New Years Resolutions For Business Leaders

Every year, business leaders set ambitious resolutions—delegate more, lead better, work less, grow faster. And every year, most of those goals quietly disappear.

In this episode of Spiraling Up, the team sits down with Dr. Josh Elmore, organizational scientist and executive advisor, for a live coaching conversation on why leadership resolutions fail—and how high-performing executives create change that lasts.

Rather than relying on motivation or willpower, Josh helps the hosts unpack the systems, incentives, and behaviors that shape real leadership growth. Through candid coaching, the episode explores delegation traps, visibility challenges, burnout, and how leaders can shift from being “the fixer” to building resilient teams.

This episode covers:

• Why New Year’s leadership goals break down
• How to replace willpower with systems and structure
• The hidden costs of always being the go-to problem solver
• What sustainable leadership change actually looks like
• Practical ways to design accountability into your role

If you’re entering the new year with big leadership goals—or trying to recover momentum you’ve already lost—this conversation offers a smarter, more sustainable path forward.

Connect with Dr. Josh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshelmore1/
Learn more about Court Street Consulting: https://www.courtstreetconsulting.net/

Transcript

Austin McNair 0:00

My New Year's resolution, I need to delegate more. And I need to be more visible.

Joe Pope 0:05

And I have to stop fixing everyone's fucking problems.

Austin McNair 0:09

Today in our episode of Spiraling Up, we're gonna be talking with Dr. Josh Elmore, who is a organizational scientist, and Joe Mary Blanche and myself. We're gonna bring these New Year's resolutions Dr. Josh and we're gonna have him in a live coaching session. Walk through how we can become better leaders and accomplish our goals. In this episode, you're gonna be able to think about the way that Dr. Josh is coaching us through these, different New Year's resolutions. And you can think about your own resolutions as a marketing leader and say, What are you gonna look like a year from now? From listening to this episode, you're gonna be able to listen to how Dr. Josh walks us through these New Year's resolutions and think about your own resolutions and kind of build out a map. How are you gonna accomplish your goals to make you a better leader? Happy New Year's everyone. It's spiraling up with hinge. welcome everyone to spiraling Up the podcast for professional services marketers and leaders. My name is Austin, and as always, I am joined by my colleagues and co-hosts, Mary Blanche Kramer

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 1:16

Hey, Austin.

Austin McNair 1:18

and Joe Pope. What's up Joe?

Joe Pope 1:22

What's up buddy? I miss you already.

Austin McNair 1:24

I know, I know. It wasn't that long ago that the three of us were together in Richmond filming a couple of these episodes of spiraling Up together. I do miss you guys. I loved being in person. That was such a, such a fun experience. I.

Joe Pope 1:38

It was and early performance on an episode that we just dropped from that. Recording session is positive as well, so the viewers agree and they're hanging around duration wise, so I guess we need to do more live episodes. Are we coming down to Brazil

Austin McNair 1:54

You know, I want you to, I, that would be a, an excellent idea. I think Mary Blanche, between the two of you guys has been the more serious person about maybe coming down here and,

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 2:02

I'm trying to go to Brazil. I'm gonna learn to surf. We're gonna do someting. We're, we're gonna figure it out

Joe Pope 2:07

in that order? She's gonna

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 2:08

in In that order. Yes.

Joe Pope 2:10

maybe there might be a podcast.

Austin McNair 2:12

Well, I have an idea, uh, because today's episode is all about our professional New Year's resolutions. Maybe the two of you guys need to make a resolution that, uh, the Brazil thing is gonna be a real idea this year or, you know, ear early next year. But,

Joe Pope 2:25

me with a good time brother.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 2:26

here for it.

Austin McNair 2:28

Well, hey, I, I don't wanna delay too, too long here because, uh, our conversation, today with Dr. Josh Elmore, um, is super insightful. I mean, I think what our listeners can expect, he takes us through a live coaching call here. we, we did this completely. and as authentically as possible, he had us from the beginning say, map out what is your New Year's resolution professionally? what is it really? Don't pr no pretending on the podcast. and then he is going to do a live coaching call with us through this. And so, I think our listeners are gonna get a lot out of it, and it was a really fun conversation. So guys, without further ado, let's turn to our conversation with Dr. Josh. All right, everyone. Well, we are honored to welcome to the podcast Dr. Josh Elmore. Dr. Josh is an organizational scientist, founder of Court Street Consulting and the host of the Land and Lead podcast that everyone should go and check out with a PhD from Columbia, he applies scientific rigor to the human side of business, helping leaders navigate complex transitions and strengthen their teams. Josh advises executives facilitates team development and orients organizations through sustainable change, drawing on deep expertise from startups to Fortune five hundreds. His work ensures that leaders don't just land, but that they lead with clarity and conviction. Josh, welcome to the Spiraling Up Podcast.

Josh Elmore 3:54

Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here with y'all and, uh, to get into the conversation today.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 4:00

Yeah, Josh, we're thrilled to have you. Um, can you start by just telling us a little bit more about what it means to be an organizational scientist?

Josh Elmore 4:06

Yeah, so, my background and I have a PhD in organizational psychology and I think about organizations kind of from. You know, psychology, anthropology, systems, uh, many different fields of kind of influence. And I like the word scientist because it connotes research backed evidence-based work. but also, organizational, you know, that's the thing we use all the time. So it's practical. I work with leaders every day. We talk about, um, the challenges that they're facing and, and working through as it relates to, um, starting new roles, standing up their teams, getting their organiza organizations, arranged in a way that's going to help them accelerate towards their kind of next stage. And I do all of that from a foundation of science. Um, and I like to use the word organization scientist because, we're not working in the abstract. We're working with principles that have worked. For, many, many, decades, probably since 19, 19 when Frederick Winslow Taylor did the first kind of, time in motion studies in a factory setting. so I pull on, you know, things from the books behind me, that kind of hundred and plus year span of, of thinking, to help my clients think, more strategically about, the way that they do their, organization practice, uh, and, and lead their systems. So, yeah,

Joe Pope 5:27

Pulling a book from 1919 is a straight up jeopardy level answer there, Josh.

Josh Elmore 5:33

well, it's a pretty short book, so, uh, uh, anyone to read. Uh, and it's great, you know, it's, it's kind of, um, it's nice to know where, where your thinking comes from.

Joe Pope 5:42

Sure. Well, this is, it's certainly a field that has a lot of crossover into both personal and professional spaces. Right. one thing that really resonated with us, and, and I know Josh, we've, you and I have been chatting for years on and off in, in a variety of ways, but I think one synergy that you have with us at, at Hinge is that Hinge is, founding partner was a clinical psychology PhD as well. And Hinge brings this big mindset towards behavioral research into how buyers make decisions in professional services. Uh, and so kind of looking at it from, uh, our perspective with buyers decision making, things along those lines, and your perspective with how we make change happen or how we are successful as leaders. I think there's a lot of great connections there. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of the research that you've been doing and then how that's translated to a podcast, as I know that that's an initiative that you've really rolled out strongly in the last year or so.

Josh Elmore 6:33

my practice has really evolved, uh, over the past couple years. What's tended to happen is a lot of my clients are at the beginning stages of starting a new role, and I've kind of, found myself, over the course of, of these past couple years, advising in those circumstances and, and looking for resources for my clients to kind of leverage, and to guide them in those moments. And I found that the, the resources are great, but they're somewhat lacking. And what I really thought would be helpful is having a set of peer experiences. What are other presidents or general managers or CEOs doing when they start their new role? And so I started the Land and Lead podcast because it's a storytelling platform for other leaders to hear, the circumstances they're in, you know, there's probably 10 or 15 really critical circumstances that play a role in when you're coming into a new, high stakes role. Is, you know, what does your team look like? What does the situation in the organization, is it a turnaround situation? Is it kind of sustaining success? And as you get the lay of the land, how do you navigate those dynamics? I've been talking with folks that are seven years into role, you know, a year into role, seven months into role. And so what does it look like at these different stages? What are you doing right now? Are you pursuing change? Um, given the change that you've pursued? How has it gone? and that's a lot of where my mind's at right now is, gathering those stories, pulling them out, and getting, more resources from my clients to, chew on and, and, and hear from how other folks are doing it.

Austin McNair 8:02

And Josh for those reasons. That's, that's why you came to mind when we started, uh, brainstorming this episode. So, you know, we're always looking forward when we're planning out the Spiraling Up podcast and, whenever you think about New Year's o oftentimes you think about New Year's resolutions. but, you know, the, classic, narrative around New Year's resolutions, right, Josh, is that by, right around the time when this, this episode drops end of January, maybe beginning of February, people start to kind of slack and slide on those, those resolutions and the motivation that was so fresh and exciting there at the beginning. and they didn't create, you know, something sustainable and practical. So, you being the kind of perfect, coach for us in kind of today's episode where, the three of us, have planned out. A resolution that we have, like a leadership forward resolution for us in our roles at Hinge. we've picked things that I think everybody will be able to relate to. But Josh, what we're hoping we could do today in our time is to just kind of bring your coaching to life, like live here on the podcast, and as we share kind of some of our leadership resolutions how do we make it past, you know, just the first, uh, burst of energy and motivation?

Joe Pope 9:13

we are looking for you to be the one that helps keep us in the gym, Josh, after we've spent all that money on that fancy membership, and it was a real solid two to three weeks. But boy, now that we actually have to keep doing it, it's very challenging.

Josh Elmore 9:26

yeah, I'm happy to be helpful and, uh, you know, be a thought partner here.

Joe Pope 9:31

Brilliant. Well, I, I think it's ladies first, right? Did we decide Mary Blanc was gonna lead us off?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 9:35

uh, one of my big goals for this year is to try and accelerate my path to be more of a visible expert for Hinge. Um, it's kind of a journey I've been on for Yeah. Visible expert. Um, so that's a, a journey I've kind of been on for a little bit now. this year. And then on the personal side, I live in, in Richmond, Virginia. And, the Monument 10 K is, a big, event every year. Always wanted to run in it. and I'm, you know, I can bust out a 5K at any time, but, um, I haven't ever really trained for anything beyond, uh, a 10 K. And so I've been out of the, the running game for a little bit, but it's, it's something that I've always found a lot of joy in. and just with busy life isn't something that I've really been able to focus on.

Josh Elmore 10:17

All right., So, Professional, uh, visible growth, and then also growth in your ability to kind of go the, go the distance.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 10:25

that's great.

Josh Elmore 10:25

Okay. so where do you wanna start?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 10:28

why don't we start, do you wanna start with the visible expert side? I think that's high on mine, high on my mind.

Josh Elmore 10:33

Yeah, yeah. Visible expert. So, uh, how long have you been doing it?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 10:37

Well, so I would say my journey in doing this started when I, uh, became a partner at Hinge, uh, a few years ago. Um, and that's right around, And kind of once I had moved into that, I was kind of thinking, what's next for me? so one of the first things I decided, which was another sub goal of mine, was to go back to school to get my MBA. So that started, in 2024. Um, and I'll graduate with my MBA this summer. So that piece of the goal is, is almost done. So my journey really started there. and then from there it was, I'm learning these, new things, applying them to the business, um, how can I, be more visible to our audience? And that's around the time that the marketing team, primarily Austin and Joe were talking about this idea of starting our, our podcast. Uh, so they kind of presented me with, you know, we'd, you know, love for you to be part of it. We're gonna do a, you know, a three co-host type format, You know, I just kind of jumped in both feet first. I'd never, I had never really done anything like this. and we've had a whole lot of fun doing it. Um, so that's kind of my first dipping the toe into, starting to do more of that. Speaking. then towards the end of last year, uh, we decided the three of us that, you know, we were gonna start pitching ourselves for more speaking engagements. Uh, so we put some effort towards that. Um, and each of us actually have landed, some speaking engagements for 2026. Joe and I are gonna be speaking at SERC, uh, the Southeast Regional Conference for SMPS. Uh, in March in Norfolk. And so that'll be my first, true, speaking engagement at a conference.

Josh Elmore 12:05

Well, so it sounds like you've been doing quite a bit, and you have a lot of catalysts, to accelerate you through, uh, the visible expert, right? So managing partners, so promotion, the, MBA, so, uh, you know, professional promotion, right? Uh, from the learning side and, then also, uh, the opportunities, right? So spiraling up podcast, and speaking engagements. So it sounds like there's already kind of. A, propellant, right? So you have the, the professional development, pieces, and then the opportunity pieces that are going in there. How are you thinking about, bridging those and leveraging those kind of, two core elements?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 12:42

Well, it's interesting you say that. So the first, leverage the podcast actually to, gain that first speaking engagement. So our first, speaking engagement that we're doing in March actually has a podcast theme to it. So we're actually gonna be interviewing a subject matter expert on stage, uh, for a 60 minute slot. So it's kind of as you use like the, the word bridge. It's, it is kind of like that perfect segue from, the podcast essentially in this format to doing a live format. So something that I feel like will come fairly naturally after doing, you know, 20 something episodes that we've done, so far. Um, and then taking that to the stage. so that's kind of how I'm bridging those two. And then hoping that's a jumping off point to then start doing my own, speaking on, on different topics.

Josh Elmore 13:21

what would you say is your goal for 2026 as it relates to being a visible expert? Like the core goal? Maybe

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 13:27

I'd like to, pitch myself, for more speaking engagements, uh, so branching outside of, the podcast, to do that. And then I think also just looking for other opportunities to speak on other podcasts and in different formats, smaller formats that are different, partnerships. We, uh, do a number, we host a number of events, for our partnerships outside of just attending the conferences. So there's lots of opportunities to, you know, speak at, at that level too,

Josh Elmore 13:50

I'll pull in, uh, Joe Austin in a second. But just, uh, before we do that, what do you hope to achieve with your visible expertise?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 13:57

The larger goal is to help continue to, to grow hinge and, and be visible in the marketplace and, and promote our organization.

Josh Elmore 14:05

what's coming up for you, Joe and Austin right, because, uh, we talked about this idea of we're, we're, we're doing, thought partnership on each of your goals, but we're also looping in each other to kind of, have view of context right. From our colleagues. I know that you're all from different areas inside Hinge. What's your view on what Mary Blanc has shared so far?

Joe Pope 14:23

we recently had the 2026 high growth study come out and the number two marketing priority in 2026 for high growth organizations is developing thought leaders. 27% Of high growth organizations referenced it as something, it, it fell just behind social media marketing, uh, and being effective with that as, as a top priority. It works, frankly. And obviously Hinge has made a lot of investment into this as well. We've written two books about it. The title of our original podcast that came out a few years back was the Visible Expert Podcast. So, we're strong believers in how valuable this could be, especially for folks, uh, as they continue to drive their careers forward.

Austin McNair 15:00

the thought that, that came to my mind and Josh, I would love to hear your thoughts about this in terms of, your work with, leaders that are kind of maybe excelling to like the C-suite for the first time, like I remember when we did our. Visible expert research, and I have now kind of existentially felt it myself. I'm curious what Mary Blanche thinks, but this whole idea of imposter syndrome, it's like when you start to kind of punch up towards more visibility and you start to pitch yourself to be on a stage speaking, I know that a lot of the visible experts that we've spoken to, and again, like I've started kind of thinking about this in terms of like just can't get around that inner voice. Sometimes that's like, oh, but there's probably so many other people out there that are smarter than you that could be talking about this as well.

Josh Elmore 15:48

imposter syndrome's an interesting one. You know, there's not a lot of like research around it, there is, but it's also kind of an amorphous construct where we're, where you think about, where does it come from, and how does it, you know, manifest and in what circumstances still kind of in early days in terms of what the research says about it. But there's, the validity in people's experiences is not unreal. It's, it, it exists, right? So this idea of, as you ascend, as you get more opportunity, as you, get more responsibility, more visibility to your point, there's this feeling that you are, maybe unworthy of it or, that you are not, equipped fully to speak on behalf of, of the expertise that maybe, people are, assigning you. and, the interesting thing about, learning, and maybe Mary Blanc, you can speak to this, right? Doing an MBA, is the more that you learn, the more that you, the more that you see you, you don't know, right? So you start to uncover your ignorance.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 16:48

Yep.

Josh Elmore 16:49

And so imposter syndrome is really interesting because, it kind of speaks to this humility that we get when we learn. Sometimes it can be threatening to our, our, our our sense of identity or our sense of self. and all these things are kind of mixed up in this idea of, imposter syndrome, I would say. because it's, complex and it's multifaceted. It comes from different sources. so all that being said, what's your experience of it? Mary Blanche Lynch?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 17:15

Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting what you just said about, you know, um, higher education and, even recently, um, I took a, a marketing course and obviously I, you know, own a, a marketing company and, uh, taking that course, there were several things even in that, class where I was just like, oh man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna crush. This is easy. I, I own a marketing company, but just the, these, some of these aha moments that I had and how I just, that really made me think and, and you know, how I can apply that back to, to the organization. So I think it, has definitely given me some of that additional. confidence, but also additional, uh, curiosity to, uh, kind of continue that journey.

Josh Elmore 17:50

Yeah. And I think, um, taking that learning mindset, that openness and being willing to change your mind is super powerful. It's such a, a, a, a critical leadership trait where, you know, if you think you know the answer, you will be, Let down when things start to fall apart because you're not leveraging the people around you. The best leaders that I talk to are the ones that aren't necessarily subject matter experts. They are experts in leveraging the experts around them. because that's what it means to, to manage, right? You're not doing the content of the work. You are, uh, coordinating the effort of others. and, so you, it takes a lot of, uh, humility to do that work. what would you like to do to ensure, um, it sounds like you're already getting speaking gigs, you're, you're keeping the visible expertise going. What do you specifically hope to, that you think is gonna fall through the cracks that you're like, okay, this resolution may break down because of x, um, that we can.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 18:44

We kind of talked in the beginning about, you know, wearing a bunch of different hats, right? I think my concern would be something might fall off because, you know, you're wearing so many hats all the time, but I think, intentionality is a word I keep coming back to, and I, how can I just continue to be intentional throughout the year, with this specific goal of mine. And so I think that's gonna require, you know, really just like I have to do for my MBA, which is a challenge in Excel in itself, you know, when time, there are only so many hours in the day, like, how do you make time for, those kind of goals? And, you know, I've had to, rework the construct of how day in and day out I'm able to do that. And I, I look at this no differently as, you know, how can I, look at how this week pans out and how can I be intentional about, you know, making sure I'm dedicating the time to this goal that I've, that I've set out to achieve.

Josh Elmore 19:27

Okay. So being intentional, and it sounds like you, you have that practice down. and what's one next step you'll pursue to ensure that you're kind of keeping on with the, resolution? Yeah.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 19:39

Yeah, I think so. From when we do that speaking engagement in March, um, you know, we're gonna video it on all those things and I really wanna be able to use that, but to package that to, um, pitch to some other events and, and conferences. So, um, that's kind of the long range next step. And then I think, um, in, in the shorter term, you know, we're all starting to, you know, be guests on other podcasts, do guest articles with other organizations. Uh, so just continuing to drive that forward. Great.

Josh Elmore 20:07

snowball effect.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 20:08

Yeah, that's right.

Josh Elmore 20:10

Um, and then your 10 K, right?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 20:11

It's okay.

Josh Elmore 20:13

you have this goal of running in the Monument 10 K in Virginia, right? Uh, and so anything from our, previous, uh, conversation striking you as applicable to, kind of holding onto that goal? And, and maybe you can share a little bit of what you've tried and, and what might be getting in the way.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 20:32

Yeah, I think, um, intentionality still resonates here. I think, um, when I started my MBA, um, I've always been someone who like gets up super early, works out before my kids wake up, and then I'm, you know, ready to receive them when they wake up for, for the day. Um, and I found that one of the things that really had to drop off was a lot of times I was finding that was the only time I had, potentially in a day with, you know, after school activities and stuff to study in the morning. so. It ebbs and flows, depending on what the course is. But, um, as where I've always been able to be consistent in that working out piece, that kind of fell off. So I think, I just have kind of looked at, okay, if I'm gonna like, reengage myself to be intentional and I, I didn't wanna make it, I'm gonna work out five times a week, I'm gonna, you know, I, I wanted to have a, a more like, holistic goal of like, I, you know, I'm capable of running, a 10 K. So, um, I felt like that was a better way to frame it in my mind, uh, to make it achievable. So it's less about, how many times do I get down there at 5:00 AM but more about, you know, how can I create that, that drive and that endurance to, you know, get myself across, the finish line.

Josh Elmore 21:34

it goes back to this idea you were talking about with mini hatted ness. You're wearing many hats, right? So, I'll share, something that I, I share with, with everyone I, I talk to that has, a busy life, and, is trying to achieve many things simultaneously and just kind of keep, keep things on the rails, right? and stay healthy is the first thing to take into consideration is that, you're obviously successful, right? So you're obviously doing many things well because of your position in life, the, uh, the things that you've achieved so far. So it's always good to look back and say like, okay, what have I done? and then also to give yourself a break to know that, there are, uh, many things to, to work on. and also the things that are just required, right? Taking care of your family, working, in the organization, right? The core, things. and as you give yourself a break, and look back and, and recognize your accomplishments so far, you can, use that as your insight into where are those moments that that I can integrate And as you said, right, there's a conflict between studying and running, um, which is hard. So you can't do everything. And so I think just give yourself grace to know that you can't do everything in those moments. but in that reflection, and in, thinking about kind of how you're spending your time and allocating it, you might find, um, those opportunities, for, additions or integrations. What's one next step you could do around, that preparedness? When is the 10 K?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 23:03

Uh, it's in April, so I've got, yeah, so I've got a, I've got a little bit of time. My, um, soon to be sister-in-law. She's a collegiate, uh, runner in, in college. So I've ac actually enlisted her help to say, Hey, can you kind of just give me a plan? Because I don't think, you know, trying to just you know, hit the treadmill at, you know, six miles right off the bat is probably the best, solution for someone who has, it's been a minute since I've, um, you know, been intentional about, um, upping my running game. So she's actually making me a, a plan so I can kind of, uh, work my way, uh, into it. And then I'm, I really see it as a, you know, rather than every morning like we were talking about, like if I have that plan, then I'll fit it in where I can fit it in.

Josh Elmore 23:44

And I mean, I think that's one of the best things you can do for yourself is find support. Right. So. All right, sounds good. Mary Blanc, thanks for sharing. I, uh, I hope this was helpful.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 23:55

it was super insightful. I, yeah, I appreciate it. This is, this is good. Feels good to kind of even just say it out loud because then just can be that more, forward focused and, continuing on the journey.

Josh Elmore 24:06

good. Alright, so who's next?

Austin McNair 24:08

I think I'm next looking at the list here, and. think there's gonna be some, maybe some good crossover here between, some of the stuff you, you touched on with Mary Blanche and one of mine, so Josh, for, for my professional one. so I currently find myself in kind of an exciting career transition and, and juncture where, um, I think probably like many of our listeners out there, who are marketing managers, senior managers, and maybe going up into that director level position. My, my resolution is the following. To spend less time doing technical marketing work and to spend more time architecting the systems for our team and for our clients. So this is kind of like that mid-career transition, where, I'm not just coming on the team to kind of fulfill and do the work that needs to be done, like right in front, but actually transitioning into more of a leadership role, where my focus and energy really needs to be on improving, progressing the systems. this year we're, we're kind of launching like a whole new product in terms of how we're looking at SEO and you know, bringing in like generative engines and like onboarding some new products for that. Like, that takes time and that takes like a lot of dedicated focus. And the transition I'm making right now is one where I really need to, Build my work routine around delegating more and so that I can actually carve out room for the time for these important tasks that I'm taking on as more of a leader. and one exciting transition as well is that our team is growing, our marketing team is growing, and, I have the opportunity now to actually, bring on, uh, a team member and even work with some existing team members on some of these roles and duties that I've traditionally been responsible for. I'll be honest and say that, I have had this resolution for about a year now and have, I don't think I've been, as. good at letting things go and delegating work as maybe I, I could have been. That's my professional one. My personal one is a lot less wordy. It's very simple. Less screen time, especially in the house, like less time on my phone, less time on on social media applications, like just more time alive in space. Spending time with my family, spending time with my kids, spending time outdoors, less time on the screen.

Josh Elmore 26:34

Very good. And, so congrats on right. getting, uh, more responsibility and, and ascending in the organization. always, a, catalyst for change for, for yourself. but it's also, a challenge because, if you haven't done it before, then how do you do it? and it sounds like, um, it's been a year. I, my first question is, is, so you have, you're hiring on some resources for delegating. Do you have that backfill? to what extent can you delegate this past year? You said it's been hard. have you had the ability, have you had, the resources, allocated to you for effectively delegating.

Austin McNair 27:11

Uh, yes and no. I think in some projects and circumstances I've had some availability to work with other internal team members to hand over. Like for example, we just launched this big high-growth study, that we're, we're promoting right now. everybody make sure you go download to high-growth study, high-growth study.com/hds, get the report. gotta always promote that. and this year I did have someone shadowing me in terms of how we project manage that project to, promote the survey I should say, to, project manage through the development of the different research reports. as I've looked back. On, that era of like having someone shadow me through that project. I don't think I let go of the reins enough in terms of like that transition from like, okay, you're shadowing me to, no, nevermind. It's just easier if I still do it. I'm not sure that I clearly made that, uh, like let go of the reins and empowered the person to the degree that I could have.

Josh Elmore 28:01

Yeah. And so, uh, right. That learning in and of itself is, is powerful, right? Because there's no way to know until you do and then see and say, okay, well, I'm gonna do it differently. so, you got this, this project, uh, you had res uh, a resource to delegate to for that project. you didn't delegate enough. What would you have done differently?

Austin McNair 28:20

set clear expectations for myself and for the team I was working with Like in a more of a definitive s sense, say, this is what I'm gonna do and not do this year, and this is what I'm handing off for you to do. whereas I think things were left a little bit more open-ended and a little bit more fuz. Those, those lines, those barriers and those lines were a little bit more fuzzy.

Josh Elmore 28:42

So roles and responsibilities, uh, kind of being more, um, formal in that way. yeah. Yeah. And Joe Mary Blanche, do you have any insight into, um, Austin's, uh, recent, uh, opportunity to have a, a resource to him for, um, uh, for delegating how he did that? Did you see anything around that?

Joe Pope 29:03

Yeah, I mean, uh, both myself and Mary Blanche sitting in the partner seat have been, uh, looking for more and more opportunities to help not only hinge grow, but also Austin as a professional. I mean, as everybody who's listened to. Followed this podcast for quite some time. Knows while there, there are three co-host here, Austin, a lot of times takes on a lot of the lift in terms of being a voice for this podcast, as well as some of the preparations and things that go for it making, uh, mb and I look better, if you will. Uh, so the, like, the hard work and all those pieces have been done and in the circumstances like, okay, well how do we all benefit? Right? Because we've talked about the idea of experts being successful, that that was a big talking point just a few minutes ago with Mary Blanche, and Austin's clearly an expert in this type of space and that can benefit the organization itself. So but I think the big thing there was a big theme that we talked about already in this episode is time. So Hinge is a small business, right? And we are all working really hard and we're all wearing all these different hats. and, and so it sometimes can be very challenging, especially when, um. While a leader at our organization, not necessarily Austin's, not necessarily able to make unilateral types decisions or things along those lines. So we get stuck behind a me sometimes, but not being able to respond fast enough or help drive through these different initiatives. Uh, so I, I can see and hear kind of in between the lines about why, you know, this was something that Austin mentioned a year plus ago. And while we are moving that way, it can probably seem a little bit painstaking at points, to bring about the change.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 30:35

And it's also part of the reason, you know, we, we are, Austin was talking about, you know, expanding our, our marketing team in general. And so that, you know, that is an investment that we're wanting to make this year to be able to give Austin, you know, the autonomy to be able to, take that next step. Uh, there's a lot of, uh, value that, you know, that he brings to our organization. And so being able to add to our digital marketing team is only gonna allow us to expand on those efforts from there.

Josh Elmore 31:00

being managing partners, um, Joe, you're a managing partner it sounds like. Um, okay, great. I'm still learning about the organization. So helpful. Mary Blanc, you're a managing partner, right? Yeah. And so, being kind of leaders in the organization who ha have experience delegating in Hinge, what advice would you share with Austin about kind of how, how he could do this differently this year?

Joe Pope 31:23

I think that there's an old adage that I think a lot of professionals that have been successful, especially in the entrepreneurial type mindset, have listened to, which is to, sometimes you need to ask for forgiveness and not permission. Uh, you know, of course that can be challenging because. If you stick your neck out there and you really screw up, then asking for forgiveness doesn't necessarily make things better. Uh, and and it can cost you large, but also playing it safe all the time never works, right? Because at that point then you're completely at the best of other people to be able to push forward what your initiatives are and things along those lines. but I think Hinge as an organization has a culture of forgiveness when people have their best intentions for the organization and themselves, and why being successful, what could be successful.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 32:09

For me, I would say, um, and it's a little bit more of a, a tactical response, but as al as someone who also has, uh, struggled with, uh, being able to delegate over my career and, and kind of figuring out how to overcome that, I really sat with myself to think, okay, like let me write out all the things that I do in a given week and how many of these things actually have to be me and how many of these things either could someone else do or could I train someone else to do? so when you can kind of like look at your role holistically and, and think, you know, what only I can do versus someone else, um, I think that's a worthwhile, always a worthwhile exercise.

Josh Elmore 32:46

So we got two things, right? So, uh, Joe on ownership, right? Taking, ownership of, of, you know, things may not go the right way, but I'm just gonna, I'm gonna pursue this anyways. And, and, you know, um. You delegate it down and Mary Blanche on the idea of accounting for all the things that you're responsible for, but also, uh, in doing so, uh, identifying those things that are kind of like, I could push this off my plate. Uh, Austin thoughts.

Austin McNair 33:11

Oh yeah. I mean, I love both sides of that. I think that exercise you, you mentioned Mary Blanche about accounting for like, the things that could, that it's like, hey, when this person starts day one, this is immediately the stuff that moves straight to this person. I think that, and I, I think that could be client work I'm doing. I think that could be hinge work that I'm doing. So I actually really, I think that's kind of like my big nugget and takeaway and that way

Josh Elmore 33:33

And on your personal, one, you have this idea of less screen time, and I think, you know, uh, reflecting on the fact that we're gonna be doing personal ones, I think a lot of my, advice, we'll start with being kind to yourself, as I mentioned with Mary Blanche, right? Because, um, the thing is, is, is, uh, work takes a lot of effort, and that's kind of where we're focusing here on the podcast. And in the personal domain, it's also nice to be flexible because that's the place where you can be more flexible, where you have kind of the ability to give yourself a break, at work you have to perform. You have to kind of help the organization succeed. That's kind of a, a given and, and in life, it doesn't always have to be about performance. It can be about leisure and, and enjoyment and, and those things. yours is in screen time. That's you, you're seeking more kind of interpersonal enjoyment. Is that right?

Austin McNair 34:21

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes, have you ever had that moment where you kind of like have that out outof body experience where maybe you've been on your phone for a few minutes and you're just like, all right, what am I doing? let's put the phone down and go do something a little bit like more tasteful or, or something more enriching, than, you know, maybe doom scrolling or, or whatever. Um, I just have like really settled into this sense right now that, I want to try to use that leisure time to like pick up a really good book know, that somebody like really spent tons of time crafting and writing and paying attention to every detail and writing a compelling story. Like, I really want to get, like, I want to, uh, uh, uh, be, putting that kind of enriching, like high quality, storytelling and content. Like I want to consume that and, and less like, you know, AI slop and stuff like that. Basically, it's like where I'm approaching this from. And, um, but, and, and I think by, by maybe drawing a firmer line around like, hey, like less screen time, less, less time on my phone, um, the idea would be to replace that with like, some of those things like physical books or even like, like I got new pair of headphones so that I can put my phone down and listen to an audiobook. Um, that way I'm not tempted to like, you know, multitask while I'm listening. You know, with wired headphones, I can, I can step away from the phone, I can go into a different room and like really like dive into to something a little bit more enriching. That's kinda where my head's up.

Josh Elmore 35:47

one of the challenging things about, you know, uh, the modern way of working is it's, it's a lot of cognitive work, right? So you're doing a lot of brain work. And so when you're done with the end of the day and your brain's fried, um, because you did cognitive work all day, sometimes you just want to not have your brain, uh, be, uh, taxed anymore. so it sounds like you have the, the, some, some thoughts, some insights on how you might do it, um, or, uh, you know, pursue alternatives. what is getting in the way of, of doing that?

Austin McNair 36:17

actually I think it's funny'cause when, when it came outta my mouth a few minutes ago, I was like, oh, this relates to the personal one as well. I think comes down to like, can I draw a clear line of like, what's the decision? Like don't leave it fuzzy. like for dinner time with my family, I'm leaving my phone in a totally different room. I don't even want to be in the same room as it. and by drawing like kind of that, you know, that highlighter line, like, and saying, this is what I do now during this time, it's really helped me like kind of fulfill like the goal that I want so that I can be present with my family for dinner, not be distracted by, you know, any kind of notifications or emails that come up. And I found that very successful. So I, I think kind of just like copying and pasting that template of like, um, something that has been successful and applying it is, is sort of where my head's at.

Josh Elmore 37:04

Very good. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you have, um, a technique and um, and something that's, uh, kind of interrelated to the way that you've been doing or the, the kind of, uh, future pursuit. Right. Uh, no blurry lines. Uh,

Austin McNair 37:17

that's right. Yeah. I, I think that's actually, uh, really, I'm, I'm gonna, I might write that down somewhere, just like no blur, no blurry lines.

Josh Elmore 37:24

And that helps with delegation too, right? The more you can be clear for the folks that you're kind of giving instruction to or, right. So Joe's like Joe Joe's like do do whatever you need to do to get something done. and that's like kind of ultimate, uh, delegation, right? Owner, full ownership. and if you know something, you've routinized something and you're delegating that kind of routinized thing, you're also maybe giving people, uh, that's the training piece and the guidance, um, that they need. And then, and then you can start to hand off ownership. So it would be curious to know Mary Blanche, Joe, like it sounds like you did some good training, for Austin when he first came on, and then it got to a point where it's like, you don't need guardrails anymore. Go out and do, very good. Well, so I think we got, uh, Joe, last but not least.

Joe Pope 38:04

There is gonna be some similarity with my resolution. you've heard me talk about just jumping in and doing things and, and, uh, asking for forgiveness later. Well, I've made a career on that. and I actually think I do it to a detriment. Uh, and, and it, and the big reason is that I find myself getting involved in too many things and, uh, then having to become what you might consider a chief fixer. so I, I do oversee business development here at Hinge. Uh, and, and that touches a lot of different areas, both on prospect side as well as existing client side. And if I hear something is going sideways, I, I usually will slide my chair over and say, okay, so what's going on? Or thing along those lines. And the next thing you know, I am up at 11 o'clock at night or later helping to try to rescue this and make it absolutely perfect. and we had an opportunity a few weeks back where a, um, an RFP was missed, for example, and everybody in professional services loves RFPs, right? we, uh, we had to end up in a spam inbox and we found out about it at the last minute and without even asking the rest of the team who could potentially support it, I was like, cool. That's my Sunday now. And, uh, from six o'clock to midnight, I basically cranked at an RFP and we made the shortlist so good for us. but still, like that is not a sustainable approach. And I need to help organizationally, wide people develop their own confidence to be able to solve their challenges and navigate them as a team and not rely on Joe.

Josh Elmore 39:43

Hmm.

Joe Pope 39:44

On the personal side, I wanna touch more grass in 2026 than I did in 2025, because this seat that I'm sitting in right now that I just referenced, I spent that six hour block on a Sunday. I am really sick of this seat. Luckily for me, I have a standing desk now. Uh, so at least I'm not sitting all the time, which has definitely helped the old watch cardiovascular tell me that I'm doing better. But, I wanna be outside. I love outside. I love sports. I love playing sports. I love doing outdoor activities. I don't like hiking. It's kind of boring. But if, if there's a goal at the end of the hike, like do I end up at a brewery or something, then cool. But yeah, I just want to not be behind this desk for 50 to 60 hours in a week. It's just not beneficial to my mental health. So those are, two right there. Josh, I, I wouldn't be, I'd be surprised if you haven't heard some of this before, uh, from other folks that you've provided coaching to.

Josh Elmore 40:39

You know, uh, thanks for sharing, Joe. it's similar to where Austin is, is this idea of handing off, right? and being able to, the, the, I think the challenge is you, you know. You spent Sunday working on A RFP and you made the short list. So you're being reinforced to do this work because it's successful, but it's not sustainable.

Joe Pope 41:01

No.

Josh Elmore 41:02

I also see it as a, a version of protecting your people. so if you're in a leadership role, but taking on more responsibility so as to, not burn out others, right? It's a Sunday, who are you gonna email and say, work on the weekend, right? I mean, that would not be a great leadership practice to do, because other folks are, are not gonna appreciate having to work on the weekend. So you take it on yourself. and so it sounds like there's, mechanisms that are reinforcing, the behavior. and so I'd ask, what is it, uh, in the organization, the context that, is and historically has led you to, um, kind of show up in this way?

Joe Pope 41:43

Yeah, so it's, it's a great way of asking that question, Josh. I mean, realistically, this role that I sit in at Hinge, I'm the only person who's ever had it.

Josh Elmore 41:51

Hmm.

Joe Pope 41:51

prior to my hiring, it was a very much seller. Doer, which you see across professional services. and Hinge brought me on to be not billable, honestly. Now I do, I do billable work. I run, I run into folks every once in a while, but the majority of what I do is help our organization grow revenue and hopefully profitability alongside that revenue. prior to that, we didn't really have that kind of construct. And while we marketed ourselves really well, because we're a marketing agency and we practice what we preach, uh, which is amazing how many agencies don't do that, by the way. but for us, we certainly do. And, being able to then transition that into revenue though was something that Hinge needed to work on. And we, we, in a sense, I did that. So now it's how do you use this team and this construct one, but two, trust myself enough to let it go. I guess because I don't wanna let it go because I know if I do let it go, it could go south. And then I've got a team of 20 plus folks who rely on this company to be successful. And I don't wanna leave them hurting in any form or fashion.

Josh Elmore 42:57

one thing that you said there that is, uh, resonating with me is this idea of in professional services everyone's billable. Right. So from being billable comes prestige or comes, um, the, core, contribution that you can make to the organization. And so not being billable might also, and you can, you can dispute this, but I'm, it's a hypothesis. It might also, um, be influencing you to go above and beyond because of the missing link between, contribution and, real time, revenue generation.

Joe Pope 43:32

Sure. Yeah. I, I, I'm not gonna dispute it. I think that in a circumstance where you can't necessarily point to how your efforts are being directly receiving of money that it adds, uh, at least in professional services, then it adds to the pressure to really prove your worth. Uh, at least that I think there's a personal feel that I have that I have to constantly, and this, this goes back long before Hinge, but I'm constantly having to prove myself on an ongoing basis to others. Never was what I would call myself great at anything. I'm, I'm the guy who's good at a ton of stuff, but great at none. and that, I have a chip on my shoulder. Right? So, and I put it there myself, which is probably the sad thing,

Josh Elmore 44:17

hmm. Yeah. I mean, you know, uh, and so being in that role can be challenging. And so I'll throw it to Mary Blanc and Austin, where, what's your perspective on Joe's contribution?

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 44:29

Joe is the, the main person that people go to from the BD aspect, you know, that is his, his expertise. And so, you know, when something does go sideways, you know, they, they want his, his input on that, about how to, you know, right. The, the ship in a sense. but I also think that. To an extent, there are things that are teachable to the larger, organization people that are also in, um, at least a subset of a business development role, at least within growing their own, um, their own book of business, right? so I, I think it's more like a training opportunity, for our organization, to be able to reduce the amount of times that it has to be, Joe that they need for the input. Or if it is in fact that Joe is the only one at the end of the day that can provide that, expertise that gets it across the finish line, that it's in the best possible spot that it can be by the time it gets there.

Austin McNair 45:21

I think Joe, about some of the initiatives that we've talked about doing, but that we've said, yeah, but we can't right now just because, um, who would do, you know, the x, Y, Z things that I'm already doing. We like, there's just no more Joe time. There's no more Joe that we could get at the moment. So I think there's an opportunity cost.'cause I know, and I think what I heard come out of the conversation so far, which, you know, I think is An excellent leadership quality, right? you have like a, a nurturing and like a care, you know, for the whole organization and specifically for the people of the organization. I think that's one of your leadership strengths. There's an opportunity cost to, things that we could also be doing that we're not doing, uh, because of, you know, how your time could be utilized, maybe inefficiently, uh, and you having to jump in and be the chief fixer on everything. So, however we can support you, and I think maybe Josh has the, hopefully Josh has the magic bullet here for us. Uh,

Joe Pope 46:16

I need it, Josh.

Josh Elmore 46:17

Joe, what are you hearing?

Joe Pope 46:19

I mean, this has been a topic for years. So if you were talking about Josh, when you were doing your run up in the intro, you, you've worked with people that have been in the roles for years or sometimes days. Right. and so I've been doing this job here at Hinge eight plus years, now at, at various levels of responsibility. You know, I became owner partner a couple years ago, as part of my professional growth. Um, and the challenges, like what Mary Blanche has said is true, like sh she and I had, she and I have had this conversation before. And, um, what Austin is saying is also true. Like we, we have things on the table that I could certainly be worked working on if I wasn't like heads down in a proposal and not to. Make fun of that as a career. I've made a career out of being heads down in proposals, but it may not necessarily be the best use of my time. And certainly it wasn't the best use of my Sunday afternoon. But, you know, things sometimes go sideways and sometimes you just gotta go above and beyond. Right. But limiting that in creating systems to help improve that is, is definitely key. I, those are some of the things I've, I'm, I'm hearing just from the three of you and reflecting off of how I've talked about it,

Josh Elmore 47:32

you know, another thing to keep in mind is that there's different versions of success or, um, proving yourself to others. So, you can prove yourself through execution, but you can also prove yourself through leadership. Right. and so, you know, being a leader in the organization, talking about this idea of training others, delegating, doing that successfully is also, a way to illustrate, your skill sets and, and, and your, your wisdom and, and you know, if, if that's kind of a driving factor, right? Being, being able to kind of, um, uh, achieve then I'll ask the same question that I asked Austin. To what extent do you have resources to delegate to, right? It sounds like Mary Blanc just talking about training are, is that available?

Joe Pope 48:14

I, I think, and this is where my advice to Austin makes perfect sense, which is like, for example, this podcast was a huge initiative that we got off the ground because we just pushed it forward. damn the torpedoes, right? Where we're going full steam ahead here. And we were able to get it off the ground and now it's one of our primary marketing tactics that we measure and see success for and things along those lines. A little bit of taking my own advice, right? Because these resources can be made available. we just have to figure out how that looks and then we need to be accountable to it. And that's the big thing, right? Like if you, if you're gonna stick your neck out to do something, we all knew that this podcast could be successful. And we have plenty of metrics now after 20 plus episodes that prove how we've been successful. That's great.'cause I need to be able to then turn to the other owners and partners and also just staff at this company and say, this is why we're spending all this time on this effort. I have to be able to prove that same type of concept though when I talk about another resource, for example, underneath me, or the time spent training, and then the measuring of those different effectivenesses uh, pieces. And I think I'm, I'm getting a little stuck up on being able to make sure. Well, I'm, I'm, I'd be, I'd be letting go of my baby in a sense, which is being this fixer role and it's, I think there's probably a bit more personal to it, versus this podcast where it was like, ah, no, this is gonna work. Right? I love talking. So does Austen. It won't make Mary Blanche talk like she said. So like that, there was a little less emotion, I think tied when, you know, you push, push this type of initiative, a podcast forward versus, okay, this is what I've, this is why I'm here at Hinge and now I'm gonna be pulling back a little bit from that. It is a bit scary in a

Josh Elmore 49:54

hmm. I hear this idea in there around, not having the, you know, it's not about not having resources, but it's about, your identity in the organization. and, I guess the question would be is if you could think beyond where you're at right now and a year from now, and you did hold onto this kind of, uh, getting rid of the chief fixer, what would your role look like a year from now?

Joe Pope 50:19

Yeah, I mean, we are, we're hiring and building out Austin's team. I mean, we could certainly be talking about hiring and building out the larger business development and resourcing structure. Um, I mean, the reality is, like Mary Blanche, there's a role in, creating visibility and expertise of myself in the form of, speaking and writing and contributing, at that level as well. and then there is the holy grail of all things agency, which is to be able to gain revenues from referral partners and networks and systems where you're not having to spend significant dollar for dollar or effort in growth. So, like I shouted out our organization, we've been hyper successful in creating a marketing system that brings visibility to our organization, and that's great, but we have to mine all that ourselves. We have to convert all of that ourselves. We have to convince all these folks that they're, we are the experts we are, and then sell them and move them forward. There's a whole lot of effort that goes into that. Uh, and being able to, um, diversify how we are gaining revenues in the forms of partnerships and referral sources and things along those lines is an area that I think our organization could grow, especially with how impactful these, softwares and technologies are in the marketing ecosystem.

Josh Elmore 51:38

And so earlier I heard this idea of not necessarily having a justification for, allocating resources to the things that you're doing in the sense that, um, you'd have to show the, the rationale for why you would need those. You just laid out a, a different, a, a rationale.

Joe Pope 51:55

Yeah,

Josh Elmore 51:56

Right. so, given kind of what we talked about, you know, being mindful of time, what's one next step you can take as it relates to, uh, this uh, uh, resolution?

Joe Pope 52:07

I think it's leaning on. My team, probably, honestly, the two people on this call, uh, to call, I just called this a call. That's so funny. but I, I would say leaning on, uh, leaning on Mary Blanche and Austin, who, as we've talked about many times in this podcast, play a role within our organization itself that divide up the marketing and operational side of this, which together with the business development really, That's the holy trifecta of how the agency itself runs to leaning on them to help me overcome that fear piece, because I think that's really what it is. I, you know, it's, it's, I can speak the rationale behind it. I know why it makes sense. I can even plot out what it would look like, but I still gotta jump out of the airplane with the parachute, right? And having accountability buddies, I, I think, is really probably the first step I could do is making sure that I, I'm being held accountable

Josh Elmore 53:02

thoughts from your colleagues?

Austin McNair 53:04

if I were to, to think forward to a year from now and see you kind of operating in a more successful way, I think it would be in like more coaching, like more internal coaching. And I think that, like if I think about what would I wanna hold Joe accountable to based off this conversation, it would be in that direction. Like, Joe, how have the, like coaching calls been with like, some of our team members, in terms of like helping people independently take on a little bit more. Mary Blanche.

Mary-Blanche Kraemer 53:31

I would, I think, piggyback on that,'cause I think Joe does an excellent job at coaching. I think that's a really good call out. I would challenge him, I think to, coaching where there doesn't become like a, a dependency or a reliability on, on Joe. So coaching, uh, with an eye towards, you know, the birds out of the nest and, and flying.

Josh Elmore 53:53

And, uh, Joe, finally, right? You have your personal one, it and it's interrelated touching grass. it sounds like it's, it's part of the idea of, you know, not doing an RFP on a Sunday. do you hear anything from kind of your maybe forward looking, uh, professional role that might help you achieve your personal?

Joe Pope 54:13

Yeah, it's, it's absolutely creating the time. Right. When I have time. I've never had a challenge in getting myself outside. we're busy professionals all with families and obligations and things along those lines. And in order to free up that time, you know, we, we've got to, uh, hold fast on some of these personal resolutions, uh, and still be able to point to how they're being success, how we're being successful in that manner. I think probably scheduling in some of this outdoor time, if you will, a bit more than I have, is a great first step, if you know you've got something coming up, you need to make sure that you're doing the things in order to make sure you get to it. Like, so Mary Blanc is running Monument 10 K in in April. Like that's a date, right? Like that, you have to be able to hit that date. but you know, scheduling, you know, I like playing golf for example, or I like, brewing beer. I like doing all these types of things that get me outdoors and um, you know, just putting them on the schedule is probably something to help.

Josh Elmore 55:21

we can go back to Mary Blanc's word too as well to intentionality.

Joe Pope 55:25

Hmm.

Josh Elmore 55:26

Right. So it sounds like there's a lot of intentionality for the year ahead and I hope, this was helpful in you thinking about kind of the ways in which you would be intentional.

Austin McNair 55:35

Josh, um, before we let you go, I want to give you the chance to let people know how they can find you. Where can they learn more about what you do? Any last words for kind of the listeners out there who may be, going into this new year, they're thinking forward to their, uh, professional goals, their ambitions for their organizations, and how they want to be good leaders. I don't know. What, what word of advice might you, for our, our listeners, and then how can, how could people get in touch with you?

Josh Elmore 56:03

well, thanks for having me. You know, I mean, this has been great. I, I hope I was helpful. Um, and you know, for anybody listening that's thinking about what they're trying to achieve in the year ahead, I think looking back at the way that we just kind of, Around, the drivers, and the, uh, roadblocks that might inhibit our ability to do something or, um, the things that can accelerate our ability to do something. Where are there synergies, right? We just pointed to the ways in which, personal and professional, uh, resolutions can interrelate and reinforce one another, or, be challenging. and so I, I'd say take that systems perspective. Look at the kind of the full picture, and don't discount, that you're probably already doing, a lot. for yourself. so, given the fact that there's only so much you can do, prioritize, prioritize the things that that truly matter to you. and, check in, once you do that, kind of keep, checking in with yourself and find somebody to talk to about it as well, right? I don't necessarily do, uh, too much kind of, career coaching but I do do, uh, advisory, um, where it's more subject matter expertise, along with executive coaching, with leaders who are starting new roles, who are coming into high stakes, profit and loss, positions, you know, running business units, heading up, uh, full organization systems, that want to think. Deeply with their team. with, an outsider who can give them perspective, ask them questions to, get them, thinking around, uh, the contextual factors, so if you're starting a new role, uh, in an organization and you, uh, need that, that thought, partner, happy to chat. You can reach me at, uh, my website is court street consulting.net. I'm also on LinkedIn, Dr. Josh Elmore, and you can listen to the Land and Lead Podcast on all the regular outlets that you would find them. So

Austin McNair 57:56

Yeah, absolutely. I, I highly recommend our listeners go and, find Josh on LinkedIn. he's got a huge following there, and he pub publishes, a great newsletter, shares, clips from his podcast. If you're interested in all things leadership and what's some of the highest performing leaders out there are doing in their positions, definitely go out and check out Josh's stuff. well. Dr. Josh, thank you so much. This was, uh, what an episode. Uh, I, I don't know what we all expected going into this, but I'm walking away from it with a lot of gratitude. and I, I hope our, our listeners found it, uh, insightful and, and, and engaging. And, uh, you learned more about Joe, Mary Blanche, myself. But hopefully you're also walking away with, uh, something and some clarity for the new year for for yourself as well. thanks for everyone for watching listening. Make sure you like and subscribe. If you're watching on YouTube, leave us a review. And of course, if you have any questions about the podcast, suggestions, feedback, you can always get in touch with us at podcast@hingemarketing.com. Thank you everyone. This, uh, wraps up another great episode of of Spiraling Up. We'll see you on the next one.