, there's nothing more rewarding than seeing a space that you design. Like actually people coming and making memories and, you know, being able to experience that and see it. That's, you know, stand back and watch it.

Joe Pope:

Well, that experience is actually part of the reason that we wanted you all to join us, uh, specifically in this edition of our pivotal story segment. Uh, which is a big piece of, uh, the report that we're gonna be talking about. Mary Blanc. Do you wanna give us a rundown?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah, So in today's pivotal story, 2025 is the year of the travel maximizer. According to Hilton's Global Trends report, business travelers are chasing high impact ventures, making the most of every trip. Every dollar and every experience, and it's not just leisure travelers that are driving the shift. A whopping 87% of Gen Zers say that they're more likely to travel for an external work or work-related event in the next year. Blurring the line between business and adventure like never before. So what does this mean for event organizers and professional services firms trying to connect with this next generation of travelers?

Joe Pope:

Yeah, I mean, the Hilton Trends report, um, is an interesting, it's a very good piece of content, frankly. But that experience piece was key. It came across everything they were talking about, both on the professional side and personal side. The people are looking for experiences, especially the millennials and Gen Z, where it is a non-negotiable that they are going to show up, whether it's. For work or leisure. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and have a diverse, uh, experience. It's not just for one thing. They're looking for multiple conversations. People to talk with, uh, to interact with who they travel with, things along those lines. And you all just talking through the experience that folks had at Teal Con made this feel like something that was really, that really resonated. I'm really interested to kind of hear y'all's perspective as well. I know in some of the research that we've done together, it led Teon team to have their own trends report. That was something that we thought was gonna be a really good piece of content for you all to create

Elyssa Stephenson:

Well, I think the big key central theme here is whether you're traveling for business or for leisure. What you're looking for is both. I mean, you, it's like everybody just wants to be able to do everything all the time. Mm-hmm. And it, it plays to convenience. It plays to wellness, it plays to, you know, being able to have a hospitality environment, you know, from the time you get up to when you go to bed. I mean, you can say more.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah. Well, I think too, like there's so much more, especially within business, like there's more emphasis on relationship, right? Mm-hmm. And what's a better way to bond? Then over some activity. Yeah. You know, and doing things together instead of just saying, well, let's go to dinner, or let's do this. I think just it is more of an enriching, first of all, trip, and then you're actually building more rapport and relationship with people that you're traveling with, whether it be, you know, business travel or for leisure.

Joe Pope:

Katie, what'd you think specifically in terms of when you hear something along the lines of 87% of the next generation of workers coming in and saying, yeah, well this is something that's gonna be a part of our day to day. Like, how does that kind of hit to you? Like, are, are we, is this something that we need to make sure as marketers as well, that we're paying attention to?

Katy Pultz:

Absolutely. I think that, uh, I just, with the experience working with Telan team, it's just I know that they, part of their design, part of their differentiator is that they're. Designing for the experience and making sure that everybody has a unique experience mm-hmm. And is comfortable. And it's a blend of that. It's, it's making sure the community shines through and that sort of thing.

Elyssa Stephenson:

and from our client's perspective, I mean, it's 100% what, what they want and what they need in order to differentiate their properties. Um, they, they need, you know, a high level experience mm-hmm. In order for, you know, that Gen Z to choose, you know, their property instead of the one that's across the street. Right. People are buying the best experience with the most convenience, you know, that has the green space, you know, when they're wanting to, you know. Let down it has the wellness space. Mm-hmm. You know, when they're wanting to recover, uh, that gets into recovery, which is a big part of wellness. Where in the past it was more about, you know, fitness. Mm-hmm. But wellness is such a big element. Mm-hmm. Um, when I hear that, I think it's exactly, I mean, it's a huge opportunity. It's a big opportunity. To play into.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah. And I would even say, you know, some of the conferences that we've been to in the past couple years and, um, the places that those organizations have selected, I mean, we're seeing more of that too. The places that we're showing up to are creating more of those experiences. They do have those amenities that you're talking about. So I think we're kind of seeing that across the board.

Joe Pope:

In terms of design trends, how are you seeing that typically executed on, for example, in a clubhouse or, you know, a center of influence or things along those lines?

Paige Byrd:

It's interesting'cause, um. Whenever we are working and a lot of our clients have been coming, like they're fanatic when it comes to health and wellness, and so they'll send us a piece of equipment. They're like, I really want this Included in the program. We're like, okay, well this is really cool'cause it's, you know, this like major piece of equipment,$200,000. Like people would. To be very privileged, to be able to come lay in this machine for 20 minutes that apparently is gonna make them live for 500 years. So like when we get those pieces of information like that, right? There is a differentiator, right? Mm-hmm. Like you can say this, we have this in our facility. And just being able to create those vignettes and it's fun, right? Whenever you're going and if you're buying a membership or if you're doing something, you're like, this is gonna be able to become part of my normal routine. I don't wanna be able to do it with my community and my neighbors. And it's always fun to do something, in my opinion, like a weird and quirky. Mm-hmm. And so, not that everything is weird and quirky, but anything that's new, like you have a story to tell. It's Right. So you leave with a story to tell. Yeah. And then you're telling your friends, and then before you know it, everybody's there and you're just. Laying in these machines one after another.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. So wellness being a big trend. Is there any other big trends that you've kind of seen, especially across hospitality and master plan communities in terms of what you're, you know, you're being asked for or also driving as part of your engagement?

Elyssa Stephenson:

It's actually interesting. It's like this, it's, it's striking the balance between, it's, you know, not only are the Gen Zers wanting to, you know, blend business and travel, but also, you know, older, older generations are wanting to blend business and travel, and they wanna bring their families with them, and they want to have a place for their families to go while they're conducting business during the day. So it's like, you want the, it's like they want everything all in one. They want the exclusivity. You know, the private dining, you know, situation at night, they want things for their kids to be able to do during the day. And again, it presents this huge challenge because, you know, every new type of program programming that you come up with for, you know, for a family, for example, uh, it's a new rev revenue stream, you know, for that property, if it's executed well and if they have the onsite staff to be able to do it well. Uh, but different activities for, you know, every part of the family. Mm.

Joe Pope:

So Hilton was talking about that this is like the era of maximizing. Yes. If you were to take a stab, and I'm not gonna hold you to it, but it's always fun to look back at these things. What do you think the next era is gonna be?

Elyssa Stephenson:

I think that, um, the, the biggest thing that we're continuing to go into is, is recovery. I think especially with, you know, kind of our generation and older generations. Wellness and longevity and quality, quality of life is super, super important. And I think that the more people that are able to execute on that, well, maximalism is great.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Mm-hmm.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Uh, but you also need to have that holistic approach. And I think people that lean into the recovery aspect of things are gonna be a step ahead of the rest. Mm-hmm. It's like the more of us that become educated on. You know, the types of food that we're eating and how that actually makes you feel. You know, it's like there's this emphasis on we wanna be as productive as we can be. We wanna feel as good as we can. Mm-hmm. And the more that we can lean into those things, I think that's gonna continue to be a differentiator for people.

Katy Pultz:

Yeah. It's like the tie end of mental health.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Exactly. Yeah.

Paige Byrd:

And even food and beverage programming like you're seeing now, there's a little bit more emphasis on healthy options, but there are so many dietary restrictions in how people eat. You're gonna see more. And that can be difficult if you go out to eat to find something, especially if you're vegan. Um, I'm not, but my husband is, and going out to eat with him is challenging. Yeah. Um, and so I think that we'll start seeing that as becoming more normal, like normalized. Yeah.

Joe Pope:

Well, I, I appreciate you all sharing some of these insights. Uh, like we, we try to get into our pivotal stories and talk specifically how trends and other elements are going and, and knowing that both you and Hilton, two amazing brands had come up with the idea of bringing that type of content to the marketplace. Um, we thought it was a really good opportunity to talk it through, but we also have something else planned for you all because this is spiraling you up. We do not do boring q and a, we play games, we also have crafts, uh, and thank you for not picking up your papers yet, but we will allow you to do so. It's really

Elyssa Stephenson:

hard. It's been

Joe Pope:

nice, it's been staring at you this whole time. Uh, but yo uh, for those of you who are unfamiliar with the podcast, like I was just, uh, I was just saying when we have folks on, or even just one, that's just us, uh, along with Austin, we miss you. Austin. Wish you could be here.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Heart.

Joe Pope:

Uh, when we get together, we like to gamify a discussion because who wants to listen to another boring Business to business podcast?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Not us.

Joe Pope:

So let's have some fun while we're at it. Uh, today we're gonna play a game. It's called Date Mary Dump. You might know of it from other ways of describing the game of which are a bit, uh, rated R in a sense, and how this would be described. And we are a PG 13 podcast. Uh, so what we're gonna do is we're gonna walk through a series of categories, uh, and each of these categories are going to have three prompts or basically scenarios or options. And, uh, as a group, uh, you get to do this individually, but the fun part about this is you all get to pick up one of these signs, and those signs all have options such as date, marry, and dump. Uh, and, and basically we'll give you those three options. We'll read'em back to you, and we want to see what you would choose based on the category as your choice. You must be ready to defend your choice. Not a problem.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

And once you've used, once you've used your choice, you can't use it again for that. So you can't, you cannot, you can't. Everything, you can't date everything or dump everything in a, you

Joe Pope:

can marry one, you not get to marry everything. Alright,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

so choose wisely.

Joe Pope:

That's right. So there are no right answers here. Yeah. We, we just want to see how this, uh, how this goes from there. And, and, uh.

Katy Pultz:

But there are wrong,

Joe Pope:

there is judgment, frankly, but there are answers. Uh, cool. So let the game begin. Uh, we're gonna start in the marketing and brand strategy space, but don't worry, we've got a few other categories that may get into some things that are better for y'all's. Okay. Subject matter expertise as well as a few fun workplace tropes.

Paige Byrd:

Okay.

Joe Pope:

Which will be, uh, which will be spread in. So, mayor Blanc, would you like to take the first one?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

One. Okay, so the first one, the category is gonna be thought leadership. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna read through the three options first, and then I will go back to the top and say the first one, and then that's when you'll flip your card. Okay. So, uh, option one is annual trends guide. So publishing an original premium thought leadership report or guide. Option two, strategic. Speaking engagements. So focusing resources only on securing key high visibility speaking slots, uh, at major industry conferences or podcasts, things like that. Um, or see or, and see, uh, a LinkedIn strategy. So having all senior partners actively posting daily, you know, personal insightful commentary, um, industry trends on. On social media. Okay. Okay. So those are the three choices. So going back to the top, and this is where you'll flip your cards, uh, annual trends guide.

Joe Pope:

Are we marrying, are we dumping, are we dating?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Oh. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. That's amazing. Right out of the gate.

Joe Pope:

Alright, so Katie, clearly, so fun, feels very, Katie fit, clearly feels very strong towards the idea of a downloadable piece of concept. So

Katy Pultz:

hard. That's

Elyssa Stephenson:

I, I, I

Katy Pultz:

almost love Mary.

Elyssa Stephenson:

I know.

Katy Pultz:

Well as, um, I do work for marketing agency. I like the fact that this thing will always be there for you.

Joe Pope:

There we go.

Katy Pultz:

You can

Joe Pope:

like a good,

Katy Pultz:

use it however you like. Yeah, yeah. You know, um, just, you know, get some good miles out of it, you know? Mm-hmm. It's always gonna be there for you and you can just, you know, keeps things exciting and it's evergreen content. There

Elyssa Stephenson:

we go. I love it. And you can use it in so many different ways. Yeah. Okay. So I said date this one because I'm, I, I feel really strongly about my other two answers. Okay. Um. But I, I really like the fact that it can be repurposed in so many different ways. Mm-hmm. And case in point, uh, we just did our, uh, our first trends guidebook, and we've already printed it. We're handing it out in face-to-face events. We've gotten four blogs out of it. We're putting it on social, it's on our website. We're sending it to clients. It's like, great.

Joe Pope:

Why are we dumping Paige?

Paige Byrd:

Well, because they, I wouldn't, don't really wanna dump any of it. Well, we

Joe Pope:

can't make this easy.

Paige Byrd:

I know. Well, the other one I was gonna dump the. Well, I guess I can't give away what my other answer would be.

Joe Pope:

You can tell it when we get there.

Paige Byrd:

Okay. So I was gonna dump another one, and then you guys said one key word and I was like, well, I can't dump that, because now everybody's saying this is what we need to be doing in the future and moving forward, so, okay. I really, I don't wanna dump any of it. That's, yeah,

Joe Pope:

you, you might see a theme across these. I was gonna say these categories.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

I, some of these are, they're pretty tough as I was reading through them

Paige Byrd:

all. So next, that's why we're a good, well-rounded team because we all have a different perspective. Right. That's

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

just like the ring on my,

Paige Byrd:

that's nice. That's a big diamond. That's super cute.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Okay, so what are our cards for strategic speaking engagements?

Katy Pultz:

This is easy for me.

Joe Pope:

Okay.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Okay.

Joe Pope:

I had a feeling we'll start with you, Paige, but I had a feeling that that one was gonna fall in the middle for you, but let's, let's hear a little bit more about it.

Paige Byrd:

Well, you guys said podcast.

Joe Pope:

Yes, in there does not necessarily need to be in person.

Paige Byrd:

Oh. And so with the video and the podcasting, I was like, well, that's gonna live forever, like the trend book, but it's more repetitive. It's in everybody's face more often, and they really get to know you and you get to meet like, I don't know, you could. It seemed like that was, if it was just. Speaking engagements, I would've dumped it.

Joe Pope:

It's a clear

Paige Byrd:

dump, but this was like the podcast comment. I was like, okay, well we can't dump that.

Elyssa Stephenson:

I missed the podcast. And you can transcript it and use it for SEO.

Joe Pope:

That's

Elyssa Stephenson:

correct.

Joe Pope:

Yes. Yeah.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Can I change my, can

Katy Pultz:

I change my previous answer? It's

Joe Pope:

lock and stone.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Okay.

Joe Pope:

Okay. You go.

Katy Pultz:

Um, mine comes from more just a personal thing. I just don't prefer speaking. I'd rather put pen to paper writing. So mine is. I mean, I think you guys both knew I was gonna say that,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

and yet you're still so good at it when you do it. Oh, thank deal.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah. So I didn't hear the podcasting, um, component. Otherwise I would've probably changed my answer. So, oh, I'm gonna listen really carefully for this. This

Katy Pultz:

is a hard game

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

people. All right, well, we'll move straight to, uh, the third option then. So, LinkedIn strategy.

Paige Byrd:

Well, did I start with this one or do you wanna go first?

Elyssa Stephenson:

Um, I'm married this one because, um, it's where everybody is all the time.

Paige Byrd:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Elyssa Stephenson:

And if we're trying to expand visibility as one of our top goals, uh, then we need to be where everybody is all the time.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you were talking about leadership really being involved and helping us become more visible and I just thought as a platform, because it is LinkedIn, it was probably, I mean, we've been working on it, we've seen the fruit.

Joe Pope:

Mm-hmm.

Paige Byrd:

And it's something we need to come, like we have to marry it.

Joe Pope:

Yeah, we're getting married to and, and, and I, I, I pretty much, Kate, I can understand because of what you chose as Mary, why this is date, but go ahead and share your thoughts.

Katy Pultz:

No, actually I think that I need this one from the very beginning. Yeah. Just because I, I mean, I. Think networking on LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. And it's like dating in la. Okay. And it's, it's always changing. Yeah. Sometimes it stinks. Yeah. Sometimes it's, you know, good. So, you know. There you go.

Joe Pope:

I know, I know. Very

Katy Pultz:

literal

Paige Byrd:

of mine.

Joe Pope:

This is why you had to be prepared to defend your answers. Uh, I know that we recently did a LinkedIn trading with you all as well. Uh, our colleague Austin, who is uh, our, our third and sadly missed co-host from this podcast. Uh, and, uh, your y'all's colleague, Jim, wrote a very nice message about just kind of the value of being able to make the connections of how to use that platform Yeah. Mm-hmm. Moving forward. And you're right, it is kind of a, everyone's there, it's a necessary evil. Mm-hmm. Uh, in some ways

Paige Byrd:

that is so true. Yeah.

Joe Pope:

So having a strategy is how you beat it.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah.

Joe Pope:

And you, uh, and you're successful.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah. Yep.

Joe Pope:

All

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

right. All right. Let's, let's move on. We're moving on. This is a fun one. Okay, good. Um, all right. Aesthetic annoyances is the, uh, is the category. So first option, that classic black and white photo of a lone mountain climber with the word dedication.

Katy Pultz:

Ah,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

okay. Option B, walls made of reclaimed barnwood and perfectly painted exposed HVAC duct work in an office that is neither a barn. No. A factory or sea. Or sea? Massive plastic. Faux fiddle leaf. Fig tree. Wow, that's, that was a mouth.

Joe Pope:

I'm sorry. I got mean in some of these.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Scattered all over the office space.

Joe Pope:

Okay. Fig trees. Uh, all right, so let's start back up at the top. Dedication.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Dedication.

Paige Byrd:

And they're fake. They're faux fiddle.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Faux fiddle. Fiddle.

Joe Pope:

Yes. The fig trees are fake. They're not real fake. Uh, so let's start at the top. Okay.

Paige Byrd:

This

Joe Pope:

is, we're talking about the climber, the motivational poster. You know, you've seen it in, uh, every, um, boomer's office space.

Elyssa Stephenson:

I'm like, oh gosh. It's only because the other two answers are, are so bad, bad one that I have to dump. I

Paige Byrd:

don't even, this is not a good

Elyssa Stephenson:

dating pool that we have.

Joe Pope:

Oh, keep, yes. Okay. Because you did not dump it. You get to go first. Dude.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Well

Joe Pope:

make Make it so I feel like I can date the mountain climber.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Okay. The mountain climber. Oh my god. Has dedication. He's inspiring.

Paige Byrd:

I'm done. Move on next.

Joe Pope:

Alright, now that we're done, uh, the two of you with the dumps, let's go ahead and understand why this was the worst of the three options.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Oh, just kind of corn.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah. I mean, none of them were good. Something had to go down and that was it.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

The mountain climber's going down first

Paige Byrd:

hard. That

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

was

Joe Pope:

it. Sorry. Mountain climber.

Paige Byrd:

I think it's been maybe'cause it's the worst thing that's been around the longest. So it's like this is a cycle. Like let's get that dude out of it and then everything else to fall suit.

Joe Pope:

Okay.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah. All right. Let's go to our next one then. Uh, the walls of, uh, reclaimed barnwood, the exposed HVAC duct work. We're not in a barn, we're not in a factory.

Paige Byrd:

I, I mean, of all the things, I mean, I guess I'm gonna, I'm marry the fake

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

farmer. Three for three,

Joe Pope:

sell me on exposed HVAC duct work.

Paige Byrd:

Well, sometimes you can't help having exposed HVAC duct work, what should say, so you just gotta deal with the hand your dealt right.

Joe Pope:

All right.

Paige Byrd:

So a lot of those, like it is what it is.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah, I like the casual atmosphere.

Joe Pope:

Okay? Mm-hmm. The client, the client just wants to bring the farm to their middle of the city

Paige Byrd:

experience. Just want it to be completely comfortable, casual.

Joe Pope:

Okay.

Elyssa Stephenson:

And

Paige Byrd:

wear your plaid

Elyssa Stephenson:

and

Paige Byrd:

cost effective,

Elyssa Stephenson:

you

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

fit right in.

Joe Pope:

Oh, sure.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

And I mean, to be fair, we've seen a couple breweries that kind of do that bit and

Joe Pope:

yeah.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

It's pretty legit.

Joe Pope:

You can have a nice experience. You can have

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

a

nice

Joe Pope:

experience. That's that's been the theme of this podcast and the experience. Okay. I'm

Katy Pultz:

just gonna go with my clients here. Let them speak for this one. There you go. I mean, I know them very well.

Joe Pope:

You didn't cheat though. You just showed. You just showed us that one because you knew.

Katy Pultz:

No, I, I don't know. Mostly'cause I didn't know what to do with the other one, so.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yep. All right. As I

Joe Pope:

do now, yeah. Number three,

Elyssa Stephenson:

fake fig. The fake fig. We don't like fake anything in this world. Everything has to be real and authentic.

Joe Pope:

Okay. Okay.

Paige Byrd:

What did you put? Oh, you put, dumped.

Joe Pope:

She said that.

Paige Byrd:

Okay.

Joe Pope:

Because she's, she is, she's all real.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah. Um, I mean, I've seen some faux plants done very well.

Elyssa Stephenson:

That's true.

Paige Byrd:

Depending on how much you pay for'em.

Joe Pope:

And at that point, we probably could have just gotten a real plan anyways.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah. Those things hard to keep alive. The maintenance

Katy Pultz:

go in with the literal interpretation here. Okay. You got it. You're experimenting. So,

Joe Pope:

okay.

Katy Pultz:

Sometimes you're experimenting with fake, fake plans, figs

Elyssa Stephenson:

for the sake of experimentation.

Joe Pope:

Yes. That makes sense.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Okay. Okay. All right, we're moving right along then. Next category is website and digital experience. So first option design portfolio. So a library of your project work, high quality photography videos, that sort of thing. Option two, gated content libraries. So putting all premium, uh, thought leadership things, be behind a form fill to capture lead information. And then the third option is dedicated, SEO or technical audit. So conducting a deep dive audit to fix all your technical errors. Uh, improve site speed, uh, strategic backlink profile, things like that.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Feeling very confident.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Okay. All right. We're gonna start them back at the top. Good for

Elyssa Stephenson:

you.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Design portfolio. How are we, how are we looking?

Joe Pope:

Two quick turns and

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

oh, another three for three.

Joe Pope:

Why are we marrying our design portfolio? Did we get,

Elyssa Stephenson:

did we get this wrong?

Joe Pope:

No, I actually think that all three options are there. I are the wrong

Elyssa Stephenson:

answers. Okay.

Joe Pope:

That's right. Good. Good point. There are no wrong answers in this, in this game, but I think for your industry, this is the correct,

Katy Pultz:

for sure. Go ahead. That was, that was my answer. So as you know. We're a EC. This is the biggest, I mean, a lot of times, like in, uh, in search project pages are the number one thing that's popping up for, for our clients. So it's important to have, I mean, I can't even think about how many architects I've worked with where, you know, they're looking at their websites and saying, we need bigger images, bigger photos, you know, so that they can really see the work and here's a place to do it.

Elyssa Stephenson:

So, yeah, I would only add that we have learned. Based on hinges research over all these years, the number one thing that, um, our clients buy is expertise. And how do you prove it? How do you prove your expertise? That, and that's with your design portfolio

Paige Byrd:

and a picture is worth a thousand words. The video is worth 10,000 words. There we go. I mean, people, they once see the eye candy, like they get something, they're like, that's it. Sold. Moving on. Done.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. We are, we're big believers in video becoming more and more prevalent. Not just, I mean, your industry's been the forefront of that, but uh, across other industries as well. The 10,000 word idea of this, uh, is, is super important. And yes, we can in fact use videos to make what accountants do more. Interesting.

Elyssa Stephenson:

I love that. Yeah, I've seen it.

Joe Pope:

It's happening.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

All right. Gated content library.

Joe Pope:

Okay. Okay.

Katy Pultz:

I missed the word gated, but what I'm thinking here is just thought leadership. Mm-hmm. So to me, get out there, experiment with it. You know, a lot of firms might not be there yet. They're just posting, you know, promotional news. Um, but you know, they want to be thought leaders. They want to start posting more educational content, so try it. It's not as hard as you think.

Paige Byrd:

Mm-hmm.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Okay. Now I'm totally suck guessing my answer, but what I will say is people want to engage with you for free without it feeling like it costs them anything. Mm-hmm. However, we are doing gated strategy for our guidebook, which is working well'cause we're getting top of funnel leads. Um, but not everything needs to be gated. That's kind of where I'm, I'm going. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Education based content needs to flow freely.

Paige Byrd:

I agree.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. I mean, putting it behind a gate, of course, does deny it from being easy and accessible. It is the requirement to somebody who has to give up something, usually an email. Mm-hmm. Uh, but as a filter for generating visibility, it also does the added benefit of removing out the types of conversations you don't want to have. That's a very actor, uh, which is why the marketer in the room. It started to think along those lines as how it's, how it's specifically done, but, uh, let's, let's talk that last, what was the last option?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Uh, dedicated SEO and technical audit.

Joe Pope:

Sure.

Paige Byrd:

Oh, wow. Okay.

Joe Pope:

Alright. Let's hear why we're dating this one.

Paige Byrd:

I mean. Like I said, I don't wanna lose any of them, but for me, when I hear technical, all I can think of, if a website isn't working correctly, then what's the point? Sure. Right. So like it's gotta be functioning. That's something you gotta keep, keep a pulse on. Yep. So that was really the reason for my answer.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah. And it informs your strategy. So, um, keeping pace with that. And that's why we have our, uh, biweekly check-ins. Mm-hmm. To actually look at what's happening technically. So it will inform. Our continued strategy.

Katy Pultz:

Mm-hmm.

Joe Pope:

All right. Katie, how can you explain? I don't have a

Elyssa Stephenson:

very good answer for this one.

Katy Pultz:

It's mostly just because I picked the other two, but, um, I think, you know, in order to dump it, you have to date it first. Oh, right. So do it one time and then get out of there.

Joe Pope:

All right. So we're thinking, okay. You're thinking because of the exceptional websites we build, the SEO will last longer.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah.

Joe Pope:

All right.

Katy Pultz:

Yeah,

Joe Pope:

that was,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

that was like a shameless product. Nice little workaround. You did there.

Katy Pultz:

Just thought of it.

Joe Pope:

Uh, let's keep it going.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

All right. So, uh, the category is unfortunate workplace communications. So option one, getting multiple one sentence emails instead of one cohesive thought. Uh, option two, the constant use of meaningless buzzwords in meetings. And option three, getting an urgent text message about a non-urgent topic on a Friday evening.

Joe Pope:

Oh, wow. Man, that's really tough. That is tough. Let's start with the one sentence email. And, and e's already broken her engagement ring too. Oh, there, there, there

Paige Byrd:

we go.

Joe Pope:

You'll just have to hold it. We can do some tape or you can put it on, yeah. Two

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

RIP crafts.

Joe Pope:

All right. So we're okay. Basically with getting one sentence email,

Paige Byrd:

I mean, not okay with it, but I'd rather get a one sentence email than like the non-urgent, urgent text on a Friday night. Yeah, let's.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Can we

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

speak to

Elyssa Stephenson:

that one real quick and just say

Joe Pope:

dump? See, we, we just say it right now. We are dumping.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Where's that

Joe Pope:

one? Okay. Are you, are you gonna join them? Gonna, yeah.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

I was gonna dump, dump

Joe Pope:

the non-urgent Friday, you

know?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah. None of that. None of that, which leaves the constant use of meaningless buzzwords in meetings.

Elyssa Stephenson:

I actually would've married this one. Because I do that all the time.

Paige Byrd:

I do the one, the one sentence emails you

Elyssa Stephenson:

do. I'm like,

Paige Byrd:

oh crap. It's in, it's inducing. It's the rest of my stream of consciousness coming to you in another email. Yes,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

yes. I love it. All right, next topic. Uh, company culture initiatives. So option one, flexible schedule. So formalizing and committing to a flexible work policy that allows employees to choose where and when they work best. Uh, option two, internal mentorship program. So program pairing, senior leaders with junior staff or career development. Uh, and then option three, high value social events. So committing budget to high quality, memorable in-person social events.

Paige Byrd:

It's really hard. It is hard. What was the first one again?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Flexible

Joe Pope:

flex

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

sketch. Yeah.

Paige Byrd:

Okay. I got my, I'm

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

locked in. Like be and breathes.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. We'll breathe it.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yep. All right.

Paige Byrd:

First

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

one.

Paige Byrd:

First

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

one. First one.

Joe Pope:

Yeah.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yep.

Joe Pope:

I, I think this just ties really well into what people are looking for now, specifically

Elyssa Stephenson:

when they travel and

Joe Pope:

how they work.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. And then there's just so much blending of what that looks like. We had a, um, episode a few weeks back. Uh, that talked about the never ending workday and the fact that people are in a sense working whenever and wherever, uh, as part of just their day-to-day basis and how some might be taking that a bit too far severance style, right? Where you're just completely disassociate yourself. But others that have really found a great balance mm-hmm. Right where they can. Say, all right, it's the middle of the day. I don't have any client work. I'm gonna take my dog for a mile long walk. Mm-hmm. Something along those lines.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah.

Joe Pope:

So I think the non-negotiable nature of that is, is big. And we've got two owners of a business who are fully bought in on it. Yeah. It shows you that those types of cultures exist.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah. We know our team. This is the most valuable thing for them. It, yeah. And um, I mean, you hire professionals for a reason, right. I mean, they should be able to manage.

Joe Pope:

Alright, so let's talk about mentorships. Mm-hmm. Where are we there? Ooh,

Katy Pultz:

this is a hard one.

Joe Pope:

Don't cheat.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Well, I was

Katy Pultz:

gonna do it anyway. I was gonna do it anyway. I'm not gonna dump it.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. I know you guys are big on working within your junior team members and so forth and bringing'em up. Let's talk a little bit about that, though.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Well, and the senior team members can really benefit from the juniors. Love that. It's multi-generational learning. It's totally, yeah, it's totally two sided. Cool. Um, and growth and learning. It comes from all places. Yeah. I love that. And you gotta keep. Paying it forward.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah. And we have so many people that have like varying expertise depending on what they've done. Like being able to work with different team members gives you, like, you glean so much from what their past experience is. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And being an architecture designer, like yeah, you graduate school and you have the tools to go out there and start work, but you really don't know anything. No. Right. Like working with people, listening to all the conversations and I will be grateful my entire life. For the people that took me under their wing. They didn't have to, there wasn't even anything formalized. They just cared.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah. Right.

Paige Byrd:

And that's like the culture, like create the culture that cares. Mm-hmm. That they don't have to have a title to say, you know what, I'm gonna bring her up and I'm gonna teach her everything that I can. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna watch her kill a meeting on her own in the next two years. Like, she's gonna own it. Yeah. There's a

Elyssa Stephenson:

few things. Feel better than that. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Katy Pultz:

Uh. With what E said. I think it goes both ways. And I mean, that's one of the reasons why I love working at Hinge so much is the relationships and just learning from everyone who works there.

Joe Pope:

Yeah.

Katy Pultz:

I think everybody has a different, uh, story, different experience, different skillset. Mm-hmm. It's just, you know, makes her a great job.

Joe Pope:

Yeah, absolutely. All right, so it was tough obviously, but it seems like all of us are going to dump high value social events.

Katy Pultz:

Mm-hmm.

Joe Pope:

Sell me on dumping high value social events.

Elyssa Stephenson:

How about I'll you go,

Joe Pope:

oh, she's got, I got it. Take,

Elyssa Stephenson:

take it Katie.

Katy Pultz:

High value social events. So maybe it's a big networking event and you're more the type that does not like to get out there and it's it exhaust. I was just having a conversation with Paige

Paige Byrd:

about

Katy Pultz:

old job. I used to be at like, you know, trade shows for a week and you'd have to network all day and then at night go out to these big social networking events and just a lot of it and get tired. We've

Elyssa Stephenson:

all done it. Yeah,

Katy Pultz:

I don't really wanna dump them. So, yeah,

Elyssa Stephenson:

I'll say this is just, it's like the way of the world. It's like everybody's set up for flexibility and then when you, you know, it's like you stop and tell everybody, you have to be at this place, at this time for this long, uh, I mean, it's, it's, it's hard because we don't get as much like this as what we used to. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, it's like if you want flexibility, you, you've gotta maintain. You know, flexibility for people high, high value events are expensive.

Joe Pope:

Yeah.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Uh, and they blow holes in people's schedules. Mm-hmm. And so I think the constant challenge that we're facing is how do we continue to. Build community, like legitimate community in our firm, uh, without, you know, these high value social events and we're not dumping them clearly. We just had one yesterday. Instead of doing four or five of those a year, maybe one or two.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. Yeah. And really making sure you're maximizing the entire experience. Yes,

Elyssa Stephenson:

100%.

Joe Pope:

I, I think that, uh. I had a feeling that you all, that the dump was gonna end up being that one. But I think honestly, the biggest fact of it is that, and like the Hilton Trend report talked through, it's, if you do it right, people love it.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yes.

Joe Pope:

If you don't do it right,

Elyssa Stephenson:

people hate it.

Joe Pope:

People hate it. They do. And therefore there's a lot of, it's a

Elyssa Stephenson:

burden instead of a blessing.

Joe Pope:

Right. Whereas some of these other things, it's like flexibility. It's, it's flexibility. Right. And so forth. So. Cool. So I think would stick on that flexibility.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Okay.

Joe Pope:

Theme for this next one.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Next category is remote slash hybrid work quirks. So option one, beginning every zoom or teams call with a discussion about the weather. Option two, commuting to the office just to talk on zooms and teams all day. Um, or option three, having to furnish two separate workspaces.

Joe Pope:

All right. We're talking weather and what are we doing with weather?

Paige Byrd:

Okay. The other two again are amazing.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah. Commuting to the office just to end up talking to zoom, like Zoom and team meetings all day, or having to furnish two separate workspaces. That was two and three.

Joe Pope:

All right. So ease dating the weather.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yes. I think you need to make time and space for people to be who they are. And if you got somebody that really likes the weather, let'em talk. The weather,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

literally the biggest weather. Weather. The weather bag.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Meteorologist and another life.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

I'm sure.

Joe Pope:

All right, the Mary's, let's hear about it. Oh,

Katy Pultz:

uh, I said Mary because. You know, I can't believe I'm still bringing up COVID, but, uh, pre COVID, this is what we did.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Mm.

Katy Pultz:

Uh, you know, we. A lot, some of us would commute into the office and we'd,'cause all of our clients were national, international, and we'd, we'd be hopping on calls all the other day. So when it happened, we didn't really skip a beat with that one. Mm-hmm. And it just feels like

Joe Pope:

great, so's a small talk piece of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. It's

Katy Pultz:

gonna happen.

Paige Byrd:

Well, the same thing like coming into your conference room. You don't just sit down and get to it. Right. Right. Like, you're like, Hey, how, how was your weekend?

Katy Pultz:

Yeah,

Paige Byrd:

it's hot outside, right? Whatever. But I mean, it's the human part of what we do. You know,

Katy Pultz:

driving through this thunderstorm was really nice.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Okay. Alright. Commute into the office. Uh, was the second one. Uh,

Elyssa Stephenson:

to be on Zoom.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Be on Zoom calls all day.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah.

Paige Byrd:

What a waste of time.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah. Yeah. And then you feel like you're, Hey, I'm finally at the office and I can't even talk to anybody, and my door

Paige Byrd:

shut shut and my door shut for the whole day. That's the killer.

Elyssa Stephenson:

So it's, it's like a time killer and a motivation killer.

Paige Byrd:

Mm-hmm.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah. It All right. Furnishing two separate workspaces.

Paige Byrd:

I didn't really like furnishing things. Should have put that in Mary.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah.

Paige Byrd:

There

Katy Pultz:

we

Joe Pope:

go.

Katy Pultz:

Sorry.

Joe Pope:

Crap. The craft fell apart. Yeah, go ahead. Why we're dating this?

Katy Pultz:

I don't know. I think it sounds fun. I don't have a problem with this.

Elyssa Stephenson:

My answers are so easy. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, uh, plays to efficiency. If people are set up and they have a good home zone and then they have a good, an office zone, you, that would be the most

Paige Byrd:

best of both

Elyssa Stephenson:

worlds. Exactly. Exactly. And I think this is more and more gonna be the way of the future.

Paige Byrd:

Oh, that was a strong one. Yes. Yes. Good.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

All right. Last one category is branding. Uh, option one, new core messaging. So, uh, redefining the firm's specific market niche positioning and unique value proposition based on deep research. Option two, visual identity refresh. So a refresh of the logo, the color palette, typography, uh, image library, that sort of thing. Um, and then client perception research as option three. So conducting independent qualitative interviews. Um, to understand the true perception out of your brand.

Joe Pope:

Good luck. I

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

got this. Oh my gosh.

Paige Byrd:

Okay. What

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

was the first one again? Uh, new core messaging

Katy Pultz:

Okay, so the first one's positioning. Second one is

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

visual. Visual identity. Visual

Katy Pultz:

identity,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

and then the client perception research. I know when I saw this one, I was like, oh,

Katy Pultz:

it's really hard. This is really

Joe Pope:

hard. Say the best for last.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah, yeah. All right, so when you guys are ready, new core messaging we're gonna go through first. All right. Gosh, turn

Joe Pope:

it over.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Time's up.

Joe Pope:

Turn it over. You made her choice. Alright, we gotta start with the marketer. Let's hear it. Why are we dumping this?

Katy Pultz:

Oh wait, come

Paige Byrd:

back to me.

Joe Pope:

No.

Katy Pultz:

Um, mostly because it was hard to pick the other ones.

Joe Pope:

Okay.

Katy Pultz:

And, um, I still think there's a lot you can do. Apart from, you know, getting new messaging and, you know, there's just a lot, there's a lot of other things that you can focus on. Okay. If it's not this one. All

Joe Pope:

right, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll let that go.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Okay. Thank you. So I said date this one because the research little prelude is the one that I'm going to marry, uh, because it's the foundation. Mm-hmm. And, um, getting that core research from our clients, which I know is the second answer. Uh, it informs the core positioning, and I will say what unlocked a lot of our, our, uh, potential and what you guys have been able to do was us like doubling down and getting really serious about who we wanted to serve and how we were serving them, and cutting out everything else. It was tar, it's a part of targeting and yeah, I think it was really good for us as a leadership team to get really clear, uh, about that.

Paige Byrd:

Mm-hmm. What he said. That was

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

pretty well said. Yeah. Yeah. I have anything else to add to that. All right. So visual identity refresh. We're gonna go to next. This looks really hard.

Elyssa Stephenson:

I have to,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

oh, this is a fun one.

Joe Pope:

Ah, that one surprised me. So you, I know. That's very surprising.

Elyssa Stephenson:

I feel like I'm in the hot seat now. Um, I only dumped this one because I have to marry the other

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

one.

Joe Pope:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Elyssa Stephenson:

I think that what you said before, there's a lot that you can do with a targeted approach. Mm-hmm. And you can't, it's like, how do you have a visual. What informs your visual, you know, rebrand.

Paige Byrd:

That's true.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Mm-hmm.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

I love that you just said that. We did a pivotal story recently. Uh, we were talking about rebrands and like the Cracker Barrel and just how I listened to that actually. Yeah. And totally missing the mark because they didn't do, they

Elyssa Stephenson:

didn't do this

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Exactly.

Elyssa Stephenson:

And you can really screw, screw up. And

Joe Pope:

they

Elyssa Stephenson:

did.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

They

Joe Pope:

ignored it, which is even worse.

Elyssa Stephenson:

And they made people mad.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Yeah,

Elyssa Stephenson:

yeah.

Joe Pope:

On, on all sides.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. I mean, they united our divided country.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yes.

Joe Pope:

In one way, one fell smooth. It's just amazing.

Elyssa Stephenson:

And I loved what y'all said. It's like, um, who has eaten a Cracker Barrel since they were like this big, like, and probably a handful of times, but like the emotional response was insane. Mm-hmm. They didn't do their research or they didn't listen to it. Yeah. Yeah.

Katy Pultz:

And I, I do have to point out that I have heard ez she would marry the logo if she could. I do. It's not, it's only'cause she was presented with those choices.

Paige Byrd:

Yes. Like three impossible options. Yes. Yeah. Well, and I chose the Mary because we just went through this exercise and we saw what a profound difference it made whenever we updated our visuals in our marketing, our brand to actually, you know, align with our brand and the service that we provide. Yeah. That's something for me moving forward as a non-negotiable.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yes. Mm-hmm.

Katy Pultz:

I said date just because I think, you know, there's always time to refresh, you know, your visual identity and um, you know, it's never too late. You can always just sometimes. You know, brands are due for an overhaul and mm-hmm. So again, that experimentation.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And Ian Paige, when we were talking earlier, you talked about some of the reasons that drove you all to doing an additional refresh and as part of just the transitioning coming on board. So I, I agree with you, Katie. It's like that's, it's important, but maybe just a step below the mirror level.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

Mm-hmm.

Joe Pope:

All right. So

Mary-Blanche Kraemer:

client perception research.

Paige Byrd:

I mean, this is the guy, guy that you dump that you always wanna call back. Right? Like it's not

Katy Pultz:

Oh, nice.

Paige Byrd:

You know, it's, um, I mean, it's just, I don't know. I had to make a choice of something to dump, so this was it.

Joe Pope:

Well, you're calling him back, so,

Paige Byrd:

um, I'll call him back. You call, I know I made a mistake.

Joe Pope:

All right. Uh, you've already hinted quite a bit already about why you had to marry. But what's the, in a quick summary, what do you

Elyssa Stephenson:

think? That's where it starts. This is where it all starts. This is your foundation. You've gotta get the market feedback and then it informs both your visual and your strategy, your core, you know, foundation, your repositioning, and our awesome. All of what we've done together has been, because you guys nailed this for us.

Katy Pultz:

Number one, I don't think you guys would talk to me anymore if I picked anything but this,

Joe Pope:

especially because it's the brand. Yes.

Katy Pultz:

You noted. No, but I agree. It's, um, and you can find things out that you had no idea was ever even on your client's mind.

Elyssa Stephenson:

This, this is true

Katy Pultz:

when I, when I explain to people what Hinge does and you know, why I work there, this stuff, uh, the client perception research fascinates me. Mm-hmm. The idea of being able to talk directly to. Our clients clients and find out, you know, why they work with them, what makes them tick. Mm-hmm. I just think it's, it's like good guesses.

Elyssa Stephenson:

It's from the horse's mouth. Yeah. That's fascinating. Yeah.

Joe Pope:

Yeah. Our, our colleague Will Caley, another one of our managing directors, has a interesting way, he always talks about this research, but. The idea is that this research can really show you the entire life cycle of a relationship. And it goes all the way back to the dating phase. Like why would you even talk or interact with this person in the first place? Then why you get engaged, why you get married. Mm-hmm. And hopefully stay married as everything moves forward. Uh, but like we felt that that was a nice fitting way to. Wrap up this game. Thank you all for playing victim, I mean for joining us together. Uh, you, the insights I think were super valuable. It's gonna make for some fun cut up content as well. Uh, a special thank you to Teon team for hosting us today as well. Yeah, this was been amazing, uh, to get together. Why don't, can you guys share a little bit how somebody might wanna get in contact you would go about doing so?

Elyssa Stephenson:

Go to our website.

Paige Byrd:

Yeah, go to the website and click the contact us button.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yeah. And convert so that we can put you on our funnel. And then you'll get your, I'll give you

Paige Byrd:

a call that day.

Joe Pope:

And Katie, I know everybody can come find you on H'S website as well. And I know you're pretty active on LinkedIn. Yep.

Elyssa Stephenson:

Yes, definitely.

Joe Pope:

Great. Well, uh, for the Spiraling Up podcast, uh, I'm Joe Pope. This is Mary Blanche Kramer. And we thank everyone for joining us and listening in. If you enjoyed this content and you've stuck around this long, I thank you. Honestly, great engagement. YouTube loves it. The longer you stick around, so if you're still here right now, you are our favorites. But you could really cement the relationship by giving us a like, comment or follow. Uh, and if you are an audio only person, you missed out on this fantastic. Set up that we had today. Uh, and you can certainly go check out YouTube now to see what that looks like. But we love you on Apple and Spotify and all other platforms as well. Leave us, uh, leave us a rating. Give us some comments there. If you are interested in hearing other topics, uh, throw those in the comments or hit us up at podcast@hingemarketing.com. Thank you so much and we'll see you next time.